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Rory Stewart on Newsnight — European Elections may now be unavoidable.0
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It must be every Remainers hope that if Brexit isn't abandoned we leave with no deal. The only way to excise the cancer of these insane Tory Leavers is to show them and their followers once and for all that leaving is a really bad idea which will make us culturally and financially much worse off.0
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Bets are agreed on explicit, objective terms. Not lies written on the side of a busOmnium said:
Honour.AlastairMeeks said:
Why should Remainers seek consensus for a policy they consider mad and malign and whose supporters label them quislings and traitors? They have no interest in making it work and have been given no reason to help.Omnium said:
Yes to the first.AlastairMeeks said:
You are entitled to oppose policies you believe to be malign even if a majority voted for them. And so can Remainers.Omnium said:
What Corbyn does or doesn't do need not detain us.AlastairMeeks said:
Really? I don’t see Jeremy Corbyn working to enable the current government. Nor would Labour supporters expect him to.
And it turns out that this decision was a duff one that its promoters were clueless how to implement. There’s no requirement for others to try to make a nutty idea work.
But yes of course really. I really do believe that if duly elected a Labour government should govern our lands. I would fight for their right to do so even though I might disagree with everything they've ever said. 100% really.
Leavers’ failure to seek to build bridges with Remainers is both baffling and critical to the current mess. It’s as though they wanted Brexit to fail.
Consensus should have been sought on both sides. However its consensus bearing in mind the central fact that there has been a referendum and we decided to leave. (Don't have a referendum ever again obviously)
Leavers haven't failed to deliver Brexit - once the referendum was done it was all of our businesses to do so. WE have failed to deliver Brexit.
You'll pay a losing bet, and I'd suggest you might wish to honour a losing referendum.
The rest is unhelpful invective as you know.0 -
But probably subject to a "confirmatory vote"?HYUFD said:
SNP rumoured to be ready to back 'Common Market 2.0' ie Norway Plus EEA plus CUHYUFD said:'BREXIT’S fate will now be decided by an extraordinary X Factor-style run-off of votes next week – between Theresa May’s deal, a soft Brexit and a second referendum.
Instead of dumping her EU agreement, No10 revealed the PM will instead try to bring it back a FOURTH time next week.'
Bercow to rule on Monday only the top 3 options from last Wednesday ie WA plus CU and EUref2 and EEA and CU will be voted for again in the next round of indicative votes with amendments receiving lower support like No Deal and revoke Art 50 and straight EEA eliminated.
May will then wait until 1 option is left and pit her Deal against it in a final runoff amongst MPs
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit/8751724/commons-vote-x-factor-style-brexit-referendum/
The SNP are keen on second votes for some reason.0 -
"Bring 'em on! I'd prefer a straight fight to all this sneaking around!" - Han Solo, 1977.Streeter said:
Bring it on.HYUFD said:
40-45% back hard Brexit in the polls, more than enough to give the Tories most seats under FPTP even if not a majorityStreeter said:
And out of touch with the majority.HYUFD said:
No, just getting back in touch with its core voteWhisperingOracle said:
If that is true, the Tory party is heading for self-destruction.HYUFD said:Just got back from my local party Association AGM, a strong feeling a 'true Brexiteer' was now needed as the next Tory leader. On a straw poll Raab and Leadsom came a surprising joint top, Boris was second and Hunt third
Delicious, isn’t it?0 -
Nonetheless you are duty bound to honour the democratic process.AlastairMeeks said:
I want to see this malign policy founded on a campaign of xenophobic lies fail. It must fail democratically but fail it should.Omnium said:
Honour.AlastairMeeks said:
Why should Remainers seek consensus for a policy they consider mad and malign and whose supporters label them quislings and traitors? They have no interest in making it work and have been given no reason to help.Omnium said:
Yes to the first.AlastairMeeks said:
You are entitled to oppose policies you believe to be malign even if a majority voted for them. And so can Remainers.Omnium said:
What Corbyn does or doesn't do need not detain us.AlastairMeeks said:
Really? I don’t see Jeremy Corbyn working to enable the current government. Nor would Labour supporters expect him to.
And it turns out that this decision was a duff one that its promoters were clueless how to implement. There’s no requirement for others to try to make a nutty idea work.
But yes of course really. I really do believe that if duly elected a Labour government should govern our lands. I would fight for their right to do so even though I might disagree with everything they've ever said. 100% really.
Leavers’ failure to seek to build bridges with Remainers is both baffling and critical to the current mess. It’s as though they wanted Brexit to fail.
Consensus should have been sought on both sides. However its consensus bearing in mind the central fact that there has been a referendum and we decided to leave. (Don't have a referendum ever again obviously)
Leavers haven't failed to deliver Brexit - once the referendum was done it was all of our businesses to do so. WE have failed to deliver Brexit.
You'll pay a losing bet, and I'd suggest you might wish to honour a losing referendum.
The rest is unhelpful invective as you know.
Leavers have given Remainers absolutely no reason to rethink: quite the contrary.
What you want can't enter into that - your wants in this must by definition have been surrendered when you voted.
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It looks like the start of an ITV supernatural drama from the 70's. "Rory Stewart! Master of Mesmerism! Defeats dark forces from a spirit dimension! Tonight at 7pm! And now, Clapperboard!"HYUFD said:0 -
Not necessarily. Those other countries are not Brexiting. In the abstract it is perfectly possible for the UK to not be a member of the EU. The UK can leave the EU reasonably successfully if it accepts there will be considerable disruption, it will have less trade and therefore a degree less prosperity, fewer prospects etc and a smaller influence over what happens to us because we're no longer helping to set the rules. But as the people were promised no cost and "taking control" (whatever that exactly consists of) the problem is right there. Brexit is relative impoverishment by choice.Luckyguy1983 said:
If Brexit was intrinsically unworkable, every country outside the EU would be a failed state.FF43 said:
That it was a democratic decision is important. That no-one seems able to implement it sensibly makes it a problem. Leavers haven't worked to enable the collective decision either, and I am talking about essentially all Leavers, not just ERG nutcases. People are losing confidence in Brexit. Ultimately responsibility has to lie either with Leavers because it's their project or with Brexit itself because it's intrinsically unworkable.Omnium said:
Well because it's a democracy. Because it was a referendum. It has to count for something.
We're all supposed to work to enable our collective decisions.0 -
120 seconds to go.0
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The Fleetwood Mac doc ?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Did you see the documentary on BBC4 earlier tonight?another_richard said:
Talented 60s rock star and founder of Fleetwood Mac, destroyed his brain with drugs.AndyJS said:
I have no idea what this is about. What's sad about it?isam said:For something sadder than the state of British Politics. Sky Arts showing the Peter Green Man of the World documentary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Green_(musician)
No, but I'll look it up on the iplayer.0 -
And so I have. But I will not be compelled to assist it, I will loudly point out its malign nature and I will stamp the dirt down when this crazy policy is finally interred.Omnium said:
Nonetheless you are duty bound to honour the democratic process.AlastairMeeks said:
I want to see this malign policy founded on a campaign of xenophobic lies fail. It must fail democratically but fail it should.Omnium said:
Honour.AlastairMeeks said:
Why should Remainers seek consensus for a policy they consider mad and malign and whose supporters label them quislings and traitors? They have no interest in making it work and have been given no reason to help.Omnium said:
Yes to the first.AlastairMeeks said:
You are entitled to oppose policies you believe to be malign even if a majority voted for them. And so can Remainers.Omnium said:
What Corbyn does or doesn't do need not detain us.AlastairMeeks said:
Really? I don’t see Jeremy Corbyn working to enable the current government. Nor would Labour supporters expect him to.
And it turns out that this decision was a duff one that its promoters were clueless how to implement. There’s no requirement for others to try to make a nutty idea work.
But yes of course really. I really do believe that if duly elected a Labour government should govern our lands. I would fight for their right to do so even though I might disagree with everything they've ever said. 100% really.
Leavers’ failure to seek to build bridges with Remainers is both baffling and critical to the current mess. It’s as though they wanted Brexit to fail.
Consensus should have been sought on both sides. However its consensus bearing in mind the central fact that there has been a referendum and we decided to leave. (Don't have a referendum ever again obviously)
Leavers haven't failed to deliver Brexit - once the referendum was done it was all of our businesses to do so. WE have failed to deliver Brexit.
You'll pay a losing bet, and I'd suggest you might wish to honour a losing referendum.
The rest is unhelpful invective as you know.
Leavers have given Remainers absolutely no reason to rethink: quite the contrary.
What you want can't enter into that - your wants in this must by definition have been surrendered when you voted.0 -
"Turn the coolant units back on, Mother!"
"OK, no problem!"
"Mothe...er, what? That wasn't in the script!"0 -
BONG
edit: oh wait, there isn't a GE tonight.0 -
Can I be the first to say...
We’ve not left yet.0 -
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Are we there yet?not_on_fire said:Can I be the first to say...
We’ve not left yet.0 -
Happy NON-Independence Day, peeps!
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We have but our politicians don't want that way.viewcode said:
Which begs the question as to why we have not to date found a way to make it work.Luckyguy1983 said:
If Brexit was intrinsically unworkable, every country outside the EU would be a failed state.FF43 said:
That it was a democratic decision is important. That no-one seems able to implement it sensibly makes it a problem. Leavers haven't worked to enable the collective decision either, and I am talking about essentially all Leavers, not just ERG nutcases. People are losing confidence in Brexit. Ultimately responsibility has to lie either with Leavers because it's their project or with Brexit itself because it's intrinsically unworkable.Omnium said:
Well because it's a democracy. Because it was a referendum. It has to count for something.
We're all supposed to work to enable our collective decisions.0 -
No Deal started getting mentioned when it became clear that the EU wasn't going to roll over, and our men - DD, Boris etc. - weren't the great negotiating supermen we were led to believe. When they realized things weren't going all their own way, the Leavers sulked and said 'We never wanted you shitty deal anyway'. All a bit childish really.another_richard said:
I'm curious as to when the desire for No Deal began.Sean_F said:
I'd say the number who want a No Deal Brexit is about 25%. The number who would prefer it to revocation is much higher, but that doesn't mean they want it to happen.WhisperingOracle said:
As mentioned often, that figure is in fact for no-deal, with many other polls showing a significant number of those assume no-deal means to remain. From comparing various polls with other posters, it seems the hard Brexit core is more around 28-30 %.HYUFD said:
40-45% back hard Brexit in the polls, more than enough to give the Tories most seats under FPTP even if not a majorityStreeter said:
And out of touch with the majority.HYUFD said:
No, just getting back in touch with its core voteWhisperingOracle said:
If that is true, the Tory party is heading for self-destruction.HYUFD said:Just got back from my local party Association AGM, a strong feeling a 'true Brexiteer' was now needed as the next Tory leader. On a straw poll Raab and Leadsom came a surprising joint top, Boris was second and Hunt third
Delicious, isn’t it?
Initially it was the competing claims of Hard and Soft Brexit with May's Deal being a pretty hard variety.
But I don't remember much of the nihilistic desire for No Deal Brexit until the last year.0 -
My point was that to a rational person it ought not to be a matter of complete irrelevance if a political view to which they subscribe is also subscribed to by virtually 100% of the racist moron community. It might not make them change their mind but it ought to give them pause for thought.Luckyguy1983 said:Then you can't have had any confidence in whether your decision was actually justified. And you could be easily coraled by media portrayals of baskets of ugly deplorables voting the other way. Which is essentially what remainerism is. It is a garment you wear to show how tolerant and right on you are. It's intellectual laziness.
Please reflect rather than try to argue.0 -
The blame for the Democratic process not been honoured should go to the Leavers who failed to articulate what leave was going to be before people voted. ThOmnium said:
Nonetheless you are duty bound to honour the democratic process.AlastairMeeks said:
I want to see this malign policy founded on a campaign of xenophobic lies fail. It must fail democratically but fail it should.Omnium said:
Honour.AlastairMeeks said:
Why should Remainers seek consensus for a policy they consider mad and malign and whose supporters label them quislings and traitors? They have no interest in making it work and have been given no reason to help.Omnium said:
Yes to the first.AlastairMeeks said:
You are entitled to oppose policies you believe to be malign even if a majority voted for them. And so can Remainers.Omnium said:
What Corbyn does or doesn't do need not detain us.AlastairMeeks said:
Really? I don’t see Jeremy Corbyn working to enable the current government. Nor would Labour supporters expect him to.
And it turns out that this decision was a duff one that its promoters were clueless how to implement. There’s no requirement for others to try to make a nutty idea work.
But yes of course really. I really do believe that if duly elected a Labour government should govern our lands. I would fight for their right to do so even though I might disagree with everything they've ever said. 100% really.
Leavers’ failure to seek to build bridges with Remainers is both baffling and critical to the current mess. It’s as though they wanted Brexit to fail.
Consensus should have been sought on both sides. However its consensus bearing in mind the central fact that there has been a referendum and we decided to leave. (Don't have a referendum ever again obviously)
Leavers haven't failed to deliver Brexit - once the referendum was done it was all of our businesses to do so. WE have failed to deliver Brexit.
You'll pay a losing bet, and I'd suggest you might wish to honour a losing referendum.
The rest is unhelpful invective as you know.
Leavers have given Remainers absolutely no reason to rethink: quite the contrary.
What you want can't enter into that - your wants in this must by definition have been surrendered when you voted.
I
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I need a wee weeRobD said:
Are we there yet?not_on_fire said:Can I be the first to say...
We’ve not left yet.0 -
Austrian Minister on Newsnight says if Commons coalesces around a new agreement could be looked at but would still require participation in the European elections.
If a general election or referendum the UK would also participate in the EU elections but at a later date than the rest of the EU0 -
I was listening to this:TheScreamingEagles said:Only one thing to watch and listen at 11pm .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo_-KoBiBG0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyuukxNuusc0 -
And good for you. You have a huge array of ways in which you can loudly sing the praises of the EU or whatever else you might want to do.AlastairMeeks said:
And so I have. But I will not be compelled to assist it, I will loudly point out its malign nature and I will stamp the dirt down when this crazy policy is finally interred.Omnium said:
Nonetheless you are duty bound to honour the democratic process.AlastairMeeks said:
I want to see this malign policy founded on a campaign of xenophobic lies fail. It must fail democratically but fail it should.Omnium said:
Honour.AlastairMeeks said:
Why should Remainers seek consensus for a policy they consider mad and malign and whose supporters label them quislings and traitors? They have no interest in making it work and have been given no reason to help.Omnium said:
Yes to the first.AlastairMeeks said:
You are entitled to oppose policies you believe to be malign even if a majority voted for them. And so can Remainers.Omnium said:
What Corbyn does or doesn't do need not detain us.
But yes of course really. I really do believe that if duly elected a Labour government should govern our lands. I would fight for their right to do so even though I might disagree with everything they've ever said. 100% really.
Leavers’ failure to seek to build bridges with Remainers is both baffling and critical to the current mess. It’s as though they wanted Brexit to fail.
Consensus should have been sought on both sides. However its consensus bearing in mind the central fact that there has been a referendum and we decided to leave. (Don't have a referendum ever again obviously)
Leavers haven't failed to deliver Brexit - once the referendum was done it was all of our businesses to do so. WE have failed to deliver Brexit.
You'll pay a losing bet, and I'd suggest you might wish to honour a losing referendum.
The rest is unhelpful invective as you know.
Leavers have given Remainers absolutely no reason to rethink: quite the contrary.
What you want can't enter into that - your wants in this must by definition have been surrendered when you voted.
However it is all of our jobs to deliver on the vote. That's what we said when we voted. Thus to say that the Leavers have messed up the delivery on the Brexit vote isn't right - for good or bad we've all messed up on our promise to ourselves. It's not good.
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Can we please play that at full volume outside Mark Francois' bedroom tonight?TheScreamingEagles said:Only one thing to watch and listen at 11pm .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo_-KoBiBG00 -
Shame also on Mrs May, who keeps Dr Fox around as he is a "loyal Leaver".another_richard said:
One thing which makes it difficult to take the No Deal supporters seriously is that they haven't been calling for the sackings of Fox and Grayling.rcs1000 said:
This would be the same Dr Fox who sent more trade negotiators to Canberra and Washington DC than to all the countries that the EU had agreements with combined?AmpfieldAndy said:
I am not worried about Fox. Grayling however is simply unfit for office - unless it’s a janitor somewhere.another_richard said:
That depends upon what the consequences of a No Deal would be.AmpfieldAndy said:
No deal isn’t desirable but allows us to get on with the rest of our lives. Don’t see how the Tory Party can fight a GE without splitting at the moment. Both more desirable that staying in a customs union.another_richard said:
Its either CU or No Deal or GE.AmpfieldAndy said:
So some Cabinet Ministers want to to vote against the manifesto upon which they were elected. It farcical. They just want to be paid for doing what Brussels tells them.Scott_P said:
Decision time.
I am not sanguine about that when we have Fox and Grayling in two vital positions, the government barely functioning as it is and the economic cycle drawing to its end.
If we had rolled over the EU's existing trade agreements by now (or better managed it 12 months ago), then our negotiating position would be much stronger, and the dangers of No Deal would be much less.
If they really wanted No Deal then they should have been demanding that the trade and transport roles were under competent control.0 -
What do you mean by 'fail democratically'?AlastairMeeks said:I want to see this malign policy founded on a campaign of xenophobic lies fail. It must fail democratically but fail it should.
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0
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Fustian bloody nonsense. The referendum was advisory, and honouring it requires only considering the advice given. We have considered it for nearly three years and concluded that it was stupid and unworkable advice and to be roundly rejected.Omnium said:
Nonetheless you are duty bound to honour the democratic process.AlastairMeeks said:
I want to see this malign policy founded on a campaign of xenophobic lies fail. It must fail democratically but fail it should.Omnium said:
Honour.AlastairMeeks said:
Why should Remainers seek consensus for a policy they consider mad and malign and whose supporters label them quislings and traitors? They have no interest in making it work and have been given no reason to help.Omnium said:
Yes to the first.AlastairMeeks said:
You are entitled to oppose policies you believe to be malign even if a majority voted for them. And so can Remainers.Omnium said:
What Corbyn does or doesn't do need not detain us.AlastairMeeks said:
Really? I don’t see Jeremy Corbyn working to enable the current government. Nor would Labour supporters expect him to.
And it turns out that this decision was a duff one that its promoters were clueless how to implement. There’s no requirement for others to try to make a nutty idea work.
But yes of course really. I really do believe that if duly elected a Labour government should govern our lands. I would fight for their right to do so even though I might disagree with everything they've ever said. 100% really.
Leavers’ failure to seek to build bridges with Remainers is both baffling and critical to the current mess. It’s as though they wanted Brexit to fail.
Consensus should have been sought on both sides. However its consensus bearing in mind the central fact that there has been a referendum and we decided to leave. (Don't have a referendum ever again obviously)
Leavers haven't failed to deliver Brexit - once the referendum was done it was all of our businesses to do so. WE have failed to deliver Brexit.
You'll pay a losing bet, and I'd suggest you might wish to honour a losing referendum.
The rest is unhelpful invective as you know.
Leavers have given Remainers absolutely no reason to rethink: quite the contrary.
What you want can't enter into that - your wants in this must by definition have been surrendered when you voted.0 -
Beaconsfield Conservative Association have missed the ultimate banter heuristic by not announcing the deselection result as the clocks were bonging. Might be another 15 minutes.
Anyway, while we might not (yet) have the results we wanted tonight, surely tonight's a good time to be grateful for what we do have.
Since the referendum I've acquired two lovely mini-Drutts and (despite...), a nicer job, and a faster car. Wait...
GRIEVE DESELECTED. or loses vonc at least0 -
From a purely party-political point of view, the best thing for the Conservative Party now would be to engineer a General Election as soon as possible and hope to lose it (this second bit shouldn't be hard). This would hand the entire pile of steaming ordure over to Labour, or even better an unholy alliance of Labour, the LibDems and (best of all, from the Tories' point of view) the SNP, who aren't exactly friends with Labour. The ensuing chaos would also be quite useful in taking down Corbynism for ever.
Whether this is best for the country is debatable; high-risk, certainly.0 -
Toby Young on Newsnight starts telling an anecdote about his dad having dinner with FDR. A real man of the people...0
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It was on Sky Arts.another_richard said:
The Fleetwood Mac doc ?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Did you see the documentary on BBC4 earlier tonight?another_richard said:
Talented 60s rock star and founder of Fleetwood Mac, destroyed his brain with drugs.AndyJS said:
I have no idea what this is about. What's sad about it?isam said:For something sadder than the state of British Politics. Sky Arts showing the Peter Green Man of the World documentary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Green_(musician)
No, but I'll look it up on the iplayer.
One of the most interesting things of the many about PG, when Fleetwood Mac started getting big and buying sports cars, spending money lavishly, he suggested they give most of their earnings to starving African kids instead (he actually wanted to deliver Cheese & Tomato sandwiches to them personally), but Mick Fleetwood stopped the rest of them doing it... on judgement day, will he be considered the mad one?0 -
I am sure CUK have already printed his membership card anywayTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
That’s a small party. My local CLP in a safe Tory seat is much bigger.williamglenn said:0 -
A shame because he's an excellent parliamentarian, regardless of whether one agrees with his views or not.williamglenn said:0 -
And those who failed to try to find a consensus on the way forward and instead fostered division in order to gain internal party advantage.MikeSmithson said:
The blame for the Democratic process not been honoured should go to the Leavers who failed to articulate what leave was going to be before people voted. ThOmnium said:
Nonetheless you are duty bound to honour the democratic process.AlastairMeeks said:
I want to see this malign policy founded on a campaign of xenophobic lies fail. It must fail democratically but fail it should.Omnium said:
Honour.AlastairMeeks said:
Why should Remainers seek consensus for a policy they consider mad and malign and whose supporters label them quislings and traitors? They have no interest in making it work and have been given no reason to help.Omnium said:
Yes to the first.AlastairMeeks said:
You are entitled to oppose policies you believe to be malign even if a majority voted for them. And so can Remainers.Omnium said:
What Corbyn does or doesn't do need not detain us.AlastairMeeks said:
Really? I don’t see Jeremy Corbyn working to enable the current government. Nor would Labour supporters expect him to.
And it turns out that this decision was a duff one that its promoters were clueless how to implement. There’s no requirement for others to try to make a nutty idea work.
But yes of course really. I really do believe that if duly elected a Labour government should govern our lands. I would fight for their right to do so even though I might disagree with everything they've ever said. 100% really.
Leavers’ failure to seek to build bridges with Remainers is both baffling and critical to the current mess. It’s as though they wanted Brexit to fail.
Consensus should have been sought on both sides. However its consensus bearing in mind the central fact that there has been a referendum and we decided to leave. (Don't have a referendum ever again obviously)
Leavers haven't failed to deliver Brexit - once the referendum was done it was all of our businesses to do so. WE have failed to deliver Brexit.
You'll pay a losing bet, and I'd suggest you might wish to honour a losing referendum.
The rest is unhelpful invective as you know.
Leavers have given Remainers absolutely no reason to rethink: quite the contrary.
What you want can't enter into that - your wants in this must by definition have been surrendered when you voted.
I0 -
So you're saying that the referendum was basically ill-founded. I agree, but once its taken place then you can't dismiss it so lightly.Ishmael_Z said:
Fustian bloody nonsense. The referendum was advisory, and honouring it requires only considering the advice given. We have considered it for nearly three years and concluded that it was stupid and unworkable advice and to be roundly rejected.Omnium said:
Nonetheless you are duty bound to honour the democratic process.AlastairMeeks said:
I want to see this malign policy founded on a campaign of xenophobic lies fail. It must fail democratically but fail it should.Omnium said:
Honour.AlastairMeeks said:
Why should Remainers seek consensus for a policy they consider mad and malign and whose supporters label them quislings and traitors? They have no interest in making it work and have been given no reason to help.Omnium said:
Yes to the first.AlastairMeeks said:
You are entitled to oppose policies you believe to be malign even if a majority voted for them. And so can Remainers.Omnium said:
What Corbyn does or doesn't do need not detain us.AlastairMeeks said:
Really? I don’t see Jeremy Corbyn working to enable the current government. Nor would Labour supporters expect him to.
And it turns out that this decision was a duff one that its promoters were clueless how to implement. There’s no requirement for others to try to make a nutty idea work.
But yes of course really. I really do believe that if duly elected a Labour government should govern our lands. I would fight for their right to do so even though I might disagree with everything they've ever said. 100% really.
Leavers’ failure to seek to build bridges with Remainers is both baffling and critical to the current mess. It’s as though they wanted Brexit to fail.
Consensus should have been sought on both sides. However its consensus bearing in mind the central fact that there has been a referendum and we decided to leave. (Don't have a referendum ever again obviously)
Leavers haven't failed to deliver Brexit - once the referendum was done it was all of our businesses to do so. WE have failed to deliver Brexit.
You'll pay a losing bet, and I'd suggest you might wish to honour a losing referendum.
The rest is unhelpful invective as you know.
Leavers have given Remainers absolutely no reason to rethink: quite the contrary.
What you want can't enter into that - your wants in this must by definition have been surrendered when you voted.
It may have been advisory, but if you drag 35m people out for a vote then that advice counts.0 -
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There's been another Fleetwood Mac program on BBC4 tonight:isam said:
It was on Sky Arts.another_richard said:
The Fleetwood Mac doc ?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Did you see the documentary on BBC4 earlier tonight?another_richard said:
Talented 60s rock star and founder of Fleetwood Mac, destroyed his brain with drugs.AndyJS said:
I have no idea what this is about. What's sad about it?isam said:For something sadder than the state of British Politics. Sky Arts showing the Peter Green Man of the World documentary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Green_(musician)
No, but I'll look it up on the iplayer.
One of the most interesting things of the many about PG, when Fleetwood Mac started getting big and buying sports cars, spending money lavishly, he suggested they give most of their earnings to starving African kids instead (he actually wanted to deliver Cheese & Tomato sandwiches to them personally), but Mick Fleetwood stopped the rest of them doing it... on judgement day, will he be considered the mad one?
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/e/hf2njs/a-musical-history--s1-e3-fleetwood-mac-a-musical-history/0 -
Grieve didn’t like that people’s vote.
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Oh right, I think I’ve seen that one also. The Peter Green story is much better. I think that BBC one is just talking heads from nowadays. They did a great one called ‘Don’t Stop’ though.another_richard said:
There's been another Fleetwood Mac program on BBC4 tonight:isam said:
It was on Sky Arts.another_richard said:
The Fleetwood Mac doc ?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Did you see the documentary on BBC4 earlier tonight?another_richard said:
Talented 60s rock star and founder of Fleetwood Mac, destroyed his brain with drugs.AndyJS said:
I have no idea what this is about. What's sad about it?isam said:For something sadder than the state of British Politics. Sky Arts showing the Peter Green Man of the World documentary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Green_(musician)
No, but I'll look it up on the iplayer.
One of the most interesting things of the many about PG, when Fleetwood Mac started getting big and buying sports cars, spending money lavishly, he suggested they give most of their earnings to starving African kids instead (he actually wanted to deliver Cheese & Tomato sandwiches to them personally), but Mick Fleetwood stopped the rest of them doing it... on judgement day, will he be considered the mad one?
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/e/hf2njs/a-musical-history--s1-e3-fleetwood-mac-a-musical-history/0 -
Is he still about? I thought the lefty Twitter Mob had destroyed his life and forced him to live as a hermit.williamglenn said:Toby Young on Newsnight starts telling an anecdote about his dad having dinner with FDR. A real man of the people...
0 -
Is that the Royal We?Ishmael_Z said:
Fustian bloody nonsense. The referendum was advisory, and honouring it requires only considering the advice given. We have considered it for nearly three years and concluded that it was stupid and unworkable advice and to be roundly rejected.Omnium said:
Nonetheless you are duty bound to honour the democratic process.AlastairMeeks said:
I want to see this malign policy founded on a campaign of xenophobic lies fail. It must fail democratically but fail it should.Omnium said:
Honour.AlastairMeeks said:
Why should Remainers seek consensus for a policy they consider mad and malign and whose supporters label them quislings and traitors? They have no interest in making it work and have been given no reason to help.Omnium said:
Yes to the first.AlastairMeeks said:
You are entitled to oppose policies you believe to be malign even if a majority voted for them. And so can Remainers.Omnium said:
What Corbyn does or doesn't do need not detain us.AlastairMeeks said:
Really? I don’t see Jeremy Corbyn working to enable the current government. Nor would Labour supporters expect him to.
And it turns out that this decision was a duff one that its promoters were clueless how to implement. There’s no requirement for others to try to make a nutty idea work.
But yes of course really. I really do believe that if duly elected a Labour government should govern our lands. I would fight for their right to do so even though I might disagree with everything they've ever said. 100% really.
Leavers’ failure to seek to build bridges with Remainers is both baffling and critical to the current mess. It’s as though they wanted Brexit to fail.
Consensus should have been sought on both sides. However its consensus bearing in mind the central fact that there has been a referendum and we decided to leave. (Don't have a referendum ever again obviously)
Leavers haven't failed to deliver Brexit - once the referendum was done it was all of our businesses to do so. WE have failed to deliver Brexit.
You'll pay a losing bet, and I'd suggest you might wish to honour a losing referendum.
The rest is unhelpful invective as you know.
Leavers have given Remainers absolutely no reason to rethink: quite the contrary.
What you want can't enter into that - your wants in this must by definition have been surrendered when you voted.0 -
Disaster! We may have to give the electorate a chance to vote. How could this possibly be allowed?AndyJS said:Rory Stewart on Newsnight — European Elections may now be unavoidable.
0 -
Not all members will have attended but we know Labour has almost double the membership of the Tories but certainly Labour voters are not double the number of Tory voters (opposition parties often have more members than the governing party)Jonathan said:
That’s a small party. My local CLP in a safe Tory seat is much bigger.williamglenn said:0 -
So people should not have believed all those political leaders when they said the result would be enacted. Including practically everyone who is now claiming it should be overturned.Ishmael_Z said:
Fustian bloody nonsense. The referendum was advisory, and honouring it requires only considering the advice given. We have considered it for nearly three years and concluded that it was stupid and unworkable advice and to be roundly rejected.
It is no wonder Parliamentary democracy is now scorned. If we do not leave then it has failed us utterly and deserves to go the way of every other failed political ideology.0 -
It always was wrong. The departure time being 11pm not midnight was not widely known.AndyJS said:Someone's got their wires crossed:
https://howmanydaystill.com/its/brexit-60 -
That is well-deserved.TheScreamingEagles said:
300 seems like a big attendance to me.Jonathan said:
That’s a small party. My local CLP in a safe Tory seat is much bigger.williamglenn said:0 -
We tried. Boy we tried.Stark_Dawning said:Is he still about? I thought the lefty Twitter Mob had destroyed his life and forced him to live as a hermit.
0 -
Sort of like LibDems with their tuition fees plans ?MikeSmithson said:
The blame for the Democratic process not been honoured should go to the Leavers who failed to articulate what leave was going to be before people voted. ThOmnium said:
Nonetheless you are duty bound to honour the democratic process.AlastairMeeks said:
I want to see this malign policy founded on a campaign of xenophobic lies fail. It must fail democratically but fail it should.Omnium said:
Honour.AlastairMeeks said:
Why should Remainers seek consensus for a policy they consider mad and malign and whose supporters label them quislings and traitors? They have no interest in making it work and have been given no reason to help.Omnium said:
Yes to the first.AlastairMeeks said:
You are entitled to oppose policies you believe to be malign even if a majority voted for them. And so can Remainers.Omnium said:
What Corbyn does or doesn't do need not detain us.AlastairMeeks said:
Really? I don’t see Jeremy Corbyn working to enable the current government. Nor would Labour supporters expect him to.
And it turns out that this decision was a duff one that its promoters were clueless how to implement. There’s no requirement for others to try to make a nutty idea work.
But yes of course really. I really do believe that if duly elected a Labour government should govern our lands. I would fight for their right to do so even though I might disagree with everything they've ever said. 100% really.
Leavers’ failure to seek to build bridges with Remainers is both baffling and critical to the current mess. It’s as though they wanted Brexit to fail.
Consensus should have been sought on both sides. However its consensus bearing in mind the central fact that there has been a referendum and we decided to leave. (Don't have a referendum ever again obviously)
Leavers haven't failed to deliver Brexit - once the referendum was done it was all of our businesses to do so. WE have failed to deliver Brexit.
You'll pay a losing bet, and I'd suggest you might wish to honour a losing referendum.
The rest is unhelpful invective as you know.
Leavers have given Remainers absolutely no reason to rethink: quite the contrary.
What you want can't enter into that - your wants in this must by definition have been surrendered when you voted.
I0 -
The mad dogs are out already. One of the few articulate and sane Tories to emerge from this fiasco with creditTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
All true, and yet the core of the Tory strength is quite hollow. What happened to Labour in Scotland might just happen to Tory safe seats. Happy days.HYUFD said:
Not all members will have attended but we know Labour has almost double the membership of the Tories but certainly Labour voters are not double the number of Tory voters (opposition parties often have more members than the governing party)Jonathan said:
That’s a small party. My local CLP in a safe Tory seat is much bigger.williamglenn said:0 -
They look like door to door salesmen who’ve scarpered with an old lady’s savings and think they’re innocent because she signed them away without reading the small printRichard_Tyndall said:
So people should not have believed all those political leaders when they said the result would be enacted. Including practically everyone who is now claiming it should be overturned.Ishmael_Z said:
Fustian bloody nonsense. The referendum was advisory, and honouring it requires only considering the advice given. We have considered it for nearly three years and concluded that it was stupid and unworkable advice and to be roundly rejected.
It is no wonder Parliamentary democracy is now scorned. If we do not leave then it has failed us utterly and deserves to go the way of every other failed political ideology.0 -
He is an excellent Parliamentarian but he has completely betrayed his party, the public's decision and no longer stands for what the party stands for. It has been party policy for 6 years roughly now that the public would decide our future and 3 years now since they did - he's stood on not one but 2 manifestos pledging to honour that. If he's unwilling to respect the party and the public then sadly he should go.AndyJS said:
A shame because he's an excellent parliamentarian, regardless of whether one agrees with his views or not.williamglenn said:0 -
Deleted. It’s late.0
-
Personally I think this new wheeze of deselecting Tory MPs who have repeatedly defied three-line whips is an excellent one. About another 93 to go.0
-
Grieve presumably now telling Beaconsfield that they have to vote again, the stupid old racists, and that they didn't know what they were voting for.0
-
Dunno though, Corbyn runs on a Cameronesque renegotiation+referendum, renegotiation unexpectedly turns up nothing good, Tories and Farage denounce it as not brexit, half the Leave vote boycotts it, Remain wins, Corbyn spends a couple of terms nationalizing some of the means of production or whatever which, although not economically optimal, is much better for the economy than brexit and way, way less chaotic than the current thing.Richard_Nabavi said:From a purely party-political point of view, the best thing for the Conservative Party now would be to engineer a General Election as soon as possible and hope to lose it (this second bit shouldn't be hard). This would hand the entire pile of steaming ordure over to Labour, or even better an unholy alliance of Labour, the LibDems and (best of all, from the Tories' point of view) the SNP, who aren't exactly friends with Labour. The ensuing chaos would also be quite useful in taking down Corbynism for ever.
Whether this is best for the country is debatable; high-risk, certainly.0 -
He was on the Caledonian sleeper when I last saw him - wearing a leather tabard and taking his teenage son stag hunting. A real man of the people.Roger said:
The mad dogs are out already. One of the few articulate and sane Tories to emerge from this fiasco with creditTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Did he mention his Dad getting him into University?williamglenn said:Toby Young on Newsnight starts telling an anecdote about his dad having dinner with FDR. A real man of the people...
0 -
Yes, that's the risk.edmundintokyo said:
Dunno though, Corbyn runs on a Cameronesque renegotiation+referendum, renegotiation unexpectedly turns up nothing good, Tories and Farage denounce it as not brexit, half the Leave vote boycotts it, Remain wins, Corbyn spends a couple of terms nationalizing some of the means of production or whatever which, although not economically optimal, is much better for the economy than brexit and way, way less chaotic than the current thing.Richard_Nabavi said:From a purely party-political point of view, the best thing for the Conservative Party now would be to engineer a General Election as soon as possible and hope to lose it (this second bit shouldn't be hard). This would hand the entire pile of steaming ordure over to Labour, or even better an unholy alliance of Labour, the LibDems and (best of all, from the Tories' point of view) the SNP, who aren't exactly friends with Labour. The ensuing chaos would also be quite useful in taking down Corbynism for ever.
Whether this is best for the country is debatable; high-risk, certainly.0 -
Yes - the country is crying out for old school marxist economics and anti semitismJonathan said:
All true, and yet the core of the Tory strength is quite hollow. What happened to Labour in Scotland might just happen to Tory safe seats. Happy days.HYUFD said:
Not all members will have attended but we know Labour has almost double the membership of the Tories but certainly Labour voters are not double the number of Tory voters (opposition parties often have more members than the governing party)Jonathan said:
That’s a small party. My local CLP in a safe Tory seat is much bigger.williamglenn said:0 -
Being articulate doesnt mean someone gets credit. Liking their goal doesnt either. Grieve's fanaticism and willingness to risk everything to achieve his goals make him an erudite Steve Baker.Roger said:
The mad dogs are out already. One of the few articulate and sane Tories to emerge from this fiasco with creditTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
The Tories would be led by a Leaver like Raab or Boris most likely while Labour was tied down by the SNP and LDs so that would limit the scope of their socialismedmundintokyo said:
Dunno though, Corbyn runs on a Cameronesque renegotiation+referendum, renegotiation unexpectedly turns up nothing good, Tories and Farage denounce it as not brexit, half the Leave vote boycotts it, Remain wins, Corbyn spends a couple of terms nationalizing some of the means of production or whatever which, although not economically optimal, is much better for the economy than brexit and way, way less chaotic than the current thing.Richard_Nabavi said:From a purely party-political point of view, the best thing for the Conservative Party now would be to engineer a General Election as soon as possible and hope to lose it (this second bit shouldn't be hard). This would hand the entire pile of steaming ordure over to Labour, or even better an unholy alliance of Labour, the LibDems and (best of all, from the Tories' point of view) the SNP, who aren't exactly friends with Labour. The ensuing chaos would also be quite useful in taking down Corbynism for ever.
Whether this is best for the country is debatable; high-risk, certainly.0 -
Grieve voted for A50 and then against the WDA.Roger said:
The mad dogs are out already. One of the few articulate and sane Tories to emerge from this fiasco with creditTheScreamingEagles said:
Compare with Ken Clarke.0 -
I'm not sure May does riskRichard_Nabavi said:From a purely party-political point of view, the best thing for the Conservative Party now would be to engineer a General Election as soon as possible and hope to lose it (this second bit shouldn't be hard). This would hand the entire pile of steaming ordure over to Labour, or even better an unholy alliance of Labour, the LibDems and (best of all, from the Tories' point of view) the SNP, who aren't exactly friends with Labour. The ensuing chaos would also be quite useful in taking down Corbynism for ever.
Whether this is best for the country is debatable; high-risk, certainly.0 -
Only if the Tories revoke Brexit, provided the Tories stick to Brexit and Leaving the EU that won't happen.Jonathan said:
All true, and yet the core of the Tory strength is quite hollow. What happened to Labour in Scotland might just happen to Tory safe seats. Happy days.HYUFD said:
Not all members will have attended but we know Labour has almost double the membership of the Tories but certainly Labour voters are not double the number of Tory voters (opposition parties often have more members than the governing party)Jonathan said:
That’s a small party. My local CLP in a safe Tory seat is much bigger.williamglenn said:
Labour were crushed in Scotland as Yes voting areas like Glasgow which were safe Labour and Yes voting Labour voters turned on the party with a vengeance after they backed No to Independence and moved en masse to the SNP. The same would only happen to the Tories if they backed BINO now or revoke Art 50 and their Leave seats and Leave voters then moved en masse to Farage's new Brexit Party or UKIP0 -
He must have got into bad company, people like Boris and Steve Baker telling him that the WDA was worse than Remaining.another_richard said:Grieve voted for A50 and then against the WDA.
0 -
I think it would be great if Mark Francois, Steve Baker, Christopher Chope and Gutto Bebb also got the boot.Richard_Nabavi said:Personally I think this new wheeze of deselecting Tory MPs who have repeatedly defied three-line whips is an excellent one. About another 93 to go.
0 -
Speaking as a neoliberal, I'd take that over the current thing.Floater said:
Yes - the country is crying out for old school marxist economics and anti semitismJonathan said:
All true, and yet the core of the Tory strength is quite hollow. What happened to Labour in Scotland might just happen to Tory safe seats. Happy days.HYUFD said:
Not all members will have attended but we know Labour has almost double the membership of the Tories but certainly Labour voters are not double the number of Tory voters (opposition parties often have more members than the governing party)Jonathan said:
That’s a small party. My local CLP in a safe Tory seat is much bigger.williamglenn said:0 -
Easy. Terry and June.isam said:0 -
Considering the line to take during the election was "No deal is better than a bad deal" it is entirely reasonable to reject this bad deal. May has betrayed her own commitments not the ERG.Richard_Nabavi said:Personally I think this new wheeze of deselecting Tory MPs who have repeatedly defied three-line whips is an excellent one. About another 93 to go.
0 -
O/T
Interesting essay:
"The secrets of the ruling class
Privilege means more than entitlement, it's a freemasonry
Alex Renton"
https://unherd.com/2019/03/the-secrets-of-the-ruling-class0 -
Howard's Wayisam said:0 -
You wouldn't enjoy it if you got it.edmundintokyo said:
Speaking as a neoliberal, I'd take that over the current thing.Floater said:
Yes - the country is crying out for old school marxist economics and anti semitismJonathan said:
All true, and yet the core of the Tory strength is quite hollow. What happened to Labour in Scotland might just happen to Tory safe seats. Happy days.HYUFD said:
Not all members will have attended but we know Labour has almost double the membership of the Tories but certainly Labour voters are not double the number of Tory voters (opposition parties often have more members than the governing party)Jonathan said:
That’s a small party. My local CLP in a safe Tory seat is much bigger.williamglenn said:0 -
You sound like a Corbynista or some of the hard Left in the early 1980’s when sensible Labour MPs were being threatened with deselection.Philip_Thompson said:
He is an excellent Parliamentarian but he has completely betrayed his party, the public's decision and no longer stands for what the party stands for. It has been party policy for 6 years roughly now that the public would decide our future and 3 years now since they did - he's stood on not one but 2 manifestos pledging to honour that. If he's unwilling to respect the party and the public then sadly he should go.AndyJS said:
A shame because he's an excellent parliamentarian, regardless of whether one agrees with his views or not.williamglenn said:
I think Grieve being turfed out is a great shame, unpopular as this may make me on this forum. The Tories are turning themselves into a nasty sect - nationalistic (not patriotic), xenophobic, anti-business, closed-minded, illiberal and obsessed with some sort of purist theoretical Brexit rather than a pragmatic what-works approach. They are not conserving anything; their behaviour is utterly destructive.
Given how much I loathe Corbyn and what he stands for - and I know plenty like me - my vote ought to be up for grabs. Yet I would rather stick pins in my eyes than vote for a Tory party which embraces unpleasant morons like Mark Francois and Steve Baker, blustering lying philanderers like Johnson and feeble-minded incompetents like IDS and Dominic Raab and turns its back on people like Grieve, one of the more thoughtful MPs in Parliament and a very fine Attorney-General.
0 -
But they've backed their own type of Brexit as have others - Grieve has ruled out all types of Brexit.Richard_Nabavi said:
He must have got into bad company, people like Boris and Steve Baker telling him that the WDA was worse than Remaining.another_richard said:Grieve voted for A50 and then against the WDA.
0 -
I don't doubt it.Sean_F said:
You wouldn't enjoy it if you got it.
FPTP + two main parties run by their lunatic members doesn't make for good choices.0 -
Yes, I clearly remember Boris, Steve Baker, IDS etc saying during the referendum that we'd be crashing out in chaos with tariffs imposed on Welsh lamb, British fisherman unable to land their catch, car manufacturing supply chains wrecked, and free-trade deals with 70 non-EU countries being terminated overnight. Admittedly I can't quite find the clips on-line now, but that must be because the Deep State has deleted them.Philip_Thompson said:
Considering the line to take during the election was "No deal is better than a bad deal" it is entirely reasonable to reject this bad deal. May has betrayed her own commitments not the ERG.Richard_Nabavi said:Personally I think this new wheeze of deselecting Tory MPs who have repeatedly defied three-line whips is an excellent one. About another 93 to go.
0 -
Well said.Cyclefree said:
You sound like a Corbynista or some of the hard Left in the early 1980’s when sensible Labour MPs were being threatened with deselection.Philip_Thompson said:
He is an excellent Parliamentarian but he has completely betrayed his party, the public's decision and no longer stands for what the party stands for. It has been party policy for 6 years roughly now that the public would decide our future and 3 years now since they did - he's stood on not one but 2 manifestos pledging to honour that. If he's unwilling to respect the party and the public then sadly he should go.AndyJS said:
A shame because he's an excellent parliamentarian, regardless of whether one agrees with his views or not.williamglenn said:
I think Grieve being turfed out is a great shame, unpopular as this may make me on this forum. The Tories are turning themselves into a nasty sect - nationalistic (not patriotic), xenophobic, anti-business, closed-minded, illiberal and obsessed with some sort of purist theoretical Brexit rather than a pragmatic what-works approach. They arenot conserving anything; their behaviour is utterly destructive.
Given how much I loathe Corbyn and what he stands for - and I know plenty like me - my vote ought to be up for grabs. Yet I would rather stick pins in my eyes than vote for a Tory party which embraces unpleasant morons like Mark Francois and Steve Baker, blustering lying philanderers like Johnson and feeble-minded incompetents like IDS and Dominic Raab and turns its back on people like Grieve, one of the more thoughtful MPs in Parliament and a very fine Attorney-General.0 -
You’d take anti-semitism???? Sheesh......edmundintokyo said:
Speaking as a neoliberal, I'd take that over the current thing.Floater said:
Yes - the country is crying out for old school marxist economics and anti semitismJonathan said:
All true, and yet the core of the Tory strength is quite hollow. What happened to Labour in Scotland might just happen to Tory safe seats. Happy days.HYUFD said:
Not all members will have attended but we know Labour has almost double the membership of the Tories but certainly Labour voters are not double the number of Tory voters (opposition parties often have more members than the governing party)Jonathan said:
That’s a small party. My local CLP in a safe Tory seat is much bigger.williamglenn said:0 -
You are an obvious CUK so stop whinging and sign up, they are looking for new members and I am sure would welcome your supportCyclefree said:
You sound like a Corbynista or some of the hard Left in the early 1980’s when sensible Labour MPs were being threatened with deselection.Philip_Thompson said:
He is an excellent Parliamentarian but he has completely betrayed his party, the public's decision and no longer stands for what the party stands for. It has been party policy for 6 years roughly now that the public would decide our future and 3 years now since they did - he's stood on not one but 2 manifestos pledging to honour that. If he's unwilling to respect the party and the public then sadly he should go.AndyJS said:
A shame because he's an excellent parliamentarian, regardless of whether one agrees with his views or not.williamglenn said:
I think Grieve being turfed out is a great shame, unpopular as this may make me on this forum. The Tories are turning themselves into a nasty sect - nationalistic (not patriotic), xenophobic, anti-business, closed-minded, illiberal and obsessed with some sort of purist theoretical Brexit rather than a pragmatic what-works approach. They arenot conserving anything; their behaviour is utterly destructive.
Given how much I loathe Corbyn and what he stands for - and I know plenty like me - my vote ought to be up for grabs. Yet I would rather stick pins in my eyes than vote for a Tory party which embraces unpleasant morons like Mark Francois and Steve Baker, blustering lying philanderers like Johnson and feeble-minded incompetents like IDS and Dominic Raab and turns its back on people like Grieve, one of the more thoughtful MPs in Parliament and a very fine Attorney-General.0 -
Diamonds in the Skyisam said:0 -
Wonderful piece of music . Inspiring and uplifting . So the Union Jack continues to flutter over Brussels for a little longer .HYUFD said:
Can we please play that at full volume outside Mark Francois' bedroom tonight?TheScreamingEagles said:Only one thing to watch and listen at 11pm .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo_-KoBiBG0
The funny thing about the EU beforehand people seemed reluctant to talk about their support for it in more emotional terms . We didn’t see these rallies , it was a very transactional view , cold and just economic based.
UK politicians on the Remain side were mostly reluctant to show a warmth towards it almost embarrassed to do so .
Now with the UK on its way out only then do we see this more passionate argument for it . As the saying goes you only appreciate something when you’re about to lose it or when it’s gone.
0 -
Did he mention his Dad giving him £50,000 in the early 90's so he could buy his first house?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Did he mention his Dad getting him into University?williamglenn said:Toby Young on Newsnight starts telling an anecdote about his dad having dinner with FDR. A real man of the people...
0 -
The voice of the new Tory party to a possible voter: Fuck off.HYUFD said:
You are an obvious CUK so stop whinging and sign up, they are looking for new members and I am sure would welcome your supportCyclefree said:
You sound like a Corbynista or some of the hard Left in the early 1980’s when sensible Labour MPs were being threatened with deselection.Philip_Thompson said:
He is an excellent Parliamentarian but he has completely betrayed his party, the public's decision and no longer stands for what the party stands for. It has been party policy for 6 years roughly now that the public would decide our future and 3 years now since they did - he's stood on not one but 2 manifestos pledging to honour that. If he's unwilling to respect the party and the public then sadly he should go.AndyJS said:
A shame because he's an excellent parliamentarian, regardless of whether one agrees with his views or not.williamglenn said:
I think Grieve being turfed out is a great shame, unpopular as this may make me on this forum. The Tories are turning themselves into a nasty sect - nationalistic (not patriotic), xenophobic, anti-business, closed-minded, illiberal and obsessed with some sort of purist theoretical Brexit rather than a pragmatic what-works approach. They arenot conserving anything; their behaviour is utterly destructive.
Given how much I loathe Corbyn and what he stands for - and I know plenty like me - my vote ought to be up for grabs. Yet I would rather stick pins in my eyes than vote for a Tory party which embraces unpleasant morons like Mark Francois and Steve Baker, blustering lying philanderers like Johnson and feeble-minded incompetents like IDS and Dominic Raab and turns its back on people like Grieve, one of the more thoughtful MPs in Parliament and a very fine Attorney-General.
Watching the Tories being destroyed at the next GE will be one of the few good things to come out of this sorry mess.
Edited: not just one voter. There are 5 in our household, none of which will be going to the Tories for the foreseeable future. They will likely be pretty evenly divided between the Lib Dems and the Greens.0 -
Over the current thing, yup.Cyclefree said:
You’d take anti-semitism???? Sheesh......
I mean, in practice we're only talking about failing to crack down on odious party members and a legitimate but unhealthily intense opposition to the government of Israel, it's not like Corbyn's going to direct Keir Starmer to sort out the logistics for the Final Solution.0 -
From fuck business, it’s not that far to fuck the voters.Cyclefree said:
The voice of the new Tory party to a possible voter: Fuck off.HYUFD said:
You are an obvious CUK so stop whinging and sign up, they are looking for new members and I am sure would welcome your supportCyclefree said:
You sound like a Corbynista or some of the hard Left in the early 1980’s when sensible Labour MPs were being threatened with deselection.Philip_Thompson said:
He is an excellent Parliamentarian but he has completely betrayed his party, the public's decision and no longer stands for what the party stands for. It has been party policy for 6 years roughly now that the public would decide our future and 3 years now since they did - he's stood on not one but 2 manifestos pledging to honour that. If he's unwilling to respect the party and the public then sadly he should go.AndyJS said:
A shame because he's an excellent parliamentarian, regardless of whether one agrees with his views or not.williamglenn said:
I think Grieve being turfed out is a great shame, unpopular as this may make me on this forum. The Tories are turning themselves into a nasty sect - nationalistic (not patriotic), xenophobic, anti-business, closed-minded, illiberal and obsessed with some sort of purist theoretical Brexit rather than a pragmatic what-works approach. They arenot conserving anything; their behaviour is utterly destructive.
Given how much I loathe Corbyn and what he stands for - and I know plenty like me - my vote ought to be up for grabs. Yet I would rather stick pins in my eyes than vote for a Tory party which embraces unpleasant morons like Mark Francois and Steve Baker, blustering lying philanderers like Johnson and feeble-minded incompetents like IDS and Dominic Raab and turns its back on people like Grieve, one of the more thoughtful MPs in Parliament and a very fine Attorney-General.
Watching the Tories being destroyed at the next GE will be one of the few good things to come out of this sorry mess.0 -
The 1980-1985 Doctor Who theme tune (The Peter Howell remix, not the Delia Derbyshire original)williamglenn said:
Howard's Wayisam said:
Or
The 1980 Whicker's World theme tune by - I shit you not - Andrew Lloyd Webber
Or
The 1988 Firstborn theme tune by - yes, really - Hans Zimmer0
This discussion has been closed.