Build a wall around France....they are going to have this plague forever with that sort of attitude from their leader...
If he really said that the guy is a fucking muppet. He's got enough issues with vaccine sceptism as it is. The worry is that there are so many anti-vaxxers in France that Macron might go completely mental to try and outflank the Front National. Might be good for his re-election chances but terrible for the French people.
Look at the bright side, if the French hate it, it'll massively increase take up, especially amongst the most ardent Brexiteers.
All that is missing from the EU commissions response it to blame the fact the EU isn't integrated enough and there must be a review to form closer bond between the nations....overseen by a new EU wide bidy.
We had that this morning didn't we? They had the whole "we can fix this with a health union" crap I thought.
Build a wall around France....they are going to have this plague forever with that sort of attitude from their leader...
If he really said that the guy is a fucking muppet. He's got enough issues with vaccine sceptism as it is. The worry is that there are so many anti-vaxxers in France that Macron might go completely mental to try and outflank the Front National. Might be good for his re-election chances but terrible for the French people.
The other shoe to drop will be the Kent variant getting established over there just as the EU and France continue to dick about rather than actually fix the problem. People are going to die who need not have, all to make political points.
What non-sinister motivation could he possibly have for saying such a thing? Macron isn't fool enough to not understand the difference between why the German regulator made its call, vs claims the vaccine simply does not work.
"Today everything suggests that it is almost ineffective for those over 65 and some say over 60."
If this is an accurate translation of what President Macron said today about the AZ vaccine, I'm afraid it pushes him in my book towards the vicinity of another President, one we have just gotten rid of, who specialized in toxic bullshit. And I never thought I would say that.
Should we still be trying to vax all the EU's oldsters before we finish the job in the UK?
AstraZeneca to hold press conference following EU approval of jab Vaccine manufacturer AstraZeneca is due to hold a press conference at 17:15 GMT.
"Remember, smile"
Not answering questions on the spat with the EU. Quite sensibly.
Because the EU are making mistake after mistake - never interrupt your opponent and all that
I’m not somewhere I can watch it, but it will demonstrate the patience of a saint not to get a dig in about not commenting on confidential, commercially sensitive, terms in contracts. I wouldn’t be able to avoid it.
All that is missing from the EU commissions response it to blame the fact the EU isn't integrated enough and there must be a review to form closer bond between the nations....overseen by a new EU wide bidy.
We had that this morning didn't we? They had the whole "we can fix this with a health union" crap I thought.
Makes sense that smaller, more nimble countries are doing better.
What about Scotland ? *innocent face***
To be fair, I think that was the decision to really focus on care homes, above the general population. I can see advantages and disadvantages to that approach.
That's "the line" but its rapidly running out of road - who said it had to be "either or"?
All that is missing from the EU commissions response it to blame the fact the EU isn't integrated enough and there must be a review to form closer bond between the nations....overseen by a new EU wide bidy.
I'm finding this thread boringly one sided and partisan - is there anyone out there to help Kinabalu and None of the Above - what's happened to you. These people need help! Now! We have a serious Remain shortage. Paging! Paging! They can't all have urgent vaccine appointments surely.
*Your call cannot be answered at this time. Please try later."
I've already said. This hasn't put me off ReJoining. NO WAY! Yes Ursula vdl has made a bog of this one. Yes it's up with one or two of Trump/Boris's dafter policies. But. BUT It's ONE. And I'm certain wiser heads will prevail after the weekend.
And before anyone preens themselves and say look how well UK has done; it was the pharmaceutical industry that did well. Initially anyway. Not the government.
What the hell is Macron doing? I always thought the French were a nation of hypochondriacs, who were always at the Doctors getting pills for imaginary fits of the vapours. When did they become tin foil hatted conspiracy theorists?
They are not keen on actual medicine though: most pharmacies in France stock a wide range of what they call homéopathie, though many of them are in fact herbal remedies.
They're very keen on suppositories. Perhaps AZ could re-formulate the vaccine?
Doesn't Scotland have an older, fatter, unhealthier population than England, too? So it's even more serious for them than it looks that they're lagging so far behind.
Case rates in Scotland are currently about half those in England, on the figures from PCR testing, and I think the difference is a bit larger in the ONS survey, so you would expect that the NHS is not so close to breaking point in Scotland, and the urgency to vaccinate to head off an imminent collapse of the NHS is also less.
I'd much rather that Scotland kept up with the vaccination rates seen elsewhere in the UK though.
Different approach - focussing on care homes and housebound, so slower to begin with.
I'm actually relieved if they don't go in for a few mass centres yet but rely more on GPs, certainly for the old - I have real concerns about public transport/taxis, and my GP was very efficient with the flu a couple of months back.
Fair point. Mass centres not much use to rural Scotland. All the same, not much sign of a pick-up up here so far, from what I can see.
And the optics over the release of data surprisingly maladroit.
If the Scots get away with a small fraction of the care home outbreaks that England have - apparently, see TUD's post - been having, it may well be more than justified.
Edit: they'd still be lucky - but the outcome will kbe very interesting anyway.
And the latter in your perception, perhaps (as indeed the reference to optics may acknowledge). But there are normal SNP-bashers actually defending Ms Sturgeon onm this (Davie Clegg: see yesterday).
Jesus Christ! Are they mad?!!! What’s happened to them?
It does lead one to ask, if they think the vaccine is ineffective (it isn't, of course), why are they so desperate to get hold if it ?
Stop those nasty Brits getting it? I mean, they're trying to.... well. No. I can't come up with any logical reason. Maybe they think by restricting the British from it, us Brits won't waste time getting a vaccine that doesn't work. Saving us all time and effort you see.
Always thinking of us the EU is. Saving us from ourselves... or something....
Honest question - how much of this is spite because we left?
It's spite because we're visibly doing something better than them, and when the Commission made a song and dance about taking over vaccine procurement from the member states, the optics of that are terrible for them.
Who are you, and how have you managed to get William's login details?
When those we love let us down it hurts all the more.
Look at all those who are the most strongly against Tores/Labour/LDs - usually disappointed former members.
By the way, if vaccines ordered by the UK are blocked from export to the UK (and re-allocated to EU orders - specifically Pfizer ones), I do NOT want exports of essential ingredients from the UK to the EU blocked, UNLESS it can be specifically shown that they are needed at production sites that ARE supplying the UK. In no way do I want 'revenge' - that would be madness. The most important thing is that vaccines are made, and get given to someone, fast.
All that is missing from the EU commissions response it to blame the fact the EU isn't integrated enough and there must be a review to form closer bond between the nations....overseen by a new EU wide bidy.
All that is missing from the EU commissions response it to blame the fact the EU isn't integrated enough and there must be a review to form closer bond between the nations....overseen by a new EU wide bidy.
What non-sinister motivation could he possibly have for saying such a thing? Macron isn't fool enough to not understand the difference between why the German regulator made its call, vs claims the vaccine simply does not work.
The recent poll that had the FN candidate breathing down his neck.....
France is 1-2 spectacular fuckups from having something really, really scary. A really hard right government, with people in it with experience of running government (at the lower levels). This wouldn't be Trump. This would be Tom Cotton.....
So how do we increase vacc. supply so there is genuinely more now (or soon) rather than arguing over the same pie?
One possibility I can spot is for Sanofi to abandon their vaccine attempt (which I assume they are keeping manufacturing capacity aside for) and turn their manufacturing over to one of the other vaccines - Valneva looks the likeliest, as the French will never agree to AZN, and Pfizer has big issues concerning usability.
Sanofi have already agreed to produce the Pfizer jab under license I believe.
There's actually a lot of this going on right now, and this is another reason to get increasingly comfortable about vaccine supply going forward.
So: Bayer has already started manufacturing on behalf of CureVac, and both Novartis and Sanofi will be making the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. The Serum Institute of India is making both the AZN and Novavax vaccines.
I haven't yet seen any announcements from other people producing Moderna. But I presume they're in negotiations with people.
Really then the EU's problem will probably only be for a couple of months. The problem is, like us, it's a very bad couple of months.
Not that the developers could have moved faster, but if we'd been lucky enough for the third wave to be in March, things would have looked very different, possibly for tens of thousands of lives.
Macron's remarks apparently come from an interview given to The Graun and a small group of other media organisations. They report his remarks in some detail, but they might best be summarised as 'The UK vaccine is shit. The UK regulator is shit as well. But we demand the UK hand it over anyway.' It's astonishing!
About the only crumb of comfort is that he claims the EU won't impose outright bans on vaccine exports, but whether or not we can trust any of this bunch of clowns to honour a word that they say is a matter for debate to put it mildly.
AstraZeneca to hold press conference following EU approval of jab Vaccine manufacturer AstraZeneca is due to hold a press conference at 17:15 GMT.
"Remember, smile"
Not answering questions on the spat with the EU. Quite sensibly.
Because the EU are making mistake after mistake - never interrupt your opponent and all that
I’m not somewhere I can watch it, but it will demonstrate the patience of a saint not to get a dig in about not commenting on confidential, commercially sensitive, terms in contracts. I wouldn’t be able to avoid it.
"I will only say that it is unfortunate and concerning..." Left it at that when asked direct question again about the contract argument.
I'm finding this thread boringly one sided and partisan - is there anyone out there to help Kinabalu and None of the Above - what's happened to you. These people need help! Now! We have a serious Remain shortage. Paging! Paging! They can't all have urgent vaccine appointments surely.
*Your call cannot be answered at this time. Please try later."
I've already said. This hasn't put me off ReJoining. NO WAY! Yes Ursula vdl has made a bog of this one. Yes it's up with one or two of Trump/Boris's dafter policies. But. BUT It's ONE. And I'm certain wiser heads will prevail after the weekend.
And before anyone preens themselves and say look how well UK has done; it was the pharmaceutical industry that did well. Initially anyway. Not the government.
And yet the pharmaceutical companies are the ones saying the reason they got so far ahead in development is because of the involvement and support of the British Government.
Though I understand your position on the EU. One set of morons in charge does not mean the whole project is bad - if you support that sort of thing in the first place. I use the same argument about Brexit. Johnson has made a right pigs ear of the actual deal but that doesn't mean the concept was in any way flawed as far as I am concerned.
The obvious response from the UK government is to announce some sort of scheme where new big pharma production will get some sort of tax break.
Open for business....
There's relatively cheap green field land available in Northumberland and County Durham, combined with a decent knowledge base from the universities and GSK's existing presence. It would be perfect opportunity, in my opinion, for the government to offer tax incentives for new pharma to open or expand their manufacturing and research presence here in the North East. It would also be well received in the Tory's new seats.
When i said earlier I thought it was interesting that Macron hadn't said anything about this dispute, then he opens his mouth and it is the equivalent of doing a maasive dump on the table.
Perhaps this is why he needs to spout off on a regular basis, and other so the same type here, as otherwise they build it up for one reallllly stupid comment.
By the way, if vaccines ordered by the UK are blocked from export to the UK (and re-allocated to EU orders - specifically Pfizer ones), I do NOT want exports of essential ingredients from the UK to the EU blocked, UNLESS it can be specifically shown that they are needed at production sites that ARE supplying the UK. In no way do I want 'revenge' - that would be madness. The most important thing is that vaccines are made, and get given to someone, fast.
Put them in crates, mark them them as Third World Humanitarian relief supported by the British government, and deliver them to the Élysée. It's the only way.
So how do we increase vacc. supply so there is genuinely more now (or soon) rather than arguing over the same pie?
One possibility I can spot is for Sanofi to abandon their vaccine attempt (which I assume they are keeping manufacturing capacity aside for) and turn their manufacturing over to one of the other vaccines - Valneva looks the likeliest, as the French will never agree to AZN, and Pfizer has big issues concerning usability.
Sanofi have already agreed to produce the Pfizer jab under license I believe.
There's actually a lot of this going on right now, and this is another reason to get increasingly comfortable about vaccine supply going forward.
So: Bayer has already started manufacturing on behalf of CureVac, and both Novartis and Sanofi will be making the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. The Serum Institute of India is making both the AZN and Novavax vaccines.
I haven't yet seen any announcements from other people producing Moderna. But I presume they're in negotiations with people.
Maybe - but I suspect that will be quite difficult. Moderna has what is for them seriously valuable IP in terms of formulating the mRNA in lipid nanoparticles for delivery, and some of that is likely to be commercial secrets rather than patentable processes. Getting them to share might take some effort.
Is it done very differently to CureVac and Pfizer?
AstraZeneca to hold press conference following EU approval of jab Vaccine manufacturer AstraZeneca is due to hold a press conference at 17:15 GMT.
"Remember, smile"
Not answering questions on the spat with the EU. Quite sensibly.
The EU have been desperate to pick and fight and they have to stick to their guns if in the right, but it's still not in a company's interests to try to pick a fight with a government of that size anymore than they have to.
By the way, if vaccines ordered by the UK are blocked from export to the UK (and re-allocated to EU orders - specifically Pfizer ones), I do NOT want exports of essential ingredients from the UK to the EU blocked, UNLESS it can be specifically shown that they are needed at production sites that ARE supplying the UK. In no way do I want 'revenge' - that would be madness. The most important thing is that vaccines are made, and get given to someone, fast.
AstraZeneca to hold press conference following EU approval of jab Vaccine manufacturer AstraZeneca is due to hold a press conference at 17:15 GMT.
"Remember, smile"
Not answering questions on the spat with the EU. Quite sensibly.
Because the EU are making mistake after mistake - never interrupt your opponent and all that
I’m not somewhere I can watch it, but it will demonstrate the patience of a saint not to get a dig in about not commenting on confidential, commercially sensitive, terms in contracts. I wouldn’t be able to avoid it.
"I will only say that it is unfortunate and concerning..." Left it at that when asked direct question again about the contract argument.
“Unfortunate” and “concerning”? Blimey - in international relations speak he almost declared war.
AstraZeneca to hold press conference following EU approval of jab Vaccine manufacturer AstraZeneca is due to hold a press conference at 17:15 GMT.
"Remember, smile"
Not answering questions on the spat with the EU. Quite sensibly.
Because the EU are making mistake after mistake - never interrupt your opponent and all that
I’m not somewhere I can watch it, but it will demonstrate the patience of a saint not to get a dig in about not commenting on confidential, commercially sensitive, terms in contracts. I wouldn’t be able to avoid it.
"I will only say that it is unfortunate and concerning..." Left it at that when asked direct question again about the contract argument.
“Unfortunate” and “concerning”? Blimey - in international relations speak he almost declared war.
The obvious response from the UK government is to announce some sort of scheme where new big pharma production will get some sort of tax break.
Open for business....
There's relatively cheap green field land available in Northumberland and County Durham, combined with a decent knowledge base from the universities and GSK's existing presence. It would be perfect opportunity, in my opinion, for the government to offer tax incentives for new pharma to open or expand their manufacturing and research presence here in the North East. It would also be well received in the Tory's new seats.
Absolutely agree with this, we have an amazing research base, top expertise and a great skills base coming out of our universities.
An industrial strategy on this would be very welcome.
By the way, if vaccines ordered by the UK are blocked from export to the UK (and re-allocated to EU orders - specifically Pfizer ones), I do NOT want exports of essential ingredients from the UK to the EU blocked, UNLESS it can be specifically shown that they are needed at production sites that ARE supplying the UK. In no way do I want 'revenge' - that would be madness. The most important thing is that vaccines are made, and get given to someone, fast.
By the way, if vaccines ordered by the UK are blocked from export to the UK (and re-allocated to EU orders - specifically Pfizer ones), I do NOT want exports of essential ingredients from the UK to the EU blocked, UNLESS it can be specifically shown that they are needed at production sites that ARE supplying the UK. In no way do I want 'revenge' - that would be madness. The most important thing is that vaccines are made, and get given to someone, fast.
Agree.
Likewise. This could kill actual, real people.
What would a vaccine export ban to the UK and all of he other nations not included in the EU's list of exemptions do then?
We have an obligation to the rest of the world to ensure the precious materials we supply are used for vaccines that can be exported everywhere in the world, not just where some Eurocrat decides is worthy of receiving it.
It’s the Telegraph, so I’d need to see another source to believe it, but that really would be mad. Seizing IP from pharma companies?! Do they want an industry...?
The obvious response from the UK government is to announce some sort of scheme where new big pharma production will get some sort of tax break.
Open for business....
There's relatively cheap green field land available in Northumberland and County Durham, combined with a decent knowledge base from the universities and GSK's existing presence. It would be perfect opportunity, in my opinion, for the government to offer tax incentives for new pharma to open or expand their manufacturing and research presence here in the North East. It would also be well received in the Tory's new seats.
Absolutely agree with this, we have an amazing research base, top expertise and a great skills base coming out of our universities.
An industrial strategy on this would be very welcome.
Stockton is also where Novavax is being manufactured and at some point in the next 2 months a Freeport will be estabilished on Teesside.
Some of us "remainers" play the long game. Several things can be true at once:
1. There's no doubt that the EU have made a complete mess of their vaccine strategy, and seem to keep digging once they are in a hole. Not much disagreement here on that, just different levels of excitability.
2. The most likely outcome is that this whole episode, which has excited so many on here, will blow over in due course and global vaccinations will continue apace. Helpfully, thus far the UK government has done well not to inflame tensions; I hope that continues.
3. Nobody I know is campaigning for, or expects, the UK to rejoin the EU in the short or medium term.
4. The vaccine shambles doesn't really tell us much about Brexit. Brexit may be a success, it may be a failure; most probably somewhere in between. But we only properly left the EU a month ago, so I don't believe anybody can be sure about how things will pan out yet. I'll give it three years before I can make a judgement.
So how do we increase vacc. supply so there is genuinely more now (or soon) rather than arguing over the same pie?
One possibility I can spot is for Sanofi to abandon their vaccine attempt (which I assume they are keeping manufacturing capacity aside for) and turn their manufacturing over to one of the other vaccines - Valneva looks the likeliest, as the French will never agree to AZN, and Pfizer has big issues concerning usability.
Sanofi have already agreed to produce the Pfizer jab under license I believe.
There's actually a lot of this going on right now, and this is another reason to get increasingly comfortable about vaccine supply going forward.
So: Bayer has already started manufacturing on behalf of CureVac, and both Novartis and Sanofi will be making the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. The Serum Institute of India is making both the AZN and Novavax vaccines.
I haven't yet seen any announcements from other people producing Moderna. But I presume they're in negotiations with people.
Maybe - but I suspect that will be quite difficult. Moderna has what is for them seriously valuable IP in terms of formulating the mRNA in lipid nanoparticles for delivery, and some of that is likely to be commercial secrets rather than patentable processes. Getting them to share might take some effort.
Is it done very differently to CureVac and Pfizer?
I posted a link a few days back from someone who had listed the various components listed for the respective vaccines, and there were significant differences between Pfizer and Moderna. The details of how it's actually manufactured are obviously not public, but the characteristics of the lipid blob which encapsulates the active mRNA are important both for the stability of the molecule (which otherwise would degrade very rapidly), and getting it into cells once injected, so that it can do its stuff.
Given they've worked on this for a decade or more, I think we can guess that it is important and commercially very valuable.
I don't know why that MP is telling everyone to calm down though. Messrs Johnson, Hancock and Soriot have all been still and placid as so many millponds. "Everyone" ain't the problem here.
The obvious response from the UK government is to announce some sort of scheme where new big pharma production will get some sort of tax break.
Open for business....
There's relatively cheap green field land available in Northumberland and County Durham, combined with a decent knowledge base from the universities and GSK's existing presence. It would be perfect opportunity, in my opinion, for the government to offer tax incentives for new pharma to open or expand their manufacturing and research presence here in the North East. It would also be well received in the Tory's new seats.
Absolutely agree with this, we have an amazing research base, top expertise and a great skills base coming out of our universities.
An industrial strategy on this would be very welcome.
Stockton is also where Novavax is being manufactured and at some point in the next 2 months a Freeport will be estabilished on Teesside.
Of course I included Stockton in my definition of County Durham.
Love the site, a fantastic resource for both diverse and educated views of all sides of arguments.
I have been addicted to the threads over the last couple of days, especially regarding the somewhat strange behaviour of 1. The EU. 2. Germany. 3 France (now joining the fray)
It was all looking rather haphazard until number 3. Why is Macron also saying AZN is shit?
Bit of a conspiracy theory, and I hope I am wrong, but what if there is about to be a real problem with infection rates, hospitalisations and death in Germany, France etc in the very near future. They may have wind of this coming (see Portugal) and are trying to mitigate the absolute shitstorm that will be coming their way. Given that it is mainly old people who shuffle off their mortal coil for this virus, how could you cover your arse for not acting sooner:
1. Try and get (steal?) as much vaccine as soon as possible, and get cracking 2. If you can’t get said vaccine, then say that it is rubbish for the aged, and hey presto! It doesn’t matter that we have massive deaths of the elderly, as even if we could have gotten the vaccine (we didn’t, because we are useless), it wouldn’t have had any beneficial effect on the elderly anyway!
It’s the Telegraph, so I’d need to see another source to believe it, but that really would be mad. Seizing IP from pharma companies?! Do they want an industry...?
By the way, if vaccines ordered by the UK are blocked from export to the UK (and re-allocated to EU orders - specifically Pfizer ones), I do NOT want exports of essential ingredients from the UK to the EU blocked, UNLESS it can be specifically shown that they are needed at production sites that ARE supplying the UK. In no way do I want 'revenge' - that would be madness. The most important thing is that vaccines are made, and get given to someone, fast.
Absolutely. It would be appalling to injure the people in the EU on account of the unhinged actions of their leaders. The people are already suffering enough injury from them them directly. Anyone who has friends in the EU must be nearly as angry about their screwed up vaccination as the people directly affected are.
Some of us "remainers" play the long game. Several things can be true at once:
1. There's no doubt that the EU have made a complete mess of their vaccine strategy, and seem to keep digging once they are in a hole. Not much disagreement here on that, just different levels of excitability.
2. The most likely outcome is that this whole episode, which has excited so many on here, will blow over in due course and global vaccinations will continue apace. Helpfully, thus far the UK government has done well not to inflame tensions; I hope that continues.
3. Nobody I know is campaigning for, or expects, the UK to rejoin the EU in the short or medium term.
4. The vaccine shambles doesn't really tell us much about Brexit. Brexit may be a success, it may be a failure; most probably somewhere in between. But we only properly left the EU a month ago, so I don't believe anybody can be sure about how things will pan out yet. I'll give it three years before I can make a judgement.
It is not so much that but the damage they have done to themselves, and the effect it will have going forward on pharmaceutical and other inward investment into the EU
By the way, if vaccines ordered by the UK are blocked from export to the UK (and re-allocated to EU orders - specifically Pfizer ones), I do NOT want exports of essential ingredients from the UK to the EU blocked, UNLESS it can be specifically shown that they are needed at production sites that ARE supplying the UK. In no way do I want 'revenge' - that would be madness. The most important thing is that vaccines are made, and get given to someone, fast.
Agree.
Likewise. This could kill actual, real people.
What would a vaccine export ban to the UK and all of he other nations not included in the EU's list of exemptions do then?
We have an obligation to the rest of the world to ensure the precious materials we supply are used for vaccines that can be exported everywhere in the world, not just where some Eurocrat decides is worthy of receiving it.
It's a fine judgment - *IF* it comes to it, which it hasn't yet. As others have pointed out, taking action which would compromise EU vaccine production is ultimately counterproductive. There are alternative means of expressing displeasure forcefully though. The disputed status of the EU representative in London would become moot if he were to be thrown out.
Love the site, a fantastic resource for both diverse and educated views of all sides of arguments.
I have been addicted to the threads over the last couple of days, especially regarding the somewhat strange behaviour of 1. The EU. 2. Germany. 3 France (now joining the fray)
It was all looking rather haphazard until number 3. Why is Macron also saying AZN is shit?
Bit of a conspiracy theory, and I hope I am wrong, but what if there is about to be a real problem with infection rates, hospitalisations and death in Germany, France etc in the very near future. They may have wind of this coming (see Portugal) and are trying to mitigate the absolute shitstorm that will be coming their way. Given that it is mainly old people who shuffle off their mortal coil for this virus, how could you cover your arse for not acting sooner:
1. Try and get (steal?) as much vaccine as soon as possible, and get cracking 2. If you can’t get said vaccine, then say that it is rubbish for the aged, and hey presto! It doesn’t matter that we have massive deaths of the elderly, as even if we could have gotten the vaccine (we didn’t, because we are useless), it wouldn’t have had any beneficial effect on the elderly anyway!
As I say, I hope I am wrong.
I hope you are wrong as well. Sadly, that looks very plausible.
Love the site, a fantastic resource for both diverse and educated views of all sides of arguments.
I have been addicted to the threads over the last couple of days, especially regarding the somewhat strange behaviour of 1. The EU. 2. Germany. 3 France (now joining the fray)
It was all looking rather haphazard until number 3. Why is Macron also saying AZN is shit?
Bit of a conspiracy theory, and I hope I am wrong, but what if there is about to be a real problem with infection rates, hospitalisations and death in Germany, France etc in the very near future. They may have wind of this coming (see Portugal) and are trying to mitigate the absolute shitstorm that will be coming their way. Given that it is mainly old people who shuffle off their mortal coil for this virus, how could you cover your arse for not acting sooner:
1. Try and get (steal?) as much vaccine as soon as possible, and get cracking 2. If you can’t get said vaccine, then say that it is rubbish for the aged, and hey presto! It doesn’t matter that we have massive deaths of the elderly, as even if we could have gotten the vaccine (we didn’t, because we are useless), it wouldn’t have had any beneficial effect on the elderly anyway!
As I say, I hope I am wrong.
Macron's behaviour in particular is pretty strange, as I cannot see any reason to say things that I cannot believe he does not know is not true, whatever the comments of the German regulators on why they ar emore cautious.
That said, longstanding reason to be wary of any conspiracy theories still applies, in that actually planning such a strategy would surely be known and probably get leaked - it's so coldly calculated the odds of someone saying something has to be high.
As far as I am aware cases are going down in Germany and not surging in France, so while they are not having great times, an big surge incoming may not be on the cards, we can all hope.
So I'm inclined to believe that the German press overhyped info leaked to them to divert attention from the slow rollout, the EU is panicking and reverting to standard governmental distraction and wild accusations, and Macron has gone overboard in the standard UK bashing that French presidents will indulge in like our own politicians indulge in french bashing.
The EU needs to calm down and stop. Now. Never mind the relationship with us, if they start the new Biden era by preventing him hitting his vaccine target, even if unintentionally, it will have an impact.
Love the site, a fantastic resource for both diverse and educated views of all sides of arguments.
I have been addicted to the threads over the last couple of days, especially regarding the somewhat strange behaviour of 1. The EU. 2. Germany. 3 France (now joining the fray)
It was all looking rather haphazard until number 3. Why is Macron also saying AZN is shit?
Bit of a conspiracy theory, and I hope I am wrong, but what if there is about to be a real problem with infection rates, hospitalisations and death in Germany, France etc in the very near future. They may have wind of this coming (see Portugal) and are trying to mitigate the absolute shitstorm that will be coming their way. Given that it is mainly old people who shuffle off their mortal coil for this virus, how could you cover your arse for not acting sooner:
1. Try and get (steal?) as much vaccine as soon as possible, and get cracking 2. If you can’t get said vaccine, then say that it is rubbish for the aged, and hey presto! It doesn’t matter that we have massive deaths of the elderly, as even if we could have gotten the vaccine (we didn’t, because we are useless), it wouldn’t have had any beneficial effect on the elderly anyway!
As I say, I hope I am wrong.
The European Commission is co-ordinating a diversionary attack on the UK, to mask its own failings.
The Germans aren't mental (I think the 8% story a couple of days ago is most likely the product of individual idiocy rather than official conspiracy,) but they've had a lot of deaths themselves and are probably frightened of how long this is going to drag on for whilst they wait for the jab supply to free up. This is understandable, even if the measures that they're promoting could be very damaging - *IF* they were to go as far as to use them. Remember, everything so far has been sabre-rattling rhetoric and angry paper shuffling.
Love the site, a fantastic resource for both diverse and educated views of all sides of arguments.
I have been addicted to the threads over the last couple of days, especially regarding the somewhat strange behaviour of 1. The EU. 2. Germany. 3 France (now joining the fray)
It was all looking rather haphazard until number 3. Why is Macron also saying AZN is shit?
Bit of a conspiracy theory, and I hope I am wrong, but what if there is about to be a real problem with infection rates, hospitalisations and death in Germany, France etc in the very near future. They may have wind of this coming (see Portugal) and are trying to mitigate the absolute shitstorm that will be coming their way. Given that it is mainly old people who shuffle off their mortal coil for this virus, how could you cover your arse for not acting sooner:
1. Try and get (steal?) as much vaccine as soon as possible, and get cracking 2. If you can’t get said vaccine, then say that it is rubbish for the aged, and hey presto! It doesn’t matter that we have massive deaths of the elderly, as even if we could have gotten the vaccine (we didn’t, because we are useless), it wouldn’t have had any beneficial effect on the elderly anyway!
As I say, I hope I am wrong.
Macron's behaviour in particular is pretty strange, as I cannot see any reason to say things that I cannot believe he does not know is not true, whatever the comments of the German regulators on why they ar emore cautious.
That said, longstanding reason to be wary of any conspiracy theories still applies, in that actually planning such a strategy would surely be known and probably get leaked - it's so coldly calculated the odds of someone saying something has to be high.
As far as I am aware cases are going down in Germany and not surging in France, so while they are not having great times, an big surge incoming may not be on the cards, we can all hope.
So I'm inclined to believe that the German press overhyped info leaked to them to divert attention from the slow rollout, the EU is panicking and reverting to standard governmental distraction and wild accusations, and Macron has gone overboard in the standard UK bashing that French presidents will indulge in like our own politicians indulge in french bashing.
I don't think it is coordinated - just a juvenile I-want-it-if-I-cant-have-it-it-must-be-rubbish spasm
Comments
https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1355203503124307973
The Antipope of Mar-a-Lago
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/01/29/trump-antipope-president-mar-a-lago-463238
https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1355201090430636037
Quite sensibly.
I think some (not all) soft Remainers will start to see that we Leavers had a point about Brexit.
South Korea keen on providing vaccine aid to North Korea
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2021/01/103_303313.html
Will be very interesting to see this when it's published fairly soon.
Weekly figure that's key as ever.
But, it should be formally noted by the UK. And it should influence its own actions and strategy in future.
Yes Ursula vdl has made a bog of this one. Yes it's up with one or two of Trump/Boris's dafter policies. But. BUT It's ONE. And I'm certain wiser heads will prevail after the weekend.
And before anyone preens themselves and say look how well UK has done; it was the pharmaceutical industry that did well. Initially anyway. Not the government.
Edit: they'd still be lucky - but the outcome will kbe very interesting anyway.
And the latter in your perception, perhaps (as indeed the reference to optics may acknowledge). But there are normal SNP-bashers actually defending Ms Sturgeon onm this (Davie Clegg: see yesterday).
I mean, they're trying to.... well. No. I can't come up with any logical reason.
Maybe they think by restricting the British from it, us Brits won't waste time getting a vaccine that doesn't work. Saving us all time and effort you see.
Always thinking of us the EU is. Saving us from ourselves... or something....
Look at all those who are the most strongly against Tores/Labour/LDs - usually disappointed former members.
Open for business....
France is 1-2 spectacular fuckups from having something really, really scary. A really hard right government, with people in it with experience of running government (at the lower levels). This wouldn't be Trump. This would be Tom Cotton.....
Not that the developers could have moved faster, but if we'd been lucky enough for the third wave to be in March, things would have looked very different, possibly for tens of thousands of lives.
Janet Street-Porter nails it here:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9202075/JANET-STREET-PORTER-Boris-Johnsons-vaccine-strategy-pure-genius.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/29/emmanuel-macron-coronavirus-vaccine-exports-eu-controlled
Macron's remarks apparently come from an interview given to The Graun and a small group of other media organisations. They report his remarks in some detail, but they might best be summarised as 'The UK vaccine is shit. The UK regulator is shit as well. But we demand the UK hand it over anyway.' It's astonishing!
About the only crumb of comfort is that he claims the EU won't impose outright bans on vaccine exports, but whether or not we can trust any of this bunch of clowns to honour a word that they say is a matter for debate to put it mildly.
Left it at that when asked direct question again about the contract argument.
Though I understand your position on the EU. One set of morons in charge does not mean the whole project is bad - if you support that sort of thing in the first place. I use the same argument about Brexit. Johnson has made a right pigs ear of the actual deal but that doesn't mean the concept was in any way flawed as far as I am concerned.
1) Banning vaccine exports?
2) Insisting UK made vaccines be sent to the EU?
Or both?
The answer is 3.
Somewhere in deepest Euroland they think they are playing a blinder.......
An industrial strategy on this would be very welcome.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/01/29/eu-threatens-war-time-occupation-vaccine-makers-crisis-spirals/
I understand the views of others on this - but in my mind, if they cut us off we have to respond
We have an obligation to the rest of the world to ensure the precious materials we supply are used for vaccines that can be exported everywhere in the world, not just where some Eurocrat decides is worthy of receiving it.
1. There's no doubt that the EU have made a complete mess of their vaccine strategy, and seem to keep digging once they are in a hole. Not much disagreement here on that, just different levels of excitability.
2. The most likely outcome is that this whole episode, which has excited so many on here, will blow over in due course and global vaccinations will continue apace. Helpfully, thus far the UK government has done well not to inflame tensions; I hope that continues.
3. Nobody I know is campaigning for, or expects, the UK to rejoin the EU in the short or medium term.
4. The vaccine shambles doesn't really tell us much about Brexit. Brexit may be a success, it may be a failure; most probably somewhere in between. But we only properly left the EU a month ago, so I don't believe anybody can be sure about how things will pan out yet. I'll give it three years before I can make a judgement.
The details of how it's actually manufactured are obviously not public, but the characteristics of the lipid blob which encapsulates the active mRNA are important both for the stability of the molecule (which otherwise would degrade very rapidly), and getting it into cells once injected, so that it can do its stuff.
Given they've worked on this for a decade or more, I think we can guess that it is important and commercially very valuable.
Love the site, a fantastic resource for both diverse and educated views of all sides of arguments.
I have been addicted to the threads over the last couple of days, especially regarding the somewhat strange behaviour of 1. The EU. 2. Germany. 3 France (now joining the fray)
It was all looking rather haphazard until number 3. Why is Macron also saying AZN is shit?
Bit of a conspiracy theory, and I hope I am wrong, but what if there is about to be a real problem with infection rates, hospitalisations and death in Germany, France etc in the very near future. They may have wind of this coming (see Portugal) and are trying to mitigate the absolute shitstorm that will be coming their way. Given that it is mainly old people who shuffle off their mortal coil for this virus, how could you cover your arse for not acting sooner:
1. Try and get (steal?) as much vaccine as soon as possible, and get cracking
2. If you can’t get said vaccine, then say that it is rubbish for the aged, and hey presto! It doesn’t matter that we have massive deaths of the elderly, as even if we could have gotten the vaccine (we didn’t, because we are useless), it wouldn’t have had any beneficial effect on the elderly anyway!
As I say, I hope I am wrong.
Though that is somewhat ambiguous (and they said much the same over here, several months before Christmas).
The EU so far has shown all the dignity and judgement of a man who's shoved his todger into a Chinese finger trap.
Edited extra bit: and they're annoyed we didn't show solidarity by taking the other end!
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1355212119277522945
EU fall into their own Irish bear trap.
That said, longstanding reason to be wary of any conspiracy theories still applies, in that actually planning such a strategy would surely be known and probably get leaked - it's so coldly calculated the odds of someone saying something has to be high.
As far as I am aware cases are going down in Germany and not surging in France, so while they are not having great times, an big surge incoming may not be on the cards, we can all hope.
So I'm inclined to believe that the German press overhyped info leaked to them to divert attention from the slow rollout, the EU is panicking and reverting to standard governmental distraction and wild accusations, and Macron has gone overboard in the standard UK bashing that French presidents will indulge in like our own politicians indulge in french bashing.
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1355212587676393472?s=20
The Germans aren't mental (I think the 8% story a couple of days ago is most likely the product of individual idiocy rather than official conspiracy,) but they've had a lot of deaths themselves and are probably frightened of how long this is going to drag on for whilst they wait for the jab supply to free up. This is understandable, even if the measures that they're promoting could be very damaging - *IF* they were to go as far as to use them. Remember, everything so far has been sabre-rattling rhetoric and angry paper shuffling.
Macron is a dickhead.