By the way, if vaccines ordered by the UK are blocked from export to the UK (and re-allocated to EU orders - specifically Pfizer ones), I do NOT want exports of essential ingredients from the UK to the EU blocked, UNLESS it can be specifically shown that they are needed at production sites that ARE supplying the UK. In no way do I want 'revenge' - that would be madness. The most important thing is that vaccines are made, and get given to someone, fast.
Agree.
Likewise. This could kill actual, real people.
What would a vaccine export ban to the UK and all of he other nations not included in the EU's list of exemptions do then?
We have an obligation to the rest of the world to ensure the precious materials we supply are used for vaccines that can be exported everywhere in the world, not just where some Eurocrat decides is worthy of receiving it.
It's a fine judgment - *IF* it comes to it, which it hasn't yet. As others have pointed out, taking action which would compromise EU vaccine production is ultimately counterproductive. There are alternative means of expressing displeasure forcefully though. The disputed status of the EU representative in London would become moot if he were to be thrown out.
I'm suggesting that we work with Pfizer to help them ramp up alternative production sites not that we completely stop supplying these products. As I said, it's not just us that get fucked by this. There are many, many countries that are getting the Pfizer vaccine from the Belgian manufacturing, we have an obligation to them more than we do to the EU IMO. It's sad that our actions could increase the misery for millions of our friends and neighbours, they will pay the price for the idiocy of their politicians. We can't let UK, Canadian, Mexican and citizens of other countries pay the price for the decisions of these Eurocrats.
I truly, truly wish it won't come to that and this is still just posturing taken to an 11/10 position. I'm still holding on to that hope that they won't make this stupid move to block vaccine supplies, but it looks more and more likely to happen every day.
It’s the Telegraph, so I’d need to see another source to believe it, but that really would be mad. Seizing IP from pharma companies?! Do they want an industry...?
I cling to the fact that Ambrose wrote it
Now AEP is usually always wrong but that's more because of his long term thinking more than anything else.
Which means I do wonder if he is correct here and the EU may have lost all sense of commonsense - now that they need 1 billion vaccines and won't have enough for probably a year.
Some of us "remainers" play the long game. Several things can be true at once:
1. There's no doubt that the EU have made a complete mess of their vaccine strategy, and seem to keep digging once they are in a hole. Not much disagreement here on that, just different levels of excitability.
2. The most likely outcome is that this whole episode, which has excited so many on here, will blow over in due course and global vaccinations will continue apace. Helpfully, thus far the UK government has done well not to inflame tensions; I hope that continues.
3. Nobody I know is campaigning for, or expects, the UK to rejoin the EU in the short or medium term.
4. The vaccine shambles doesn't really tell us much about Brexit. Brexit may be a success, it may be a failure; most probably somewhere in between. But we only properly left the EU a month ago, so I don't believe anybody can be sure about how things will pan out yet. I'll give it three years before I can make a judgement.
It is not so much that but the damage they have done to themselves, and the effect it will have going forward on pharmaceutical and other inward investment into the EU
The EU is a big enough market for it always to attract inward investment. But there is no getting round the fact that the Commission - and now some member states - are making absolute dicks of themselves. My guess is that it is for domestic consumption. Politicians and bureaucrats who have buggered up monumentally are bouncing any number of dead cats in the hope one gets noticed. The fact is that any EU member state could have done what the UK did. None of them chose to do so. The national governments of each country own that decision and they clearly do not want to be held to account for it. The UK has done nothing wrong. In fact, for once it has actually done the right thing. And that is the problem across the Channel.
It’s the Telegraph, so I’d need to see another source to believe it, but that really would be mad. Seizing IP from pharma companies?! Do they want an industry...?
I cling to the fact that Ambrose wrote it
Now AEP is usually always wrong but that's more because of his long term thinking more than anything else.
Which means I do wonder if he is correct here and the EU may have lost all sense of commonsense - now that they need 1 billion vaccines and won't have enough for probably a year.
It’s the Telegraph, so I’d need to see another source to believe it, but that really would be mad. Seizing IP from pharma companies?! Do they want an industry...?
I cling to the fact that Ambrose wrote it
Now AEP is usually always wrong but that's more because of his long term thinking more than anything else.
Which means I do wonder if he is correct here and the EU may have lost all sense of commonsense - now that they need 1 billion vaccines and won't have enough for probably a year.
The first time I read one of his articles was 2008 - I admit it scared me
Someone pointed out to me that he is errr, a tad prone to excitement
Some of us "remainers" play the long game. Several things can be true at once:
1. There's no doubt that the EU have made a complete mess of their vaccine strategy, and seem to keep digging once they are in a hole. Not much disagreement here on that, just different levels of excitability.
2. The most likely outcome is that this whole episode, which has excited so many on here, will blow over in due course and global vaccinations will continue apace. Helpfully, thus far the UK government has done well not to inflame tensions; I hope that continues.
3. Nobody I know is campaigning for, or expects, the UK to rejoin the EU in the short or medium term.
4. The vaccine shambles doesn't really tell us much about Brexit. Brexit may be a success, it may be a failure; most probably somewhere in between. But we only properly left the EU a month ago, so I don't believe anybody can be sure about how things will pan out yet. I'll give it three years before I can make a judgement.
It is not so much that but the damage they have done to themselves, and the effect it will have going forward on pharmaceutical and other inward investment into the EU
The EU is a big enough market for it always to attract inward investment. But there is no getting round the fact that the Commission - and now some member states - are making absolute dicks of themselves. My guess is that it is for domestic consumption. Politicians and bureaucrats who have buggered up monumentally are bouncing any number of dead cats in the hope one gets noticed. The fact is that any EU member state could have done what the UK did. None of them chose to do so. The national governments of each country own that decision and they clearly do not want to be held to account for it. The UK has done nothing wrong. In fact, for once it has actually done the right thing. And that is the problem across the Channel.
It's amazing how well the UK Govt can do when it actually resists the need to parrot the popular press. Even if they do decide that there is a need to implement retaliatory measures on some level, they would be well advised to keep quiet about it. Would be far more effective.
Some of us "remainers" play the long game. Several things can be true at once:
1. There's no doubt that the EU have made a complete mess of their vaccine strategy, and seem to keep digging once they are in a hole. Not much disagreement here on that, just different levels of excitability.
2. The most likely outcome is that this whole episode, which has excited so many on here, will blow over in due course and global vaccinations will continue apace. Helpfully, thus far the UK government has done well not to inflame tensions; I hope that continues.
3. Nobody I know is campaigning for, or expects, the UK to rejoin the EU in the short or medium term.
4. The vaccine shambles doesn't really tell us much about Brexit. Brexit may be a success, it may be a failure; most probably somewhere in between. But we only properly left the EU a month ago, so I don't believe anybody can be sure about how things will pan out yet. I'll give it three years before I can make a judgement.
It is not so much that but the damage they have done to themselves, and the effect it will have going forward on pharmaceutical and other inward investment into the EU
The EU is a big enough market for it always to attract inward investment. But there is no getting round the fact that the Commission - and now some member states - are making absolute dicks of themselves. My guess is that it is for domestic consumption. Politicians and bureaucrats who have buggered up monumentally are bouncing any number of dead cats in the hope one gets noticed. The fact is that any EU member state could have done what the UK did. None of them chose to do so. The national governments of each country own that decision and they clearly do not want to be held to account for it. The UK has done nothing wrong. In fact, for once it has actually done the right thing. And that is the problem across the Channel.
BiB - That's where remainers are right now. I wonder if any politicians will brave enough to suggest the solution to this is less Europe.
Some of us "remainers" play the long game. Several things can be true at once:
1. There's no doubt that the EU have made a complete mess of their vaccine strategy, and seem to keep digging once they are in a hole. Not much disagreement here on that, just different levels of excitability.
2. The most likely outcome is that this whole episode, which has excited so many on here, will blow over in due course and global vaccinations will continue apace. Helpfully, thus far the UK government has done well not to inflame tensions; I hope that continues.
3. Nobody I know is campaigning for, or expects, the UK to rejoin the EU in the short or medium term.
4. The vaccine shambles doesn't really tell us much about Brexit. Brexit may be a success, it may be a failure; most probably somewhere in between. But we only properly left the EU a month ago, so I don't believe anybody can be sure about how things will pan out yet. I'll give it three years before I can make a judgement.
It is not so much that but the damage they have done to themselves, and the effect it will have going forward on pharmaceutical and other inward investment into the EU
The EU is a big enough market for it always to attract inward investment. But there is no getting round the fact that the Commission - and now some member states - are making absolute dicks of themselves. My guess is that it is for domestic consumption. Politicians and bureaucrats who have buggered up monumentally are bouncing any number of dead cats in the hope one gets noticed. The fact is that any EU member state could have done what the UK did. None of them chose to do so. The national governments of each country own that decision and they clearly do not want to be held to account for it. The UK has done nothing wrong. In fact, for once it has actually done the right thing. And that is the problem across the Channel.
Specific to pharma they have got Switzerland and the UK sitting on their doorstep, both of whom have very well developed markets and tariff/quota free export deals with the EU and other major players. Both the UK and Switzerland will benefit from this folly in the long term.
Some of us "remainers" play the long game. Several things can be true at once:
1. There's no doubt that the EU have made a complete mess of their vaccine strategy, and seem to keep digging once they are in a hole. Not much disagreement here on that, just different levels of excitability.
2. The most likely outcome is that this whole episode, which has excited so many on here, will blow over in due course and global vaccinations will continue apace. Helpfully, thus far the UK government has done well not to inflame tensions; I hope that continues.
3. Nobody I know is campaigning for, or expects, the UK to rejoin the EU in the short or medium term.
4. The vaccine shambles doesn't really tell us much about Brexit. Brexit may be a success, it may be a failure; most probably somewhere in between. But we only properly left the EU a month ago, so I don't believe anybody can be sure about how things will pan out yet. I'll give it three years before I can make a judgement.
It is not so much that but the damage they have done to themselves, and the effect it will have going forward on pharmaceutical and other inward investment into the EU
The EU is a big enough market for it always to attract inward investment. But there is no getting round the fact that the Commission - and now some member states - are making absolute dicks of themselves. My guess is that it is for domestic consumption. Politicians and bureaucrats who have buggered up monumentally are bouncing any number of dead cats in the hope one gets noticed. The fact is that any EU member state could have done what the UK did. None of them chose to do so. The national governments of each country own that decision and they clearly do not want to be held to account for it. The UK has done nothing wrong. In fact, for once it has actually done the right thing. And that is the problem across the Channel.
Unfortunately this doesn't mean that Operation Perfidious Albion won't work anyway.
In other news, I've the BBC Six O'Clock bulletin on as background noise, where they have just reported that a senior EU official has accused Boris Johnson of wanting to start a vaccine war.
On the one hand, it's all a bit Comical Ali. On the other hand, if you live in the Republic of Ireland (where Anglophobia is widespread) and you're watching your healthcare system being starved of jabs whilst people drop like flies all around you, then whose version of events are you going to buy?
Drakeford rejects Starmer's policy on teacher vaccinations saying they must follow the JCVI recommendations which, at present, do not include mass teacher vaccinations
Love the site, a fantastic resource for both diverse and educated views of all sides of arguments.
I have been addicted to the threads over the last couple of days, especially regarding the somewhat strange behaviour of 1. The EU. 2. Germany. 3 France (now joining the fray)
It was all looking rather haphazard until number 3. Why is Macron also saying AZN is shit?
Bit of a conspiracy theory, and I hope I am wrong, but what if there is about to be a real problem with infection rates, hospitalisations and death in Germany, France etc in the very near future. They may have wind of this coming (see Portugal) and are trying to mitigate the absolute shitstorm that will be coming their way. Given that it is mainly old people who shuffle off their mortal coil for this virus, how could you cover your arse for not acting sooner:
1. Try and get (steal?) as much vaccine as soon as possible, and get cracking 2. If you can’t get said vaccine, then say that it is rubbish for the aged, and hey presto! It doesn’t matter that we have massive deaths of the elderly, as even if we could have gotten the vaccine (we didn’t, because we are useless), it wouldn’t have had any beneficial effect on the elderly anyway!
As I say, I hope I am wrong.
The European Commission is co-ordinating a diversionary attack on the UK, to mask its own failings.
The Germans aren't mental (I think the 8% story a couple of days ago is most likely the product of individual idiocy rather than official conspiracy,) but they've had a lot of deaths themselves and are probably frightened of how long this is going to drag on for whilst they wait for the jab supply to free up. This is understandable, even if the measures that they're promoting could be very damaging - *IF* they were to go as far as to use them. Remember, everything so far has been sabre-rattling rhetoric and angry paper shuffling.
Macron is a dickhead.
German story has been updated to reduce AZ over 65s effectiveness from 8% to 6.3%
Some of us "remainers" play the long game. Several things can be true at once:
1. There's no doubt that the EU have made a complete mess of their vaccine strategy, and seem to keep digging once they are in a hole. Not much disagreement here on that, just different levels of excitability.
2. The most likely outcome is that this whole episode, which has excited so many on here, will blow over in due course and global vaccinations will continue apace. Helpfully, thus far the UK government has done well not to inflame tensions; I hope that continues.
3. Nobody I know is campaigning for, or expects, the UK to rejoin the EU in the short or medium term.
4. The vaccine shambles doesn't really tell us much about Brexit. Brexit may be a success, it may be a failure; most probably somewhere in between. But we only properly left the EU a month ago, so I don't believe anybody can be sure about how things will pan out yet. I'll give it three years before I can make a judgement.
It is not so much that but the damage they have done to themselves, and the effect it will have going forward on pharmaceutical and other inward investment into the EU
The EU is a big enough market for it always to attract inward investment. But there is no getting round the fact that the Commission - and now some member states - are making absolute dicks of themselves. My guess is that it is for domestic consumption. Politicians and bureaucrats who have buggered up monumentally are bouncing any number of dead cats in the hope one gets noticed. The fact is that any EU member state could have done what the UK did. None of them chose to do so. The national governments of each country own that decision and they clearly do not want to be held to account for it. The UK has done nothing wrong. In fact, for once it has actually done the right thing. And that is the problem across the Channel.
It's amazing how well the UK Govt can do when it actually resists the need to parrot the popular press.
Boris only makes a decision when the decision is forced on him.
As that hasn't occurred here yet (and won't unless and until the EU blocks a pfizer delivery) he won't say anything.
Drakeford rejects Starmer's policy on teacher vaccinations saying they must follow the JCVI recommendations which, at present, do not include mass teacher vaccinations
Drakeford rejects Starmer's policy on teacher vaccinations saying they must follow the JCVI recommendations which, at present, do not include mass teacher vaccinations
Drakeford rejects Starmer's policy on teacher vaccinations saying they must follow the JCVI recommendations which, at present, do not include mass teacher vaccinations
He actually seems to be making some good calls recently
Some of us "remainers" play the long game. Several things can be true at once:
1. There's no doubt that the EU have made a complete mess of their vaccine strategy, and seem to keep digging once they are in a hole. Not much disagreement here on that, just different levels of excitability.
2. The most likely outcome is that this whole episode, which has excited so many on here, will blow over in due course and global vaccinations will continue apace. Helpfully, thus far the UK government has done well not to inflame tensions; I hope that continues.
3. Nobody I know is campaigning for, or expects, the UK to rejoin the EU in the short or medium term.
4. The vaccine shambles doesn't really tell us much about Brexit. Brexit may be a success, it may be a failure; most probably somewhere in between. But we only properly left the EU a month ago, so I don't believe anybody can be sure about how things will pan out yet. I'll give it three years before I can make a judgement.
It is not so much that but the damage they have done to themselves, and the effect it will have going forward on pharmaceutical and other inward investment into the EU
The EU is a big enough market for it always to attract inward investment. But there is no getting round the fact that the Commission - and now some member states - are making absolute dicks of themselves. My guess is that it is for domestic consumption. Politicians and bureaucrats who have buggered up monumentally are bouncing any number of dead cats in the hope one gets noticed. The fact is that any EU member state could have done what the UK did. None of them chose to do so. The national governments of each country own that decision and they clearly do not want to be held to account for it. The UK has done nothing wrong. In fact, for once it has actually done the right thing. And that is the problem across the Channel.
Unfortunately this doesn't mean that Operation Perfidious Albion won't work anyway.
In other news, I've the BBC Six O'Clock bulletin on as background noise, where they have just reported that a senior EU official has accused Boris Johnson of wanting to start a vaccine war.
On the one hand, it's all a bit Comical Ali. On the other hand, if you live in the Republic of Ireland (where Anglophobia is widespread) and you're watching your healthcare system being starved of jabs whilst people drop like flies all around you, then whose version of events are you going to buy?
It's an absurd claim, but he makes an easy villain.
In any case, haven't they said this is between them and AZ? Why is Boris Johnson even coming up, he's not on the AZ board.
If the Scots get away with a small fraction of the care home outbreaks that England have - apparently, see TUD's post - been having, it may well be more than justified.
In that case the justified concern about deaths in care homes (though mysteriously concentrated mainly on those north of Gretna) will become somewhat muted.
I'm finding this thread boringly one sided and partisan - is there anyone out there to help Kinabalu and None of the Above - what's happened to you. These people need help! Now! We have a serious Remain shortage. Paging! Paging! They can't all have urgent vaccine appointments surely.
*Your call cannot be answered at this time. Please try later."
I've already said. This hasn't put me off ReJoining. NO WAY! Yes Ursula vdl has made a bog of this one. Yes it's up with one or two of Trump/Boris's dafter policies. But. BUT It's ONE. And I'm certain wiser heads will prevail after the weekend.
And before anyone preens themselves and say look how well UK has done; it was the pharmaceutical industry that did well. Initially anyway. Not the government.
Voice of wisdom. Much needed. Not called "Old King Cole" for nothing.
Was clear from the start they were just using the border for their own political interest. They don't give two hoots about the people there.
At least that’s clear as day. I feel sorry for Ireland - the country with the most to lose in the EU. Let’s give them some of our vaccines
Ireland isn't actually a very big country. We could probably do it.
Tbh, the alternative of a hard internal border seems mental so now I think we should extend the hand of friendship to Ireland and include them in our vaccine programme if they agree to be.
The obvious response from the UK government is to announce some sort of scheme where new big pharma production will get some sort of tax break.
Open for business....
There's relatively cheap green field land available in Northumberland and County Durham, combined with a decent knowledge base from the universities and GSK's existing presence. It would be perfect opportunity, in my opinion, for the government to offer tax incentives for new pharma to open or expand their manufacturing and research presence here in the North East. It would also be well received in the Tory's new seats.
Absolutely agree with this, we have an amazing research base, top expertise and a great skills base coming out of our universities.
An industrial strategy on this would be very welcome.
HMG budget in March/April should be a total EU ratfuck. Deregulate and troll them where it hurts the most.
Was clear from the start they were just using the border for their own political interest. They don't give two hoots about the people there.
At least that’s clear as day. I feel sorry for Ireland - the country with the most to lose in the EU. Let’s give them some of our vaccines
Ireland isn't actually a very big country. We could probably do it.
Tbh, the alternative of a hard internal border seems mental so now I think we should extend the hand of friendship to Ireland and include them in our vaccine programme if they agree to be.
I think that's fair - the EU are just using them as disposable pawns
Some of us "remainers" play the long game. Several things can be true at once:
1. There's no doubt that the EU have made a complete mess of their vaccine strategy, and seem to keep digging once they are in a hole. Not much disagreement here on that, just different levels of excitability.
2. The most likely outcome is that this whole episode, which has excited so many on here, will blow over in due course and global vaccinations will continue apace. Helpfully, thus far the UK government has done well not to inflame tensions; I hope that continues.
3. Nobody I know is campaigning for, or expects, the UK to rejoin the EU in the short or medium term.
4. The vaccine shambles doesn't really tell us much about Brexit. Brexit may be a success, it may be a failure; most probably somewhere in between. But we only properly left the EU a month ago, so I don't believe anybody can be sure about how things will pan out yet. I'll give it three years before I can make a judgement.
It is not so much that but the damage they have done to themselves, and the effect it will have going forward on pharmaceutical and other inward investment into the EU
The EU is a big enough market for it always to attract inward investment. But there is no getting round the fact that the Commission - and now some member states - are making absolute dicks of themselves. My guess is that it is for domestic consumption. Politicians and bureaucrats who have buggered up monumentally are bouncing any number of dead cats in the hope one gets noticed. The fact is that any EU member state could have done what the UK did. None of them chose to do so. The national governments of each country own that decision and they clearly do not want to be held to account for it. The UK has done nothing wrong. In fact, for once it has actually done the right thing. And that is the problem across the Channel.
Unfortunately this doesn't mean that Operation Perfidious Albion won't work anyway.
In other news, I've the BBC Six O'Clock bulletin on as background noise, where they have just reported that a senior EU official has accused Boris Johnson of wanting to start a vaccine war.
On the one hand, it's all a bit Comical Ali. On the other hand, if you live in the Republic of Ireland (where Anglophobia is widespread) and you're watching your healthcare system being starved of jabs whilst people drop like flies all around you, then whose version of events are you going to buy?
It's an absurd claim, but he makes an easy villain.
In any case, haven't they said this is between them and AZ? Why is Boris Johnson even coming up, he's not on the AZ board.
The plants that work properly are in the UK. AZ has been using contractual obligations to the British Government to cover its arse on supply. The Commission has been caught with its kecks down, and is incandescent. The UK makes a convenient scapegoat.
As I said earlier, there is a reason why the UK is the only country in Europe West of Kaliningrad to be excluded from the exemption list for the proposed import control regulations. They hate us.
The obvious response from the UK government is to announce some sort of scheme where new big pharma production will get some sort of tax break.
Open for business....
There's relatively cheap green field land available in Northumberland and County Durham, combined with a decent knowledge base from the universities and GSK's existing presence. It would be perfect opportunity, in my opinion, for the government to offer tax incentives for new pharma to open or expand their manufacturing and research presence here in the North East. It would also be well received in the Tory's new seats.
Absolutely agree with this, we have an amazing research base, top expertise and a great skills base coming out of our universities.
An industrial strategy on this would be very welcome.
HMG budget in March/April should be a total EU ratfuck. Deregulate and troll them where it hurts the most.
Revenge is a dish best served cold.
Yup, fuck the idea of alignment. Let's get into the CPTPP and start talking to the US about consolidation of NYLon as the only real places to do business.
So how do we increase vacc. supply so there is genuinely more now (or soon) rather than arguing over the same pie?
One possibility I can spot is for Sanofi to abandon their vaccine attempt (which I assume they are keeping manufacturing capacity aside for) and turn their manufacturing over to one of the other vaccines - Valneva looks the likeliest, as the French will never agree to AZN, and Pfizer has big issues concerning usability.
Sanofi have already agreed to produce the Pfizer jab under license I believe.
There's actually a lot of this going on right now, and this is another reason to get increasingly comfortable about vaccine supply going forward.
So: Bayer has already started manufacturing on behalf of CureVac, and both Novartis and Sanofi will be making the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. The Serum Institute of India is making both the AZN and Novavax vaccines.
I haven't yet seen any announcements from other people producing Moderna. But I presume they're in negotiations with people.
Maybe - but I suspect that will be quite difficult. Moderna has what is for them seriously valuable IP in terms of formulating the mRNA in lipid nanoparticles for delivery, and some of that is likely to be commercial secrets rather than patentable processes. Getting them to share might take some effort.
Is it done very differently to CureVac and Pfizer?
I posted a link a few days back from someone who had listed the various components listed for the respective vaccines, and there were significant differences between Pfizer and Moderna. The details of how it's actually manufactured are obviously not public, but the characteristics of the lipid blob which encapsulates the active mRNA are important both for the stability of the molecule (which otherwise would degrade very rapidly), and getting it into cells once injected, so that it can do its stuff.
Given they've worked on this for a decade or more, I think we can guess that it is important and commercially very valuable.
The heart of Novavax's technology is not the S protein fragment used (it's a protein vaccine), but the nanoparticle used as an adjuvant (Matrix-M is their trademarked name for it) which is based on saponin, a glycoside extracted from bark of the Soapbark Tree (Quillaja saponaria Molina), grown at certain latitudes in Chile.
The EU needs to calm down and stop. Now. Never mind the relationship with us, if they start the new Biden era by preventing him hitting his vaccine target, even if unintentionally, it will have an impact.
Was clear from the start they were just using the border for their own political interest. They don't give two hoots about the people there.
At least that’s clear as day. I feel sorry for Ireland - the country with the most to lose in the EU. Let’s give them some of our vaccines
Ireland isn't actually a very big country. We could probably do it.
6.5 million people - we've got enough on order...
And how many over 70s?
Can't be more than 1m, that's a small number.
Not to the EU vaccination procurement team......
Tbh, we should give them 2m AZ doses over the next few weeks so they can fully jab their over 70s. It's a small sacrifice for us and it prevents any kind of risk of border checks.
UK PM - "Everyone stop. Find a corner, stand in it for 1 minute per year of your age. Think about what you have done. Then we all shake hands, and say sorry. And not do it again."
Remember the Internal market bill...that clauses about if the EU act like twats....and all the press said its illegal and besides the EU would never do things like that.
What's to stop Pfizer shipping vaccine to some random country and then onwards to the UK? Perhaps we could up our order and donate the difference to whichever country acts as go between.
Was clear from the start they were just using the border for their own political interest. They don't give two hoots about the people there.
At least that’s clear as day. I feel sorry for Ireland - the country with the most to lose in the EU. Let’s give them some of our vaccines
Ireland isn't actually a very big country. We could probably do it.
6.5 million people - we've got enough on order...
And how many over 70s?
Can't be more than 1m, that's a small number.
Not to the EU vaccination procurement team......
Tbh, we should give them 2m AZ doses over the next few weeks so they can fully jab their over 70s. It's a small sacrifice for us and it prevents any kind of risk of border checks.
We can only do this if we have this capacity sitting idle because of a difference between jabbing capacity and vaccine stock. If we do - yep. If it's 2m British taxpayers going without, no. It cannot be - much as this would be a great gesture, the first duty of our Government must be to protect British lives.
It is an apt metaphor. Whether you like or dislike the EU they usually maintain their cool or at least appear calculating. This has been flailing, and resorting to the tactics of those they claim to be against.
Love the site, a fantastic resource for both diverse and educated views of all sides of arguments.
I have been addicted to the threads over the last couple of days, especially regarding the somewhat strange behaviour of 1. The EU. 2. Germany. 3 France (now joining the fray)
It was all looking rather haphazard until number 3. Why is Macron also saying AZN is shit?
Bit of a conspiracy theory, and I hope I am wrong, but what if there is about to be a real problem with infection rates, hospitalisations and death in Germany, France etc in the very near future. They may have wind of this coming (see Portugal) and are trying to mitigate the absolute shitstorm that will be coming their way. Given that it is mainly old people who shuffle off their mortal coil for this virus, how could you cover your arse for not acting sooner:
1. Try and get (steal?) as much vaccine as soon as possible, and get cracking 2. If you can’t get said vaccine, then say that it is rubbish for the aged, and hey presto! It doesn’t matter that we have massive deaths of the elderly, as even if we could have gotten the vaccine (we didn’t, because we are useless), it wouldn’t have had any beneficial effect on the elderly anyway!
As I say, I hope I am wrong.
Scarily plausible. I am searching for, and failing to find, any other explanation for Macron's truly bizarre, idiotically dangerous remarks.
It's possibly worse, in its destructive foolishness, than any one thing Trump ever sad.
The obvious response from the UK government is to announce some sort of scheme where new big pharma production will get some sort of tax break.
Open for business....
There's relatively cheap green field land available in Northumberland and County Durham, combined with a decent knowledge base from the universities and GSK's existing presence. It would be perfect opportunity, in my opinion, for the government to offer tax incentives for new pharma to open or expand their manufacturing and research presence here in the North East. It would also be well received in the Tory's new seats.
Absolutely agree with this, we have an amazing research base, top expertise and a great skills base coming out of our universities.
An industrial strategy on this would be very welcome.
HMG budget in March/April should be a total EU ratfuck. Deregulate and troll them where it hurts the most.
Revenge is a dish best served cold.
Ooo er. It's going all Scarface on here. I think I should drift gently into my weekend. Watch the blood pressure chaps. We don't want to lose anybody.
Was clear from the start they were just using the border for their own political interest. They don't give two hoots about the people there.
At least that’s clear as day. I feel sorry for Ireland - the country with the most to lose in the EU. Let’s give them some of our vaccines
Ireland isn't actually a very big country. We could probably do it.
6.5 million people - we've got enough on order...
And how many over 70s?
Can't be more than 1m, that's a small number.
Not to the EU vaccination procurement team......
Tbh, we should give them 2m AZ doses over the next few weeks so they can fully jab their over 70s. It's a small sacrifice for us and it prevents any kind of risk of border checks.
We will give them to them (in UK Aid boxes) when we're good and ready, and not before.
They can't be seen to have won anything from this whatsoever.
BBC London news reporting that some boroughs are only at 40% in terms of carers agreeing to have the vaccine.
The government needs to act on this. We really can't have front line healthcare workers not being vaccinated, especially ones that deal with the most vulnerable every day.
The obvious response from the UK government is to announce some sort of scheme where new big pharma production will get some sort of tax break.
Open for business....
There's relatively cheap green field land available in Northumberland and County Durham, combined with a decent knowledge base from the universities and GSK's existing presence. It would be perfect opportunity, in my opinion, for the government to offer tax incentives for new pharma to open or expand their manufacturing and research presence here in the North East. It would also be well received in the Tory's new seats.
Absolutely agree with this, we have an amazing research base, top expertise and a great skills base coming out of our universities.
An industrial strategy on this would be very welcome.
HMG budget in March/April should be a total EU ratfuck. Deregulate and troll them where it hurts the most.
Revenge is a dish best served cold.
Yup, fuck the idea of alignment. Let's get into the CPTPP and start talking to the US about consolidation of NYLon as the only real places to do business.
Or start loudly making overtures to Ireland/Denmark/Sweden about enlarging the CTA and the potential for a Free Trade Area across the North Sea if they ever wanted to think about leaving the EU...
BBC London news reporting that some boroughs are only at 40% in terms of carers agreeing to have the vaccine.
Ship them off to France.
The problem is, they have safety in numbers. If it was the odd person, you could sack them. You can't sack 40% (okay, it might not be quite that many) of your staff.
Was clear from the start they were just using the border for their own political interest. They don't give two hoots about the people there.
At least that’s clear as day. I feel sorry for Ireland - the country with the most to lose in the EU. Let’s give them some of our vaccines
Ireland isn't actually a very big country. We could probably do it.
6.5 million people - we've got enough on order...
And how many over 70s?
Can't be more than 1m, that's a small number.
Not to the EU vaccination procurement team......
Tbh, we should give them 2m AZ doses over the next few weeks so they can fully jab their over 70s. It's a small sacrifice for us and it prevents any kind of risk of border checks.
We will give them to them (in UK Aid boxes) when we're good and ready, and not before.
They can't be seen to have won anything from this whatsoever.
Giving 1.4m doses to the Republic isn't a win for anyone other than common sense to prevent a hard border on the island. The idea just seems mental to me because there will have to be a border checking to see if vaccine doses are being taken into NI.
Comments
I truly, truly wish it won't come to that and this is still just posturing taken to an 11/10 position. I'm still holding on to that hope that they won't make this stupid move to block vaccine supplies, but it looks more and more likely to happen every day.
Which means I do wonder if he is correct here and the EU may have lost all sense of commonsense - now that they need 1 billion vaccines and won't have enough for probably a year.
I thought the UK were the ones risking this?
The EU said they never would .....
Someone pointed out to me that he is errr, a tad prone to excitement
That strikes me as a complete disaster idea.
In other news, I've the BBC Six O'Clock bulletin on as background noise, where they have just reported that a senior EU official has accused Boris Johnson of wanting to start a vaccine war.
On the one hand, it's all a bit Comical Ali. On the other hand, if you live in the Republic of Ireland (where Anglophobia is widespread) and you're watching your healthcare system being starved of jabs whilst people drop like flies all around you, then whose version of events are you going to buy?
Drakeford rejects Starmer's policy on teacher vaccinations saying they must follow the JCVI recommendations which, at present, do not include mass teacher vaccinations
As that hasn't occurred here yet (and won't unless and until the EU blocks a pfizer delivery) he won't say anything.
https://twitter.com/cjayanetti/status/1355217774243700737
In any case, haven't they said this is between them and AZ? Why is Boris Johnson even coming up, he's not on the AZ board.
Slight absence of world beatingness in this area.
'Target date for care home vaccinations missed'
https://tinyurl.com/y8c24zcc
Ok - own up, which of you nats was it
Revenge is a dish best served cold.
That would seriously piss off the Germans/French.
Edit: beaten to it by @Razedabode !
As I said earlier, there is a reason why the UK is the only country in Europe West of Kaliningrad to be excluded from the exemption list for the proposed import control regulations. They hate us.
Scroll down the page a bit for info: https://www.novavax.com/our-unique-technology#matrix-m-adjuvant-technology
https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1355220147301195778?s=20
https://twitter.com/adamboultonSKY/status/1355220026052276226?s=20
Just need Ian Dunt to condemn the EU to make it surreal
And of course Nicola
UK PM - "Everyone stop. Find a corner, stand in it for 1 minute per year of your age. Think about what you have done. Then we all shake hands, and say sorry. And not do it again."
It's possibly worse, in its destructive foolishness, than any one thing Trump ever sad.
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1355114907046457345?s=20
I think I should drift gently into my weekend.
Watch the blood pressure chaps. We don't want to lose anybody.
It has even converted Scott to post anti EU tweets
They can't be seen to have won anything from this whatsoever.
He must have insulted every Leaver on pb.com many, many times with his ridiculous assertions.
Meeks seems to be maintaining a "dignified silence" on Twitter. Or at least a silence.
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1355223810862100481