Wow didnt expect Cooper to lose by that much. If the Brady amendment passes it will be a rare recent moment of the Tories coming together in the national interest. Lots of work to do but today is a big step forward for May no matter what noises are coming out of Brussels.
Evening all I don’t see how these votes change very much. It is either May’s deal, no deal or revoke and remain. The EU say they will not reopen the negotiations. The only way I think they would consider changes is after a General Election which resulted in a majority and united government.
Could you please take me through the thought process where an MP would think delaying Brexit by a few months would be disrespectful to Leave voters, but overturning Brexit altogether would be fine.
I'm amazed the margin Cooper/Grieve have failed by to be fair. The Labour rebels are a hell of a lot quieter than the Tory remainers.. but they come out and break the whip lol
There is no point claiming you are opposed to a ‘no deal’ Brexit if you are not prepared to will the legal means to stop it happening. Non-binding motions are not the same as legally binding laws. The Cooper and Grieve amendments addressed this. A bad day for Parliament.
Awwwww….. poor Chuka...demanding that Parliament should run things, then moan when the loss is there.
I'm amazed the margin Cooper/Grieve have failed by to be fair. The Labour rebels are a hell of a lot quieter than the Tory remainers.. but they come out and break the whip lol
I'm amazed the margin Cooper/Grieve have failed by to be fair. The Labour rebels are a hell of a lot quieter than the Tory remainers.. but they come out and break the whip lol
I'm amazed the margin Cooper/Grieve have failed by to be fair. The Labour rebels are a hell of a lot quieter than the Tory remainers.. but they come out and break the whip lol
Could you please take me through the thought process where an MP would think delaying Brexit by a few months would be disrespectful to Leave voters, but overturning Brexit altogether would be fine.
You see, where you went wrong there was using the words "thought process" and "MP" in the same sentence.
Must be very frustrating for Mrs May. You can't but admire her patience. She's been telling the children for yonks that There Is No Alternative and that the only way to avoid No Deal is to, err, back the deal that is available. And yet we have to go through this charade yet again.
Labour are going to get a lot of flack. The Tories will squeek through, but what a reckless shambles. Utterly utterly dreadful. This is going to end with blood on the streets.
Must be very frustrating for Mrs May. You can't but admire her patience. She's been telling the children for yonks that There Is No Alternative and that the only way to avoid No Deal is to, err, back the deal that is available. And yet we have to go through this charade yet again.
Cooper and Grieve have at least shown there is no will in parliament to block Brexit. A useful service, even if it will have cost me £40 on Betfair
Must be very frustrating for Mrs May. You can't but admire her patience. She's been telling the children for yonks that There Is No Alternative and that the only way to avoid No Deal is to, err, back the deal that is available. And yet we have to go through this charade yet again.
Or remain, of course. Odd that you forgot that option.
One thing is clear tonight -we are leaving one way or another. Remain is finished
I mean this is obviously not the case.
There is definitely no majority for it in Parliament. I'd expect a second ref amendment to get voted down by an even bigger margin than these two.
Doesn’t matter. No Deal is simply not an option.
On the contrary, it is the default option and Parliament has just reaffirmed that tonight.
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
He happens to be correct. Merely because it is an option you and I don't want to see taken doesn't mean it isn't what's going to happen unless a positive decision is taken for another course of action.
Must be very frustrating for Mrs May. You can't but admire her patience. She's been telling the children for yonks that There Is No Alternative and that the only way to avoid No Deal is to, err, back the deal that is available. And yet we have to go through this charade yet again.
Or remain, of course. Odd that you forgot that option.
'Revoke', as we call it. Yes, but there's no majority for that either.
Must be very frustrating for Mrs May. You can't but admire her patience. She's been telling the children for yonks that There Is No Alternative and that the only way to avoid No Deal is to, err, back the deal that is available. And yet we have to go through this charade yet again.
No. Talking to people like children and having zero political imagination is reason why there is no alternative.
Must be very frustrating for Mrs May. You can't but admire her patience. She's been telling the children for yonks that There Is No Alternative and that the only way to avoid No Deal is to, err, back the deal that is available. And yet we have to go through this charade yet again.
Or remain, of course. Odd that you forgot that option.
How would remain or a second referendum make it through the house?
Am I right in saying that with Cooper/Grieve's amendments falling, if Brady's amendment passes and the EU refuses to reopen the WA, then the Remainers in parliament will have no choice but to vote for May's deal to avoid No Deal?
One thing is clear tonight -we are leaving one way or another. Remain is finished
I mean this is obviously not the case.
There is definitely no majority for it in Parliament. I'd expect a second ref amendment to get voted down by an even bigger margin than these two.
Doesn’t matter. No Deal is simply not an option.
On the contrary, it is the default option and Parliament has just reaffirmed that tonight.
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
He happens to be correct. Merely because it is an option you and I don't want to see taken doesn't mean it isn't what's going to happen unless a positive decision is taken for another course of action.
I just don’t believe that the adults in Parliament will allow it to happen in the end. It just would be career suicide to oversee the collapse it would entail.
Am I right in saying that with Cooper/Grieve's amendments falling, if Brady's amendment passes and the EU refuses to reopen the WA, then the Remainers in parliament will have no choice but to vote for May's deal to avoid No Deal?
They can still vote to call May's bluff and push her to the edge of the cliff.
One thing is clear tonight -we are leaving one way or another. Remain is finished
I mean this is obviously not the case.
There is definitely no majority for it in Parliament. I'd expect a second ref amendment to get voted down by an even bigger margin than these two.
Doesn’t matter. No Deal is simply not an option.
On the contrary, it is the default option and Parliament has just reaffirmed that tonight.
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
He happens to be correct. Merely because it is an option you and I don't want to see taken doesn't mean it isn't what's going to happen unless a positive decision is taken for another course of action.
I just don’t believe that the adults in Parliament
Am I right in saying that with Cooper/Grieve's amendments falling, if Brady's amendment passes and the EU refuses to reopen the WA, then the Remainers in parliament will have no choice but to vote for May's deal to avoid No Deal?
Possibly...but feel May's deal (and the EU deal) as it was is dead.
Edit: But it may rise like a Phoenix from the ashes, or like a zombie..
I've been saying for a while that No Deal was a 75%-80% chance of happening, I think I was lowballing it.
Do you not think that at the last moment the goverment might blink? Obviously they have to pretend they won't, but I find it hard to believe they are sanguine about crashing out.
Am I right in saying that with Cooper/Grieve's amendments falling, if Brady's amendment passes and the EU refuses to reopen the WA, then the Remainers in parliament will have no choice but to vote for May's deal to avoid No Deal?
May needs to bring another Meaningful Vote again in two weeks. If/when she loses that by another thumping majority, the whole cycle repeats.
Maybe displacement activity as performance art isn't quite as popular as Cooper thought.
Her amendment was prima facie absurd. I'm glad it's dead.
Sure, but we're still no closer to an outcome, even if the Brady amendment passes. How long before they are back to voting on the vanilla deal? And if that, whynot redoing something else?
One thing is clear tonight -we are leaving one way or another. Remain is finished
I mean this is obviously not the case.
There is definitely no majority for it in Parliament. I'd expect a second ref amendment to get voted down by an even bigger margin than these two.
Doesn’t matter. No Deal is simply not an option.
On the contrary, it is the default option and Parliament has just reaffirmed that tonight.
Yep. We are crashing out.
There is no way the EU will renegotiate the backstop into some kind of meaningless crap about IT generated non border checks.
Thanks Tories and Northern Labour MPs. You own No Deal Brexit now.
Good luck...
What struck me most about the later Brady amendments and the Malthouse plan is that it seemed like it was moving further from something they EU might accept. I know the EU don't want a time limit at all, but say one was proposed of 10 years as a the price for ending this shambles, it'd probably still fail but it looked at least plausible to me. I looked at the Malthouse plan and it looked like a confusing mess.
Am I right in saying that with Cooper/Grieve's amendments falling, if Brady's amendment passes and the EU refuses to reopen the WA, then the Remainers in parliament will have no choice but to vote for May's deal to avoid No Deal?
Possibly...but feel May's deal (and the EU deal) as it was is dead.
Personally, I think the Deselection Hammer is going to start bearing down on quite a few of the Labour rebels, so if there's a future vote on extending A50 then I think it could be closer - but, to get a majority, it will need significant numbers of Tory MPs, and expecting them to have the guts to do it is the biggest "unicorn" of all.
Do you seriously think it will pass with Cooper/Grieve failing this evening ?
No chance.
Yes, it was withdrawn because it wouldn't pass this evening. That doesn't mean it hasn't a chance when the stakes are higher in Meaningful Vote: the sequel.
Am I right in saying that with Cooper/Grieve's amendments falling, if Brady's amendment passes and the EU refuses to reopen the WA, then the Remainers in parliament will have no choice but to vote for May's deal to avoid No Deal?
Yes but the Brady amendment is irrelevant as the EU will reject it, if May's Deal is to pass it will be as is with the backstop
Must be very frustrating for Mrs May. You can't but admire her patience. She's been telling the children for yonks that There Is No Alternative and that the only way to avoid No Deal is to, err, back the deal that is available. And yet we have to go through this charade yet again.
No. Talking to people like children and having zero political imagination is reason why there is no alternative.
It really isn't. The reason there is no alternative is that in accordance with the Lisbon Treaty and after a two-year negotiation the UK government and the EU have formally agreed a 500+ page Withdrawal Agreement which the EU aren't willing to change, as they've been telling anyone who asks for weeks. Perhaps in some parallel universe there might have been a different Withdrawal Agreement, but it's not obvious how or why, and it ain't available in this universe.
Am I right in saying that with Cooper/Grieve's amendments falling, if Brady's amendment passes and the EU refuses to reopen the WA, then the Remainers in parliament will have no choice but to vote for May's deal to avoid No Deal?
They can still vote to call May's bluff and push her to the edge of the cliff.
To what end, there is no majority for any kind of remain option in Parliament. Wollaston decided not to even bother tabling the second referendum amendment because it would only get a 150 or so votes.
Comments
For 298
Against 321
Cooper also fails, 3 MPs who voted for Grieve abstained on the Cooper vote
No chance.
Don’t want to be forced to have to drink boxed wine in a couple of months....
There is no point claiming you are opposed to a ‘no deal’ Brexit if you are not prepared to will the legal means to stop it happening. Non-binding motions are not the same as legally binding laws. The Cooper and Grieve amendments addressed this. A bad day for Parliament.
Awwwww….. poor Chuka...demanding that Parliament should run things, then moan when the loss is there.
If the EU wants to avoid no deal they can agree to the stipulations of the Brady amendment.
Her amendment was prima facie absurd. I'm glad it's dead.
There is no way the EU will renegotiate the backstop into some kind of meaningless crap about IT generated non border checks.
Thanks Tories and Northern Labour MPs. You own No Deal Brexit now.
Good luck...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/29/amendments-to-may-statement-brexit-bill
Ayes 290
Nos 322
I still think no deal isn't going to happen and therefore there is considerable medium term upside on £/$
They draw lots to see who stands which side. We know the result the minute they stand in front of the speaker.
Edit: But it may rise like a Phoenix from the ashes, or like a zombie..
One assumes that it’s polite to communicate what you’re doing to the tellers, so as not to mess up their tallies.
Nothing Has Changed.