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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » TMay’s problem is that the vast majority of voters, including leavers, are not happy bunnies about Brexit

Looking at this latest YouGov polling it really is quite remarkable how people feel about brexit. I suppose a lot of it is just simply exhaustion with each days news being totally dominated by the issue, something that has been going on for years it seems.

Read the full story here

MarqueeMark

First (although, probably not)

TheScreamingEagles

Sloppy seconds.

blueblue

We're doing a damned stupid thing in a damned stupid way ... who exactly is going to be happy about it?

dixiedean

Second. Like the likely length of time of any re negotiations of the backstop.

Fourth even.

Pulpstar

Has Ollie Letwin saved the pound yet ?

kle4

Richard_Tyndall said:

kle4 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Charles said:

rpjs said:

notme2 said:

SouthamObserver said:

notme2 said:

SouthamObserver said:

It is all about the blame game now, isn't it?

The Tories undoubtedly hope the EU will be blamed for No Deal. And maybe the EU will be. But it is not very clear how that actually helps us deal with a No Deal. So, what is the plan?

It is also pretty clear that when we do depart Ireland will not do anything to change the border. That will help Ireland, of course. But how does it help us? Our problems are not there, but elsewhere in all kinds of ways.

In short, a No Deal departure puts us in an even weaker negotiating position than we are now.

Wonderful!

If the only thing that stops a deal happening is the refusal to not make the backstop a permanent feature of the agreement, then quite rightly the EU will be to blame.

They screwed down a deal, used their unity to give us a punishment beating. And the British Parliament said no. Too cocky by half.

Bring it on.

Yep, bring it on. And then what?

We are buggered, but it will bugger them also (to a lesser extent). I dont want a no deal, but the EU is not acting reasonably by expecting a backstop in perpetuity. A compromise or fudge is a crowning feature of most of what the EU does.

But the backstospeaks volumes.

It’s subject to EU approval of the technological solution. As with so much here it’s a lack of trust that’s the issue. And if you don’t trust your partner a deal can’t work

And yet the one person on all sides who has played with an absolutely straight bat at all times in this whole process is Barnier.

That's great. He was supposed to help to get a deal though. Drafting a deal, as May could tell him, doesn't win you any prizes.

It is not Barnier who made a mess of the UK negotiating position. If May didn't think she could get her deal through she should not have agreed to it. The fact that she did agree to it makes it reasonable that Barnier she then expect that meant she could get it through Parliament. It was not his job to babysit the British side of the negotiation.

I'm not saying it was, I'm just saying his playing with a straight bat or not, and being honest about his inflexibility, doesn't matter if no outcome is obtained. Frankly I don't give a crap who's fault it is. Being smug and superior about how much of a mess our position has been doesn't make no deal any better for them.

OblitusSumMe

Is any radio station carrying the debate/following the divisions?

If I'm going to be unhappy about this I may as well listen to the details.

Sandpit

OblitusSumMe said:

Is any radio station carrying the debate/following the divisions?

If I'm going to be unhappy about this I may as well listen to the details.

There’s an audio and video stream at https://parliamentlive.tv

bigjohnowls

Nandy voting for Cooper

No way TND 30 is going to materialise if Nandy voting for i thought she would abstain.

Floater

Turns out the blood donor story has been shut down already

kle4

Should May just stand aside and let Cooper be PM right now?

OblitusSumMe

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside and let Cooper be PM right now?

If the Cooper amendment passes and the Brady amendment falls, then it seems clear where the confidence of the House on matters Brexit lies.

Big_G_NorthWales

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside and let Cooper be PM right now?

First stage is to get Corbyn to stand aside for her

Pulpstar

I'd imagine any Labour abstentions/votes against will come from this lot:

https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/Divisions/Details/575#notrecorded

So yes, Nandy is a scalp for Cooper.

Danny565

bigjohnowls said:

Nandy voting for Cooper

No way TND 30 is going to materialise if Nandy voting for i thought she would abstain.

I think 30 is too much, but there only needs to be about half that for the vote to fall, I think. Cooper's last amendment on No Deal was only carried by a majority of 7, so it only needs a few Labour MPs who voted for that one to get cold feet this time, and of course all those Tory ministers who were assuring the press they'd resign in order to stop No Deal have (predictably) bottled it now that it's come to the crunch.

gypsumfantastic

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside and let Cooper be PM right now?

In the race for "whose displacement activity is most displacement-y" competition, Cooper's plan to Nothing Has Changed our way all the way till Christmas is by far the most fulsome.

Peter_the_Punter

kle4 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

kle4 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Charles said:

rpjs said:

notme2 said:

SouthamObserver said:

notme2 said:

SouthamObserver said:

It is all about the blame game now, isn't it?

The Tories undoubtedly hope the EU will be blamed for No Deal. And maybe the EU will be. But it is not very clear how that actually helps us deal with a No Deal. So, what is the plan?

It is also pretty clear that when we do depart Ireland will not do anything to change the border. That will help Ireland, of course. But how does it help us? Our problems are not there, but elsewhere in all kinds of ways.

In short, a No Deal departure puts us in an even weaker negotiating position than we are now.

Wonderful!

If the only thing that stops a deal happening is the refusal to not make the backstop a permanent feature of the agreement, then quite rightly the EU will be to blame.

They screwed down a deal, used their unity to give us a punishment beating. And the British Parliament said no. Too cocky by half.

Bring it on.

Yep, bring it on. And then what?

We are buggered, but it will bugger them also (to a lesser extent). I dont want a no deal, but the EU is not acting reasonably by expecting a backstop in perpetuity. A compromise or fudge is a crowning feature of most of what the EU does.

But the backstospeaks volumes.

It’s subject to EU approval of the technological solution. As with so much here it’s a lack of trust that’s the issue. And if you don’t trust your partner a deal can’t work

And yet the one person on all sides who has played with an absolutely straight bat at all times in this whole process is Barnier.

That's great. He was supposed to help to get a deal though. Drafting a deal, as May could tell him, doesn't win you any prizes.

at meant she could get it through Parliament. It was not his job to babysit the British side of the negotiation.

I'm not saying it was, I'm just saying his playing with a straight bat or not, and being honest about his inflexibility, doesn't matter if no outcome is obtained. Frankly I don't give a crap who's fault it is. Being smug and superior about how much of a mess our position has been doesn't make no deal any better for them.

One of the main revelations of last night's excellent BBC programme on the subject was the genuine sadness amongst the EU representatives when the referendum result came through. I was also surprised at just how much flexibility that had shown in their negotiations with Cameron. They were genuinely trying to help him.

Philip_Thompson

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside

Let me stop you there with a yes.

If she doesn't win today's votes she should resign. The PM needs to be someone who can command the confidence of the house.

MikeSmithson

Thank goodness there's a full night of Premier League football.

Philip_Thompson

Pulpstar said:

I'd imagine any Labour abstentions/votes against will come from this lot:

https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/Divisions/Details/575#notrecorded

So yes, Nandy is a scalp for Cooper.

Odd list. I count 74 Labour MPs including Cooper herself, Keir Starmer and Tom Watson.

brokenwheel

Philip_Thompson said:

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside

Let me stop you there with a yes.

If she doesn't win today's votes she should resign. The PM needs to be someone who can command the confidence of the house.

And that would be...?

Big_G_NorthWales

Philip_Thompson said:

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside

Let me stop you there with a yes.

If she doesn't win today's votes she should resign. The PM needs to be someone who can command the confidence of the house.

She has just won her party leadership and a vnoc on the government.

Who do you suggest can win the confidence of the house

Peter_the_Punter

MikeSmithson said:

Thank goodness there's a full night of Premier League football.

Burnley at Old Trafford? You sure you wouldn't prefer to watch the Brexit debate, Mike?

Roger

Yvette Cooper is bright sharp and appealing. The contrast with Graham Brady -known by his electors in Hale as 'Thicko'-couldn't be more pronounced

AndyJS

Still 4.8.

https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.130766060

TheScreamingEagles

brokenwheel said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside

Let me stop you there with a yes.

If she doesn't win today's votes she should resign. The PM needs to be someone who can command the confidence of the house.

And that would be...?

Kenneth Clarke.

Philip_Thompson

brokenwheel said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside

Let me stop you there with a yes.

If she doesn't win today's votes she should resign. The PM needs to be someone who can command the confidence of the house.

And that would be...?

We will find out then. Just as we generally do after previous PMs have resigned after losing the confidence of the house. My vote would be for Gove.

Stereotomy

Remember the before-times? When politics was about issues and policies, rather than an endless, winding Tory psychodrama?

Big_G_NorthWales

Roger said:

Yvette Cooper is bright sharp and appealing. The contrast with Graham Brady -known by his electors in Hale as 'Thicko'-couldn't be more pronounced

I had dealings with Cooper over HIPS and she had not got a clue

Mind you, she is vastly better than Corbyn

AndyJS

Roger said:

Yvette Cooper is bright sharp and appealing. The contrast with Graham Brady -known by his electors in Hale as 'Thicko'-couldn't be more pronounced

She was the obvious choice for leader in 2015 in terms of being able to win a general election, (something Labour has achieved 3 times in the last 40 years). Labour members thought otherwise.

Philip_Thompson

Stereotomy said:

Remember the before-times? When politics was about issues and policies, rather than an endless, winding Tory psychodrama?

No.

Then again I was only born in 1982.

TheScreamingEagles

Stereotomy said:

Remember the before-times? When politics was about issues and policies, rather than an endless, winding Tory psychodrama?

You mean like the mass murder of 600,000 Iraqis or the psychodrama of Gordon Brown wanting to know when Blair would hand over to Brown?

Barnesian

Caroline Lucas has just used my "pointing a gun at your own head" analogy.

EDIT: Here it is again in full

My analogy is a person pointing a gun at their own head and threatening to pull the trigger and spatter the other side with blood if they don't get their own way. They are probably bluffing but they might not be, or might accidentally pull the trigger, particularly as some who are not in the line of fire are egging them on. Letwin believes it is reckless behaviour and not to be tolerated.

kle4

TheScreamingEagles said:

brokenwheel said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside

Let me stop you there with a yes.

If she doesn't win today's votes she should resign. The PM needs to be someone who can command the confidence of the house.

And that would be...?

Kenneth Clarke.

It makes sense. Yes, he's an ardent remainer, but he has proven that does not prevent him from compromising on his own preferred option, he's respected, and would surely only be interim.

TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/carldinnen/status/1090315687560658944

oxfordsimon

There is nothing bright or appealing about Cooper. There has been nothing in her career thus far that demonstrates any real political clue or conviction.

Never seen why she rose so high.

kle4

gypsumfantastic said:

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside and let Cooper be PM right now?

In the race for "whose displacement activity is most displacement-y" competition, Cooper's plan to Nothing Has Changed our way all the way till Christmas is by far the most fulsome.

Oh, I think her plan is terrible, but it may be what the House wants.

kle4

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/carldinnen/status/1090315687560658944

So. stop. trying.

Philip_Thompson

TheScreamingEagles said:

Stereotomy said:

Remember the before-times? When politics was about issues and policies, rather than an endless, winding Tory psychodrama?

You mean like the mass murder of 600,000 Iraqis or the psychodrama of Gordon Brown wanting to know when Blair would hand over to Brown?

Like there weren't endless Tory psychodrama then too? The party elected and sacked IDS in that time for Pete's sake.

How old would you need to be to remember before endless Tory psychodrama? 40s at least I imagine.

Stereotomy

TheScreamingEagles said:

Stereotomy said:

Remember the before-times? When politics was about issues and policies, rather than an endless, winding Tory psychodrama?

You mean like the mass murder of 600,000 Iraqis or the psychodrama of Gordon Brown wanting to know when Blair would hand over to Brown?

Not sure what your point is with Iraq, I'd certainly never defend that. The Blair/Brown drama does have a pretty similar feeling, but at least that was a sort of subplot, rather than politics endlessly being about nothing else

Peter_the_Punter

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Roger said:

Yvette Cooper is bright sharp and appealing. The contrast with Graham Brady -known by his electors in Hale as 'Thicko'-couldn't be more pronounced

I had dealings with Cooper over HIPS and she had not got a clue

Mind you, she is vastly better than Corbyn

She was once a prolific contributor here on PB. If Roger had smooched up to her then, how differently things might have worked out!

AndyJS

There's a lot of heat in this Commons debate but not much light.

TheScreamingEagles

kle4 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

brokenwheel said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside

Let me stop you there with a yes.

If she doesn't win today's votes she should resign. The PM needs to be someone who can command the confidence of the house.

And that would be...?

Kenneth Clarke.

It makes sense. Yes, he's an ardent remainer, but he has proven that does not prevent him from compromising on his own preferred option, he's respected, and would surely only be interim.

He's been a very successful Secretary of State at Health, Education, Home, and Justice as well being the finest Chancellor of my lifetime.

He knows how to get stuff done in government.

kle4

AndyJS said:

There's a lot of heat in this Commons debate but not much light.

Excellent, it is a chilly night ahead.

Philip_Thompson

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/carldinnen/status/1090315687560658944

Can't you say the exact same thing about Varadkar and Barnier?

Philip_Thompson

Peter_the_Punter said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Roger said:

Yvette Cooper is bright sharp and appealing. The contrast with Graham Brady -known by his electors in Hale as 'Thicko'-couldn't be more pronounced

I had dealings with Cooper over HIPS and she had not got a clue

Mind you, she is vastly better than Corbyn

She was once a prolific contributor here on PB. If Roger had smooched up to her then, how differently things might have worked out!

When was that?

matt

Roger said:

Yvette Cooper is bright sharp and appealing. The contrast with Graham Brady -known by his electors in Hale as 'Thicko'-couldn't be more pronounced

The only thing she did in government was the incompetence that was HIPS. Sharpness has obviously come late. By way of balance, I was at university with one of the politicians seen as an intellectual father of Brexit. I assume that competition is low or he was a very, very late developer.

AndyJS

There's someone on the Labour front bench who looks very similar to the singer Elkie Brooks but I don't know who it is.

Recidivist

Brexit is a journey, not a destination.

Peter_the_Punter

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

brokenwheel said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside

Let me stop you there with a yes.

If she doesn't win today's votes she should resign. The PM needs to be someone who can command the confidence of the house.

And that would be...?

Kenneth Clarke.

It makes sense. Yes, he's an ardent remainer, but he has proven that does not prevent him from compromising on his own preferred option, he's respected, and would surely only be interim.

He's been a very successful Secretary of State at Health, Education, Home, and Justice as well being the finest Chancellor of my lifetime.

He knows how to get stuff done in government.

He's the outstanding Parliamentarian of my lifetime.

kle4

Recidivist said:

Brexit is a journey, not a destination.

Possibly a circular journey.

Richard_Nabavi

Peter_the_Punter said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

brokenwheel said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside

Let me stop you there with a yes.

If she doesn't win today's votes she should resign. The PM needs to be someone who can command the confidence of the house.

And that would be...?

Kenneth Clarke.

It makes sense. Yes, he's an ardent remainer, but he has proven that does not prevent him from compromising on his own preferred option, he's respected, and would surely only be interim.

He's been a very successful Secretary of State at Health, Education, Home, and Justice as well being the finest Chancellor of my lifetime.

He knows how to get stuff done in government.

He's the outstanding Parliamentarian of my lifetime.

Ooh, big claim!

I don't necessarily disagree, but people might counter with Robin Cook, to name but one.

TheScreamingEagles

kle4 said:

Recidivist said:

Brexit is a journey, not a destination.

Possibly a circular journey.

Indeed.

The sooner we Leave (with No Deal) the sooner we rejoin.

Alanbrooke

Richard_Nabavi said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

brokenwheel said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside

Let me stop you there with a yes.

If she doesn't win today's votes she should resign. The PM needs to be someone who can command the confidence of the house.

And that would be...?

Kenneth Clarke.

It makes sense. Yes, he's an ardent remainer, but he has proven that does not prevent him from compromising on his own preferred option, he's respected, and would surely only be interim.

He's been a very successful Secretary of State at Health, Education, Home, and Justice as well being the finest Chancellor of my lifetime.

He knows how to get stuff done in government.

He's the outstanding Parliamentarian of my lifetime.

Ooh, big claim!

I don't necessarily disagree, but people might counter with Robin Cook, to name but one.

based on ?

Charles

Barnesian said:

Caroline Lucas has just used my "pointing a gun at your own head" analogy.

EDIT: Here it is again in full

My analogy is a person pointing a gun at their own head and threatening to pull the trigger and spatter the other side with blood if they don't get their own way. They are probably bluffing but they might not be, or might accidentally pull the trigger, particularly as some who are not in the line of fire are egging them on. Letwin believes it is reckless behaviour and not to be tolerated.

A little tasteless given yesterday’s news

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.wsbradio.com/news/national/louis-police-officer-killed-colleague-died-during-game-russian-roulette-authorities-say/AX8aiSm1zLKen8wXgrlUWO/amp.html

ab195

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

brokenwheel said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside

Let me stop you there with a yes.

If she doesn't win today's votes she should resign. The PM needs to be someone who can command the confidence of the house.

And that would be...?

Kenneth Clarke.

It makes sense. Yes, he's an ardent remainer, but he has proven that does not prevent him from compromising on his own preferred option, he's respected, and would surely only be interim.

He's been a very successful Secretary of State at Health, Education, Home, and Justice as well being the finest Chancellor of my lifetime.

He knows how to get stuff done in government.

He made the NHS less efficient, degraded morale as Home Sec, and set the groundwork for destroying legal aid as Justice Sec. As Chancellor he was lucky, but had poor political judgement and inexplicably made fuel more expensive.

And I’m a Tory...

Roger

matt said:

Roger said:

Yvette Cooper is bright sharp and appealing. The contrast with Graham Brady -known by his electors in Hale as 'Thicko'-couldn't be more pronounced

The only thing she did in government was the incompetence that was HIPS. Sharpness has obviously come late. By way of balance, I was at university with one of the politicians seen as an intellectual father of Brexit. I assume that competition is low or he was a very, very late developer.

"The intellectual father of brexit"

Was there one?

TheScreamingEagles

Richard_Nabavi said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

brokenwheel said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside

Let me stop you there with a yes.

If she doesn't win today's votes she should resign. The PM needs to be someone who can command the confidence of the house.

And that would be...?

Kenneth Clarke.

It makes sense. Yes, he's an ardent remainer, but he has proven that does not prevent him from compromising on his own preferred option, he's respected, and would surely only be interim.

He's been a very successful Secretary of State at Health, Education, Home, and Justice as well being the finest Chancellor of my lifetime.

He knows how to get stuff done in government.

He's the outstanding Parliamentarian of my lifetime.

Ooh, big claim!

I don't necessarily disagree, but people might counter with Robin Cook, to name but one.

Ken's been doing his Parliamentary stuff for nearly 50 years and never let us down.

matt

Alanbrooke said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

brokenwheel said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside

Let me stop you there with a yes.

If she doesn't win today's votes she should resign. The PM needs to be someone who can command the confidence of the house.

And that would be...?

Kenneth Clarke.

It makes sense. Yes, he's an ardent remainer, but he has proven that does not prevent him from compromising on his own preferred option, he's respected, and would surely only be interim.

He's been a very successful Secretary of State at Health, Education, Home, and Justice as well being the finest Chancellor of my lifetime.

He knows how to get stuff done in government.

He's the outstanding Parliamentarian of my lifetime.

Ooh, big claim!

I don't necessarily disagree, but people might counter with Robin Cook, to name but one.

based on ?

His ability to overcome his deficiencies (ginger, face like a shrivelled scrotum) to be an accomplished shagger?

Dadge

What are the odds on all 7 amendments being defeated?

Alanbrooke

Roger said:

matt said:

Roger said:

Yvette Cooper is bright sharp and appealing. The contrast with Graham Brady -known by his electors in Hale as 'Thicko'-couldn't be more pronounced

The only thing she did in government was the incompetence that was HIPS. Sharpness has obviously come late. By way of balance, I was at university with one of the politicians seen as an intellectual father of Brexit. I assume that competition is low or he was a very, very late developer.

"The intellectual father of brexit"

Was there one?

Peter Mandelson

Richard_Nabavi

TheScreamingEagles said:

Ken's been doing his Parliamentary stuff for nearly 50 years and never let us down.

Yes, and he was a superb Health Sec and Chancellor. Definitely one of the outstanding politicians of the last 50 years.

But PtP specifically said 'the outstanding parliamentarian', which is slightly different.

AndyJS

Starmer: delay of A50 inevitable.

Mortimer

AndyJS said:

There's someone on the Labour front bench who looks very similar to the singer Elkie Brooks but I don't know who it is.

I'm not watching, but could be Jenny Chapman?

HYUFD

John Rentoul predicts the Brady amendment will be defeated, he earlier predicted the Cooper amendment will pass

https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1090276755871547397

kle4

AndyJS said:

Starmer: delay of A50 inevitable.

Yes, probably. Why does that mean they need to delay before they make a decision?

Philip_Thompson

Richard_Nabavi said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

brokenwheel said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside

Let me stop you there with a yes.

If she doesn't win today's votes she should resign. The PM needs to be someone who can command the confidence of the house.

And that would be...?

Kenneth Clarke.

It makes sense. Yes, he's an ardent remainer, but he has proven that does not prevent him from compromising on his own preferred option, he's respected, and would surely only be interim.

He's been a very successful Secretary of State at Health, Education, Home, and Justice as well being the finest Chancellor of my lifetime.

He knows how to get stuff done in government.

He's the outstanding Parliamentarian of my lifetime.

Ooh, big claim!

I don't necessarily disagree, but people might counter with Robin Cook, to name but one.

Besides a memorable resignation how much did Cook achieve?

Tissue_Price

HYUFD said:

John Rentoul predicts the Brady amendment will be defeated, he earlier predicted the Cooper amendment will pass

https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1090276755871547397

Betfair thinks he's wrong on both counts.

dr_spyn

Barnesian said:

Caroline Lucas has just used my "pointing a gun at your own head" analogy.

EDIT: Here it is again in full

My analogy is a person pointing a gun at their own head and threatening to pull the trigger and spatter the other side with blood if they don't get their own way. They are probably bluffing but they might not be, or might accidentally pull the trigger, particularly as some who are not in the line of fire are egging them on. Letwin believes it is reckless behaviour and not

Barnesian said:

Caroline Lucas has just used my "pointing a gun at your own head" analogy.

EDIT: Here it is again in full

My analogy is a person pointing a gun at their own head and threatening to pull the trigger and spatter the other side with blood if they don't get their own way. They are probably bluffing but thto be tolerated.

ey might not be, or might accidentally pull the trigger, particularly as some who are not in the line of fire are egging them on. Letwin believes it is reckless behaviour and not

For she rode a blazing saddle
She wore a shining star
She conquered fear and she conquered hate and she turned dark night into day for
She rode a blazing saddle a torch to light the way

Philip_Thompson

I've yet to see anyone explain what Cooper's proposal actually achieves other than kicking the can past the EU elections. We will still face a deadline with no deal as a default.

Deals are only reached at the 11th hour with the EU. Nothing will change through Cooper besides give us more months of this without the ticking clock putting pressure on to reach a compromise.

dixiedean

This Stephen Barclay is not great, is he?

Philip_Thompson

Should we expect the results of the Corbyn amendment at 7.15 then next one at 7.30 etc?

Benpointer

dixiedean said:

This Stephen Barclay is not great, is he?

No

Alanbrooke

Philip_Thompson said:

I've yet to see anyone explain what Cooper's proposal actually achieves other than kicking the can past the EU elections. We will still face a deadline with no deal as a default.

Deals are only reached at the 11th hour with the EU. Nothing will change through Cooper besides give us more months of this without the ticking clock putting pressure on to reach a compromise.

unless both sides are going to use the time to do more preparation for a no deal its simply political micawberism

Mortimer

Philip_Thompson said:

I've yet to see anyone explain what Cooper's proposal actually achieves other than kicking the can past the EU elections. We will still face a deadline with no deal as a default.

Deals are only reached at the 11th hour with the EU. Nothing will change through Cooper besides give us more months of this without the ticking clock putting pressure on to reach a compromise.

One thing that has really surprised me since the referendum is the unwillingness of politicians to take power back from Brussels. I thought they'd jump at the chance....

Scrapheap_as_was

TheScreamingEagles said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

brokenwheel said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside

Let me stop you there with a yes.

If she doesn't win today's votes she should resign. The PM needs to be someone who can command the confidence of the house.

And that would be...?

Kenneth Clarke.

It makes sense. Yes, he's an ardent remainer, but he has proven that does not prevent him from compromising on his own preferred option, he's respected, and would surely only be interim.

He's been a very successful Secretary of State at Health, Education, Home, and Justice as well being the finest Chancellor of my lifetime.

He knows how to get stuff done in government.

He's the outstanding Parliamentarian of my lifetime.

Ooh, big claim!

I don't necessarily disagree, but people might counter with Robin Cook, to name but one.

Ken's been doing his Parliamentary stuff for nearly 50 years and never let us down.

gets my unbiased vote

Barnesian

Philip_Thompson said:

Should we expect the results of the Corbyn amendment at 7.15 then next one at 7.30 etc?

Yes I think so.

Peter_the_Punter

Richard_Nabavi said:

Peter_the_Punter said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

brokenwheel said:

Philip_Thompson said:

kle4 said:

Should May just stand aside

Let me stop you there with a yes.

If she doesn't win today's votes she should resign. The PM needs to be someone who can command the confidence of the house.

And that would be...?

Kenneth Clarke.

It makes sense. Yes, he's an ardent remainer, but he has proven that does not prevent him from compromising on his own preferred option, he's respected, and would surely only be interim.

He's been a very successful Secretary of State at Health, Education, Home, and Justice as well being the finest Chancellor of my lifetime.

He knows how to get stuff done in government.

He's the outstanding Parliamentarian of my lifetime.

Ooh, big claim!

I don't necessarily disagree, but people might counter with Robin Cook, to name but one.

His Arms to Iraq speech made him a legend. I'll give you his contemporary Malcolm Rifkind too, but will stick with Clarke myself.

By comparison, what do we have today? Bleeding pigmies, mate.

AndyJS

Mortimer said:

AndyJS said:

There's someone on the Labour front bench who looks very similar to the singer Elkie Brooks but I don't know who it is.

I'm not watching, but could be Jenny Chapman?

Yes it could be, thanks.

Jonathan

Mortimer said:

Philip_Thompson said:

I've yet to see anyone explain what Cooper's proposal actually achieves other than kicking the can past the EU elections. We will still face a deadline with no deal as a default.

Deals are only reached at the 11th hour with the EU. Nothing will change through Cooper besides give us more months of this without the ticking clock putting pressure on to reach a compromise.

One thing that has really surprised me since the referendum is the unwillingness of politicians to take power back from Brussels. I thought they'd jump at the chance....

I guess they don’t want to preside over whatever’s left in the aftermath of Brexit and think they have more power working with others.

bigjohnowls

Tissue_Price said:

HYUFD said:

John Rentoul predicts the Brady amendment will be defeated, he earlier predicted the Cooper amendment will pass

https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1090276755871547397

Betfair thinks he's wrong on both counts.

Just took 2.26 on Cooper passing

dr_spyn

What is the point of electing MPs, if they devolve hard decisions to an undefined Citizens' Assembly?

https://twitter.com/stellacreasy/status/1090321148347383808

This proposal is barking.

Mortimer

AndyJS said:

Mortimer said:

AndyJS said:

There's someone on the Labour front bench who looks very similar to the singer Elkie Brooks but I don't know who it is.

I'm not watching, but could be Jenny Chapman?

Yes it could be, thanks.

Pleasure. Thanks for responding to my question about the supposed surprising poll over the weekend, btw.

Andrew

Betfair markets low liquidity, but for what it's worth they're currently ....

Cooper 44%
Brady 70%

Big_G_NorthWales

bigjohnowls said:

Tissue_Price said:

HYUFD said:

John Rentoul predicts the Brady amendment will be defeated, he earlier predicted the Cooper amendment will pass

https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1090276755871547397

Betfair thinks he's wrong on both counts.

Just took 2.26 on Cooper passing

I expect it to pass

Barnesian

Charles said:

Barnesian said:

Caroline Lucas has just used my "pointing a gun at your own head" analogy.

EDIT: Here it is again in full

My analogy is a person pointing a gun at their own head and threatening to pull the trigger and spatter the other side with blood if they don't get their own way. They are probably bluffing but they might not be, or might accidentally pull the trigger, particularly as some who are not in the line of fire are egging them on. Letwin believes it is reckless behaviour and not to be tolerated.

A little tasteless given yesterday’s news

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.wsbradio.com/news/national/louis-police-officer-killed-colleague-died-during-game-russian-roulette-authorities-say/AX8aiSm1zLKen8wXgrlUWO/amp.html

A little tasteless to go searching for that story to try undermine an important issue here in parliament.

kle4

dr_spyn said:

What is the point of electing MPs, if they devolve hard decisions to an undefined Citizens' Assembly?

https://twitter.com/stellacreasy/status/1090321148347383808

This proposal is barking.

It seems designed to make other proposals look less silly. If she wants to outsource her own job that's her business, no need to involve us.

bigjohnowls

Pathetic Performance by Barclay might swing a few votes??

MarqueeMark

The role of Govt. in this is quite horrifying. Trashing businesses. Started 2008, on Labour's watch. Carried on through the Coalition, so no party political point-scoring.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47047699

Benpointer

Does anyone have a link to the 7? amendments to be voted on tonight please?

TheWhiteRabbit

Who are the Brady fans outside the gov't "usual" majority?

HYUFD

Tissue_Price said:

HYUFD said:

John Rentoul predicts the Brady amendment will be defeated, he earlier predicted the Cooper amendment will pass

https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1090276755871547397

Betfair thinks he's wrong on both counts.

Rentoul has crunched the numbers in quite some detail in his tweets, Betfair is guesswork

Roger

Alanbrooke said:

Roger said:

matt said:

Roger said:

Yvette Cooper is bright sharp and appealing. The contrast with Graham Brady -known by his electors in Hale as 'Thicko'-couldn't be more pronounced

The only thing she did in government was the incompetence that was HIPS. Sharpness has obviously come late. By way of balance, I was at university with one of the politicians seen as an intellectual father of Brexit. I assume that competition is low or he was a very, very late developer.

"The intellectual father of brexit"

Was there one?

Peter Mandelson

I thought it was the monkey

HYUFD

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Who are the Brady fans outside the gov't "usual" majority?

Nobody bar the DUP, Hopkins, Mann and Hoey according to Rentoul plus the Government will also lose Redwood and hardline Brexiteers and ultra Remainers like Soubry who are also voting against Brady

TheWhiteRabbit

bigjohnowls said:

Pathetic Performance by Barclay might swing a few votes??

kinda assumes the government wants to win its vote

stodge

Peter_the_Punter said:

His Arms to Iraq speech made him a legend. I'll give you his contemporary Malcolm Rifkind too, but will stick with Clarke myself.

By comparison, what do we have today? Bleeding pigmies, mate.

Yes, hard to argue with either Ken Clarke or Robin Cook. On my shortlist I'd also have Tony Benn and Enoch Powell as Parliamentarians.

From the Liberal side Jo Grimond and Russell Johnston. I'd also add Gerry Fitt.

bigjohnowls

Cooper to pass

Well Betfair offered 2,32 so I took that too

-174 or +236

MarqueeMark

dr_spyn said:

What is the point of electing MPs, if they devolve hard decisions to an undefined Citizens' Assembly?

https://twitter.com/stellacreasy/status/1090321148347383808

This proposal is barking.

I'm sure she'll be donating her salary to said Citizens.

No?

TGOHF

HYUFD said:

Tissue_Price said:

HYUFD said:

John Rentoul predicts the Brady amendment will be defeated, he earlier predicted the Cooper amendment will pass

https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1090276755871547397

Betfair thinks he's wrong on both counts.

Rentoul has crunched the numbers in quite some detail in his tweets, Betfair is guesswork

Any cabinet ministers supporting Cooper ?

kle4

Benpointer said:

Does anyone have a link to the 7? amendments to be voted on tonight please?

These?
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/parliament-next-steps-brexit

Also shows the nonselected ones.