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How Britain voted – politicalbetting.com

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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,459

    Rwanda you say? Have they not provided a recent example of inter-ethnic violence that isn’t religiously inspired?
    It was 30 years ago.

    As the suspect has an older brother also born in the UK, it is very possible that the parents arrived here fleeing genocide.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,927
    What's going on with all these mini-riots?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,771
    edited July 2024

    Whamala Bamala thank you Kamala?
    It doesn't quite have to rhyme.

    This one worked for Obama as well, but no one used it afaik :smile: .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HhA0Cghr4k
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,690
    DougSeal said:

    This one for a start you utter shit stirring knob -

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4916026/#Comment_4916026

    Having seen your type shaming our country by terrorising some perfectly innocent tourists in Westminster tonight I am in no mood to tolerate your reprehensible disingenuousness on here.

    Yes because as a brown person I'm absolutely going to be out there with the EDL. Are you drunk?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Politico.com - Hungary blocks EU bid for unified statement on Venezuela election

    SSI - Surprise, surprise!

    Interesting though, that the Victor Orban of Tallahassee, Gov. Ron DeSantis has strongly criticized Vincent Maduro for (alleged or rather obvious) election rigging, putting the blame squarely on . . . wait for it . . . Joe Biden.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,355
    Andy_JS said:

    What's going on with all these mini-riots?

    The weather.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,824

    Rwanda you say? Have they not provided a recent example of inter-ethnic violence that isn’t religiously inspired?
    Surely not.
    It's a safe country.
    We've got legislation to prove it.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,471
    kyf_100 said:

    PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
    PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.

    Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.

    That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,716
    Trump appears to have said that it doesn't matter that Vance was a shit choice for veep because the no 2 slot doesn't matter.

  • vinovino Posts: 173
    Omnium said:

    Are there any out and out Trump supporters on PB? I know @HYUFD is at least somewhat supportive, but even the much missed Plato wasn't entirely in his camp.
    I was amused by this post as surely the question should have been "Are there any out and out Reform supporters on PB?"
    The majority of posters here appear to be Rich Remainers: the number of Remainers I know is very small - the vast majority of my family and friends voted Leave.
    Leon's posts are just designed to wind you up and boy do they succeed - I'm in agreement with him most of the time.
    A lot of you appear to be very scared of Reform and I can understand why - there is a good chance they will benefit when Labour WWC voters turn away.
    If Reform starts taking on former Tory Cabinet members then I will never vote for them - with regard to Labour's housing policy a simple "immigrants have to have somewhere to live" works wonders.
    However the site is still excellent for betting tips and I thank all the posters who contributed to my small wins on Election night.
    My car sticker is just in the process of being printed
    "Don't Blame Me - I Voted Reform"
    Hat-tip Labour 1979
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,644

    I know he said, "Religion may be a big factor here, we know Muslim men have got problems with women and infidels etc..." He made a sweeping, negative statement about a large group of people. What do you want to call that?
    The last event in this country comparable with this - apparently indiscriminate mass murder of children - was motivated by Islam. For pretty much the reason Max says. It's not surprising people might speculate that this is a repeat. We're used to the pattern. We're used to the way these things are reported. We're used to the way "white" is specified if possible.
    Though I doubt anyone had Rwanda on their bingo card.
    I'd add that Islam is a religion, not a race, though this is a little hairsplitty.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 2024
    kyf_100 said:

    PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
    This is a common problem. Virtually the entire professional class of people who run the country are (culturally) middle class and most just don't associate with the tens of millions of those who are not, and increasingly don't relate to/emphasise with them. My work and family connections give me a foot in both camps.

    Its why Brexit was such a shock to them and I made £120 at six to one the day before.

    While the vast majority don't identify with or support football thug types either (quite the opposite), they are as quietly angry about this as the football thugs are noisily angry.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,138
    @ProjectLincoln
    "Today we saw a terribly panicked Trump run off stage at #NABJ. His staff had to pull him after they screwed up again by putting him on stage facing his worst nightmare: women of color. Trump's running scared and now should LaCivita and Wiles. You know Trump's going to be asking around for names after this. And between picking JD Vance - who clearly wasn't vetted, running the entire race against a guy who dropped out, attacking the rights of women, and embracing casual racism, this team couldn't manage a cocktail party." - LP Chief of Staff
    @Ryan_N_Wiggins
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,642
    Pagan2 said:

    Technically not as muslims are not a race
    Okay…I’ll explain this once.

    Discriminating against Muslims is what is called “indirect racial discrimination” because Muslims in this country are majority of a national origin (which counts under race in the relevant legislation) from South Asian countries. Just as “no Catholics” was not very well coded discrimination against Irish people in the past.

    A provision, criteria, or practice that discriminates against Muslims will, statistically, be harder for someone of South Asian decent to overcome and most that employ one know that. So yes, it is racist.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,109
    MaxPB said:

    The first point is a known issue, it's been researched to death and we also have plenty of evidence in this country, I suggest you read Professor Alexis Jay's report on the Rotherham atrocities perpetrated exclusively by Muslim men from Pakistan and Afghanistan. Motivations included placing a lesser value on women and non-Muslims so they didn't believe it was truly immoral to be doing what they were doing.

    On the second point, where does it say I support that view?! Or are you one of those deluded people that thinks something written in PB commenta BTL is actually consequential, I'm not pushing anything or any agenda, just trying to write out what I understand to be the motivations behind the rioting and protesting which might help people to put into context why I think "full force of the law" is the wrong approach to take with these idiots.

    The actions of some Muslim men do not mean that "Muslim men have got problems" with anything. To jump from the actions of some to condemn all is racism or some other form of bigotry.

    You have repeatedly insinuated or just outright claimed that there has been political pressure behind the police's charging decisions in this case, and before that around BBC coverage of other events, etc. You are often pushing conspiracy theories.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,471
    Foxy said:

    It was 30 years ago.

    As the suspect has an older brother also born in the UK, it is very possible that the parents arrived here fleeing genocide.
    The only thing linking the murderer with Islam or ethnic violence in people's minds is the colour of his skin. That is all. There is a word for that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,290
    To judge the horribleness of Trump's NABJ spectacle just now:

    JD Vance is thinking, "Hmm, maybe he is the one dragging down the ticket."

    https://x.com/JamesFallows/status/1818714463786148290

    I thought his interview was a mix of risible and almost pitiful - and old man who’s completely lost it - except this is someone who might still be elected President.
    In that context it’s contemptible.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,642
    MaxPB said:

    Yes because as a brown person I'm absolutely going to be out there with the EDL. Are you drunk?
    No but your fellow travellers on Whitehall clearly are.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,031

    on Cooper
    @joncoopertweets
    MUST WATCH: This clip shows what was probably Trump’s single most unhinged, outrageous, rude and openly racist exchange with a reporter at the National Association of Black Journalists conference. 👀

    https://x.com/joncoopertweets/status/1818726509697175936


    ===

    Be bloody ironic if social media does for him in the end.

    Looking on the bright side, could have been worse - he didn't drop the N bomb.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,204
    DougSeal said:

    Okay…I’ll explain this once.

    Discriminating against Muslims is what is called “indirect racial discrimination” because Muslims in this country are majority of a national origin (which counts under race in the relevant legislation) from South Asian countries. Just as “no Catholics” was not very well coded discrimination against Irish people in the past.

    A provision, criteria, or practice that discriminates against Muslims will, statistically, be harder for someone of South Asian decent to overcome and most that employ one know that. So yes, it is racist.
    Would the same argument not lead to the conclusion that EU free movement is indirect racial discrimination?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,644
    TimS said:

    PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.

    Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.

    That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
    What? No one in your real world is exercised by the murder of a few kids? It's pretty much the subject the real world is most upset about, in my real world.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,932

    Trump appears to have said that it doesn't matter that Vance was a shit choice for veep because the no 2 slot doesn't matter.

    Why is Vance's reputation suddenly in free fall? A few weeks ago he was Golden Boy.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100
    Cookie said:

    The last event in this country comparable with this - apparently indiscriminate mass murder of children - was motivated by Islam. For pretty much the reason Max says. It's not surprising people might speculate that this is a repeat. We're used to the pattern. We're used to the way these things are reported. We're used to the way "white" is specified if possible.
    Though I doubt anyone had Rwanda on their bingo card.
    I'd add that Islam is a religion, not a race, though this is a little hairsplitty.
    Eh? Wasn't the last event comparable to this (indiscriminate mass murder of children) Dunblane?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,773

    on Cooper
    @joncoopertweets
    MUST WATCH: This clip shows what was probably Trump’s single most unhinged, outrageous, rude and openly racist exchange with a reporter at the National Association of Black Journalists conference. 👀

    https://x.com/joncoopertweets/status/1818726509697175936


    ===

    Be bloody ironic if social media does for him in the end.

    I linked to that down thread. I really think Trump is losing the plot and simply doesn't know how to get at Harris in the way that he has got at most of his opponents over the last 10 years. He hasn't even got a half decent nickname or catch phrase for her. He looks a bit bewildered how the race has changed.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Trump appears to have said that it doesn't matter that Vance was a shit choice for veep because the no 2 slot doesn't matter.

    Strange, VP seemed to REALLY matter, to Trump AND the rest of the USA, when Mike Pence refused to violate his oath of office to uphold the Constitution?
  • AnthonyTAnthonyT Posts: 141
    Ratters said:

    If I say that the killer of young girls was a man (or boy) and this shows the problem with men, people would reasonably object to being grouped with such an individual and call it misandry.

    Yet some of the same people are demanding to know if said man was also Muslim or some other group that they dislike, to see if it helps to prove some point about Muslims. To them, if it ends up being a Muslim, that would prove them right and show Muslims to be a problem. It's relevant in a way the suspect's male sex is not.
    It is not misandry to point out that sex is the single biggest predictor of whether someone commits a crime. Not all men are criminals obviously but the vast majority of criminals are men.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,505

    No, that’s not what I’m saying. The point is that religion isn’t the only faultline that can lead to conflict or motivate violence.
    Serbia Ultra Nationalism is on the Prevent list IIRC. There is a weird and nasty sub culture of venerating Arkan - complete with icon like iconography…
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,471
    vino said:

    I was amused by this post as surely the question should have been "Are there any out and out Reform supporters on PB?"
    The majority of posters here appear to be Rich Remainers: the number of Remainers I know is very small - the vast majority of my family and friends voted Leave.
    Leon's posts are just designed to wind you up and boy do they succeed - I'm in agreement with him most of the time.
    A lot of you appear to be very scared of Reform and I can understand why - there is a good chance they will benefit when Labour WWC voters turn away.
    If Reform starts taking on former Tory Cabinet members then I will never vote for them - with regard to Labour's housing policy a simple "immigrants have to have somewhere to live" works wonders.
    However the site is still excellent for betting tips and I thank all the posters who contributed to my small wins on Election night.
    My car sticker is just in the process of being printed
    "Don't Blame Me - I Voted Reform"
    Hat-tip Labour 1979
    There are several Reform supporters on here. 5 or 6.
    I would say that since the election, now the centre-left has cast the Tories into temporary oblivion, the numbers remaining have changed and a larger proportion of active posters are the Brexiteers, Reform or Tory supporters and MAGA-curious. I certainly post here less since the election.

    It's still middle class, of course. But notably more rightward leaning. And even more male. Pretty much 100% male.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,716
    DavidL said:

    I linked to that down thread. I really think Trump is losing the plot and simply doesn't know how to get at Harris in the way that he has got at most of his opponents over the last 10 years. He hasn't even got a half decent nickname or catch phrase for her. He looks a bit bewildered how the race has changed.
    Hyena Harris might work because of the laugh thing.

    Has he tried that?

    I will die laughing if she takes him down in this contest. His very very bigly worse nightmare.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,824

    The actions of some Muslim men do not mean that "Muslim men have got problems" with anything. To jump from the actions of some to condemn all is racism or some other form of bigotry.

    You have repeatedly insinuated or just outright claimed that there has been political pressure behind the police's charging decisions in this case, and before that around BBC coverage of other events, etc. You are often pushing conspiracy theories.
    The Police don't make charging decisions. As for the speed of questioning. Well, it's obviously been delayed by a bunch of patriots chucking bricks at every available officer.
  • I've become quite obsessed by the music of Leon Russell

    I think this might be my favourite music video of all time

    Leon Russell And Friends, the Homewood Sessions

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bwMqliLXZQ

    The big girl with the rolling pin dancing to Honky Tonk Women about halfway through could be the best bit
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,459
    Cookie said:

    What? No one in your real world is exercised by the murder of a few kids? It's pretty much the subject the real world is most upset about, in my real world.
    Here and twitter are the only place that I have heard it discussed.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,690

    The actions of some Muslim men do not mean that "Muslim men have got problems" with anything. To jump from the actions of some to condemn all is racism or some other form of bigotry.

    You have repeatedly insinuated or just outright claimed that there has been political pressure behind the police's charging decisions in this case, and before that around BBC coverage of other events, etc. You are often pushing conspiracy theories.
    You're wrong, it's a known cultural issue and relates to Sharia or religious law which holds the value of women at a fraction of men in the countries where these men (or their fathers) originate from. Denying that it's an issue is what allows scandals like Rotherham to happen for years and get covered up.

    We've had multiple cases of political pressure being applied to the police and the media across many issues, the Rotherham scandal and COVID stick out as two significant ones. Pretending that it doesn't happen is delusional.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,644

    Eh? Wasn't the last event comparable to this (indiscriminate mass murder of children) Dunblane?
    I was thinking of the Manchester bombing in 2017ish.
  • AnthonyTAnthonyT Posts: 141

    Eh? Wasn't the last event comparable to this (indiscriminate mass murder of children) Dunblane?
    The Ariana Grande concert in Manchester in 2017 may be what the poster had in mind. Lots of young children there, many girls.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,771
    edited July 2024
    Carnyx said:

    Thanks; have put that down for the Abebooks list.
    An amazing West Front - as startling as approaching Lincoln Cathedral imo.

    Reading of who is buried there, and thinking about all the Chancellors of Oxford University called Ralph, there's a 11C gent called Ralph the Staller, who sounds like a civil servant.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Why is Vance's reputation suddenly in free fall? A few weeks ago he was Golden Boy.
    Vance got (in his own words) "sucker punched" by his many smart-ass and/or dip-shit past statements readily available to anyone with access to the internet. BUT apparently beyond the ken of Trumpworld in general, and Donald J. Trump, Jr. in particular.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,716

    Why is Vance's reputation suddenly in free fall? A few weeks ago he was Golden Boy.
    He appears to have left a trial of social media self-detonators.

    Plus he has strong views that aint helping the ticket. Those suburban women are loving his 'make rape victims give birth' otherwise they will be childless cat ladies line.

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,109
    Cookie said:

    The last event in this country comparable with this - apparently indiscriminate mass murder of children - was motivated by Islam. For pretty much the reason Max says. It's not surprising people might speculate that this is a repeat. We're used to the pattern. We're used to the way these things are reported. We're used to the way "white" is specified if possible.
    Though I doubt anyone had Rwanda on their bingo card.
    I'd add that Islam is a religion, not a race, though this is a little hairsplitty.
    I'll ignore the hairsplitting.

    You haven't, if I may say so, answered the question. The question was not, "How do we explain these riots?" The question was whether MaxPB's words were racist. You complained at me trotting out "racist". I've given you the reason. Do you accept my reasoning? Do you not consider those words racist?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,642

    Would the same argument not lead to the conclusion that EU free movement is indirect racial discrimination?
    I could answer that but I’ve searched through my wallet and by bag, and I’ll look down the back of the sofa when I’m home, but I’m sorry, I really don’t think I have any fucks left to give.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,138

    Why is Vance's reputation suddenly in free fall? A few weeks ago he was Golden Boy.
    The public and press are vetting him in all the ways the campaign failed to...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,644
    Foxy said:

    Here and twitter are the only place that I have heard it discussed.

    I'm astonished.
    Though I am a parent of children of that age so maybe it resonates more with that demographic.
    I'd have thought anyone with a family would be rather affected though.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    vino said:

    I was amused by this post as surely the question should have been "Are there any out and out Reform supporters on PB?"
    The majority of posters here appear to be Rich Remainers: the number of Remainers I know is very small - the vast majority of my family and friends voted Leave.
    Leon's posts are just designed to wind you up and boy do they succeed - I'm in agreement with him most of the time.
    A lot of you appear to be very scared of Reform and I can understand why - there is a good chance they will benefit when Labour WWC voters turn away.
    If Reform starts taking on former Tory Cabinet members then I will never vote for them - with regard to Labour's housing policy a simple "immigrants have to have somewhere to live" works wonders.
    However the site is still excellent for betting tips and I thank all the posters who contributed to my small wins on Election night.
    My car sticker is just in the process of being printed
    "Don't Blame Me - I Voted Reform"
    Hat-tip Labour 1979
    Oh it's scary all right. Right out of a playbook from the 1930s. For Hitler's "It's all the fault of the Jews" you can read across to the EDL's "it's all the fault of the Muslims". A replay of Goebbel's big lie being used to scapegoat a community. And the EDL are performing the role of Hitler's brownshirts, egged on by your Leader Farage. The only solace available is that their complicity in this outbreak of disgusting thuggery is showing Reform and Farage up for what they truly are.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,716
    Scott_xP said:

    The public and press are vetting him in all the ways the campaign failed to...
    As I said earlier they probably used the same vetting company that Tice and Farage relied on. LOL.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,824

    Serbia Ultra Nationalism is on the Prevent list IIRC. There is a weird and nasty sub culture of venerating Arkan - complete with icon like iconography…
    What does non icon like iconography look like?
    Is that just ography?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347
    DavidL said:

    Yep, 19 years old. Amazing. Over shadowed by Marchand of course but the 100m freestyle is the blue riband.
    The swimming has been great.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,838
    Nigelb said:

    To judge the horribleness of Trump's NABJ spectacle just now:

    JD Vance is thinking, "Hmm, maybe he is the one dragging down the ticket."

    https://x.com/JamesFallows/status/1818714463786148290

    I thought his interview was a mix of risible and almost pitiful - and old man who’s completely lost it - except this is someone who might still be elected President.
    In that context it’s contemptible.

    Incredibly ironic that only about a month after Biden's disastrous debate performance, it's now the Republicans who find themselves confronted by the problem of what to do with a presidential candidate who is obviously not mentally competent.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,690
    Cookie said:

    I'm astonished.
    Though I am a parent of children of that age so maybe it resonates more with that demographic.
    I'd have thought anyone with a family would be rather affected though.
    Yes, our nursery WhatsApp chat is still pretty angry. I think when the death of the third girl was announced it was the first time I've seen so many mild mannered middle class people go ape shit and talk about bringing back hanging etc...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,471
    Foxy said:

    Here and twitter are the only place that I have heard it discussed.

    I suppose people do live in different bubbles. But that applies to race warriors as much as it does to middle class normies.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,716
    Top evening for the Orange One:



    Karen Attiah
    @KarenAttiah
    ·
    1h
    Room is boiling with anger and disappointment right now
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,243
    stjohn said:

    I've just added to my Kamala for POTUS position by backing her at 2.4. THe polls have the race neck and neck and with her VP pick still to come and the Dem convention too, she ought to be able to build further on her "Big Mo". I'm hoping she gets to betting parity with Trump soon and then I might lay back some of my position. Trump does seem to making a lot of unforced errors that may play to his base but not to swing voters.

    I added this morning at 2.52.

    It's shifted quite a bit in just one day. 2.36 now.
  • vinovino Posts: 173
    TimS said:

    There are several Reform supporters on here. 5 or 6.
    I would say that since the election, now the centre-left has cast the Tories into temporary oblivion, the numbers remaining have changed and a larger proportion of active posters are the Brexiteers, Reform or Tory supporters and MAGA-curious. I certainly post here less since the election.

    It's still middle class, of course. But notably more rightward leaning. And even more male. Pretty much 100% male.
    Thanks - I think you may be right -only hope the Tories are cast into permanent oblivion.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100
    Omnium said:

    Are there any out and out Trump supporters on PB? I know @HYUFD is at least somewhat supportive, but even the much missed Plato wasn't entirely in his camp.
    @HYUFD is more than 'somewhat supportive':

    I would vote for Trump over Harris

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4903878/#Comment_4903878
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,838
    DougSeal said:

    Okay…I’ll explain this once.

    Discriminating against Muslims is what is called “indirect racial discrimination” because Muslims in this country are majority of a national origin (which counts under race in the relevant legislation) from South Asian countries. Just as “no Catholics” was not very well coded discrimination against Irish people in the past.

    A provision, criteria, or practice that discriminates against Muslims will, statistically, be harder for someone of South Asian decent to overcome and most that employ one know that. So yes, it is racist.
    And in fact the far right transparently use anti-Muslim propaganda as a proxy for racist propaganda, purely for legal reasons.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,010
    MaxPB said:

    You're wrong, it's a known cultural issue and relates to Sharia or religious law which holds the value of women at a fraction of men in the countries where these men (or their fathers) originate from. Denying that it's an issue is what allows scandals like Rotherham to happen for years and get covered up.

    We've had multiple cases of political pressure being applied to the police and the media across many issues, the Rotherham scandal and COVID stick out as two significant ones. Pretending that it doesn't happen is delusional.
    Quite extraordinary levels of consanguinity too...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,471
    edited July 2024
    Cookie said:

    I'm astonished.
    Though I am a parent of children of that age so maybe it resonates more with that demographic.
    I'd have thought anyone with a family would be rather affected though.
    Plenty of us have young families. We're just not committing the convenient non-sequitur of turning this into a race war.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,505
    MaxPB said:

    Yes, our nursery WhatsApp chat is still pretty angry. I think when the death of the third girl was announced it was the first time I've seen so many mild mannered middle class people go ape shit and talk about bringing back hanging etc...
    The local parents chat group is approaching supernova.

    The funny thing is that, having lived in and around some truly violent countries, it feels… childish. Play anger.
  • DougSeal said:

    I could answer that but I’ve searched through my wallet and by bag, and I’ll look down the back of the sofa when I’m home, but I’m sorry, I really don’t think I have any fucks left to give.
    There are more important matters:

    Is the line diverging towards Stoke on Trent at Colwich Junction a

    Branch Line
    Secondary Main Line
    Subsidiary Line
    dixiedean said:

    What does non icon like iconography look like?
    Is that just ography?
    That reminds me of the late Victor Lewis Smiths report of watching a porn video with the screen broken and only the sound working.

    He came to the conclusion that Pornography without a Pornograph was fairly pointless.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,290
    Andy_JS said:

    What's going on with all these mini-riots?

    A mix of inchoate anger among ordinary folk, and a few bad actors trying to stir up something ugly, perhaps ?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,505

    Top evening for the Orange One:



    Karen Attiah
    @KarenAttiah
    ·
    1h
    Room is boiling with anger and disappointment right now

    …….


  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,471
    MaxPB said:

    Yes, our nursery WhatsApp chat is still pretty angry. I think when the death of the third girl was announced it was the first time I've seen so many mild mannered middle class people go ape shit and talk about bringing back hanging etc...
    But are they talking about Islam and sharia law, or race war? I assume not. They didn't after the moors murderers or the Wests. That's where this place seems to be non-sequiting.
  • vinovino Posts: 173
    TimS said:

    This is the only place I am seeing this being turned into a race war.

    People always get understandably upset by mass murder and want vengeance against the murderer. It happened with countless serial killers through history. They don't usually turn it into a ethno-political issue though. The only reason they are doing so, is because the murderer was black. And because dark forces on social media are manipulating and amplifying the divisive narrative.
    They are upset because it's to do with immigration - nobody appears to be listening - remember Brexit
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347
    stjohn said:

    I've just added to my Kamala for POTUS position by backing her at 2.4. THe polls have the race neck and neck and with her VP pick still to come and the Dem convention too, she ought to be able to build further on her "Big Mo". I'm hoping she gets to betting parity with Trump soon and then I might lay back some of my position. Trump does seem to making a lot of unforced errors that may play to his base but not to swing voters.

    Major moment to report - with Harris shortening to her current price the MTM of my book has gone small positive. It was 4 digits negative post assassination attempt and before Biden pulled out.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 981

    The weather.
    This is why it's good Britain is not normally a hot country
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,228
    Scott_xP said:

    @ProjectLincoln
    "Today we saw a terribly panicked Trump run off stage at #NABJ. His staff had to pull him after they screwed up again by putting him on stage facing his worst nightmare: women of color. Trump's running scared and now should LaCivita and Wiles. You know Trump's going to be asking around for names after this. And between picking JD Vance - who clearly wasn't vetted, running the entire race against a guy who dropped out, attacking the rights of women, and embracing casual racism, this team couldn't manage a cocktail party." - LP Chief of Staff
    @Ryan_N_Wiggins

    I have to agree with this - it's not a good campaign politically - losing Biden really seems to have rattled them. I don’t think it's really in Trump's personality to let a professional spin doctor work on his image and make day to day decisions. That's a problem. See also his hopeless legal representation.
  • vino said:

    They are upset because it's to do with immigration - nobody appears to be listening - remember Brexit
    That someone born in Cardiff committed a crime has √(fuck all) to do with immigration.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,789

    I don't wish to give too much away, but Mrs Northern_Al's name rhymes pretty much, and she's quite a fan.
    However, Pamela for Kamala is yet to go viral.
    Pam-el-la does not rhyme with Kammer-la 😃
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 981

    Polling USA
    @USA_Polling
    Presidential Polling:

    Harris (D): 48%
    Trump (R): 41%
    Kennedy (I): 5%

    Leger / July 29, 2024 / n=786
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,999
    DavidL said:

    I linked to that down thread. I really think Trump is losing the plot and simply doesn't know how to get at Harris in the way that he has got at most of his opponents over the last 10 years. He hasn't even got a half decent nickname or catch phrase for her. He looks a bit bewildered how the race has changed.
    The basic point with Trump is that his electoral record outside GOP primaries is actually pretty poor. Lost the popular vote twice - and beat Hillary in the electoral college thanks to her being an unpopular known quantity with her own scandals (trumped up or otherwise) who ran a badly misjudged campaign. Underperformed in mid-terms should have done far better in, in part due to backing crazy candidates who were slavishly loyal to him. And of course lost to Biden - who was the right candidate in 2020 over other senior Democrats like Bernie and Warren - but was hardly at the peak of his powers even then.

    He's been at the most popular he's ever been, personally, in this cycle, and that's by and large because he's been much less the focus until now due to worries about Biden's health/capability. Put forward a candidate who forces him to campaign and poke him, and he's back where he was in 2020 or 2016 and flailing all over the place again. Now of course he won in 2016 despite numerous horrorshows, so one wouldn't write him off - it's such a narrow group of voters who decide and multiple factors could swing it that might not hinge on him being awful. But he is a bad candidate who is very beatable if the Dems don't do anything stupid (hardly a given).

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,773
    kinabalu said:

    The swimming has been great.
    It's all been great since that risible opening ceremony ended. I am so pleased that the Parisians and French are getting so much pleasure out of their Olympics in the same way we did in 2012. The Brits are doing pretty well too.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100
    Cookie said:

    I was thinking of the Manchester bombing in 2017ish.
    Ah yes, I take your point whilst noting that this was by its nature a very different tragedy.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,644
    TimS said:

    This is the only place I am seeing this being turned into a race war.

    People always get understandably upset by mass murder and want vengeance against the murderer. It happened with countless serial killers through history. They don't usually turn it into a ethno-political issue though. The only reason they are doing so, is because the murderer was black. And because dark forces on social media are manipulating and amplifying the divisive narrative.
    It's because theŕe is so much mystery about the motive. It's just such a weirdly purposeless crime
    Could be incel - but incels usually target older girls. Could be random madman - but seemed to be carefully planned, which random madmen tend to be bad at. Could be Islam - but Rwanda is pretty light on Muslims. So of course there is speculation.
    As others have pointed out, the identity of the individual is protected as he's under 18. So we'll just have to wait.
    The weird language and choices of emphasis of those in charge aren't really helping though. It's not being very well poloticked.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,471
    Nunu5 said:

    This is why it's good Britain is not normally a hot country
    If it were, presumably the rioting impulse would adapt accordingly though.

    There have been some interesting studies of riots and weather. The correlation is pretty strong. Especially with high humidity. I notice a more aggressive attitude in drivers in hot weather - more beeps and flashes, more wanker signs, more sudden pulling out of lane, although I wonder if that is more muted since most cars got a/c as standard.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,505
    Nigelb said:

    A mix of inchoate anger among ordinary folk, and a few bad actors trying to stir up something ugly, perhaps ?
    Has it reached the shoe shopping stage?

    Incidentally, I was appalled by that machete fight I saw yesterday. No swordsmanship - terrible stance, no guard position, no parrying. This is exactly the kind of area where we should inculcate Proper British Values.

    What would the militia who did the Peterloo massacre say? Put on a charge and give them 100 hours of sabre drill…
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,109
    Nigelb said:

    A mix of inchoate anger among ordinary folk, and a few bad actors trying to stir up something ugly, perhaps ?
    Rioting is commoner in hot weather. The Tommy Robinson lot have been agitating for a while, before this stabbing. Social media has become more toxic with Musk crippling moderation on Twitter. This led to lies being spread, predominantly in Twitter, deliberately or unknowingly that linked the stabbing to a Muslim name. I’d say the blame mostly lies with bad actors.

    Now some, including here, feel that the most important reaction to a tragic event that involved, as far as we know, 0 Muslims is to make sweeping statements about Muslims being a problem.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100
    DavidL said:

    It's all been great since that risible opening ceremony ended. I am so pleased that the Parisians and French are getting so much pleasure out of their Olympics in the same way we did in 2012. The Brits are doing pretty well too.
    The accounts I read suggest the French loved their opening ceremony.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/27/france-verdict-paris-olympic-opening-ceremony
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,690
    TimS said:

    But are they talking about Islam and sharia law, or race war? I assume not. They didn't after the moors murderers or the Wests. That's where this place seems to be non-sequiting.
    No of course not, but PB has always been a pretty good place to kick around ideas that may not necessarily get a hearing anywhere else. The dissection of the race issue on here is probably a more eloquent reflection of what's actually happening in private EDL chats and I don't see anyone actually supporting that point of view either. I brought it up yesterday because I think the poor government communication on this is leading to race riots and as someone who isn't white I'm not overly enamoured with the prospect, I guess I could get my wife to go out and do all the errands but she's Jewish so the other idiots on the streets might not like her very much either.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,716
    Nunu5 said:


    Polling USA
    @USA_Polling
    Presidential Polling:

    Harris (D): 48%
    Trump (R): 41%
    Kennedy (I): 5%

    Leger / July 29, 2024 / n=786


    How long before BF is showing cross-over?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,716

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    5m
    MAIL: Russia linked to fake news that sparked Mosque Riot #TomorrowsPapersToday
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,290
    Chris said:

    Incredibly ironic that only about a month after Biden's disastrous debate performance, it's now the Republicans who find themselves confronted by the problem of what to do with a presidential candidate who is obviously not mentally competent.
    Except in Trump’s case it’s compounded by his mix of misogyny and racism.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,644

    That someone born in Cardiff committed a crime has √(fuck all) to do with immigration.
    Well, clearly that's not the case either in perception or reality.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,031
    Nunu5 said:


    Polling USA
    @USA_Polling
    Presidential Polling:

    Harris (D): 48%
    Trump (R): 41%
    Kennedy (I): 5%

    Leger / July 29, 2024 / n=786

    Boom.

    That's going to help calm Trump's temper tantrums.

    50 something 30 something would be joyous.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,100
    viewcode said:

    Pam-el-la does not rhyme with Kammer-la 😃
    I've read that several times and it still seems to rhyme to me.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347
    vino said:

    They are upset because it's to do with immigration - nobody appears to be listening - remember Brexit
    Oh god, you mean if we don't pander to racist drivel they'll go and vote for something really stupid again?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,927
    Nunu5 said:


    Polling USA
    @USA_Polling
    Presidential Polling:

    Harris (D): 48%
    Trump (R): 41%
    Kennedy (I): 5%

    Leger / July 29, 2024 / n=786

    Looks like Harris is heading for victory.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,471

    I have to agree with this - it's not a good campaign politically - losing Biden really seems to have rattled them. I don’t think it's really in Trump's personality to let a professional spin doctor work on his image and make day to day decisions. That's a problem. See also his hopeless legal representation.
    I suspect over the next couple of months he'll settle and will start to gain back momentum. Harris is still in honeymoon. She and the Democrats really need to get as much of a swing now as possible, so they have a bit of a lead before the tide turns again.

    Trying to think of an equivalent here and the closest I can get is actually 2019. Very unpopular and tired incumbent, opposition leader who is disliked but enough are prepared to vote for that they enjoy a small but clear polling lead. Then a change in leadership and injection of energy, and at the same time the shortcomings of the opposition leader start looking more stark and less forgivable and his appeal starts to unravel.
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 439
    edited July 2024
    I'm pretty angry, and I don't have kids.

    I've had to stop myself from commenting on here, these last couple of nights. I just think - how would this be read by a parent of one of the kids who were murdered, or just about escaped?

    It is their tragedy, first and foremost.

    It's too soon. Too raw. Too proximate. This website is too public.

    The one political point I will make, is to give credit to JRM (On times radio this morning, iirc). He praised Starmer for his appropriate response.

    That was decent of him.

    I mean, it's, frankly, expected. But with the MAGA leaning right, you can never count on such decency.

    Please don't reply to this. I shan't respond.

    RIP.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,999

    Why is Vance's reputation suddenly in free fall? A few weeks ago he was Golden Boy.
    Because people outside the bubble of very rich online right-wing Silicon Valley oddballs who love him have got a look at Vance 2.0 - the version that seems like he came out of the kind of horrendous message board Dominic Cummings would love. As opposed to the Vance of Hillbilly Elegy who was pitching himself as prole whispering working class boy dun good.
  • Rioting is commoner in hot weather. The Tommy Robinson lot have been agitating for a while, before this stabbing. Social media has become more toxic with Musk crippling moderation on Twitter. This led to lies being spread, predominantly in Twitter, deliberately or unknowingly that linked the stabbing to a Muslim name. I’d say the blame mostly lies with bad actors.

    Now some, including here, feel that the most important reaction to a tragic event that involved, as far as we know, 0 Muslims is to make sweeping statements about Muslims being a problem.
    Indeed.

    Islam has many very serious problems, in the same way that Christianity and other belief systems do.

    But "Muslims" vary dramatically and are not any one thing.

    Thankfully many Muslims, like many Christians, take the worst elements of their religion with a pinch of salt. Which doesn't mean that those fundamentalists who don't are twisting a religion, sadly the bad elements are there in black and white in both texts because these religions are not from the modern era and don't fit modern standards in full.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,507
    edited July 2024
    What we are underestimating on this forum is also the desire of PB Tories to get in and amongst the Labour party.

    Thus, the horrendous comment that Starmer is taking the side of child murderers and Islam, Islam, something. I mean, go to absolute hell won't you.

    Our common or garden PB Tory of good character is so riled by losing the election, that they happily ride in bareback on a torrent of fascist misinformation and fantasy just to have a dig at the new government.

    Yes, there is a point to be had about how government and police communicate in these circumstances that actually pre-dates this administration, and I'd like to see a clearer playbook as I said yesterday, and some of that is in the points this evening. But you couldn't resist going in knee high with the far right stuff as well.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,716
    This is Fox News!!


    Acyn
    @Acyn
    ·
    1h
    Jessica: My reaction is it was an complete absolute dumpster fire for the former president, I don't feel the need to give him any credit for showing up there because he came with a terrible attitude

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1818734986817839363
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,079

    Boom.

    That's going to help calm Trump's temper tantrums.

    50 something 30 something would be joyous.

    Is there a mechanism for Republican men in grey suits to step in at this stage, or are they stuck with the Orange One?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,505
    MaxPB said:

    No of course not, but PB has always been a pretty good place to kick around ideas that may not necessarily get a hearing anywhere else. The dissection of the race issue on here is probably a more eloquent reflection of what's actually happening in private EDL chats and I don't see anyone actually supporting that point of view either. I brought it up yesterday because I think the poor government communication on this is leading to race riots and as someone who isn't white I'm not overly enamoured with the prospect, I guess I could get my wife to go out and do all the errands but she's Jewish so the other idiots on the streets might not like her very much either.
    The same brain dead comms game will produce the same result every time - an open gate for the conspiracy theorists and the violent scum following in their wake.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,644
    TimS said:

    But are they talking about Islam and sharia law, or race war? I assume not. They didn't after the moors murderers or the Wests. That's where this place seems to be non-sequiting.
    Well no, the middle classes won't, in polite company. They have to know you pretty well before they'ĺl admit to unfashionable views that working class people might have.
    It's interesting (in a general sense - been to neither this week) the contrasting views I hear expressed by other parents on my daughter's sports teams. You hear views expressed by the football parents that you wouldn't at the çricket club.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,773


    How long before BF is showing cross-over?
    Tomorrow? Things are moving very fast right now.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,153
    edited July 2024

    Is there a mechanism for Republican men in grey suits to step in at this stage, or are they stuck with the Orange One?
    Well effectively now if he steps down then Vance will be the one stepping up, which isn't exactly good for GOP prospects either.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,505


    How long before BF is showing cross-over?
    Hmmm…. Harris is squeezing Kennedy?
This discussion has been closed.