Given the Common Travel Area and the cross-border traffic in Ireland, there's actually quite a strong self-interest case for the UK to help the Republic with vaccines once we get supply ramped up a bit more,
The number of times I heard the word solidarity today suggests that won't go down all that well in Brussels. They'll send their enforcers round to take 26/27 of whatever the UK gives.
No problem, we can offer to jab people in NI. We'll have the centres all set up, after all.
Indeed, it's not a big place.
And they can pick up the cheap booze'n'fags whilst they're there. It's a Win-Win.
Edit: In fact, come to think of it, it could be self-financing. A few quid for the jab, recouped in duty and VAT on the booze'n'fags.
Was clear from the start they were just using the border for their own political interest. They don't give two hoots about the people there.
At least that’s clear as day. I feel sorry for Ireland - the country with the most to lose in the EU. Let’s give them some of our vaccines
Ireland isn't actually a very big country. We could probably do it.
6.5 million people - we've got enough on order...
And how many over 70s?
Can't be more than 1m, that's a small number.
Not to the EU vaccination procurement team......
Tbh, we should give them 2m AZ doses over the next few weeks so they can fully jab their over 70s. It's a small sacrifice for us and it prevents any kind of risk of border checks.
We will give them to them (in UK Aid boxes) when we're good and ready, and not before.
They can't be seen to have won anything from this whatsoever.
Giving 1.4m doses to the Republic isn't a win for anyone other than common sense to prevent a hard border on the island. The idea just seems mental to me because there will have to be a border checking to see if vaccine doses are being taken into NI.
You voted for the insane arrangement....
There is only one party being insane and that is the EU
Hold on a minute, does that mean that there will be EU checks on the island of Ireland to ensure no vaccines are being shipped to NI?
That strikes me as a complete disaster idea.
If they are seriously invoking article 16, that means that they absolutely are intending to stop exports to the UK at all costs. Otherwise, why do it? Ireland doesn't make anything.
And having a US company that won't be able to send any of its products back to the US??
Have they thought this through?
At the moment i think the EU are just saying that this is about controls - recording when shipments leave the EU. They say they want to know what's leaving. They haven't actually banned exports yet i think.
If is about recording, why not just get Pfizer to do it? Why go to the extreme measure of invoking article 16?
Which also makes it look like this is specifically targetting the UK (which it is, obvs)
I'm not disagreeing. Just saying that at the moment the groundwork is being laid as a threat. They could be bluffing.
I suspect you are right that they will, in the end, be bluffing. Who thought they would go this far though?
They've thrown away all sorts of good will for no gain.
You're playing a game of chess when your opponent ostentatiously takes out a revolver and starts putting bullets in the chamber. Obviously it doesn't affect the position on the board.
And taken a massive dump on table for good measure.
Lol. I've actually been an arbiter at a chess congress and seen boards thrown over but fortunately no guns as yet.
That from Adam Boulton is astonishing considering how pro EU he is
Just need Ian Dunt to condemn the EU to make it surreal
And of course Nicola
It has to be Meeks for me.
He must have insulted every Leaver on pb.com many, many times with his ridiculous assertions.
Meeks seems to be maintaining a "dignified silence" on Twitter. Or at least a silence.
I don't think any of this will or should change anyone's mind on brexit (and I expect ongoing polling to bear that out). This is about some hilariously inept personalities and about aspects of the EU from which we were always semi-detached anyway. Had there been no brexit I would have counted it a catastrophic failure on the part of a UK PM not to have kept us out of the joint scheme anyway, and I think under many Conservative governments that would have happened.
Has there ever in history been an international crisis of this magnitude which has been so completely and utterly hilarious? I realise and regret that it will cost lives, but most international crises do that one way or another.
Fashoda?
I'm a committed remainer, but it might be the best time to sail a couple of Aircraft Carriers 12 miles off the coast of Europe.
Good luck with that the way the PoW needs a new battery or soldered connection or whatever makes the propellers go round.
AIUI, all Kitchener did with Marchand was be polite and firm and stuff him full of whisky, which the latter must have enjoyed after walking across the Sahara the long way round. But K. did have a few gunboats on the Nile.
Isn't one aircraft carrier still to go operational and the other laid up for repairs? Still, since we seem to be in the age of bluster and empty threats...
Don't worry, just open it in Acrobat and you can read the entire thing.
Yes, I saw that too. The EU is entering some kind of psychosis.
I think Ursula von der Leyen is badly out of her depth. People laughed about Juncker but he was a much more serious politician in comparison.
Wasn't she an absolutely terrible German defence minister?
This, again, is one of the reasons for Brexit: being vindicated.
It's the useless, mad, and/or corrupt politicians that get kicked upstairs to Brussels, and into positions of serious power. Because it suits the national governments to have stupid, weak people they think they can manipulate in Brussels.
But the Commission and EU has now accrued so much sovereign power this process has become a dangerous folly.
So a bunch of people are saying as how this is it for remain, etc. The thing is that there were always two, not entirely compatible, reasons to go with remain.
One, the Culturally European one, about how Europe is the centre of civilisation, we should all be friends, we want the freedom to live and work in the EU and all live happily together. This dominated the media debate, and of the people I know who were most gutted by the vote, this was their view; which is perhaps why it did.
The other view is realpolitik. The EU is a giant power bloc. Its on our doorstep. As members, as the 2nd biggest country inside, we sat in its highest councils and had massive influence - not always decisive, but big influence. This wasn't mentioned much in the media except by a few oldies like Michael Heseltine. But it was the foundation of our foreign policy for decades.
Now we're out. And when you're a medium sized country outside a big power bloc, they don't always play nice.
Should the EU be making a vaccine trade war? No, absolutely not This is short sighted and morally repugnant. . But discredit remain? No, this is exactly why I voted remain.
China is a huge power and can push people around. Would I want the UK to be "a part of China"?
No.
Note how polling on EU membership in near-EU states like Switzerland and Norway is massively against ever joining.
"A 2018 survey of public opinion in Switzerland found only 3% considered that joining the EU was a feasible option."
They did it without even consulting with the Irish Govt!!!
The Irish border was only ever a bargaining chip for the EU, this proves it. I hate to agree with Gove but he was right that the EU wouldn't hesitate to use it against us in the future.
Remember the Internal market bill...that clauses about if the EU act like twats....and all the press said its illegal and besides the EU would never do things like that.
Except, ours was a negotiating ploy in a Bill (later withdrawn when it had served its purpose).
Vaccines are slow to arrive, and politicians and journalists and the people are livid.
This has reached the European Commission which has gone into utter panic mode.
That the UK seems to be doing well only exacerbates this.
Only now do they realise that - in a desire to save a few Euros - they put themselves behind us in the queue.
The people are revolting; it's a gift to populists across the EU, and the Commission (belatedly) see it as an existential threat.
How do they make their people happier? Well, they provide them with vaccines.
How do they get them vaccines? Well, they tell those that manufacture inside the EU that they must satisfy EU contracts first.
That will - I hate to say it - be a vote winner in Berlin, Paris and Warsaw. Not, admittedly as big a winner as having done it properly. But voters don't care about contracts, they care about vaccines.
But there is also some residual understanding that this will have long term negative consequences for the EU, so they've decided to "mix it up", and are leaving actual decisions up to individual countries.
The consequence of which is that the EU may end up with exactly no additional vaccines, but a very pissed off ally, and reduced pharma investment in the EU.
EU: 'Your' vaccine doesn't work very well ...we want your vaccine, lots of it and we want it to be taken of other supply chains. Like a fucking addict they are.
I cannot emphasise how much the EU pinned on AZ, whether through parsimony or practicality but they did, something that was known back in November/December
Whilst all this talk may result in the EU cornering supply of Pfizer and I'd guess the UK may have to consider the possibility that its off the table soon, it may be not massively material on the UK by the time they get round to it.
AZ has more production ramp in Europe and all that is all there is to it, the EU know this. They also know that delivering the mass vaccination via the Pfizer & Moderna options now approved are logistically difficult.
They also I suspect, but may be we will never see the detail, failed to understand how the pre book concept works. Pre booking a quantity is not the same as authorising a producer to have the raw ingredients ready which I suspect is where the UK got smart. Raw active ingredient supply is used into production fairly quickly due to concern that if it is sitting in storage for a long time it may lose efficacy. Because this stuff is very new the pharma companies are taking no risks.
Did the EU actually say in advance of approval 'right we'll probably go with this please get X amount ready' and if we don't well here is your payoff? The impression I have is the UK did commit not merely to buy but also agree to pre production actions so they could get things going.
Regarding our wee friends down south in Ireland, I could see some share happening. Politically it would cause less kickback in the UK say if we shared with Germany. Ireland have been very quiet in this shouting match and taking up such an offer has its upside but also some calculations of its own vis a vis the EU. I can tell you though that GP vaccine programmes here in NI (all using AZ) are not getting requested quantities. Whether this is tight supply management upstream or actual shortages I don't know
Vaccines are slow to arrive, and politicians and journalists and the people are livid.
This has reached the European Commission which has gone into utter panic mode.
That the UK seems to be doing well only exacerbates this.
Only now do they realise that - in a desire to save a few Euros - they put themselves behind us in the queue.
The people are revolting; it's a gift to populists across the EU, and the Commission (belatedly) see it as an existential threat.
How do they make their people happier? Well, they provide them with vaccines.
How do they get them vaccines? Well, they tell those that manufacture inside the EU that they must satisfy EU contracts first.
That will - I hate to say it - be a vote winner in Berlin, Paris and Warsaw. Not, admittedly as big a winner as having done it properly. But voters don't care about contracts, they care about vaccines.
But there is also some residual understanding that this will have long term negative consequences for the EU, so they've decided to "mix it up", and are leaving actual decisions up to individual countries.
The consequence of which is that the EU may end up with exactly no additional vaccines, but a very pissed off ally, and reduced pharma investment in the EU.
That from Adam Boulton is astonishing considering how pro EU he is
Just need Ian Dunt to condemn the EU to make it surreal
And of course Nicola
It has to be Meeks for me.
He must have insulted every Leaver on pb.com many, many times with his ridiculous assertions.
Meeks seems to be maintaining a "dignified silence" on Twitter. Or at least a silence.
I don't think any of this will or should change anyone's mind on brexit (and I expect ongoing polling to bear that out). This is about some hilariously inept personalities and about aspects of the EU from which we were always semi-detached anyway. Had there been no brexit I would have counted it a catastrophic failure on the part of a UK PM not to have kept us out of the joint scheme anyway, and I think under many Conservative governments that would have happened.
Has there ever in history been an international crisis of this magnitude which has been so completely and utterly hilarious? I realise and regret that it will cost lives, but most international crises do that one way or another.
Actually, it is a serious mistake to play politics with global health.
But there is no reason why we can't kid the living daylights out of Remainiacs like Meeks or SirNorfolkPassmore or FeersumEnjineers. They repeatedly told us the EU can do what it likes because the EU was big and powerful and so it can kick anyone around.
Basically, their argument -- in its entirety -- was the EU has a big cock.
Where are they now? I picture them in some Remainer stronghold in North London. Sir Norfolk is reminiscing.
Sir NorfolkP : "It is gigantic. The length is 3000 feet, circumference near the head is 50 feet. "
FeersumE (remembering his GCSE science): "I think you mean the length is 1000 metres in SI units. But, it is not just the girth, not just the weight. We are talking about an enormous seminal discharge. I measured it with my burette and conical flask. It is 2000 000 litres."
Meeks (pinkening slightly): "And the glistening tip ..."
FeersumE: "And there is the huge flight path of the discharge to consider as well. When full bung, it can deliver seminal fluid from Brussels to the Azores, assuming favourable humidity and wind conditions.
Meeks (sobbing): "Those bastard xenophobes who voted Leave. I hate them. We have given all that up. I have a scaled copy made out of flint -- created by the foremost knapper of our generation -- with the names of 27 countries etched into the glans. How I wish the name of the UK was there too, so it too can be royally fucked by the EU."
Sir Norfolk (very, very softly): "Still, there is always the LibDems ... they are arguing for rejoin"
It is very quiet.
All three are silent, alone with the semi-fascistic dreams of power and size. The still believed the EU really can do anything. Because it was big.
Vaccines are slow to arrive, and politicians and journalists and the people are livid.
This has reached the European Commission which has gone into utter panic mode.
That the UK seems to be doing well only exacerbates this.
Only now do they realise that - in a desire to save a few Euros - they put themselves behind us in the queue.
The people are revolting; it's a gift to populists across the EU, and the Commission (belatedly) see it as an existential threat.
How do they make their people happier? Well, they provide them with vaccines.
How do they get them vaccines? Well, they tell those that manufacture inside the EU that they must satisfy EU contracts first.
That will - I hate to say it - be a vote winner in Berlin, Paris and Warsaw. Not, admittedly as big a winner as having done it properly. But voters don't care about contracts, they care about vaccines.
But there is also some residual understanding that this will have long term negative consequences for the EU, so they've decided to "mix it up", and are leaving actual decisions up to individual countries.
The consequence of which is that the EU may end up with exactly no additional vaccines, but a very pissed off ally, and reduced pharma investment in the EU.
Really, a triple cluster fuck.
And Le Pen as president of France.
Not sure this recent behaviour would play into that would it? I mean, Macron has upped the anti, UK bashing wise, presumably as it is popular and lessen the chance of Le Pen winning.
Vaccines are slow to arrive, and politicians and journalists and the people are livid.
This has reached the European Commission which has gone into utter panic mode.
That the UK seems to be doing well only exacerbates this.
Only now do they realise that - in a desire to save a few Euros - they put themselves behind us in the queue.
The people are revolting; it's a gift to populists across the EU, and the Commission (belatedly) see it as an existential threat.
How do they make their people happier? Well, they provide them with vaccines.
How do they get them vaccines? Well, they tell those that manufacture inside the EU that they must satisfy EU contracts first.
That will - I hate to say it - be a vote winner in Berlin, Paris and Warsaw. Not, admittedly as big a winner as having done it properly. But voters don't care about contracts, they care about vaccines.
But there is also some residual understanding that this will have long term negative consequences for the EU, so they've decided to "mix it up", and are leaving actual decisions up to individual countries.
The consequence of which is that the EU may end up with exactly no additional vaccines, but a very pissed off ally, and reduced pharma investment in the EU.
Really, a triple cluster fuck.
Yep, but of course it's only a very temporary vote winner. If, as seems near-certain, the UK continues to outpace the EU27 by a large margin, it'll become a vote-loser.
Anyone else starting to feel like how the Greeks felt according to Varoufakis?
Varoufakis - a smart guy - was one of the few senior EU politicians who said he understood Brexit and thought it justifiable, even though he preferred Britain to Reman
His book on the eurocrisis is rather good, and revealing
Vaccines are slow to arrive, and politicians and journalists and the people are livid.
This has reached the European Commission which has gone into utter panic mode.
That the UK seems to be doing well only exacerbates this.
Only now do they realise that - in a desire to save a few Euros - they put themselves behind us in the queue.
The people are revolting; it's a gift to populists across the EU, and the Commission (belatedly) see it as an existential threat.
How do they make their people happier? Well, they provide them with vaccines.
How do they get them vaccines? Well, they tell those that manufacture inside the EU that they must satisfy EU contracts first.
That will - I hate to say it - be a vote winner in Berlin, Paris and Warsaw. Not, admittedly as big a winner as having done it properly. But voters don't care about contracts, they care about vaccines.
But there is also some residual understanding that this will have long term negative consequences for the EU, so they've decided to "mix it up", and are leaving actual decisions up to individual countries.
The consequence of which is that the EU may end up with exactly no additional vaccines, but a very pissed off ally, and reduced pharma investment in the EU.
Really, a triple cluster fuck.
Why the good news from California? Vaccinating the fck out of everyone or what?
Anyone else starting to feel like how the Greeks felt according to Varoufakis?
This is rather different: Greece owed lots of money, they had to borrow money, and the lenders (let's not forget that the IMF was also front-and-centre, but that's kinda forgotten because it doesn't fit the narrative) got to choose the terms.
There was no circumstance where Greece didn't get fucked, whether or not they were in the EU, because they made the cardinal error that many governments have over time of borrowing excessively in a currency they couldn't print.
Now, you can make the excellent case that Greece should have chosen to leave the Eurozone.
Hang on, did the Commission not at least run it by him first?
That is utterly stupefying. I presume they didn't tell Irish-American president Biden either, that the EU is gonna build a wall around Ulster, after all
Vaccines are slow to arrive, and politicians and journalists and the people are livid.
This has reached the European Commission which has gone into utter panic mode.
That the UK seems to be doing well only exacerbates this.
Only now do they realise that - in a desire to save a few Euros - they put themselves behind us in the queue.
The people are revolting; it's a gift to populists across the EU, and the Commission (belatedly) see it as an existential threat.
How do they make their people happier? Well, they provide them with vaccines.
How do they get them vaccines? Well, they tell those that manufacture inside the EU that they must satisfy EU contracts first.
That will - I hate to say it - be a vote winner in Berlin, Paris and Warsaw. Not, admittedly as big a winner as having done it properly. But voters don't care about contracts, they care about vaccines.
But there is also some residual understanding that this will have long term negative consequences for the EU, so they've decided to "mix it up", and are leaving actual decisions up to individual countries.
The consequence of which is that the EU may end up with exactly no additional vaccines, but a very pissed off ally, and reduced pharma investment in the EU.
Really, a triple cluster fuck.
Yes, it really does seem like a worst of all worlds sort of policy. If they do seize vaccines due for export to countries not covered by exemptions it will be an actual disaster.
The mechanism itself will hit pharma investment, the spat with AZ as well. Who wants to deal with that kind of jurisdiction.
Vaccines are slow to arrive, and politicians and journalists and the people are livid.
This has reached the European Commission which has gone into utter panic mode.
That the UK seems to be doing well only exacerbates this.
Only now do they realise that - in a desire to save a few Euros - they put themselves behind us in the queue.
The people are revolting; it's a gift to populists across the EU, and the Commission (belatedly) see it as an existential threat.
How do they make their people happier? Well, they provide them with vaccines.
How do they get them vaccines? Well, they tell those that manufacture inside the EU that they must satisfy EU contracts first.
That will - I hate to say it - be a vote winner in Berlin, Paris and Warsaw. Not, admittedly as big a winner as having done it properly. But voters don't care about contracts, they care about vaccines.
But there is also some residual understanding that this will have long term negative consequences for the EU, so they've decided to "mix it up", and are leaving actual decisions up to individual countries.
The consequence of which is that the EU may end up with exactly no additional vaccines, but a very pissed off ally, and reduced pharma investment in the EU.
Really, a triple cluster fuck.
Why the good news from California? Vaccinating the fck out of everyone or what?
Vaccines are slow to arrive, and politicians and journalists and the people are livid.
This has reached the European Commission which has gone into utter panic mode.
That the UK seems to be doing well only exacerbates this.
Only now do they realise that - in a desire to save a few Euros - they put themselves behind us in the queue.
The people are revolting; it's a gift to populists across the EU, and the Commission (belatedly) see it as an existential threat.
How do they make their people happier? Well, they provide them with vaccines.
How do they get them vaccines? Well, they tell those that manufacture inside the EU that they must satisfy EU contracts first.
That will - I hate to say it - be a vote winner in Berlin, Paris and Warsaw. Not, admittedly as big a winner as having done it properly. But voters don't care about contracts, they care about vaccines.
But there is also some residual understanding that this will have long term negative consequences for the EU, so they've decided to "mix it up", and are leaving actual decisions up to individual countries.
The consequence of which is that the EU may end up with exactly no additional vaccines, but a very pissed off ally, and reduced pharma investment in the EU.
Really, a triple cluster fuck.
And Le Pen as president of France.
With respect, I don’t think that remotely follows. She ain’t going to be swept to power on a wave of angry pro-vaxxers.
Hang on, did the Commission not at least run it by him first?
That is utterly stupefying. I presume they didn't tell Irish-American president Biden either, that the EU is gonna build a wall around Ulster, after all
“Plus, sorry Joe but we’ve decided to interfere with your flagship vaccine policy and prevent you hitting your numbers, whilst cosying up to China - you’ll still be best friends with us in the EU though right?”
That from Adam Boulton is astonishing considering how pro EU he is
Just need Ian Dunt to condemn the EU to make it surreal
And of course Nicola
It has to be Meeks for me.
He must have insulted every Leaver on pb.com many, many times with his ridiculous assertions.
Meeks seems to be maintaining a "dignified silence" on Twitter. Or at least a silence.
I don't think any of this will or should change anyone's mind on brexit (and I expect ongoing polling to bear that out). This is about some hilariously inept personalities and about aspects of the EU from which we were always semi-detached anyway. Had there been no brexit I would have counted it a catastrophic failure on the part of a UK PM not to have kept us out of the joint scheme anyway, and I think under many Conservative governments that would have happened.
Has there ever in history been an international crisis of this magnitude which has been so completely and utterly hilarious? I realise and regret that it will cost lives, but most international crises do that one way or another.
Actually, it is a serious mistake to play politics with global health.
But there is no reason why we can't kid the living daylights out of Remainiacs like Meeks or SirNorfolkPassmore or FeersumEnjineers. They repeatedly told us the EU can do what it likes because the EU was big and powerful and so it can kick anyone around.
Basically, their argument -- in its entirety -- was the EU has a big cock.
Where are they now? I picture them in some Remainer stronghold in North London. Sir Norfolk is reminiscing.
Sir NorfolkP : "It is gigantic. The length is 3000 feet, circumference near the head is 50 feet. "
FeersumE (remembering his GCSE science): "I think you mean the length is 1000 metres in SI units. But, it is not just the girth, not just the weight. We are talking about an enormous seminal discharge. I measured it with my burette and conical flask. It is 2000 000 litres."
Meeks (pinkening slightly): "And the glistening tip ..."
FeersumE: "And there is the huge flight path of the discharge to consider as well. When full bung, it can deliver seminal fluid from Brussels to the Azores, assuming favourable humidity and wind conditions.
Meeks (sobbing): "Those bastard xenophobes who voted Leave. I hate them. We have given all that up. I have a scaled copy made out of flint -- created by the foremost knapper of our generation -- with the names of 27 countries etched into the glans. How I wish the name of the UK was there too, so it too can be royally fucked by the EU."
Sir Norfolk (very, very softly): "Still, there is always the LibDems ... they are arguing for rejoin"
It is very quiet.
All three are silent, alone with the semi-fascistic dreams of power and size. The still believed the EU really can do anything. Because it was big.
Are you sure you aren't some Welsh relation of SeanT?
How is Nicola Sturgeon's love affair with the EU going then
You're quite petulant under the harmless old chuff veneer, ain't you?
How're the in-laws descended from 300 generations of fisherfolk doing with BJ's fantastic deal for fishing?
You have not answered my question
And 23 million now for the fishing industry loses, plus 100 million investment to develop UK wide fishing over the next five years is far better than being in the CFP and under the ridiculous EU, who have trashed their brand in a way that was totally unexpected
Commission President Ursula von der Leyen Seeking to Duck Responsibility
European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen is trying to get out of the firing line as anger grows over the EU's botched vaccine rollout. It's not the first time in her career that she has sought to evade responsibility.
So does this show that Macron is continuing the sequence of each French President being worse than his predecessor ?
Not sure, François Hollande set quite a high bar on that.
Nope. I'm not sure any president in the history of the Republic has ever said a thing as stupid as wot Macron did today
He's prez of a nation ravaged by a virus, desperate for vaccines to cure the problem. However he has another problem, his citizens are rabid anti-vaxxers. He needs this to change.
So... on the day the EMA approves a third vaccine, crucial to France's hopes of exiting the pandemic. he says "actually this vaccine is almost totally useless in old people, the ones who really need it", thus suggesting that the European Drug Agency is either lying or clueless when it comes to vaccines, and thus throwing a cloud of doubt over all vaccines in general.
The EU has acted like a 6 year old with ADHD today, but Macron's behaviour is so bizarre it is outwith my comprehension. I just don't understand what he hopes to gain by saying this thing, when he has SO much to lose by saying it.
Vaccines are slow to arrive, and politicians and journalists and the people are livid.
This has reached the European Commission which has gone into utter panic mode.
That the UK seems to be doing well only exacerbates this.
Only now do they realise that - in a desire to save a few Euros - they put themselves behind us in the queue.
The people are revolting; it's a gift to populists across the EU, and the Commission (belatedly) see it as an existential threat.
How do they make their people happier? Well, they provide them with vaccines.
How do they get them vaccines? Well, they tell those that manufacture inside the EU that they must satisfy EU contracts first.
That will - I hate to say it - be a vote winner in Berlin, Paris and Warsaw. Not, admittedly as big a winner as having done it properly. But voters don't care about contracts, they care about vaccines.
But there is also some residual understanding that this will have long term negative consequences for the EU, so they've decided to "mix it up", and are leaving actual decisions up to individual countries.
The consequence of which is that the EU may end up with exactly no additional vaccines, but a very pissed off ally, and reduced pharma investment in the EU.
Really, a triple cluster fuck.
And Le Pen as president of France.
With respect, I don’t think that remotely follows. She ain’t going to be swept to power on a wave of angry pro-vaxxers.
What if the French are entering their seventh lockdown next year?
So does this show that Macron is continuing the sequence of each French President being worse than his predecessor ?
Not sure, François Hollande set quite a high bar on that.
Nope. I'm not sure any president in the history of the Republic has ever said a thing as stupid as wot Macron did today
He's prez of a nation ravaged by a virus, desperate for vaccines to cure the problem. However he has another problem, his citizens are rabid anti-vaxxers. He needs this to change.
So... on the day the EMA approves a third vaccine, crucial to France's hopes of exiting the pandemic. he says "actually this vaccine is almost totally useless in old people, the ones who really need it", thus suggesting that the European Drug Agency is either lying or clueless when it comes to vaccines, and thus throwing a cloud of doubt over all vaccines in general.
The EU has acted like a 6 year old with ADHD today, but Macron's behaviour is so bizarre it is outwith my comprehension. I just don't understand what he hopes to gain by saying this thing, when he has SO much to lose by saying it.
That from Adam Boulton is astonishing considering how pro EU he is
Just need Ian Dunt to condemn the EU to make it surreal
And of course Nicola
It has to be Meeks for me.
He must have insulted every Leaver on pb.com many, many times with his ridiculous assertions.
Meeks seems to be maintaining a "dignified silence" on Twitter. Or at least a silence.
I don't think any of this will or should change anyone's mind on brexit (and I expect ongoing polling to bear that out). This is about some hilariously inept personalities and about aspects of the EU from which we were always semi-detached anyway. Had there been no brexit I would have counted it a catastrophic failure on the part of a UK PM not to have kept us out of the joint scheme anyway, and I think under many Conservative governments that would have happened.
Has there ever in history been an international crisis of this magnitude which has been so completely and utterly hilarious? I realise and regret that it will cost lives, but most international crises do that one way or another.
Actually, it is a serious mistake to play politics with global health.
But there is no reason why we can't kid the living daylights out of Remainiacs like Meeks or SirNorfolkPassmore or FeersumEnjineers. They repeatedly told us the EU can do what it likes because the EU was big and powerful and so it can kick anyone around.
Basically, their argument -- in its entirety -- was the EU has a big cock.
Where are they now? I picture them in some Remainer stronghold in North London. Sir Norfolk is reminiscing.
Sir NorfolkP : "It is gigantic. The length is 3000 feet, circumference near the head is 50 feet. "
FeersumE (remembering his GCSE science): "I think you mean the length is 1000 metres in SI units. But, it is not just the girth, not just the weight. We are talking about an enormous seminal discharge. I measured it with my burette and conical flask. It is 2000 000 litres."
Meeks (pinkening slightly): "And the glistening tip ..."
FeersumE: "And there is the huge flight path of the discharge to consider as well. When full bung, it can deliver seminal fluid from Brussels to the Azores, assuming favourable humidity and wind conditions.
Meeks (sobbing): "Those bastard xenophobes who voted Leave. I hate them. We have given all that up. I have a scaled copy made out of flint -- created by the foremost knapper of our generation -- with the names of 27 countries etched into the glans. How I wish the name of the UK was there too, so it too can be royally fucked by the EU."
Sir Norfolk (very, very softly): "Still, there is always the LibDems ... they are arguing for rejoin"
It is very quiet.
All three are silent, alone with the semi-fascistic dreams of power and size. The still believed the EU really can do anything. Because it was big.
Are you sure you aren't some Welsh relation of SeanT?
Macron - "What is that one the horizon"
Flunky - "Shit, the English are invading"
Macron - "Why do they look.... similar?"
Flunky - "Shit Shit Shit. They have sent the SeanTs... millions of them..."
Macron - "WHAT?"
Flunky - "{whispers} all of them.. armed with... flint....objects"
Vaccine Nationalism is ugly no matter if it comes from the EU or Guido readers IMO
Good job we have an infinite amount of AZ
Quite possibly yes - Pfizer has delivery issues so it's perfectly possible that the EU will say the next x million are ours regardless of who is supposed to actually receive them.
Small test for Irish Joe coming up too, he fairly condemned British attempts to undermine the GFA, will he do the same now? I think he might.
I know the likes of Farage tried to portray Biden as anti British because Biden's views on the GFA but Biden's very pro British as well, just remember his support for the UK during the Falklands.
It is possible to be pro GFA and pro British at the same time.
"Canada was expecting four million doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine by the end of March, and—despite mounting evidence that such a number probably won't be reached—the feds are sticking with it. Multiple sources across various levels of government confirmed that the true number will be closer to 3.5 million—about 500,000 short.
The situation has gotten serious enough that Pfizer has requested Health Canada approve administrators squeezing six injections out of each vial of vaccine instead of five. But Maj.-Gen. Dany Fortin insists Pfizer is still planning to fulfill its complete promise come springtime.
Meanwhile, Canada has dropped several places globally in per-capita vaccine distribution: we now rank 20th, behind Bahrain, Denmark, Germany, Israel, Italy, Malta, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Spain and the United Arab Emirates, among others. According to an analysis by The Economist, Canada won't see widespread vaccination until mid-2022."
"Canada was expecting four million doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine by the end of March, and—despite mounting evidence that such a number probably won't be reached—the feds are sticking with it. Multiple sources across various levels of government confirmed that the true number will be closer to 3.5 million—about 500,000 short.
The situation has gotten serious enough that Pfizer has requested Health Canada approve administrators squeezing six injections out of each vial of vaccine instead of five. But Maj.-Gen. Dany Fortin insists Pfizer is still planning to fulfill its complete promise come springtime.
Meanwhile, Canada has dropped several places globally in per-capita vaccine distribution: we now rank 20th, behind Bahrain, Denmark, Germany, Israel, Italy, Malta, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Spain and the United Arab Emirates, among others. According to an analysis by The Economist, Canada won't see widespread vaccination until mid-2022."
Just need the Shinners to chime in now, can't imagine they are looking to kindly at the EU treating NI as if it were a separate country though.
Of course its a problem for the Irish government. There is enough cross border co operation on health where that could have been used in some form to assist vaccine rollout but this is all France & Germany looking like pants.
They see it as competition, another threat to the European 'project'. It is competition but its no threat to the latter. We also need to see it as competition, get about 4 nil up, then we can be good sports.
Commission President Ursula von der Leyen Seeking to Duck Responsibility
European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen is trying to get out of the firing line as anger grows over the EU's botched vaccine rollout. It's not the first time in her career that she has sought to evade responsibility.
That makes her seem like the German version of Boris. She goes into a job, promises a whole bunch of grandiose sounding bullshit, fucks it all up and then let's the next person fix everything.
"Canada was expecting four million doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine by the end of March, and—despite mounting evidence that such a number probably won't be reached—the feds are sticking with it. Multiple sources across various levels of government confirmed that the true number will be closer to 3.5 million—about 500,000 short.
The situation has gotten serious enough that Pfizer has requested Health Canada approve administrators squeezing six injections out of each vial of vaccine instead of five. But Maj.-Gen. Dany Fortin insists Pfizer is still planning to fulfill its complete promise come springtime.
Meanwhile, Canada has dropped several places globally in per-capita vaccine distribution: we now rank 20th, behind Bahrain, Denmark, Germany, Israel, Italy, Malta, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Spain and the United Arab Emirates, among others. According to an analysis by The Economist, Canada won't see widespread vaccination until mid-2022."
The funny bit is that, while the EU isn't doing very well, it isn't doing that badly either. It's just that the UK has done so well that is driving them insane.
Commission President Ursula von der Leyen Seeking to Duck Responsibility
European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen is trying to get out of the firing line as anger grows over the EU's botched vaccine rollout. It's not the first time in her career that she has sought to evade responsibility.
Vaccine Nationalism is ugly no matter if it comes from the EU or Guido readers IMO
Good job we have an infinite amount of AZ
Quite possibly yes - Pfizer has delivery issues so it's perfectly possible that the EU will say the next x million are ours regardless of who is supposed to actually receive them.
Oh yeah just read The UK is scheduled to receive 3.5 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine over the next three weeks.
Commission President Ursula von der Leyen Seeking to Duck Responsibility
European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen is trying to get out of the firing line as anger grows over the EU's botched vaccine rollout. It's not the first time in her career that she has sought to evade responsibility.
That makes her seem like the German version of Boris. She goes into a job, promises a whole bunch of grandiose sounding bullshit, fucks it all up and then let's the next person fix everything.
The real test for the EU is whether heads roll at the top: if the European Parliament is able to secure some resignations from those responsible, that would be a positive step.
If, on the other hand, failure is ignored and waved away, then that bodes ill.
Vaccines are slow to arrive, and politicians and journalists and the people are livid.
This has reached the European Commission which has gone into utter panic mode.
That the UK seems to be doing well only exacerbates this.
Only now do they realise that - in a desire to save a few Euros - they put themselves behind us in the queue.
The people are revolting; it's a gift to populists across the EU, and the Commission (belatedly) see it as an existential threat.
How do they make their people happier? Well, they provide them with vaccines.
How do they get them vaccines? Well, they tell those that manufacture inside the EU that they must satisfy EU contracts first.
That will - I hate to say it - be a vote winner in Berlin, Paris and Warsaw. Not, admittedly as big a winner as having done it properly. But voters don't care about contracts, they care about vaccines.
But there is also some residual understanding that this will have long term negative consequences for the EU, so they've decided to "mix it up", and are leaving actual decisions up to individual countries.
The consequence of which is that the EU may end up with exactly no additional vaccines, but a very pissed off ally, and reduced pharma investment in the EU.
Really, a triple cluster fuck.
Yep, but of course it's only a very temporary vote winner. If, as seems near-certain, the UK continues to outpace the EU27 by a large margin, it'll become a vote-loser.
Also worth pointing out that there is still massive ramping up of vaccine supply needed. To meet the EU's needs, let alone the whole world. It is that which the EU should be concentrating on and putting serious money into, not just assuming that confiscating all existing capacity will be sufficient.
The real test for the EU is whether heads roll at the top: if the European Parliament is able to secure some resignations from those responsible, that would be a positive step.
If, on the other hand, failure is ignored and waved away, then that bodes ill.
It would completely confirm all of the undemocratic things leave voters said of the EU in 2016.
Anyone else starting to feel like how the Greeks felt according to Varoufakis?
Varoufakis - a smart guy - was one of the few senior EU politicians who said he understood Brexit and thought it justifiable, even though he preferred Britain to Reman
His book on the eurocrisis is rather good, and revealing
Hmmmm: I know several people who worked at the IMF, and their views on Varoufakis are unprintable.
The real test for the EU is whether heads roll at the top: if the European Parliament is able to secure some resignations from those responsible, that would be a positive step.
If, on the other hand, failure is ignored and waved away, then that bodes ill.
Given the likely possibility that the UK death rate at the end of all this will still be higher than most if not all EU members, and everyone's love of simplistic analysis, I suspect that alone will mean the failings of the vaccination phase will be downplayed in the halls of the Commission. Someone close by will be worse overall, therefore nothing to see here.
Anyone else starting to feel like how the Greeks felt according to Varoufakis?
Varoufakis - a smart guy - was one of the few senior EU politicians who said he understood Brexit and thought it justifiable, even though he preferred Britain to Reman
His book on the eurocrisis is rather good, and revealing
Hmmmm: I know several people who worked at the IMF, and their views on Varoufakis are unprintable.
We just need to hold nerve, if need be go a little further into war production footing. Whether it's incentivizing and helping stand up domestic Pfizer production, convert St Helens to vial production, or whichever acceleration/ conversion is needed, treat it as the blockade it is and one we are well placed to bust.
If by doing so we make our order book, and too much for our own needs, then we help out. with our vaccines on our terms, whether that is RoI, third world, even, ultimately, the EU, then fine.
For now, compete, compete hard, win.
I've never had much b time for the first world are hogging the vaccine argument - the nature and distribution of COVID demands the rich Northern Hemisphere IS where, not all, but much of the greatest need is.
And as for COVID being racist, or rather, hitting minorities harder because of n other inequalities, although there is a very strong case at domestic level, that simply cannot be scaled to a global level..
Vaccines are slow to arrive, and politicians and journalists and the people are livid.
This has reached the European Commission which has gone into utter panic mode.
That the UK seems to be doing well only exacerbates this.
Only now do they realise that - in a desire to save a few Euros - they put themselves behind us in the queue.
The people are revolting; it's a gift to populists across the EU, and the Commission (belatedly) see it as an existential threat.
How do they make their people happier? Well, they provide them with vaccines.
How do they get them vaccines? Well, they tell those that manufacture inside the EU that they must satisfy EU contracts first.
That will - I hate to say it - be a vote winner in Berlin, Paris and Warsaw. Not, admittedly as big a winner as having done it properly. But voters don't care about contracts, they care about vaccines.
But there is also some residual understanding that this will have long term negative consequences for the EU, so they've decided to "mix it up", and are leaving actual decisions up to individual countries.
The consequence of which is that the EU may end up with exactly no additional vaccines, but a very pissed off ally, and reduced pharma investment in the EU.
Really, a triple cluster fuck.
Why the good news from California? Vaccinating the fck out of everyone or what?
The same reason as almost everywhere: the Christmas surge is now behind us.
This is a disease that always comes in waves. Cases go through the roof. ICUs are filled. Ambulances can't deposit patients. People die.
And you know what, at that point, irrespective of whether there is a "lockdown", people don't go out. They stay home and watch Netflix and are scared.
Then cases drop.
People go out.
Rinse and repeat.
There is a feeling here in Kent that the clobbering that our county got from our home grown own variant has ow resulted in a precipitous drop in cases. A 1% CFR suggests that in Folkestone and Hythe some 52% of the population there has had it. That might not take you to herd immunity but there are certainly a lot more people with resistance than there would otherwise have been. I have a suspicion something similar may have happened in LA with its appalling homeless problem.
Anyone else starting to feel like how the Greeks felt according to Varoufakis?
Varoufakis - a smart guy - was one of the few senior EU politicians who said he understood Brexit and thought it justifiable, even though he preferred Britain to Reman
His book on the eurocrisis is rather good, and revealing
Hmmmm: I know several people who worked at the IMF, and their views on Varoufakis are unprintable.
Fair enough. I'm just going by his book. He has a surprisingly fine prose style.
Anyone else starting to feel like how the Greeks felt according to Varoufakis?
Varoufakis - a smart guy - was one of the few senior EU politicians who said he understood Brexit and thought it justifiable, even though he preferred Britain to Reman
His book on the eurocrisis is rather good, and revealing
Hmmmm: I know several people who worked at the IMF, and their views on Varoufakis are unprintable.
The real test for the EU is whether heads roll at the top: if the European Parliament is able to secure some resignations from those responsible, that would be a positive step.
If, on the other hand, failure is ignored and waved away, then that bodes ill.
Given the likely possibility that the UK death rate at the end of all this will still be higher than most if not all EU members, and everyone's love of simplistic analysis, I suspect that alone will mean the failings of the vaccination phase will be downplayed in the halls of the Commission. Someone close by will be worse overall, therefore nothing to see here.
We're pretty much in the same pack as Italy, France & Spain - given current Vaccine trends it's not unreasonable to predict this is a 14 month plague for us and a 20 month plague for them - would be quite surprised if that doesn't feed in to the end result.
Comments
Just glad the UK has so much vaccine production on home soil coming online.
Edit: In fact, come to think of it, it could be self-financing. A few quid for the jab, recouped in duty and VAT on the booze'n'fags.
Still, since we seem to be in the age of bluster and empty threats...
Sad state of affairs
This, again, is one of the reasons for Brexit: being vindicated.
It's the useless, mad, and/or corrupt politicians that get kicked upstairs to Brussels, and into positions of serious power. Because it suits the national governments to have stupid, weak people they think they can manipulate in Brussels.
But the Commission and EU has now accrued so much sovereign power this process has become a dangerous folly.
And it is a feature, not a bug,
The EU has passed the law.
Covid is rampaging across the continent.
Vaccines are slow to arrive, and politicians and journalists and the people are livid.
This has reached the European Commission which has gone into utter panic mode.
That the UK seems to be doing well only exacerbates this.
Only now do they realise that - in a desire to save a few Euros - they put themselves behind us in the queue.
The people are revolting; it's a gift to populists across the EU, and the Commission (belatedly) see it as an existential threat.
How do they make their people happier? Well, they provide them with vaccines.
How do they get them vaccines? Well, they tell those that manufacture inside the EU that they must satisfy EU contracts first.
That will - I hate to say it - be a vote winner in Berlin, Paris and Warsaw. Not, admittedly as big a winner as having done it properly. But voters don't care about contracts, they care about vaccines.
But there is also some residual understanding that this will have long term negative consequences for the EU, so they've decided to "mix it up", and are leaving actual decisions up to individual countries.
The consequence of which is that the EU may end up with exactly no additional vaccines, but a very pissed off ally, and reduced pharma investment in the EU.
Really, a triple cluster fuck.
I cannot emphasise how much the EU pinned on AZ, whether through parsimony or practicality but they did, something that was known back in November/December
Whilst all this talk may result in the EU cornering supply of Pfizer and I'd guess the UK may have to consider the possibility that its off the table soon, it may be not massively material on the UK by the time they get round to it.
AZ has more production ramp in Europe and all that is all there is to it, the EU know this. They also know that delivering the mass vaccination via the Pfizer & Moderna options now approved are logistically difficult.
They also I suspect, but may be we will never see the detail, failed to understand how the pre book concept works. Pre booking a quantity is not the same as authorising a producer to have the raw ingredients ready which I suspect is where the UK got smart. Raw active ingredient supply is used into production fairly quickly due to concern that if it is sitting in storage for a long time it may lose efficacy. Because this stuff is very new the pharma companies are taking no risks.
Did the EU actually say in advance of approval 'right we'll probably go with this please get X amount ready' and if we don't well here is your payoff? The impression I have is the UK did commit not merely to buy but also agree to pre production actions so they could get things going.
Regarding our wee friends down south in Ireland, I could see some share happening. Politically it would cause less kickback in the UK say if we shared with Germany. Ireland have been very quiet in this shouting match and taking up such an offer has its upside but also some calculations of its own vis a vis the EU. I can tell you though that GP vaccine programmes here in NI (all using AZ) are not getting requested quantities. Whether this is tight supply management upstream or actual shortages I don't know
But there is no reason why we can't kid the living daylights out of Remainiacs like Meeks or SirNorfolkPassmore or FeersumEnjineers. They repeatedly told us the EU can do what it likes because the EU was big and powerful and so it can kick anyone around.
Basically, their argument -- in its entirety -- was the EU has a big cock.
Where are they now? I picture them in some Remainer stronghold in North London. Sir Norfolk is reminiscing.
Sir NorfolkP : "It is gigantic. The length is 3000 feet, circumference near the head is 50 feet. "
FeersumE (remembering his GCSE science): "I think you mean the length is 1000 metres in SI units. But, it is not just the girth, not just the weight. We are talking about an enormous seminal discharge. I measured it with my burette and conical flask. It is 2000 000 litres."
Meeks (pinkening slightly): "And the glistening tip ..."
FeersumE: "And there is the huge flight path of the discharge to consider as well. When full bung, it can deliver seminal fluid from Brussels to the Azores, assuming favourable humidity and wind conditions.
Meeks (sobbing): "Those bastard xenophobes who voted Leave. I hate them. We have given all that up. I have a scaled copy made out of flint -- created by the foremost knapper of our generation -- with the names of 27 countries etched into the glans. How I wish the name of the UK was there too, so it too can be royally fucked by the EU."
Sir Norfolk (very, very softly): "Still, there is always the LibDems ... they are arguing for rejoin"
It is very quiet.
All three are silent, alone with the semi-fascistic dreams of power and size. The still believed the EU really can do anything. Because it was big.
His book on the eurocrisis is rather good, and revealing
https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/01/29/coronavirus-california-has-cut-its-cases-in-half-and-hospitalizations-by-a-quarter/
There was no circumstance where Greece didn't get fucked, whether or not they were in the EU, because they made the cardinal error that many governments have over time of borrowing excessively in a currency they couldn't print.
Now, you can make the excellent case that Greece should have chosen to leave the Eurozone.
And indeed it was suggested. By Germany.
But it was Greece that chose to stay.
Their choice, not anyone else's.
The mechanism itself will hit pharma investment, the spat with AZ as well. Who wants to deal with that kind of jurisdiction.
I'm honestly shocked at the incompetence.
How're the in-laws descended from 300 generations of fisherfolk doing with BJ's fantastic deal for fishing?
This is a disease that always comes in waves. Cases go through the roof. ICUs are filled. Ambulances can't deposit patients. People die.
And you know what, at that point, irrespective of whether there is a "lockdown", people don't go out. They stay home and watch Netflix and are scared.
Then cases drop.
People go out.
Rinse and repeat.
Vaccine Nationalism is ugly no matter if it comes from the EU or Guido readers IMO
Good job we have an infinite amount of AZ
And 23 million now for the fishing industry loses, plus 100 million investment to develop UK wide fishing over the next five years is far better than being in the CFP and under the ridiculous EU, who have trashed their brand in a way that was totally unexpected
European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen is trying to get out of the firing line as anger grows over the EU's botched vaccine rollout. It's not the first time in her career that she has sought to evade responsibility.
https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/europe-s-vaccine-disaster-commission-president-ursula-von-der-leyen-seeking-to-duck-responsibility-a-1197547d-6219-4438-9d69-b76e64701802-amp?__twitter_impression=true
He's prez of a nation ravaged by a virus, desperate for vaccines to cure the problem. However he has another problem, his citizens are rabid anti-vaxxers. He needs this to change.
So... on the day the EMA approves a third vaccine, crucial to France's hopes of exiting the pandemic. he says "actually this vaccine is almost totally useless in old people, the ones who really need it", thus suggesting that the European Drug Agency is either lying or clueless when it comes to vaccines, and thus throwing a cloud of doubt over all vaccines in general.
The EU has acted like a 6 year old with ADHD today, but Macron's behaviour is so bizarre it is outwith my comprehension. I just don't understand what he hopes to gain by saying this thing, when he has SO much to lose by saying it.
Flunky - "Shit, the English are invading"
Macron - "Why do they look.... similar?"
Flunky - "Shit Shit Shit. They have sent the SeanTs... millions of them..."
Macron - "WHAT?"
Flunky - "{whispers} all of them.. armed with... flint....objects"
It is possible to be pro GFA and pro British at the same time.
"Canada was expecting four million doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine by the end of March, and—despite mounting evidence that such a number probably won't be reached—the feds are sticking with it.
Multiple sources across various levels of government confirmed that the true number will be closer to 3.5 million—about 500,000 short.
The situation has gotten serious enough that Pfizer has requested Health Canada approve administrators squeezing six injections out of each vial of vaccine instead of five. But Maj.-Gen. Dany Fortin insists Pfizer is still planning to fulfill its complete promise come springtime.
Meanwhile, Canada has dropped several places globally in per-capita vaccine distribution: we now rank 20th, behind Bahrain, Denmark, Germany, Israel, Italy, Malta, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Spain and the United Arab Emirates, among others. According to an analysis by The Economist, Canada won't see widespread vaccination until mid-2022."
They see it as competition, another threat to the European 'project'. It is competition but its no threat to the latter. We also need to see it as competition, get about 4 nil up, then we can be good sports.
He may not be an expert on vaccines, but he is an expert on over 65s and we should listen to his experience.
I
If, on the other hand, failure is ignored and waved away, then that bodes ill.
If by doing so we make our order book, and too much for our own needs, then we help out. with our vaccines on our terms, whether that is RoI, third world, even, ultimately, the EU, then fine.
For now, compete, compete hard, win.
I've never had much b time for the first world are hogging the vaccine argument - the nature and distribution of COVID demands the rich Northern Hemisphere IS where, not all, but much of the greatest need is.
And as for COVID being racist, or rather, hitting minorities harder because of n other inequalities, although there is a very strong case at domestic level, that simply cannot be scaled to a global level..
May or Johnson?
Good statement
Where's Carnyx and Union Divvie when you need them?