So Brussels - how is that No Deal Brexit looking down your end of the telescope?
I assume they will deal with it in the same way as they have dealt with every other UK proposal since Cameron's renegotiation: bemusement followed by refusal. Are you expecting something different?
I've been saying for a while that No Deal was a 75%-80% chance of happening, I think I was lowballing it.
It really depends how you feel May, the Tory party and the country will react when we're at the edge of the precipice. No deal is either nailed on, or impossible.
Could you please take me through the thought process where an MP would think delaying Brexit by a few months would be disrespectful to Leave voters, but overturning Brexit altogether would be fine.
Must be very frustrating for Mrs May. You can't but admire her patience. She's been telling the children for yonks that There Is No Alternative and that the only way to avoid No Deal is to, err, back the deal that is available. And yet we have to go through this charade yet again.
Cooper and Grieve have at least shown there is no will in parliament to block Brexit. A useful service, even if it will have cost me £40 on Betfair
After tonight, Brexit Means Brexit.
Only question is, what flavour? May's Deal as is, May's Deal as Brussels cave and amend - or No Deal.
Going to be one. Corbyn wants No Deal (Oh Yes He Does!). How many of his MPs will end up supporting May's Deal (whatever form) rather than see No Deal happen?
Brussels, whether Brady passes or fails tonight, the UK MPs have just gone all in on Brexit happening. Want to lose £39 billion on it being No Deal, for a backstop nobody apparently wants?
I've been saying for a while that No Deal was a 75%-80% chance of happening, I think I was lowballing it.
Do you not think that at the last moment the goverment might blink? Obviously they have to pretend they won't, but I find it hard to believe they are sanguine about crashing out.
No, if the MPs aren't voting for something as benign as the today's amendments then they certainly will not vote for revocation/extension of Article 50.
Am I right in saying that with Cooper/Grieve's amendments falling, if Brady's amendment passes and the EU refuses to reopen the WA, then the Remainers in parliament will have no choice but to vote for May's deal to avoid No Deal?
Yes but the Brady amendment is irrelevant as the EU will reject it, if May's Deal is to pass it will be as is with the backstop
"Intransigent Brussels refuses to negotiate - ensures Hard Brexit"
I've been saying for a while that No Deal was a 75%-80% chance of happening, I think I was lowballing it.
It really depends how you feel May, the Tory party and the country will react when we're at the edge of the precipice. No deal is either nailed on, or impossible.
She has ruled it out, several times. So she will blink. I am quite sure the Revocation Bill is already drafted and locked away in someone's top drawer.
I've been saying for a while that No Deal was a 75%-80% chance of happening, I think I was lowballing it.
It really depends how you feel May, the Tory party and the country will react when we're at the edge of the precipice. No deal is either nailed on, or impossible.
Nailed on. Has been since December. Party before country every single time.
Caroline Lucas has just used my "pointing a gun at your own head" analogy.
EDIT: Here it is again in full
My analogy is a person pointing a gun at their own head and threatening to pull the trigger and spatter the other side with blood if they don't get their own way. They are probably bluffing but they might not be, or might accidentally pull the trigger, particularly as some who are not in the line of fire are egging them on. Letwin believes it is reckless behaviour and not to be tolerated.
Must be very frustrating for Mrs May. You can't but admire her patience. She's been telling the children for yonks that There Is No Alternative and that the only way to avoid No Deal is to, err, back the deal that is available. And yet we have to go through this charade yet again.
Or remain, of course. Odd that you forgot that option.
How would remain or a second referendum make it through the house?
Anyone who thinks a 2nd Referendum has any chance of a Parliamentary Majority aint paying attention to these votes.
Our MPs at this moment are sitting on a chair watching the tide come in. They have three options. They can sit where they are, and get drowned. They can climb on the chair, in which case there is a risk they will be swept away but a chance they will be safe. Or they can run above the high-water mark.
So what are they doing? Ordering the tide to turn back.
It's obvious.
They are all Cnuts.
(For the avoidance of doubt, being drowned is no Deal, climbing on the chair is the deal, the retreat to safety is revoke. Ordering the tide to turn to go away is every single thing they have debated tonight. This is just unreal.)
While I don't see much in the government's latest 'plan' that seems viable, after the rightful praise of the Labour whipping operation in some recent votes the government whips do appear to have done a stellar job so far.
Am I right in saying that with Cooper/Grieve's amendments falling, if Brady's amendment passes and the EU refuses to reopen the WA, then the Remainers in parliament will have no choice but to vote for May's deal to avoid No Deal?
Yes but the Brady amendment is irrelevant as the EU will reject it, if May's Deal is to pass it will be as is with the backstop
Yes, I wasn't clear... but the Brady amendment has a cunning purpose as it puts the ball in the EU's court and when they tell us NO, parliamentarians will be squeezed into a narrow choice between May's Deal and No Deal. Remainers will then know the only way to avoid No Deal will be to outvote the ERG?
Must be very frustrating for Mrs May. You can't but admire her patience. She's been telling the children for yonks that There Is No Alternative and that the only way to avoid No Deal is to, err, back the deal that is available. And yet we have to go through this charade yet again.
Or remain, of course. Odd that you forgot that option.
How would remain or a second referendum make it through the house?
Anyone who thinks a 2nd Referendum has any chance of a Parliamentary Majority aint paying attention to these votes.
Apparently Jez, the lifelong leaver and Eurosceptic will have a change of heart...
So Brussels - how is that No Deal Brexit looking down your end of the telescope?
I assume they will deal with it in the same way as they have dealt with every other UK proposal since Cameron's renegotiation: bemusement followed by refusal. Are you expecting something different?
Frankly, yes. Past forms says something will happen in the final 48 hours of dealing with the EU. That needs No Deal still to be on the table - tick. Irish panicking - tick. Other heads of EU countries wondering "is it worth dying in a ditch for the backstop?" - tick.
Must be very frustrating for Mrs May. You can't but admire her patience. She's been telling the children for yonks that There Is No Alternative and that the only way to avoid No Deal is to, err, back the deal that is available. And yet we have to go through this charade yet again.
Or remain, of course. Odd that you forgot that option.
If there's no majority to delay brexit there's no majority to stop it altogether.
Our MPs at this moment are sitting on a chair watching the tide come in. They have three options. They can sit where they are, and get drowned. They can climb on the chair, in which case there is a risk they will be swept away but a chance they will be safe. Or they can run above the high-water mark.
So what are they doing? Ordering the tide to turn back.
It's obvious.
They are all Cnuts.
(For the avoidance of doubt, being drowned is no Deal, climbing on the chair is the deal, the retreat to safety is revoke. Ordering the tide to turn to go away is every single thing they have debated tonight. This is just unreal.)
Seems to me there is an unspoken conspiracy in Commons to end up with No Deal.
Ultra WTO unicorns believers: happy
Northern Leave Lab: happy
Corbyn 'Marxism will happen when there is utter chaos anyway' MPs : happy
A movement of half a cent is not dramatic. From memory, when May in the 2016? Party Conference made it obvious that Customs Union and Single Market membership were being unsought, it fell by around two cents a day for four days straight. I was vexed.
As a rough rule of thumb: every time she speeches, GBP falls
It really isn't. The reason there is no alternative is that in accordance with the Lisbon Treaty and after a two-year negotiation the UK government and the EU have formally agreed a 500+ page Withdrawal Agreement which the EU aren't willing to change, as they've been telling anyone who asks for weeks. Perhaps is some parallel universe there might have been a different Withdrawal Agreement, but it's not obvious how or why.
But, of course, it's completely unacceptable to Parliament, her party and her coalition partners because it's terrible.
Whether or not terrible is the only possible outcome is irrelevant counterfactual. What we have here is a terrible deal that the EU is trying to force on us. Either we crash out without a deal, or the ERG and the DUP cave in to the EU, or May blinks and revokes.
Those are the three options. We don't need extensions, or referendums, or indicative votes. We just need to run down the clock and see which Tories crack first.
Our MPs at this moment are sitting on a chair watching the tide come in. They have three options. They can sit where they are, and get drowned. They can climb on the chair, in which case there is a risk they will be swept away but a chance they will be safe. Or they can run above the high-water mark.
So what are they doing? Ordering the tide to turn back.
It's obvious.
They are all Cnuts.
(For the avoidance of doubt, being drowned is no Deal, climbing on the chair is the deal, the retreat to safety is revoke. Ordering the tide to turn to go away is every single thing they have debated tonight. This is just unreal.)
Seems to me there is an unspoken conspiracy in Commons to end up with No Deal.
Ultra WTO unicorns believers: happy
Northern Leave Lab: happy
Corbyn 'Marxism will happen when there is utter chaos anyway' MPs : happy
I am very angry tonight. Off the scale.
Am I alone?
This is enough to make anyone think Trotsky and Cromwell both had a point when they dissolved elected assemblies by armed force.
Must be very frustrating for Mrs May. You can't but admire her patience. She's been telling the children for yonks that There Is No Alternative and that the only way to avoid No Deal is to, err, back the deal that is available. And yet we have to go through this charade yet again.
No. Talking to people like children and having zero political imagination is reason why there is no alternative.
It really isn't. The reason there is no alternative is that in accordance with the Lisbon Treaty and after a two-year negotiation the UK government and the EU have formally agreed a 500+ page Withdrawal Agreement which the EU aren't willing to change, as they've been telling anyone who asks for weeks. Perhaps in some parallel universe there might have been a different Withdrawal Agreement, but it's not obvious how or why, and it ain't available in this universe.
May forgot she has to take Parliament with her. We are now dealing with that fundamental error.
Must be very frustrating for Mrs May. You can't but admire her patience. She's been telling the children for yonks that There Is No Alternative and that the only way to avoid No Deal is to, err, back the deal that is available. And yet we have to go through this charade yet again.
Or remain, of course. Odd that you forgot that option.
How would remain or a second referendum make it through the house?
Anyone who thinks a 2nd Referendum has any chance of a Parliamentary Majority aint paying attention to these votes.
Apparently Jez, the lifelong leaver and Eurosceptic will have a change of heart...
It’s more likely he would stop and have a friendly chat with the daily mail reporter that doorsteps him on a regular basis!
One thing is clear tonight -we are leaving one way or another. Remain is finished
I mean this is obviously not the case.
There is definitely no majority for it in Parliament. I'd expect a second ref amendment to get voted down by an even bigger margin than these two.
Doesn’t matter. No Deal is simply not an option.
On the contrary, it is the default option and Parliament has just reaffirmed that tonight.
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
He happens to be correct. Merely because it is an option you and I don't want to see taken doesn't mean it isn't what's going to happen unless a positive decision is taken for another course of action.
I just don’t believe that the adults in Parliament
I've spotted a flaw here...
You got there before I did. Although I would have used rude words.
Must be very frustrating for Mrs May. You can't but admire her patience. She's been telling the children for yonks that There Is No Alternative and that the only way to avoid No Deal is to, err, back the deal that is available. And yet we have to go through this charade yet again.
No. Talking to people like children and having zero political imagination is reason why there is no alternative.
It really isn't. The reason there is no alternative is that in accordance with the Lisbon Treaty and after a two-year negotiation the UK government and the EU have formally agreed a 500+ page Withdrawal Agreement which the EU aren't willing to change, as they've been telling anyone who asks for weeks. Perhaps in some parallel universe there might have been a different Withdrawal Agreement, but it's not obvious how or why, and it ain't available in this universe.
May forgot she has to take Parliament with her. We are now dealing with that fundamental error.
Yeah, sure. All those LibDem, SNP and Labour MPs were really, really keen to help. Corbyn wanted nothing more than to engage in constructive collaboration with the Tories.
Am I right in saying that with Cooper/Grieve's amendments falling, if Brady's amendment passes and the EU refuses to reopen the WA, then the Remainers in parliament will have no choice but to vote for May's deal to avoid No Deal?
May needs to bring another Meaningful Vote again in two weeks. If/when she loses that by another thumping majority, the whole cycle repeats.
Nothing Has Changed.
Possibly, but the Commons seem (to my enormous surprise ) to be closing off Remain as an option.
I've been saying for a while that No Deal was a 75%-80% chance of happening, I think I was lowballing it.
It really depends how you feel May, the Tory party and the country will react when we're at the edge of the precipice. No deal is either nailed on, or impossible.
Nailed on. Has been since December. Party before country every single time.
As one of the few pundits on here of either faction that called Brexit correctly, this carries weight with me. No Deal it is.
I don't particularly mind, and think the scares exagerrated. The decay will be slow not abrupt.
Must be very frustrating for Mrs May. You can't but admire her patience. She's been telling the children for yonks that There Is No Alternative and that the only way to avoid No Deal is to, err, back the deal that is available. And yet we have to go through this charade yet again.
No. Talking to people like children and having zero political imagination is reason why there is no alternative.
It really isn't. The reason there is no alternative is that in accordance with the Lisbon Treaty and after a two-year negotiation the UK government and the EU have formally agreed a 500+ page Withdrawal Agreement which the EU aren't willing to change, as they've been telling anyone who asks for weeks. Perhaps in some parallel universe there might have been a different Withdrawal Agreement, but it's not obvious how or why, and it ain't available in this universe.
May forgot she has to take Parliament with her. We are now dealing with that fundamental error.
Yeah, sure. All those LibDem, SNP and Labour MPs were really, really keen to help. Corbyn wanted nothing more than to engage in constructive collaboration with the Tories.
It's funny, isn't it? May thought she was running down the clock to try to pressurise people into supporting her deal. Actually everyone else is running down the clock to try and pressurise her.
Our MPs at this moment are sitting on a chair watching the tide come in. They have three options. They can sit where they are, and get drowned. They can climb on the chair, in which case there is a risk they will be swept away but a chance they will be safe. Or they can run above the high-water mark.
So what are they doing? Ordering the tide to turn back.
It's obvious.
They are all Cnuts.
(For the avoidance of doubt, being drowned is no Deal, climbing on the chair is the deal, the retreat to safety is revoke. Ordering the tide to turn to go away is every single thing they have debated tonight. This is just unreal.)
Seems to me there is an unspoken conspiracy in Commons to end up with No Deal.
Ultra WTO unicorns believers: happy
Northern Leave Lab: happy
Corbyn 'Marxism will happen when there is utter chaos anyway' MPs : happy
I am very angry tonight. Off the scale.
Am I alone?
It's not a conspiracy, per se, it's just that a lot more people see political advantage in no deal occurring than will admit it. It does not necessarily mean that it is the preferred option of all that many, but it is, rightly or not, not seen in the interests of enough people to prevent it. You identify why that may be.
Our MPs at this moment are sitting on a chair watching the tide come in. They have three options. They can sit where they are, and get drowned. They can climb on the chair, in which case there is a risk they will be swept away but a chance they will be safe. Or they can run above the high-water mark.
So what are they doing? Ordering the tide to turn back.
It's obvious.
They are all Cnuts.
(For the avoidance of doubt, being drowned is no Deal, climbing on the chair is the deal, the retreat to safety is revoke. Ordering the tide to turn to go away is every single thing they have debated tonight. This is just unreal.)
Seems to me there is an unspoken conspiracy in Commons to end up with No Deal.
Ultra WTO unicorns believers: happy
Northern Leave Lab: happy
Corbyn 'Marxism will happen when there is utter chaos anyway' MPs : happy
I am very angry tonight. Off the scale.
Am I alone?
This is enough to make anyone think Trotsky and Cromwell both had a point when they dissolved elected assemblies by armed force.
This must be the worst Parliament in my lifetime, as far as giving a flying f*** for anything but their own tiny personal agendas and petty ego trips.
They have more interest in whether their tie is straight on live TV than the nation.
Am I right in saying that with Cooper/Grieve's amendments falling, if Brady's amendment passes and the EU refuses to reopen the WA, then the Remainers in parliament will have no choice but to vote for May's deal to avoid No Deal?
May needs to bring another Meaningful Vote again in two weeks. If/when she loses that by another thumping majority, the whole cycle repeats.
Nothing Has Changed.
Possibly, but the Commons seem (to my enormous surprise ) to be closing off Remain as an option.
The game has changed. It's not "prevent no deal" it's "avoid the blame for no deal".
Am I right in saying that with Cooper/Grieve's amendments falling, if Brady's amendment passes and the EU refuses to reopen the WA, then the Remainers in parliament will have no choice but to vote for May's deal to avoid No Deal?
Yes but the Brady amendment is irrelevant as the EU will reject it, if May's Deal is to pass it will be as is with the backstop
Yes, I wasn't clear... but the Brady amendment has a cunning purpose as it puts the ball in the EU's court and when they tell us NO, parliamentarians will be squeezed into a narrow choice between May's Deal and No Deal. Remainers will then know the only way to avoid No Deal will be to outvote the ERG?
The EU have already told us No, the Brady amendment is irrelevant and a time waster, either MPs get behind May's Deal as is or it is likely to be No Deal
Trying to blame ‘no deal’ on remainers is just hilarious. Just utterly ridiculously laughable.
It's up the the EU now - do they want a deal ?
It's absolutely a realistic concession/renegotiation for the EU to make. If they won't even take another look at it then they're as complicit as the most awkward factions within parliament in allowing no deal to happen.
It's funny, isn't it? May thought she was running down the clock to try to pressurise people into supporting her deal. Actually everyone else is running down the clock to try and pressurise her.
They've been doing that all along. The trouble is that different groups are trying to push her in multiple different directions.
Am I right in saying that with Cooper/Grieve's amendments falling, if Brady's amendment passes and the EU refuses to reopen the WA, then the Remainers in parliament will have no choice but to vote for May's deal to avoid No Deal?
Yes but the Brady amendment is irrelevant as the EU will reject it, if May's Deal is to pass it will be as is with the backstop
Yes, I wasn't clear... but the Brady amendment has a cunning purpose as it puts the ball in the EU's court and when they tell us NO, parliamentarians will be squeezed into a narrow choice between May's Deal and No Deal. Remainers will then know the only way to avoid No Deal will be to outvote the ERG?
The EU have already told us No, the Brady amendment is irrelevant and a time waster, either MPs get behind May's Deal as is or it is likely to be No Deal
So the EU are in favour of ignoring national parliaments ? Or no deal ?
Must be very frustrating for Mrs May. You can't but admire her patience. She's been telling the children for yonks that There Is No Alternative and that the only way to avoid No Deal is to, err, back the deal that is available. And yet we have to go through this charade yet again.
No. Talking to people like children and having zero political imagination is reason why there is no alternative.
It really isn't. The reason there is no alternative is that in accordance with the Lisbon Treaty and after a two-year negotiation the UK government and the EU have formally agreed a 500+ page Withdrawal Agreement which the EU aren't willing to change, as they've been telling anyone who asks for weeks. Perhaps in some parallel universe there might have been a different Withdrawal Agreement, but it's not obvious how or why, and it ain't available in this universe.
May forgot she has to take Parliament with her. We are now dealing with that fundamental error.
Yeah, sure. All those LibDem, SNP and Labour MPs were really, really keen to help. Corbyn wanted nothing more than to engage in constructive collaboration with the Tories.
Not only did she not try, she antagonised them and polarised the debate. If we’ve learned anything it is that there are enough Labour Brexit MPs who could have been brought in.
Our MPs at this moment are sitting on a chair watching the tide come in. They have three options. They can sit where they are, and get drowned. They can climb on the chair, in which case there is a risk they will be swept away but a chance they will be safe. Or they can run above the high-water mark.
So what are they doing? Ordering the tide to turn back.
It's obvious.
They are all Cnuts.
(For the avoidance of doubt, being drowned is no Deal, climbing on the chair is the deal, the retreat to safety is revoke. Ordering the tide to turn to go away is every single thing they have debated tonight. This is just unreal.)
The point of Cnut was that he was purposely showing his subjects he was powerless against the tide.
Am I right in saying that with Cooper/Grieve's amendments falling, if Brady's amendment passes and the EU refuses to reopen the WA, then the Remainers in parliament will have no choice but to vote for May's deal to avoid No Deal?
Yes but the Brady amendment is irrelevant as the EU will reject it, if May's Deal is to pass it will be as is with the backstop
Yes, I wasn't clear... but the Brady amendment has a cunning purpose as it puts the ball in the EU's court and when they tell us NO, parliamentarians will be squeezed into a narrow choice between May's Deal and No Deal. Remainers will then know the only way to avoid No Deal will be to outvote the ERG?
The EU have already told us No, the Brady amendment is irrelevant and a time waster, either MPs get behind May's Deal as is or it is likely to be No Deal
No Deal, then.
I mean, we hear that 40 Tory remainers are apparently willing to resign the whip to prevent no deal, but nobody believes those bags of watery piss have the guts.
When the EU rejects re-opening the WA, May will switch to No Deal as her preferred option and the Tory remainers will do NOTHING.
Must be very frustrating for Mrs May. You can't but admire her patience. She's been telling the children for yonks that There Is No Alternative and that the only way to avoid No Deal is to, err, back the deal that is available. And yet we have to go through this charade yet again.
No. Talking to people like children and having zero political imagination is reason why there is no alternative.
It really isn't. The reason there is no alternative is that in accordance with the Lisbon Treaty and after a two-year negotiation the UK government and the EU have formally agreed a 500+ page Withdrawal Agreement which the EU aren't willing to change, as they've been telling anyone who asks for weeks. Perhaps in some parallel universe there might have been a different Withdrawal Agreement, but it's not obvious how or why, and it ain't available in this universe.
May forgot she has to take Parliament with her. We are now dealing with that fundamental error.
Yeah, sure. All those LibDem, SNP and Labour MPs were really, really keen to help. Corbyn wanted nothing more than to engage in constructive collaboration with the Tories.
Not only did she not try, she antagonised them and polarised the debate. If we’ve learned anything it is that there are enough Labour Brexit MPs who could have been brought in.
So they are gone for good and will support No Deal, rather than come round to at least abstaining when her deal gets presented again?
I looked at the Malthouse plan and it looked like a confusing mess.
I looked at it last night. It can be summarised as:
* 1: if Plan A fails, keep offering Plan A * 2: if Plan A fails, use plan B during the Implementation Period, despite the fact that the "Implementation Period" has no meaning if Plan A fails and the EU has not agreed Plan B * 3: If Plan B fails, use Plan C, despite the fact that the EU has not agreed Plan C.
That was it. Several highly paid MPs sat down and came up with this. I've read Blake's 7 fan fiction that was more convincing. I'm not joking.
Must be very frustrating for Mrs May. You can't but admire her patience. She's been telling the children for yonks that There Is No Alternative and that the only way to avoid No Deal is to, err, back the deal that is available. And yet we have to go through this charade yet again.
No. Talking to people like children and having zero political imagination is reason why there is no alternative.
It really isn't. The reason there is no alternative is that in accordance with the Lisbon Treaty and after a two-year negotiation the UK government and the EU have formally agreed a 500+ page Withdrawal Agreement which the EU aren't willing to change, as they've been telling anyone who asks for weeks. Perhaps in some parallel universe there might have been a different Withdrawal Agreement, but it's not obvious how or why, and it ain't available in this universe.
May forgot she has to take Parliament with her. We are now dealing with that fundamental error.
Yeah, sure. All those LibDem, SNP and Labour MPs were really, really keen to help. Corbyn wanted nothing more than to engage in constructive collaboration with the Tories.
Not only did she not try, she antagonised them and polarised the debate. If we’ve learned anything it is that there are enough Labour Brexit MPs who could have been brought in.
Am I right in saying that with Cooper/Grieve's amendments falling, if Brady's amendment passes and the EU refuses to reopen the WA, then the Remainers in parliament will have no choice but to vote for May's deal to avoid No Deal?
May needs to bring another Meaningful Vote again in two weeks. If/when she loses that by another thumping majority, the whole cycle repeats.
Nothing Has Changed.
Possibly, but the Commons seem (to my enormous surprise ) to be closing off Remain as an option.
The game has changed. It's not "prevent no deal" it's "avoid the blame for no deal".
The calculations are very different.
First rule of politics: the government is to blame.
May has bought herself a fortnight by holding out some hope of a way forward. But can she deliver?
Am I right in saying that with Cooper/Grieve's amendments falling, if Brady's amendment passes and the EU refuses to reopen the WA, then the Remainers in parliament will have no choice but to vote for May's deal to avoid No Deal?
Yes but the Brady amendment is irrelevant as the EU will reject it, if May's Deal is to pass it will be as is with the backstop
Yes, I wasn't clear... but the Brady amendment has a cunning purpose as it puts the ball in the EU's court and when they tell us NO, parliamentarians will be squeezed into a narrow choice between May's Deal and No Deal. Remainers will then know the only way to avoid No Deal will be to outvote the ERG?
The EU have already told us No, the Brady amendment is irrelevant and a time waster, either MPs get behind May's Deal as is or it is likely to be No Deal
So the EU are in favour of ignoring national parliaments ? Or no deal ?
Which is it ?
The EU are in favour of keeping the 27 behind their Deal
So there is a majority for stopping no deal but the self serving ****s don’t want to get their hands dirty. They want someone else to do it.
Unless they have voted either for the Deal or to revoke, this vote is as utterly meaningless as the rest of this debate. It's more sterile than two eunuchs arguing first use of a condom.
Must be very frustrating for Mrs May. You can't but admire her patience. She's been telling the children for yonks that There Is No Alternative and that the only way to avoid No Deal is to, err, back the deal that is available. And yet we have to go through this charade yet again.
No. Talking to people like children and having zero political imagination is reason why there is no alternative.
It really isn't. The reason there is no alternative is that in accordance with the Lisbon Treaty and after a two-year negotiation the UK government and the EU have formally agreed a 500+ page Withdrawal Agreement which the EU aren't willing to change, as they've been telling anyone who asks for weeks. Perhaps in some parallel universe there might have been a different Withdrawal Agreement, but it's not obvious how or why, and it ain't available in this universe.
May forgot she has to take Parliament with her. We are now dealing with that fundamental error.
Yeah, sure. All those LibDem, SNP and Labour MPs were really, really keen to help. Corbyn wanted nothing more than to engage in constructive collaboration with the Tories.
Not only did she not try, she antagonised them and polarised the debate. If we’ve learned anything it is that there are enough Labour Brexit MPs who could have been brought in.
I would agree with that and she suffered badly for it. But now we are at the business end of the negotiations she is listening and it is those on the other side of the argument that are inadvertently driving us towards no deal.
I vote we replace Parliament with a trained African Gray that you feed it a cracker and it goes "Nothing has changed! Nothing has changed! Who's a pretty boy then?!"
Could you please take me through the thought process where an MP would think delaying Brexit by a few months would be disrespectful to Leave voters, but overturning Brexit altogether would be fine.
You see, where you went wrong there was using the words "thought process" and "MP" in the same sentence.
"But then the prospect of a lot Of dull MPs In close poximity All thinking for themselves is what No man can face with equinimity."
Comments
He could've been Lab leader if he hadn't shit out.
Only question is, what flavour? May's Deal as is, May's Deal as Brussels cave and amend - or No Deal.
Going to be one. Corbyn wants No Deal (Oh Yes He Does!). How many of his MPs will end up supporting May's Deal (whatever form) rather than see No Deal happen?
Brussels, whether Brady passes or fails tonight, the UK MPs have just gone all in on Brexit happening. Want to lose £39 billion on it being No Deal, for a backstop nobody apparently wants?
titter.
(But cop shoots cop is not as good a story as cop shoots BAME individual whether justified or not)
So what are they doing? Ordering the tide to turn back.
It's obvious.
They are all Cnuts.
(For the avoidance of doubt, being drowned is no Deal, climbing on the chair is the deal, the retreat to safety is revoke. Ordering the tide to turn to go away is every single thing they have debated tonight. This is just unreal.)
Ultra WTO unicorns believers: happy
Northern Leave Lab: happy
Corbyn 'Marxism will happen when there is utter chaos anyway' MPs : happy
I am very angry tonight. Off the scale.
Am I alone?
As a rough rule of thumb: every time she speeches, GBP falls
Whether or not terrible is the only possible outcome is irrelevant counterfactual. What we have here is a terrible deal that the EU is trying to force on us. Either we crash out without a deal, or the ERG and the DUP cave in to the EU, or May blinks and revokes.
Those are the three options. We don't need extensions, or referendums, or indicative votes. We just need to run down the clock and see which Tories crack first.
Cant have 7 amendments with 7 defeats surely
Brexit....means....Brexit..
Let's hope they can afford to lose it.
I don't particularly mind, and think the scares exagerrated. The decay will be slow not abrupt.
They have more interest in whether their tie is straight on live TV than the nation.
God save of us from this ship of fools.
deal, no Brexit or no deal Brexit.
I was the only one who felt no deal Brexit was likely outcome.
Other two options were fairly close in numbers
The calculations are very different.
https://twitter.com/mattzarb/status/1090343973636460544
Which is it ?
I mean, we hear that 40 Tory remainers are apparently willing to resign the whip to prevent no deal, but nobody believes those bags of watery piss have the guts.
When the EU rejects re-opening the WA, May will switch to No Deal as her preferred option and the Tory remainers will do NOTHING.
For 318
Against 310
So the Commons has voted against No Deal but without yet voting for any of the means to stop it!
* 1: if Plan A fails, keep offering Plan A
* 2: if Plan A fails, use plan B during the Implementation Period, despite the fact that the "Implementation Period" has no meaning if Plan A fails and the EU has not agreed Plan B
* 3: If Plan B fails, use Plan C, despite the fact that the EU has not agreed Plan C.
That was it. Several highly paid MPs sat down and came up with this. I've read Blake's 7 fan fiction that was more convincing. I'm not joking.
May has bought herself a fortnight by holding out some hope of a way forward. But can she deliver?
What a shock.
Responsibility shirking wankers.
How?
I know they are an hour ahead, so could cause confusion.
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1090345281185554432
Of dull MPs
In close poximity
All thinking for themselves is what
No man can face with equinimity."
Quote of the night.