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In spite of the latest EU dealings those who think Brexit was wrong still have clear 8% lead with Yo

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  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    So, today's summary:

    *European Commission threatens key vaccine manufacturer with legal action for breaking commitments it appears not actually to have made
    *European Commission threatens its allies with vaccine export bans. Exempts Bashar al Assad
    *President of France spreads blatant anti-vax propaganda in country with Europe's highest rate of anti-vax sentiment
    *European Commission activates emergency clause in key international treaty without making required legal representations to relevant parties
    *European Commission deactivates emergency clause in key international treaty after relevant parties find out and complain

    Is there anything I've missed?

    Sorry yes - how about this

    The EU sledgehammer is coming down. The European Council is preparing to invoke emergency powers of Article 122 against AstraZeneca and Big Pharma within days....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm bored of all the EU vaccine stuff, but can report that Hitman 3 is excellent.

    The whole trilogy has been utterly superb, like a game of chess where you manipulate the systems to off your targets.

    I'm currently hunting through a Berlin techno club to find people who are currently looking for me. The challenge is how to kill them when I find them, because there are literally hundreds of people around.

    Oh well, I'll work it out.

    You're in America. The EU story just runs and runs. eg I had no idea Macron has also just said THIS:

    https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1355198238601707525?s=20
    He's an idiot. Trump level of fake news there.
    He even SOUNDS exactly like Trump. The syntax. This is the president of France. FFS,

    What is the French for "bigly"?
  • RobD said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm bored of all the EU vaccine stuff, but can report that Hitman 3 is excellent.

    The whole trilogy has been utterly superb, like a game of chess where you manipulate the systems to off your targets.

    I'm currently hunting through a Berlin techno club to find people who are currently looking for me. The challenge is how to kill them when I find them, because there are literally hundreds of people around.

    Oh well, I'll work it out.

    You're in America. The EU story just runs and runs. eg I had no idea Macron has also just said THIS:

    https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1355198238601707525?s=20
    He's an idiot. Trump level of fake news there.
    "I'm not the commentator on others' strategy"

    What an unadulterated cunt.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    tlg86 said:
    I think it means the EU have officially jumped the shark.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It was a shock on yesterdays BBC 10 oclock news to hear one of their correspondents in the studio talking about vaccine nationalism on the part of EU countries. First time theyve said anything negative about the EU for about 30 years.

    You know its bad when even the gruardian say the EU have thrown all their toys out the pram.
    I went to their website thinking "alright, let's hear the excuses about the EU not being right etc" but, to their credit, they did not do so.
    Which indicates their objectivity. If only sundry right wing rags would take a leaf we might get somewhere.
    The bbc is slightly less objective than the guardian from which they get most of their views then take it further . Abolish the lot of them
    You mean abolish all the non right-wing outlets? Just checking.
    pfft can still read the mail if you like trying to insuate the bbc is right wing wing though is like trying to claim pineapples taste like coconut. The bbc is far to left of starmer
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,673
    edited January 2021

    In a clear, albeit backhanded way, the AZN-EU crisis has demonstrated the feasibility of Leon's theory, that Northern Ireland was in the catbird seat post-Brexit with respect to UK, ROI and EU . . . and also USA.

    Note that Eamon de Valera (of all people) was in favor of maintaining some legal, fundamental, constitutional link between Ireland and the United Kingdom. As a means of working together on matters of common interest AND also to facilitate a United Ireland eventually and peacefully. Which is why he did NOT move to turn the Free State - a republic in all but name - into an actual republic; THAT happened when Dev was in opposition.

    Just had to use Google Translate to work that one out (well ok, use Google to work out what a catbird seat was). Truly, we are divided by a common language! :smile:
  • RobD said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm bored of all the EU vaccine stuff, but can report that Hitman 3 is excellent.

    The whole trilogy has been utterly superb, like a game of chess where you manipulate the systems to off your targets.

    I'm currently hunting through a Berlin techno club to find people who are currently looking for me. The challenge is how to kill them when I find them, because there are literally hundreds of people around.

    Oh well, I'll work it out.

    You're in America. The EU story just runs and runs. eg I had no idea Macron has also just said THIS:

    https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1355198238601707525?s=20
    He's an idiot. Trump level of fake news there.
    "I'm not the commentator on others' strategy"

    What an unadulterated cunt.
    If there's one thing that I prefer unadulterated..
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    In honour of Scott P, ex-Remainer, I cut n paste this

    https://twitter.com/tombradby/status/1355262321711583232?s=20
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm bored of all the EU vaccine stuff, but can report that Hitman 3 is excellent.

    The whole trilogy has been utterly superb, like a game of chess where you manipulate the systems to off your targets.

    I'm currently hunting through a Berlin techno club to find people who are currently looking for me. The challenge is how to kill them when I find them, because there are literally hundreds of people around.

    Oh well, I'll work it out.

    You're in America. The EU story just runs and runs. eg I had no idea Macron has also just said THIS:

    https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1355198238601707525?s=20
    He's an idiot. Trump level of fake news there.
    Is he still in post-Covid psychosis?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,086
    edited January 2021
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    Leon said:

    In honour of Scott P, ex-Remainer, I cut n paste this

    https://twitter.com/tombradby/status/1355262321711583232?s=20

    It was an accident, the underling had no idea what they were doing when they signed it!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,673
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It was a shock on yesterdays BBC 10 oclock news to hear one of their correspondents in the studio talking about vaccine nationalism on the part of EU countries. First time theyve said anything negative about the EU for about 30 years.

    You know its bad when even the gruardian say the EU have thrown all their toys out the pram.
    I went to their website thinking "alright, let's hear the excuses about the EU not being right etc" but, to their credit, they did not do so.
    Which indicates their objectivity. If only sundry right wing rags would take a leaf we might get somewhere.
    The bbc is slightly less objective than the guardian from which they get most of their views then take it further . Abolish the lot of them
    You mean abolish all the non right-wing outlets? Just checking.
    pfft can still read the mail if you like trying to insuate the bbc is right wing wing though is like trying to claim pineapples taste like coconut. The bbc is far to left of starmer
    Ok so, just abolish any outlets that are peceived (by you?) as left of centre?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,695
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm bored of all the EU vaccine stuff, but can report that Hitman 3 is excellent.

    The whole trilogy has been utterly superb, like a game of chess where you manipulate the systems to off your targets.

    I'm currently hunting through a Berlin techno club to find people who are currently looking for me. The challenge is how to kill them when I find them, because there are literally hundreds of people around.

    Oh well, I'll work it out.

    You're in America. The EU story just runs and runs. eg I had no idea Macron has also just said THIS:

    https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1355198238601707525?s=20
    They want to discredit the UK's achievement any way they can.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm bored of all the EU vaccine stuff, but can report that Hitman 3 is excellent.

    The whole trilogy has been utterly superb, like a game of chess where you manipulate the systems to off your targets.

    I'm currently hunting through a Berlin techno club to find people who are currently looking for me. The challenge is how to kill them when I find them, because there are literally hundreds of people around.

    Oh well, I'll work it out.

    You're in America. The EU story just runs and runs. eg I had no idea Macron has also just said THIS:

    https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1355198238601707525?s=20
    They want to discredit the UK's achievement any way they can.
    Trouble for them is the data is showing that it is working.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm bored of all the EU vaccine stuff, but can report that Hitman 3 is excellent.

    The whole trilogy has been utterly superb, like a game of chess where you manipulate the systems to off your targets.

    I'm currently hunting through a Berlin techno club to find people who are currently looking for me. The challenge is how to kill them when I find them, because there are literally hundreds of people around.

    Oh well, I'll work it out.

    This is easy. If they are looking for you then just wait. Get into the VIP area (boundary identified by a red rope) overlooking the rest of the place and keep your back to a wall. You will see then coming.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Article untriggered.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    dr_spyn said:

    Something new, or is this old news re Salmond and Sturgeon?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-55863264

    Looks like the Craig Murray affidavits have prompted a reaction, nothing else recently has moved COPFS to hand over the requested info. Acid test will be how complete it is.
  • RobD said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm bored of all the EU vaccine stuff, but can report that Hitman 3 is excellent.

    The whole trilogy has been utterly superb, like a game of chess where you manipulate the systems to off your targets.

    I'm currently hunting through a Berlin techno club to find people who are currently looking for me. The challenge is how to kill them when I find them, because there are literally hundreds of people around.

    Oh well, I'll work it out.

    You're in America. The EU story just runs and runs. eg I had no idea Macron has also just said THIS:

    https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1355198238601707525?s=20
    He's an idiot. Trump level of fake news there.
    "I'm not the commentator on others' strategy"

    What an unadulterated cunt.
    If there's one thing that I prefer unadulterated..
    Lol!

    Seriously though, this fucker has just done his utmost to damage the reputation of what's probably the most important vaccine in the locker; the one that's dirt cheap and will be used to vaccinate most of the developing world. Then says "I'm not a commentator".

    We wish you fucking weren't Manny.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,086
    edited January 2021
    Floater said:
    We slipped and fell and accidentally hit send on a previous email saying we were...
  • In a clear, albeit backhanded way, the AZN-EU crisis has demonstrated the feasibility of Leon's theory, that Northern Ireland was in the catbird seat post-Brexit with respect to UK, ROI and EU . . . and also USA.

    Note that Eamon de Valera (of all people) was in favor of maintaining some legal, fundamental, constitutional link between Ireland and the United Kingdom. As a means of working together on matters of common interest AND also to facilitate a United Ireland eventually and peacefully. Which is why he did NOT move to turn the Free State - a republic in all but name - into an actual republic; THAT happened when Dev was in opposition.

    Addemdum - That is, the actual Republic of Ireland outside the British Commonwealth. A club that Dev would rather have remained within than without.

    BTW, de Valera called his conception "external association" which proved too subtly logical (or visa versa) but just about anybody but himself to understand let alone support. However, the British Empire > Commonwealth of Nations transformation, including numerous republics that have no difficulty recognizing the Queen & her lawful successors as Head of the Commonwealth, would seem to vindicate Dev's vision - a word not generally attached to him for several reasons.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It was a shock on yesterdays BBC 10 oclock news to hear one of their correspondents in the studio talking about vaccine nationalism on the part of EU countries. First time theyve said anything negative about the EU for about 30 years.

    You know its bad when even the gruardian say the EU have thrown all their toys out the pram.
    I went to their website thinking "alright, let's hear the excuses about the EU not being right etc" but, to their credit, they did not do so.
    Which indicates their objectivity. If only sundry right wing rags would take a leaf we might get somewhere.
    The bbc is slightly less objective than the guardian from which they get most of their views then take it further . Abolish the lot of them
    You mean abolish all the non right-wing outlets? Just checking.
    pfft can still read the mail if you like trying to insuate the bbc is right wing wing though is like trying to claim pineapples taste like coconut. The bbc is far to left of starmer
    Ok so, just abolish any outlets that are peceived (by you?) as left of centre?
    I didnt say abolish..the bbc is one imposed by law wabt to watch sky pay the bbc tax...take away the licence and let the bbc thrive on its own it would die a short merciful death as it is shit. Why do you think I should have to pay for your left wing propaganda to be spewed over a nation like the bile of a thousand camels
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    RobD said:

    eek said:

    DougSeal said:

    Question - does anyone know how to block a number so that they can't leave you voicemail?

    Will prevent me from having to report my ex for harassment...

    It's easy on an iPhone. Just open their card in your contacts and hit "block". Other smartphones are available though.
    That doesn't stop it reaching voicemail it just stops your phone ringing. If the person leaves a message you still get told a voice mail has been left.
    My ex (we have a nearly 20 year old son) has been this mad before. Now she is making all kinds of crazy legal threats which are frankly laughable. But she isn't taking no for an answer and wants more money for our "child" because any court would say what I have provided isn't sufficient for one in full-time education.

    Yes. But we have an adult son. Not a child. Who is not in education at all (gap year). And she has spent the £5k I voluntarily provided to keep him this year. Please. Sue me. All I am getting is "you are buying a 5 bedroom house for two of your children whilst your eldest child isn't benefiting.

    Yes yes, except that he can live with me when not at uni (starts a year late in September), knows he has an endless invite to do so. And he isn't a child as he's nearly fucking 20. I had the police on her two years back for attempted blackmail and harassment. They were interested. Our son brokered a truce. Shouldn't have let him...
    That sounds particularly difficult RP. Hopefully a block & your move might move things on a bit.
    I don't have the heart to point out that its a 6 bedroom house I'm buying, not 5.

    My son is welcome in my house now and always. He knows that. He doesn't have to stay with the lunatic woman who tells him in all sincerity that the moon is hollow because she has seen a documentary proving that NASA faked the moon landings.
    More bedrooms than political parties!

    Change your number
  • RobD said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm bored of all the EU vaccine stuff, but can report that Hitman 3 is excellent.

    The whole trilogy has been utterly superb, like a game of chess where you manipulate the systems to off your targets.

    I'm currently hunting through a Berlin techno club to find people who are currently looking for me. The challenge is how to kill them when I find them, because there are literally hundreds of people around.

    Oh well, I'll work it out.

    You're in America. The EU story just runs and runs. eg I had no idea Macron has also just said THIS:

    https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1355198238601707525?s=20
    He's an idiot. Trump level of fake news there.
    "I'm not the commentator on others' strategy"

    What an unadulterated cunt.
    If there's one thing that I prefer unadulterated..
    Lol!

    Seriously though, this fucker has just done his utmost to damage the reputation of what's probably the most important vaccine in the locker; the one that's dirt cheap and will be used to vaccinate most of the developing world. Then says "I'm not a commentator".

    We wish you fucking weren't Manny.
    And of course in France, they big believers in vaccines, so they won't take any notice...what's that, they aren't, they are a bunch of anti-vaxxers....
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Floater said:

    So, today's summary:

    *European Commission threatens key vaccine manufacturer with legal action for breaking commitments it appears not actually to have made
    *European Commission threatens its allies with vaccine export bans. Exempts Bashar al Assad
    *President of France spreads blatant anti-vax propaganda in country with Europe's highest rate of anti-vax sentiment
    *European Commission activates emergency clause in key international treaty without making required legal representations to relevant parties
    *European Commission deactivates emergency clause in key international treaty after relevant parties find out and complain

    Is there anything I've missed?

    Sorry yes - how about this

    The EU sledgehammer is coming down. The European Council is preparing to invoke emergency powers of Article 122 against AstraZeneca and Big Pharma within days....
    Point of order: the list consists of items that are demonstrably fact. The Article 122 threat is merely yet another lunatic thing that the rogue Eurocrats might do next week...
  • Have the EU just won the next election for Boris?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Floater said:
    We slipped and fell and accidentally hit send on a previous email saying we were...
    I read that as saying that we will trigger Article 16 in 3 weeks. Once we have evidence that the UK are sneaking their legally procured Pfizer vaccine in via NIreland "to circumvent the controls put in place" (that the UK are under absolutely zero obligation, legal or otherwise, to abide by).
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993

    So, today's summary:

    *European Commission threatens key vaccine manufacturer with legal action for breaking commitments it appears not actually to have made
    *European Commission threatens its allies with vaccine export bans. Exempts Bashar al Assad
    *President of France spreads blatant anti-vax propaganda in country with Europe's highest rate of anti-vax sentiment
    *European Commission activates emergency clause in key international treaty without making required legal representations to relevant parties
    *European Commission deactivates emergency clause in key international treaty after relevant parties find out and complain

    Is there anything I've missed?

    Has anyone read the released AZ contract yet? Reports say “best endeavours” included production from UK manufacturing plant(s).

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,086
    edited January 2021
    sarissa said:

    So, today's summary:

    *European Commission threatens key vaccine manufacturer with legal action for breaking commitments it appears not actually to have made
    *European Commission threatens its allies with vaccine export bans. Exempts Bashar al Assad
    *President of France spreads blatant anti-vax propaganda in country with Europe's highest rate of anti-vax sentiment
    *European Commission activates emergency clause in key international treaty without making required legal representations to relevant parties
    *European Commission deactivates emergency clause in key international treaty after relevant parties find out and complain

    Is there anything I've missed?

    Has anyone read the released AZ contract yet? Reports say “best endeavours” included production from UK manufacturing plant(s).

    Read previous thread....cliff notes, expert opinion is that doesn't, not until UK order filled. It could be challenged in court, but legal opinions even from very pro-European experts say not really got a leg to stand on.
  • Floater said:
    The "current lack of transparency in vaccine exports" is a breathtakingly self-serving phrase: we have all got so up in arms over the Article 16 row that the actual substance of what they are doing seems to have gone unnoticed.
  • sarissa said:

    So, today's summary:

    *European Commission threatens key vaccine manufacturer with legal action for breaking commitments it appears not actually to have made
    *European Commission threatens its allies with vaccine export bans. Exempts Bashar al Assad
    *President of France spreads blatant anti-vax propaganda in country with Europe's highest rate of anti-vax sentiment
    *European Commission activates emergency clause in key international treaty without making required legal representations to relevant parties
    *European Commission deactivates emergency clause in key international treaty after relevant parties find out and complain

    Is there anything I've missed?

    Has anyone read the released AZ contract yet? Reports say “best endeavours” included production from UK manufacturing plant(s).

    Are you cheering for the EU here?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    sarissa said:

    So, today's summary:

    *European Commission threatens key vaccine manufacturer with legal action for breaking commitments it appears not actually to have made
    *European Commission threatens its allies with vaccine export bans. Exempts Bashar al Assad
    *President of France spreads blatant anti-vax propaganda in country with Europe's highest rate of anti-vax sentiment
    *European Commission activates emergency clause in key international treaty without making required legal representations to relevant parties
    *European Commission deactivates emergency clause in key international treaty after relevant parties find out and complain

    Is there anything I've missed?

    Has anyone read the released AZ contract yet? Reports say “best endeavours” included production from UK manufacturing plant(s).

    No it didn't. The EU didn't have a leg to stand on. And what's worse is they managed to publish the whole contract (unredacted) by mistake. Breaking all commercial confidentiality.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Andy_JS said:
    The nobel peace prize has been a laughing stock since they awarded it to obama for things he hadnt done as yet and then didnt do in the end
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Has anyone seen @AlastairMeeks so we can get an explanation on why the EU are right about invoking Article 16 and this is actually the UK Government's fault?

    The plaintive cries from various PBers requesting the presence of other PBers is most touching. That they didn't seem awfully keen on those posters' contributions when they were here is another thing, but who needs consistency?
    Ah, @Theuniondivvie you haven't been paying attention. When Alastair writes, I usually thank for his articles. Even if I disagree with his viewpoint, I learn new things and he always articulates his points well, unless certain posters on here....

    Anyway, what do you reckon Nicola's view on this, divvie?
    Unless certain posters on here what?

    I apologise for not paying enough attention to your no doubt excellent posts.

    I assume she'd want the EU to sort their shit out asap, but since Sturgeon's rather more of an authentic statesperson than BJ she realises anything she says will be insufficiently patriotic for the vaccine nationalists & EUrophobes so is holding her peace. As I implied in another post, the hypocrisy of those whose constant refrain is that she should get on with the day job is noted.
    Sounds fair enough to me. Also the PBers in question would be the first to complain when they see her interacting with (other) Europeans, or even just opining on furrin policy. They were IIRC rather too ready to believe Carmichael A. on the same general topic (the resulting court judgement is one of the minor classics of the political internet as regards LDs).
    Funny, she never seems short of an opinion or three on such matters.
    Didn't say she wasn't - only that she's not allowed to in the views of some.
    I'm sure we can both point fingers at the hypocrisy on both sides, which would be rather dull.

    What I'm more interested in is where you stand on the demands of the EU for vaccines that have been purchased in good faith and in an open-handed way by the UK, with our money, to vaccinate you and me. And the manner in which they've done it.

    I'm not sure there's much dust that needs to settle to make an honest assessment of the state of play so far - but I'm not going to push you.
  • Andy_JS said:
    100% deserved, if only for the racists it would annoy.

    Maybe stop treating blacks like they're all dodgy criminals that need shooting and there'd be fewer protests. Just an idea.

    Funny all these people who are perfectly content to sit back and watch innocent people get killed day after day, but a bit of protest and things are horrendous.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    sarissa said:

    So, today's summary:

    *European Commission threatens key vaccine manufacturer with legal action for breaking commitments it appears not actually to have made
    *European Commission threatens its allies with vaccine export bans. Exempts Bashar al Assad
    *President of France spreads blatant anti-vax propaganda in country with Europe's highest rate of anti-vax sentiment
    *European Commission activates emergency clause in key international treaty without making required legal representations to relevant parties
    *European Commission deactivates emergency clause in key international treaty after relevant parties find out and complain

    Is there anything I've missed?

    Has anyone read the released AZ contract yet? Reports say “best endeavours” included production from UK manufacturing plant(s).

    Even belgian contract lawyers have tweeted saying wtf the eu has no legs
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm bored of all the EU vaccine stuff, but can report that Hitman 3 is excellent.

    The whole trilogy has been utterly superb, like a game of chess where you manipulate the systems to off your targets.

    I'm currently hunting through a Berlin techno club to find people who are currently looking for me. The challenge is how to kill them when I find them, because there are literally hundreds of people around.

    Oh well, I'll work it out.

    One of the few films based on a computer game. Can anyone name any more?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    Floater said:

    So, today's summary:

    *European Commission threatens key vaccine manufacturer with legal action for breaking commitments it appears not actually to have made
    *European Commission threatens its allies with vaccine export bans. Exempts Bashar al Assad
    *President of France spreads blatant anti-vax propaganda in country with Europe's highest rate of anti-vax sentiment
    *European Commission activates emergency clause in key international treaty without making required legal representations to relevant parties
    *European Commission deactivates emergency clause in key international treaty after relevant parties find out and complain

    Is there anything I've missed?

    Sorry yes - how about this

    The EU sledgehammer is coming down. The European Council is preparing to invoke emergency powers of Article 122 against AstraZeneca and Big Pharma within days....
    Point of order: the list consists of items that are demonstrably fact. The Article 122 threat is merely yet another lunatic thing that the rogue Eurocrats might do next week...
    A few days ago the vaccine authorisation was just a lunatic thing rogue eurocrats might do next week
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    edited January 2021
    Pagan2 said:

    Andy_JS said:
    The nobel peace prize has been a laughing stock since they awarded it to obama for things he hadnt done as yet and then didnt do in the end
    Oh, it was a laughing stock well before then. Look up Tom Lehrer's (alleged) reason for giving up satire.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588

    Andy_JS said:
    100% deserved, if only for the racists it would annoy.

    Maybe stop treating blacks like they're all dodgy criminals that need shooting and there'd be fewer protests. Just an idea.

    Funny all these people who are perfectly content to sit back and watch innocent people get killed day after day, but a bit of protest and things are horrendous.
    Violence = Peace.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    alex_ said:

    sarissa said:

    So, today's summary:

    *European Commission threatens key vaccine manufacturer with legal action for breaking commitments it appears not actually to have made
    *European Commission threatens its allies with vaccine export bans. Exempts Bashar al Assad
    *President of France spreads blatant anti-vax propaganda in country with Europe's highest rate of anti-vax sentiment
    *European Commission activates emergency clause in key international treaty without making required legal representations to relevant parties
    *European Commission deactivates emergency clause in key international treaty after relevant parties find out and complain

    Is there anything I've missed?

    Has anyone read the released AZ contract yet? Reports say “best endeavours” included production from UK manufacturing plant(s).

    No it didn't. The EU didn't have a leg to stand on. And what's worse is they managed to publish the whole contract (unredacted) by mistake. Breaking all commercial confidentiality.
    But to be fair, also giving us all a huge laugh....
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Floater said:
    If he really wants a quasi trade war dissing each other's products, I would advise Johnson to start by reminding the nation that they are not obliged to make Macron happy by buying Renault, Peugeot or Citroen cars.

    And unlike the AZ vacine, they really can be unreliable.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited January 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:
    100% deserved, if only for the racists it would annoy.

    Maybe stop treating blacks like they're all dodgy criminals that need shooting and there'd be fewer protests. Just an idea.

    Funny all these people who are perfectly content to sit back and watch innocent people get killed day after day, but a bit of protest and things are horrendous.
    Violence = Peace.
    Violence = George Floyd having a knee on his neck for eight minutes and forty six seconds.

    Someone kneeling on the floor for a few seconds or putting a fist in the air != violence.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,673
    sarissa said:

    So, today's summary:

    *European Commission threatens key vaccine manufacturer with legal action for breaking commitments it appears not actually to have made
    *European Commission threatens its allies with vaccine export bans. Exempts Bashar al Assad
    *President of France spreads blatant anti-vax propaganda in country with Europe's highest rate of anti-vax sentiment
    *European Commission activates emergency clause in key international treaty without making required legal representations to relevant parties
    *European Commission deactivates emergency clause in key international treaty after relevant parties find out and complain

    Is there anything I've missed?

    Has anyone read the released AZ contract yet? Reports say “best endeavours” included production from UK manufacturing plant(s).

    I suspect just about everyone else on here has read it, why don't you...

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_20_2467

    It's open to interpretation but key para imo is 5.1 which states "AstraZeneca shall use its Best Reasonable Efforts to manufacture the Initial Europe Doses within the EU for distribution..."

    EU not UK.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    edited January 2021

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm bored of all the EU vaccine stuff, but can report that Hitman 3 is excellent.

    The whole trilogy has been utterly superb, like a game of chess where you manipulate the systems to off your targets.

    I'm currently hunting through a Berlin techno club to find people who are currently looking for me. The challenge is how to kill them when I find them, because there are literally hundreds of people around.

    Oh well, I'll work it out.

    You're in America. The EU story just runs and runs. eg I had no idea Macron has also just said THIS:

    https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1355198238601707525?s=20
    He's an idiot. Trump level of fake news there.
    "I'm not the commentator on others' strategy"

    What an unadulterated cunt.
    If there's one thing that I prefer unadulterated..
    Lol!

    Seriously though, this fucker has just done his utmost to damage the reputation of what's probably the most important vaccine in the locker; the one that's dirt cheap and will be used to vaccinate most of the developing world. Then says "I'm not a commentator".

    We wish you fucking weren't Manny.
    It is wildly irresponsible. The science is debatable, but much of it (most of it?) says Yes, a one dose strategy makes total sense, in extremis. This is a pandemic, you can't always do everything by the book, minimising initial infections (with one shot) is the best route, but make sure you re-inject after 12 weeks (which is HMG's plan, AIUI)

    Now, fuck knows, maybe it will prove a disaster. But no one can be sure, yet here is President Emmanuel Trump of France making statements which are:1. hugely undermining confidence in the efficacy of a crucial vaccine and 2. claiming a one dose strategy is utterly wrong - and with no scientific consensus supporting him for either claim.

    Macron may be a mincing, narcissistic toyboy but he is not stupid.

    My guess? - he has been seriously unnerved by that poll showing Le Pen nearly beating him in Round 2, and he has overreacted in an "unhelpful" way
  • Am starting to get distinct feeling, that many European (including obscure off-shore islands) politicos & pundits, along with millions of less-elevated folk from Athens to Aberdeen, are longing for JOE BIDEN to come over the water to sort things out, somehow, someway? As soon as he's got his footing in DC and the USA, if not sooner!

    NOT saying that President Biden will be able to heal the ills of a suffering, revolting continent, any more than previous POTUS from Wilson to Obama. BUT clearly Uncle Joe's got more potential than his immediate predecessor.

    In a way, the last few days have perhaps helped to set the stage for Biden and his new administration to provide actual leadership for the West, or at least get us to quite acting like a bunch of chickens with our fool heads cut off.

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:
    100% deserved, if only for the racists it would annoy.

    Maybe stop treating blacks like they're all dodgy criminals that need shooting and there'd be fewer protests. Just an idea.

    Funny all these people who are perfectly content to sit back and watch innocent people get killed day after day, but a bit of protest and things are horrendous.
    Violence = Peace.
    For fuck sake police violence against blacks is an american issue just fucking leave it to them to sort out. None of the rest of us should care because we aren't american
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Has anyone seen @AlastairMeeks so we can get an explanation on why the EU are right about invoking Article 16 and this is actually the UK Government's fault?

    The plaintive cries from various PBers requesting the presence of other PBers is most touching. That they didn't seem awfully keen on those posters' contributions when they were here is another thing, but who needs consistency?
    Ah, @Theuniondivvie you haven't been paying attention. When Alastair writes, I usually thank for his articles. Even if I disagree with his viewpoint, I learn new things and he always articulates his points well, unless certain posters on here....

    Anyway, what do you reckon Nicola's view on this, divvie?
    Unless certain posters on here what?

    I apologise for not paying enough attention to your no doubt excellent posts.

    I assume she'd want the EU to sort their shit out asap, but since Sturgeon's rather more of an authentic statesperson than BJ she realises anything she says will be insufficiently patriotic for the vaccine nationalists & EUrophobes so is holding her peace. As I implied in another post, the hypocrisy of those whose constant refrain is that she should get on with the day job is noted.
    Sounds fair enough to me. Also the PBers in question would be the first to complain when they see her interacting with (other) Europeans, or even just opining on furrin policy. They were IIRC rather too ready to believe Carmichael A. on the same general topic (the resulting court judgement is one of the minor classics of the political internet as regards LDs).
    Funny, she never seems short of an opinion or three on such matters.
    Didn't say she wasn't - only that she's not allowed to in the views of some.
    I'm sure we can both point fingers at the hypocrisy on both sides, which would be rather dull.

    What I'm more interested in is where you stand on the demands of the EU for vaccines that have been purchased in good faith and in an open-handed way by the UK, with our money, to vaccinate you and me. And the manner in which they've done it.

    I'm not sure there's much dust that needs to settle to make an honest assessment of the state of play so far - but I'm not going to push you.
    And of course the UK put the money down up front. The EU are only paying on delivery.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,673
    This thread has been retracted.
  • NEW THRED
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Mirabile dictu. The spat with AstraZeneca has been lost in all this.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477

    Am starting to get distinct feeling, that many European (including obscure off-shore islands) politicos & pundits, along with millions of less-elevated folk from Athens to Aberdeen, are longing for JOE BIDEN to come over the water to sort things out, somehow, someway? As soon as he's got his footing in DC and the USA, if not sooner!

    NOT saying that President Biden will be able to heal the ills of a suffering, revolting continent, any more than previous POTUS from Wilson to Obama. BUT clearly Uncle Joe's got more potential than his immediate predecessor.

    In a way, the last few days have perhaps helped to set the stage for Biden and his new administration to provide actual leadership for the West, or at least get us to quite acting like a bunch of chickens with our fool heads cut off.

    Nobody here is acting like a chicken with its fool head cut off. The EU is doing that, so you'd have to ask them if they need Biden to put them back on the straight and narrow. I doubt it personally, but who knows.
This discussion has been closed.