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In spite of the latest EU dealings those who think Brexit was wrong still have clear 8% lead with Yo

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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    RobD said:

    And this from the Irish Times:

    Northern Ireland first minister Arlene Foster branded the EU’s triggering of Article 16 an “incredible act of hostility” while Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald called it a “grave error’.

    There, the Shinners are onboard. We now have the UK Government, the Irish Coalition Government, Labour, the SDLP, the Alliance, the DUP and Sinn Fein all on the same side. A full house.
    Missing the SNP, no?
    I don't think it absolutely necessary every single political leader weight in super fast.
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    kle4 said:

    I'm not generally a fan of use of the term u-turn, but this seems like it would be a very appropriate usage.

    Perhaps the EU finally has realised they took their rhetoric too far and need to dial it back, as neither the UK nor AZ are playing ball to look super unreasonable and help them out.
    AZN reaction has been incredibly calm and collected. Like a comedian being repeatedly heckled with more and more outrageous slurs and just carrying on with their routine.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:


    Weren't some PBers in favour of export bans of AZ earlier in the week because we needed it first.

    But a Pfizer export ban for exactly the same reason by the EU is tantamount to WWIII



    No
    "Bricking up the Channel Tunnel" would suggest Yes
    What total and utter bollocks....admit it you can't point to a single post where someone has suggested we should keep vaccines from the EU take your europhilia and use it as a suppository
    John voted for Brexit.
    Pah, soft Brexiteers - traitors in the eyes of the People's Front of Brexit.
    Indeed and nothing goes up my arse

    Even if i talk out of it occasionally
    I am assuming as you keep posting but have failed to back up your assertion you are recanting...I think most will unless you back it up
    Not arsed
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    alex_ said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Chris Grayling combined with Gavin Williamson level incompetency.
    Lol - surely you print and scan???
    It should be hard to do what they did - when you redact using typical software it then prompts you to remove that additional level of info.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2021

    Oh, I don't think there was much doubt.....

    https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1355261100703571975?s=20

    She couldn't crib her answers over this crisis from an existing textbook...
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited January 2021

    Andy_JS said:
    And it's a big win too. Is it just the first, or the first and last?
    The Shagster is a jammy bastard, isn't he ? :)

    Basically, in the entire pandemic, he has got one thing right.

    The most important thing.

    If you were told at outset you could only get one thing right, you'd choose the vaccines.
    Your though process sounds like the logic one would anticipate from Andrew RT Davies.

    Personally, I don't think vaccine provision, masterminded by Cummings should be Johnson's get out of jail free card. It is an enormous victory for an incumbent, however the PPE debacle, track and trace, locking down late, opening up early, and horrific fatalities should not be forgotten. As you hinted some weeks ago, perhaps Johnson's earlier dereliction of duties should see him sharing Drakeford's cell.

    Your statement is something akin to "OK so I caused the motorway pile up, but despite the carnage and death toll, I saved the minibus full of Nuns, therefore I am exempt from a death by dangerous driving rap"!
    You think politicians ever pay for their misdeeds ...

    I am a good deal more cynical. I don't even expect Trump will end up in a dripping prison cell ... let alone Johnson or Drakeford.

    So, back to 'RT". Did the Welsh Tories do right? I can't quite decide myself.

    On the one hand, RT's a blustering, braying fool of a politician.

    But, on the other hand, there are a lot of UKIP voters to mop up in the Senedd elections ...
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    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    BTW - greetings to recent delurkers. Great to see you. Hope a few more appear as well.

    "Oh, hi, Mark!"
    Johnny [Foreigner]: 'You're tearing me apart, Pfizer!'
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,365
    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:
    For years I used to find supposedly redacted data on official precinct election canvass reports, for precincts with very small number of ballots, where all the votes cast in a particular race were for the same candidate.

    For some elections in some counties (which shall remain nameless) the numbers would be redacted on pdfs, however if you copied the data and uploaded it into a spreadsheet, the redacted numbers would appear.

    Reckon there are many more examples out there in the wide, wild world of IT.
    I once ran an entire sex discrimination case based upon someone forgetting to accept the tracked changes when sending the contract to m client.
    Please write a book. Will buy a copy in advance.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    Oh, I don't think there was much doubt.....

    https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1355261100703571975?s=20

    Presumably why the attempt to gaslight and say it wasn't actuallly triggered?
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,365

    Floater said:

    Come on people - give it up for the EU!!!

    https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/1355255576251527171

    Wow. They have finally united Ireland!!
    And I used to think that Bush I was impressive for getting the Arabs and Israelis to go to war - on the same side....
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    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's been very quiet this evening.

    Malc will be on tomorrow to tell us that the sainted Nicola is impervious and therefore untouchable 🤣🤣🤣
    And you're on tonight pursuing your weird, misogyny tinged grudge against Sturgeon, so situation normal.
    In fact you're so out of touch you don't even realise Malc is not Sturgeon's no 1 fan.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited January 2021

    Floater said:

    Come on people - give it up for the EU!!!

    https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/1355255576251527171

    Wait until Mark finds out the DUP and Sinn Fein are in government together, their partnership goes back to 2007.
    Doesn't mean they often issue similarly critical statements of the EU.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    And it shows they did it without asking Ireland.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    The Commission knows it has made a mistake all week, the issue is it has refused to admit it and has instead sought to start a vaccine war and blame others for it. So will they actually take action to stop this row? A row they started.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
    RobD said:

    And it shows they did it without asking Ireland.
    It was never about Ireland.....
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,603
    They'll be punished at the ballot box.

    Oh...
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,365
    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Come on people - give it up for the EU!!!

    https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/1355255576251527171

    Wait until Mark finds out the DUP and Sinn Fein are in government together, their partnership goes back to 2007.
    Doesn't mean they oftn issue similarly critical statements of the EU.
    They are Best Frenemies. They need each other. They hate each other. It's Batman and the Joker - if one of them won, it would ruin the game.
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's been very quiet this evening.

    Malc will be on tomorrow to tell us that the sainted Nicola is impervious and therefore untouchable 🤣🤣🤣
    I think Malc is happy to put the boot into Sturgeon when he gets the chance. Don't forget his only definite non familial loyalties are to Sindy and Alex Salmond.
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    To be honest she must be the only person in the world who didn't realise that.
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    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:


    Weren't some PBers in favour of export bans of AZ earlier in the week because we needed it first.

    But a Pfizer export ban for exactly the same reason by the EU is tantamount to WWIII



    No
    "Bricking up the Channel Tunnel" would suggest Yes
    What total and utter bollocks....admit it you can't point to a single post where someone has suggested we should keep vaccines from the EU take your europhilia and use it as a suppository
    John voted for Brexit.
    Pah, soft Brexiteers - traitors in the eyes of the People's Front of Brexit.
    Indeed and nothing goes up my arse

    Even if i talk out of it occasionally
    I am assuming as you keep posting but have failed to back up your assertion you are recanting...I think most will unless you back it up
    Not arsed
    so we will all take it you were talking out of your arse
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,576
    edited January 2021

    Andy_JS said:
    For years I used to find supposedly redacted data on official precinct election canvass reports, for precincts with very small number of ballots, where all the votes cast in a particular race were for the same candidate.

    For some elections in some counties (which shall remain nameless) the numbers would be redacted on pdfs, however if you copied the data and uploaded it into a spreadsheet, the redacted numbers would appear.

    Reckon there are many more examples out there in the wide, wild world of IT.
    Definitely. I suppose it's similar to the situation where people who don't understand computers believe that by putting documents in the trash/wastebasket they really have deleted them from the computer's hard drive.
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    Floater said:

    Come on people - give it up for the EU!!!

    https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/1355255576251527171

    Wait until Mark finds out the DUP and Sinn Fein are in government together, their partnership goes back to 2007.
    Yeah, but a "partnership" to share out NI govt jobs & other goodies.

    THIS is rather different, though anti-COVID jabs ARE very good goodies, as goodies go.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,365

    And this from the Irish Times:

    Northern Ireland first minister Arlene Foster branded the EU’s triggering of Article 16 an “incredible act of hostility” while Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald called it a “grave error’.

    There, the Shinners are onboard. We now have the UK Government, the Irish Coalition Government, Labour, the SDLP, the Alliance, the DUP and Sinn Fein all on the same side. A full house.
    What a mess but the EU always have Nicola to call on
    Have the The Really Really Keeping' It Real IRA issued a statement yet? Also the fuckwit Loyalist Parties haven't shown up, yet? So its just the (semi) grown ups in Ireland so far.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited January 2021
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:
    For years I used to find supposedly redacted data on official precinct election canvass reports, for precincts with very small number of ballots, where all the votes cast in a particular race were for the same candidate.

    For some elections in some counties (which shall remain nameless) the numbers would be redacted on pdfs, however if you copied the data and uploaded it into a spreadsheet, the redacted numbers would appear.

    Reckon there are many more examples out there in the wide, wild world of IT.
    Definitely. I suppose it's similar to the situation where people who don't understand computers believe that by putting documents in the trash/wastebasket they really have deleted them from the computer's hard drive.
    And if they empty the trash they definitely have.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,413

    Pulpstar said:

    Sturgeon's been very quiet this evening.

    BJ statesman-like reticence

    Sturgeon's been very quiet
    And to be fair I'm not sure what either could say that would help at this stage.

    Not that that usually stops most politicians.
    There's more of a local 'he said she said' spat with the UK and Scottish Governments over what figures should be released regarding numbers of vaccine doses allocated to Scotland. That argument seems to be getting a good deal more coverage than the wider situation of the vaccine wars.

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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    kle4 said:
    UUP leader Steve Aiken said Northern Ireland Secretary Brandon Lewis should be embarrassed. “The EU is unilaterally invoking Article 16 to protect its own interests and it’s about time the UK government did the same instead of being lead actors in a ridiculous charade that there is no border in the Irish Sea and that Article 16 can’t be invoked.”

    (Presumably backing the DUP position of using Article 16 to resolve supermarket delivery issues, which the UK Government still declines to do.)
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    In theory the parliament can no confidence them on a 2 3rds majority. In theory.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    IshmaelZ said:

    In theory the parliament can no confidence them on a 2 3rds majority. In theory.
    Why not a simple majority?
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    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844
    IshmaelZ said:

    In theory the parliament can no confidence them on a 2 3rds majority. In theory.
    The eu parliament has always done what they are told
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,413
    edited January 2021
    kle4 said:
    The Lib Dems are both very concerned.
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    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Can someone do a welfare check of Scott

    You could read the thread.

    Dick
    The hostility on here addressed to you by your fellow Conservatives, just because you consider Brexit and PM Johnson to both be monumental errors, is becoming quite unpleasant.

    We seem to be losing a few anti-Johnson, anti-Brexit posters, which is a shame. I can see why. If the only acceptable opinion becomes pro-Johnson and anti -EU the site is diminished, and it has always been a great site.
    There are plenty of anti Johnson and anti Brexit posters on here who are excellent contributors and their leaving would be a real loss to the site.

    Then there is Scott n paste....
    There you go again, and those
    people who have "liked" your post. To be fair you were not someone I had in mind when I posted.

    Carlotta re-posts anti, EU, pro-Union, pro-Conservative tweets and articles throughout the days. I have no problem with either re-posting, In fact it saves me researching myself. Nonetheless the reaction to each poster is less than even handed.
    She also makes a large number of posts which are her own words, opinions and interpretations. Scott does none of these things. He just posts tweets and articles he thinks will help his cause - often it seems without even reading them as the body of articles often contradicts what he thinks is said in the headline.

    There is a world of difference between Scott and Carlotta.
    He's still more valuable than someone repeatedly posting, to the exclusion of all else, that there won't be a new Scottish Referendum because the Tories won't permit it. Not that anyone would I am sure.
    Now you know you have hit my soft spot there don't you. I am forced to agree with you even though it undermines my point.

    You should be a lawyer :)
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    Floater said:

    A Louisiana cemetery has apologised after refusing to bury a local black police officer because of a decades-old provision allowing only white people.

    The Oaklin Springs Cemetery board met on Thursday to change its sales contract after an outcry over the "white human beings" rule....

    Cemetery board president H Creig Vizena called the old policy "horrible" and "stupid" telling US media on Thursday that none of the board members had noticed the provision before.


    Why the f*ck did they not meet to change their rules once it was brought to their attention before refusing the burial? Ah

    The cemetery worker who had denied the plot was Mr Vizena's 81-year-old aunt, who has been "relieved of her duties," he told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,077

    Scott_xP said:

    Can someone do a welfare check of Scott

    You could read the thread.

    Dick
    The hostility on here addressed to you by your fellow Conservatives, just because you consider Brexit and PM Johnson to both be monumental errors, is becoming quite unpleasant.

    We seem to be losing a few anti-Johnson, anti-Brexit posters, which is a shame. I can see why. If the only acceptable opinion becomes pro-Johnson and anti -EU the site is diminished, and it has always been a great site.
    There are plenty of anti Johnson and anti Brexit posters on here who are excellent contributors and their leaving would be a real loss to the site.

    Then there is Scott n paste....
    There you go again, and those
    people who have "liked" your post. To be fair you were not someone I had in mind when I posted.

    Carlotta re-posts anti, EU, pro-Union, pro-Conservative tweets and articles throughout the days. I have no problem with either re-posting, In fact it saves me researching myself. Nonetheless the reaction to each poster is less than even handed.
    She also makes a large number of posts which are her own words, opinions and interpretations. Scott does none of these things. He just posts tweets and articles he thinks will help his cause - often it seems without even reading them as the body of articles often contradicts what he thinks is said in the headline.

    There is a world of difference between Scott and Carlotta.
    Scott is ludicrously europhile, and is a relentless cut n paster, but I say: let a thousand flowers bloom. You can just skim over his comments, so who cares. And he quite often pastes some interesting info,

    I agree with @theuniondivvie, who I am sure will be delighted - unless someone is outright racist, violently threatening, or - heaven forbid - wildly and abusively insulting, let them be. That is the joy of this site, it has so many voices, meaning it is still the best on the web for reading informed UK news and opinions

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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    I've been reading the Spiegel piece on von der Leyen's long history of making a fucking mess and then failing upwards, leaving someone else to wield the pooper scooper behind her.

    Her problem this time around is that, as President of the European Commission, there's nowhere left to fail upwards to.

    But yes, more likely than not the Brit blaming will get her through the immediate crisis, the vaccines will start to turn up in greater quantities and she'll survive.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,137

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Can someone do a welfare check of Scott

    You could read the thread.

    Dick
    The hostility on here addressed to you by your fellow Conservatives, just because you consider Brexit and PM Johnson to both be monumental errors, is becoming quite unpleasant.

    We seem to be losing a few anti-Johnson, anti-Brexit posters, which is a shame. I can see why. If the only acceptable opinion becomes pro-Johnson and anti -EU the site is diminished, and it has always been a great site.
    There are plenty of anti Johnson and anti Brexit posters on here who are excellent contributors and their leaving would be a real loss to the site.

    Then there is Scott n paste....
    There you go again, and those
    people who have "liked" your post. To be fair you were not someone I had in mind when I posted.

    Carlotta re-posts anti, EU, pro-Union, pro-Conservative tweets and articles throughout the days. I have no problem with either re-posting, In fact it saves me researching myself. Nonetheless the reaction to each poster is less than even handed.
    She also makes a large number of posts which are her own words, opinions and interpretations. Scott does none of these things. He just posts tweets and articles he thinks will help his cause - often it seems without even reading them as the body of articles often contradicts what he thinks is said in the headline.

    There is a world of difference between Scott and Carlotta.
    He's still more valuable than someone repeatedly posting, to the exclusion of all else, that there won't be a new Scottish Referendum because the Tories won't permit it. Not that anyone would I am sure.
    Now you know you have hit my soft spot there don't you. I am forced to agree with you even though it undermines my point.

    You should be a lawyer :)
    Don't. Heeding those exact words is something I have regretted for about 2 decades now...
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    In theory the parliament can no confidence them on a 2 3rds majority. In theory.
    Why not a simple majority?
    Because that might be achievable
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    edited January 2021
    Scott_xP said:
    Failing to notify one of their members, Ireland, and failing to follow treaty obligations to notify the UK was a "mistake" and "oversight"?
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,603

    Completely off topic (although linked to a bit of a discussion earlier) I have been watching "The Brokenwood Mysteries", a sort of New Zeeland version of Midsomer Murders. Would recommend to those who like their crime dramas not too gritty (and don't mind a steady stream of Country and Western on the soundtrack).

    I enjoy it. The NZ accent can be a bit much, however.

    Also, I keep referring to it as the "Brokenwind Mysteries". Which soon stops being amusing.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,077
    Hhahahahahahah
    ahahahahahah

    HAHAHAHAHAHAH

    This is like watching a world renowned opera singer publicly shit herself at the Royal Albert Hall as she attempts the Holle Roche aria from the Magic Flute, while inexplicably wearing nothing but a peep-hole bra
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    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Can someone do a welfare check of Scott

    You could read the thread.

    Dick
    The hostility on here addressed to you by your fellow Conservatives, just because you consider Brexit and PM Johnson to both be monumental errors, is becoming quite unpleasant.

    We seem to be losing a few anti-Johnson, anti-Brexit posters, which is a shame. I can see why. If the only acceptable opinion becomes pro-Johnson and anti -EU the site is diminished, and it has always been a great site.
    There are plenty of anti Johnson and anti Brexit posters on here who are excellent contributors and their leaving would be a real loss to the site.

    Then there is Scott n paste....
    There you go again, and those
    people who have "liked" your post. To be fair you were not someone I had in mind when I posted.

    Carlotta re-posts anti, EU, pro-Union, pro-Conservative tweets and articles throughout the days. I have no problem with either re-posting, In fact it saves me researching myself. Nonetheless the reaction to each poster is less than even handed.
    She also makes a large number of posts which are her own words, opinions and interpretations. Scott does none of these things. He just posts tweets and articles he thinks will help his cause - often it seems without even reading them as the body of articles often contradicts what he thinks is said in the headline.

    There is a world of difference between Scott and Carlotta.
    He's still more valuable than someone repeatedly posting, to the exclusion of all else, that there won't be a new Scottish Referendum because the Tories won't permit it. Not that anyone would I am sure.
    Now you know you have hit my soft spot there don't you. I am forced to agree with you even though it undermines my point.

    You should be a lawyer :)
    Don't. Heeding those exact words is something I have regretted for about 2 decades now...
    Now the eu has declared war we should absolutely reciprocate....funnel the chemicals for pfizer to other plants. People get the government they deserve. The EU nations elected these half wits
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Looks as if the EU have now withdrawn the Article 16 invocation.

    This is a terrible end to a terrible week for the EU. Un-bel-ievable.
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    Scott_xP said:
    About believable as Boris just having some computer lessons off that American lady....
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    The Dutch really aren't even trying...
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,137
    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Can someone do a welfare check of Scott

    You could read the thread.

    Dick
    The hostility on here addressed to you by your fellow Conservatives, just because you consider Brexit and PM Johnson to both be monumental errors, is becoming quite unpleasant.

    We seem to be losing a few anti-Johnson, anti-Brexit posters, which is a shame. I can see why. If the only acceptable opinion becomes pro-Johnson and anti -EU the site is diminished, and it has always been a great site.
    There are plenty of anti Johnson and anti Brexit posters on here who are excellent contributors and their leaving would be a real loss to the site.

    Then there is Scott n paste....
    There you go again, and those
    people who have "liked" your post. To be fair you were not someone I had in mind when I posted.

    Carlotta re-posts anti, EU, pro-Union, pro-Conservative tweets and articles throughout the days. I have no problem with either re-posting, In fact it saves me researching myself. Nonetheless the reaction to each poster is less than even handed.
    She also makes a large number of posts which are her own words, opinions and interpretations. Scott does none of these things. He just posts tweets and articles he thinks will help his cause - often it seems without even reading them as the body of articles often contradicts what he thinks is said in the headline.

    There is a world of difference between Scott and Carlotta.
    He's still more valuable than someone repeatedly posting, to the exclusion of all else, that there won't be a new Scottish Referendum because the Tories won't permit it. Not that anyone would I am sure.
    Now you know you have hit my soft spot there don't you. I am forced to agree with you even though it undermines my point.

    You should be a lawyer :)
    Don't. Heeding those exact words is something I have regretted for about 2 decades now...
    Now the eu has declared war we should absolutely reciprocate....funnel the chemicals for pfizer to other plants. People get the government they deserve. The EU nations elected these half wits
    Okay - not quite sure what that has to do with my career choices but your strong views are noted.
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,561
    edited January 2021

    To be honest she must be the only person in the world who didn't realise that.
    Arlene Foster would NOT be my first choice on just about any ballot.

    However, think that she's proven herself to be a pretty savvy political leader. AND in a league that is WAY more cutthroat than (even) the EU.

    Her statement in this instance is just about perfect; just enough of a dig at the EU for her own base, but not TOO much, making it easy for Dublin, UPP, Alliance, SDLP AND Sinn Fein to stand on the same basic ground.
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Basically pretty much everything Brexiteers said has been proven true tonight.

    Their invocation of Article 16 is astonishing. Absolutely astonishing.

    I bet Joe Biden who favours them isn't too amused ...
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    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844

    Looks as if the EU have now withdrawn the Article 16 invocation.

    This is a terrible end to a terrible week for the EU. Un-bel-ievable.

    Have they withdrawn the threat of article 122?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited January 2021
    Scott_xP said:
    Totally convincing face saving explanation. Just a mistake. Someone drafted the regulation, various people approved it, announced it, put it on the internet and so on, all without proper approval from appropriate decision makers.

    Actually, since they didn't even bother to inform the PM of Ireland about it, that might actually be semi plausible.

    We've all been hotheads and said things we regret, right? Actually that's only been the EU this week, but nevermind.
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    They perhaps need to sort out their scheme of delegations... ;)
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    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844
    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Can someone do a welfare check of Scott

    You could read the thread.

    Dick
    The hostility on here addressed to you by your fellow Conservatives, just because you consider Brexit and PM Johnson to both be monumental errors, is becoming quite unpleasant.

    We seem to be losing a few anti-Johnson, anti-Brexit posters, which is a shame. I can see why. If the only acceptable opinion becomes pro-Johnson and anti -EU the site is diminished, and it has always been a great site.
    There are plenty of anti Johnson and anti Brexit posters on here who are excellent contributors and their leaving would be a real loss to the site.

    Then there is Scott n paste....
    There you go again, and those
    people who have "liked" your post. To be fair you were not someone I had in mind when I posted.

    Carlotta re-posts anti, EU, pro-Union, pro-Conservative tweets and articles throughout the days. I have no problem with either re-posting, In fact it saves me researching myself. Nonetheless the reaction to each poster is less than even handed.
    She also makes a large number of posts which are her own words, opinions and interpretations. Scott does none of these things. He just posts tweets and articles he thinks will help his cause - often it seems without even reading them as the body of articles often contradicts what he thinks is said in the headline.

    There is a world of difference between Scott and Carlotta.
    He's still more valuable than someone repeatedly posting, to the exclusion of all else, that there won't be a new Scottish Referendum because the Tories won't permit it. Not that anyone would I am sure.
    Now you know you have hit my soft spot there don't you. I am forced to agree with you even though it undermines my point.

    You should be a lawyer :)
    Don't. Heeding those exact words is something I have regretted for about 2 decades now...
    Now the eu has declared war we should absolutely reciprocate....funnel the chemicals for pfizer to other plants. People get the government they deserve. The EU nations elected these half wits
    Okay - not quite sure what that has to do with my career choices but your strong views are noted.
    blinks when did I mention your career choices?
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,365
    Settling down to watch

    https://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-gravy-train/on-demand/7476-001

    Alexi Style as a demented plum salesman
    Ernst Stavro Blofeld (very young) as a hapless Eurocrat

    Hmmmmmmmm.......
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,576
    O/T

    26th July 1990 on BBC 4 / Top of the Pops.
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    Boris Johnson says EU must "urgently clarify its intentions" after bloc introduces export controls on vaccines to Northern Ireland
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    https://twitter.com/Philip_Ryan/status/1355258434552274946

    Go on - what level of dipshit technocrat signed off on this then
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Lol, having read the Spiegel piece on UvDL I half expected a junior minion to take the blame for this.

    Still, even with this stupid A16 stuff resolved the underlying export ban mechanism will come back and that's still a threat to vaccine supplies of the UK, US, Canada and Australia.

    The western alliance is fracturing before our very eyes.
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    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,885
    That's the kind of thing you could have imagined Trump saying after pressing the nuclear button and vaporizing Tehran
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Boris Johnson says EU must "urgently clarify its intentions" after bloc introduces export controls on vaccines to Northern Ireland

    Statement goes on

    The U.K. has legally-binding agreements with vaccine suppliers and it would not expect the EU, as a friend and ally, to do anything to disrupt the fulfilment of these contracts.

    "as a friend and ally" - I can see a threat in that
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited January 2021
    alex_ said:

    They perhaps need to sort out their scheme of delegations... ;)
    I find it very unlikely that people would be sacked by the EU Commission, but I do find it hard to see how someone, somewhere, could not be fired for 'inadvertently' triggering a major political and policy decision, which drew immediate condemnation from allies and the head of government in the EU Member staet most affect.

    It's very nearly a worse explanation than doing it intentionally. It's the 'Im stupid, not malevolent' style of explanation levlled up to a massive organisation.
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited January 2021
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:
    That was before the EU commission went publicly insane.
    Yep. If we had a vote in a week's time once the tabloids had gone to town on this the vote would be 60:40 or more in favour of Brexit. Probably 70:30.

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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    So it can be triggered by "someone who does not understand its implications"?

    That's reassuring.....
    Always a danger of nuclear options.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2021

    So it can be triggered by "someone who does not understand its implications"?

    That's reassuring.....
    Well they clearly didn't understand the contract they signed with AZN....as they publish as if they have killer evidence and even very pro-European lawyers have been saying it doesn't say what you keep claiming.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:
    That was before the EU commission went publicly insane.
    One thing that we know about Brexit is that minds are not easily changed.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    So it can be triggered by "someone who does not understand its implications"?

    That's reassuring.....
    Yeah Ursula.
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Basically pretty much everything Brexiteers said has been proven true tonight.

    Their invocation of Article 16 is astonishing. Absolutely astonishing.

    I bet Joe Biden who favours them isn't too amused ...

    Backpedalling on the use of Article 16 to stop the Evil Brits from getting their hands on EU vaccines just leaves the small matter of our exclusion from the export ban exemption list.

    The whole of Europe except Russia, Turkey and the UK is on that list. But no particular countries were targeted. Oh no. Definitely not.

    Once again, Syria, Libya, Belarus: exempt. US, UK, Canada: threatened.

    The EU is not our friend.
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    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson says EU must "urgently clarify its intentions" after bloc introduces export controls on vaccines to Northern Ireland

    Statement goes on

    The U.K. has legally-binding agreements with vaccine suppliers and it would not expect the EU, as a friend and ally, to do anything to disrupt the fulfilment of these contracts.

    "as a friend and ally" - I can see a threat in that
    Boris has judged this to perfection to be fair
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    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson says EU must "urgently clarify its intentions" after bloc introduces export controls on vaccines to Northern Ireland

    Statement goes on

    The U.K. has legally-binding agreements with vaccine suppliers and it would not expect the EU, as a friend and ally, to do anything to disrupt the fulfilment of these contracts.

    "as a friend and ally" - I can see a threat in that
    Boris has judged this to perfection to be fair
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    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844
    alex_ said:

    So it can be triggered by "someone who does not understand its implications"?

    That's reassuring.....
    Always a danger of nuclear options.
    Expel eu nations from nato, yes russia will take them over but at least they will be vaccinated with sputnik
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Floater said:

    Boris Johnson says EU must "urgently clarify its intentions" after bloc introduces export controls on vaccines to Northern Ireland

    Statement goes on

    The U.K. has legally-binding agreements with vaccine suppliers and it would not expect the EU, as a friend and ally, to do anything to disrupt the fulfilment of these contracts.

    "as a friend and ally" - I can see a threat in that
    Boris has judged this to perfection to be fair
    I agree absolutely - our Government has been remarkably sure footed over this
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2021
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:
    That was before the EU commission went publicly insane.
    One thing that we know about Brexit is that minds are not easily changed.
    The EU...willing to throw your Granny under the bus because they f##ked up...good luck trying to get much past that one during a campaign.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Basically pretty much everything Brexiteers said has been proven true tonight.

    Their invocation of Article 16 is astonishing. Absolutely astonishing.

    I bet Joe Biden who favours them isn't too amused ...

    Backpedalling on the use of Article 16 to stop the Evil Brits from getting their hands on EU vaccines just leaves the small matter of our exclusion from the export ban exemption list.

    The whole of Europe except Russia, Turkey and the UK is on that list. But no particular countries were targeted. Oh no. Definitely not.

    Once again, Syria, Libya, Belarus: exempt. US, UK, Canada: threatened.

    The EU is not our friend.
    That's got to be the best anti-EU recruitment this country has had since Merkel decided to let all and sundry enter Europe.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    The BBC Six O'Clock News didn't really talk about the implications for Ireland so I thought it would be interesting to see what they said at 10pm. Looks like they might be able to pretend it never happened!
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,413
    I feel a bit sorry for the European Commission now - without condoning their behaviour for a second. It's an absolutely shit situation.

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    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:
    That was before the EU commission went publicly insane.
    One thing that we know about Brexit is that minds are not easily changed.
    Plenty on evidence on here they are changing rapidly
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited January 2021
    I suspect Joe Biden may step in soon. And I'm no longer sure it will be on the EU's side.

    Anyone who rocks Ireland (apart from U2, obvs) is in deep shit with Joe.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,077
    Foxy said:
    As the UK and EU diverge, that Rejoin will fall away. Also, there is almost zero appetite for another divisive referendum for the foreseeable future. All my Remainer friends, even the most ardent, have no appetite to revive the argument. They have accepted. They are sad. They regret it, But they accept it. I literally don't know anyone who wants "another vote"

    We are out. And we will stay out probably forever.

    What is possible is us rejoining a version of the Single Market, in a few years. But both sides will have to give ground, and they will, as this will be mutually beneficial
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,137
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:
    That was before the EU commission went publicly insane.
    What a waste of time, Polling on the next UK election at the moment is pretty meaningless and that will be held little more than 3 years from now. There won't be another EU Referendum in my lifetime, or at least not one until I am in a the highest priority group for the Covid-54 vaccine.
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    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Has anyone seen @AlastairMeeks so we can get an explanation on why the EU are right about invoking Article 16 and this is actually the UK Government's fault?
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    MrEd said:

    Has anyone seen @AlastairMeeks so we can get an explanation on why the EU are right about invoking Article 16 and this is actually the UK Government's fault?

    :smiley::smiley::smiley:
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    In theory the parliament can no confidence them on a 2 3rds majority. In theory.
    Why not a simple majority?
    I can't remember what I had in mind when I wrote that particular rule. The precedent of US impeachment perhaps.
This discussion has been closed.