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In spite of the latest EU dealings those who think Brexit was wrong still have clear 8% lead with Yo

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  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    rcs1000 said:

    From Maclean's Politics Insider:

    "Canada was expecting four million doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine by the end of March, and—despite mounting evidence that such a number probably won't be reached—the feds are sticking with it.
    Multiple sources across various levels of government confirmed that the true number will be closer to 3.5 million—about 500,000 short.

    The situation has gotten serious enough that Pfizer has requested Health Canada approve administrators squeezing six injections out of each vial of vaccine instead of five. But Maj.-Gen. Dany Fortin insists Pfizer is still planning to fulfill its complete promise come springtime.

    Meanwhile, Canada has dropped several places globally in per-capita vaccine distribution: we now rank 20th, behind Bahrain, Denmark, Germany, Israel, Italy, Malta, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Spain and the United Arab Emirates, among others. According to an analysis by The Economist, Canada won't see widespread vaccination until mid-2022."

    The funny bit is that, while the EU isn't doing very well, it isn't doing that badly either. It's just that the UK has done so well that is driving them insane.
    No, the EU is doing badly.

    Canada, according to my source (friend in Alberta whom I talk to weekly) is a shitshow - but according to latest available stats its vaccination rate is 2.41 per 100 people. The EU average is 2.50, and the best performing of the large EU states, Italy, is at 3.0.

    Only five countries in the world have rates of 10 or above. The US, Serbia and Malta are now over 5. Everybody else is still stuck on the floor.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    edited January 2021

    You have resorted to Guido?

    Sad state of affairs
    Why when he tells the truth
    Not like Sky, eh?
    How is Nicola Sturgeon's love affair with the EU going then
    You're quite petulant under the harmless old chuff veneer, ain't you?

    How're the in-laws descended from 300 generations of fisherfolk doing with BJ's fantastic deal for fishing?
    You have not answered my question

    And 23 million now for the fishing industry loses, plus 100 million investment to develop UK wide fishing over the next five years is far better than being in the CFP and under the ridiculous EU, who have trashed their brand in a way that was totally unexpected
    Ask a non dumb question and I might answer it. That would be like me asking how's you're 'principled' stand that Boris is not fit to lead the country or the Tory party going?

    The newspaper that has served the NE of Scotland and the fishing industry for decades obviously doesn't have your level of expertise I know, but...

    https://twitter.com/pressjournal/status/1354867603726995456?s=20
  • When Uncle Joe gets up from his afternoon nap, I wonder what he will think.about all of this. EU messing with a US company and the Irish border.

    Reckon that Boris Johnson is more likely to be taking afternoon naps these days than Joe Biden.

    He (BoJo not Uncle Joe) sure looks like he needs 'em.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,906
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Anyone else starting to feel like how the Greeks felt according to Varoufakis?

    Varoufakis - a smart guy - was one of the few senior EU politicians who said he understood Brexit and thought it justifiable, even though he preferred Britain to Reman

    His book on the eurocrisis is rather good, and revealing
    Hmmmm: I know several people who worked at the IMF, and their views on Varoufakis are unprintable.

    I know a guy who worked with him at Valve...
    If I ever make it back to London, we should go for a drink and I'll introduce you my friend. You guys can swap Varoufakis stories. In summary, she thinks he's not just an idiot, but also a cunt, and that his attempts to play "game theory" with the IMF were ... not good.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800
    edited January 2021
    Evening all :)

    The most encouraging aspect of today's figures is the reduction of the numbers in hospital which is the lagging indicator from the numbers of cases which have halved from the worst part of this phase of the virus.

    29,000 new positives is still a big number compared with what was being reported in the summer when admittedly the tracing regime isn't what it is now but it shows the lockdown restrictions are having the desired effect.

    I noticed on my lunchtime constitutional the local testing centre with plenty waiting to test and nobody being tested. Perhaps this is another indication of a falling case load as no one is coming through with symptoms.

    We are moving in the right direction but there's still a way to go yet.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    I see the DUP wanted to invoke Article 16 as recently as 7/1/21

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-northern-ireland-dup-article-16-b1783221.html

    Now apparently its "an incredible act of hostility"

    DUP really fucked up over BREXIT when they overplayed their hand.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,851

    When Uncle Joe gets up from his afternoon nap, I wonder what he will think.about all of this. EU messing with a US company and the Irish border.

    Reckon that Boris Johnson is more likely to be taking afternoon naps these days than Joe Biden.

    He (BoJo not Uncle Joe) sure looks like he needs 'em.
    If it means he is more effective, all the better. If Biden needs them at some point, no problem.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,152

    Anyone else starting to feel like how the Greeks felt according to Varoufakis?

    No.

    Because unlike the Greeks, who the the EU had over a barrel, we're in pole position as we have the vaccines (and many more to come) - And the EU knows it!
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,573
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The most encouraging aspect of today's figures is the reduction of the numbers in hospital which is the lagging indicator from the numbers of cases which have halved from the worst part of this phase of the virus.

    29,000 new positives is still a big number compared with what was being reported in the summer when admittedly the tracing regime isn't what it is now but it shows the lockdown restrictions are having the desired effect.

    I noticed on my lunchtime constitutional the local testing centre with plenty waiting to test and nobody being tested. Perhaps this is another indication of a falling case load as no one is coming through with symptoms.

    We are moving in the right direction but there's still a way to go yet.

    29k is more than 25% down week on week despite a 14% increase in number of tests - this week the percentage decline has been accelerating off the very stable path it had been on - good reason to be optimistic we're seeing the vaccine start to have an impact.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,906

    rcs1000 said:

    From Maclean's Politics Insider:

    "Canada was expecting four million doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine by the end of March, and—despite mounting evidence that such a number probably won't be reached—the feds are sticking with it.
    Multiple sources across various levels of government confirmed that the true number will be closer to 3.5 million—about 500,000 short.

    The situation has gotten serious enough that Pfizer has requested Health Canada approve administrators squeezing six injections out of each vial of vaccine instead of five. But Maj.-Gen. Dany Fortin insists Pfizer is still planning to fulfill its complete promise come springtime.

    Meanwhile, Canada has dropped several places globally in per-capita vaccine distribution: we now rank 20th, behind Bahrain, Denmark, Germany, Israel, Italy, Malta, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Spain and the United Arab Emirates, among others. According to an analysis by The Economist, Canada won't see widespread vaccination until mid-2022."

    The funny bit is that, while the EU isn't doing very well, it isn't doing that badly either. It's just that the UK has done so well that is driving them insane.
    No, the EU is doing badly.

    Canada, according to my source (friend in Alberta whom I talk to weekly) is a shitshow - but according to latest available stats its vaccination rate is 2.41 per 100 people. The EU average is 2.50, and the best performing of the large EU states, Italy, is at 3.0.

    Only five countries in the world have rates of 10 or above. The US, Serbia and Malta are now over 5. Everybody else is still stuck on the floor.
    Let me turn it around, microstates, Israel, the UK and the US are doing well.

    Then there are a bunch of countries in that 2-3 doses per 100 people, the EU, Canada, Switzerland, Norway. Then there are countries like Japan, Russia and China that are doing even less well.

    My point is that if we weren't doing (relatively) well, then there would be a lot less pressure on the EU.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Hang on, did the Commission not at least run it by him first?
    That is utterly stupefying. I presume they didn't tell Irish-American president Biden either, that the EU is gonna build a wall around Ulster, after all
    “Plus, sorry Joe but we’ve decided to interfere with your flagship vaccine policy and prevent you hitting your numbers, whilst cosying up to China - you’ll still be best friends with us in the EU though right?”
    Sorry but there's just no way that Joe Biden is going to side with us against the EU. Not a hope. We are on our own, and that's fine. Let's just get on with.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,906
    maaarsh said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The real test for the EU is whether heads roll at the top: if the European Parliament is able to secure some resignations from those responsible, that would be a positive step.

    If, on the other hand, failure is ignored and waved away, then that bodes ill.

    Given the likely possibility that the UK death rate at the end of all this will still be higher than most if not all EU members, and everyone's love of simplistic analysis, I suspect that alone will mean the failings of the vaccination phase will be downplayed in the halls of the Commission. Someone close by will be worse overall, therefore nothing to see here.
    We're pretty much in the same pack as Italy, France & Spain - given current Vaccine trends it's not unreasonable to predict this is a 14 month plague for us and a 20 month plague for them - would be quite surprised if that doesn't feed in to the end result.
    I think a six month gap is way too pessimistic. Every month global vaccine production rises. Every month more vaccines are approved.

    I think we're "done" (as in the number of vaccinations starts to drop and cases are sub 1,000/day) by the end of April, and I expect the EU to be broadly there by the end of June/July.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,817
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Commission President Ursula von der Leyen Seeking to Duck Responsibility

    European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen is trying to get out of the firing line as anger grows over the EU's botched vaccine rollout. It's not the first time in her career that she has sought to evade responsibility.


    https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/europe-s-vaccine-disaster-commission-president-ursula-von-der-leyen-seeking-to-duck-responsibility-a-1197547d-6219-4438-9d69-b76e64701802-amp?__twitter_impression=true

    That makes her seem like the German version of Boris. She goes into a job, promises a whole bunch of grandiose sounding bullshit, fucks it all up and then let's the next person fix everything.
    Yes, but she's classier, so it's all good.
    Remember all those tweets comparing their appearances?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,851

    I see the DUP wanted to invoke Article 16 as recently as 7/1/21

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-northern-ireland-dup-article-16-b1783221.html

    Now apparently its "an incredible act of hostility"

    DUP really fucked up over BREXIT when they overplayed their hand.

    No one is in favour of the other side invoking it.
    So...does that mean they cannot impose the ban as they intended?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,906

    Lesson seems to be that small offshore members of the EU (say with populations of c.5m) stand to be shafted when the EU big boys are inconvenienced.

    Where's Carnyx and Union Divvie when you need them?

    Switzerland and Norway both had the financial wherewithal to go the Israeli (or British) route, but did not. Their politicians will likely pay the price.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,817
    LOL. Who is breaking international law now?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,851
    RobD said:

    LOL. Who is breaking international law now?
    Me, but keep that quiet, I don't want to get in trouble.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,729

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Hang on, did the Commission not at least run it by him first?
    That is utterly stupefying. I presume they didn't tell Irish-American president Biden either, that the EU is gonna build a wall around Ulster, after all
    “Plus, sorry Joe but we’ve decided to interfere with your flagship vaccine policy and prevent you hitting your numbers, whilst cosying up to China - you’ll still be best friends with us in the EU though right?”
    Sorry but there's just no way that Joe Biden is going to side with us against the EU. Not a hope. We are on our own, and that's fine. Let's just get on with.
    I'm sure he won't comment but can't imagine JB will be very impressed by the EU's actions in Ireland...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,851

    I presume the NYT will penning a article shortly explaining to their American readers how the total balls uo by the EU over vaccine procurement is all the UKs fault.

    Should be easy, the EU Justice Commissioner has already explained that the problem is the UK wants a vaccine war because it won't show solidarity.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Anyone else starting to feel like how the Greeks felt according to Varoufakis?

    Varoufakis - a smart guy - was one of the few senior EU politicians who said he understood Brexit and thought it justifiable, even though he preferred Britain to Reman

    His book on the eurocrisis is rather good, and revealing
    Hmmmm: I know several people who worked at the IMF, and their views on Varoufakis are unprintable.

    I know a guy who worked with him at Valve...
    If I ever make it back to London, we should go for a drink and I'll introduce you my friend. You guys can swap Varoufakis stories. In summary, she thinks he's not just an idiot, but also a cunt, and that his attempts to play "game theory" with the IMF were ... not good.
    Oh man, that sounds eerily familiar.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    I see the DUP wanted to invoke Article 16 as recently as 7/1/21

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-northern-ireland-dup-article-16-b1783221.html

    Now apparently its "an incredible act of hostility"

    DUP really fucked up over BREXIT when they overplayed their hand.

    Except that the DUP had no power to do it, and the UK Government didn't give them what they wanted. It is the position of the UK Government that is relevant to the situation.

    Of course, if the Commission invokes these serious measures on a whim then, having taken the mickey out of the terms of the protocol, it arms the British Government with permission to act in kind.

    I think it unlikely that it will come to that; however, if there is any question of food supplies to Northern Ireland being disrupted then that is a far more urgent and pressing matter than the theoretical prospect of dastardly clandestine British agents smuggling EU-made vaccines from Dundalk to Newry in the back of an unmarked van.

    "Bye bye Irish Sea border. Emergency and all that. Sorry Ursula."
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    rcs1000 said:

    Lesson seems to be that small offshore members of the EU (say with populations of c.5m) stand to be shafted when the EU big boys are inconvenienced.

    Where's Carnyx and Union Divvie when you need them?

    Switzerland and Norway both had the financial wherewithal to go the Israeli (or British) route, but did not. Their politicians will likely pay the price.
    Switzerland has got a very good vaccine book but it's regulator seems to be interminable in its checks, which seems ridiculous given that both Pfizer and Moderna have been approved by the MHRA and FDA.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    RobD said:

    LOL. Who is breaking international law now?

    I presume the NYT will penning a article shortly explaining to their American readers how the total balls up by the EU over vaccine procurement is all the UKs fault.

    In a limited and specific way?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,817
    Does it bollocks. They've been rumbled is all.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    Andy_JS said:
    Nice to see the LDs getting a bonus from MoE once in a while.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,439
    edited January 2021
    maaarsh said:
    I know they have recently cozied up to China, now imatating them...
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    maaarsh said:
    We're not about to have an Ambrose Evans-Pritchard correctly predicts the future event, are we?

    I don't believe it. I know things are pretty shit at the moment but this doesn't feel quite like the End Times...

    (We are all still here aren't we? Nobody been Raptured?)
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    maaarsh said:
    It's incredible. Why don't they understand that vaccine producers aren't purposely inventing supply problems. The way forward is to work with them, assist with money if necessary, to increase overall supply for the common good.

    Not effectively shut the whole thing down, or at least prevent expansion of supply. Why do they think things would work better by nationalising them???
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    maaarsh said:
    We're not about to have an Ambrose Evans-Pritchard correctly predicts the future event, are we?

    I don't believe it. I know things are pretty shit at the moment but this doesn't feel quite like the End Times...

    (We are all still here aren't we? Nobody been Raptured?)
    I'm actually in shock - AFP MIGHT not be wrong!!!!

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,851
    RobD said:

    Does it bollocks. They've been rumbled is all.

    The EU invoked Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol which allows parts of the deal to be unilaterally overridden.

    In a new regulation the European Commission states: "This is justified as a safeguard measure pursuant to Article 16 of that Protocol in order to avert serious societal difficulties due to a lack of supply threatening to disturb the orderly implementation of the vaccination campaigns in the Member States
    .

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-55864442

    This is justified, not that it will be justified.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    Lesson seems to be that small offshore members of the EU (say with populations of c.5m) stand to be shafted when the EU big boys are inconvenienced.

    Where's Carnyx and Union Divvie when you need them?

    Isn't a person allowed to have his dinner?
  • maaarsh said:
    We're not about to have an Ambrose Evans-Pritchard correctly predicts the future event, are we?

    I don't believe it. I know things are pretty shit at the moment but this doesn't feel quite like the End Times...

    (We are all still here aren't we? Nobody been Raptured?)
    Can someone do a welfare check of Scott_Paste?
  • alex_ said:

    maaarsh said:
    It's incredible. Why don't they understand that vaccine producers aren't purposely inventing supply problems. The way forward is to work with them, assist with money if necessary, to increase overall supply for the common good.

    Not effectively shut the whole thing down, or at least prevent expansion of supply. Why do they think things would work better by nationalising them???
    It like they think they are dealing with a heavily unionized construction workforce deliberately on a go slow.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637

    Weren't some PBers in favour of export bans of AZ earlier in the week because we needed it first.

    But a Pfizer export ban for exactly the same reason by the EU is tantamount to WWIII



  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,851

    maaarsh said:
    (We are all still here aren't we? Nobody been Raptured?)
    I don't think we would be prime candidates for noticing the rapture as en event.

    As for how far things could now go, the problem is the EU seems to be increasing escalation, not deescalating. As they are the only ones doing any escalating, only they can calm the f*ck down, but they seem to be feeding off...something that is ratcheting everything up.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    edited January 2021

    You have resorted to Guido?

    Sad state of affairs
    Why when he tells the truth
    Not like Sky, eh?
    How is Nicola Sturgeon's love affair with the EU going then
    You're quite petulant under the harmless old chuff veneer, ain't you?

    How're the in-laws descended from 300 generations of fisherfolk doing with BJ's fantastic deal for fishing?
    You have not answered my question

    And 23 million now for the fishing industry loses, plus 100 million investment to develop UK wide fishing over the next five years is far better than being in the CFP and under the ridiculous EU, who have trashed their brand in a way that was totally unexpected
    23 million? You've got individual firms losing business worth thousands each WEEK.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,851


    Weren't some PBers in favour of export bans of AZ earlier in the week because we needed it first.

    But a Pfizer export ban for exactly the same reason by the EU is tantamount to WWIII

    Even if someone on here did, are you actually suggesting that random yahoos mouthing off on a forum has equivalence with the might of the EU Commission deciding to actually do so?

    Seriously, I don't even know what point you are trying to make.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895

    Can someone do a welfare check of Scott

    You could read the thread.

    Dick
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,156

    alex_ said:

    RobD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    What a carve up.

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1355212119277522945

    EU fall into their own Irish bear trap.

    Was clear from the start they were just using the border for their own political interest. They don't give two hoots about the people there.
    At least that’s clear as day. I feel sorry for Ireland - the country with the most to lose in the EU. Let’s give them some of our vaccines
    Ireland isn't actually a very big country. We could probably do it.
    6.5 million people - we've got enough on order...
    That isnt a country, thats the whole of the island of Ireland. Rep of Ireland has 4.9 million people.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800
    maaarsh said:


    29k is more than 25% down week on week despite a 14% increase in number of tests - this week the percentage decline has been accelerating off the very stable path it had been on - good reason to be optimistic we're seeing the vaccine start to have an impact.

    It may be the vaccine - it may be lockdown restrictions having an impact.

    The transport use numbers are informative - car traffic about half of pre-Covid levels, tube passenger numbers 15% of pre-Covid levels, national rail passenger numbers 13% of pre-Covid levels.

    People ARE staying home and following the guidelines and inevitably that is reducing contacts and therefore transmissions. Is the vaccine having an impact? I'd argue not as many of those vaccinated were effectively shielding,

    The more worrying story is how the second wave was fuelled by employers dragging staff back to offices and only paying lip service to Covid related health and hygiene guidelines.

    This nonsense, perpetrated by Johnson among others, was seized on by companies with weak or non-existent remote IT capability, to compel workers back into offices.
  • Carnyx said:

    Lesson seems to be that small offshore members of the EU (say with populations of c.5m) stand to be shafted when the EU big boys are inconvenienced.

    Where's Carnyx and Union Divvie when you need them?

    Isn't a person allowed to have his dinner?
    Burgy's lot (ie actual Scotch SCon yoons) are pretty thin on the ground, he's pulling double shifts and expects everyone else to do the same.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,573
    stodge said:

    maaarsh said:


    29k is more than 25% down week on week despite a 14% increase in number of tests - this week the percentage decline has been accelerating off the very stable path it had been on - good reason to be optimistic we're seeing the vaccine start to have an impact.

    It may be the vaccine - it may be lockdown restrictions having an impact.

    The transport use numbers are informative - car traffic about half of pre-Covid levels, tube passenger numbers 15% of pre-Covid levels, national rail passenger numbers 13% of pre-Covid levels.

    People ARE staying home and following the guidelines and inevitably that is reducing contacts and therefore transmissions. Is the vaccine having an impact? I'd argue not as many of those vaccinated were effectively shielding,

    The more worrying story is how the second wave was fuelled by employers dragging staff back to offices and only paying lip service to Covid related health and hygiene guidelines.

    This nonsense, perpetrated by Johnson among others, was seized on by companies with weak or non-existent remote IT capability, to compel workers back into offices.
    There was a constant rate of decline for the first 2 weeks of lockdown and now, 3 weeks after the vaccine effort ramped up, it has accelerated -

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1355187197180334084

    Seems rather unlikely that lockdown compliance has suddenly increased when cases were already falling. Combined with the hospital admissions falling much faster for over 85s than unders, I think we can see what is happening.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,817
    Oh dear. The EU aren't making many friends today, are they?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080

    maaarsh said:
    We're not about to have an Ambrose Evans-Pritchard correctly predicts the future event, are we?

    I don't believe it. I know things are pretty shit at the moment but this doesn't feel quite like the End Times...

    (We are all still here aren't we? Nobody been Raptured?)
    I was in raptures over our dinner.

    https://supervalu.ie/real-food/cooking/recipe/vegan-mushroom-and-hazelnut-burgers
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691

    Andy_JS said:
    Nice to see the LDs getting a bonus from MoE once in a while.
    Noone really disagrees with the LDs - their charm and curse. When they get 0% (near as it is) then you almost want to jump up and down and wave their banner. However they've won some seats that have cost me a lot of money. Predictably crap is something I have a sympathy with, arsing about and using local connections to run up the rails - I disapprove!

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,152
    edited January 2021
    maaarsh said:
    If I was a "vaccine producer" I'd be seriously considering closing down all my EU operations this weekend lol!
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Quite surprised that Australia are getting their vaccines from the EU to be fair.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    Carnyx said:

    You have resorted to Guido?

    Sad state of affairs
    Why when he tells the truth
    Not like Sky, eh?
    How is Nicola Sturgeon's love affair with the EU going then
    You're quite petulant under the harmless old chuff veneer, ain't you?

    How're the in-laws descended from 300 generations of fisherfolk doing with BJ's fantastic deal for fishing?
    You have not answered my question

    And 23 million now for the fishing industry loses, plus 100 million investment to develop UK wide fishing over the next five years is far better than being in the CFP and under the ridiculous EU, who have trashed their brand in a way that was totally unexpected
    23 million? You've got individual firms losing business worth thousands each WEEK.
    Further - some are losing a MILLION a week in turnover. Not the same thing as net losses, but still it's a lot when we add it up over, say, three months. That's of the order of 10-20% of the entire 23m for one firm.

    Still think the London Tories give a shit for the fisherfolk now thet have their Brexit? I don't.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-drives-scottish-seafood-crisis-not-happier-fish/
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,729

    Carnyx said:

    Lesson seems to be that small offshore members of the EU (say with populations of c.5m) stand to be shafted when the EU big boys are inconvenienced.

    Where's Carnyx and Union Divvie when you need them?

    Isn't a person allowed to have his dinner?
    Burgy's lot (ie actual Scotch SCon yoons) are pretty thin on the ground, he's pulling double shifts and expects everyone else to do the same.
    Quite right. No rest for the wicked y'know.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,817
    alex_ said:

    Quite surprised that Australia are getting their vaccines from the EU to be fair.
    The EU commission may be surprised too when they hear from the Australians.
  • dr_spyn said:
    "solidarity" is the new flag waving...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    kle4 said:


    Weren't some PBers in favour of export bans of AZ earlier in the week because we needed it first.

    But a Pfizer export ban for exactly the same reason by the EU is tantamount to WWIII

    Even if someone on here did, are you actually suggesting that random yahoos mouthing off on a forum has equivalence with the might of the EU Commission deciding to actually do so?

    Seriously, I don't even know what point you are trying to make.
    That some posters are hypocrites

    In favour of Vaccine Nationalism when it benefits "us"

    Against vaccine Nationalism when it favours "them"

    IMO Vaccine Nationalism is bad no ifs no buts
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    kle4 said:

    maaarsh said:
    (We are all still here aren't we? Nobody been Raptured?)
    I don't think we would be prime candidates for noticing the rapture as en event.

    As for how far things could now go, the problem is the EU seems to be increasing escalation, not deescalating. As they are the only ones doing any escalating, only they can calm the f*ck down, but they seem to be feeding off...something that is ratcheting everything up.
    I've just been reading the Guardian write up on the export control exempt list.

    On list: Syria, Belarus, Libya
    Off list: UK, US, Canada

    They're essentially willing to ship this stuff to Assad, Lukashenko and an anarchic war zone with no questions asked, but not to their three principal Western allies.

    At this rate NATO will be dead in a week.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,817

    kle4 said:


    Weren't some PBers in favour of export bans of AZ earlier in the week because we needed it first.

    But a Pfizer export ban for exactly the same reason by the EU is tantamount to WWIII

    Even if someone on here did, are you actually suggesting that random yahoos mouthing off on a forum has equivalence with the might of the EU Commission deciding to actually do so?

    Seriously, I don't even know what point you are trying to make.
    That some posters are hypocrites

    In favour of Vaccine Nationalism when it benefits "us"

    Against vaccine Nationalism when it favours "them"

    IMO Vaccine Nationalism is bad no ifs no buts
    This isn't even vaccine nationalism, it's vaccine stealing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    edited January 2021

    Carnyx said:

    Lesson seems to be that small offshore members of the EU (say with populations of c.5m) stand to be shafted when the EU big boys are inconvenienced.

    Where's Carnyx and Union Divvie when you need them?

    Isn't a person allowed to have his dinner?
    Burgy's lot (ie actual Scotch SCon yoons) are pretty thin on the ground, he's pulling double shifts and expects everyone else to do the same.
    I've been struck with a loss of confidence that some of the soi-disant Scotch Yoons on PB are actuall resident north of Lamberton Toll, or even Gretna, after one of them started complaining the other day that Ms Sturgeon was travelling between different Tiers daily. That's a bit like DavidL talking about the accused rather than the pannel ... not that he would, that's the point, we all know he comes from Yes City.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,729
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    You have resorted to Guido?

    Sad state of affairs
    Why when he tells the truth
    Not like Sky, eh?
    How is Nicola Sturgeon's love affair with the EU going then
    You're quite petulant under the harmless old chuff veneer, ain't you?

    How're the in-laws descended from 300 generations of fisherfolk doing with BJ's fantastic deal for fishing?
    You have not answered my question

    And 23 million now for the fishing industry loses, plus 100 million investment to develop UK wide fishing over the next five years is far better than being in the CFP and under the ridiculous EU, who have trashed their brand in a way that was totally unexpected
    23 million? You've got individual firms losing business worth thousands each WEEK.
    Further - some are losing a MILLION a week in turnover. Not the same thing as net losses, but still it's a lot when we add it up over, say, three months. That's of the order of 10-20% of the entire 23m for one firm.

    Still think the London Tories give a shit for the fisherfolk now thet have their Brexit? I don't.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-drives-scottish-seafood-crisis-not-happier-fish/
    As it happens I agree it is a sh!tshow. Only saving grace is that the alternative, the welcoming arms of the EU & CFP, isn't exactly looking terribly attractive just now.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Deaths finally updated...modest downward trend slightly stronger than yesterday:


  • Weren't some PBers in favour of export bans of AZ earlier in the week because we needed it first.

    But a Pfizer export ban for exactly the same reason by the EU is tantamount to WWIII



    No
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    The EU really need to step back, breath and think

    https://twitter.com/lukemcgee/status/1355234102186827780
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    You have resorted to Guido?

    Sad state of affairs
    Why when he tells the truth
    Not like Sky, eh?
    How is Nicola Sturgeon's love affair with the EU going then
    You're quite petulant under the harmless old chuff veneer, ain't you?

    How're the in-laws descended from 300 generations of fisherfolk doing with BJ's fantastic deal for fishing?
    You have not answered my question

    And 23 million now for the fishing industry loses, plus 100 million investment to develop UK wide fishing over the next five years is far better than being in the CFP and under the ridiculous EU, who have trashed their brand in a way that was totally unexpected
    23 million? You've got individual firms losing business worth thousands each WEEK.
    Further - some are losing a MILLION a week in turnover. Not the same thing as net losses, but still it's a lot when we add it up over, say, three months. That's of the order of 10-20% of the entire 23m for one firm.

    Still think the London Tories give a shit for the fisherfolk now thet have their Brexit? I don't.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-drives-scottish-seafood-crisis-not-happier-fish/
    As it happens I agree it is a sh!tshow. Only saving grace is that the alternative, the welcoming arms of the EU & CFP, isn't exactly looking terribly attractive just now.
    Hmmm Except that they'd have been buying the fish and still are, if the fish are brought into Denmark. Which is more than Mr J is doing. Shame about the processors.
  • kle4 said:


    Weren't some PBers in favour of export bans of AZ earlier in the week because we needed it first.

    But a Pfizer export ban for exactly the same reason by the EU is tantamount to WWIII

    Even if someone on here did, are you actually suggesting that random yahoos mouthing off on a forum has equivalence with the might of the EU Commission deciding to actually do so?

    Seriously, I don't even know what point you are trying to make.
    That some posters are hypocrites

    In favour of Vaccine Nationalism when it benefits "us"

    Against vaccine Nationalism when it favours "them"

    IMO Vaccine Nationalism is bad no ifs no buts
    I don't think anyone here has been advocating export bans, just what to do with the stock we've bought and paid for.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    Scott_xP said:

    Can someone do a welfare check of Scott

    You could read the thread.

    Dick
    The hostility on here addressed to you by your fellow Conservatives, just because you consider Brexit and PM Johnson to both be monumental errors, is becoming quite unpleasant.

    We seem to be losing a few anti-Johnson, anti-Brexit posters, which is a shame. I can see why. If the only acceptable opinion becomes pro-Johnson and anti -EU the site is diminished, and it has always been a great site.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,314
    Some day the Empire Commission will fall because it is Buggins's Von Der Leyen's turn.
  • kle4 said:


    Weren't some PBers in favour of export bans of AZ earlier in the week because we needed it first.

    But a Pfizer export ban for exactly the same reason by the EU is tantamount to WWIII

    Even if someone on here did, are you actually suggesting that random yahoos mouthing off on a forum has equivalence with the might of the EU Commission deciding to actually do so?

    Seriously, I don't even know what point you are trying to make.
    That some posters are hypocrites

    In favour of Vaccine Nationalism when it benefits "us"

    Against vaccine Nationalism when it favours "them"

    IMO Vaccine Nationalism is bad no ifs no buts
    I would suggest you look in the mirror
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited January 2021
    maaarsh said:

    stodge said:

    maaarsh said:


    29k is more than 25% down week on week despite a 14% increase in number of tests - this week the percentage decline has been accelerating off the very stable path it had been on - good reason to be optimistic we're seeing the vaccine start to have an impact.

    It may be the vaccine - it may be lockdown restrictions having an impact.

    The transport use numbers are informative - car traffic about half of pre-Covid levels, tube passenger numbers 15% of pre-Covid levels, national rail passenger numbers 13% of pre-Covid levels.

    People ARE staying home and following the guidelines and inevitably that is reducing contacts and therefore transmissions. Is the vaccine having an impact? I'd argue not as many of those vaccinated were effectively shielding,

    The more worrying story is how the second wave was fuelled by employers dragging staff back to offices and only paying lip service to Covid related health and hygiene guidelines.

    This nonsense, perpetrated by Johnson among others, was seized on by companies with weak or non-existent remote IT capability, to compel workers back into offices.
    There was a constant rate of decline for the first 2 weeks of lockdown and now, 3 weeks after the vaccine effort ramped up, it has accelerated -

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1355187197180334084

    Seems rather unlikely that lockdown compliance has suddenly increased when cases were already falling. Combined with the hospital admissions falling much faster for over 85s than unders, I think we can see what is happening.
    Also this.

    https://twitter.com/DevanSinha/status/1355180664782548995
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,573

    Deaths finally updated...modest downward trend slightly stronger than yesterday:

    deaths peaked on the 19th, 1 day after max hospital occupancy - just the reporting is mega lagged but the way hospital numbers are falling a continued fall in deaths is now baked in thankfully
  • Scott_xP said:

    Can someone do a welfare check of Scott

    You could read the thread.

    Dick
    The hostility on here addressed to you by your fellow Conservatives, just because you consider Brexit and PM Johnson to both be monumental errors, is becoming quite unpleasant.

    We seem to be losing a few anti-Johnson, anti-Brexit posters, which is a shame. I can see why. If the only acceptable opinion becomes pro-Johnson and anti -EU the site is diminished, and it has always been a great site.
    There are plenty of anti Johnson and anti Brexit posters on here who are excellent contributors and their leaving would be a real loss to the site.

    Then there is Scott n paste....
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:


    Weren't some PBers in favour of export bans of AZ earlier in the week because we needed it first.

    But a Pfizer export ban for exactly the same reason by the EU is tantamount to WWIII

    Even if someone on here did, are you actually suggesting that random yahoos mouthing off on a forum has equivalence with the might of the EU Commission deciding to actually do so?

    Seriously, I don't even know what point you are trying to make.
    That some posters are hypocrites

    In favour of Vaccine Nationalism when it benefits "us"

    Against vaccine Nationalism when it favours "them"

    IMO Vaccine Nationalism is bad no ifs no buts
    This isn't even vaccine nationalism, it's vaccine stealing.
    Presumably "we"or Pfizer have a plan B to get "our" 2nd Pfizer vaccines on time.

    Or maybe we dont need a plan B

    I see vaccine minister nadhim zahawi said only yesterday he is confident there will be no disruption
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    maaarsh said:
    (We are all still here aren't we? Nobody been Raptured?)
    I don't think we would be prime candidates for noticing the rapture as en event.

    As for how far things could now go, the problem is the EU seems to be increasing escalation, not deescalating. As they are the only ones doing any escalating, only they can calm the f*ck down, but they seem to be feeding off...something that is ratcheting everything up.
    I've just been reading the Guardian write up on the export control exempt list.

    On list: Syria, Belarus, Libya
    Off list: UK, US, Canada

    They're essentially willing to ship this stuff to Assad, Lukashenko and an anarchic war zone with no questions asked, but not to their three principal Western allies.

    At this rate NATO will be dead in a week.
    Hey, we're the new axis of evil.
    And Australia - they must hate the English speaking world.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,817

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:


    Weren't some PBers in favour of export bans of AZ earlier in the week because we needed it first.

    But a Pfizer export ban for exactly the same reason by the EU is tantamount to WWIII

    Even if someone on here did, are you actually suggesting that random yahoos mouthing off on a forum has equivalence with the might of the EU Commission deciding to actually do so?

    Seriously, I don't even know what point you are trying to make.
    That some posters are hypocrites

    In favour of Vaccine Nationalism when it benefits "us"

    Against vaccine Nationalism when it favours "them"

    IMO Vaccine Nationalism is bad no ifs no buts
    This isn't even vaccine nationalism, it's vaccine stealing.
    Presumably "we"or Pfizer have a plan B to get "our" 2nd Pfizer vaccines on time.

    Or maybe we dont need a plan B

    I see vaccine minister nadhim zahawi said only yesterday he is confident there will be no disruption
    Fear not, @HYUFD is already making preparations for a blockade run.
  • kle4 said:

    maaarsh said:
    (We are all still here aren't we? Nobody been Raptured?)
    I don't think we would be prime candidates for noticing the rapture as en event.

    As for how far things could now go, the problem is the EU seems to be increasing escalation, not deescalating. As they are the only ones doing any escalating, only they can calm the f*ck down, but they seem to be feeding off...something that is ratcheting everything up.
    I've just been reading the Guardian write up on the export control exempt list.

    On list: Syria, Belarus, Libya
    Off list: UK, US, Canada

    They're essentially willing to ship this stuff to Assad, Lukashenko and an anarchic war zone with no questions asked, but not to their three principal Western allies.

    At this rate NATO will be dead in a week.
    I'm sure Eastern European countries will have thoughts about possible consequences.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,573
    DougSeal said:

    maaarsh said:

    stodge said:

    maaarsh said:


    29k is more than 25% down week on week despite a 14% increase in number of tests - this week the percentage decline has been accelerating off the very stable path it had been on - good reason to be optimistic we're seeing the vaccine start to have an impact.

    It may be the vaccine - it may be lockdown restrictions having an impact.

    The transport use numbers are informative - car traffic about half of pre-Covid levels, tube passenger numbers 15% of pre-Covid levels, national rail passenger numbers 13% of pre-Covid levels.

    People ARE staying home and following the guidelines and inevitably that is reducing contacts and therefore transmissions. Is the vaccine having an impact? I'd argue not as many of those vaccinated were effectively shielding,

    The more worrying story is how the second wave was fuelled by employers dragging staff back to offices and only paying lip service to Covid related health and hygiene guidelines.

    This nonsense, perpetrated by Johnson among others, was seized on by companies with weak or non-existent remote IT capability, to compel workers back into offices.
    There was a constant rate of decline for the first 2 weeks of lockdown and now, 3 weeks after the vaccine effort ramped up, it has accelerated -

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1355187197180334084

    Seems rather unlikely that lockdown compliance has suddenly increased when cases were already falling. Combined with the hospital admissions falling much faster for over 85s than unders, I think we can see what is happening.
    Also this.

    https://twitter.com/DevanSinha/status/1355180664782548995
    Indeed. ONS survey came in flat today, but they had a big increase in cases where the viral load was so low they couldn't work out if it was the new strain or not - which suggests they were just getting new 'positives' from people who were infected a few weeks back and are basically recovered now.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,156
    edited January 2021
    Labour's shadow secretary of state for Northern Ireland:

    https://twitter.com/LouHaigh/status/1355225436159160321
  • kle4 said:

    maaarsh said:
    (We are all still here aren't we? Nobody been Raptured?)
    I don't think we would be prime candidates for noticing the rapture as en event.

    As for how far things could now go, the problem is the EU seems to be increasing escalation, not deescalating. As they are the only ones doing any escalating, only they can calm the f*ck down, but they seem to be feeding off...something that is ratcheting everything up.
    I've just been reading the Guardian write up on the export control exempt list.

    On list: Syria, Belarus, Libya
    Off list: UK, US, Canada

    They're essentially willing to ship this stuff to Assad, Lukashenko and an anarchic war zone with no questions asked, but not to their three principal Western allies.

    At this rate NATO will be dead in a week.
    Off list: Australia and NZ too.

    Then you've got the EU cosying up to China: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/31/china-eu-trade-deal-beijing-wants-more-agreements-after-europe-deal.html - while refusing to condemn them over Hong Kong or the Uighurs.

    The EU have abandoned the western alliance.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:


    Weren't some PBers in favour of export bans of AZ earlier in the week because we needed it first.

    But a Pfizer export ban for exactly the same reason by the EU is tantamount to WWIII

    Even if someone on here did, are you actually suggesting that random yahoos mouthing off on a forum has equivalence with the might of the EU Commission deciding to actually do so?

    Seriously, I don't even know what point you are trying to make.
    That some posters are hypocrites

    In favour of Vaccine Nationalism when it benefits "us"

    Against vaccine Nationalism when it favours "them"

    IMO Vaccine Nationalism is bad no ifs no buts
    This isn't even vaccine nationalism, it's vaccine stealing.
    Presumably "we"or Pfizer have a plan B to get "our" 2nd Pfizer vaccines on time.

    Or maybe we dont need a plan B

    I see vaccine minister nadhim zahawi said only yesterday he is confident there will be no disruption
    Fear not, @HYUFD is already making preparations for a blockade run.
    https://maltagc70.wordpress.com/tag/breconshire/
This discussion has been closed.