Leave leaders made a mistake in not actively getting rid of this mob and denouncing their Xenophobia. It would have made Brexit have broader appeal post referendum.
She wouldn't have got that from the Remain crowd. No police necessary. That's the difference.
That's because they are voting to Remain!
Farage has been attacked on more than one occasion, and I doubt it was by Leavers
The Remain crowd of a million had zero police presence. The police had done the risk assessment and knew there was no risk. The Farage Sunderland march of 150(?) had six police in yellow jackets.
I’ll sell a million and buy at zero
The numbers aren't the point. The difference is the behaviour. Whose side do you want to be on. The tattooed yobs (plus Trump and Putin)?
Its genuinely mystifying to me how a vaguely intelligent person can't see how stupifyingly cretinous it is to base a political decision on whether 'the tatooed yobs' belong to the other side. What sort of imbeciles have we bred?
So I was wondering what couldn't actually be worse than the current mess in the UK. Here's my tentative list:
1) A military coup 2) The Queen suspending Parliament and reinstating Divine Right 3) "I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords" 4) Case Nightmare Green*
* from Charles Stross's "Laundry" Lovecraftian horror novels, where in the latest installment the stars have come right and the PM is in fact the Black Pharaoh Nyarlathotep.
She wouldn't have got that from the Remain crowd. No police necessary. That's the difference.
That's because they are voting to Remain!
Farage has been attacked on more than one occasion, and I doubt it was by Leavers
The Remain crowd of a million had zero police presence. The police had done the risk assessment and knew there was no risk. The Farage Sunderland march of 150(?) had six police in yellow jackets.
I’ll sell a million and buy at zero
The numbers aren't the point. The difference is the behaviour. Whose side do you want to be on. The tattooed yobs (plus Trump and Putin)?
Its genuinely mystifying to me how a vaguely intelligent person can't see how stupifyingly cretinous it is to base a political decision on whether 'the tatooed yobs' belong to the other side. What sort of imbeciles have we bred?
Stupefyingly cretinous is perhaps better used to describe the mob currently causing problems in Whitehall.
Leave being hijacked by Tommy Robinson . The anger mongers will always find a vehicle to hijack .
Whether you voted Leave or Remain to see the UK descending into such division is very sad.
Speaking more broadly than just about the various ultras, this kind of division is what comes of having years and years of rolling 24 hour media coverage dominated by a single issue. Vast swathes of people who may previously have had little interest in the matter in question start to develop convinced views about it, and disagreement between those holding contrary opinions becomes progressively more widespread in society.
See also: the Scottish independence chasm.
Disagree: social media echo chambers rather than rolling news. TV news (and even online news indexes) are a minority sport and generally balanced; the damage comes from sitting all day on your phone watching your mates share highly factual details of how the Lisbon Treaty will make you rent your spare bedroom to Bulgarians from 2020.
She wouldn't have got that from the Remain crowd. No police necessary. That's the difference.
That's because they are voting to Remain!
Farage has been attacked on more than one occasion, and I doubt it was by Leavers
The Remain crowd of a million had zero police presence. The police had done the risk assessment and knew there was no risk. The Farage Sunderland march of 150(?) had six police in yellow jackets.
I’ll sell a million and buy at zero
The numbers aren't the point. The difference is the behaviour. Whose side do you want to be on. The tattooed yobs (plus Trump and Putin)?
Its genuinely mystifying to me how a vaguely intelligent person can't see how stupifyingly cretinous it is to base a political decision on whether 'the tatooed yobs' belong to the other side. What sort of imbeciles have we bred?
Aren’t all Remainers are pro Iraq War because of Alastair Campbell?
So I was wondering what couldn't actually be worse than the current mess in the UK. Here's my tentative list:
1) A military coup 2) The Queen suspending Parliament and reinstating Divine Right 3) "I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords" 4) Case Nightmare Green*
* from Charles Stross's "Laundry" Lovecraftian horror novels, where in the latest installment the stars have come right and the PM is in fact the Black Pharaoh Nyarlathotep.
Leave leaders made a mistake in not actively getting rid of this mob and denouncing their Xenophobia. It would have made Brexit have broader appeal post referendum.
She wouldn't have got that from the Remain crowd. No police necessary. That's the difference.
That's because they are voting to Remain!
Farage has been attacked on more than one occasion, and I doubt it was by Leavers
The Remain crowd of a million had zero police presence. The police had done the risk assessment and knew there was no risk. The Farage Sunderland march of 150(?) had six police in yellow jackets.
I’ll sell a million and buy at zero
The numbers aren't the point. The difference is the behaviour. Whose side do you want to be on. The tattooed yobs (plus Trump and Putin)?
You have a large crowd who voted for something, were promised that their wishes would be implemented and now they perceive that the politicians are reneging on their promises. Wouldn't you be angry? Dangerous is a people's voice charged with wrath.
The trouble with any kind of extension, is the EU elections issue. These elections will be won by Farage's Brexit Party, and his new party will be established in public mind.
He will then be running at next GE on a full blown betrayal of the People act. Dangerous waters.
Are you sure? The Brexit vote will split between Con / UKIP / Brexit / Lots of UKIP splinters I reckon Labour might do quite well.
I just cant see the Tories, as the party that failed to deliver Brexit, being backed by Leavers
I don't think logic has much to do with these things. The Tories are clearly more leavey than Labour and I have a feeling that will get the leavers voting blue. Likewise remainers are likely at their wits end with Labour - but who else can they vote for if they don't want to let the people who have messed everything up back in.
I predict a rerun of 2017.
Sorry, we have our wires crossed, I meant the Euro Elections.
If we get as far as holding European Parliament elections then it goes without saying that the outcome could be rather unpredictable - although if I had to stick my neck out then I would guess that the main casualty in such a poll would be Labour.
I guess the dynamic is Con/UKIP/Brexit/BNP fighting over the Brexit votes, LD/TIG/Green/Nats fighting over the Remain votes, and Corbyn talking about jobs and housing and austerity. I wouldn't underestimate the constituency for the latter, a lot of voters are just not into the whole brexit thing either way.
The dynamic of a European vote is very different to that of a General Election - and Ukip have already denuded so much of the Tory vote that I reckon they haven't much further to drop. Labour, on the other hand, has Jeremy Corbyn's record of ambiguity over Europhilia and heel-dragging on the People's Vote to contend with, along with the artists formerly known as TIG. Hence my hunch that Labour might have the more to lose in this casee
Yes, I can see how that might be right, I just think the proportion of the voters who want to hear about stuff other than brexit must easily be 40%, and just because it's a Euro election doesn't mean people who aren't all about Europe won't vote in it.
She wouldn't have got that from the Remain crowd. No police necessary. That's the difference.
That's because they are voting to Remain!
Farage has been attacked on more than one occasion, and I doubt it was by Leavers
The Remain crowd of a million had zero police presence. The police had done the risk assessment and knew there was no risk. The Farage Sunderland march of 150(?) had six police in yellow jackets.
No police at all? Find that hard to believe.
There were some, but they definitely weren't needed.
Thanks, yet more fake news I see. Were the police needed in Sunderland?
Leave leaders made a mistake in not actively getting rid of this mob and denouncing their Xenophobia. It would have made Brexit have broader appeal post referendum.
True.
Anyone that anyone has heard of left UKIP long ago because of Robinson, who was nothing to do with the 2016 campaign or 2017 GE
She wouldn't have got that from the Remain crowd. No police necessary. That's the difference.
That's because they are voting to Remain!
Farage has been attacked on more than one occasion, and I doubt it was by Leavers
The Remain crowd of a million had zero police presence. The police had done the risk assessment and knew there was no risk. The Farage Sunderland march of 150(?) had six police in yellow jackets.
I’ll sell a million and buy at zero
The numbers aren't the point. The difference is the behaviour. Whose side do you want to be on. The tattooed yobs (plus Trump and Putin)?
Its genuinely mystifying to me how a vaguely intelligent person can't see how stupifyingly cretinous it is to base a political decision on whether 'the tatooed yobs' belong to the other side. What sort of imbeciles have we bred?
Isn't it reasonable to judge people by the company they keep?
So I was wondering what couldn't actually be worse than the current mess in the UK. Here's my tentative list:
1) A military coup 2) The Queen suspending Parliament and reinstating Divine Right 3) "I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords" 4) Case Nightmare Green*
* from Charles Stross's "Laundry" Lovecraftian horror novels, where in the latest installment the stars have come right and the PM is in fact the Black Pharaoh Nyarlathotep.
Any more suggestions?
Sunderland losing on Sunday. (I wouldn't mind Lizzie reinstating Divine Right, as long as it wasn't heriditory)
She wouldn't have got that from the Remain crowd. No police necessary. That's the difference.
That's because they are voting to Remain!
Farage has been attacked on more than one occasion, and I doubt it was by Leavers
The Remain crowd of a million had zero police presence. The police had done the risk assessment and knew there was no risk. The Farage Sunderland march of 150(?) had six police in yellow jackets.
I’ll sell a million and buy at zero
The numbers aren't the point. The difference is the behaviour. Whose side do you want to be on. The tattooed yobs (plus Trump and Putin)?
You have a large crowd who voted for something, were promised that their wishes would be implemented and now they perceive that the politicians are reneging on their promises. Wouldn't you be angry? Dangerous is a people's voice charged with wrath.
The trouble with any kind of extension, is the EU elections issue. These elections will be won by Farage's Brexit Party, and his new party will be established in public mind.
He will then be running at next GE on a full blown betrayal of the People act. Dangerous waters.
Are you sure? The Brexit vote will split between Con / UKIP / Brexit / Lots of UKIP splinters I reckon Labour might do quite well.
I just cant see the Tories, as the party that failed to deliver Brexit, being backed by Leavers
I don't think logic has much to do with these things. The Tories are clearly more leavey than Labour and I have a feeling that will get the leavers voting blue. Likewise remainers are likely at their wits end with Labour - but who else can they vote for if they don't want to let the people who have messed everything up back in.
I predict a rerun of 2017.
Sorry, we have our wires crossed, I meant the Euro Elections.
If we get as far as holding European Parliament elections then it goes without saying that the outcome could be rather unpredictable - although if I had to stick my neck out then I would guess that the main casualty in such a poll would be Labour.
I guess the dynamic is Con/UKIP/Brexit/BNP fighting over the Brexit votes, LD/TIG/Green/Nats fighting over the Remain votes, and Corbyn talking about jobs and housing and austerity. I wouldn't underestimate the constituency for the latter, a lot of voters are just not into the whole brexit thing either way.
The dynamic of a European vote is very different to that of a General Election - and Ukip have already denuded so much of the Tory vote that I reckon they haven't much further to drop. Labour, on the other hand, has Jeremy Corbyn's record of ambiguity over Europhilia and heel-dragging on the People's Vote to contend with, along with the artists formerly known as TIG. Hence my hunch that Labour might have the more to lose in this casee
Yes, I can see how that might be right, I just think the proportion of the voters who want to hear about stuff other than brexit must easily be 40%, and just because it's a Euro election doesn't mean people who aren't all about Europe won't vote in it.
Remember, EU citizens are eligible to vote in EU elections. How many are going to vote Conservative?
She wouldn't have got that from the Remain crowd. No police necessary. That's the difference.
That's because they are voting to Remain!
Farage has been attacked on more than one occasion, and I doubt it was by Leavers
The Remain crowd of a million had zero police presence. The police had done the risk assessment and knew there was no risk. The Farage Sunderland march of 150(?) had six police in yellow jackets.
I’ll sell a million and buy at zero
The numbers aren't the point. The difference is the behaviour. Whose side do you want to be on. The tattooed yobs (plus Trump and Putin)?
Its genuinely mystifying to me how a vaguely intelligent person can't see how stupifyingly cretinous it is to base a political decision on whether 'the tatooed yobs' belong to the other side. What sort of imbeciles have we bred?
Isn't it reasonable to judge people by the company they keep?
People are being judged by company they don’t keep
Leave leaders made a mistake in not actively getting rid of this mob and denouncing their Xenophobia. It would have made Brexit have broader appeal post referendum.
True.
Anyone that anyone has heard of left UKIP long ago because of Robinson, who was nothing to do with the 2016 campaign or 2017 GE
He'll be used to smear the whole rally now.
This is why Cummings and Vote Leave didn't want anything to do with Banks and Leave.EU during the referendum.
Off topic, the valuation of Lyft (loss-making) and listed today in the US and suggested valuations for Uber strike me as insane. And a bubble in the making.
I fear we are re-embarking on the same old boom and bust cycle of before.
I think we've been in the boom part of the boom and bust cycle for quite a while now*.
* As regards valuations of certain high tech startups
Uber valuation is insane, it's a very narrow moat business, with IP that can be easily replicated
I don't understand how it helps tacking wording about a customs union onto the current Withdrawal Agreement. Firstly it's functionally irrelevant, since if the WA is passed then we remain in the customs union during the transition period, and the existence or otherwise of a permanent customs union can be determined in the negotiations on the future relationship during that time. Secondly, it solves none of the other objections that MPs have to the WA. Thirdly, the prospect of such a thing effectively wrecks the pursuit of an independent trade policy, and may even shove some of the ERG waverers who backed MV3 back into the no camp again for MV4. Finally, Corbyn is bound to complain that it doesn't go far enough and whip against it regardless.
The Deal has already been done to death. I stand to be corrected, but the only way I see it making it onto the statute book is if it comes with a referendum attached. If that can't gain majority support on Monday, then we're probably down to Panic Revoke versus No Deal.
Leave leaders made a mistake in not actively getting rid of this mob and denouncing their Xenophobia. It would have made Brexit have broader appeal post referendum.
True.
Anyone that anyone has heard of left UKIP long ago because of Robinson, who was nothing to do with the 2016 campaign or 2017 GE
He'll be used to smear the whole rally now.
This is why Cummings and Vote Leave didn't want anything to do with Banks and Leave.EU during the referendum.
No doubt he will, but he wasn’t anything to do with LeaveEU or Banks. Vote Leave wanted to avoid talking about immigration and involving Farage. This podcast talks a lot about it, very good
Leave being hijacked by Tommy Robinson . The anger mongers will always find a vehicle to hijack .
Whether you voted Leave or Remain to see the UK descending into such division is very sad.
Speaking more broadly than just about the various ultras, this kind of division is what comes of having years and years of rolling 24 hour media coverage dominated by a single issue. Vast swathes of people who may previously have had little interest in the matter in question start to develop convinced views about it, and disagreement between those holding contrary opinions becomes progressively more widespread in society.
See also: the Scottish independence chasm.
Disagree: social media echo chambers rather than rolling news. TV news (and even online news indexes) are a minority sport and generally balanced; the damage comes from sitting all day on your phone watching your mates share highly factual details of how the Lisbon Treaty will make you rent your spare bedroom to Bulgarians from 2020.
Indeed. I wouldn't dream of associating myself with it.
Leavers need to excise this actively from their movement and the sentiments that drive it. This is not part of what motivates most Leavers.
Tommy Robinson has nothing to do with my movement.
I find him abhorrent.
I know you do. They do not represent you. However...
Some of the language prominent Leavers have used like “traitor” and “saboteur” have not helped one bit. Instead there should have more of an effort to remove them and attract normal folk that may simply disagree with Leave.
So I was wondering what couldn't actually be worse than the current mess in the UK. Here's my tentative list:
1) A military coup 2) The Queen suspending Parliament and reinstating Divine Right 3) "I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords" 4) Case Nightmare Green*
* from Charles Stross's "Laundry" Lovecraftian horror novels, where in the latest installment the stars have come right and the PM is in fact the Black Pharaoh Nyarlathotep.
Any more suggestions?
Skynet reaching self-awareness and launching the nukes as the boffins try to pull the plug?
She wouldn't have got that from the Remain crowd. No police necessary. That's the difference.
That's because they are voting to Remain!
Farage has been attacked on more than one occasion, and I doubt it was by Leavers
The Remain crowd of a million had zero police presence. The police had done the risk assessment and knew there was no risk. The Farage Sunderland march of 150(?) had six police in yellow jackets.
I’ll sell a million and buy at zero
The numbers aren't the point. The difference is the behaviour. Whose side do you want to be on. The tattooed yobs (plus Trump and Putin)?
Its genuinely mystifying to me how a vaguely intelligent person can't see how stupifyingly cretinous it is to base a political decision on whether 'the tatooed yobs' belong to the other side. What sort of imbeciles have we bred?
As such a keen fan of Putin, you should well know that nasty politicians throughout history have used the equivalent of 'tatooed yobs' to further their interests. Therefore it's perfectly natural to be concerned when 'tatooed yobs' get involved with politics.
There’s a photo from Pompeii that’s been doing the internet rounds a while, showing the plaster cast of a naked man. He appears to have died masturbating, even as he must have known the Vesuvian ash-cloud was approaching. Did he? Science says it’s a bit more complicated than that – but science isn’t important right now, because in every psychological aspect, that guy is the Conservative party. No matter what holy terror was raining down upon our land, no matter what the peril, the Conservative party would always decide to crack out a leadership contest.
And so, inevitably, to the situation in which we find ourselves at this moment of national crisis, with Theresa May having agreed to depart. The mad bastards of the Tory party are at it again, in a competition you should think of as Mastershit: The Professionals.
May’s Deal goes down a third time, and she is reportedly considering an election that will likely finish the government. The EU make No Deal (and a British economic collapse) their central planning assumption. A fascist mob congregate in Whitehall. Vote Leave finally concede their campaign broke the law. The Revoke petition edges ever closer to 6 million.
WA then passes. Theresa goes. Con change leaders. We have a general election where CU and PD are torn up (if people vote for that) and then with a fresh mandate and a fresh parliament the next government negotiates on a new PD.
I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.
She wouldn't have got that from the Remain crowd. No police necessary. That's the difference.
That's because they are voting to Remain!
Farage has been attacked on more than one occasion, and I doubt it was by Leavers
The Remain crowd of a million had zero police presence. The police had done the risk assessment and knew there was no risk. The Farage Sunderland march of 150(?) had six police in yellow jackets.
I’ll sell a million and buy at zero
The numbers aren't the point. The difference is the behaviour. Whose side do you want to be on. The tattooed yobs (plus Trump and Putin)?
Its genuinely mystifying to me how a vaguely intelligent person can't see how stupifyingly cretinous it is to base a political decision on whether 'the tatooed yobs' belong to the other side. What sort of imbeciles have we bred?
Isn't it reasonable to judge people by the company they keep?
People are being judged by company they don’t keep
Reason I was reluctant to go on the Remain March was because I know from experience how easy it is for groups I dislike to hijack an event, and no matter how careful you are it's easy to get caught up in nasty stuff that has nothing to do with you. I advised the gf and her dog not to go because of my concerns, and they stayed away, but as it happens, I needn't have worried.
Didn't go tonite so I can't speak from experience, but the rushes don't look good.
There’s a photo from Pompeii that’s been doing the internet rounds a while, showing the plaster cast of a naked man. He appears to have died masturbating, even as he must have known the Vesuvian ash-cloud was approaching. Did he? Science says it’s a bit more complicated than that – but science isn’t important right now, because in every psychological aspect, that guy is the Conservative party. No matter what holy terror was raining down upon our land, no matter what the peril, the Conservative party would always decide to crack out a leadership contest.
And so, inevitably, to the situation in which we find ourselves at this moment of national crisis, with Theresa May having agreed to depart. The mad bastards of the Tory party are at it again, in a competition you should think of as Mastershit: The Professionals.
She wouldn't have got that from the Remain crowd. No police necessary. That's the difference.
That's because they are voting to Remain!
Farage has been attacked on more than one occasion, and I doubt it was by Leavers
The Remain crowd of a million had zero police presence. The police had done the risk assessment and knew there was no risk. The Farage Sunderland march of 150(?) had six police in yellow jackets.
I’ll sell a million and buy at zero
The numbers aren't the point. The difference is the behaviour. Whose side do you want to be on. The tattooed yobs (plus Trump and Putin)?
Its genuinely mystifying to me how a vaguely intelligent person can't see how stupifyingly cretinous it is to base a political decision on whether 'the tatooed yobs' belong to the other side. What sort of imbeciles have we bred?
As such a keen fan of Putin, you should well know that nasty politicians throughout history have used the equivalent of 'tatooed yobs' to further their interests. Therefore it's perfectly natural to be concerned when 'tatooed yobs' get involved with politics.
And we are being obliquely threatened with exactly these people in the portentous warnings from the Brexit mean's Brexit brigade about how we will rue the day if the democratic will of 17 million voters is ignored.
I don't understand how it helps tacking wording about a customs union onto the current Withdrawal Agreement. Firstly it's functionally irrelevant, since if the WA is passed then we remain in the customs union during the transition period, and the existence or otherwise of a permanent customs union can be determined in the negotiations on the future relationship during that time. Secondly, it solves none of the other objections that MPs have to the WA. Thirdly, the prospect of such a thing effectively wrecks the pursuit of an independent trade policy, and may even shove some of the ERG waverers who backed MV3 back into the no camp again for MV4. Finally, Corbyn is bound to complain that it doesn't go far enough and whip against it regardless.
The Deal has already been done to death. I stand to be corrected, but the only way I see it making it onto the statute book is if it comes with a referendum attached. If that can't gain majority support on Monday, then we're probably down to Panic Revoke versus No Deal.
I agree with nearly all of this, the CU seems like it'll ultimately be a blind alley, and the referendum is the only known way out of the treacle. OTOH a vote to discuss and investigate it should be enough to hang an extension on.
She wouldn't have got that from the Remain crowd. No police necessary. That's the difference.
That's because they are voting to Remain!
Farage has been attacked on more than one occasion, and I doubt it was by Leavers
The Remain crowd of a million had zero police presence. The police had done the risk assessment and knew there was no risk. The Farage Sunderland march of 150(?) had six police in yellow jackets.
I’ll sell a million and buy at zero
The numbers aren't the point. The difference is the behaviour. Whose side do you want to be on. The tattooed yobs (plus Trump and Putin)?
Its genuinely mystifying to me how a vaguely intelligent person can't see how stupifyingly cretinous it is to base a political decision on whether 'the tatooed yobs' belong to the other side. What sort of imbeciles have we bred?
Isn't it reasonable to judge people by the company they keep?
Who's keeping their company? This was a binary choice in a constitutionally vital referendum. Do you like fish and chips? Aren't you worried that they like fish and chips? Do you wear underpants? So do they I'd be willing to bet. The idea that this would have any bearing on anyone's thought process on such an issue fills me with utter despair. We have lived with the EU for 40 odd years. Get a ****ing grip, make an informed decision, and have the strength of mind and character not to be deterred by memes, optics, and any other fluff.
The ERG are not going to abstain in a confidence motion unless they want to be deselected . Labour aren’t going to push a confidence motion. until an extension has been agreed . Pushing that now given the timeframes would lead to no deal if it won . Not a good look if you’re totally against no deal. Aswell as this the TIG won’t support it , neither will the DUP .
Which means you’d need 20+ ERG to bring down their own government even if they were minded to do that .
This House Of Crooks can "get behind" whatever it wants in the political declaration. The PD is no more than an aspiration. As long as WA passes we're leaving and then we can change course on PD "aspirations" following a general election if we wish.
I don't understand how it helps tacking wording about a customs union onto the current Withdrawal Agreement. Firstly it's functionally irrelevant, since if the WA is passed then we remain in the customs union during the transition period, and the existence or otherwise of a permanent customs union can be determined in the negotiations on the future relationship during that time. Secondly, it solves none of the other objections that MPs have to the WA. Thirdly, the prospect of such a thing effectively wrecks the pursuit of an independent trade policy, and may even shove some of the ERG waverers who backed MV3 back into the no camp again for MV4. Finally, Corbyn is bound to complain that it doesn't go far enough and whip against it regardless.
The Deal has already been done to death. I stand to be corrected, but the only way I see it making it onto the statute book is if it comes with a referendum attached. If that can't gain majority support on Monday, then we're probably down to Panic Revoke versus No Deal.
I agree with nearly all of this, the CU seems like it'll ultimately be a blind alley, and the referendum is the only known way out of the treacle. OTOH a vote to discuss and investigate it should be enough to hang an extension on.
Anyone want to tell me how much membership of this "CU" is going to cost us annually?
The ERG are not going to abstain in a confidence motion unless they want to be deselected . Labour aren’t going to push a confidence motion. until an extension has been agreed . Pushing that now given the timeframes would lead to no deal if it won . Not a good look if you’re totally against no deal. Aswell as this the TIG won’t support it , neither will the DUP .
Which means you’d need 20+ ERG to bring down their own government even if they were minded to do that .
The ERG are not going to abstain in a confidence motion unless they want to be deselected . Labour aren’t going to push a confidence motion. until an extension has been agreed . Pushing that now given the timeframes would lead to no deal if it won . Not a good look if you’re totally against no deal. Aswell as this the TIG won’t support it , neither will the DUP .
Which means you’d need 20+ ERG to bring down their own government even if they were minded to do that .
The ERG are not going to abstain in a confidence motion unless they want to be deselected . Labour aren’t going to push a confidence motion. until an extension has been agreed . Pushing that now given the timeframes would lead to no deal if it won . Not a good look if you’re totally against no deal. Aswell as this the TIG won’t support it , neither will the DUP .
Which means you’d need 20+ ERG to bring down their own government even if they were minded to do that .
Theo Usherwood really talks nonsense sometimes .
To be fair there may be 20+ that are actually beyond caring anymore... Steve Baker is probably at the point where he'd be willing to give up his career for No Deal.
Peter Bone is getting towards retirement.
Andrea Jenkyns almost certainly knows she'll be out next time so why not go out with a bang?
Christopher Chope is retiring at the next election
Etc... Not sure if that would reach 20+ but there will be a few willing to bring down the government in VONC if it means they get No Deal!
I don't understand how it helps tacking wording about a customs union onto the current Withdrawal Agreement. Firstly it's functionally irrelevant, since if the WA is passed then we remain in the customs union during the transition period, and the existence or otherwise of a permanent customs union can be determined in the negotiations on the future relationship during that time. Secondly, it solves none of the other objections that MPs have to the WA. Thirdly, the prospect of such a thing effectively wrecks the pursuit of an independent trade policy, and may even shove some of the ERG waverers who backed MV3 back into the no camp again for MV4. Finally, Corbyn is bound to complain that it doesn't go far enough and whip against it regardless.
The Deal has already been done to death. I stand to be corrected, but the only way I see it making it onto the statute book is if it comes with a referendum attached. If that can't gain majority support on Monday, then we're probably down to Panic Revoke versus No Deal.
I agree with nearly all of this, the CU seems like it'll ultimately be a blind alley, and the referendum is the only known way out of the treacle. OTOH a vote to discuss and investigate it should be enough to hang an extension on.
Again, I stand to be corrected but I don't see the EU27 offering an extension just so that MPs can faff about and chit-chat and argue and not agree to do anything for another year. Where does that get them? They clearly want Parliament to make up its mind about what it actually wants to do.
A second referendum provides certainty for the member states - either they get what they probably would still ideally like, which is the defeat of the Leavers and a decision to stay in after all, or they get the Withdrawal Agreement that they've all signed up to. Either way, the proximate crisis ends on terms that the EU27 can accept, and we move on to whatever comes next.
She wouldn't have got that from the Remain crowd. No police necessary. That's the difference.
That's because they are voting to Remain!
Farage has been attacked on more than one occasion, and I doubt it was by Leavers
The Remain crowd of a million had zero police presence. The police had done the risk assessment and knew there was no risk. The Farage Sunderland march of 150(?) had six police in yellow jackets.
I’ll sell a million and buy at zero
The numbers aren't the point. The difference is the behaviour. Whose side do you want to be on. The tattooed yobs (plus Trump and Putin)?
Its genuinely mystifying to me how a vaguely intelligent person can't see how stupifyingly cretinous it is to base a political decision on whether 'the tatooed yobs' belong to the other side. What sort of imbeciles have we bred?
Isn't it reasonable to judge people by the company they keep?
People are being judged by company they don’t keep
Reason I was reluctant to go on the Remain March was because I know from experience how easy it is for groups I dislike to hijack an event, and no matter how careful you are it's easy to get caught up in nasty stuff that has nothing to do with you. I advised the gf and her dog not to go because of my concerns, and they stayed away, but as it happens, I needn't have worried.
Didn't go tonite so I can't speak from experience, but the rushes don't look good.
Less well educated people from poorer parts of the country are angrier and more violent, to use Akala’s explanation for gang trouble, and when they feel alienated and rejected, it can erupt.
Who's keeping their company? This was a binary choice in a constitutionally vital referendum. Do you like fish and chips? Aren't you worried that they like fish and chips? Do you wear underpants? So do they I'd be willing to bet. The idea that this would have any bearing on anyone's thought process on such an issue fills me with utter despair. We have lived with the EU for 40 odd years. Get a ****ing grip, make an informed decision, and have the strength of mind and character not to be deterred by memes, optics, and any other fluff.
If every racist moron in the country was passionately supportive of a cause that was close to my heart I would at the very least pause for thought.
The ERG are not going to abstain in a confidence motion unless they want to be deselected . Labour aren’t going to push a confidence motion. until an extension has been agreed . Pushing that now given the timeframes would lead to no deal if it won . Not a good look if you’re totally against no deal. Aswell as this the TIG won’t support it , neither will the DUP .
Which means you’d need 20+ ERG to bring down their own government even if they were minded to do that .
Theo Usherwood really talks nonsense sometimes .
To be fair there may be 20+ that are actually beyond caring anymore... Steve Baker is probably at the point where he'd be willing to give up his career for No Deal.
Peter Bone is getting towards retirement.
Andrea Jenkyns almost certainly knows she'll be out next time so why not go out with a bang?
Christopher Chope is retiring at the next election
Etc... Not sure if that would reach 20+ but there will be a few willing to bring down the government in VONC if it means they get No Deal!
Bill Cash is another one. He's 78 so his career is pretty much at an end... If he could secure a No Deal Brexit by VONC his government I suspect he would even if it had career implications...
Election, Customs Union, No Deal, Referendum, Revocation.
Which one is least terrible for her, and the Tory Party, and can be blamed easiest on “Parliament”?
To me, that’s a Referendum, but I am not May.
I suspect CU will come out of the elimination and TM needs to put it back to the house for confirmation. After that leave with WDA and customs union on the 22nd May to avoid EU elections and enter transition.
Then by Summer new PM and a GE shortly after
The customs union is irrelevant and depends on the new government's ideas post brexit, the make up of the HOC and as importantly the make up of the new EU Parliament
She wouldn't have got that from the Remain crowd. No police necessary. That's the difference.
That's because they are voting to Remain!
Farage has been attacked on more than one occasion, and I doubt it was by Leavers
The Remain crowd of a million had zero police presence. The police had done the risk assessment and knew there was no risk. The Farage Sunderland march of 150(?) had six police in yellow jackets.
I’ll sell a million and buy at zero
The numbers aren't the point. The difference is the behaviour. Whose side do you want to be on. The tattooed yobs (plus Trump and Putin)?
Its genuinely mystifying to me how a vaguely intelligent person can't see how stupifyingly cretinous it is to base a political decision on whether 'the tatooed yobs' belong to the other side. What sort of imbeciles have we bred?
Isn't it reasonable to judge people by the company they keep?
People are being judged by company they don’t keep
Reason I was reluctant to go on the Remain March was because I know from experience how easy it is for groups I dislike to hijack an event, and no matter how careful you are it's easy to get caught up in nasty stuff that has nothing to do with you. I advised the gf and her dog not to go because of my concerns, and they stayed away, but as it happens, I needn't have worried.
Didn't go tonite so I can't speak from experience, but the rushes don't look good.
Less well educated people from poorer parts of the have been givencountry are angrier and more violent, to use Akala’s explanation for gang trouble, and when they feel alienated and rejected, it can erupt.
They’re pissed up thugs who believe they have been given permission to cause trouble. It’s football firms on tour. The vast majority of less well off people who have not had a university education do not behave like that.
Again, I stand to be corrected but I don't see the EU27 offering an extension just so that MPs can faff about and chit-chat and argue and not agree to do anything for another year. Where does that get them? They clearly want Parliament to make up its mind about what it actually wants to do.
A second referendum provides certainty for the member states - either they get what they probably would still ideally like, which is the defeat of the Leavers and a decision to stay in after all, or they get the Withdrawal Agreement that they've all signed up to. Either way, the proximate crisis ends on terms that the EU27 can accept, and we move on to whatever comes next.
They certainly want Parliament to make up its mind, but the question is what they'll do if it can't.
They can let it kick the can, which leaves open the possibility of a new deal, the old deal, a referendum, a GE, or a consensual revoke, or indefinite extensions (Gimp Remain). Or they can kick the British out with zero notice, which causes immediate economic risk, hurts their businesses and citizens, and totally screws Ireland.
I know some member states are talking tough and it only takes one to veto, but I can't think of a lot of cases since WW1 where politicians create an immediate crisis like that with minimal upside, especially the EU, which never saw a can it didn't kick.
She wouldn't have got that from the Remain crowd. No police necessary. That's the difference.
.
I’ll sell a million and buy at zero
The numbers aren't the point. The difference is the behaviour. Whose side do you want to be on. The tattooed yobs (plus Trump and Putin)?
Its genuinely mystifying to me how a vaguely intelligent person can't see how stupifyingly cretinous it is to base a political decision on whether 'the tatooed yobs' belong to the other side. What sort of imbeciles have we bred?
Isn't it reasonable to judge people by the company they keep?
Who's keeping their company? This was a binary choice in a constitutionally vital referendum. Do you like fish and chips? Aren't you worried that they like fish and chips? Do you wear underpants? So do they I'd be willing to bet. The idea that this would have any bearing on anyone's thought process on such an issue fills me with utter despair. We have lived with the EU for 40 odd years. Get a ****ing grip, make an informed decision, and have the strength of mind and character not to be deterred by memes, optics, and any other fluff.
Hitler was a vegetarian. Just because he was we don’t tar all fascists with that defect.
If you want to read some great blogs I suggest googling was Hitler a vegetarian? You’ll find a selection of interesting blogs where vegetarians try to disprove this. Most would say he followed a vegetarian diet towards the end of his life, but he did enjoy a wurst earlier in his life so this is proof to some that he couldn’t have been vegetarian.
Election, Customs Union, No Deal, Referendum, Revocation.
Which one is least terrible for her, and the Tory Party, and can be blamed easiest on “Parliament”?
To me, that’s a Referendum, but I am not May.
I suspect CU will come out of the elimination and TM needs to put it back to the house for confirmation. After that leave with WDA and customs union on the 22nd May to avoid EU elections and enter transition.
Then by Summer new PM and a GE shortly after
The customs union is irrelevant and depends on the new government's ideas post brexit, the make up of the HOC and as importantly the make up of the new EU Parliament
I don't understand how it helps tacking wording about a customs union onto the current Withdrawal Agreement. Firstly it's functionally irrelevant, since if the WA is passed then we remain in the customs union during the transition period, and the existence or otherwise of a permanent customs union can be determined in the negotiations on the future relationship during that time. Secondly, it solves none of the other objections that MPs have to the WA. Thirdly, the prospect of such a thing effectively wrecks the pursuit of an independent trade policy, and may even shove some of the ERG waverers who backed MV3 back into the no camp again for MV4. Finally, Corbyn is bound to complain that it doesn't go far enough and whip against it regardless.
The Deal has already been done to death. I stand to be corrected, but the only way I see it making it onto the statute book is if it comes with a referendum attached. If that can't gain majority support on Monday, then we're probably down to Panic Revoke versus No Deal.
Although it's true that the current PD doesn't preclude a customs union later, the reverse is also true. There's nothing in principle stopping Theresa May adding it to the WA to see if she can get it through. Yet she is absolutely opposed to any discussion of CUs. She has submitted the same Hard Brexit deal four times, essentially without winning anyone over who isn't a Tory, and struggling even there. It's at least worth a try to see if she can add more Labour votes or abstentions with a CU commitment than she loses on her own benches.
So the WA fails again but by a narrower margin, seems some Labour MPs chickened out of backing it once they saw it would lose. So the Commons looks like voting for permanent Customs Union on Monday, then all depends on whether it votes to contest the EU Parliament elections too
The British have a ticklish, quirky and politically perverse sense of humour that surely is the only explanation for BoJo being Foreign Secretary, Jezza outperforming all expectations in 2017 and MayBot losing her majority.
And so as BREXIT becomes like an episode of Monty Python the much maligned and derided Prime Minister twists in the wind and calls a general election where her tenacity, endurance and sheer cussedness is matched against the real prospect of PM Jezza and MayBot is returned with a thumping majority.
Oh how we laughed !! ....
This is not completely out of the question.
Well, me laughing if it happens is, but not the rest of it.
When he says the 'referendum result' I presume he's smuggling in the notion that this must entail absolutely no future arrangements with the EU whatsoever.
Just got back from my local party Association AGM, a strong feeling a 'true Brexiteer' was now needed as the next Tory leader. On a straw poll Raab and Leadsom came a surprising joint top, Boris was second and Hunt third
“Corbyn conspires with hard Brexiteers” is a bit of a stretch.
This is the sort shit that causes problems. Dial it down.
We all agree that it should be dialled down, and violence must be condemned. However, if people see that trying to achieve change through adherence to democratic processes does not work then they will seek other means. John McDonnell, amongst others has not hidden his enthusiasm for direct action.
The public voted to Leave the EU in a referendum. 3 years later we are still in the EU, and there is no obvious sign we are leaving anytime soon.
She wouldn't have got that from the Remain crowd. No police necessary. That's the difference.
That's because they are voting to Remain!
Farage has been attacked on more than one occasion, and I doubt it was by Leavers
The Remain crowd of a million had zero police presence. The police had done the risk assessment and knew there was no risk. The Farage Sunderland march of 150(?) had six police in yellow jackets.
I’ll sell a million and buy at zero
The numbers aren't the point. The difference is the behaviour. Whose side do you want to be on. The tattooed yobs (plus Trump and Putin)?
Its genuinely mystifying to me how a vaguely intelligent person can't see how stupifyingly cretinous it is to base a political decision on whether 'the tatooed yobs' belong to the other side. What sort of imbeciles have we bred?
Isn't it reasonable to judge people by the company they keep?
People are being judged by company they don’t keep
Reason I was reluctant to go on the Remain March was because I know from experience how easy it is for groups I dislike to hijack an event, and no matter how careful you are it's easy to get caught up in nasty stuff that has nothing to do with you. I advised the gf and her dog not to go because of my concerns, and they stayed away, but as it happens, I needn't have worried.
Didn't go tonite so I can't speak from experience, but the rushes don't look good.
Less well educated people from poorer parts of the have been givencountry are angrier and more violent, to use Akala’s explanation for gang trouble, and when they feel alienated and rejected, it can erupt.
They’re pissed up thugs who believe they have been given permission to cause trouble. It’s football firms on tour. The vast majority of less well off people who have not had a university education do not behave like that.
Comments
1) A military coup
2) The Queen suspending Parliament and reinstating Divine Right
3) "I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords"
4) Case Nightmare Green*
* from Charles Stross's "Laundry" Lovecraftian horror novels, where in the latest installment the stars have come right and the PM is in fact the Black Pharaoh Nyarlathotep.
Any more suggestions?
This is why Cummings and Vote Leave didn't want anything to do with Banks and Leave.EU during the referendum.
I find him abhorrent.
The Deal has already been done to death. I stand to be corrected, but the only way I see it making it onto the statute book is if it comes with a referendum attached. If that can't gain majority support on Monday, then we're probably down to Panic Revoke versus No Deal.
However, they are inextricable component of Leaverdom.
https://player.fm/series/the-political-party/show-85-patrick-oflynn
Some of the language prominent Leavers have used like “traitor” and “saboteur” have not helped one bit. Instead there should have more of an effort to remove them and attract normal folk that may simply disagree with Leave.
Nothing associates your view at the time of the referendum with anything else.
Not arsing about is a pretty important thing.
And so, inevitably, to the situation in which we find ourselves at this moment of national crisis, with Theresa May having agreed to depart. The mad bastards of the Tory party are at it again, in a competition you should think of as Mastershit: The Professionals.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/29/tory-leadership-contest-brexit-conservative-party
May’s Deal goes down a third time, and she is reportedly considering an election that will likely finish the government.
The EU make No Deal (and a British economic collapse) their central planning assumption.
A fascist mob congregate in Whitehall.
Vote Leave finally concede their campaign broke the law.
The Revoke petition edges ever closer to 6 million.
Have we taken back control yet?
WA then passes. Theresa goes. Con change leaders. We have a general election where CU and PD are torn up (if people vote for that) and then with a fresh mandate and a fresh parliament the next government negotiates on a new PD.
I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1111734780058451968
Didn't go tonite so I can't speak from experience, but the rushes don't look good.
Oh wait we did.
If only people had warned that Farage using Nazi era posters would embolden the far right, oh wait we did.
The ERG are not going to abstain in a confidence motion unless they want to be deselected . Labour aren’t going to push a confidence motion. until an extension has been agreed . Pushing that now given the timeframes would lead to no deal if it won . Not a good look if you’re totally against no deal. Aswell as this the TIG won’t support it , neither will the DUP .
Which means you’d need 20+ ERG to bring down their own government even if they were minded to do that .
Theo Usherwood really talks nonsense sometimes .
Election, Customs Union, No Deal, Referendum, Revocation.
Which one is least terrible for her, and the Tory Party, and can be blamed easiest on “Parliament”?
To me, that’s a Referendum, but I am not May.
Peter Bone is getting towards retirement.
Andrea Jenkyns almost certainly knows she'll be out next time so why not go out with a bang?
Christopher Chope is retiring at the next election
Etc... Not sure if that would reach 20+ but there will be a few willing to bring down the government in VONC if it means they get No Deal!
Fuck knows
I'm past caring
It's the living dead in here
A second referendum provides certainty for the member states - either they get what they probably would still ideally like, which is the defeat of the Leavers and a decision to stay in after all, or they get the Withdrawal Agreement that they've all signed up to. Either way, the proximate crisis ends on terms that the EU27 can accept, and we move on to whatever comes next.
Voters don't care about customs details but they would care about the disruption No Deal would bring.
A GE only works if the Conservatives purge themselves of the fanatics at each extreme and they might not win in any case.
Referendum and revocation would be seen as betrayals and the Conservatives would implode.
Unless I was one of them of course.
https://twitter.com/BenGoldsmith/status/1111710498943201280?s=20
Then by Summer new PM and a GE shortly after
The customs union is irrelevant and depends on the new government's ideas post brexit, the make up of the HOC and as importantly the make up of the new EU Parliament
Triggered.
They can let it kick the can, which leaves open the possibility of a new deal, the old deal, a referendum, a GE, or a consensual revoke, or indefinite extensions (Gimp Remain). Or they can kick the British out with zero notice, which causes immediate economic risk, hurts their businesses and citizens, and totally screws Ireland.
I know some member states are talking tough and it only takes one to veto, but I can't think of a lot of cases since WW1 where politicians create an immediate crisis like that with minimal upside, especially the EU, which never saw a can it didn't kick.
It is outside of their skill set !!!!
Well, me laughing if it happens is, but not the rest of it.
The public voted to Leave the EU in a referendum. 3 years later we are still in the EU, and there is no obvious sign we are leaving anytime soon.
What have you done to my original post?!
However, Priti Patel ...