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  • Streeter said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Well, here is one Brexiteering sinner who abjectly repents, in so many ways. William Glenn was right and I was wrong. Brexit is undeliverable in any meaningful way that doesn’t severely damage the country.

    Revote. Or revoke. We have been defeated.

    It's usual to quote Luke 15:10 at this point but frankly I feel too sorry for genuine Leavers who have been well and truly led up the garden path.

    Commiserations.
    Thankyou Peter.

    I actually think the entire country has been betrayed by the entire political class, Left to Right, Remain to Leave. Europhiles were arrogant idiots for integrating us so deeply, without our consent, and denying us all those promised referendums.

    Just one vote - on Maastricht or the Constitution or Lisbon - would have vented the public’s anger, integration would have stopped, and Brexit would not have existed as a word, let alone a political calamity.

    But the behaviour of the hardcore Leavers since the vote has been as misguided and as shortsighted - as witlessly damaging - as anything europhiles ever did. I was wrong to align myself with them.

    It is so depressing I am going to bow out of PB for quite a while. Possibly forever. My heart is not in it any more. I will of course honour any outstanding bets.

    I wish everyone the best. May God look upon us mercifully. Goodbye.
    Don't slam the door.
    Don't worry. He'll be back. Tomorrow probably. :smile:
    Thanks SeanT. Pretty much agree with you, epart from the leaving PB bit.

    I need the betting winnings.

    Atb. C u back here one day.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136
    edited March 2019
    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    tpfkar said:

    The trouble with any kind of extension, is the EU elections issue. These elections will be won by Farage's Brexit Party, and his new party will be established in public mind.

    He will then be running at next GE on a full blown betrayal of the People act. Dangerous waters.

    Are you sure? The Brexit vote will split between Con / UKIP / Brexit / Lots of UKIP splinters
    I reckon Labour might do quite well.
    Why would any Brexit supporter vote Conservative ? An utterly wasted vote. Particularly under PM May.
    Which other party could deliver Brexit ?
    No ones going to deliver anything at The Euros are they?
    Well, they'll deliver themselves a mighty big salary plus expenses for no required work. There is a part of me that wants to stand. I shall form the "EU smells of poo" party. When I win a seat. I shall stand up in the hemicycle, state that the EU smells of poo, then go home and pocket my salary. This is the most realistic plan anybody has produced regarding Brexit.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    Nigelb said:

    SeanT said:

    Well, here is one Brexiteering sinner who abjectly repents, in so many ways. William Glenn was right and I was wrong. Brexit is undeliverable in any meaningful way that doesn’t severely damage the country.

    Revote. Or revoke. We have been defeated.

    You going all John of Gaunt on us ?

    That England that was wont to conquer others
    Hath made a shameful conquest of itself...
    This is Sean. He will be back within a day or so swearing eternal damnation upon all Remainers and saying he would rather burn in the deepest pit of Donald Tusk's Coal Cellar than repent his unquenchable Brexit beliefs.

    Or not. Depending on the number of drinks.
    Spot on.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Been out all day enjoying the lovely sunshine.
    I trust everything has been sorted to the satisfaction of all?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    viewcode said:

    Andrew said:


    Which other party could deliver Brexit ?

    You need to vote for a leader who has voted to leave the EU in both referendums, voted against the EU at every stage of its development, and voted for no-deal at every stage of the current process.

    Ohhh, Jeremy Corbyn .....
    Did we work out if he was a Russian spy in the end? Because if he is, he's doing the Motherland proud.
    Surely it is the blue team that has best served Russia's agenda by paralysing British politics, weakening Europe and decimating the armed forces.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,628
    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    tpfkar said:

    The trouble with any kind of extension, is the EU elections issue. These elections will be won by Farage's Brexit Party, and his new party will be established in public mind.

    He will then be running at next GE on a full blown betrayal of the People act. Dangerous waters.

    Are you sure? The Brexit vote will split between Con / UKIP / Brexit / Lots of UKIP splinters
    I reckon Labour might do quite well.
    Why would any Brexit supporter vote Conservative ? An utterly wasted vote. Particularly under PM May.
    Which other party could deliver Brexit ?
    No ones going to deliver anything at The Euros are they?
    It certainly wont be by yet more of the posturing which has caused the impasse.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,580
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Astonishing you can wear that and not get arrested (if he wasn't).
    I don't agree with him but why should he be arrested?

    He is not threatening anyone. Are you saying people should now be arrested because they hold and articulate (though I use that word loosely) views that you disagree with?
    Christ on a bike.

    I said absolutely nothing about what I thought or about what should happen, merely that there was a strong likelihood of getting arrested for hate crime for the multiculturism is genocide sign.

    Today of all days you should be basking in the immense pride and joy which must flow from seeing what you and your lot have done to this country. Don't spoil it by picking fights.
    I have no pride in seeing my view of MPs and those like you who scorn democracy confirmed. Though I will admit to a faint sense of regretful satisfaction that I have been proved right about you.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    Who's deciding the IV2 process for Monday - is that Letwin and his band + Bercow?

    And will we have to wait for Monday before we know what it is?
  • dixiedean said:

    Been out all day enjoying the lovely sunshine.
    I trust everything has been sorted to the satisfaction of all?

    Yep, the HoC got it all boxed off. Everything's sweet.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Clearing the decks for a second referendum?

    Or just running scared of another anti-Establishment rant from Michael Gove's best mate?
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    https://twitter.com/oflynnmep/status/1111687093951045635?s=21

    Some Tiggers are more equal than others!

    Desperate stuff
    I know! Chuka's vanity knows no bounds
    Chuka's initials aren't "CUK"
    Haha!! They're not far off it!!
    https://twitter.com/kylerodgers/status/1111592840059072512

    https://twitter.com/Iaculus/status/1111630244618878978

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    edited March 2019
    dixiedean said:

    Been out all day enjoying the lovely sunshine.
    I trust everything has been sorted to the satisfaction of all?

    Pretty much all resolved now - just a few 'i's to dot and rubicons to cross.
  • Perhaps Vote Leave couldn't be registered to operate in a second referendum if this was outstanding? Perhaps they are clearing the decks ready for action?
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Norm said:



    True but in general we leavers are must more tolerant than you remainers. See this

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1111680500106780674

    Thanks for that. It's already been apparent on the threads on this site for some time, but it's a revealing finding nonetheless.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136

    viewcode said:

    Andrew said:


    Which other party could deliver Brexit ?

    You need to vote for a leader who has voted to leave the EU in both referendums, voted against the EU at every stage of its development, and voted for no-deal at every stage of the current process.

    Ohhh, Jeremy Corbyn .....
    Did we work out if he was a Russian spy in the end? Because if he is, he's doing the Motherland proud.
    Surely it is the blue team that has best served Russia's agenda by paralysing British politics, weakening Europe and decimating the armed forces.
    Smiley waited in the upstairs dark. Footsteps approached the front door and entered the living room. The microphones picked up the pleasantries:

    "What do you want?" said the handler.
    "Scotch. A bloody big one" said Agent May....
  • Norm said:



    True but in general we leavers are must more tolerant than you remainers. See this

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1111680500106780674

    Thanks for that. It's already been apparent on the threads on this site for some time, but it's a revealing finding nonetheless.
    Yes. Some people here are well above 4.8
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Well, here is one Brexiteering sinner who abjectly repents, in so many ways. William Glenn was right and I was wrong. Brexit is undeliverable in any meaningful way that doesn’t severely damage the country.

    Revote. Or revoke. We have been defeated.

    It's usual to quote Luke 15:10 at this point but frankly I feel too sorry for genuine Leavers who have been well and truly led up the garden path.

    Commiserations.
    Thankyou Peter.

    I actually think the entire country has been betrayed by the entire political class, Left to Right, Remain to Leave. Europhiles were arrogant idiots for integrating us so deeply, without our consent, and denying us all those promised referendums.

    Just one vote - on Maastricht or the Constitution or Lisbon - would have vented the public’s anger, integration would have stopped, and Brexit would not have existed as a word, let alone a political calamity.

    But the behaviour of the hardcore Leavers since the vote has been as misguided and as shortsighted - as witlessly damaging - as anything europhiles ever did. I was wrong to align myself with them.

    It is so depressing I am going to bow out of PB for quite a while. Possibly forever. My heart is not in it any more. I will of course honour any outstanding bets.

    I wish everyone the best. May God look upon us mercifully. Goodbye.
    Don't go!! We need you in this country's hour of despair.
  • Cyclefree said:

    In the 2017 GE Brexit was irrelevant to my vote. Keeping Corbyn out of power was the only thing I was interested in. The same will be the case if there is a GE this year. Alas, my vote will make no difference at all as the Labour MP has a large majority. So my choices are:-

    1. Voting for the Lib Dems. These days that’s the electoral equivalent of a pity fuck.
    2. Abstaining in person.
    3. Spoiling my ballot paper by writing rude things on it

    Make sure you draw outside the box! IIRC someone drew a phallus inside one of the boxes and it was accepted as a legitimate vote.
  • Good summing up of some of the atmosphere :

    http://www.twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1111686933825179649
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218
    edited March 2019
    I'm in a bit of a unique position with regards MPs and Brexit here. My old Tory MP, Lee Rowley has consistently voted against the Gov't implementing the vote.
    But since I moved my new Labour MP, John Mann has consistently voted with the Gov't on the most important issue of the day.....
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Astonishing you can wear that and not get arrested (if he wasn't).
    Being a c##t is not a crime.
    Being a racist c%%t is.
    No it is not.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Off topic, the valuation of Lyft (loss-making) and listed today in the US and suggested valuations for Uber strike me as insane. And a bubble in the making.

    I fear we are re-embarking on the same old boom and bust cycle of before.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Norm said:



    True but in general we leavers are must more tolerant than you remainers. See this

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1111680500106780674

    Thanks for that. It's already been apparent on the threads on this site for some time, but it's a revealing finding nonetheless.
    It is only a test of tolerance if you think that both sides are exactly equally loathesome. I couldn't possibly comment...
  • mwjfrome17mwjfrome17 Posts: 158

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Astonishing you can wear that and not get arrested (if he wasn't).
    Being a c##t is not a crime.
    Being a racist c%%t is.
    Being against multi-culturalism is not racist.
    Well here is the definition

    Multiculturalism is a situation in which all the different cultural or racial groups in a society have equal rights and opportunities, and none is ignored or regarded as unimportant.

    So being against racial groups having equal rights and opportunities is somehow not racist?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    And how does she plan to make it different enough for Bercow to allow it in the first place?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,888
    It's because these MPs voted against the EU's deal - Three Times! - that we are in danger of Leaving without a deal!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218
    edited March 2019
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, the valuation of Lyft (loss-making) and listed today in the US and suggested valuations for Uber strike me as insane. And a bubble in the making.

    I fear we are re-embarking on the same old boom and bust cycle of before.

    All the new global minicab firms are giant bait and switch merchants. I just use my local minicab firm...
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,628
    rpjs said:

    And how does she plan to make it different enough for Bercow to allow it in the first place?
    By adding on a CU ?

    :wink:
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Astonishing you can wear that and not get arrested (if he wasn't).
    I don't agree with him but why should he be arrested?

    He is not threatening anyone. Are you saying people should now be arrested because they hold and articulate (though I use that word loosely) views that you disagree with?
    Christ on a bike.

    I said absolutely nothing about what I thought or about what should happen, merely that there was a strong likelihood of getting arrested for hate crime for the multiculturism is genocide sign.

    Today of all days you should be basking in the immense pride and joy which must flow from seeing what you and your lot have done to this country. Don't spoil it by picking fights.
    I have no pride in seeing my view of MPs and those like you who scorn democracy confirmed. Though I will admit to a faint sense of regretful satisfaction that I have been proved right about you.
    Democracy Mean's Democracy, so you stick to your guns. I admire you for it.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Astonishing you can wear that and not get arrested (if he wasn't).
    Being a c##t is not a crime.
    Being a racist c%%t is.
    No it is not.
    OK you'll be fine then. Just keep it to yourself.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    In the 2017 GE Brexit was irrelevant to my vote. Keeping Corbyn out of power was the only thing I was interested in. The same will be the case if there is a GE this year. Alas, my vote will make no difference at all as the Labour MP has a large majority. So my choices are:-

    1. Voting for the Lib Dems. These days that’s the electoral equivalent of a pity fuck.
    2. Abstaining in person.
    3. Spoiling my ballot paper by writing rude things on it

    Make sure you draw outside the box! IIRC someone drew a phallus inside one of the boxes and it was accepted as a legitimate vote.
    I think the only possible thing to write on the ballot paper is what Nick Watt quoted on last night’s Newsnight (the TV moment of the year for me) -

    “Fuck knows. I’m past caring. It’s like the living dead.”
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,888
    Chris said:
    If Sadiq became a Tigger - unlikely I know! - you could have a Chuka-Khan dream ticket :)
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,586

    Norm said:



    True but in general we leavers are must more tolerant than you remainers. See this

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1111680500106780674

    Thanks for that. It's already been apparent on the threads on this site for some time, but it's a revealing finding nonetheless.
    This is totally nuts and not easy to believe. Anyone scoring themselves less than a 9 needs to sit down quietly for a bit and have a think. The overwhelming majority of UK people are political moderates and sincere democrats.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Good summing up of some of the atmosphere :

    http://www.twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1111686933825179649

    Parliament doesn't normally slap the British people in the face though
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,888

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Astonishing you can wear that and not get arrested (if he wasn't).
    Being a c##t is not a crime.
    Being a racist c%%t is.
    Being against multi-culturalism is not racist.
    Well here is the definition

    Multiculturalism is a situation in which all the different cultural or racial groups in a society have equal rights and opportunities, and none is ignored or regarded as unimportant.

    So being against racial groups having equal rights and opportunities is somehow not racist?
    Culture does NOT equal race. And I'm speaking as someone wot is non-white!
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,628
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm in a bit of a unique position with regards MPs and Brexit here. My old Tory MP, Lee Rowley has consistently voted against the Gov't implementing the vote.
    But since I moved my new Labour MP, John Mann has consistently voted with the Gov't on the most important issue of the day.....

    The difference is that John Mann is a Leaver voting the same way as almost all Leavers whereas Lee Rowley is a Leaver voting the same way as almost all Remainers.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Astonishing you can wear that and not get arrested (if he wasn't).
    Being a c##t is not a crime.
    Being a racist c%%t is.
    Being against multi-culturalism is not racist.
    Well here is the definition

    Multiculturalism is a situation in which all the different cultural or racial groups in a society have equal rights and opportunities, and none is ignored or regarded as unimportant.

    So being against racial groups having equal rights and opportunities is somehow not racist?
    What you are describing is equality under the law not multiculturalism.
  • isam said:

    Good summing up of some of the atmosphere :

    http://www.twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1111686933825179649

    Parliament doesn't normally slap the British people in the face though
    All the British people ?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    rpjs said:

    And how does she plan to make it different enough for Bercow to allow it in the first place?
    By adding on a CU ?

    :wink:
    'Chuka Umunna' or 'Change UK' (back to how it was when middle class metropolitans were in charge)?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, the valuation of Lyft (loss-making) and listed today in the US and suggested valuations for Uber strike me as insane. And a bubble in the making.

    I fear we are re-embarking on the same old boom and bust cycle of before.

    Well, of course.

    That never ends as long as you have free or free-ish markets. It just takes a different form.

    Human nature.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Chris said:
    If Sadiq became a Tigger - unlikely I know! - you could have a Chuka-Khan dream ticket :)
    Do they see Eye to Eye?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    edited March 2019

    Good summing up of some of the atmosphere :

    http://www.twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1111686933825179649

    I wandered down to Parliament Square after work and saw a couple of banners referring to MPs as traitors. Presumably they think those voting for the deal are the traitors rather than the likes of Nandy who have consistently voted it down.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Good summing up of some of the atmosphere :

    http://www.twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1111686933825179649

    Parliament doesn't normally slap the British people in the face though
    All the British people ?
    Over half!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    May should revoke and immediately resign. New leader has until GE 2022 to come up with an exit that works.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    tlg86 said:

    Good summing up of some of the atmosphere :

    http://www.twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1111686933825179649

    I wandered down to Parliament Square after work and saw a couple of banners referring to MPs as traitors. Presumably they think those voting for the deal are the traitors rather than the likes of Nandy who have consistently voted it down.
    Who knows?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    "I could not consent to the introduction into our national life of a device so alien to all our traditions as the referendum which has only too often been the instrument of Nazism and Fascism."

    referendums are "a device of dictators and demagogues"

    C. Attlee

    Discuss
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2019
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Good summing up of some of the atmosphere :

    http://www.twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1111686933825179649

    Parliament doesn't normally slap the British people in the face though
    All the British people ?
    Over half!
    Not according to current polls, ofcourse ;.) - which may be why the government doesn't want to see that tested..
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Good summing up of some of the atmosphere :

    http://www.twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1111686933825179649

    Parliament doesn't normally slap the British people in the face though
    All the British people ?
    Over half!
    Not according to current polls, ofcourse ;.)
    Not ever really - 37% of the British people.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, the valuation of Lyft (loss-making) and listed today in the US and suggested valuations for Uber strike me as insane. And a bubble in the making.

    I fear we are re-embarking on the same old boom and bust cycle of before.

    Well, of course.

    That never ends as long as you have free or free-ish markets. It just takes a different form.

    Human nature.
    What I found a bit depressing, though I of all people should not have been surprised, was the business correspondent on the Today programme this morning breathlessly reporting all this in tones of awe-struck wonder without bothering to ask the (to me) pretty obvious question as to whether a loss-making mini-cab franchise could possibly be worth $4billion or whatever.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    May should revoke and immediately resign. New leader has until GE 2022 to come up with an exit that works.

    I think she should just revoke on the sly and not tell anyone. Watching the ERG during the dawning realisation would almost make the whole Brexit farrago worthwhile.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    Ishmael_Z said:

    "I could not consent to the introduction into our national life of a device so alien to all our traditions as the referendum which has only too often been the instrument of Nazism and Fascism."

    referendums are "a device of dictators and demagogues"

    C. Attlee

    Discuss


    Attlee's reputation only increases further as more time passes.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    rpjs said:

    And how does she plan to make it different enough for Bercow to allow it in the first place?
    I wonder if a 3-line whip would count?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Good summing up of some of the atmosphere :

    http://www.twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1111686933825179649

    Parliament doesn't normally slap the British people in the face though
    All the British people ?
    Over half!
    Not according to current polls, ofcourse ;.)
    Haha no! Or most of the ones in 2015/16
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Good summing up of some of the atmosphere :

    http://www.twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1111686933825179649

    Parliament doesn't normally slap the British people in the face though
    All the British people ?
    Over half!
    Not according to current polls, ofcourse ;.)
    Not ever really - 37% of the British people.
    "The British People" is usually code for "people like me".
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Ishmael_Z said:

    "I could not consent to the introduction into our national life of a device so alien to all our traditions as the referendum which has only too often been the instrument of Nazism and Fascism."

    referendums are "a device of dictators and demagogues"

    C. Attlee

    Discuss

    Well, it has certainly proved alien to our tradition of Parliamentary democracy.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    Anorak said:

    May should revoke and immediately resign. New leader has until GE 2022 to come up with an exit that works.

    I think she should just revoke on the sly and not tell anyone. Watching the ERG during the dawning realisation would almost make the whole Brexit farrago worthwhile.
    It would be priceless. The EU would not accept it though in thouse circumstances.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Anorak said:

    May should revoke and immediately resign. New leader has until GE 2022 to come up with an exit that works.

    I think she should just revoke on the sly and not tell anyone. Watching the ERG during the dawning realisation would almost make the whole Brexit farrago worthwhile.
    It would be priceless. The EU would not accept it though in thouse circumstances.
    Oh, hush. Don't spoil the dream.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218
    tlg86 said:

    Good summing up of some of the atmosphere :

    http://www.twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1111686933825179649

    I wandered down to Parliament Square after work and saw a couple of banners referring to MPs as traitors. Presumably they think those voting for the deal are the traitors rather than the likes of Nandy who have consistently voted it down.
    Kate Hoey was getting big applause on the Leave stage.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    rpjs said:

    And how does she plan to make it different enough for Bercow to allow it in the first place?
    I wonder if a 3-line whip would count?
    You think MV1, 2 and 3 weren't 3-line whipped?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,725

    Ishmael_Z said:

    "I could not consent to the introduction into our national life of a device so alien to all our traditions as the referendum which has only too often been the instrument of Nazism and Fascism."

    referendums are "a device of dictators and demagogues"

    C. Attlee

    Discuss

    Attlee's reputation only increases further as more time passes.
    I think he bears at least as much responsibility for our current problems as any other post-war PM.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218

    rpjs said:

    And how does she plan to make it different enough for Bercow to allow it in the first place?
    I wonder if a 3-line whip would count?
    Haven't the votes already been 3 line whipped ?!
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2019

    Ishmael_Z said:

    "I could not consent to the introduction into our national life of a device so alien to all our traditions as the referendum which has only too often been the instrument of Nazism and Fascism."

    referendums are "a device of dictators and demagogues"

    C. Attlee

    Discuss


    Attlee's reputation only increases further as more time passes.
    Yes. He also fits into no neat categories. A privately educated middle class man who did more to improve the conditions of working-class people in Britain than anyone else in his century, and deposed a war hero to do that.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    rpjs said:

    And how does she plan to make it different enough for Bercow to allow it in the first place?
    By adding on a CU ?

    :wink:

    or a PV :smile:
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Anorak said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Good summing up of some of the atmosphere :

    http://www.twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1111686933825179649

    Parliament doesn't normally slap the British people in the face though
    All the British people ?
    Over half!
    Not according to current polls, ofcourse ;.)
    Not ever really - 37% of the British people.
    "The British People" is usually code for "people like me".
    In this case it just meant people who voted for the winners of the 2016 referendum, which does include me though I suppose.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    Ishmael_Z said:

    "I could not consent to the introduction into our national life of a device so alien to all our traditions as the referendum which has only too often been the instrument of Nazism and Fascism."

    referendums are "a device of dictators and demagogues"

    C. Attlee

    Discuss

    Attlee's reputation only increases further as more time passes.
    I think he bears at least as much responsibility for our current problems as any other post-war PM.
    Er... as much as Cameron and May??
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    May should revoke and immediately resign. New leader has until GE 2022 to come up with an exit that works.

    I think she should just revoke on the sly and not tell anyone. Watching the ERG during the dawning realisation would almost make the whole Brexit farrago worthwhile.
    It would be priceless. The EU would not accept it though in thouse circumstances.
    Oh, hush. Don't spoil the dream.

    Soz
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    isam said:

    Anorak said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Good summing up of some of the atmosphere :

    http://www.twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1111686933825179649

    Parliament doesn't normally slap the British people in the face though
    All the British people ?
    Over half!
    Not according to current polls, ofcourse ;.)
    Not ever really - 37% of the British people.
    "The British People" is usually code for "people like me".
    In this case it just meant people who voted for the winners of the 2016 referendum, which does include me though I suppose.
    Fair enough. I'm just a little fed up with people wittering on about The Democratic Will Of The People in a narrowly-squeaked [Pyrrhic] victory.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    isam said:

    Anorak said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Good summing up of some of the atmosphere :

    http://www.twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1111686933825179649

    Parliament doesn't normally slap the British people in the face though
    All the British people ?
    Over half!
    Not according to current polls, ofcourse ;.)
    Not ever really - 37% of the British people.
    "The British People" is usually code for "people like me".
    In this case it just meant people who voted for the winners of the 2016 referendum, which does include me though I suppose.
    But it was not "over half" of the British people just to be clear.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218

    rpjs said:

    And how does she plan to make it different enough for Bercow to allow it in the first place?
    By adding on a CU ?

    :wink:

    or a PV :smile:
    CU might get the numbers needed, PV won't.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    Pulpstar said:

    rpjs said:

    And how does she plan to make it different enough for Bercow to allow it in the first place?
    By adding on a CU ?

    :wink:

    or a PV :smile:
    CU might get the numbers needed, PV won't.
    Sadly, I think you are right. Who knows though - I've not given up yet!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited March 2019
    Anorak said:

    isam said:

    Anorak said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Good summing up of some of the atmosphere :

    http://www.twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1111686933825179649

    Parliament doesn't normally slap the British people in the face though
    All the British people ?
    Over half!
    Not according to current polls, ofcourse ;.)
    Not ever really - 37% of the British people.
    "The British People" is usually code for "people like me".
    In this case it just meant people who voted for the winners of the 2016 referendum, which does include me though I suppose.
    Fair enough. I'm just a little fed up with people wittering on about The Democratic Will Of The People in a narrowly-squeaked [Pyrrhic] victory.
    Unfortunate that is (usually) the way with binary choices. Manchester United did the treble in 1999, despite being battered in the CL final, winning the league on the last day of the season and being a penalty kick away from losing the cup semi... but ‘look in the book’ as they say.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,725

    Ishmael_Z said:

    "I could not consent to the introduction into our national life of a device so alien to all our traditions as the referendum which has only too often been the instrument of Nazism and Fascism."

    referendums are "a device of dictators and demagogues"

    C. Attlee

    Discuss

    Attlee's reputation only increases further as more time passes.
    I think he bears at least as much responsibility for our current problems as any other post-war PM.
    Er... as much as Cameron and May??
    Not directly, but if he'd taken European integration more seriously in those initial years it would have saved us an awful lot of problems later on.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Ishmael_Z said:

    "I could not consent to the introduction into our national life of a device so alien to all our traditions as the referendum which has only too often been the instrument of Nazism and Fascism."

    referendums are "a device of dictators and demagogues"

    C. Attlee

    Discuss

    Attlee's reputation only increases further as more time passes.
    I think he bears at least as much responsibility for our current problems as any other post-war PM.
    Er... as much as Cameron and May??
    I assume he’s somewhat responsible for the NHS always being hours away from failure?
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    Change Uk need some boring middle of the road music like James Blunt. If he joined them he could be CU Jimmy
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Good summing up of some of the atmosphere :

    http://www.twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1111686933825179649

    I wandered down to Parliament Square after work and saw a couple of banners referring to MPs as traitors. Presumably they think those voting for the deal are the traitors rather than the likes of Nandy who have consistently voted it down.
    Kate Hoey was getting big applause on the Leave stage.
    Presumably as a disorientated urban fox crossed the stage and the unspeakable Hoey ate the uneatable?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Ishmael_Z said:

    "I could not consent to the introduction into our national life of a device so alien to all our traditions as the referendum which has only too often been the instrument of Nazism and Fascism."

    referendums are "a device of dictators and demagogues"

    C. Attlee

    Discuss

    Attlee's reputation only increases further as more time passes.
    I think he bears at least as much responsibility for our current problems as any other post-war PM.
    Er... as much as Cameron and May??
    Not directly, but if he'd taken European integration more seriously in those initial years it would have saved us an awful lot of problems later on.
    The solution to everything: more Europe.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497
    On a lighter note, it gives me some satisfaction to see the revoke petition has still not reached 6 million.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    British actors sex offenders are the funniest in the world

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-47748361

    "he was found guilty of performing a sex act under cover of a juggler's hat."
    and
    "he was drunk and thought the 2p slot machine was a urinal"
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited March 2019

    isam said:

    Anorak said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Good summing up of some of the atmosphere :

    http://www.twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1111686933825179649

    Parliament doesn't normally slap the British people in the face though
    All the British people ?
    Over half!
    Not according to current polls, ofcourse ;.)
    Not ever really - 37% of the British people.
    "The British People" is usually code for "people like me".
    In this case it just meant people who voted for the winners of the 2016 referendum, which does include me though I suppose.
    But it was not "over half" of the British people just to be clear.
    I assumed we were intelligent enough on here not to have to go through the banality of that argument
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Four hours until LINO (Leave In Name Only) Everyone Ready? :D
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    "I could not consent to the introduction into our national life of a device so alien to all our traditions as the referendum which has only too often been the instrument of Nazism and Fascism."

    referendums are "a device of dictators and demagogues"

    C. Attlee

    Discuss

    Well, it has certainly proved alien to our tradition of Parliamentary democracy.
    Which is why the only way to preserve our tradition of parliamentary sovereignty is not to hold the things at all, or to treat the results as strictly advisory. Which is why it is irksome to hear historically illiterate Leavers doing the "Did Magna Carta die in vain" schtick while advocating the violation of the constitution.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    RobD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    "I could not consent to the introduction into our national life of a device so alien to all our traditions as the referendum which has only too often been the instrument of Nazism and Fascism."

    referendums are "a device of dictators and demagogues"

    C. Attlee

    Discuss

    Attlee's reputation only increases further as more time passes.
    I think he bears at least as much responsibility for our current problems as any other post-war PM.
    Er... as much as Cameron and May??
    I assume he’s somewhat responsible for the NHS always being hours away from failure?
    Well, if it hadn't been for him, they would have had nothing to write on the bus.
  • Anorak said:

    British actors sex offenders are the funniest in the world

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-47748361

    "he was found guilty of performing a sex act under cover of a juggler's hat."
    and
    "he was drunk and thought the 2p slot machine was a urinal"

    Every hole is a goal.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    "I could not consent to the introduction into our national life of a device so alien to all our traditions as the referendum which has only too often been the instrument of Nazism and Fascism."

    referendums are "a device of dictators and demagogues"

    C. Attlee

    Discuss

    Well, it has certainly proved alien to our tradition of Parliamentary democracy.
    Which is why the only way to preserve our tradition of parliamentary sovereignty is not to hold the things at all, or to treat the results as strictly advisory. Which is why it is irksome to hear historically illiterate Leavers doing the "Did Magna Carta die in vain" schtick while advocating the violation of the constitution.
    And yet, some people seem to want another one!
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    I've not had much time to assimilate all the info about what's been going on today, but my understanding is as follows:

    1. The Deal has been defeated for a third time, but May is likely to attempt to bring it back for a fourth. Dead horse flogging to continue ad nauseam.
    2. Brexit Day is now scheduled for April 12th, but the effective deadline for Parliament voting for any option that might lead to Brexit with a Withdrawal Agreement is April 9th, because the European Council expects any proposal to arrive with it for consideration no later than the 10th.
    3. MPs are going to attempt to find a majority for a way forward again on Monday. If they're still deadlocked after that then it's still theoretically possible that they could settle on something through one or two more rounds of voting, though more likely the remaining week thereafter will be eaten up by mutual recrimination and the attempts of the Government to somehow secure MV4.
    4. Therefore, if Parliament doesn't vote for a positive outcome on April Fools' Day that the EU can accept - and I don't see much likelihood of anything other than a Deal vs Remain referendum coming to pass at this stage - then MPs are either going to have to resort to the Revoke panic button (probably on the 10th or the 11th, once any lingering hope of any other possible way out of No Deal is dead,) or they will simply sit there like a complete field of wet lettuces and hand total victory to Andrew Bridgen, Bill Cash and the rest of the diehards.

    Or is there anything vital that I'm missing here?
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    If only the EU would kick us out. It would implement the referendum, free us from Temainers trying to block it, and allow us to get on with the rest of our lives.
  • Anorak said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Good summing up of some of the atmosphere :

    http://www.twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1111686933825179649

    Parliament doesn't normally slap the British people in the face though
    All the British people ?
    Over half!
    Not according to current polls, ofcourse ;.)
    Not ever really - 37% of the British people.
    "The British People" is usually code for "people like me".
    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/eu-referendum-results-wigan-leave-11518194
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780

    On a lighter note, it gives me some satisfaction to see the revoke petition has still not reached 6 million.

    There's a herd thing there. I really don't know if its the power of social media genuinely percolating themes, or whether it is in fact idiots (who may or may not work in the Kremlin) pumping the numbers. There will of course be a degree of both.

    I will say though that should I ever meet someone who signed the revoke petition then I'll hold them forever-more in low esteem. Sort of surprising that I genuinely don't know a single person who has said they'd signed - admittedly I've not asked.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,888
    edited March 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    rpjs said:

    And how does she plan to make it different enough for Bercow to allow it in the first place?
    By adding on a CU ?

    :wink:

    or a PV :smile:
    CU might get the numbers needed, PV won't.
    As Depeche Mode sang back in 1982:

    "All I want to do is CU again
    Is that too much to ask for?"
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,888
    GIN1138 said:

    Four hours until LINO (Leave In Name Only) Everyone Ready? :D

    Happy NON-Independence Day, peeps :lol:
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,621
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Well, here is one Brexiteering sinner who abjectly repents, in so many ways. William Glenn was right and I was wrong. Brexit is undeliverable in any meaningful way that doesn’t severely damage the country.

    Revote. Or revoke. We have been defeated.

    It's usual to quote Luke 15:10 at this point but frankly I feel too sorry for genuine Leavers who have been well and truly led up the garden path.

    Commiserations.
    Thankyou Peter.

    I actually think the entire country has been betrayed by the entire political class, Left to Right, Remain to Leave. Europhiles were arrogant idiots for integrating us so deeply, without our consent, and denying us all those promised referendums.

    Just one vote - on Maastricht or the Constitution or Lisbon - would have vented the public’s anger, integration would have stopped, and Brexit would not have existed as a word, let alone a political calamity.

    But the behaviour of the hardcore Leavers since the vote has been as misguided and as shortsighted - as witlessly damaging - as anything europhiles ever did. I was wrong to align myself with them.

    It is so depressing I am going to bow out of PB for quite a while. Possibly forever. My heart is not in it any more. I will of course honour any outstanding bets.

    I wish everyone the best. May God look upon us mercifully. Goodbye.
    Please don't go. You add a lot. We'll really miss you.
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    rpjs said:

    And how does she plan to make it different enough for Bercow to allow it in the first place?

    I hope this is not the case. It’s a deal with nothing going for it. In the national interest, May should quit now. She is making the country a laughing stock for a deal with no redeeming features.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    "I could not consent to the introduction into our national life of a device so alien to all our traditions as the referendum which has only too often been the instrument of Nazism and Fascism."

    referendums are "a device of dictators and demagogues"

    C. Attlee

    Discuss

    Well, it has certainly proved alien to our tradition of Parliamentary democracy.
    Which is why the only way to preserve our tradition of parliamentary sovereignty is not to hold the things at all, or to treat the results as strictly advisory. Which is why it is irksome to hear historically illiterate Leavers doing the "Did Magna Carta die in vain" schtick while advocating the violation of the constitution.
    And yet, some people seem to want another one!
    I suspect that for everyone that does, there's 99 who see tactical value in pretending to want one.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    GIN1138 said:

    Four hours until LINO (Leave In Name Only) Everyone Ready? :D

    Happy NON-Independence Day, peeps :lol:
    We took back control and then our MPs didn't know what the **** to do with it. :D
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    edited March 2019
    GIN1138 said:

    Four hours until LINO (Leave In Name Only) Everyone Ready? :D

    It's not though is it? It's NLAA (Not Leaving At All) today.

    (In any event LINO has already been reserved for T May.)
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445

    Norm said:



    True but in general we leavers are must more tolerant than you remainers. See this

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1111680500106780674

    Thanks for that. It's already been apparent on the threads on this site for some time, but it's a revealing finding nonetheless.
    Can’t argue with that. Remainers loyalty to Brussels overrides their respect for democracy and free speech.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    edited March 2019
    Omnium said:

    On a lighter note, it gives me some satisfaction to see the revoke petition has still not reached 6 million.

    There's a herd thing there. I really don't know if its the power of social media genuinely percolating themes, or whether it is in fact idiots (who may or may not work in the Kremlin) pumping the numbers. There will of course be a degree of both.

    I will say though that should I ever meet someone who signed the revoke petition then I'll hold them forever-more in low esteem. Sort of surprising that I genuinely don't know a single person who has said they'd signed - admittedly I've not asked.
    I signed. My wife signed. I've not asked anyone else.

    I shall just have to live with your low esteem forever more. I'll try to bear it.

    PS I suspect there will be a push to get it over 6m before it is debated on Monday.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218

    On a lighter note, it gives me some satisfaction to see the revoke petition has still not reached 6 million.

    https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=233104
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    GIN1138 said:

    Four hours until LINO (Leave In Name Only) Everyone Ready? :D

    It's not though is it? It's NLAA (Not Leaving At All) today.

    (In any event LINO has already been reserved for T May.)
    Well personally I'm still leaving at 11pm.... I don't know what your doing? :D
This discussion has been closed.