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    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    Jonathan said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    Stock market soaring! Must be the possibility of a different approach to this Brexit loonacy.

    Just weak sterling pushing up shares which report in USD and EUR.
    Tories used to like weak Sterling. Not today.
    I do.

    We need to rebalance the economy and that's the only way its going to happen.
    It needs intervention before breakfast, lunch and dinner.
    (c) Michael Heseltine.

    As practised by pre-1979 One Nation Tories and Old Labour.
    Sod this 40 years of nonsense that 'the market will provide'. Look at the housing crisis, for one.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    Marta Vokshi‏ @marta_vokshi

    Date when Brexit negotiations start is now "unclear" says @ManfredWeber chair of Merkel's allied CSU
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,011
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Theresa hanging around would lead to her ratings plummeting into Francois Hollande territory.

    She could also take the Tories with her.

    She needs to to go.

    LOL it's hilarious that everytime the public was exposed to her more her ratings crashed. All the marginal constituencies she visited rejected her party LMAO :lol:
    Not quite, the Tories won Middlesbrough and Mansfield and every Scottish seat May visited
    May visited Edinburgh North and Leith and Edinburgh South West.
    She visited the borders and several other seats the Tories won
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Jonathan said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    Stock market soaring! Must be the possibility of a different approach to this Brexit loonacy.

    Just weak sterling pushing up shares which report in USD and EUR.
    Tories used to like weak Sterling. Not today.
    Am glad my brother bought dollars last week....
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,976

    If the DUP won't countenance special status for Northern Ireland in the EU, and they won't countenance a hard border with Ireland, then the cost of a deal will have to be that we forget any idea of leaving the single market and customs union.

    Mr Glenn, you may well be vindicated. Can't say I'm unhappy.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Can the Tories really work with the DUP? Concerning.

    Of course that is what the electorate have given us and Major managed it for years
    That wasn't the DUP
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,011
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    There's a real danger Labour's new voters don't realise they haven't actually won. The other danger is May not realising she's got no way back. She will go down in history as the PM who ended her own career totally unnecessarily and so suddenly. If history even remembers her

    She has been a total disaster. For the next 40 years she will be remembered. After that she'll just be a short footnote in the post EU history of the UK...
    She still got 44% of the vote, election stats nerds will record that as the best since Blair even though Corbyn made the biggest gains
    Currently on 42.4%
    Including NI, that would still be the highest Tory voteshare since 1987
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    HYUFD said:

    Actually I support Theresa May continuing as PM/Tory leader.

    Gives George time to find a seat and become an MP and fulfill his destiny to be Prime Minister

    If you think Osborne is the answer to stopping Corbyn you are asking the wrong question, Boris and Davidson are who the party needs, the electorate voted as much against continued austerity as May's social care plans

    Davidson hates Boris, who is actively harmful to the UK's interests.

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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,011

    HYUFD said:

    Actually I support Theresa May continuing as PM/Tory leader.

    Gives George time to find a seat and become an MP and fulfill his destiny to be Prime Minister

    If you think Osborne is the answer to stopping Corbyn you are asking the wrong question, Boris and Davidson are who the party needs, the electorate voted as much against continued austerity as May's social care plans
    God no, not Boris.

    People don't want the b-team's underperforming jester.
    People said the same about Corbyn, people want charisma and populism at the moment
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,128
    I'm a bit sceptical about the idea that youth turnout was the crucial factor. The most accurate projection was the big YouGov model, and that was based on turnout in 2010 and 2015.
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    archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    I congratulate the Labour and LD supporters on a great campaign and a great night. I am sure you are having fun right now.

    However, one thing seems to be overlooked. When the sun rises tomorrow, there will be a Tory Government.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,091

    The demand from the public is pretty clear that they now want more investment in public services. If the tories don't do that, and they can, then labour will.

    Better for the tories to do responsibly than labour to do it and wreck the economy.

    They want more investment in public services but they don't want to pay more tax to fund it.

    They want cheap houses to buy and expensive houses to inherit.

    They want no student fees and energy and transport subsidised.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Marta Vokshi‏ @marta_vokshi

    Date when Brexit negotiations start is now "unclear" says @ManfredWeber chair of Merkel's allied CSU

    The German election is in September which gives plenty of time for a Conservative leadership election.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Dura_Ace said:

    I see skies of blue and clouds of white
    The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night
    And I think to myself what a wonderful world.

    Seemed a harmless little fuck
    But we unleashed a lion
    Gnashed his teeth

    And bit the recessed lady's breast
    How could I forget
    He hit me with a surprise left
    My jaw left hurting

    Dropped wide open
    Just like the day
    Like the day I heard
    Daddy didn't give affection

    And the boy was something mommy wouldn't wear
    King Jeremy the wicked
    Ruled his world
    Jeremy spoke in class today
    Jeremy spoke in class today
    Line 7 "my jaw still hurting" perhaps? Two "lefts" doesn't really work

    Otherwise very good.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,472

    Actually I support Theresa May continuing as PM/Tory leader.

    Gives George time to find a seat and become an MP and fulfill his destiny to be Prime Minister

    And what does he do as PM ?

    Increase student fees ?
    Increase house prices ?
    Borrow more money to spend on vanity projects ?

    I've asked this of Osborne fans multiple times and I've never received an answer.

    So what would PM George Osborne do differently ?
    Offer strong and stable leadership with a long term economic plan.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    Okay, a couple of hours' sleep, and it till doesn't look any better.

    Seven Shinners and the Speaker mean the target is only 322, so she's six short. Ten DUP probably sees her over the line. Hopefully.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    At one stage Dimbleby made a plea for the Greens. Half a million votes and only one MP. Oh the infamy of it all! Think of the fuss if they'd polled eight times as many.
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    GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123

    The demand from the public is pretty clear that they now want more investment in public services. If the tories don't do that, and they can, then labour will.

    Better for the tories to do responsibly than labour to do it and wreck the economy.

    They want more investment in public services but they don't want to pay more tax to fund it.

    They want cheap houses to buy and expensive houses to inherit.

    They want no student fees and energy and transport subsidised.
    Yes they want socialism. So do they get Tory-lite socialism or the real deal.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    The demand from the public is pretty clear that they now want more investment in public services. If the tories don't do that, and they can, then labour will.

    Better for the tories to do responsibly than labour to do it and wreck the economy.

    Drop HS2 and redeploy capital spending? Cut back on DfID to increase NHS spending and education.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755

    Actually I support Theresa May continuing as PM/Tory leader.

    Gives George time to find a seat and become an MP and fulfill his destiny to be Prime Minister

    And what does he do as PM ?

    Increase student fees ?
    Increase house prices ?
    Borrow more money to spend on vanity projects ?

    I've asked this of Osborne fans multiple times and I've never received an answer.

    So what would PM George Osborne do differently ?
    Offer strong and stable leadership with a long term economic plan.
    LOL

    well that would be a first

    he didnt do it when in government
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Actually I support Theresa May continuing as PM/Tory leader.

    Gives George time to find a seat and become an MP and fulfill his destiny to be Prime Minister

    And what does he do as PM ?

    Increase student fees ?
    Increase house prices ?
    Borrow more money to spend on vanity projects ?

    I've asked this of Osborne fans multiple times and I've never received an answer.

    So what would PM George Osborne do differently ?
    Offer strong and stable leadership with a long term economic plan.

    If you make the election about yourself, and use the words "strong and stable", then you actually have to be strong and stable.

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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,976

    I'm absolutely furious this morning lol.
    I'm for taking down the establishment and watching it burn. Arse holes

    Clearly you were not alone.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Will Kensington go on with recounts after recounts until next GE?

    Is Tower Hamlets feeling jealous because we aren't waiting for them this time?

    :lol:
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    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    This result means it's impossible for anyone to govern unless Sinn Fein takes their seats doesn't it?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    So, what are the Blairites thinking on this sunny Friday post-election morning?

    "Aw....bugger......"?
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    The demand from the public is pretty clear that they now want more investment in public services. If the tories don't do that, and they can, then labour will.

    Better for the tories to do responsibly than labour to do it and wreck the economy.

    I agree. Protect the police, education, social care budgets. This was as much to do about austerity as it was about REMAINER anger. We need to do this or Labour will go mad again when they control the levers.



    I posted a comment a few days ago about long shots that could come off: I suggested ayr, my prediction was: Actual was
    Tory 40 40

    SNP 38 35

    Labour 21 24

    Really annoyed I didn't put a coule of quid on that, others who knew it better said they were looking for a Tory GAIN in Aryshire but couldn't make it work, should of gone with my gut! DAMN......ah well. Well done Casino_Royale for his 14/1 that he got on this.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    What a rich irony for the Prime Minister.

    Her position is shored up by the gay Ruth Davidson's Scottish Tories whilst her coalition of chaos relies on the homophobic DUP.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,283

    Actually I support Theresa May continuing as PM/Tory leader.

    Gives George time to find a seat and become an MP and fulfill his destiny to be Prime Minister

    And what does he do as PM ?

    Increase student fees ?
    Increase house prices ?
    Borrow more money to spend on vanity projects ?

    I've asked this of Osborne fans multiple times and I've never received an answer.

    So what would PM George Osborne do differently ?
    Offer strong and stable leadership with a long term economic plan.
    The voters have just underlined once again their dissatisfaction with the existing economic settlement. All the issues that Mrs May professed to understand and promised to address on the steps of Downing Street. Whatever and whoever comes next will have to make a serious attempt to address this agenda.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    .

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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,822
    Has she gone yet? Anybody?
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,128

    A new dawn has broken, has it not?

    It looks like May has handcuffed herself to a radiator inside No. 10. Time to go Tezzie.

    But does she really have any choice? If she resigned, it would take months to elect a new Conservative leader. Wouldn't the Queen have to ask Corbyn to try to form a government in those circumstances?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,472

    Actually I support Theresa May continuing as PM/Tory leader.

    Gives George time to find a seat and become an MP and fulfill his destiny to be Prime Minister

    And what does he do as PM ?

    Increase student fees ?
    Increase house prices ?
    Borrow more money to spend on vanity projects ?

    I've asked this of Osborne fans multiple times and I've never received an answer.

    So what would PM George Osborne do differently ?
    Offer strong and stable leadership with a long term economic plan.
    LOL

    well that would be a first

    he didnt do it when in government
    He did, that's why the Tories increased their share of the vote and MPs in 2015.
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    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,977
    Assuming if May stays, senior tories will make it a condition that the useless fiona hill and nick Timothy leave
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,091

    Actually I support Theresa May continuing as PM/Tory leader.

    Gives George time to find a seat and become an MP and fulfill his destiny to be Prime Minister

    And what does he do as PM ?

    Increase student fees ?
    Increase house prices ?
    Borrow more money to spend on vanity projects ?

    I've asked this of Osborne fans multiple times and I've never received an answer.

    So what would PM George Osborne do differently ?
    Offer strong and stable leadership with a long term economic plan.
    So you can't think of anything - nor could MaxPB and others.

    For that matter neither can I.

    We've reached the stage where the magic money trees are running out of leaves while the voters say "we want more and we want it now".
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,976

    I congratulate the Labour and LD supporters on a great campaign and a great night. I am sure you are having fun right now.

    However, one thing seems to be overlooked. When the sun rises tomorrow, there will be a Tory Government.

    No there won't. Coalition with a Party who aren't sure dinosaurs existed at best.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,011

    HYUFD said:

    Actually I support Theresa May continuing as PM/Tory leader.

    Gives George time to find a seat and become an MP and fulfill his destiny to be Prime Minister

    If you think Osborne is the answer to stopping Corbyn you are asking the wrong question, Boris and Davidson are who the party needs, the electorate voted as much against continued austerity as May's social care plans

    Davidson hates Boris, who is actively harmful to the UK's interests.

    They can and will have to work together, both are pragmatists
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,002
    Charles said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I see skies of blue and clouds of white
    The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night
    And I think to myself what a wonderful world.

    Seemed a harmless little fuck
    But we unleashed a lion
    Gnashed his teeth

    And bit the recessed lady's breast
    How could I forget
    He hit me with a surprise left
    My jaw left hurting

    Dropped wide open
    Just like the day
    Like the day I heard
    Daddy didn't give affection

    And the boy was something mommy wouldn't wear
    King Jeremy the wicked
    Ruled his world
    Jeremy spoke in class today
    Jeremy spoke in class today
    Line 7 "my jaw still hurting" perhaps? Two "lefts" doesn't really work

    Otherwise very good.
    I'll pass your comments on to Eddie Vedder who wrote it!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS91knuzoOA
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    I've just heard John McDonnell on the BBC, basically saying Labour can form a minority government without making any formal deals with other parties, an option he firmly ruled out.

    He said they'd write a Queen's speech enacting the Labour manifesto, which he thought would get majority support in the Commons. He asked who'd dare vote against abolishing tuition fees.

    If Labour do try that approach, it will be a fiasco, and another election will look likely. The question then will be who voters blame for the mess.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    I wonder how many former Tory MPs would still be MPs this morning if they had followed Kevin Foster's example in Torbay - and donated the increase in their MP's salary to charities in their constituency? It worked wonders with waverers on the doorstep....
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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    Charles said:

    The demand from the public is pretty clear that they now want more investment in public services. If the tories don't do that, and they can, then labour will.

    Better for the tories to do responsibly than labour to do it and wreck the economy.

    Drop HS2 and redeploy capital spending? Cut back on DfID to increase NHS spending and education.
    If you included all benefits etc paid to asylum seekers and refugees in the DfID budget you could cut it and still claim the 0.7% figure or whatever it is. and I've never liked HS2.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    Con hold Cornwall SE.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,472

    Assuming if May stays, senior tories will make it a condition that the useless fiona hill and nick Timothy leave

    No, they will make a condition that they can perform a penectomy on Nick Timothy too.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,091
    Corbyn has hovered up the dispossessed vote.

    If he had promised to write off all student debt he would have got even more votes.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,472

    Actually I support Theresa May continuing as PM/Tory leader.

    Gives George time to find a seat and become an MP and fulfill his destiny to be Prime Minister

    And what does he do as PM ?

    Increase student fees ?
    Increase house prices ?
    Borrow more money to spend on vanity projects ?

    I've asked this of Osborne fans multiple times and I've never received an answer.

    So what would PM George Osborne do differently ?
    Offer strong and stable leadership with a long term economic plan.
    So you can't think of anything - nor could MaxPB and others.

    For that matter neither can I.

    We've reached the stage where the magic money trees are running out of leaves while the voters say "we want more and we want it now".
    Actually I'm writing a thread on what Osborne could do for Sunday.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755

    Actually I support Theresa May continuing as PM/Tory leader.

    Gives George time to find a seat and become an MP and fulfill his destiny to be Prime Minister

    And what does he do as PM ?

    Increase student fees ?
    Increase house prices ?
    Borrow more money to spend on vanity projects ?

    I've asked this of Osborne fans multiple times and I've never received an answer.

    So what would PM George Osborne do differently ?
    Offer strong and stable leadership with a long term economic plan.
    LOL

    well that would be a first

    he didnt do it when in government
    He did, that's why the Tories increased their share of the vote and MPs in 2015.
    No he bribed older voters, that's an economic policy of sorts but not the one we need

    Then he helped lose a referendum in 2016 which why we are where we are so not so stable
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,722
    Apparently Davies pushed hardest for an election and isn't popular with his cabinet colleagues. Big takeaway from this result is that the Conservative tack to UKIP has failed tactically. I am as surprised as anyone by that. Too many Kippers went Labour. UKIP are dead as a party, so there's no point pandering to them anymore. The centre ground is where the Tories need to be.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,288
    edited June 2017
    Chris said:

    A new dawn has broken, has it not?

    It looks like May has handcuffed herself to a radiator inside No. 10. Time to go Tezzie.

    But does she really have any choice? If she resigned, it would take months to elect a new Conservative leader. Wouldn't the Queen have to ask Corbyn to try to form a government in those circumstances?
    No.

    Cameron remained PM whilst Con chose new leader.

    May could do the same.

    But difference is the increased instability this time - some leadership candidates might say they want another GE.

    So May should remain party leader at least in short run to let things settle down.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,976

    I've just heard John McDonnell on the BBC, basically saying Labour can form a minority government without making any formal deals with other parties, an option he firmly ruled out.

    He said they'd write a Queen's speech enacting the Labour manifesto, which he thought would get majority support in the Commons. He asked who'd dare vote against abolishing tuition fees.

    If Labour do try that approach, it will be a fiasco, and another election will look likely. The question then will be who voters blame for the mess.

    A fiasco? Not strong and stable government you reckon?
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    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    CD13 said:

    For the first time in a GE, I was a NOTA, although I didn't expect it to come to pass. Juncker will be pleased and the EU will ensure it is either a hard Brexit, or a Brexit in name only.

    Had Brexit been the largest factor, the LDs would have done much better. A combination of The Grey Mist's incompetence combined with that 'manifesto', Jezza being on his best behaviour, and a lovely bribe to the young (nearly half go to university) has changed things dramatically.

    The Tories need a new face, preferably a young one, to contrast with Jezza. I don't know the Tory party well enough to guess, but I think Mr Eagles' mate has burned his bridges .

    Brexit was a huge factor - massive difference in the swing to Labour in Remain vs Leave seats
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    GeoffHGeoffH Posts: 56

    I've just heard John McDonnell on the BBC, basically saying Labour can form a minority government without making any formal deals with other parties, an option he firmly ruled out.

    He said they'd write a Queen's speech enacting the Labour manifesto, which he thought would get majority support in the Commons. He asked who'd dare vote against abolishing tuition fees.

    If Labour do try that approach, it will be a fiasco, and another election will look likely. The question then will be who voters blame for the mess.

    1924.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    LOL McDonnell on the BBC AGAIN
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Assuming if May stays, senior tories will make it a condition that the useless fiona hill and nick Timothy leave

    No, they will make a condition that they can perform a penectomy on Nick Timothy too.
    Be careful whn allocating blame. Remember it was Lynton Crosby who directed this unremittingly negative campaign and insisted on the Strong and Stable strapline that became a punchline.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Chris said:

    A new dawn has broken, has it not?

    It looks like May has handcuffed herself to a radiator inside No. 10. Time to go Tezzie.

    But does she really have any choice? If she resigned, it would take months to elect a new Conservative leader. Wouldn't the Queen have to ask Corbyn to try to form a government in those circumstances?
    Cameron stayed on as interim PM after resigning as Conservative leader.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,091

    Actually I support Theresa May continuing as PM/Tory leader.

    Gives George time to find a seat and become an MP and fulfill his destiny to be Prime Minister

    And what does he do as PM ?

    Increase student fees ?
    Increase house prices ?
    Borrow more money to spend on vanity projects ?

    I've asked this of Osborne fans multiple times and I've never received an answer.

    So what would PM George Osborne do differently ?
    Offer strong and stable leadership with a long term economic plan.
    So you can't think of anything - nor could MaxPB and others.

    For that matter neither can I.

    We've reached the stage where the magic money trees are running out of leaves while the voters say "we want more and we want it now".
    Actually I'm writing a thread on what Osborne could do for Sunday.
    If he took charge now he would be starting from a point where the national debt is £700bn higher, student debt higher and house prices higher than they were when he took charge in 2010.

    And in 2010 he took charge at the beginning of an economic cycle, now its not likely to be long before we have the next recession.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Faisal: Some liberal minded Tories horrified at thought of deals with DUP.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,976
    May being mercilessly mocked on Good Morning Britain. She is finished. Who Governs Britain? Not you.
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    Labour can't form a government that's just silly. May needs to form a minority government, hand over either to someone competent or to Boris. DUP won't bring down the government. They just squeezed out every vote they can. Only way from where they are is down.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    FF43 said:

    Apparently Davies pushed hardest for an election and isn't popular with his cabinet colleagues. Big takeaway from this result is that the Conservative tack to UKIP has failed tactically. I am as surprised as anyone by that. Too many Kippers went Labour. UKIP are dead as a party, so there's no point pandering to them anymore. The centre ground is where the Tories need to be.

    Roll on Brexit for the 60%. It's where we should have been from the beginning, not trying to get hard Brexit through on the back of 20% of voters and Tory voters who had nowhere else to go.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,869
    On Topic

    Yeah Mike you have been spot on all along!!


    I remember you saying how good you thought Corbyn was all along!!
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,320

    I've just heard John McDonnell on the BBC, basically saying Labour can form a minority government without making any formal deals with other parties, an option he firmly ruled out.

    He said they'd write a Queen's speech enacting the Labour manifesto, which he thought would get majority support in the Commons. He asked who'd dare vote against abolishing tuition fees.

    If Labour do try that approach, it will be a fiasco, and another election will look likely. The question then will be who voters blame for the mess.

    Who will the voters blame for the mess?

    I think the voters have a pretty good idea who to blame for the current mess, Robert, don't you? And if you don't you'll get a pretty good idea who when they go to the polls again, which may in fact be fairly soon.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    I've just heard John McDonnell on the BBC, basically saying Labour can form a minority government without making any formal deals with other parties, an option he firmly ruled out.

    He said they'd write a Queen's speech enacting the Labour manifesto, which he thought would get majority support in the Commons. He asked who'd dare vote against abolishing tuition fees.

    If Labour do try that approach, it will be a fiasco, and another election will look likely. The question then will be who voters blame for the mess.

    I have always said McDonnell is far more dangerous than corbyn. Corbyn is the 1970s rebooted and saying anything that even slightly wavers from that is hard for him to utter. McDonnell on the other hand will say anything.
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    CosmicCosmic Posts: 26
    The SNP had more net losses than the Tories.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    He will like that.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I'd like to apologise for tipping against the Tories in Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock.

    I discover I had a cheeky fiver on the at 7/1.
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    PaulyPauly Posts: 897

    Faisal: Some liberal minded Tories horrified at thought of deals with DUP.

    The pansies better swallow their pride for the national interest.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    'Strong and Stable' TMay has created a situation where McDonnell can state on TV that Labour offer strong and stable government in contrast to the Tories.

    You couldn't make this up.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    It's over. She can't govern. We have to vote again. And kick her out.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,091
    Charles said:

    The demand from the public is pretty clear that they now want more investment in public services. If the tories don't do that, and they can, then labour will.

    Better for the tories to do responsibly than labour to do it and wreck the economy.

    Drop HS2 and redeploy capital spending? Cut back on DfID to increase NHS spending and education.
    Vanity projects like HS2 and Overseas Aid need to go.

    Likewise with the warmongering and strutting about the international stage.
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    FF43 said:

    Big takeaway from this result is that the Conservative tack to UKIP has failed tactically. I am as surprised as anyone by that. ...The centre ground is where the Tories need to be.

    Amazing how the Tory party keep forgetting this. The problem is there are too many Tory MP headbangers to allow a centrist Leader to be able to really run the party. The centre ground for instance is not to leave the EU.

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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Chris said:

    A new dawn has broken, has it not?

    It looks like May has handcuffed herself to a radiator inside No. 10. Time to go Tezzie.

    But does she really have any choice? If she resigned, it would take months to elect a new Conservative leader. Wouldn't the Queen have to ask Corbyn to try to form a government in those circumstances?
    Months? The last one took about a fortnight.
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    DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    May is now PM as long as the big beasts allow her to be. As soon as they want to take over, they can.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,449
    Well, I'm obviously very disappointed with this result. But what does this all mean?

    The problem with democracy is that it isn't an essay question. You just get to put a cross in a box; you dodn't get to specify what sort of conservatism or socialism or liberalism you want. A pity, though it would make counts very long. Before we jerk too many knees, we should recognise that the Conservative Party has achieved the third highest vote total of any party ever, and outpolled Tony Blair in 1997. The country has wholesale rejected conservatism - though if course, it is hard to know what shade of conservatism its conservative voters might prefer. That said, there are clearly many, many voters for whom the status quo offers so little that they are prepared to dabble with Corbynism in the hope of something different. The twitter warriors are a tiny minority of these. I don't believe many Labour voters want to see Britain turned into Venezuela. What they do want is what many Conservatives also want: job security, pay rises, better public services, an answer to tuition fees.
    Our system tends to polarise us into two camps, when the reality is that thre are a wide spectrum of opinions. Perhaps as a result of this election we might have to pay heed to some of the issues we currently aren't adressing. That's no bad thing. That's how democracy should work.
    I can't, can't reconcile myselt to Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell. To me, they are far beyond the pale. But most of their voters, most of their members, most of their MPs are not a different tribe; they are decent people who have a different set of priorities to me or a differnet approach to getting to the same broad goal.
    Britain hasn't changed its mind. Britain isn't a single entity dithering between two choices. It is 60-odd million people weighing up hundreds and hundreds of issues and value sets. A relatively small proportion of Britons have decided to express their priorities through the democtratic system a different way. For some of us, the outcome is disappointing, but that doesn't shake my belief in democracy.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,128
    MikeL said:

    Chris said:

    A new dawn has broken, has it not?

    It looks like May has handcuffed herself to a radiator inside No. 10. Time to go Tezzie.

    But does she really have any choice? If she resigned, it would take months to elect a new Conservative leader. Wouldn't the Queen have to ask Corbyn to try to form a government in those circumstances?
    No.

    Cameron remained PM whilst Con chose new leader.

    May could do the same.

    But difference is the increased instability this time - some leadership candidates might say they want another GE.

    So May should remain party leader at least in short run to let things settle down.
    I think Sandy was talking about her position as Prime Minister. I'm saying she doesn't want to resign as PM because then Corbyn would be asked to form a government.

    I suppose one Tory strategy would be to hand the whole mess over to him in the expectation he would fail to form a government. That would be dangerous because (1) he might succeed and (2) if he didn't, the Tories might be blamed for abdicating their responsibility to the country.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,311

    If the DUP won't countenance special status for Northern Ireland in the EU, and they won't countenance a hard border with Ireland, then the cost of a deal will have to be that we forget any idea of leaving the single market and customs union.

    Agreed
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    MaxPB said:

    FF43 said:

    Apparently Davies pushed hardest for an election and isn't popular with his cabinet colleagues. Big takeaway from this result is that the Conservative tack to UKIP has failed tactically. I am as surprised as anyone by that. Too many Kippers went Labour. UKIP are dead as a party, so there's no point pandering to them anymore. The centre ground is where the Tories need to be.

    Roll on Brexit for the 60%. It's where we should have been from the beginning, not trying to get hard Brexit through on the back of 20% of voters and Tory voters who had nowhere else to go.
    Your dry as dust libertarianism is dead.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,115
    edited June 2017
    Roger said:

    They are asking how the Tories can do a deal with a Party which believes the world is less than 10,000 years old? The DUP aren't Orthodox Jews are they?

    Congrats on your relly's majority, & your E.Lothian tip, I completely misread the SLab surge. We are all Corbynites now.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,011
    MaxPB said:

    FF43 said:

    Apparently Davies pushed hardest for an election and isn't popular with his cabinet colleagues. Big takeaway from this result is that the Conservative tack to UKIP has failed tactically. I am as surprised as anyone by that. Too many Kippers went Labour. UKIP are dead as a party, so there's no point pandering to them anymore. The centre ground is where the Tories need to be.

    Roll on Brexit for the 60%. It's where we should have been from the beginning, not trying to get hard Brexit through on the back of 20% of voters and Tory voters who had nowhere else to go.
    They can go to UKIP and if we do do 'soft Brexit' Farage will return to lead them. Personally I would not be too concerned with soft Brexit having voted Remain but a lot of former UKIP voters who went to the Tories and Labour this time will
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    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    edited June 2017
    Cameron's EU referendum was a miscalculation. We all know that. May's snap election was a miscalculation. We now know that too.

    But I wonder if this morning is also showing us that Cameron's opposition to PR (or, at least, AV) was a miscalculation. Not only did it rule out a Con-Lib Dem coalition for the foreseeable future, it prevented a French-style realignment where a number of smaller centre/centre-right parties are always available to make deals with Les Republicains.

    Right now I imagine May would give her right arm to have centrist parties prepared to enter a coalition with her, and it's long been suspected that Cameron would have preferred a second coalition with the Lib Dems to his coalition with the headbangers in his own party.
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    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,546
    edited June 2017

    I congratulate the Labour and LD supporters on a great campaign and a great night. I am sure you are having fun right now.

    However, one thing seems to be overlooked. When the sun rises tomorrow, there will be a Tory Government.

    Almost. I'd have taken 12 seats in a flash if you'd offered it yesterday. But to lose NE Fife by 2, Richmond Park by 45, Ceredigion by 104 and St Ives by 312 - that hurts. It should have been better.
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    Lol. Made a profit on the election. Almost every call I made was wrong but I backed Labour in Canterbury!
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Offering bribes to voters always seems to work. I remember Roy Jenkins being blasted by Labour for not presenting a give-away budget just before one GE. Going to the country with a promise to make things worse for many is always problematic. And people like to blame the 'Fat Cats'.

    Jezza is a man for the 'underdog" and powerful nations are never underdogs. Once he can turn us into a weak nation, we'll become an underdog, and he might even support us then.

    But that Tory campaign was abysmal - they may eat babies, but they used to be able to do it efficiently.

    The Ukip voters believed it was safe to return to their former parties. It'll be interesting to see where they go.

    Anyway, it's a sunny day, God's in his heaven, and the world goes on.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    Corbyn has hovered up the dispossessed vote.

    If he had promised to write off all student debt he would have got even more votes.
    Agreed.


    With Brexit and now this, the political class need to pay attention to this group.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,128

    Chris said:

    A new dawn has broken, has it not?

    It looks like May has handcuffed herself to a radiator inside No. 10. Time to go Tezzie.

    But does she really have any choice? If she resigned, it would take months to elect a new Conservative leader. Wouldn't the Queen have to ask Corbyn to try to form a government in those circumstances?
    Months? The last one took about a fortnight.
    But the Queen's government must be carried on. Even if it only took a fortnight, she couldn't resign as PM until it was done. If she wants out, the only option is to resign as party leader but remain PM.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Pauly said:

    Faisal: Some liberal minded Tories horrified at thought of deals with DUP.

    The pansies better swallow their pride for the national interest.
    Are you Nigel Dodds?
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    If May resigns as PM then Corbyn is PM until his QS is voted down.
    Her option is to resign as leader but stay as PM if she has the confidence of the house.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,091
    Has anyone got a list of the seats which were Con in 2010 but not in 2017 and those which were not Con in 2010 but were in 2017.

    I'll bet the Conservatives losses were mostly urban, especially London, middle class seats while their gains were in rural or industrial working class areas.

    That applies to England and Wales only - Scotland is somewhat different.
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    PaulyPauly Posts: 897

    Pauly said:

    Faisal: Some liberal minded Tories horrified at thought of deals with DUP.

    The pansies better swallow their pride for the national interest.
    Are you Nigel Dodds?
    I see myself as more of a Sammy Wilson type figure.
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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    Alistair said:

    I'd like to apologise for tipping against the Tories in Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock.

    I discover I had a cheeky fiver on the at 7/1.

    Glad I missed your tip and even more glad for your win. I think almost every tip I put up on here won but both my memory and searching skills are insufficient to prove it.
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    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    I thoroughly recommend reading last night's thread at 22.01. Shock, denial and anger all on display
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    I've just heard John McDonnell on the BBC, basically saying Labour can form a minority government without making any formal deals with other parties, an option he firmly ruled out.

    He said they'd write a Queen's speech enacting the Labour manifesto, which he thought would get majority support in the Commons. He asked who'd dare vote against abolishing tuition fees.

    If Labour do try that approach, it will be a fiasco, and another election will look likely. The question then will be who voters blame for the mess.

    Who will the voters blame for the mess?

    I think the voters have a pretty good idea who to blame for the current mess, Robert, don't you? And if you don't you'll get a pretty good idea who when they go to the polls again, which may in fact be fairly soon.
    Ask them today, and the voters would probably blame the Tories, but in aix months?

    If we have six months of Labour politicians talking about their grand ideas on TV, and complaining that none of the other parties will vote for them while showing absolutely no willingness to compromise the public mood might well change.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,984
    Mr. Cosmic, yeah, poor night for the SNP. But I do wonder if Con gains are built on a specific set of circumstances.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,722
    Theresa May or her successor can get a Brexit deal through, but it needs the support of Labour to see off ​any potential rebellion on Tory benches. The DUP won't provide the numbers. The Conservative leadership needs to have serious talks with Keir Starmer.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Faisal: Some liberal minded Tories horrified at thought of deals with DUP.

    Exactly. If the Tories go with a DUP C&S then all their "interesting" policies and beliefs will be paraded by the opposition parties and hang them round the neck of the Tories. An understanding with the DUP comes with a price tag in many senses.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    MaxPB said:

    FF43 said:

    Apparently Davies pushed hardest for an election and isn't popular with his cabinet colleagues. Big takeaway from this result is that the Conservative tack to UKIP has failed tactically. I am as surprised as anyone by that. Too many Kippers went Labour. UKIP are dead as a party, so there's no point pandering to them anymore. The centre ground is where the Tories need to be.

    Roll on Brexit for the 60%. It's where we should have been from the beginning, not trying to get hard Brexit through on the back of 20% of voters and Tory voters who had nowhere else to go.
    Your dry as dust libertarianism is dead.
    That's always been dead, I've never believed otherwise. I was on here (and telling irl Tories) saying that the government should have run on meeting the Labour Leave campaign pledges like £350m per week for the NHS.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Pauly said:

    Pauly said:

    Faisal: Some liberal minded Tories horrified at thought of deals with DUP.

    The pansies better swallow their pride for the national interest.
    Are you Nigel Dodds?
    I see myself as more of a Sammy Wilson type figure.
    That I can believe.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Also, after all that's been said about Kezia Dugdale, she must not be that bad, given how SLab have done so well.
This discussion has been closed.