I see things are a bit lively in whitehall this evening.
Hopefully it will piss down tomorrow evening and nip any more protests in the bud. Last thing we need is an escalation.
No we don't need an escalation, we do need for the people to send a message to the government and police that this is unacceptable and the seemingly blasé nature of the PM in dealing with the fallout of the murders and subsequent anger from him against the idiot rioters is only going to make people more angry. His priorities are clear from where they're standing - he's siding with the child murderer because they think the child murderer is an immigrant Muslim (with no evidence, of course).
Sorry but no, everyone decent should be standing with law and order here.
Which is against the murder, in favour of the Police being given space to do their job, in favour of the law being maintained about protecting the identity of under 18 suspects (see the cutting down every law to get to the devil quote) and against the trouble-makers who are trying to abuse this incident to instil even more violence.
Again, you're missing the point, there's a very large sense building at the moment that the government and police are overseeing a coverup to protect the child killer because of his ethnic background. It's obviously not true but the silence from the police and the government has been deafening and voices from social media or worse are filling that void. You can hope as much as you like for people to be in support of law and order, but the experience of people is that they couldn't rely on law and order to prevent the Rotherham and other child rape gangs and people are seeing parallels between this case and what happened then.
How is there any sense of that building?
What a stinking pile of bovine manure.
The law is the law and the law says not to identify under-18 suspects. Anyone who is claiming cover-up is either thick as pig shit and doesn't grasp the law, or knows it and is being disingenuous.
We have no reason to kowtow to either the thick as pig shit, nor the disingenuous.
And yet the protests and riots about this are expected to get worse over the next few days.
The police fucked up when they ruled out terrorism so quickly, I actually think that's what's kicked this all off.
This is the situation so far - a mass stabbing with three murdered children, a perpetrator caught red handed at the scene with the murder weapon, no details of ethnicity released about said perpetrator by the police and within a few hours terrorism is ruled out but no other motive is given, specifically "we don't have any clue other than to say it's definitely not terrorism" alongside unverified witness reports that he was black or had dark skin colour.
I'm not saying it's a coverup, I can see why people might start to think it is. If the police haven't got any inkling of motive then how can they rule out terrorism, what was with the whole "he's born in Cardiff" stuff all about followed by "to Rwandan parents" in tiny small print.
You can't deny that the communication has been bungled by the police and I would say the politicians. Above all else there's three dead young girls and people are out for blood. It's the first crime we've had like this since probably Dunblane and so far no one is coming out of it very well.
We're probably moving into a new context where the kind of seemingly random violence we see can't easily be categorised as terrorism or not. Our procedures are still stuck in a post-9/11 frame that feels out of date.
A point for the pig shit / disingenuous, if he is of Rwandan descent then, given Rwanda is 90%+ Christian, Why aren't you all out attacking churches?
Rwanda you say? Have they not provided a recent example of inter-ethnic violence that isn’t religiously inspired?
It was 30 years ago.
As the suspect has an older brother also born in the UK, it is very possible that the parents arrived here fleeing genocide.
Tomorrow I go to St Peterborough to admire Cathedral. Da.
Back in October 2022, I went to Peterborough to do the Nene Valley Railway.
Fun fact. Many years ago I once had an impromptu PB meet up with @Verulamius when I was sat on a train to work reading PB on my mobile and realised the chap sat next to me also was reading PB.
We haven't had a PB meet up for far too long. I really enjoyed the one I went to in Manchester.
Last one I went to was in London, 2017.
Sunil. Time to upgrade your 'Starmer /Calmer logo. Why not one for 'Kamala'? You've done some good ones in your time
To be fair there's not as many words that rhyme with Kamala but if anyone can do it, @Sunil_Prasannan can
Whamala Bamala thank you Kamala?
It doesn't quite have to rhyme.
This one worked for Obama as well, but no one used it afaik .
I see things are a bit lively in whitehall this evening.
Hopefully it will piss down tomorrow evening and nip any more protests in the bud. Last thing we need is an escalation.
No we don't need an escalation, we do need for the people to send a message to the government and police that this is unacceptable and the seemingly blasé nature of the PM in dealing with the fallout of the murders and subsequent anger from him against the idiot rioters is only going to make people more angry. His priorities are clear from where they're standing - he's siding with the child murderer because they think the child murderer is an immigrant Muslim (with no evidence, of course).
Sorry but no, everyone decent should be standing with law and order here.
Which is against the murder, in favour of the Police being given space to do their job, in favour of the law being maintained about protecting the identity of under 18 suspects (see the cutting down every law to get to the devil quote) and against the trouble-makers who are trying to abuse this incident to instil even more violence.
Again, you're missing the point, there's a very large sense building at the moment that the government and police are overseeing a coverup to protect the child killer because of his ethnic background. It's obviously not true but the silence from the police and the government has been deafening and voices from social media or worse are filling that void. You can hope as much as you like for people to be in support of law and order, but the experience of people is that they couldn't rely on law and order to prevent the Rotherham and other child rape gangs and people are seeing parallels between this case and what happened then.
How is there any sense of that building?
What a stinking pile of bovine manure.
The law is the law and the law says not to identify under-18 suspects. Anyone who is claiming cover-up is either thick as pig shit and doesn't grasp the law, or knows it and is being disingenuous.
We have no reason to kowtow to either the thick as pig shit, nor the disingenuous.
And yet the protests and riots about this are expected to get worse over the next few days.
The police fucked up when they ruled out terrorism so quickly, I actually think that's what's kicked this all off.
This is the situation so far - a mass stabbing with three murdered children, a perpetrator caught red handed at the scene with the murder weapon, no details of ethnicity released about said perpetrator by the police and within a few hours terrorism is ruled out but no other motive is given, specifically "we don't have any clue other than to say it's definitely not terrorism" alongside unverified witness reports that he was black or had dark skin colour.
I'm not saying it's a coverup, I can see why people might start to think it is. If the police haven't got any inkling of motive then how can they rule out terrorism, what was with the whole "he's born in Cardiff" stuff all about followed by "to Rwandan parents" in tiny small print.
You can't deny that the communication has been bungled by the police and I would say the politicians. Above all else there's three dead young girls and people are out for blood. It's the first crime we've had like this since probably Dunblane and so far no one is coming out of it very well.
No, the problem is racists like you pushing lies, and thugs like the EDL wanting a brawl because it's hot.
Please find a single point where I've lied or been racist? Retract both of those.
This one for a start you utter shit stirring knob -
Having seen your type shaming our country by terrorising some perfectly innocent tourists in Westminster tonight I am in no mood to tolerate your reprehensible disingenuousness on here.
Yes because as a brown person I'm absolutely going to be out there with the EDL. Are you drunk?
Politico.com - Hungary blocks EU bid for unified statement on Venezuela election
SSI - Surprise, surprise!
Interesting though, that the Victor Orban of Tallahassee, Gov. Ron DeSantis has strongly criticized Vincent Maduro for (alleged or rather obvious) election rigging, putting the blame squarely on . . . wait for it . . . Joe Biden.
I see things are a bit lively in whitehall this evening.
Hopefully it will piss down tomorrow evening and nip any more protests in the bud. Last thing we need is an escalation.
No we don't need an escalation, we do need for the people to send a message to the government and police that this is unacceptable and the seemingly blasé nature of the PM in dealing with the fallout of the murders and subsequent anger from him against the idiot rioters is only going to make people more angry. His priorities are clear from where they're standing - he's siding with the child murderer because they think the child murderer is an immigrant Muslim (with no evidence, of course).
Sorry but no, everyone decent should be standing with law and order here.
Which is against the murder, in favour of the Police being given space to do their job, in favour of the law being maintained about protecting the identity of under 18 suspects (see the cutting down every law to get to the devil quote) and against the trouble-makers who are trying to abuse this incident to instil even more violence.
Again, you're missing the point, there's a very large sense building at the moment that the government and police are overseeing a coverup to protect the child killer because of his ethnic background. It's obviously not true but the silence from the police and the government has been deafening and voices from social media or worse are filling that void. You can hope as much as you like for people to be in support of law and order, but the experience of people is that they couldn't rely on law and order to prevent the Rotherham and other child rape gangs and people are seeing parallels between this case and what happened then.
How is there any sense of that building?
What a stinking pile of bovine manure.
The law is the law and the law says not to identify under-18 suspects. Anyone who is claiming cover-up is either thick as pig shit and doesn't grasp the law, or knows it and is being disingenuous.
We have no reason to kowtow to either the thick as pig shit, nor the disingenuous.
And yet the protests and riots about this are expected to get worse over the next few days.
The police fucked up when they ruled out terrorism so quickly, I actually think that's what's kicked this all off.
This is the situation so far - a mass stabbing with three murdered children, a perpetrator caught red handed at the scene with the murder weapon, no details of ethnicity released about said perpetrator by the police and within a few hours terrorism is ruled out but no other motive is given, specifically "we don't have any clue other than to say it's definitely not terrorism" alongside unverified witness reports that he was black or had dark skin colour.
I'm not saying it's a coverup, I can see why people might start to think it is. If the police haven't got any inkling of motive then how can they rule out terrorism, what was with the whole "he's born in Cardiff" stuff all about followed by "to Rwandan parents" in tiny small print.
You can't deny that the communication has been bungled by the police and I would say the politicians. Above all else there's three dead young girls and people are out for blood. It's the first crime we've had like this since probably Dunblane and so far no one is coming out of it very well.
We're probably moving into a new context where the kind of seemingly random violence we see can't easily be categorised as terrorism or not. Our procedures are still stuck in a post-9/11 frame that feels out of date.
A point for the pig shit / disingenuous, if he is of Rwandan descent then, given Rwanda is 90%+ Christian, Why aren't you all out attacking churches?
Rwanda you say? Have they not provided a recent example of inter-ethnic violence that isn’t religiously inspired?
Surely not. It's a safe country. We've got legislation to prove it.
Riot police in attendance at a hotel housing illegal migrants in Manchester after "demonstations" by Football Fan types broke out.
It comes back to your point yesterday about the UK becoming increasingly sectarian. For the benefit of the doubt, as some were throwing around accusations of racism after the last thread, I a) don't think this is a good thing and b) don't support the "football fan types" who are going round causing bother, either.
It's not though. Only in the hyper-real world of social media, where everything constantly gets amplified, commonly by accounts based a couple of thousand miles East of here.
PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.
Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.
That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
Kamala Harris seems perfectly nice, very smiley. I can't help but question though why given the opportunity of being VP to a waning President, she has failed to distinguish herself to the point of Biden being the preferred candidate until his deficiencies were so glaring they could no longer be denied.
She’s a totally empty suit, something which will soon become apparent once the sycophancy dies down a little.
How do you square the circle of your flag waving for Trump and his flag waving for Putin?
I don't recall Sandpit flag waving for Trump? It's possible to be dubious about the merits of a candidate without supporting that candidates opponent. Especially in an election in which you don't have a vote.
Are there any out and out Trump supporters on PB? I know @HYUFD is at least somewhat supportive, but even the much missed Plato wasn't entirely in his camp.
I was amused by this post as surely the question should have been "Are there any out and out Reform supporters on PB?" The majority of posters here appear to be Rich Remainers: the number of Remainers I know is very small - the vast majority of my family and friends voted Leave. Leon's posts are just designed to wind you up and boy do they succeed - I'm in agreement with him most of the time. A lot of you appear to be very scared of Reform and I can understand why - there is a good chance they will benefit when Labour WWC voters turn away. If Reform starts taking on former Tory Cabinet members then I will never vote for them - with regard to Labour's housing policy a simple "immigrants have to have somewhere to live" works wonders. However the site is still excellent for betting tips and I thank all the posters who contributed to my small wins on Election night. My car sticker is just in the process of being printed "Don't Blame Me - I Voted Reform" Hat-tip Labour 1979
I see things are a bit lively in whitehall this evening.
Hopefully it will piss down tomorrow evening and nip any more protests in the bud. Last thing we need is an escalation.
No we don't need an escalation, we do need for the people to send a message to the government and police that this is unacceptable and the seemingly blasé nature of the PM in dealing with the fallout of the murders and subsequent anger from him against the idiot rioters is only going to make people more angry. His priorities are clear from where they're standing - he's siding with the child murderer because they think the child murderer is an immigrant Muslim (with no evidence, of course).
Sorry but no, everyone decent should be standing with law and order here.
Which is against the murder, in favour of the Police being given space to do their job, in favour of the law being maintained about protecting the identity of under 18 suspects (see the cutting down every law to get to the devil quote) and against the trouble-makers who are trying to abuse this incident to instil even more violence.
Again, you're missing the point, there's a very large sense building at the moment that the government and police are overseeing a coverup to protect the child killer because of his ethnic background. It's obviously not true but the silence from the police and the government has been deafening and voices from social media or worse are filling that void. You can hope as much as you like for people to be in support of law and order, but the experience of people is that they couldn't rely on law and order to prevent the Rotherham and other child rape gangs and people are seeing parallels between this case and what happened then.
How is there any sense of that building?
What a stinking pile of bovine manure.
The law is the law and the law says not to identify under-18 suspects. Anyone who is claiming cover-up is either thick as pig shit and doesn't grasp the law, or knows it and is being disingenuous.
We have no reason to kowtow to either the thick as pig shit, nor the disingenuous.
And yet the protests and riots about this are expected to get worse over the next few days.
The police fucked up when they ruled out terrorism so quickly, I actually think that's what's kicked this all off.
This is the situation so far - a mass stabbing with three murdered children, a perpetrator caught red handed at the scene with the murder weapon, no details of ethnicity released about said perpetrator by the police and within a few hours terrorism is ruled out but no other motive is given, specifically "we don't have any clue other than to say it's definitely not terrorism" alongside unverified witness reports that he was black or had dark skin colour.
I'm not saying it's a coverup, I can see why people might start to think it is. If the police haven't got any inkling of motive then how can they rule out terrorism, what was with the whole "he's born in Cardiff" stuff all about followed by "to Rwandan parents" in tiny small print.
You can't deny that the communication has been bungled by the police and I would say the politicians. Above all else there's three dead young girls and people are out for blood. It's the first crime we've had like this since probably Dunblane and so far no one is coming out of it very well.
No, the problem is racists like you pushing lies, and thugs like the EDL wanting a brawl because it's hot.
It just gets very boring hearing "racist" get trotted out so much. Particularly in the absence of any othet argument. And particularly of MaxPB. He's been here about 20 years and I've never heard him say anything I would term racist. I strongly suspect you know almost nothing about him.
I know he said, "Religion may be a big factor here, we know Muslim men have got problems with women and infidels etc..." He made a sweeping, negative statement about a large group of people. What do you want to call that?
The last event in this country comparable with this - apparently indiscriminate mass murder of children - was motivated by Islam. For pretty much the reason Max says. It's not surprising people might speculate that this is a repeat. We're used to the pattern. We're used to the way these things are reported. We're used to the way "white" is specified if possible. Though I doubt anyone had Rwanda on their bingo card. I'd add that Islam is a religion, not a race, though this is a little hairsplitty.
Riot police in attendance at a hotel housing illegal migrants in Manchester after "demonstations" by Football Fan types broke out.
It comes back to your point yesterday about the UK becoming increasingly sectarian. For the benefit of the doubt, as some were throwing around accusations of racism after the last thread, I a) don't think this is a good thing and b) don't support the "football fan types" who are going round causing bother, either.
It's not though. Only in the hyper-real world of social media, where everything constantly gets amplified, commonly by accounts based a couple of thousand miles East of here.
PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
This is a common problem. Virtually the entire professional class of people who run the country are (culturally) middle class and most just don't associate with the tens of millions of those who are not, and increasingly don't relate to/emphasise with them. My work and family connections give me a foot in both camps.
Its why Brexit was such a shock to them and I made £120 at six to one the day before.
While the vast majority don't identify with or support football thug types either (quite the opposite), they are as quietly angry about this as the football thugs are noisily angry.
@ProjectLincoln "Today we saw a terribly panicked Trump run off stage at #NABJ. His staff had to pull him after they screwed up again by putting him on stage facing his worst nightmare: women of color. Trump's running scared and now should LaCivita and Wiles. You know Trump's going to be asking around for names after this. And between picking JD Vance - who clearly wasn't vetted, running the entire race against a guy who dropped out, attacking the rights of women, and embracing casual racism, this team couldn't manage a cocktail party." - LP Chief of Staff @Ryan_N_Wiggins
I see things are a bit lively in whitehall this evening.
Hopefully it will piss down tomorrow evening and nip any more protests in the bud. Last thing we need is an escalation.
No we don't need an escalation, we do need for the people to send a message to the government and police that this is unacceptable and the seemingly blasé nature of the PM in dealing with the fallout of the murders and subsequent anger from him against the idiot rioters is only going to make people more angry. His priorities are clear from where they're standing - he's siding with the child murderer because they think the child murderer is an immigrant Muslim (with no evidence, of course).
Sorry but no, everyone decent should be standing with law and order here.
Which is against the murder, in favour of the Police being given space to do their job, in favour of the law being maintained about protecting the identity of under 18 suspects (see the cutting down every law to get to the devil quote) and against the trouble-makers who are trying to abuse this incident to instil even more violence.
Again, you're missing the point, there's a very large sense building at the moment that the government and police are overseeing a coverup to protect the child killer because of his ethnic background. It's obviously not true but the silence from the police and the government has been deafening and voices from social media or worse are filling that void. You can hope as much as you like for people to be in support of law and order, but the experience of people is that they couldn't rely on law and order to prevent the Rotherham and other child rape gangs and people are seeing parallels between this case and what happened then.
How is there any sense of that building?
What a stinking pile of bovine manure.
The law is the law and the law says not to identify under-18 suspects. Anyone who is claiming cover-up is either thick as pig shit and doesn't grasp the law, or knows it and is being disingenuous.
We have no reason to kowtow to either the thick as pig shit, nor the disingenuous.
And yet the protests and riots about this are expected to get worse over the next few days.
The police fucked up when they ruled out terrorism so quickly, I actually think that's what's kicked this all off.
This is the situation so far - a mass stabbing with three murdered children, a perpetrator caught red handed at the scene with the murder weapon, no details of ethnicity released about said perpetrator by the police and within a few hours terrorism is ruled out but no other motive is given, specifically "we don't have any clue other than to say it's definitely not terrorism" alongside unverified witness reports that he was black or had dark skin colour.
I'm not saying it's a coverup, I can see why people might start to think it is. If the police haven't got any inkling of motive then how can they rule out terrorism, what was with the whole "he's born in Cardiff" stuff all about followed by "to Rwandan parents" in tiny small print.
You can't deny that the communication has been bungled by the police and I would say the politicians. Above all else there's three dead young girls and people are out for blood. It's the first crime we've had like this since probably Dunblane and so far no one is coming out of it very well.
No, the problem is racists like you pushing lies, and thugs like the EDL wanting a brawl because it's hot.
It just gets very boring hearing "racist" get trotted out so much. Particularly in the absence of any othet argument. And particularly of MaxPB. He's been here about 20 years and I've never heard him say anything I would term racist. I strongly suspect you know almost nothing about him.
I know he said, "Religion may be a big factor here, we know Muslim men have got problems with women and infidels etc..." He made a sweeping, negative statement about a large group of people. What do you want to call that?
Racist comment that
Technically not as muslims are not a race
Okay…I’ll explain this once.
Discriminating against Muslims is what is called “indirect racial discrimination” because Muslims in this country are majority of a national origin (which counts under race in the relevant legislation) from South Asian countries. Just as “no Catholics” was not very well coded discrimination against Irish people in the past.
A provision, criteria, or practice that discriminates against Muslims will, statistically, be harder for someone of South Asian decent to overcome and most that employ one know that. So yes, it is racist.
The first point is a known issue, it's been researched to death and we also have plenty of evidence in this country, I suggest you read Professor Alexis Jay's report on the Rotherham atrocities perpetrated exclusively by Muslim men from Pakistan and Afghanistan. Motivations included placing a lesser value on women and non-Muslims so they didn't believe it was truly immoral to be doing what they were doing.
On the second point, where does it say I support that view?! Or are you one of those deluded people that thinks something written in PB commenta BTL is actually consequential, I'm not pushing anything or any agenda, just trying to write out what I understand to be the motivations behind the rioting and protesting which might help people to put into context why I think "full force of the law" is the wrong approach to take with these idiots.
The actions of some Muslim men do not mean that "Muslim men have got problems" with anything. To jump from the actions of some to condemn all is racism or some other form of bigotry.
You have repeatedly insinuated or just outright claimed that there has been political pressure behind the police's charging decisions in this case, and before that around BBC coverage of other events, etc. You are often pushing conspiracy theories.
I see things are a bit lively in whitehall this evening.
Hopefully it will piss down tomorrow evening and nip any more protests in the bud. Last thing we need is an escalation.
No we don't need an escalation, we do need for the people to send a message to the government and police that this is unacceptable and the seemingly blasé nature of the PM in dealing with the fallout of the murders and subsequent anger from him against the idiot rioters is only going to make people more angry. His priorities are clear from where they're standing - he's siding with the child murderer because they think the child murderer is an immigrant Muslim (with no evidence, of course).
Sorry but no, everyone decent should be standing with law and order here.
Which is against the murder, in favour of the Police being given space to do their job, in favour of the law being maintained about protecting the identity of under 18 suspects (see the cutting down every law to get to the devil quote) and against the trouble-makers who are trying to abuse this incident to instil even more violence.
Again, you're missing the point, there's a very large sense building at the moment that the government and police are overseeing a coverup to protect the child killer because of his ethnic background. It's obviously not true but the silence from the police and the government has been deafening and voices from social media or worse are filling that void. You can hope as much as you like for people to be in support of law and order, but the experience of people is that they couldn't rely on law and order to prevent the Rotherham and other child rape gangs and people are seeing parallels between this case and what happened then.
How is there any sense of that building?
What a stinking pile of bovine manure.
The law is the law and the law says not to identify under-18 suspects. Anyone who is claiming cover-up is either thick as pig shit and doesn't grasp the law, or knows it and is being disingenuous.
We have no reason to kowtow to either the thick as pig shit, nor the disingenuous.
And yet the protests and riots about this are expected to get worse over the next few days.
The police fucked up when they ruled out terrorism so quickly, I actually think that's what's kicked this all off.
This is the situation so far - a mass stabbing with three murdered children, a perpetrator caught red handed at the scene with the murder weapon, no details of ethnicity released about said perpetrator by the police and within a few hours terrorism is ruled out but no other motive is given, specifically "we don't have any clue other than to say it's definitely not terrorism" alongside unverified witness reports that he was black or had dark skin colour.
I'm not saying it's a coverup, I can see why people might start to think it is. If the police haven't got any inkling of motive then how can they rule out terrorism, what was with the whole "he's born in Cardiff" stuff all about followed by "to Rwandan parents" in tiny small print.
You can't deny that the communication has been bungled by the police and I would say the politicians. Above all else there's three dead young girls and people are out for blood. It's the first crime we've had like this since probably Dunblane and so far no one is coming out of it very well.
We're probably moving into a new context where the kind of seemingly random violence we see can't easily be categorised as terrorism or not. Our procedures are still stuck in a post-9/11 frame that feels out of date.
A point for the pig shit / disingenuous, if he is of Rwandan descent then, given Rwanda is 90%+ Christian, Why aren't you all out attacking churches?
Rwanda you say? Have they not provided a recent example of inter-ethnic violence that isn’t religiously inspired?
It was 30 years ago.
As the suspect has an older brother also born in the UK, it is very possible that the parents arrived here fleeing genocide.
The only thing linking the murderer with Islam or ethnic violence in people's minds is the colour of his skin. That is all. There is a word for that.
I thought his interview was a mix of risible and almost pitiful - and old man who’s completely lost it - except this is someone who might still be elected President. In that context it’s contemptible.
I see things are a bit lively in whitehall this evening.
Hopefully it will piss down tomorrow evening and nip any more protests in the bud. Last thing we need is an escalation.
No we don't need an escalation, we do need for the people to send a message to the government and police that this is unacceptable and the seemingly blasé nature of the PM in dealing with the fallout of the murders and subsequent anger from him against the idiot rioters is only going to make people more angry. His priorities are clear from where they're standing - he's siding with the child murderer because they think the child murderer is an immigrant Muslim (with no evidence, of course).
Sorry but no, everyone decent should be standing with law and order here.
Which is against the murder, in favour of the Police being given space to do their job, in favour of the law being maintained about protecting the identity of under 18 suspects (see the cutting down every law to get to the devil quote) and against the trouble-makers who are trying to abuse this incident to instil even more violence.
Again, you're missing the point, there's a very large sense building at the moment that the government and police are overseeing a coverup to protect the child killer because of his ethnic background. It's obviously not true but the silence from the police and the government has been deafening and voices from social media or worse are filling that void. You can hope as much as you like for people to be in support of law and order, but the experience of people is that they couldn't rely on law and order to prevent the Rotherham and other child rape gangs and people are seeing parallels between this case and what happened then.
How is there any sense of that building?
What a stinking pile of bovine manure.
The law is the law and the law says not to identify under-18 suspects. Anyone who is claiming cover-up is either thick as pig shit and doesn't grasp the law, or knows it and is being disingenuous.
We have no reason to kowtow to either the thick as pig shit, nor the disingenuous.
And yet the protests and riots about this are expected to get worse over the next few days.
The police fucked up when they ruled out terrorism so quickly, I actually think that's what's kicked this all off.
This is the situation so far - a mass stabbing with three murdered children, a perpetrator caught red handed at the scene with the murder weapon, no details of ethnicity released about said perpetrator by the police and within a few hours terrorism is ruled out but no other motive is given, specifically "we don't have any clue other than to say it's definitely not terrorism" alongside unverified witness reports that he was black or had dark skin colour.
I'm not saying it's a coverup, I can see why people might start to think it is. If the police haven't got any inkling of motive then how can they rule out terrorism, what was with the whole "he's born in Cardiff" stuff all about followed by "to Rwandan parents" in tiny small print.
You can't deny that the communication has been bungled by the police and I would say the politicians. Above all else there's three dead young girls and people are out for blood. It's the first crime we've had like this since probably Dunblane and so far no one is coming out of it very well.
No, the problem is racists like you pushing lies, and thugs like the EDL wanting a brawl because it's hot.
Please find a single point where I've lied or been racist? Retract both of those.
This one for a start you utter shit stirring knob -
Having seen your type shaming our country by terrorising some perfectly innocent tourists in Westminster tonight I am in no mood to tolerate your reprehensible disingenuousness on here.
Yes because as a brown person I'm absolutely going to be out there with the EDL. Are you drunk?
No but your fellow travellers on Whitehall clearly are.
on Cooper @joncoopertweets MUST WATCH: This clip shows what was probably Trump’s single most unhinged, outrageous, rude and openly racist exchange with a reporter at the National Association of Black Journalists conference. 👀
I see things are a bit lively in whitehall this evening.
Hopefully it will piss down tomorrow evening and nip any more protests in the bud. Last thing we need is an escalation.
No we don't need an escalation, we do need for the people to send a message to the government and police that this is unacceptable and the seemingly blasé nature of the PM in dealing with the fallout of the murders and subsequent anger from him against the idiot rioters is only going to make people more angry. His priorities are clear from where they're standing - he's siding with the child murderer because they think the child murderer is an immigrant Muslim (with no evidence, of course).
Sorry but no, everyone decent should be standing with law and order here.
Which is against the murder, in favour of the Police being given space to do their job, in favour of the law being maintained about protecting the identity of under 18 suspects (see the cutting down every law to get to the devil quote) and against the trouble-makers who are trying to abuse this incident to instil even more violence.
Again, you're missing the point, there's a very large sense building at the moment that the government and police are overseeing a coverup to protect the child killer because of his ethnic background. It's obviously not true but the silence from the police and the government has been deafening and voices from social media or worse are filling that void. You can hope as much as you like for people to be in support of law and order, but the experience of people is that they couldn't rely on law and order to prevent the Rotherham and other child rape gangs and people are seeing parallels between this case and what happened then.
How is there any sense of that building?
What a stinking pile of bovine manure.
The law is the law and the law says not to identify under-18 suspects. Anyone who is claiming cover-up is either thick as pig shit and doesn't grasp the law, or knows it and is being disingenuous.
We have no reason to kowtow to either the thick as pig shit, nor the disingenuous.
And yet the protests and riots about this are expected to get worse over the next few days.
The police fucked up when they ruled out terrorism so quickly, I actually think that's what's kicked this all off.
This is the situation so far - a mass stabbing with three murdered children, a perpetrator caught red handed at the scene with the murder weapon, no details of ethnicity released about said perpetrator by the police and within a few hours terrorism is ruled out but no other motive is given, specifically "we don't have any clue other than to say it's definitely not terrorism" alongside unverified witness reports that he was black or had dark skin colour.
I'm not saying it's a coverup, I can see why people might start to think it is. If the police haven't got any inkling of motive then how can they rule out terrorism, what was with the whole "he's born in Cardiff" stuff all about followed by "to Rwandan parents" in tiny small print.
You can't deny that the communication has been bungled by the police and I would say the politicians. Above all else there's three dead young girls and people are out for blood. It's the first crime we've had like this since probably Dunblane and so far no one is coming out of it very well.
No, the problem is racists like you pushing lies, and thugs like the EDL wanting a brawl because it's hot.
It just gets very boring hearing "racist" get trotted out so much. Particularly in the absence of any othet argument. And particularly of MaxPB. He's been here about 20 years and I've never heard him say anything I would term racist. I strongly suspect you know almost nothing about him.
I know he said, "Religion may be a big factor here, we know Muslim men have got problems with women and infidels etc..." He made a sweeping, negative statement about a large group of people. What do you want to call that?
Racist comment that
Technically not as muslims are not a race
Okay…I’ll explain this once.
Discriminating against Muslims is what is called “indirect racial discrimination” because Muslims in this country are majority of a national origin (which counts under race in the relevant legislation) from South Asian countries. Just as “no Catholics” was not very well coded discrimination against Irish people in the past.
A provision, criteria, or practice that discriminates against Muslims will, statistically, be harder for someone of South Asian decent to overcome and most that employ one know that. So yes, it is racist.
Would the same argument not lead to the conclusion that EU free movement is indirect racial discrimination?
Riot police in attendance at a hotel housing illegal migrants in Manchester after "demonstations" by Football Fan types broke out.
It comes back to your point yesterday about the UK becoming increasingly sectarian. For the benefit of the doubt, as some were throwing around accusations of racism after the last thread, I a) don't think this is a good thing and b) don't support the "football fan types" who are going round causing bother, either.
It's not though. Only in the hyper-real world of social media, where everything constantly gets amplified, commonly by accounts based a couple of thousand miles East of here.
PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.
Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.
That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
What? No one in your real world is exercised by the murder of a few kids? It's pretty much the subject the real world is most upset about, in my real world.
I see things are a bit lively in whitehall this evening.
Hopefully it will piss down tomorrow evening and nip any more protests in the bud. Last thing we need is an escalation.
No we don't need an escalation, we do need for the people to send a message to the government and police that this is unacceptable and the seemingly blasé nature of the PM in dealing with the fallout of the murders and subsequent anger from him against the idiot rioters is only going to make people more angry. His priorities are clear from where they're standing - he's siding with the child murderer because they think the child murderer is an immigrant Muslim (with no evidence, of course).
Sorry but no, everyone decent should be standing with law and order here.
Which is against the murder, in favour of the Police being given space to do their job, in favour of the law being maintained about protecting the identity of under 18 suspects (see the cutting down every law to get to the devil quote) and against the trouble-makers who are trying to abuse this incident to instil even more violence.
Again, you're missing the point, there's a very large sense building at the moment that the government and police are overseeing a coverup to protect the child killer because of his ethnic background. It's obviously not true but the silence from the police and the government has been deafening and voices from social media or worse are filling that void. You can hope as much as you like for people to be in support of law and order, but the experience of people is that they couldn't rely on law and order to prevent the Rotherham and other child rape gangs and people are seeing parallels between this case and what happened then.
How is there any sense of that building?
What a stinking pile of bovine manure.
The law is the law and the law says not to identify under-18 suspects. Anyone who is claiming cover-up is either thick as pig shit and doesn't grasp the law, or knows it and is being disingenuous.
We have no reason to kowtow to either the thick as pig shit, nor the disingenuous.
And yet the protests and riots about this are expected to get worse over the next few days.
The police fucked up when they ruled out terrorism so quickly, I actually think that's what's kicked this all off.
This is the situation so far - a mass stabbing with three murdered children, a perpetrator caught red handed at the scene with the murder weapon, no details of ethnicity released about said perpetrator by the police and within a few hours terrorism is ruled out but no other motive is given, specifically "we don't have any clue other than to say it's definitely not terrorism" alongside unverified witness reports that he was black or had dark skin colour.
I'm not saying it's a coverup, I can see why people might start to think it is. If the police haven't got any inkling of motive then how can they rule out terrorism, what was with the whole "he's born in Cardiff" stuff all about followed by "to Rwandan parents" in tiny small print.
You can't deny that the communication has been bungled by the police and I would say the politicians. Above all else there's three dead young girls and people are out for blood. It's the first crime we've had like this since probably Dunblane and so far no one is coming out of it very well.
No, the problem is racists like you pushing lies, and thugs like the EDL wanting a brawl because it's hot.
It just gets very boring hearing "racist" get trotted out so much. Particularly in the absence of any othet argument. And particularly of MaxPB. He's been here about 20 years and I've never heard him say anything I would term racist. I strongly suspect you know almost nothing about him.
I know he said, "Religion may be a big factor here, we know Muslim men have got problems with women and infidels etc..." He made a sweeping, negative statement about a large group of people. What do you want to call that?
The last event in this country comparable with this - apparently indiscriminate mass murder of children - was motivated by Islam. For pretty much the reason Max says. It's not surprising people might speculate that this is a repeat. We're used to the pattern. We're used to the way these things are reported. We're used to the way "white" is specified if possible. Though I doubt anyone had Rwanda on their bingo card. I'd add that Islam is a religion, not a race, though this is a little hairsplitty.
Eh? Wasn't the last event comparable to this (indiscriminate mass murder of children) Dunblane?
on Cooper @joncoopertweets MUST WATCH: This clip shows what was probably Trump’s single most unhinged, outrageous, rude and openly racist exchange with a reporter at the National Association of Black Journalists conference. 👀
Be bloody ironic if social media does for him in the end.
I linked to that down thread. I really think Trump is losing the plot and simply doesn't know how to get at Harris in the way that he has got at most of his opponents over the last 10 years. He hasn't even got a half decent nickname or catch phrase for her. He looks a bit bewildered how the race has changed.
Trump appears to have said that it doesn't matter that Vance was a shit choice for veep because the no 2 slot doesn't matter.
Strange, VP seemed to REALLY matter, to Trump AND the rest of the USA, when Mike Pence refused to violate his oath of office to uphold the Constitution?
Mr Rotheram said: “Let’s be absolutely brutal and honest – what are those questions that remain unanswered?
“Well, the name of the individual. That’s because of legal reasons, that person’s 17. The one that social media wants to find out is the religion of that person. So you have to ask yourself the question ‘why would anybody want to know the religion of the perpetrator of this vicious and heinous crime?’
“And it’s to do with exactly what we just talked about earlier, which is to stir up more tension in this community.”
He's 100% correct.
Religion may be a big factor here, we know Muslim men have got problems with women and infidels etc...
To say it's "irrelevant" isn't the truth. It may be irrelevant, it may not be.
Misogyny is a feature of almost all religions particularly the more traditional or extreme sects for example US Christians, Catholicism, orthodox Christianity and Judaism. The likelihood is this will have been an unhappy, maladjusted male teen with mental illness just as it is in most school attacks. The only reason that there are calls to know his religion is so that those people have an excuse to violently attack innocent people/institutions.
A look around you will show you that you don't need to be religious to be a misogynist or to be the sort of scumbag male who attacks women.
This appears to be an exclusively male site so maybe it is uncomfortable to admit that men are often a bloody nuisance and very often, whatever creed, colour or none, a menace to those around them, especially women.
If I say that the killer of young girls was a man (or boy) and this shows the problem with men, people would reasonably object to being grouped with such an individual and call it misandry.
Yet some of the same people are demanding to know if said man was also Muslim or some other group that they dislike, to see if it helps to prove some point about Muslims. To them, if it ends up being a Muslim, that would prove them right and show Muslims to be a problem. It's relevant in a way the suspect's male sex is not.
It is not misandry to point out that sex is the single biggest predictor of whether someone commits a crime. Not all men are criminals obviously but the vast majority of criminals are men.
I see things are a bit lively in whitehall this evening.
Hopefully it will piss down tomorrow evening and nip any more protests in the bud. Last thing we need is an escalation.
No we don't need an escalation, we do need for the people to send a message to the government and police that this is unacceptable and the seemingly blasé nature of the PM in dealing with the fallout of the murders and subsequent anger from him against the idiot rioters is only going to make people more angry. His priorities are clear from where they're standing - he's siding with the child murderer because they think the child murderer is an immigrant Muslim (with no evidence, of course).
Sorry but no, everyone decent should be standing with law and order here.
Which is against the murder, in favour of the Police being given space to do their job, in favour of the law being maintained about protecting the identity of under 18 suspects (see the cutting down every law to get to the devil quote) and against the trouble-makers who are trying to abuse this incident to instil even more violence.
Again, you're missing the point, there's a very large sense building at the moment that the government and police are overseeing a coverup to protect the child killer because of his ethnic background. It's obviously not true but the silence from the police and the government has been deafening and voices from social media or worse are filling that void. You can hope as much as you like for people to be in support of law and order, but the experience of people is that they couldn't rely on law and order to prevent the Rotherham and other child rape gangs and people are seeing parallels between this case and what happened then.
How is there any sense of that building?
What a stinking pile of bovine manure.
The law is the law and the law says not to identify under-18 suspects. Anyone who is claiming cover-up is either thick as pig shit and doesn't grasp the law, or knows it and is being disingenuous.
We have no reason to kowtow to either the thick as pig shit, nor the disingenuous.
And yet the protests and riots about this are expected to get worse over the next few days.
The police fucked up when they ruled out terrorism so quickly, I actually think that's what's kicked this all off.
This is the situation so far - a mass stabbing with three murdered children, a perpetrator caught red handed at the scene with the murder weapon, no details of ethnicity released about said perpetrator by the police and within a few hours terrorism is ruled out but no other motive is given, specifically "we don't have any clue other than to say it's definitely not terrorism" alongside unverified witness reports that he was black or had dark skin colour.
I'm not saying it's a coverup, I can see why people might start to think it is. If the police haven't got any inkling of motive then how can they rule out terrorism, what was with the whole "he's born in Cardiff" stuff all about followed by "to Rwandan parents" in tiny small print.
You can't deny that the communication has been bungled by the police and I would say the politicians. Above all else there's three dead young girls and people are out for blood. It's the first crime we've had like this since probably Dunblane and so far no one is coming out of it very well.
We're probably moving into a new context where the kind of seemingly random violence we see can't easily be categorised as terrorism or not. Our procedures are still stuck in a post-9/11 frame that feels out of date.
A point for the pig shit / disingenuous, if he is of Rwandan descent then, given Rwanda is 90%+ Christian, Why aren't you all out attacking churches?
Rwanda you say? Have they not provided a recent example of inter-ethnic violence that isn’t religiously inspired?
That sort of comment is below PB. If a British 17 year old with Serbian parents committed this, you'd be suggesting it was somehow linked to Srebrenica? Or if a child of Cambodian parents did it there would be some sort of Pol Pot connection?
No, that’s not what I’m saying. The point is that religion isn’t the only faultline that can lead to conflict or motivate violence.
Serbia Ultra Nationalism is on the Prevent list IIRC. There is a weird and nasty sub culture of venerating Arkan - complete with icon like iconography…
Kamala Harris seems perfectly nice, very smiley. I can't help but question though why given the opportunity of being VP to a waning President, she has failed to distinguish herself to the point of Biden being the preferred candidate until his deficiencies were so glaring they could no longer be denied.
She’s a totally empty suit, something which will soon become apparent once the sycophancy dies down a little.
How do you square the circle of your flag waving for Trump and his flag waving for Putin?
I don't recall Sandpit flag waving for Trump? It's possible to be dubious about the merits of a candidate without supporting that candidates opponent. Especially in an election in which you don't have a vote.
Are there any out and out Trump supporters on PB? I know @HYUFD is at least somewhat supportive, but even the much missed Plato wasn't entirely in his camp.
I was amused by this post as surely the question should have been "Are there any out and out Reform supporters on PB?" The majority of posters here appear to be Rich Remainers: the number of Remainers I know is very small - the vast majority of my family and friends voted Leave. Leon's posts are just designed to wind you up and boy do they succeed - I'm in agreement with him most of the time. A lot of you appear to be very scared of Reform and I can understand why - there is a good chance they will benefit when Labour WWC voters turn away. If Reform starts taking on former Tory Cabinet members then I will never vote for them - with regard to Labour's housing policy a simple "immigrants have to have somewhere to live" works wonders. However the site is still excellent for betting tips and I thank all the posters who contributed to my small wins on Election night. My car sticker is just in the process of being printed "Don't Blame Me - I Voted Reform" Hat-tip Labour 1979
There are several Reform supporters on here. 5 or 6. I would say that since the election, now the centre-left has cast the Tories into temporary oblivion, the numbers remaining have changed and a larger proportion of active posters are the Brexiteers, Reform or Tory supporters and MAGA-curious. I certainly post here less since the election.
It's still middle class, of course. But notably more rightward leaning. And even more male. Pretty much 100% male.
on Cooper @joncoopertweets MUST WATCH: This clip shows what was probably Trump’s single most unhinged, outrageous, rude and openly racist exchange with a reporter at the National Association of Black Journalists conference. 👀
Be bloody ironic if social media does for him in the end.
I linked to that down thread. I really think Trump is losing the plot and simply doesn't know how to get at Harris in the way that he has got at most of his opponents over the last 10 years. He hasn't even got a half decent nickname or catch phrase for her. He looks a bit bewildered how the race has changed.
Hyena Harris might work because of the laugh thing.
Has he tried that?
I will die laughing if she takes him down in this contest. His very very bigly worse nightmare.
The first point is a known issue, it's been researched to death and we also have plenty of evidence in this country, I suggest you read Professor Alexis Jay's report on the Rotherham atrocities perpetrated exclusively by Muslim men from Pakistan and Afghanistan. Motivations included placing a lesser value on women and non-Muslims so they didn't believe it was truly immoral to be doing what they were doing.
On the second point, where does it say I support that view?! Or are you one of those deluded people that thinks something written in PB commenta BTL is actually consequential, I'm not pushing anything or any agenda, just trying to write out what I understand to be the motivations behind the rioting and protesting which might help people to put into context why I think "full force of the law" is the wrong approach to take with these idiots.
The actions of some Muslim men do not mean that "Muslim men have got problems" with anything. To jump from the actions of some to condemn all is racism or some other form of bigotry.
You have repeatedly insinuated or just outright claimed that there has been political pressure behind the police's charging decisions in this case, and before that around BBC coverage of other events, etc. You are often pushing conspiracy theories.
The Police don't make charging decisions. As for the speed of questioning. Well, it's obviously been delayed by a bunch of patriots chucking bricks at every available officer.
Riot police in attendance at a hotel housing illegal migrants in Manchester after "demonstations" by Football Fan types broke out.
It comes back to your point yesterday about the UK becoming increasingly sectarian. For the benefit of the doubt, as some were throwing around accusations of racism after the last thread, I a) don't think this is a good thing and b) don't support the "football fan types" who are going round causing bother, either.
It's not though. Only in the hyper-real world of social media, where everything constantly gets amplified, commonly by accounts based a couple of thousand miles East of here.
PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.
Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.
That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
What? No one in your real world is exercised by the murder of a few kids? It's pretty much the subject the real world is most upset about, in my real world.
Here and twitter are the only place that I have heard it discussed.
The first point is a known issue, it's been researched to death and we also have plenty of evidence in this country, I suggest you read Professor Alexis Jay's report on the Rotherham atrocities perpetrated exclusively by Muslim men from Pakistan and Afghanistan. Motivations included placing a lesser value on women and non-Muslims so they didn't believe it was truly immoral to be doing what they were doing.
On the second point, where does it say I support that view?! Or are you one of those deluded people that thinks something written in PB commenta BTL is actually consequential, I'm not pushing anything or any agenda, just trying to write out what I understand to be the motivations behind the rioting and protesting which might help people to put into context why I think "full force of the law" is the wrong approach to take with these idiots.
The actions of some Muslim men do not mean that "Muslim men have got problems" with anything. To jump from the actions of some to condemn all is racism or some other form of bigotry.
You have repeatedly insinuated or just outright claimed that there has been political pressure behind the police's charging decisions in this case, and before that around BBC coverage of other events, etc. You are often pushing conspiracy theories.
You're wrong, it's a known cultural issue and relates to Sharia or religious law which holds the value of women at a fraction of men in the countries where these men (or their fathers) originate from. Denying that it's an issue is what allows scandals like Rotherham to happen for years and get covered up.
We've had multiple cases of political pressure being applied to the police and the media across many issues, the Rotherham scandal and COVID stick out as two significant ones. Pretending that it doesn't happen is delusional.
I see things are a bit lively in whitehall this evening.
Hopefully it will piss down tomorrow evening and nip any more protests in the bud. Last thing we need is an escalation.
No we don't need an escalation, we do need for the people to send a message to the government and police that this is unacceptable and the seemingly blasé nature of the PM in dealing with the fallout of the murders and subsequent anger from him against the idiot rioters is only going to make people more angry. His priorities are clear from where they're standing - he's siding with the child murderer because they think the child murderer is an immigrant Muslim (with no evidence, of course).
Sorry but no, everyone decent should be standing with law and order here.
Which is against the murder, in favour of the Police being given space to do their job, in favour of the law being maintained about protecting the identity of under 18 suspects (see the cutting down every law to get to the devil quote) and against the trouble-makers who are trying to abuse this incident to instil even more violence.
Again, you're missing the point, there's a very large sense building at the moment that the government and police are overseeing a coverup to protect the child killer because of his ethnic background. It's obviously not true but the silence from the police and the government has been deafening and voices from social media or worse are filling that void. You can hope as much as you like for people to be in support of law and order, but the experience of people is that they couldn't rely on law and order to prevent the Rotherham and other child rape gangs and people are seeing parallels between this case and what happened then.
How is there any sense of that building?
What a stinking pile of bovine manure.
The law is the law and the law says not to identify under-18 suspects. Anyone who is claiming cover-up is either thick as pig shit and doesn't grasp the law, or knows it and is being disingenuous.
We have no reason to kowtow to either the thick as pig shit, nor the disingenuous.
And yet the protests and riots about this are expected to get worse over the next few days.
The police fucked up when they ruled out terrorism so quickly, I actually think that's what's kicked this all off.
This is the situation so far - a mass stabbing with three murdered children, a perpetrator caught red handed at the scene with the murder weapon, no details of ethnicity released about said perpetrator by the police and within a few hours terrorism is ruled out but no other motive is given, specifically "we don't have any clue other than to say it's definitely not terrorism" alongside unverified witness reports that he was black or had dark skin colour.
I'm not saying it's a coverup, I can see why people might start to think it is. If the police haven't got any inkling of motive then how can they rule out terrorism, what was with the whole "he's born in Cardiff" stuff all about followed by "to Rwandan parents" in tiny small print.
You can't deny that the communication has been bungled by the police and I would say the politicians. Above all else there's three dead young girls and people are out for blood. It's the first crime we've had like this since probably Dunblane and so far no one is coming out of it very well.
No, the problem is racists like you pushing lies, and thugs like the EDL wanting a brawl because it's hot.
It just gets very boring hearing "racist" get trotted out so much. Particularly in the absence of any othet argument. And particularly of MaxPB. He's been here about 20 years and I've never heard him say anything I would term racist. I strongly suspect you know almost nothing about him.
I know he said, "Religion may be a big factor here, we know Muslim men have got problems with women and infidels etc..." He made a sweeping, negative statement about a large group of people. What do you want to call that?
The last event in this country comparable with this - apparently indiscriminate mass murder of children - was motivated by Islam. For pretty much the reason Max says. It's not surprising people might speculate that this is a repeat. We're used to the pattern. We're used to the way these things are reported. We're used to the way "white" is specified if possible. Though I doubt anyone had Rwanda on their bingo card. I'd add that Islam is a religion, not a race, though this is a little hairsplitty.
Eh? Wasn't the last event comparable to this (indiscriminate mass murder of children) Dunblane?
I was thinking of the Manchester bombing in 2017ish.
I see things are a bit lively in whitehall this evening.
Hopefully it will piss down tomorrow evening and nip any more protests in the bud. Last thing we need is an escalation.
No we don't need an escalation, we do need for the people to send a message to the government and police that this is unacceptable and the seemingly blasé nature of the PM in dealing with the fallout of the murders and subsequent anger from him against the idiot rioters is only going to make people more angry. His priorities are clear from where they're standing - he's siding with the child murderer because they think the child murderer is an immigrant Muslim (with no evidence, of course).
Sorry but no, everyone decent should be standing with law and order here.
Which is against the murder, in favour of the Police being given space to do their job, in favour of the law being maintained about protecting the identity of under 18 suspects (see the cutting down every law to get to the devil quote) and against the trouble-makers who are trying to abuse this incident to instil even more violence.
Again, you're missing the point, there's a very large sense building at the moment that the government and police are overseeing a coverup to protect the child killer because of his ethnic background. It's obviously not true but the silence from the police and the government has been deafening and voices from social media or worse are filling that void. You can hope as much as you like for people to be in support of law and order, but the experience of people is that they couldn't rely on law and order to prevent the Rotherham and other child rape gangs and people are seeing parallels between this case and what happened then.
How is there any sense of that building?
What a stinking pile of bovine manure.
The law is the law and the law says not to identify under-18 suspects. Anyone who is claiming cover-up is either thick as pig shit and doesn't grasp the law, or knows it and is being disingenuous.
We have no reason to kowtow to either the thick as pig shit, nor the disingenuous.
And yet the protests and riots about this are expected to get worse over the next few days.
The police fucked up when they ruled out terrorism so quickly, I actually think that's what's kicked this all off.
This is the situation so far - a mass stabbing with three murdered children, a perpetrator caught red handed at the scene with the murder weapon, no details of ethnicity released about said perpetrator by the police and within a few hours terrorism is ruled out but no other motive is given, specifically "we don't have any clue other than to say it's definitely not terrorism" alongside unverified witness reports that he was black or had dark skin colour.
I'm not saying it's a coverup, I can see why people might start to think it is. If the police haven't got any inkling of motive then how can they rule out terrorism, what was with the whole "he's born in Cardiff" stuff all about followed by "to Rwandan parents" in tiny small print.
You can't deny that the communication has been bungled by the police and I would say the politicians. Above all else there's three dead young girls and people are out for blood. It's the first crime we've had like this since probably Dunblane and so far no one is coming out of it very well.
No, the problem is racists like you pushing lies, and thugs like the EDL wanting a brawl because it's hot.
It just gets very boring hearing "racist" get trotted out so much. Particularly in the absence of any othet argument. And particularly of MaxPB. He's been here about 20 years and I've never heard him say anything I would term racist. I strongly suspect you know almost nothing about him.
I know he said, "Religion may be a big factor here, we know Muslim men have got problems with women and infidels etc..." He made a sweeping, negative statement about a large group of people. What do you want to call that?
The last event in this country comparable with this - apparently indiscriminate mass murder of children - was motivated by Islam. For pretty much the reason Max says. It's not surprising people might speculate that this is a repeat. We're used to the pattern. We're used to the way these things are reported. We're used to the way "white" is specified if possible. Though I doubt anyone had Rwanda on their bingo card. I'd add that Islam is a religion, not a race, though this is a little hairsplitty.
Eh? Wasn't the last event comparable to this (indiscriminate mass murder of children) Dunblane?
The Ariana Grande concert in Manchester in 2017 may be what the poster had in mind. Lots of young children there, many girls.
Tomorrow I go to St Peterborough to admire Cathedral. Da.
Back in October 2022, I went to Peterborough to do the Nene Valley Railway.
Bugger. Outed.
Mrs C and I hadf a day out in Peterborough. Well, outside it a bit - to see the Flag Fen site. But the cathedral is a surprise, and the borough museum is nice with eg fossils from the local brick claypits. Or it was then: these days, one has to check if the council museum is still open if one goes anywhere.
Hudgely underrated cathedral because the town isn't great these days, and the cathedral precincts are less than optimal. But original burial place of Mary QoS, and Katherine of Aragon. Brilliant ceiling. Closely linked too to the slight mystery of Archdeacon Wakeford and a lady who was not his wife, beautifully written up by John Treherne in 'Dangerous Precincts', one of very few books to mention Algarkirk on the first page.
Thanks; have put that down for the Abebooks list.
An amazing West Front - as startling as approaching Lincoln Cathedral imo.
Reading of who is buried there, and thinking about all the Chancellors of Oxford University called Ralph, there's a 11C gent called Ralph the Staller, who sounds like a civil servant.
Trump appears to have said that it doesn't matter that Vance was a shit choice for veep because the no 2 slot doesn't matter.
Why is Vance's reputation suddenly in free fall? A few weeks ago he was Golden Boy.
Vance got (in his own words) "sucker punched" by his many smart-ass and/or dip-shit past statements readily available to anyone with access to the internet. BUT apparently beyond the ken of Trumpworld in general, and Donald J. Trump, Jr. in particular.
Trump appears to have said that it doesn't matter that Vance was a shit choice for veep because the no 2 slot doesn't matter.
Why is Vance's reputation suddenly in free fall? A few weeks ago he was Golden Boy.
He appears to have left a trial of social media self-detonators.
Plus he has strong views that aint helping the ticket. Those suburban women are loving his 'make rape victims give birth' otherwise they will be childless cat ladies line.
I see things are a bit lively in whitehall this evening.
Hopefully it will piss down tomorrow evening and nip any more protests in the bud. Last thing we need is an escalation.
No we don't need an escalation, we do need for the people to send a message to the government and police that this is unacceptable and the seemingly blasé nature of the PM in dealing with the fallout of the murders and subsequent anger from him against the idiot rioters is only going to make people more angry. His priorities are clear from where they're standing - he's siding with the child murderer because they think the child murderer is an immigrant Muslim (with no evidence, of course).
Sorry but no, everyone decent should be standing with law and order here.
Which is against the murder, in favour of the Police being given space to do their job, in favour of the law being maintained about protecting the identity of under 18 suspects (see the cutting down every law to get to the devil quote) and against the trouble-makers who are trying to abuse this incident to instil even more violence.
Again, you're missing the point, there's a very large sense building at the moment that the government and police are overseeing a coverup to protect the child killer because of his ethnic background. It's obviously not true but the silence from the police and the government has been deafening and voices from social media or worse are filling that void. You can hope as much as you like for people to be in support of law and order, but the experience of people is that they couldn't rely on law and order to prevent the Rotherham and other child rape gangs and people are seeing parallels between this case and what happened then.
How is there any sense of that building?
What a stinking pile of bovine manure.
The law is the law and the law says not to identify under-18 suspects. Anyone who is claiming cover-up is either thick as pig shit and doesn't grasp the law, or knows it and is being disingenuous.
We have no reason to kowtow to either the thick as pig shit, nor the disingenuous.
And yet the protests and riots about this are expected to get worse over the next few days.
The police fucked up when they ruled out terrorism so quickly, I actually think that's what's kicked this all off.
This is the situation so far - a mass stabbing with three murdered children, a perpetrator caught red handed at the scene with the murder weapon, no details of ethnicity released about said perpetrator by the police and within a few hours terrorism is ruled out but no other motive is given, specifically "we don't have any clue other than to say it's definitely not terrorism" alongside unverified witness reports that he was black or had dark skin colour.
I'm not saying it's a coverup, I can see why people might start to think it is. If the police haven't got any inkling of motive then how can they rule out terrorism, what was with the whole "he's born in Cardiff" stuff all about followed by "to Rwandan parents" in tiny small print.
You can't deny that the communication has been bungled by the police and I would say the politicians. Above all else there's three dead young girls and people are out for blood. It's the first crime we've had like this since probably Dunblane and so far no one is coming out of it very well.
No, the problem is racists like you pushing lies, and thugs like the EDL wanting a brawl because it's hot.
It just gets very boring hearing "racist" get trotted out so much. Particularly in the absence of any othet argument. And particularly of MaxPB. He's been here about 20 years and I've never heard him say anything I would term racist. I strongly suspect you know almost nothing about him.
I know he said, "Religion may be a big factor here, we know Muslim men have got problems with women and infidels etc..." He made a sweeping, negative statement about a large group of people. What do you want to call that?
The last event in this country comparable with this - apparently indiscriminate mass murder of children - was motivated by Islam. For pretty much the reason Max says. It's not surprising people might speculate that this is a repeat. We're used to the pattern. We're used to the way these things are reported. We're used to the way "white" is specified if possible. Though I doubt anyone had Rwanda on their bingo card. I'd add that Islam is a religion, not a race, though this is a little hairsplitty.
I'll ignore the hairsplitting.
You haven't, if I may say so, answered the question. The question was not, "How do we explain these riots?" The question was whether MaxPB's words were racist. You complained at me trotting out "racist". I've given you the reason. Do you accept my reasoning? Do you not consider those words racist?
I see things are a bit lively in whitehall this evening.
Hopefully it will piss down tomorrow evening and nip any more protests in the bud. Last thing we need is an escalation.
No we don't need an escalation, we do need for the people to send a message to the government and police that this is unacceptable and the seemingly blasé nature of the PM in dealing with the fallout of the murders and subsequent anger from him against the idiot rioters is only going to make people more angry. His priorities are clear from where they're standing - he's siding with the child murderer because they think the child murderer is an immigrant Muslim (with no evidence, of course).
Sorry but no, everyone decent should be standing with law and order here.
Which is against the murder, in favour of the Police being given space to do their job, in favour of the law being maintained about protecting the identity of under 18 suspects (see the cutting down every law to get to the devil quote) and against the trouble-makers who are trying to abuse this incident to instil even more violence.
Again, you're missing the point, there's a very large sense building at the moment that the government and police are overseeing a coverup to protect the child killer because of his ethnic background. It's obviously not true but the silence from the police and the government has been deafening and voices from social media or worse are filling that void. You can hope as much as you like for people to be in support of law and order, but the experience of people is that they couldn't rely on law and order to prevent the Rotherham and other child rape gangs and people are seeing parallels between this case and what happened then.
How is there any sense of that building?
What a stinking pile of bovine manure.
The law is the law and the law says not to identify under-18 suspects. Anyone who is claiming cover-up is either thick as pig shit and doesn't grasp the law, or knows it and is being disingenuous.
We have no reason to kowtow to either the thick as pig shit, nor the disingenuous.
And yet the protests and riots about this are expected to get worse over the next few days.
The police fucked up when they ruled out terrorism so quickly, I actually think that's what's kicked this all off.
This is the situation so far - a mass stabbing with three murdered children, a perpetrator caught red handed at the scene with the murder weapon, no details of ethnicity released about said perpetrator by the police and within a few hours terrorism is ruled out but no other motive is given, specifically "we don't have any clue other than to say it's definitely not terrorism" alongside unverified witness reports that he was black or had dark skin colour.
I'm not saying it's a coverup, I can see why people might start to think it is. If the police haven't got any inkling of motive then how can they rule out terrorism, what was with the whole "he's born in Cardiff" stuff all about followed by "to Rwandan parents" in tiny small print.
You can't deny that the communication has been bungled by the police and I would say the politicians. Above all else there's three dead young girls and people are out for blood. It's the first crime we've had like this since probably Dunblane and so far no one is coming out of it very well.
No, the problem is racists like you pushing lies, and thugs like the EDL wanting a brawl because it's hot.
It just gets very boring hearing "racist" get trotted out so much. Particularly in the absence of any othet argument. And particularly of MaxPB. He's been here about 20 years and I've never heard him say anything I would term racist. I strongly suspect you know almost nothing about him.
I know he said, "Religion may be a big factor here, we know Muslim men have got problems with women and infidels etc..." He made a sweeping, negative statement about a large group of people. What do you want to call that?
Racist comment that
Technically not as muslims are not a race
Okay…I’ll explain this once.
Discriminating against Muslims is what is called “indirect racial discrimination” because Muslims in this country are majority of a national origin (which counts under race in the relevant legislation) from South Asian countries. Just as “no Catholics” was not very well coded discrimination against Irish people in the past.
A provision, criteria, or practice that discriminates against Muslims will, statistically, be harder for someone of South Asian decent to overcome and most that employ one know that. So yes, it is racist.
Would the same argument not lead to the conclusion that EU free movement is indirect racial discrimination?
I could answer that but I’ve searched through my wallet and by bag, and I’ll look down the back of the sofa when I’m home, but I’m sorry, I really don’t think I have any fucks left to give.
Riot police in attendance at a hotel housing illegal migrants in Manchester after "demonstations" by Football Fan types broke out.
It comes back to your point yesterday about the UK becoming increasingly sectarian. For the benefit of the doubt, as some were throwing around accusations of racism after the last thread, I a) don't think this is a good thing and b) don't support the "football fan types" who are going round causing bother, either.
It's not though. Only in the hyper-real world of social media, where everything constantly gets amplified, commonly by accounts based a couple of thousand miles East of here.
PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.
Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.
That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
What? No one in your real world is exercised by the murder of a few kids? It's pretty much the subject the real world is most upset about, in my real world.
Here and twitter are the only place that I have heard it discussed.
I'm astonished. Though I am a parent of children of that age so maybe it resonates more with that demographic. I'd have thought anyone with a family would be rather affected though.
Kamala Harris seems perfectly nice, very smiley. I can't help but question though why given the opportunity of being VP to a waning President, she has failed to distinguish herself to the point of Biden being the preferred candidate until his deficiencies were so glaring they could no longer be denied.
She’s a totally empty suit, something which will soon become apparent once the sycophancy dies down a little.
How do you square the circle of your flag waving for Trump and his flag waving for Putin?
I don't recall Sandpit flag waving for Trump? It's possible to be dubious about the merits of a candidate without supporting that candidates opponent. Especially in an election in which you don't have a vote.
Are there any out and out Trump supporters on PB? I know @HYUFD is at least somewhat supportive, but even the much missed Plato wasn't entirely in his camp.
I was amused by this post as surely the question should have been "Are there any out and out Reform supporters on PB?" The majority of posters here appear to be Rich Remainers: the number of Remainers I know is very small - the vast majority of my family and friends voted Leave. Leon's posts are just designed to wind you up and boy do they succeed - I'm in agreement with him most of the time. A lot of you appear to be very scared of Reform and I can understand why - there is a good chance they will benefit when Labour WWC voters turn away. If Reform starts taking on former Tory Cabinet members then I will never vote for them - with regard to Labour's housing policy a simple "immigrants have to have somewhere to live" works wonders. However the site is still excellent for betting tips and I thank all the posters who contributed to my small wins on Election night. My car sticker is just in the process of being printed "Don't Blame Me - I Voted Reform" Hat-tip Labour 1979
Oh it's scary all right. Right out of a playbook from the 1930s. For Hitler's "It's all the fault of the Jews" you can read across to the EDL's "it's all the fault of the Muslims". A replay of Goebbel's big lie being used to scapegoat a community. And the EDL are performing the role of Hitler's brownshirts, egged on by your Leader Farage. The only solace available is that their complicity in this outbreak of disgusting thuggery is showing Reform and Farage up for what they truly are.
Riot police in attendance at a hotel housing illegal migrants in Manchester after "demonstations" by Football Fan types broke out.
It comes back to your point yesterday about the UK becoming increasingly sectarian. For the benefit of the doubt, as some were throwing around accusations of racism after the last thread, I a) don't think this is a good thing and b) don't support the "football fan types" who are going round causing bother, either.
It's not though. Only in the hyper-real world of social media, where everything constantly gets amplified, commonly by accounts based a couple of thousand miles East of here.
PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.
Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.
That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
What? No one in your real world is exercised by the murder of a few kids? It's pretty much the subject the real world is most upset about, in my real world.
This is the only place I am seeing this being turned into a race war.
People always get understandably upset by mass murder and want vengeance against the murderer. It happened with countless serial killers through history. They don't usually turn it into a ethno-political issue though. The only reason they are doing so, is because the murderer was black. And because dark forces on social media are manipulating and amplifying the divisive narrative.
I see things are a bit lively in whitehall this evening.
Hopefully it will piss down tomorrow evening and nip any more protests in the bud. Last thing we need is an escalation.
No we don't need an escalation, we do need for the people to send a message to the government and police that this is unacceptable and the seemingly blasé nature of the PM in dealing with the fallout of the murders and subsequent anger from him against the idiot rioters is only going to make people more angry. His priorities are clear from where they're standing - he's siding with the child murderer because they think the child murderer is an immigrant Muslim (with no evidence, of course).
Sorry but no, everyone decent should be standing with law and order here.
Which is against the murder, in favour of the Police being given space to do their job, in favour of the law being maintained about protecting the identity of under 18 suspects (see the cutting down every law to get to the devil quote) and against the trouble-makers who are trying to abuse this incident to instil even more violence.
Again, you're missing the point, there's a very large sense building at the moment that the government and police are overseeing a coverup to protect the child killer because of his ethnic background. It's obviously not true but the silence from the police and the government has been deafening and voices from social media or worse are filling that void. You can hope as much as you like for people to be in support of law and order, but the experience of people is that they couldn't rely on law and order to prevent the Rotherham and other child rape gangs and people are seeing parallels between this case and what happened then.
How is there any sense of that building?
What a stinking pile of bovine manure.
The law is the law and the law says not to identify under-18 suspects. Anyone who is claiming cover-up is either thick as pig shit and doesn't grasp the law, or knows it and is being disingenuous.
We have no reason to kowtow to either the thick as pig shit, nor the disingenuous.
And yet the protests and riots about this are expected to get worse over the next few days.
The police fucked up when they ruled out terrorism so quickly, I actually think that's what's kicked this all off.
This is the situation so far - a mass stabbing with three murdered children, a perpetrator caught red handed at the scene with the murder weapon, no details of ethnicity released about said perpetrator by the police and within a few hours terrorism is ruled out but no other motive is given, specifically "we don't have any clue other than to say it's definitely not terrorism" alongside unverified witness reports that he was black or had dark skin colour.
I'm not saying it's a coverup, I can see why people might start to think it is. If the police haven't got any inkling of motive then how can they rule out terrorism, what was with the whole "he's born in Cardiff" stuff all about followed by "to Rwandan parents" in tiny small print.
You can't deny that the communication has been bungled by the police and I would say the politicians. Above all else there's three dead young girls and people are out for blood. It's the first crime we've had like this since probably Dunblane and so far no one is coming out of it very well.
We're probably moving into a new context where the kind of seemingly random violence we see can't easily be categorised as terrorism or not. Our procedures are still stuck in a post-9/11 frame that feels out of date.
A point for the pig shit / disingenuous, if he is of Rwandan descent then, given Rwanda is 90%+ Christian, Why aren't you all out attacking churches?
Rwanda you say? Have they not provided a recent example of inter-ethnic violence that isn’t religiously inspired?
That sort of comment is below PB. If a British 17 year old with Serbian parents committed this, you'd be suggesting it was somehow linked to Srebrenica? Or if a child of Cambodian parents did it there would be some sort of Pol Pot connection?
No, that’s not what I’m saying. The point is that religion isn’t the only faultline that can lead to conflict or motivate violence.
Serbia Ultra Nationalism is on the Prevent list IIRC. There is a weird and nasty sub culture of venerating Arkan - complete with icon like iconography…
What does non icon like iconography look like? Is that just ography?
I thought his interview was a mix of risible and almost pitiful - and old man who’s completely lost it - except this is someone who might still be elected President. In that context it’s contemptible.
Incredibly ironic that only about a month after Biden's disastrous debate performance, it's now the Republicans who find themselves confronted by the problem of what to do with a presidential candidate who is obviously not mentally competent.
Riot police in attendance at a hotel housing illegal migrants in Manchester after "demonstations" by Football Fan types broke out.
It comes back to your point yesterday about the UK becoming increasingly sectarian. For the benefit of the doubt, as some were throwing around accusations of racism after the last thread, I a) don't think this is a good thing and b) don't support the "football fan types" who are going round causing bother, either.
It's not though. Only in the hyper-real world of social media, where everything constantly gets amplified, commonly by accounts based a couple of thousand miles East of here.
PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.
Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.
That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
What? No one in your real world is exercised by the murder of a few kids? It's pretty much the subject the real world is most upset about, in my real world.
Here and twitter are the only place that I have heard it discussed.
I'm astonished. Though I am a parent of children of that age so maybe it resonates more with that demographic. I'd have thought anyone with a family would be rather affected though.
Yes, our nursery WhatsApp chat is still pretty angry. I think when the death of the third girl was announced it was the first time I've seen so many mild mannered middle class people go ape shit and talk about bringing back hanging etc...
Riot police in attendance at a hotel housing illegal migrants in Manchester after "demonstations" by Football Fan types broke out.
It comes back to your point yesterday about the UK becoming increasingly sectarian. For the benefit of the doubt, as some were throwing around accusations of racism after the last thread, I a) don't think this is a good thing and b) don't support the "football fan types" who are going round causing bother, either.
It's not though. Only in the hyper-real world of social media, where everything constantly gets amplified, commonly by accounts based a couple of thousand miles East of here.
PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.
Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.
That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
What? No one in your real world is exercised by the murder of a few kids? It's pretty much the subject the real world is most upset about, in my real world.
Here and twitter are the only place that I have heard it discussed.
I suppose people do live in different bubbles. But that applies to race warriors as much as it does to middle class normies.
I've just added to my Kamala for POTUS position by backing her at 2.4. THe polls have the race neck and neck and with her VP pick still to come and the Dem convention too, she ought to be able to build further on her "Big Mo". I'm hoping she gets to betting parity with Trump soon and then I might lay back some of my position. Trump does seem to making a lot of unforced errors that may play to his base but not to swing voters.
I added this morning at 2.52.
It's shifted quite a bit in just one day. 2.36 now.
Kamala Harris seems perfectly nice, very smiley. I can't help but question though why given the opportunity of being VP to a waning President, she has failed to distinguish herself to the point of Biden being the preferred candidate until his deficiencies were so glaring they could no longer be denied.
She’s a totally empty suit, something which will soon become apparent once the sycophancy dies down a little.
How do you square the circle of your flag waving for Trump and his flag waving for Putin?
I don't recall Sandpit flag waving for Trump? It's possible to be dubious about the merits of a candidate without supporting that candidates opponent. Especially in an election in which you don't have a vote.
Are there any out and out Trump supporters on PB? I know @HYUFD is at least somewhat supportive, but even the much missed Plato wasn't entirely in his camp.
I was amused by this post as surely the question should have been "Are there any out and out Reform supporters on PB?" The majority of posters here appear to be Rich Remainers: the number of Remainers I know is very small - the vast majority of my family and friends voted Leave. Leon's posts are just designed to wind you up and boy do they succeed - I'm in agreement with him most of the time. A lot of you appear to be very scared of Reform and I can understand why - there is a good chance they will benefit when Labour WWC voters turn away. If Reform starts taking on former Tory Cabinet members then I will never vote for them - with regard to Labour's housing policy a simple "immigrants have to have somewhere to live" works wonders. However the site is still excellent for betting tips and I thank all the posters who contributed to my small wins on Election night. My car sticker is just in the process of being printed "Don't Blame Me - I Voted Reform" Hat-tip Labour 1979
There are several Reform supporters on here. 5 or 6. I would say that since the election, now the centre-left has cast the Tories into temporary oblivion, the numbers remaining have changed and a larger proportion of active posters are the Brexiteers, Reform or Tory supporters and MAGA-curious. I certainly post here less since the election.
It's still middle class, of course. But notably more rightward leaning. And even more male. Pretty much 100% male.
Thanks - I think you may be right -only hope the Tories are cast into permanent oblivion.
Kamala Harris seems perfectly nice, very smiley. I can't help but question though why given the opportunity of being VP to a waning President, she has failed to distinguish herself to the point of Biden being the preferred candidate until his deficiencies were so glaring they could no longer be denied.
She’s a totally empty suit, something which will soon become apparent once the sycophancy dies down a little.
How do you square the circle of your flag waving for Trump and his flag waving for Putin?
I don't recall Sandpit flag waving for Trump? It's possible to be dubious about the merits of a candidate without supporting that candidates opponent. Especially in an election in which you don't have a vote.
Are there any out and out Trump supporters on PB? I know @HYUFD is at least somewhat supportive, but even the much missed Plato wasn't entirely in his camp.
I see things are a bit lively in whitehall this evening.
Hopefully it will piss down tomorrow evening and nip any more protests in the bud. Last thing we need is an escalation.
No we don't need an escalation, we do need for the people to send a message to the government and police that this is unacceptable and the seemingly blasé nature of the PM in dealing with the fallout of the murders and subsequent anger from him against the idiot rioters is only going to make people more angry. His priorities are clear from where they're standing - he's siding with the child murderer because they think the child murderer is an immigrant Muslim (with no evidence, of course).
Sorry but no, everyone decent should be standing with law and order here.
Which is against the murder, in favour of the Police being given space to do their job, in favour of the law being maintained about protecting the identity of under 18 suspects (see the cutting down every law to get to the devil quote) and against the trouble-makers who are trying to abuse this incident to instil even more violence.
Again, you're missing the point, there's a very large sense building at the moment that the government and police are overseeing a coverup to protect the child killer because of his ethnic background. It's obviously not true but the silence from the police and the government has been deafening and voices from social media or worse are filling that void. You can hope as much as you like for people to be in support of law and order, but the experience of people is that they couldn't rely on law and order to prevent the Rotherham and other child rape gangs and people are seeing parallels between this case and what happened then.
How is there any sense of that building?
What a stinking pile of bovine manure.
The law is the law and the law says not to identify under-18 suspects. Anyone who is claiming cover-up is either thick as pig shit and doesn't grasp the law, or knows it and is being disingenuous.
We have no reason to kowtow to either the thick as pig shit, nor the disingenuous.
And yet the protests and riots about this are expected to get worse over the next few days.
The police fucked up when they ruled out terrorism so quickly, I actually think that's what's kicked this all off.
This is the situation so far - a mass stabbing with three murdered children, a perpetrator caught red handed at the scene with the murder weapon, no details of ethnicity released about said perpetrator by the police and within a few hours terrorism is ruled out but no other motive is given, specifically "we don't have any clue other than to say it's definitely not terrorism" alongside unverified witness reports that he was black or had dark skin colour.
I'm not saying it's a coverup, I can see why people might start to think it is. If the police haven't got any inkling of motive then how can they rule out terrorism, what was with the whole "he's born in Cardiff" stuff all about followed by "to Rwandan parents" in tiny small print.
You can't deny that the communication has been bungled by the police and I would say the politicians. Above all else there's three dead young girls and people are out for blood. It's the first crime we've had like this since probably Dunblane and so far no one is coming out of it very well.
No, the problem is racists like you pushing lies, and thugs like the EDL wanting a brawl because it's hot.
It just gets very boring hearing "racist" get trotted out so much. Particularly in the absence of any othet argument. And particularly of MaxPB. He's been here about 20 years and I've never heard him say anything I would term racist. I strongly suspect you know almost nothing about him.
I know he said, "Religion may be a big factor here, we know Muslim men have got problems with women and infidels etc..." He made a sweeping, negative statement about a large group of people. What do you want to call that?
Racist comment that
Technically not as muslims are not a race
Okay…I’ll explain this once.
Discriminating against Muslims is what is called “indirect racial discrimination” because Muslims in this country are majority of a national origin (which counts under race in the relevant legislation) from South Asian countries. Just as “no Catholics” was not very well coded discrimination against Irish people in the past.
A provision, criteria, or practice that discriminates against Muslims will, statistically, be harder for someone of South Asian decent to overcome and most that employ one know that. So yes, it is racist.
And in fact the far right transparently use anti-Muslim propaganda as a proxy for racist propaganda, purely for legal reasons.
The first point is a known issue, it's been researched to death and we also have plenty of evidence in this country, I suggest you read Professor Alexis Jay's report on the Rotherham atrocities perpetrated exclusively by Muslim men from Pakistan and Afghanistan. Motivations included placing a lesser value on women and non-Muslims so they didn't believe it was truly immoral to be doing what they were doing.
On the second point, where does it say I support that view?! Or are you one of those deluded people that thinks something written in PB commenta BTL is actually consequential, I'm not pushing anything or any agenda, just trying to write out what I understand to be the motivations behind the rioting and protesting which might help people to put into context why I think "full force of the law" is the wrong approach to take with these idiots.
The actions of some Muslim men do not mean that "Muslim men have got problems" with anything. To jump from the actions of some to condemn all is racism or some other form of bigotry.
You have repeatedly insinuated or just outright claimed that there has been political pressure behind the police's charging decisions in this case, and before that around BBC coverage of other events, etc. You are often pushing conspiracy theories.
You're wrong, it's a known cultural issue and relates to Sharia or religious law which holds the value of women at a fraction of men in the countries where these men (or their fathers) originate from. Denying that it's an issue is what allows scandals like Rotherham to happen for years and get covered up.
We've had multiple cases of political pressure being applied to the police and the media across many issues, the Rotherham scandal and COVID stick out as two significant ones. Pretending that it doesn't happen is delusional.
Quite extraordinary levels of consanguinity too...
Riot police in attendance at a hotel housing illegal migrants in Manchester after "demonstations" by Football Fan types broke out.
It comes back to your point yesterday about the UK becoming increasingly sectarian. For the benefit of the doubt, as some were throwing around accusations of racism after the last thread, I a) don't think this is a good thing and b) don't support the "football fan types" who are going round causing bother, either.
It's not though. Only in the hyper-real world of social media, where everything constantly gets amplified, commonly by accounts based a couple of thousand miles East of here.
PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.
Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.
That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
What? No one in your real world is exercised by the murder of a few kids? It's pretty much the subject the real world is most upset about, in my real world.
Here and twitter are the only place that I have heard it discussed.
I'm astonished. Though I am a parent of children of that age so maybe it resonates more with that demographic. I'd have thought anyone with a family would be rather affected though.
Plenty of us have young families. We're just not committing the convenient non-sequitur of turning this into a race war.
Riot police in attendance at a hotel housing illegal migrants in Manchester after "demonstations" by Football Fan types broke out.
It comes back to your point yesterday about the UK becoming increasingly sectarian. For the benefit of the doubt, as some were throwing around accusations of racism after the last thread, I a) don't think this is a good thing and b) don't support the "football fan types" who are going round causing bother, either.
It's not though. Only in the hyper-real world of social media, where everything constantly gets amplified, commonly by accounts based a couple of thousand miles East of here.
PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.
Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.
That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
What? No one in your real world is exercised by the murder of a few kids? It's pretty much the subject the real world is most upset about, in my real world.
Here and twitter are the only place that I have heard it discussed.
I'm astonished. Though I am a parent of children of that age so maybe it resonates more with that demographic. I'd have thought anyone with a family would be rather affected though.
Yes, our nursery WhatsApp chat is still pretty angry. I think when the death of the third girl was announced it was the first time I've seen so many mild mannered middle class people go ape shit and talk about bringing back hanging etc...
The local parents chat group is approaching supernova.
The funny thing is that, having lived in and around some truly violent countries, it feels… childish. Play anger.
I see things are a bit lively in whitehall this evening.
Hopefully it will piss down tomorrow evening and nip any more protests in the bud. Last thing we need is an escalation.
No we don't need an escalation, we do need for the people to send a message to the government and police that this is unacceptable and the seemingly blasé nature of the PM in dealing with the fallout of the murders and subsequent anger from him against the idiot rioters is only going to make people more angry. His priorities are clear from where they're standing - he's siding with the child murderer because they think the child murderer is an immigrant Muslim (with no evidence, of course).
Sorry but no, everyone decent should be standing with law and order here.
Which is against the murder, in favour of the Police being given space to do their job, in favour of the law being maintained about protecting the identity of under 18 suspects (see the cutting down every law to get to the devil quote) and against the trouble-makers who are trying to abuse this incident to instil even more violence.
Again, you're missing the point, there's a very large sense building at the moment that the government and police are overseeing a coverup to protect the child killer because of his ethnic background. It's obviously not true but the silence from the police and the government has been deafening and voices from social media or worse are filling that void. You can hope as much as you like for people to be in support of law and order, but the experience of people is that they couldn't rely on law and order to prevent the Rotherham and other child rape gangs and people are seeing parallels between this case and what happened then.
How is there any sense of that building?
What a stinking pile of bovine manure.
The law is the law and the law says not to identify under-18 suspects. Anyone who is claiming cover-up is either thick as pig shit and doesn't grasp the law, or knows it and is being disingenuous.
We have no reason to kowtow to either the thick as pig shit, nor the disingenuous.
And yet the protests and riots about this are expected to get worse over the next few days.
The police fucked up when they ruled out terrorism so quickly, I actually think that's what's kicked this all off.
This is the situation so far - a mass stabbing with three murdered children, a perpetrator caught red handed at the scene with the murder weapon, no details of ethnicity released about said perpetrator by the police and within a few hours terrorism is ruled out but no other motive is given, specifically "we don't have any clue other than to say it's definitely not terrorism" alongside unverified witness reports that he was black or had dark skin colour.
I'm not saying it's a coverup, I can see why people might start to think it is. If the police haven't got any inkling of motive then how can they rule out terrorism, what was with the whole "he's born in Cardiff" stuff all about followed by "to Rwandan parents" in tiny small print.
You can't deny that the communication has been bungled by the police and I would say the politicians. Above all else there's three dead young girls and people are out for blood. It's the first crime we've had like this since probably Dunblane and so far no one is coming out of it very well.
No, the problem is racists like you pushing lies, and thugs like the EDL wanting a brawl because it's hot.
It just gets very boring hearing "racist" get trotted out so much. Particularly in the absence of any othet argument. And particularly of MaxPB. He's been here about 20 years and I've never heard him say anything I would term racist. I strongly suspect you know almost nothing about him.
I know he said, "Religion may be a big factor here, we know Muslim men have got problems with women and infidels etc..." He made a sweeping, negative statement about a large group of people. What do you want to call that?
Racist comment that
Technically not as muslims are not a race
Okay…I’ll explain this once.
Discriminating against Muslims is what is called “indirect racial discrimination” because Muslims in this country are majority of a national origin (which counts under race in the relevant legislation) from South Asian countries. Just as “no Catholics” was not very well coded discrimination against Irish people in the past.
A provision, criteria, or practice that discriminates against Muslims will, statistically, be harder for someone of South Asian decent to overcome and most that employ one know that. So yes, it is racist.
Would the same argument not lead to the conclusion that EU free movement is indirect racial discrimination?
I could answer that but I’ve searched through my wallet and by bag, and I’ll look down the back of the sofa when I’m home, but I’m sorry, I really don’t think I have any fucks left to give.
There are more important matters:
Is the line diverging towards Stoke on Trent at Colwich Junction a
I see things are a bit lively in whitehall this evening.
Hopefully it will piss down tomorrow evening and nip any more protests in the bud. Last thing we need is an escalation.
No we don't need an escalation, we do need for the people to send a message to the government and police that this is unacceptable and the seemingly blasé nature of the PM in dealing with the fallout of the murders and subsequent anger from him against the idiot rioters is only going to make people more angry. His priorities are clear from where they're standing - he's siding with the child murderer because they think the child murderer is an immigrant Muslim (with no evidence, of course).
Sorry but no, everyone decent should be standing with law and order here.
Which is against the murder, in favour of the Police being given space to do their job, in favour of the law being maintained about protecting the identity of under 18 suspects (see the cutting down every law to get to the devil quote) and against the trouble-makers who are trying to abuse this incident to instil even more violence.
Again, you're missing the point, there's a very large sense building at the moment that the government and police are overseeing a coverup to protect the child killer because of his ethnic background. It's obviously not true but the silence from the police and the government has been deafening and voices from social media or worse are filling that void. You can hope as much as you like for people to be in support of law and order, but the experience of people is that they couldn't rely on law and order to prevent the Rotherham and other child rape gangs and people are seeing parallels between this case and what happened then.
How is there any sense of that building?
What a stinking pile of bovine manure.
The law is the law and the law says not to identify under-18 suspects. Anyone who is claiming cover-up is either thick as pig shit and doesn't grasp the law, or knows it and is being disingenuous.
We have no reason to kowtow to either the thick as pig shit, nor the disingenuous.
And yet the protests and riots about this are expected to get worse over the next few days.
The police fucked up when they ruled out terrorism so quickly, I actually think that's what's kicked this all off.
This is the situation so far - a mass stabbing with three murdered children, a perpetrator caught red handed at the scene with the murder weapon, no details of ethnicity released about said perpetrator by the police and within a few hours terrorism is ruled out but no other motive is given, specifically "we don't have any clue other than to say it's definitely not terrorism" alongside unverified witness reports that he was black or had dark skin colour.
I'm not saying it's a coverup, I can see why people might start to think it is. If the police haven't got any inkling of motive then how can they rule out terrorism, what was with the whole "he's born in Cardiff" stuff all about followed by "to Rwandan parents" in tiny small print.
You can't deny that the communication has been bungled by the police and I would say the politicians. Above all else there's three dead young girls and people are out for blood. It's the first crime we've had like this since probably Dunblane and so far no one is coming out of it very well.
We're probably moving into a new context where the kind of seemingly random violence we see can't easily be categorised as terrorism or not. Our procedures are still stuck in a post-9/11 frame that feels out of date.
A point for the pig shit / disingenuous, if he is of Rwandan descent then, given Rwanda is 90%+ Christian, Why aren't you all out attacking churches?
Rwanda you say? Have they not provided a recent example of inter-ethnic violence that isn’t religiously inspired?
That sort of comment is below PB. If a British 17 year old with Serbian parents committed this, you'd be suggesting it was somehow linked to Srebrenica? Or if a child of Cambodian parents did it there would be some sort of Pol Pot connection?
No, that’s not what I’m saying. The point is that religion isn’t the only faultline that can lead to conflict or motivate violence.
Serbia Ultra Nationalism is on the Prevent list IIRC. There is a weird and nasty sub culture of venerating Arkan - complete with icon like iconography…
What does non icon like iconography look like? Is that just ography?
That reminds me of the late Victor Lewis Smiths report of watching a porn video with the screen broken and only the sound working.
He came to the conclusion that Pornography without a Pornograph was fairly pointless.
Riot police in attendance at a hotel housing illegal migrants in Manchester after "demonstations" by Football Fan types broke out.
It comes back to your point yesterday about the UK becoming increasingly sectarian. For the benefit of the doubt, as some were throwing around accusations of racism after the last thread, I a) don't think this is a good thing and b) don't support the "football fan types" who are going round causing bother, either.
It's not though. Only in the hyper-real world of social media, where everything constantly gets amplified, commonly by accounts based a couple of thousand miles East of here.
PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.
Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.
That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
What? No one in your real world is exercised by the murder of a few kids? It's pretty much the subject the real world is most upset about, in my real world.
Here and twitter are the only place that I have heard it discussed.
I'm astonished. Though I am a parent of children of that age so maybe it resonates more with that demographic. I'd have thought anyone with a family would be rather affected though.
Yes, our nursery WhatsApp chat is still pretty angry. I think when the death of the third girl was announced it was the first time I've seen so many mild mannered middle class people go ape shit and talk about bringing back hanging etc...
But are they talking about Islam and sharia law, or race war? I assume not. They didn't after the moors murderers or the Wests. That's where this place seems to be non-sequiting.
Riot police in attendance at a hotel housing illegal migrants in Manchester after "demonstations" by Football Fan types broke out.
It comes back to your point yesterday about the UK becoming increasingly sectarian. For the benefit of the doubt, as some were throwing around accusations of racism after the last thread, I a) don't think this is a good thing and b) don't support the "football fan types" who are going round causing bother, either.
It's not though. Only in the hyper-real world of social media, where everything constantly gets amplified, commonly by accounts based a couple of thousand miles East of here.
PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.
Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.
That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
What? No one in your real world is exercised by the murder of a few kids? It's pretty much the subject the real world is most upset about, in my real world.
This is the only place I am seeing this being turned into a race war.
People always get understandably upset by mass murder and want vengeance against the murderer. It happened with countless serial killers through history. They don't usually turn it into a ethno-political issue though. The only reason they are doing so, is because the murderer was black. And because dark forces on social media are manipulating and amplifying the divisive narrative.
They are upset because it's to do with immigration - nobody appears to be listening - remember Brexit
I've just added to my Kamala for POTUS position by backing her at 2.4. THe polls have the race neck and neck and with her VP pick still to come and the Dem convention too, she ought to be able to build further on her "Big Mo". I'm hoping she gets to betting parity with Trump soon and then I might lay back some of my position. Trump does seem to making a lot of unforced errors that may play to his base but not to swing voters.
Major moment to report - with Harris shortening to her current price the MTM of my book has gone small positive. It was 4 digits negative post assassination attempt and before Biden pulled out.
@ProjectLincoln "Today we saw a terribly panicked Trump run off stage at #NABJ. His staff had to pull him after they screwed up again by putting him on stage facing his worst nightmare: women of color. Trump's running scared and now should LaCivita and Wiles. You know Trump's going to be asking around for names after this. And between picking JD Vance - who clearly wasn't vetted, running the entire race against a guy who dropped out, attacking the rights of women, and embracing casual racism, this team couldn't manage a cocktail party." - LP Chief of Staff @Ryan_N_Wiggins
I have to agree with this - it's not a good campaign politically - losing Biden really seems to have rattled them. I don’t think it's really in Trump's personality to let a professional spin doctor work on his image and make day to day decisions. That's a problem. See also his hopeless legal representation.
Riot police in attendance at a hotel housing illegal migrants in Manchester after "demonstations" by Football Fan types broke out.
It comes back to your point yesterday about the UK becoming increasingly sectarian. For the benefit of the doubt, as some were throwing around accusations of racism after the last thread, I a) don't think this is a good thing and b) don't support the "football fan types" who are going round causing bother, either.
It's not though. Only in the hyper-real world of social media, where everything constantly gets amplified, commonly by accounts based a couple of thousand miles East of here.
PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.
Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.
That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
What? No one in your real world is exercised by the murder of a few kids? It's pretty much the subject the real world is most upset about, in my real world.
This is the only place I am seeing this being turned into a race war.
People always get understandably upset by mass murder and want vengeance against the murderer. It happened with countless serial killers through history. They don't usually turn it into a ethno-political issue though. The only reason they are doing so, is because the murderer was black. And because dark forces on social media are manipulating and amplifying the divisive narrative.
They are upset because it's to do with immigration - nobody appears to be listening - remember Brexit
That someone born in Cardiff committed a crime has √(fuck all) to do with immigration.
Tomorrow I go to St Peterborough to admire Cathedral. Da.
Back in October 2022, I went to Peterborough to do the Nene Valley Railway.
Fun fact. Many years ago I once had an impromptu PB meet up with @Verulamius when I was sat on a train to work reading PB on my mobile and realised the chap sat next to me also was reading PB.
We haven't had a PB meet up for far too long. I really enjoyed the one I went to in Manchester.
Last one I went to was in London, 2017.
Sunil. Time to upgrade your 'Starmer /Calmer logo. Why not one for 'Kamala'? You've done some good ones in your time
To be fair there's not as many words that rhyme with Kamala but if anyone can do it, @Sunil_Prasannan can
I don't wish to give too much away, but Mrs Northern_Al's name rhymes pretty much, and she's quite a fan. However, Pamela for Kamala is yet to go viral.
on Cooper @joncoopertweets MUST WATCH: This clip shows what was probably Trump’s single most unhinged, outrageous, rude and openly racist exchange with a reporter at the National Association of Black Journalists conference. 👀
Be bloody ironic if social media does for him in the end.
I linked to that down thread. I really think Trump is losing the plot and simply doesn't know how to get at Harris in the way that he has got at most of his opponents over the last 10 years. He hasn't even got a half decent nickname or catch phrase for her. He looks a bit bewildered how the race has changed.
The basic point with Trump is that his electoral record outside GOP primaries is actually pretty poor. Lost the popular vote twice - and beat Hillary in the electoral college thanks to her being an unpopular known quantity with her own scandals (trumped up or otherwise) who ran a badly misjudged campaign. Underperformed in mid-terms should have done far better in, in part due to backing crazy candidates who were slavishly loyal to him. And of course lost to Biden - who was the right candidate in 2020 over other senior Democrats like Bernie and Warren - but was hardly at the peak of his powers even then.
He's been at the most popular he's ever been, personally, in this cycle, and that's by and large because he's been much less the focus until now due to worries about Biden's health/capability. Put forward a candidate who forces him to campaign and poke him, and he's back where he was in 2020 or 2016 and flailing all over the place again. Now of course he won in 2016 despite numerous horrorshows, so one wouldn't write him off - it's such a narrow group of voters who decide and multiple factors could swing it that might not hinge on him being awful. But he is a bad candidate who is very beatable if the Dems don't do anything stupid (hardly a given).
I see things are a bit lively in whitehall this evening.
Hopefully it will piss down tomorrow evening and nip any more protests in the bud. Last thing we need is an escalation.
No we don't need an escalation, we do need for the people to send a message to the government and police that this is unacceptable and the seemingly blasé nature of the PM in dealing with the fallout of the murders and subsequent anger from him against the idiot rioters is only going to make people more angry. His priorities are clear from where they're standing - he's siding with the child murderer because they think the child murderer is an immigrant Muslim (with no evidence, of course).
Sorry but no, everyone decent should be standing with law and order here.
Which is against the murder, in favour of the Police being given space to do their job, in favour of the law being maintained about protecting the identity of under 18 suspects (see the cutting down every law to get to the devil quote) and against the trouble-makers who are trying to abuse this incident to instil even more violence.
Again, you're missing the point, there's a very large sense building at the moment that the government and police are overseeing a coverup to protect the child killer because of his ethnic background. It's obviously not true but the silence from the police and the government has been deafening and voices from social media or worse are filling that void. You can hope as much as you like for people to be in support of law and order, but the experience of people is that they couldn't rely on law and order to prevent the Rotherham and other child rape gangs and people are seeing parallels between this case and what happened then.
How is there any sense of that building?
What a stinking pile of bovine manure.
The law is the law and the law says not to identify under-18 suspects. Anyone who is claiming cover-up is either thick as pig shit and doesn't grasp the law, or knows it and is being disingenuous.
We have no reason to kowtow to either the thick as pig shit, nor the disingenuous.
And yet the protests and riots about this are expected to get worse over the next few days.
The police fucked up when they ruled out terrorism so quickly, I actually think that's what's kicked this all off.
This is the situation so far - a mass stabbing with three murdered children, a perpetrator caught red handed at the scene with the murder weapon, no details of ethnicity released about said perpetrator by the police and within a few hours terrorism is ruled out but no other motive is given, specifically "we don't have any clue other than to say it's definitely not terrorism" alongside unverified witness reports that he was black or had dark skin colour.
I'm not saying it's a coverup, I can see why people might start to think it is. If the police haven't got any inkling of motive then how can they rule out terrorism, what was with the whole "he's born in Cardiff" stuff all about followed by "to Rwandan parents" in tiny small print.
You can't deny that the communication has been bungled by the police and I would say the politicians. Above all else there's three dead young girls and people are out for blood. It's the first crime we've had like this since probably Dunblane and so far no one is coming out of it very well.
No, the problem is racists like you pushing lies, and thugs like the EDL wanting a brawl because it's hot.
It just gets very boring hearing "racist" get trotted out so much. Particularly in the absence of any othet argument. And particularly of MaxPB. He's been here about 20 years and I've never heard him say anything I would term racist. I strongly suspect you know almost nothing about him.
I know he said, "Religion may be a big factor here, we know Muslim men have got problems with women and infidels etc..." He made a sweeping, negative statement about a large group of people. What do you want to call that?
The last event in this country comparable with this - apparently indiscriminate mass murder of children - was motivated by Islam. For pretty much the reason Max says. It's not surprising people might speculate that this is a repeat. We're used to the pattern. We're used to the way these things are reported. We're used to the way "white" is specified if possible. Though I doubt anyone had Rwanda on their bingo card. I'd add that Islam is a religion, not a race, though this is a little hairsplitty.
Eh? Wasn't the last event comparable to this (indiscriminate mass murder of children) Dunblane?
I was thinking of the Manchester bombing in 2017ish.
Ah yes, I take your point whilst noting that this was by its nature a very different tragedy.
So in the slow pool where no World Records have been broken
Swimmer from China just breaks the 100m Freestyle World Record by 0.4s
Wins by a body length in the blue ribband sprint event
Incredible swim
Yep, 19 years old. Amazing. Over shadowed by Marchand of course but the 100m freestyle is the blue riband.
The swimming has been great.
It's all been great since that risible opening ceremony ended. I am so pleased that the Parisians and French are getting so much pleasure out of their Olympics in the same way we did in 2012. The Brits are doing pretty well too.
Riot police in attendance at a hotel housing illegal migrants in Manchester after "demonstations" by Football Fan types broke out.
It comes back to your point yesterday about the UK becoming increasingly sectarian. For the benefit of the doubt, as some were throwing around accusations of racism after the last thread, I a) don't think this is a good thing and b) don't support the "football fan types" who are going round causing bother, either.
It's not though. Only in the hyper-real world of social media, where everything constantly gets amplified, commonly by accounts based a couple of thousand miles East of here.
PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.
Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.
That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
What? No one in your real world is exercised by the murder of a few kids? It's pretty much the subject the real world is most upset about, in my real world.
This is the only place I am seeing this being turned into a race war.
People always get understandably upset by mass murder and want vengeance against the murderer. It happened with countless serial killers through history. They don't usually turn it into a ethno-political issue though. The only reason they are doing so, is because the murderer was black. And because dark forces on social media are manipulating and amplifying the divisive narrative.
It's because theŕe is so much mystery about the motive. It's just such a weirdly purposeless crime Could be incel - but incels usually target older girls. Could be random madman - but seemed to be carefully planned, which random madmen tend to be bad at. Could be Islam - but Rwanda is pretty light on Muslims. So of course there is speculation. As others have pointed out, the identity of the individual is protected as he's under 18. So we'll just have to wait. The weird language and choices of emphasis of those in charge aren't really helping though. It's not being very well poloticked.
This is why it's good Britain is not normally a hot country
If it were, presumably the rioting impulse would adapt accordingly though.
There have been some interesting studies of riots and weather. The correlation is pretty strong. Especially with high humidity. I notice a more aggressive attitude in drivers in hot weather - more beeps and flashes, more wanker signs, more sudden pulling out of lane, although I wonder if that is more muted since most cars got a/c as standard.
A mix of inchoate anger among ordinary folk, and a few bad actors trying to stir up something ugly, perhaps ?
Has it reached the shoe shopping stage?
Incidentally, I was appalled by that machete fight I saw yesterday. No swordsmanship - terrible stance, no guard position, no parrying. This is exactly the kind of area where we should inculcate Proper British Values.
What would the militia who did the Peterloo massacre say? Put on a charge and give them 100 hours of sabre drill…
A mix of inchoate anger among ordinary folk, and a few bad actors trying to stir up something ugly, perhaps ?
Rioting is commoner in hot weather. The Tommy Robinson lot have been agitating for a while, before this stabbing. Social media has become more toxic with Musk crippling moderation on Twitter. This led to lies being spread, predominantly in Twitter, deliberately or unknowingly that linked the stabbing to a Muslim name. I’d say the blame mostly lies with bad actors.
Now some, including here, feel that the most important reaction to a tragic event that involved, as far as we know, 0 Muslims is to make sweeping statements about Muslims being a problem.
So in the slow pool where no World Records have been broken
Swimmer from China just breaks the 100m Freestyle World Record by 0.4s
Wins by a body length in the blue ribband sprint event
Incredible swim
Yep, 19 years old. Amazing. Over shadowed by Marchand of course but the 100m freestyle is the blue riband.
The swimming has been great.
It's all been great since that risible opening ceremony ended. I am so pleased that the Parisians and French are getting so much pleasure out of their Olympics in the same way we did in 2012. The Brits are doing pretty well too.
The accounts I read suggest the French loved their opening ceremony.
Riot police in attendance at a hotel housing illegal migrants in Manchester after "demonstations" by Football Fan types broke out.
It comes back to your point yesterday about the UK becoming increasingly sectarian. For the benefit of the doubt, as some were throwing around accusations of racism after the last thread, I a) don't think this is a good thing and b) don't support the "football fan types" who are going round causing bother, either.
It's not though. Only in the hyper-real world of social media, where everything constantly gets amplified, commonly by accounts based a couple of thousand miles East of here.
PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.
Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.
That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
What? No one in your real world is exercised by the murder of a few kids? It's pretty much the subject the real world is most upset about, in my real world.
Here and twitter are the only place that I have heard it discussed.
I'm astonished. Though I am a parent of children of that age so maybe it resonates more with that demographic. I'd have thought anyone with a family would be rather affected though.
Yes, our nursery WhatsApp chat is still pretty angry. I think when the death of the third girl was announced it was the first time I've seen so many mild mannered middle class people go ape shit and talk about bringing back hanging etc...
But are they talking about Islam and sharia law, or race war? I assume not. They didn't after the moors murderers or the Wests. That's where this place seems to be non-sequiting.
No of course not, but PB has always been a pretty good place to kick around ideas that may not necessarily get a hearing anywhere else. The dissection of the race issue on here is probably a more eloquent reflection of what's actually happening in private EDL chats and I don't see anyone actually supporting that point of view either. I brought it up yesterday because I think the poor government communication on this is leading to race riots and as someone who isn't white I'm not overly enamoured with the prospect, I guess I could get my wife to go out and do all the errands but she's Jewish so the other idiots on the streets might not like her very much either.
I thought his interview was a mix of risible and almost pitiful - and old man who’s completely lost it - except this is someone who might still be elected President. In that context it’s contemptible.
Incredibly ironic that only about a month after Biden's disastrous debate performance, it's now the Republicans who find themselves confronted by the problem of what to do with a presidential candidate who is obviously not mentally competent.
Except in Trump’s case it’s compounded by his mix of misogyny and racism.
Riot police in attendance at a hotel housing illegal migrants in Manchester after "demonstations" by Football Fan types broke out.
It comes back to your point yesterday about the UK becoming increasingly sectarian. For the benefit of the doubt, as some were throwing around accusations of racism after the last thread, I a) don't think this is a good thing and b) don't support the "football fan types" who are going round causing bother, either.
It's not though. Only in the hyper-real world of social media, where everything constantly gets amplified, commonly by accounts based a couple of thousand miles East of here.
PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.
Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.
That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
What? No one in your real world is exercised by the murder of a few kids? It's pretty much the subject the real world is most upset about, in my real world.
This is the only place I am seeing this being turned into a race war.
People always get understandably upset by mass murder and want vengeance against the murderer. It happened with countless serial killers through history. They don't usually turn it into a ethno-political issue though. The only reason they are doing so, is because the murderer was black. And because dark forces on social media are manipulating and amplifying the divisive narrative.
They are upset because it's to do with immigration - nobody appears to be listening - remember Brexit
That someone born in Cardiff committed a crime has √(fuck all) to do with immigration.
Well, clearly that's not the case either in perception or reality.
Tomorrow I go to St Peterborough to admire Cathedral. Da.
Back in October 2022, I went to Peterborough to do the Nene Valley Railway.
Fun fact. Many years ago I once had an impromptu PB meet up with @Verulamius when I was sat on a train to work reading PB on my mobile and realised the chap sat next to me also was reading PB.
We haven't had a PB meet up for far too long. I really enjoyed the one I went to in Manchester.
Last one I went to was in London, 2017.
Sunil. Time to upgrade your 'Starmer /Calmer logo. Why not one for 'Kamala'? You've done some good ones in your time
To be fair there's not as many words that rhyme with Kamala but if anyone can do it, @Sunil_Prasannan can
I don't wish to give too much away, but Mrs Northern_Al's name rhymes pretty much, and she's quite a fan. However, Pamela for Kamala is yet to go viral.
Pam-el-la does not rhyme with Kammer-la 😃
I've read that several times and it still seems to rhyme to me.
Riot police in attendance at a hotel housing illegal migrants in Manchester after "demonstations" by Football Fan types broke out.
It comes back to your point yesterday about the UK becoming increasingly sectarian. For the benefit of the doubt, as some were throwing around accusations of racism after the last thread, I a) don't think this is a good thing and b) don't support the "football fan types" who are going round causing bother, either.
It's not though. Only in the hyper-real world of social media, where everything constantly gets amplified, commonly by accounts based a couple of thousand miles East of here.
PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.
Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.
That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
What? No one in your real world is exercised by the murder of a few kids? It's pretty much the subject the real world is most upset about, in my real world.
This is the only place I am seeing this being turned into a race war.
People always get understandably upset by mass murder and want vengeance against the murderer. It happened with countless serial killers through history. They don't usually turn it into a ethno-political issue though. The only reason they are doing so, is because the murderer was black. And because dark forces on social media are manipulating and amplifying the divisive narrative.
They are upset because it's to do with immigration - nobody appears to be listening - remember Brexit
Oh god, you mean if we don't pander to racist drivel they'll go and vote for something really stupid again?
@ProjectLincoln "Today we saw a terribly panicked Trump run off stage at #NABJ. His staff had to pull him after they screwed up again by putting him on stage facing his worst nightmare: women of color. Trump's running scared and now should LaCivita and Wiles. You know Trump's going to be asking around for names after this. And between picking JD Vance - who clearly wasn't vetted, running the entire race against a guy who dropped out, attacking the rights of women, and embracing casual racism, this team couldn't manage a cocktail party." - LP Chief of Staff @Ryan_N_Wiggins
I have to agree with this - it's not a good campaign politically - losing Biden really seems to have rattled them. I don’t think it's really in Trump's personality to let a professional spin doctor work on his image and make day to day decisions. That's a problem. See also his hopeless legal representation.
I suspect over the next couple of months he'll settle and will start to gain back momentum. Harris is still in honeymoon. She and the Democrats really need to get as much of a swing now as possible, so they have a bit of a lead before the tide turns again.
Trying to think of an equivalent here and the closest I can get is actually 2019. Very unpopular and tired incumbent, opposition leader who is disliked but enough are prepared to vote for that they enjoy a small but clear polling lead. Then a change in leadership and injection of energy, and at the same time the shortcomings of the opposition leader start looking more stark and less forgivable and his appeal starts to unravel.
I've had to stop myself from commenting on here, these last couple of nights. I just think - how would this be read by a parent of one of the kids who were murdered, or just about escaped?
It is their tragedy, first and foremost.
It's too soon. Too raw. Too proximate. This website is too public.
The one political point I will make, is to give credit to JRM (On times radio this morning, iirc). He praised Starmer for his appropriate response.
That was decent of him.
I mean, it's, frankly, expected. But with the MAGA leaning right, you can never count on such decency.
A mix of inchoate anger among ordinary folk, and a few bad actors trying to stir up something ugly, perhaps ?
Rioting is commoner in hot weather. The Tommy Robinson lot have been agitating for a while, before this stabbing. Social media has become more toxic with Musk crippling moderation on Twitter. This led to lies being spread, predominantly in Twitter, deliberately or unknowingly that linked the stabbing to a Muslim name. I’d say the blame mostly lies with bad actors.
Now some, including here, feel that the most important reaction to a tragic event that involved, as far as we know, 0 Muslims is to make sweeping statements about Muslims being a problem.
Indeed.
Islam has many very serious problems, in the same way that Christianity and other belief systems do.
But "Muslims" vary dramatically and are not any one thing.
Thankfully many Muslims, like many Christians, take the worst elements of their religion with a pinch of salt. Which doesn't mean that those fundamentalists who don't are twisting a religion, sadly the bad elements are there in black and white in both texts because these religions are not from the modern era and don't fit modern standards in full.
Trump appears to have said that it doesn't matter that Vance was a shit choice for veep because the no 2 slot doesn't matter.
Why is Vance's reputation suddenly in free fall? A few weeks ago he was Golden Boy.
Because people outside the bubble of very rich online right-wing Silicon Valley oddballs who love him have got a look at Vance 2.0 - the version that seems like he came out of the kind of horrendous message board Dominic Cummings would love. As opposed to the Vance of Hillbilly Elegy who was pitching himself as prole whispering working class boy dun good.
What we are underestimating on this forum is also the desire of PB Tories to get in and amongst the Labour party.
Thus, the horrendous comment that Starmer is taking the side of child murderers and Islam, Islam, something. I mean, go to absolute hell won't you.
Our common or garden PB Tory of good character is so riled by losing the election, that they happily ride in bareback on a torrent of fascist misinformation and fantasy just to have a dig at the new government.
Yes, there is a point to be had about how government and police communicate in these circumstances that actually pre-dates this administration, and I'd like to see a clearer playbook as I said yesterday, and some of that is in the points this evening. But you couldn't resist going in knee high with the far right stuff as well.
Acyn @Acyn · 1h Jessica: My reaction is it was an complete absolute dumpster fire for the former president, I don't feel the need to give him any credit for showing up there because he came with a terrible attitude
Riot police in attendance at a hotel housing illegal migrants in Manchester after "demonstations" by Football Fan types broke out.
It comes back to your point yesterday about the UK becoming increasingly sectarian. For the benefit of the doubt, as some were throwing around accusations of racism after the last thread, I a) don't think this is a good thing and b) don't support the "football fan types" who are going round causing bother, either.
It's not though. Only in the hyper-real world of social media, where everything constantly gets amplified, commonly by accounts based a couple of thousand miles East of here.
PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.
Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.
That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
What? No one in your real world is exercised by the murder of a few kids? It's pretty much the subject the real world is most upset about, in my real world.
Here and twitter are the only place that I have heard it discussed.
I'm astonished. Though I am a parent of children of that age so maybe it resonates more with that demographic. I'd have thought anyone with a family would be rather affected though.
Yes, our nursery WhatsApp chat is still pretty angry. I think when the death of the third girl was announced it was the first time I've seen so many mild mannered middle class people go ape shit and talk about bringing back hanging etc...
But are they talking about Islam and sharia law, or race war? I assume not. They didn't after the moors murderers or the Wests. That's where this place seems to be non-sequiting.
No of course not, but PB has always been a pretty good place to kick around ideas that may not necessarily get a hearing anywhere else. The dissection of the race issue on here is probably a more eloquent reflection of what's actually happening in private EDL chats and I don't see anyone actually supporting that point of view either. I brought it up yesterday because I think the poor government communication on this is leading to race riots and as someone who isn't white I'm not overly enamoured with the prospect, I guess I could get my wife to go out and do all the errands but she's Jewish so the other idiots on the streets might not like her very much either.
The same brain dead comms game will produce the same result every time - an open gate for the conspiracy theorists and the violent scum following in their wake.
Riot police in attendance at a hotel housing illegal migrants in Manchester after "demonstations" by Football Fan types broke out.
It comes back to your point yesterday about the UK becoming increasingly sectarian. For the benefit of the doubt, as some were throwing around accusations of racism after the last thread, I a) don't think this is a good thing and b) don't support the "football fan types" who are going round causing bother, either.
It's not though. Only in the hyper-real world of social media, where everything constantly gets amplified, commonly by accounts based a couple of thousand miles East of here.
PB is resolutely middle class and misses out on a lot of what the hoi polloi are saying. My ex, god love her, was resolutely working class and I follow many of her friends on socials. It is a window into a different world. People are *hopping mad* about this at the minute. I've never seen 'that type' of voter so angry.
PB is way more exercised by this than anywhere else I've come across.
Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.
That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
What? No one in your real world is exercised by the murder of a few kids? It's pretty much the subject the real world is most upset about, in my real world.
Here and twitter are the only place that I have heard it discussed.
I'm astonished. Though I am a parent of children of that age so maybe it resonates more with that demographic. I'd have thought anyone with a family would be rather affected though.
Yes, our nursery WhatsApp chat is still pretty angry. I think when the death of the third girl was announced it was the first time I've seen so many mild mannered middle class people go ape shit and talk about bringing back hanging etc...
But are they talking about Islam and sharia law, or race war? I assume not. They didn't after the moors murderers or the Wests. That's where this place seems to be non-sequiting.
Well no, the middle classes won't, in polite company. They have to know you pretty well before they'ĺl admit to unfashionable views that working class people might have. It's interesting (in a general sense - been to neither this week) the contrasting views I hear expressed by other parents on my daughter's sports teams. You hear views expressed by the football parents that you wouldn't at the çricket club.
Comments
As the suspect has an older brother also born in the UK, it is very possible that the parents arrived here fleeing genocide.
This one worked for Obama as well, but no one used it afaik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HhA0Cghr4k
SSI - Surprise, surprise!
Interesting though, that the Victor Orban of Tallahassee, Gov. Ron DeSantis has strongly criticized Vincent Maduro for (alleged or rather obvious) election rigging, putting the blame squarely on . . . wait for it . . . Joe Biden.
It's a safe country.
We've got legislation to prove it.
Yes people always get angry with mass murderers. You see them shouting at them on the steps of court, and calling for the death penalty. They are a small group but noisy. However, they don't usually make the leap between that and condemning entire groups in society.
That's new. Why? Because they are being manipulated, by dangerous forces, largely on social media and deliberately amplified by Russian troll accounts. But not just Russians, MAGA Americans too, who have been infected by the cult and have access to Anglo Saxon news. Nobody should be indulging this kind of hideous grief exploitation.
The majority of posters here appear to be Rich Remainers: the number of Remainers I know is very small - the vast majority of my family and friends voted Leave.
Leon's posts are just designed to wind you up and boy do they succeed - I'm in agreement with him most of the time.
A lot of you appear to be very scared of Reform and I can understand why - there is a good chance they will benefit when Labour WWC voters turn away.
If Reform starts taking on former Tory Cabinet members then I will never vote for them - with regard to Labour's housing policy a simple "immigrants have to have somewhere to live" works wonders.
However the site is still excellent for betting tips and I thank all the posters who contributed to my small wins on Election night.
My car sticker is just in the process of being printed
"Don't Blame Me - I Voted Reform"
Hat-tip Labour 1979
Though I doubt anyone had Rwanda on their bingo card.
I'd add that Islam is a religion, not a race, though this is a little hairsplitty.
Its why Brexit was such a shock to them and I made £120 at six to one the day before.
While the vast majority don't identify with or support football thug types either (quite the opposite), they are as quietly angry about this as the football thugs are noisily angry.
"Today we saw a terribly panicked Trump run off stage at #NABJ. His staff had to pull him after they screwed up again by putting him on stage facing his worst nightmare: women of color. Trump's running scared and now should LaCivita and Wiles. You know Trump's going to be asking around for names after this. And between picking JD Vance - who clearly wasn't vetted, running the entire race against a guy who dropped out, attacking the rights of women, and embracing casual racism, this team couldn't manage a cocktail party." - LP Chief of Staff
@Ryan_N_Wiggins
Discriminating against Muslims is what is called “indirect racial discrimination” because Muslims in this country are majority of a national origin (which counts under race in the relevant legislation) from South Asian countries. Just as “no Catholics” was not very well coded discrimination against Irish people in the past.
A provision, criteria, or practice that discriminates against Muslims will, statistically, be harder for someone of South Asian decent to overcome and most that employ one know that. So yes, it is racist.
You have repeatedly insinuated or just outright claimed that there has been political pressure behind the police's charging decisions in this case, and before that around BBC coverage of other events, etc. You are often pushing conspiracy theories.
JD Vance is thinking, "Hmm, maybe he is the one dragging down the ticket."
https://x.com/JamesFallows/status/1818714463786148290
I thought his interview was a mix of risible and almost pitiful - and old man who’s completely lost it - except this is someone who might still be elected President.
In that context it’s contemptible.
I would say that since the election, now the centre-left has cast the Tories into temporary oblivion, the numbers remaining have changed and a larger proportion of active posters are the Brexiteers, Reform or Tory supporters and MAGA-curious. I certainly post here less since the election.
It's still middle class, of course. But notably more rightward leaning. And even more male. Pretty much 100% male.
Has he tried that?
I will die laughing if she takes him down in this contest. His very very bigly worse nightmare.
I think this might be my favourite music video of all time
Leon Russell And Friends, the Homewood Sessions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bwMqliLXZQ
The big girl with the rolling pin dancing to Honky Tonk Women about halfway through could be the best bit
We've had multiple cases of political pressure being applied to the police and the media across many issues, the Rotherham scandal and COVID stick out as two significant ones. Pretending that it doesn't happen is delusional.
Reading of who is buried there, and thinking about all the Chancellors of Oxford University called Ralph, there's a 11C gent called Ralph the Staller, who sounds like a civil servant.
Plus he has strong views that aint helping the ticket. Those suburban women are loving his 'make rape victims give birth' otherwise they will be childless cat ladies line.
You haven't, if I may say so, answered the question. The question was not, "How do we explain these riots?" The question was whether MaxPB's words were racist. You complained at me trotting out "racist". I've given you the reason. Do you accept my reasoning? Do you not consider those words racist?
Though I am a parent of children of that age so maybe it resonates more with that demographic.
I'd have thought anyone with a family would be rather affected though.
People always get understandably upset by mass murder and want vengeance against the murderer. It happened with countless serial killers through history. They don't usually turn it into a ethno-political issue though. The only reason they are doing so, is because the murderer was black. And because dark forces on social media are manipulating and amplifying the divisive narrative.
Is that just ography?
Karen Attiah
@KarenAttiah
·
1h
Room is boiling with anger and disappointment right now
It's shifted quite a bit in just one day. 2.36 now.
2024 National GE:
Harris 49% (+4)
Trump 45%
.@Civiqs/@dailykos, 1,123 RV, 7/27-30
I would vote for Trump over Harris
https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4903878/#Comment_4903878
The funny thing is that, having lived in and around some truly violent countries, it feels… childish. Play anger.
Is the line diverging towards Stoke on Trent at Colwich Junction a
Branch Line
Secondary Main Line
Subsidiary Line That reminds me of the late Victor Lewis Smiths report of watching a porn video with the screen broken and only the sound working.
He came to the conclusion that Pornography without a Pornograph was fairly pointless.
Polling USA
@USA_Polling
Presidential Polling:
Harris (D): 48%
Trump (R): 41%
Kennedy (I): 5%
Leger / July 29, 2024 / n=786
He's been at the most popular he's ever been, personally, in this cycle, and that's by and large because he's been much less the focus until now due to worries about Biden's health/capability. Put forward a candidate who forces him to campaign and poke him, and he's back where he was in 2020 or 2016 and flailing all over the place again. Now of course he won in 2016 despite numerous horrorshows, so one wouldn't write him off - it's such a narrow group of voters who decide and multiple factors could swing it that might not hinge on him being awful. But he is a bad candidate who is very beatable if the Dems don't do anything stupid (hardly a given).
Could be incel - but incels usually target older girls. Could be random madman - but seemed to be carefully planned, which random madmen tend to be bad at. Could be Islam - but Rwanda is pretty light on Muslims. So of course there is speculation.
As others have pointed out, the identity of the individual is protected as he's under 18. So we'll just have to wait.
The weird language and choices of emphasis of those in charge aren't really helping though. It's not being very well poloticked.
There have been some interesting studies of riots and weather. The correlation is pretty strong. Especially with high humidity. I notice a more aggressive attitude in drivers in hot weather - more beeps and flashes, more wanker signs, more sudden pulling out of lane, although I wonder if that is more muted since most cars got a/c as standard.
Incidentally, I was appalled by that machete fight I saw yesterday. No swordsmanship - terrible stance, no guard position, no parrying. This is exactly the kind of area where we should inculcate Proper British Values.
What would the militia who did the Peterloo massacre say? Put on a charge and give them 100 hours of sabre drill…
Now some, including here, feel that the most important reaction to a tragic event that involved, as far as we know, 0 Muslims is to make sweeping statements about Muslims being a problem.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/27/france-verdict-paris-olympic-opening-ceremony
How long before BF is showing cross-over?
Neil Henderson
@hendopolis
·
5m
MAIL: Russia linked to fake news that sparked Mosque Riot #TomorrowsPapersToday
That's going to help calm Trump's temper tantrums.
50 something 30 something would be joyous.
Trying to think of an equivalent here and the closest I can get is actually 2019. Very unpopular and tired incumbent, opposition leader who is disliked but enough are prepared to vote for that they enjoy a small but clear polling lead. Then a change in leadership and injection of energy, and at the same time the shortcomings of the opposition leader start looking more stark and less forgivable and his appeal starts to unravel.
I've had to stop myself from commenting on here, these last couple of nights. I just think - how would this be read by a parent of one of the kids who were murdered, or just about escaped?
It is their tragedy, first and foremost.
It's too soon. Too raw. Too proximate. This website is too public.
The one political point I will make, is to give credit to JRM (On times radio this morning, iirc). He praised Starmer for his appropriate response.
That was decent of him.
I mean, it's, frankly, expected. But with the MAGA leaning right, you can never count on such decency.
Please don't reply to this. I shan't respond.
RIP.
Islam has many very serious problems, in the same way that Christianity and other belief systems do.
But "Muslims" vary dramatically and are not any one thing.
Thankfully many Muslims, like many Christians, take the worst elements of their religion with a pinch of salt. Which doesn't mean that those fundamentalists who don't are twisting a religion, sadly the bad elements are there in black and white in both texts because these religions are not from the modern era and don't fit modern standards in full.
Thus, the horrendous comment that Starmer is taking the side of child murderers and Islam, Islam, something. I mean, go to absolute hell won't you.
Our common or garden PB Tory of good character is so riled by losing the election, that they happily ride in bareback on a torrent of fascist misinformation and fantasy just to have a dig at the new government.
Yes, there is a point to be had about how government and police communicate in these circumstances that actually pre-dates this administration, and I'd like to see a clearer playbook as I said yesterday, and some of that is in the points this evening. But you couldn't resist going in knee high with the far right stuff as well.
Acyn
@Acyn
·
1h
Jessica: My reaction is it was an complete absolute dumpster fire for the former president, I don't feel the need to give him any credit for showing up there because he came with a terrible attitude
https://x.com/Acyn/status/1818734986817839363
It's interesting (in a general sense - been to neither this week) the contrasting views I hear expressed by other parents on my daughter's sports teams. You hear views expressed by the football parents that you wouldn't at the çricket club.