Those suggesting Labour won the youth vote by offering a bribe - it's worth noting that most of the young wouldn't have been better off as they are either in the middle of their courses or have finished. There is only a small fraction I believe who would've been liable to pay student loans who would've benefitted from Labour's plans.
Perhaps they voted for some other mad reason... like principle?
Incorrect. The labour plan was to back date the legislation so even those currently in Uni would have had their fees written off. In fact they promised to write off fees from some people who have already graduated. It was self interest, which is fair enough.
That does not explain why my 19 year old daughter who is not at university was so keen on Corbyn. The fact is that unlike the other leaders, he spoke to them and spoke hopefully.
Just been listening to George O. Must be in line for the best Tory leader they never had
Ken Clarke says otherwise.
Does he blame him for this mess? If so unfair in my opinion. Cameron is the villain. History will judge him as the worst PM ever.
Nah, the people spoke.
Brexit would have been even messier if we had no referendum and say in 2020 Dave's replacement put in the Tory manifesto to pull us out of the EU and they won a majority on 35% of the vote
There really was no need for him to resign though, it made an uncertain situation more chaotic than need be.
Cameron told us he would not resign if we voted to Leave. We voted to Leave. He resigned.
Cameron bears a significant amount of responsibility for last night. If he hadn't resigned, we would not have had May and then she wouldn't have felt the need to go to the country to get her own mandate from the voters. (Although, I concede that he would have been in a very difficult situation fronting Brexit. So he should have said he would resign if he lost - would probably have been enough to win it for Remain.)
He shouldn't have called a referendum if he wasn't going to stay around to implement either result. Voting to leave the EU needed steady govt to see it through which we had. Very selfish of Cameron, how popular he would have been if he had accepted defeat and got on with his job
Not sure if it has been mentioned, but on a pretty similar share of the vote, Mrs May has secured more votes in total than Tony Blair did in his landslide victory in 1997.
So, maybe it turns out Obama in 2008 and 2012 wasn't big data micro targetting maths wizards woo and it was just he was a vastly better candidate than the opposition.
May will get all the blame and carry the can, but the hubris of the Tory back office operation is worth reflecting on too. Both Messina and Crosby have had their reputations destroyed by this result. It was them sending May to those constituencies and putting her in warehouses and security-swept factories.
I am looking forward to hearing some stories from tissue price. Such a shame he couldn't pull it off this time, though maybe he will have to stay quiet in case he has another try soon.
TP is a star of the future. The Tories should nurture him.
Perhaps it did, but not quite in the way intended.
I don't wish to pick at a sore point, but does this mean Indyref2 is off the table until at least the mid 2020s?
If the last couple of years have taught us anything, it's that one should avoid saying an issue is settled or finished or decided.
Obviously the result in Scotland means the people want another referendum - oh
Not sure if someone who's whole PB output has been based on loudly stating that voters wouldn't touch RA loving, Hammas cuddling Jezza with a barge pole is in a position to be judging what voters in another country want, but hey ho.
Theresa May to visit the palace at 12.30pm to seek permission to form a government.
I don't see that she has a choice, otherwise Jez and his rabble get first crack. It's what she does afterwards that will be important. If she says, I will be a caretaker PM until the party has a full leadership election, no coronation etc... then it will be fine. If she intends to cling on then it won't.
Could Paul Nuttall hurry up and resign after his lamentable performance? Some of us have bets riding on him doing so and I don't want it spoiled by the Prime Minister succumbing to a bout of integrity.
She's resigning today.
I suppose it is just possible Nuttall beats her to it but otherwise go directly to Betfair, now.
Not according to the BBC just now, she isn't. She thinks she can hang on.
Mrs May is damaged goods, but she has to hang on. We have no time to mess about as Brexit negotiations start in less than two weeks and it is completely the wrong time to be switching leaders.
Not sure if it has been mentioned, but on a pretty similar share of the vote, Mrs May has secured more votes in total than Tony Blair did in his landslide victory in 1997.
That's 2 party politics for you I suppose.
All that "look at the share not the lead" stuff wasn't so sensible after all.
Perhaps it did, but not quite in the way intended.
I don't wish to pick at a sore point, but does this mean Indyref2 is off the table until at least the mid 2020s?
If the last couple of years have taught us anything, it's that one should avoid saying an issue is settled or finished or decided.
Obviously the result in Scotland means the people want another referendum - oh
Not sure if someone who's whole PB output has been based on loudly stating that voters wouldn't touch RA loving, Hammas cuddling Jezza with a barge pole is in a position to be judging what voters in another country want, but hey ho.
My whole output eh? oh yet more crap from you - hey ho
Those suggesting Labour won the youth vote by offering a bribe - it's worth noting that most of the young wouldn't have been better off as they are either in the middle of their courses or have finished. There is only a small fraction I believe who would've been liable to pay student loans who would've benefitted from Labour's plans.
Perhaps they voted for some other mad reason... like principle?
Incorrect. The labour plan was to back date the legislation so even those currently in Uni would have had their fees written off. In fact they promised to write off fees from some people who have already graduated. It was self interest, which is fair enough.
That does not explain why my 19 year old daughter who is not at university was so keen on Corbyn. The fact is that unlike the other leaders, he spoke to them and spoke hopefully.
after a dramatic night and not much sleep, I have no additional insight in to what might happen now.
But if for nothing but mu one ego can I remind people that at about 7 PM yesterday this was my prediction, well just about, I predicted Conservators at 335 + or - 20 and 318 is in that range.
Perhaps it did, but not quite in the way intended.
I don't wish to pick at a sore point, but does this mean Indyref2 is off the table until at least the mid 2020s?
If the last couple of years have taught us anything, it's that one should avoid saying an issue is settled or finished or decided.
Obviously the result in Scotland means the people want another referendum - oh
Not sure if someone who's whole PB output has been based on loudly stating that voters wouldn't touch RA loving, Hammas cuddling Jezza with a barge pole is in a position to be judging what voters in another country want, but hey ho.
My whole output eh? oh yet more crap from you - hey ho
Those suggesting Labour won the youth vote by offering a bribe - it's worth noting that most of the young wouldn't have been better off as they are either in the middle of their courses or have finished. There is only a small fraction I believe who would've been liable to pay student loans who would've benefitted from Labour's plans.
Perhaps they voted for some other mad reason... like principle?
Incorrect. The labour plan was to back date the legislation so even those currently in Uni would have had their fees written off. In fact they promised to write off fees from some people who have already graduated. It was self interest, which is fair enough.
That does not explain why my 19 year old daughter who is not at university was so keen on Corbyn. The fact is that unlike the other leaders, he spoke to them and spoke hopefully.
One of my sons voted for him - even though he doesn't like the anti semitism problems Labour has been having.
Those suggesting Labour won the youth vote by offering a bribe - it's worth noting that most of the young wouldn't have been better off as they are either in the middle of their courses or have finished. There is only a small fraction I believe who would've been liable to pay student loans who would've benefitted from Labour's plans.
Perhaps they voted for some other mad reason... like principle?
Incorrect. The labour plan was to back date the legislation so even those currently in Uni would have had their fees written off. In fact they promised to write off fees from some people who have already graduated. It was self interest, which is fair enough.
That does not explain why my 19 year old daughter who is not at university was so keen on Corbyn. The fact is that unlike the other leaders, he spoke to them and spoke hopefully.
One of my sons voted for him - even though he doesn't like the anti semitism problems Labour has been having.
He thought he had the better vision
He was the only one with any kind of bloody vision.
Those suggesting Labour won the youth vote by offering a bribe - it's worth noting that most of the young wouldn't have been better off as they are either in the middle of their courses or have finished. There is only a small fraction I believe who would've been liable to pay student loans who would've benefitted from Labour's plans.
Perhaps they voted for some other mad reason... like principle?
Incorrect. The labour plan was to back date the legislation so even those currently in Uni would have had their fees written off. In fact they promised to write off fees from some people who have already graduated. It was self interest, which is fair enough.
That does not explain why my 19 year old daughter who is not at university was so keen on Corbyn. The fact is that unlike the other leaders, he spoke to them and spoke hopefully.
One of my sons voted for him - even though he doesn't like the anti semitism problems Labour has been having.
He thought he had the better vision
thats the key. Thats also why he won the leadership. He had something to sell, and something to offer.
Perhaps it did, but not quite in the way intended.
I don't wish to pick at a sore point, but does this mean Indyref2 is off the table until at least the mid 2020s?
If the last couple of years have taught us anything, it's that one should avoid saying an issue is settled or finished or decided.
Obviously the result in Scotland means the people want another referendum - oh
Not sure if someone who's whole PB output has been based on loudly stating that voters wouldn't touch RA loving, Hammas cuddling Jezza with a barge pole is in a position to be judging what voters in another country want, but hey ho.
My whole output eh? oh yet more crap from you - hey ho
You ok hun?
yeah - as I said life goes on, but I might be slightly hung over :-)
I wanted the tories to beat Labour but not a tory so not as invested as some others
To what extend did differential age turnout, compared to predictions, screw up the Tory seat targeting? Or was that screwed up by other factors? Certainly it seems the Tory effort was directed to seats in a sub-optimal way...
The targeting was correct in some ways.
What was not anticipated was Remain Conservatives in prosperous seats switching to Labour.
The Tories should be thanking God they're up against Corbyn. Burnham might have won this outright.
In a way they've had a reprieve they don't deserve. They stand the best chance of governing - Corbyn can't even hold his own party together, never mind an alliance of three or four others - and they've had a painful lesson to make the election about policies. Labour got a free ride on a manifesto that was in places very irresponsible.
They need a new leader clearly. That has been clear for about 5 or 6 weeks now.
Just been listening to George O. Must be in line for the best Tory leader they never had
Ken Clarke says otherwise.
Does he blame him for this mess? If so unfair in my opinion. Cameron is the villain. History will judge him as the worst PM ever.
Nah, the people spoke.
Brexit would have been even messier if we had no referendum and say in 2020 Dave's replacement put in the Tory manifesto to pull us out of the EU and they won a majority on 35% of the vote
Well done last night and well into the morning. Sterling effort.
May will get all the blame and carry the can, but the hubris of the Tory back office operation is worth reflecting on too. Both Messina and Crosby have had their reputations destroyed by this result. It was them sending May to those constituencies and putting her in warehouses and security-swept factories.
Your reputation is of course intact.
Ha, ha. I was right about May from the very start. The rest is detail ;-)
after a dramatic night and not much sleep, I have no additional insight in to what might happen now.
But if for nothing but mu one ego can I remind people that at about 7 PM yesterday this was my prediction, well just about, I predicted Conservators at 335 + or - 20 and 318 is in that range.
Well done. Hope you profited from it. You were one of the few.
Could Paul Nuttall hurry up and resign after his lamentable performance? Some of us have bets riding on him doing so and I don't want it spoiled by the Prime Minister succumbing to a bout of integrity.
She's resigning today.
I suppose it is just possible Nuttall beats her to it but otherwise go directly to Betfair, now.
Well she should. The difficult bit is working out how to manage the transition or whether the Conservatives go straight to a unity candidate (they don't seem in the mood for that).
The Conservatives should stop worrying about their own mood and start thinking about the mood of the country. This could get ugly.
A little contrition wouldn't go amiss.
The Conservatives aren't in the least contrite. They think the only mistake was in the execution rather than the content. If they were chocolate, they'd eat themselves.
I thought the electorate gave some pretty clear signals yesterday. The Conservatives need to consider how they are going to address them.
The Tories should be thanking God they're up against Corbyn. Burnham might have won this outright.
In a way they've had a reprieve they don't deserve. They stand the best chance of governing - Corbyn can't even hold his own party together, never mind an alliance of three or four others - and they've had a painful lesson to make the election about policies. Labour got a free ride on a manifesto that was in places very irresponsible.
They need a new leader clearly. That has been clear for about 5 or 6 weeks now.
Burnham would have been frightened of his own shadow and shat his pants from day one of the campaign.
Just been listening to George O. Must be in line for the best Tory leader they never had
Ken Clarke says otherwise.
Does he blame him for this mess? If so unfair in my opinion. Cameron is the villain. History will judge him as the worst PM ever.
Nah, the people spoke.
Brexit would have been even messier if we had no referendum and say in 2020 Dave's replacement put in the Tory manifesto to pull us out of the EU and they won a majority on 35% of the vote
Well done last night and well into the morning. Sterling effort.
So, maybe it turns out Obama in 2008 and 2012 wasn't big data micro targetting maths wizards woo and it was just he was a vastly better candidate than the opposition.
History is written by the victors. Same here. Crosby and Messina walked on water after 2015. In 2016 everyone was fawning over Dominic Cumming's account of how he won Brexit.
The other day I wondered on here whether we could be sure that Corbyn in power would ever voluntarily relinquish it. I cited his approval of Maoist regimes and his disregard of things like no confidence votes in support.
The responses were along the lines that existing constitutional constraints would prevent any such thing; oddly nobody suggested that Corbyn himself would never contemplate any such thing.
Here we are this morning and we have Corbyn 55 seats begin declaring victory.
I wasn't wrong about him.
Oh yes you were. You under-estimated him. Now May is in coalition with terrorist apologists and young Earth creationists.
I under-estimated him, yes. Mea culpa. But in the above respect I suggest I wasn't wrong about him. From second place with no prospect of achieving a majority in the house, he has declared that he's won and should govern.
Remainers are reinvigorated and excited this morning, It is not over. Meaningful Brexit now seriously in doubt
No it really isn't.
70% of the population including Remainers want it to go ahead. Corbyn if he ever did get close to power would not be able to do much of what he wants if we are inside the EU. The choice yesterday was between two parties that are both committed to Brexit and the two parties that were opposed both got a bloody nose. The Remainers are no closer to overturning Brexit than they were 3 weeks ago or 3 months ago.
To what extend did differential age turnout, compared to predictions, screw up the Tory seat targeting? Or was that screwed up by other factors? Certainly it seems the Tory effort was directed to seats in a sub-optimal way...
The targeting was correct in some ways.
What was not anticipated was Remain Conservatives in prosperous seats switching to Labour.
Which is where the campaign singularly failed. We went for hard Brexit without also dragging Labour into it with us, too many people thought Labour would keep us in the single market and we didn't challenge that. Theresa May wasn't there in a debate with Corbyn to make him say "Labour will also take Britain out of the single market". It was our negligence which allowed that Labour policy to slide and it allowed them to present themselves as in favour of soft-Brexit to the remainers while actually supporting an almost identical version of Brexit as Theresa.
Clocking in bloodied and humiliated after three hours in the Hersham stocks being lashed 100 times at one end by monks from the Order of the Psephologians and on the other pelted with the yolks of 319 rotten eggs.
But if my reputation as a sage is er, well and truly f**ked, that's nothing compared to Mrs M and the zombie administration she will soon be leading. Of course, she should go...but to be replaced by whom and when?? Almost all the putative successors are not much less crap than she is. Please not David Davis, please no.
So we're condemned to 'governing' (sic) until it likely all falls apart sometime in the not too distant future. If there's a way out that ends well for the party from this self inflicted imbroglio I can't see it. At least not today.
Commisserations John. You deserved better even if the Government didn't.
Would Ken Clarke do as an interim replacement until the Party sorts itself out a bit? It really can't afford another f*ck up and he is totally dependable and trusted.
Hi Peter, I'm only mightily relieved that my election took place last month not yesterday, otherwise I'd be feeling REALLY sore!
No, Ken would tear what remains of the party (which will still form a government) into a zillion shreds. He's just too divisive. But who else? That's the rub. I think May does have to stay on for a few months until the picture becomes clearer. It's all very grim indeed.
May will get all the blame and carry the can, but the hubris of the Tory back office operation is worth reflecting on too. Both Messina and Crosby have had their reputations destroyed by this result. It was them sending May to those constituencies and putting her in warehouses and security-swept factories.
Your reputation is of course intact.
Ha, ha. I was right about May from the very start. The rest is detail ;-)
And it's been pissing down so perhaps no drought :-)
Could Paul Nuttall hurry up and resign after his lamentable performance? Some of us have bets riding on him doing so and I don't want it spoiled by the Prime Minister succumbing to a bout of integrity.
She's resigning today.
I suppose it is just possible Nuttall beats her to it but otherwise go directly to Betfair, now.
Well she should. The difficult bit is working out how to manage the transition or whether the Conservatives go straight to a unity candidate (they don't seem in the mood for that).
The Conservatives should stop worrying about their own mood and start thinking about the mood of the country. This could get ugly.
A little contrition wouldn't go amiss.
The Conservatives aren't in the least contrite. They think the only mistake was in the execution rather than the content. If they were chocolate, they'd eat themselves.
I thought the electorate gave some pretty clear signals yesterday. The Conservatives need to consider how they are going to address them.
Could Paul Nuttall hurry up and resign after his lamentable performance? Some of us have bets riding on him doing so and I don't want it spoiled by the Prime Minister succumbing to a bout of integrity.
She's resigning today.
I suppose it is just possible Nuttall beats her to it but otherwise go directly to Betfair, now.
Well she should. The difficult bit is working out how to manage the transition or whether the Conservatives go straight to a unity candidate (they don't seem in the mood for that).
The Conservatives should stop worrying about their own mood and start thinking about the mood of the country. This could get ugly.
A little contrition wouldn't go amiss.
The Conservatives aren't in the least contrite. They think the only mistake was in the execution rather than the content. If they were chocolate, they'd eat themselves.
I thought the electorate gave some pretty clear signals yesterday. The Conservatives need to consider how they are going to address them.
Really? Which Conservatives have given you that impression?
This deal with the DUP is going to utterly toxify the Tories. The Tories will hold Mansfield in the next election mind
I doubt if they're going to implement DUP policies across England, Wales and Scotland. The concessions will be on issues like enacting a statute of limitations for ex-servicemen, which won't be unpopular.
To what extend did differential age turnout, compared to predictions, screw up the Tory seat targeting? Or was that screwed up by other factors? Certainly it seems the Tory effort was directed to seats in a sub-optimal way...
The targeting was correct in some ways.
What was not anticipated was Remain Conservatives in prosperous seats switching to Labour.
"No deal is better than a bad deal" is actually a good negotiating position, and is certainly smarter than the alternative.
But saying it before a GE and people (wrongly) assuming that she wanted hard Brexit? Insanity.
Perhaps this was the problem with calling a snap election; the overall strategy was not being thought through.
To what extend did differential age turnout, compared to predictions, screw up the Tory seat targeting? Or was that screwed up by other factors? Certainly it seems the Tory effort was directed to seats in a sub-optimal way...
The targeting was correct in some ways.
What was not anticipated was Remain Conservatives in prosperous seats switching to Labour.
and half of the ukip vote in many seats going to labour! If the tories got two thirds instead they would have made enough gains to ofset the southern losses?
So, maybe it turns out Obama in 2008 and 2012 wasn't big data micro targetting maths wizards woo and it was just he was a vastly better candidate than the opposition.
History is written by the victors. Same here. Crosby and Messina walked on water after 2015. In 2016 everyone was fawning over Dominic Cumming's account of how he won Brexit.
DC's thoughts on this campaign would be interesting..
I am short GBP on basis that pound has only fallen a bit because market sniffs hard brexit averted; but possibly likely to unravel next few days as it emerges May is going to battle on regardless, with a gun now held to her head by DUP & Duncan Smfuith type Eurosceptic hardliners - for me we are in worse possible scenario; she is very, very weakened but sceptics still in driving seat. Clock ticking. No evidence now brexit will go mega soft despite Osborne tweets, or are there enough Tory pro Europeans to detail and I am misreading?
The other day I wondered on here whether we could be sure that Corbyn in power would ever voluntarily relinquish it. I cited his approval of Maoist regimes and his disregard of things like no confidence votes in support.
The responses were along the lines that existing constitutional constraints would prevent any such thing; oddly nobody suggested that Corbyn himself would never contemplate any such thing.
Here we are this morning and we have Corbyn 55 seats begin declaring victory.
I wasn't wrong about him.
Oh yes you were. You under-estimated him. Now May is in coalition with terrorist apologists and young Earth creationists.
I under-estimated him, yes. Mea culpa. But in the above respect I suggest I wasn't wrong about him. From second place with no prospect of achieving a majority in the house, he has declared that he's won and should govern.
He's declared he wants to form a government. Why shouldn't he? Even if it is a stretch.
Those suggesting Labour won the youth vote by offering a bribe - it's worth noting that most of the young wouldn't have been better off as they are either in the middle of their courses or have finished. There is only a small fraction I believe who would've been liable to pay student loans who would've benefitted from Labour's plans.
Perhaps they voted for some other mad reason... like principle?
Incorrect. The labour plan was to back date the legislation so even those currently in Uni would have had their fees written off. In fact they promised to write off fees from some people who have already graduated. It was self interest, which is fair enough.
That does not explain why my 19 year old daughter who is not at university was so keen on Corbyn. The fact is that unlike the other leaders, he spoke to them and spoke hopefully.
One of my sons voted for him - even though he doesn't like the anti semitism problems Labour has been having.
He thought he had the better vision
thats the key. Thats also why he won the leadership. He had something to sell, and something to offer.
And next time whoever the Tory candidate is for PM, they have to offer that vision too. And be a fuck of a lot smarter at politics. Labour will lose some of their shine - their policies will be under INTENSE scrutiny (they have to be - the way Hammond was absent from the field of battle, sulking at losing the Chancellor's job in the subsequent reshuffle, meant that there was no demolition job on the Labour manifesto it so richly deserved). And they won't be quite so shiny and new. Not quite so obvious as the for-tomorrow-we-die act of rebellion in supporting them. And not quite so fired up by anger at the Brexit outcome. But they will still be very formidable - and fired up by knowing that facing a 10,000 majority is not a bar to winning a seat.
But equally, next time the Tories can't be THAT inept again. Where did all their money go?
This talk of hard and soft Brexit is nonsense. If we leave the EU we leave the Single Market (inc free movement).
Why do you think that? We coulf be a member of the EFTA, in the single market but out of the EU, just as Norway is.
Politically impossible for the Tories to get through, this election has strengthened the position of the Brexit Ultras on the back benches. In no circumstances will they accept freedom of movement. The whole point of the election was to give her the numbers to be flexible and not beholden to them. Obvs a failure.
Could Paul Nuttall hurry up and resign after his lamentable performance? Some of us have bets riding on him doing so and I don't want it spoiled by the Prime Minister succumbing to a bout of integrity.
She's resigning today.
I suppose it is just possible Nuttall beats her to it but otherwise go directly to Betfair, now.
Well she should. The difficult bit is working out how to manage the transition or whether the Conservatives go straight to a unity candidate (they don't seem in the mood for that).
The Conservatives should stop worrying about their own mood and start thinking about the mood of the country. This could get ugly.
A little contrition wouldn't go amiss.
The Conservatives aren't in the least contrite. They think the only mistake was in the execution rather than the content. If they were chocolate, they'd eat themselves.
I thought the electorate gave some pretty clear signals yesterday. The Conservatives need to consider how they are going to address them.
Really? Which Conservatives have given you that impression?
So, maybe it turns out Obama in 2008 and 2012 wasn't big data micro targetting maths wizards woo and it was just he was a vastly better candidate than the opposition.
History is written by the victors. Same here. Crosby and Messina walked on water after 2015. In 2016 everyone was fawning over Dominic Cumming's account of how he won Brexit.
DC's thoughts on this campaign would be interesting..
They should get him back to run the next Tory campaign. It looks to me like Corbyn took a lot of lessons from Cummings' post referendum analysis.
Could Paul Nuttall hurry up and resign after his lamentable performance? Some of us have bets riding on him doing so and I don't want it spoiled by the Prime Minister succumbing to a bout of integrity.
She's resigning today.
I suppose it is just possible Nuttall beats her to it but otherwise go directly to Betfair, now.
Well she should. The difficult bit is working out how to manage the transition or whether the Conservatives go straight to a unity candidate (they don't seem in the mood for that).
The Conservatives should stop worrying about their own mood and start thinking about the mood of the country. This could get ugly.
A little contrition wouldn't go amiss.
The Conservatives aren't in the least contrite. They think the only mistake was in the execution rather than the content. If they were chocolate, they'd eat themselves.
I thought the electorate gave some pretty clear signals yesterday. The Conservatives need to consider how they are going to address them.
Really? Which Conservatives have given you that impression?
I am short GBP on basis that pound has only fallen a bit because market sniffs hard brexit averted; but possibly likely to unravel next few days as it emerges May is going to battle on regardless, with a gun now held to her head by DUP & Duncan Smith type Eurosceptic hardliners - for me we are in worse possible scenario; she is very, very weakened but sceptics still in driving seat. Clock ticking. No evidence now brexit will go mega soft despite Osborne tweets, or are there enough Tory pro Europeans to detail and I am misreading?
Market thinks brexit cancelled / softened, but Davis prob in negotiations in 10 days time, just more captive to swivel-eyed hard-line loons than anytime since the vote last year; just a gut reaction that Osborne disagreed with on ITV; what do you guys think?
Could Paul Nuttall hurry up and resign after his lamentable performance? Some of us have bets riding on him doing so and I don't want it spoiled by the Prime Minister succumbing to a bout of integrity.
She's resigning today.
I suppose it is just possible Nuttall beats her to it but otherwise go directly to Betfair, now.
Well she should. The difficult bit is working out how to manage the transition or whether the Conservatives go straight to a unity candidate (they don't seem in the mood for that).
The Conservatives should stop worrying about their own mood and start thinking about the mood of the country. This could get ugly.
A little contrition wouldn't go amiss.
The Conservatives aren't in the least contrite. They think the only mistake was in the execution rather than the content. If they were chocolate, they'd eat themselves.
I thought the electorate gave some pretty clear signals yesterday. The Conservatives need to consider how they are going to address them.
Really? Which Conservatives have given you that impression?
To what extend did differential age turnout, compared to predictions, screw up the Tory seat targeting? Or was that screwed up by other factors? Certainly it seems the Tory effort was directed to seats in a sub-optimal way...
The targeting was correct in some ways.
What was not anticipated was Remain Conservatives in prosperous seats switching to Labour.
Did they switch in big numbers? Or just stay at home unenthused while Labour voters came out?
Could Paul Nuttall hurry up and resign after his lamentable performance? Some of us have bets riding on him doing so and I don't want it spoiled by the Prime Minister succumbing to a bout of integrity.
She's resigning today.
I suppose it is just possible Nuttall beats her to it but otherwise go directly to Betfair, now.
Well she should. The difficult bit is working out how to manage the transition or whether the Conservatives go straight to a unity candidate (they don't seem in the mood for that).
The Conservatives should stop worrying about their own mood and start thinking about the mood of the country. This could get ugly.
A little contrition wouldn't go amiss.
The Conservatives aren't in the least contrite. They think the only mistake was in the execution rather than the content. If they were chocolate, they'd eat themselves.
I thought the electorate gave some pretty clear signals yesterday. The Conservatives need to consider how they are going to address them.
Really? Which Conservatives have given you that impression?
This talk of hard and soft Brexit is nonsense. If we leave the EU we leave the Single Market (inc free movement).
Remainers are reinvigorated and excited this morning, It is not over. Meaningful Brexit now seriously in doubt
No it really isn't.
70% of the population including Remainers want it to go ahead. Corbyn if he ever did get close to power would not be able to do much of what he wants if we are inside the EU. The choice yesterday was between two parties that are both committed to Brexit and the two parties that were opposed both got a bloody nose. The Remainers are no closer to overturning Brexit than they were 3 weeks ago or 3 months ago.
I think they're much closer. May said this was an election backing Brexit. She didn't get it. It's now down to parliamentary arithmatic. There are many ways the MPs can push it into the long grass and as 75% were against leaving the EU apart from paying lip service to 'the wishes of the people' they now have the power to do it.
The other day I wondered on here whether we could be sure that Corbyn in power would ever voluntarily relinquish it. I cited his approval of Maoist regimes and his disregard of things like no confidence votes in support.
The responses were along the lines that existing constitutional constraints would prevent any such thing; oddly nobody suggested that Corbyn himself would never contemplate any such thing.
Here we are this morning and we have Corbyn 55 seats begin declaring victory.
I wasn't wrong about him.
Oh yes you were. You under-estimated him. Now May is in coalition with terrorist apologists and young Earth creationists.
I under-estimated him, yes. Mea culpa. But in the above respect I suggest I wasn't wrong about him. From second place with no prospect of achieving a majority in the house, he has declared that he's won and should govern.
He's declared he wants to form a government. Why shouldn't he? Even if it is a stretch.
No, he has declared that he has won. That is different.
Could Paul Nuttall hurry up and resign after his lamentable performance? Some of us have bets riding on him doing so and I don't want it spoiled by the Prime Minister succumbing to a bout of integrity.
She's resigning today.
I suppose it is just possible Nuttall beats her to it but otherwise go directly to Betfair, now.
Well she should. The difficult bit is working out how to manage the transition or whether the Conservatives go straight to a unity candidate (they don't seem in the mood for that).
The Conservatives should stop worrying about their own mood and start thinking about the mood of the country. This could get ugly.
A little contrition wouldn't go amiss.
The Conservatives aren't in the least contrite. They think the only mistake was in the execution rather than the content. If they were chocolate, they'd eat themselves.
I thought the electorate gave some pretty clear signals yesterday. The Conservatives need to consider how they are going to address them.
Really? Which Conservatives have given you that impression?
She needs to let the Labour coalition have a crack at running things, fail over the next twelve months, and collapse - otherwise I think that, when we go back to the polls in six months time, we'll end up with a labour absolute majority under the current leadership.
Comments
That's 2 party politics for you I suppose.
after a dramatic night and not much sleep, I have no additional insight in to what might happen now.
But if for nothing but mu one ego can I remind people that at about 7 PM yesterday this was my prediction, well just about, I predicted Conservators at 335 + or - 20 and 318 is in that range.
This talk of hard and soft Brexit is nonsense. If we leave the EU we leave the Single Market (inc free movement).
Remainers are reinvigorated and excited this morning, It is not over. Meaningful Brexit now seriously in doubt
He thought he had the better vision
The one result outstanding is the expected Labour gain in Kensington?
So close for Corbyn - 15 more seats for Labour and Corbyn would have been PM.
Fun times ahead.
Also the first PMQs will be awkward for Mrs May
(the last WM leadership election, that is).
I wanted the tories to beat Labour but not a tory so not as invested as some others
What was not anticipated was Remain Conservatives in prosperous seats switching to Labour.
In a way they've had a reprieve they don't deserve. They stand the best chance of governing - Corbyn can't even hold his own party together, never mind an alliance of three or four others - and they've had a painful lesson to make the election about policies. Labour got a free ride on a manifesto that was in places very irresponsible.
They need a new leader clearly. That has been clear for about 5 or 6 weeks now.
Some very outstanding results - your party did well
September ?
I thought the electorate gave some pretty clear signals yesterday. The Conservatives need to consider how they are going to address them.
This strengthens the far left significantly. It's a very poor result.
Con + DUP has majority of 13.
And that means just seven rebels / by-election losses to lose that majority.
And one of those could come in Thanet South fairly soon.
70% of the population including Remainers want it to go ahead. Corbyn if he ever did get close to power would not be able to do much of what he wants if we are inside the EU. The choice yesterday was between two parties that are both committed to Brexit and the two parties that were opposed both got a bloody nose. The Remainers are no closer to overturning Brexit than they were 3 weeks ago or 3 months ago.
No, Ken would tear what remains of the party (which will still form a government) into a zillion shreds. He's just too divisive. But who else? That's the rub. I think May does have to stay on for a few months until the picture becomes clearer. It's all very grim indeed.
"No deal is better than a bad deal" is actually a good negotiating position, and is certainly smarter than the alternative.
But saying it before a GE and people (wrongly) assuming that she wanted hard Brexit? Insanity.
Perhaps this was the problem with calling a snap election; the overall strategy was not being thought through.
But equally, next time the Tories can't be THAT inept again. Where did all their money go?
Market thinks brexit cancelled / softened, but Davis prob in negotiations in 10 days time, just more captive to swivel-eyed hard-line loons than anytime since the vote last year; just a gut reaction that Osborne disagreed with on ITV; what do you guys think?
What if Ed Milliband had run with this manifesto in 2015 rather than the weak sauce he went with?
No it really isn't.
70% of the population including Remainers want it to go ahead. Corbyn if he ever did get close to power would not be able to do much of what he wants if we are inside the EU. The choice yesterday was between two parties that are both committed to Brexit and the two parties that were opposed both got a bloody nose. The Remainers are no closer to overturning Brexit than they were 3 weeks ago or 3 months ago.
I think they're much closer. May said this was an election backing Brexit. She didn't get it. It's now down to parliamentary arithmatic. There are many ways the MPs can push it into the long grass and as 75% were against leaving the EU apart from paying lip service to 'the wishes of the people' they now have the power to do it.