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  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PSbook: That theory about David Cameron resigning early so he could screw up Boris Johnson's career?

    No longer a theory.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    @LouiseMensch

    Can the news stop for five minutes must wash hair
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Mr. Gin, indeed. Machiavelli would be proud. Maybe he's a modern day Septimius Severus.

    Mr. Mortimer, I know that feeling. Didn't even back my own 70/1 winning tip on Button winning the 2009 title.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,161
    Once it gets to the final two after the MP's ballot, could one stand down to avoid a vote of the party?
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Quick question, as I'm thinking of playing the Article 50 market.

    We now know it won't be invoked in 2016 (assuming a May victory). So can we assume Q1 2017?

    Possible curveball: May is not able to get it through parliament as europhile Tories rebel on a technicality (i.e. assurances from EU not good enough etc). Result: considerable delay.

    Is Q3 2017 therefore value at 20/1?

    https://www.skybet.com/politics/european-politics/event/19451469
  • mr-claypolemr-claypole Posts: 218
    What would be a decent interval for Gove to withdraw and endorse May?

    Think we are seeing a Michael Howard style coronation being orchestrated. The Tory party can have amazing audacity (why did i doubt that).

    Poor Boris career ended the day he accidentally won the referendum he wanted to lose well. There is nothing for him now - even Heseltine has his various regeneration successes and stellar business career to look back on. A full Sebastain Flyte style future beckons for the blond one.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Oh my, Mr Aaronvitch has clocked up 1240 comments. This is an almighty spanking for the bien pensants.

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/the-anger-is-so-great-we-must-have-a-new-vote-wx6s953z7
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited June 2016

    The Tories remind us that Labour has nothing on them when it comes to ruthlessness.

    We knife from the front without sharpening it first. But all the Tory leadership races, this one by Gove was by far the most cunning and ruthless.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Jonathan said:

    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    When the next leader fails, it will be Boris' turn. Smart move potentially.

    No, he's toast. That's the end of his political career.
    Yes, I don't see how he comes back from this to get another run at being leader. Even if he lands a big job in May's cabinet and dumps Minister for Brexit on Gove, by the time May retires or is beaten he'll be too old and the new intake will have their people in the running.
    He has never had a run at being leader. If the next leader fails (which is not impossible in the rocky seas ahead), commeth the hour commeth the Boris to save the Tory party.

    In the meantime, he's write a book.
    I think that's right. I see a stellar career for him as a sparkling, funny, incisive media pundit and author. I doubt if he'll even stand again for Parliament - too much like hard work.
    Boris as Tory chairman -- the Jeffrey Archer de nos jours?
    Mange tout, mange tout.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024

    The Tories remind us that Labour has nothing on them when it comes to ruthlessness.

    The nasty party- will haunt May.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,340

    The Tories remind us that Labour has nothing on them when it comes to ruthlessness.

    Yes, we do regicide properly. How the opposition benches must be looking on with envy at how the Tory Corbyn has been disposed of.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    nunu said:

    The Tories remind us that Labour has nothing on them when it comes to ruthlessness.

    The nasty party- will haunt May.
    Nixon going to China.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,725
    So Boris out, hard to see past May now especially given her convincing lead in the members' poll yesterday and Gove's previous statements that he 'is not up to the job'
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662
    Even though I had Boris as a -ve I don't like him pulling out as it shortens Leadsome. He's cost me probably £40 directly and indirectly this morning.

    What a shit.
  • John_N4John_N4 Posts: 553
    edited June 2016
    Good that I laid Boris Johnson at 2.3 :)

    Just heard Theresa May on the radio saying there will definitely be Brexit and definitely no second referendum. What a fine example of paraleipsis! She had probably just put the phone down from conferring with Angela Merkel on how to keep Britain in the EU.

    As for Gove, I suppose someone might be playing 11-dimensional chess, but it seems extremely surprising that an ambitious wannabe Macchiavellian like Sarah Vine didn't realise David Cameron would resign if he lost the referendum. It was obvious he would.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,161
    Heh, May's barb about Boris' water cannons... titter
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,340

    What would be a decent interval for Gove to withdraw and endorse May?

    Think we are seeing a Michael Howard style coronation being orchestrated. The Tory party can have amazing audacity (why did i doubt that).

    Poor Boris career ended the day he accidentally won the referendum he wanted to lose well. There is nothing for him now - even Heseltine has his various regeneration successes and stellar business career to look back on. A full Sebastain Flyte style future beckons for the blond one.

    He'll knock Leadsom and Fox out then drop out leaving her to go up against Crabb.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Jobabob said:

    Quick question, as I'm thinking of playing the Article 50 market.

    We now know it won't be invoked in 2016 (assuming a May victory). So can we assume Q1 2017?

    Possible curveball: May is not able to get it through parliament as europhile Tories rebel on a technicality (i.e. assurances from EU not good enough etc). Result: considerable delay.

    Is Q3 2017 therefore value at 20/1?

    https://www.skybet.com/politics/european-politics/event/19451469

    I'd be careful. I think she's bluffing - it's a negotiating stance. It's in everyone's interest to get this done ASAP.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    @LouiseMensch

    Can the news stop for five minutes must wash hair

    Sleazy, greasy Mensch on the slide.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,725

    Fenster said:

    Do you think he'll be offered a cabinet job by May or Gove?

    No.
    Yes, Secretary of State for Transport with special responsibility for Heathrow expansion and road tolls
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662
    Any news on the Eagle ?

    Has she launched ?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Jobabob said:

    Quick question, as I'm thinking of playing the Article 50 market.

    We now know it won't be invoked in 2016 (assuming a May victory). So can we assume Q1 2017?

    Possible curveball: May is not able to get it through parliament as europhile Tories rebel on a technicality (i.e. assurances from EU not good enough etc). Result: considerable delay.

    Is Q3 2017 therefore value at 20/1?

    https://www.skybet.com/politics/european-politics/event/19451469

    I doubt it, Mr. Bob. I don't even think that sending the letter actually needs a vote in parliament, though I am sure there will be a debate. I also doubt that there will be enough, if any, Conservative rebels if a push does come to a shove. On top of which there are the Ulster Unionists and who knows what the Labour position will be, if they even have one.
  • RobD said:

    Once it gets to the final two after the MP's ballot, could one stand down to avoid a vote of the party?

    Yes AFAIK.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,450
    edited June 2016
    HYUFD said:

    So Boris out, hard to see past May now especially given her convincing lead in the members' poll yesterday and Gove's previous statements that he 'is not up to the job'

    If there's one final, final twist in all of this it could be Andrea Leadsom swooping in from nowhere?
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Getting matched at 9 again on D. Miliband
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    When's the first vote on the shortlist for the Conservative leadership? Tuesday?
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Did the usual channels arrange todays entertainment to be provided by the Conservative leadership election in the morning and the Labour leadership election in the afternoon?

    When is the Green leadership election?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,161

    When's the first vote on the shortlist for the Conservative leadership? Tuesday?

    Yep, then Thursday (and the following Tue and Thu until it gets down to 2)
  • surbiton said:

    If Leadsom survives after Round 2, she could make it. She has not said anything contradictory as far as I can remember.

    I agree. But I also wonder about Round 1 with 2 REMAIN vs 3 LEAVE. I really really want her in the final two, fingers and other bits crossed.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    So what happens to Nadine now ? Having Criticised Cameron and Osborne for being posh-boys, then Boris leaves her high and dry.

    So, what is this Boris scandal ?
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    MaxPB said:

    What would be a decent interval for Gove to withdraw and endorse May?

    Think we are seeing a Michael Howard style coronation being orchestrated. The Tory party can have amazing audacity (why did i doubt that).

    Poor Boris career ended the day he accidentally won the referendum he wanted to lose well. There is nothing for him now - even Heseltine has his various regeneration successes and stellar business career to look back on. A full Sebastain Flyte style future beckons for the blond one.

    He'll knock Leadsom and Fox out then drop out leaving her to go up against Crabb.
    Why wouldn't he go all the way?

    He's likely to be very competitive vs. May on the membership ballot.

    Why would he drop out?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    The bosses at Heathrow are presumably opening the Champagne as well.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Mr. D, cheers.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,304

    The bosses at Heathrow are presumably opening the Champagne as well.

    Surely Brexit means there will be no need for another runway?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Even though I had Boris as a -ve I don't like him pulling out as it shortens Leadsome. He's cost me probably £40 directly and indirectly this morning.

    Leadsom is neck and neck with Gove for second favourite. Crabb and Fox are outsiders.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    You've got to feel sorry for the podcast people -- the longest week just got longer.
  • John_N4John_N4 Posts: 553

    I don't even think that sending the letter actually needs a vote in parliament, though I am sure there will be a debate. I also doubt that there will be enough, if any, Conservative rebels if a push does come to a shove. On top of which there are the Ulster Unionists and who knows what the Labour position will be, if they even have one.

    There wouldn't need to be many more anti-A50 Tory rebels than pro-A50 Labour rebels.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,161

    Mr. D, cheers.

    I think the longest it could go is three rounds, so Tuesday 12th July.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662

    Pulpstar said:

    Even though I had Boris as a -ve I don't like him pulling out as it shortens Leadsome. He's cost me probably £40 directly and indirectly this morning.

    Leadsom is neck and neck with Gove for second favourite. Crabb and Fox are outsiders.
    Bettingwise Leadsome my worst result. Politically she'd make the next GE very very interesting.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Pong said:

    MaxPB said:

    What would be a decent interval for Gove to withdraw and endorse May?

    Think we are seeing a Michael Howard style coronation being orchestrated. The Tory party can have amazing audacity (why did i doubt that).

    Poor Boris career ended the day he accidentally won the referendum he wanted to lose well. There is nothing for him now - even Heseltine has his various regeneration successes and stellar business career to look back on. A full Sebastain Flyte style future beckons for the blond one.

    He'll knock Leadsom and Fox out then drop out leaving her to go up against Crabb.
    Why wouldn't he go all the way?

    He's likely to be very competitive vs. May on the membership ballot.

    Why would he drop out?
    Because he has told us that he does not have the qualities required for the top job?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    If Leadsom survives after Round 2, she could make it. She has not said anything contradictory as far as I can remember.

    I agree. But I also wonder about Round 1 with 2 REMAIN vs 3 LEAVE. I really really want her in the final two, fingers and other bits crossed.
    From a Labour point of view, I fear Leadsom the most, followed by May. Gove would be our choice.
  • tlg86 said:

    The bosses at Heathrow are presumably opening the Champagne as well.

    Surely Brexit means there will be no need for another runway?
    Now you are pointing out inconsistencies in the REMAIN official camp arguments. It is not fair to mock losers.
  • YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740
    surbiton said:

    So what happens to Nadine now ? Having Criticised Cameron and Osborne for being posh-boys, then Boris leaves her high and dry.

    So, what is this Boris scandal ?

    It's been hidden in plain sight for weeks. The carefully crafted Amber Rudd jibe in the first debate.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,340
    Pong said:

    MaxPB said:

    What would be a decent interval for Gove to withdraw and endorse May?

    Think we are seeing a Michael Howard style coronation being orchestrated. The Tory party can have amazing audacity (why did i doubt that).

    Poor Boris career ended the day he accidentally won the referendum he wanted to lose well. There is nothing for him now - even Heseltine has his various regeneration successes and stellar business career to look back on. A full Sebastain Flyte style future beckons for the blond one.

    He'll knock Leadsom and Fox out then drop out leaving her to go up against Crabb.
    Why wouldn't he go all the way?

    He's likely to be very competitive vs. May on the membership ballot.

    Why would he drop out?
    He doesn't want the leadership, just to keep Boris out.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited June 2016

    Pong said:

    MaxPB said:

    What would be a decent interval for Gove to withdraw and endorse May?

    Think we are seeing a Michael Howard style coronation being orchestrated. The Tory party can have amazing audacity (why did i doubt that).

    Poor Boris career ended the day he accidentally won the referendum he wanted to lose well. There is nothing for him now - even Heseltine has his various regeneration successes and stellar business career to look back on. A full Sebastain Flyte style future beckons for the blond one.

    He'll knock Leadsom and Fox out then drop out leaving her to go up against Crabb.
    Why wouldn't he go all the way?

    He's likely to be very competitive vs. May on the membership ballot.

    Why would he drop out?
    Because he has told us that he does not have the qualities required for the top job?
    But that was THEN, this is NOW.

    Politics 101
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    If Leadsom survives after Round 2, she could make it. She has not said anything contradictory as far as I can remember.

    I agree. But I also wonder about Round 1 with 2 REMAIN vs 3 LEAVE. I really really want her in the final two, fingers and other bits crossed.
    From a Labour point of view, I fear Leadsom the most, followed by May. Gove would be our choice.
    No time for party political advantage. Gove would be extremely helpful party politically but would destroy Europe, so can't be him.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited June 2016
    Jobabob said:

    Quick question, as I'm thinking of playing the Article 50 market.

    We now know it won't be invoked in 2016 (assuming a May victory). So can we assume Q1 2017?

    Possible curveball: May is not able to get it through parliament as europhile Tories rebel on a technicality (i.e. assurances from EU not good enough etc). Result: considerable delay.

    Is Q3 2017 therefore value at 20/1?

    https://www.skybet.com/politics/european-politics/event/19451469

    Liam Fox made the point on the Sunday Politics, that the EU budget runs Jan-Dec, so you'd want to invoke article 50 so the clock ran out in or before Dec.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    The bosses at Heathrow are presumably opening the Champagne as well.

    May is the MP for Maidenhead. To get Heathrow, you will have to wait for a Labour government.
  • YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    If Leadsom survives after Round 2, she could make it. She has not said anything contradictory as far as I can remember.

    I agree. But I also wonder about Round 1 with 2 REMAIN vs 3 LEAVE. I really really want her in the final two, fingers and other bits crossed.
    From a Labour point of view, I fear Leadsom the most, followed by May. Gove would be our choice.
    Leadsom was in both debates. She's as tied to Leaves lies as Boris was.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Mr. Surbiton, I'd agree with that assessment.

    That said, Corbyn is kryptonite for Labour.

    Mr. D, thanks for that extra info.

    Been getting very little work done. Not because of worries about the economy, but because politics is frenetic and crammed with more dramatic twists than the best TV series.

    Incidentally, no release date yet but it's looking promising for Explorations (sci-fi anthology in which I have a short story) to be released this year. Also, still possible Kingdom Asunder (novel set in the Bane of Souls/Journey to Altmortis world) will also be out in 2016.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,340

    The bosses at Heathrow are presumably opening the Champagne as well.

    Yes, so are the people who spend hours flying around over Heathrow every week waiting to land.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    Surely this confirms once and for all the Boris never wanted or intended to Leave.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    surbiton said:

    So what happens to Nadine now ? Having Criticised Cameron and Osborne for being posh-boys, then Boris leaves her high and dry.

    So, what is this Boris scandal ?

    He never goes all the way?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,304
    BTW, has Robert written a script that bans the use of "innocent face"?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    If Leadsom survives after Round 2, she could make it. She has not said anything contradictory as far as I can remember.

    I agree. But I also wonder about Round 1 with 2 REMAIN vs 3 LEAVE. I really really want her in the final two, fingers and other bits crossed.
    From a Labour point of view, I fear Leadsom the most, followed by May. Gove would be our choice.
    Leadsom was in both debates. She's as tied to Leaves lies as Boris was.
    Leadsom is the "leave" true believer (With Fox) I guess. Horrible for UKIP, good for more "remainy" parties ;)
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Jobabob said:

    Quick question, as I'm thinking of playing the Article 50 market.

    We now know it won't be invoked in 2016 (assuming a May victory). So can we assume Q1 2017?

    Possible curveball: May is not able to get it through parliament as europhile Tories rebel on a technicality (i.e. assurances from EU not good enough etc). Result: considerable delay.

    Is Q3 2017 therefore value at 20/1?

    https://www.skybet.com/politics/european-politics/event/19451469

    Liam Fox made the point on the Sunday Politics, that the EU budget runs Jan-Dec, so you'd want to invoke article 50 so the clock ran out in or before Dec.
    Explain why that is relevant (not saying it isn't but I simply don't follow the logic).
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    surbiton said:

    So what happens to Nadine now ? Having Criticised Cameron and Osborne for being posh-boys, then Boris leaves her high and dry.

    Had Nadine not realised that Boris was a bit posh himself? Wasn't the Bullingdon photo of Cameron, Osborne and Boris enough of a clue?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @Morris_Dancer

    "Also, still possible Kingdom Asunder (novel set in the Bane of Souls/Journey to Altmortis world) will also be out in 2016."

    Huzzah!
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    surbiton said:

    So what happens to Nadine now ? Having Criticised Cameron and Osborne for being posh-boys, then Boris leaves her high and dry.

    So, what is this Boris scandal ?


    Something to do with a Scottish lass according to Bunco.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Quick question, as I'm thinking of playing the Article 50 market.

    We now know it won't be invoked in 2016 (assuming a May victory). So can we assume Q1 2017?

    Possible curveball: May is not able to get it through parliament as europhile Tories rebel on a technicality (i.e. assurances from EU not good enough etc). Result: considerable delay.

    Is Q3 2017 therefore value at 20/1?

    https://www.skybet.com/politics/european-politics/event/19451469

    Liam Fox made the point on the Sunday Politics, that the EU budget runs Jan-Dec, so you'd want to invoke article 50 so the clock ran out in or before Dec.
    Explain why that is relevant (not saying it isn't but I simply don't follow the logic).
    Article 50 starts a two year clock. You don't want that clock to runout in february, and leave you on the hook for 12 months contribution to the EU budget.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,725
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Boris out, hard to see past May now especially given her convincing lead in the members' poll yesterday and Gove's previous statements that he 'is not up to the job'

    If there's one final, final twist in all of this it could be Andrea Leadsom swooping in from nowhere?
    There is bound to be a Leave candidate in the final two, Leadsom has more appeal than Fox and Gove and could be that candidate. Though Yougov showed May would still beat Leadsom with members
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,410
    tlg86 said:

    BTW, has Robert written a script that bans the use of "innocent face"?

    Actually, it's asterisks:

    *innocent face*
  • RealBritainRealBritain Posts: 255

    Nick Robinson ‏@bbcnickrobinson 3 mins3 minutes ago

    Murdoch...Dacre...Gove friend of both...Boris's private life...wonder if there might be ...dots to be joined?

    This nexus of influence is so public now that it's almost become surreal ; but the essential immunity of it continues since leveson.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Pulpstar said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    If Leadsom survives after Round 2, she could make it. She has not said anything contradictory as far as I can remember.

    I agree. But I also wonder about Round 1 with 2 REMAIN vs 3 LEAVE. I really really want her in the final two, fingers and other bits crossed.
    From a Labour point of view, I fear Leadsom the most, followed by May. Gove would be our choice.
    Leadsom was in both debates. She's as tied to Leaves lies as Boris was.
    Leadsom is the "leave" true believer (With Fox) I guess. Horrible for UKIP, good for more "remainy" parties ;)
    I think Mr Gove is a true believer too.

  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Did the usual channels arrange todays entertainment to be provided by the Conservative leadership election in the morning and the Labour leadership election in the afternoon?

    When is the Green leadership election?

    The Greens don't have leaders David :)
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    MaxPB said:

    Pong said:

    MaxPB said:

    What would be a decent interval for Gove to withdraw and endorse May?

    Think we are seeing a Michael Howard style coronation being orchestrated. The Tory party can have amazing audacity (why did i doubt that).

    Poor Boris career ended the day he accidentally won the referendum he wanted to lose well. There is nothing for him now - even Heseltine has his various regeneration successes and stellar business career to look back on. A full Sebastain Flyte style future beckons for the blond one.

    He'll knock Leadsom and Fox out then drop out leaving her to go up against Crabb.
    Why wouldn't he go all the way?

    He's likely to be very competitive vs. May on the membership ballot.

    Why would he drop out?
    He doesn't want the leadership, just to keep Boris out.
    Why would he not want the leadership?
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Quick question, as I'm thinking of playing the Article 50 market.

    We now know it won't be invoked in 2016 (assuming a May victory). So can we assume Q1 2017?

    Possible curveball: May is not able to get it through parliament as europhile Tories rebel on a technicality (i.e. assurances from EU not good enough etc). Result: considerable delay.

    Is Q3 2017 therefore value at 20/1?

    https://www.skybet.com/politics/european-politics/event/19451469

    Liam Fox made the point on the Sunday Politics, that the EU budget runs Jan-Dec, so you'd want to invoke article 50 so the clock ran out in or before Dec.
    Explain why that is relevant (not saying it isn't but I simply don't follow the logic).
    Article 50 starts a two year clock. You don't want that clock to runout in february, and leave you on the hook for 12 months contribution to the EU budget.
    Okay yes, thanks for the reply.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,340
    Pong said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pong said:

    MaxPB said:

    What would be a decent interval for Gove to withdraw and endorse May?

    Think we are seeing a Michael Howard style coronation being orchestrated. The Tory party can have amazing audacity (why did i doubt that).

    Poor Boris career ended the day he accidentally won the referendum he wanted to lose well. There is nothing for him now - even Heseltine has his various regeneration successes and stellar business career to look back on. A full Sebastain Flyte style future beckons for the blond one.

    He'll knock Leadsom and Fox out then drop out leaving her to go up against Crabb.
    Why wouldn't he go all the way?

    He's likely to be very competitive vs. May on the membership ballot.

    Why would he drop out?
    He doesn't want the leadership, just to keep Boris out.
    Why would he not want the leadership?
    He's said it. A lot.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,295
    edited June 2016
    Jobabob said:

    surbiton said:

    So what happens to Nadine now ? Having Criticised Cameron and Osborne for being posh-boys, then Boris leaves her high and dry.

    So, what is this Boris scandal ?


    Something to do with a Scottish lass according to Bunco.
    Could he have tried "to form a coalition" with Ruth !!!!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662
    edited June 2016
    Pong said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pong said:

    MaxPB said:

    What would be a decent interval for Gove to withdraw and endorse May?

    Think we are seeing a Michael Howard style coronation being orchestrated. The Tory party can have amazing audacity (why did i doubt that).

    Poor Boris career ended the day he accidentally won the referendum he wanted to lose well. There is nothing for him now - even Heseltine has his various regeneration successes and stellar business career to look back on. A full Sebastain Flyte style future beckons for the blond one.

    He'll knock Leadsom and Fox out then drop out leaving her to go up against Crabb.
    Why wouldn't he go all the way?

    He's likely to be very competitive vs. May on the membership ballot.

    Why would he drop out?
    He doesn't want the leadership, just to keep Boris out.
    Why would he not want the leadership?
    Will Boris support him now ?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,783
    So, farewell then useful idiot.

    The Establishment is truly brutal.
  • May ditches another manifesto pledge.

    James Landale ‏@BBCJLandale 3h3 hours ago
    Important: Theresa May ditches plan to pull UK out of ECHR - says it divides people & has no parliamentary majority
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,161
    MaxPB said:

    Pong said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pong said:

    MaxPB said:

    What would be a decent interval for Gove to withdraw and endorse May?

    Think we are seeing a Michael Howard style coronation being orchestrated. The Tory party can have amazing audacity (why did i doubt that).

    Poor Boris career ended the day he accidentally won the referendum he wanted to lose well. There is nothing for him now - even Heseltine has his various regeneration successes and stellar business career to look back on. A full Sebastain Flyte style future beckons for the blond one.

    He'll knock Leadsom and Fox out then drop out leaving her to go up against Crabb.
    Why wouldn't he go all the way?

    He's likely to be very competitive vs. May on the membership ballot.

    Why would he drop out?
    He doesn't want the leadership, just to keep Boris out.
    Why would he not want the leadership?
    He's said it. A lot.
    A coronation must now be a non-zero probability. Very unlikely, but not impossible.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,450
    edited June 2016
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Boris out, hard to see past May now especially given her convincing lead in the members' poll yesterday and Gove's previous statements that he 'is not up to the job'

    If there's one final, final twist in all of this it could be Andrea Leadsom swooping in from nowhere?
    There is bound to be a Leave candidate in the final two, Leadsom has more appeal than Fox and Gove and could be that candidate. Though Yougov showed May would still beat Leadsom with members
    Leadership contests can take on a life of their own though. You don't know what might happen on the hustings and of course they'll be a TV debate on Question Time at some point...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662
    MaxPB said:

    Pong said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pong said:

    MaxPB said:

    What would be a decent interval for Gove to withdraw and endorse May?

    Think we are seeing a Michael Howard style coronation being orchestrated. The Tory party can have amazing audacity (why did i doubt that).

    Poor Boris career ended the day he accidentally won the referendum he wanted to lose well. There is nothing for him now - even Heseltine has his various regeneration successes and stellar business career to look back on. A full Sebastain Flyte style future beckons for the blond one.

    He'll knock Leadsom and Fox out then drop out leaving her to go up against Crabb.
    Why wouldn't he go all the way?

    He's likely to be very competitive vs. May on the membership ballot.

    Why would he drop out?
    He doesn't want the leadership, just to keep Boris out.
    Why would he not want the leadership?
    He's said it. A lot.
    You don't seriously think that's an impediment do you ?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,304

    tlg86 said:

    BTW, has Robert written a script that bans the use of "innocent face"?

    Actually, it's asterisks:

    *innocent face*
    I tried to do it with <> and it disappeared.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    Fenster said:

    stjohn said:

    Gove drifting now. Will he actually stand now he has taken out Boris?

    stjohn said:

    Gove drifting now. Will he actually stand now he has taken out Boris?

    Interesting this. If Gove pulls out, and he might - I don't think he fancies being leader - will the Boris and Gove juggernaut get behind Leadsom?

    A Tory woman versus Tory woman would do wonders for the party image.
    Nadine v. Anna???
    You provide the ring - I'll get the mud!
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Even though I had Boris as a -ve I don't like him pulling out as it shortens Leadsome. He's cost me probably £40 directly and indirectly this morning.

    Leadsom is neck and neck with Gove for second favourite. Crabb and Fox are outsiders.
    Bettingwise Leadsome my worst result. Politically she'd make the next GE very very interesting.
    At the mo its looking like Gove vs May in the final. I like Ms Leadsom, but I'm not confident she can make the final two.

    One wrinkle, there were reports that gov't whips (Cameron and Osborne) were backing Ms May , and Mr Gove is supposed to be their pal. Will her support move to Gove?
  • surbiton said:

    So what happens to Nadine now ? Having Criticised Cameron and Osborne for being posh-boys, then Boris leaves her high and dry.

    So, what is this Boris scandal ?

    It's been hidden in plain sight for weeks. The carefully crafted Amber Rudd jibe in the first debate.
    Go on .... give us a clue.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,295

    So, farewell then useful idiot.

    The Establishment is truly brutal.

    But the Gove/Murdoch/Dacre axis is more sinister.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited June 2016
    How many female MP's do the Tories have?

    How many are backing May or Leadsom at the moment?

    How many are behind Crabb, Fox or Gove?

    All woman shortlist going to the members?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,783
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    If Leadsom survives after Round 2, she could make it. She has not said anything contradictory as far as I can remember.

    I agree. But I also wonder about Round 1 with 2 REMAIN vs 3 LEAVE. I really really want her in the final two, fingers and other bits crossed.
    From a Labour point of view, I fear Leadsom the most, followed by May. Gove would be our choice.

    I don't think Leadsom is any kind of worry. may is.

    But with Corbyn in place it doesn't really matter.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896

    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Quick question, as I'm thinking of playing the Article 50 market.

    We now know it won't be invoked in 2016 (assuming a May victory). So can we assume Q1 2017?

    Possible curveball: May is not able to get it through parliament as europhile Tories rebel on a technicality (i.e. assurances from EU not good enough etc). Result: considerable delay.

    Is Q3 2017 therefore value at 20/1?

    https://www.skybet.com/politics/european-politics/event/19451469

    Liam Fox made the point on the Sunday Politics, that the EU budget runs Jan-Dec, so you'd want to invoke article 50 so the clock ran out in or before Dec.
    Explain why that is relevant (not saying it isn't but I simply don't follow the logic).
    Article 50 starts a two year clock. You don't want that clock to runout in february, and leave you on the hook for 12 months contribution to the EU budget.
    Awful month for decisions, December. Lose around two weeks due to Christmas.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,784
    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Quick question, as I'm thinking of playing the Article 50 market.

    We now know it won't be invoked in 2016 (assuming a May victory). So can we assume Q1 2017?

    Possible curveball: May is not able to get it through parliament as europhile Tories rebel on a technicality (i.e. assurances from EU not good enough etc). Result: considerable delay.

    Is Q3 2017 therefore value at 20/1?

    https://www.skybet.com/politics/european-politics/event/19451469

    Liam Fox made the point on the Sunday Politics, that the EU budget runs Jan-Dec, so you'd want to invoke article 50 so the clock ran out in or before Dec.
    Explain why that is relevant (not saying it isn't but I simply don't follow the logic).
    I *think* that if you invoke Article 50 this December (2016), and then take exactly 2 years negotiating, then you have to pay EU Fees in 2016, 2017 and 2018 (when you are still a member), but not in 2019 (As you would have left).

    Conversely, if you invoke in January 2017 and take exactly 2 years then you would have to pay in 2019 as well so there is an incentive to invoke at the end of the year.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    surbiton said:

    So what happens to Nadine now ? Having Criticised Cameron and Osborne for being posh-boys, then Boris leaves her high and dry.

    So, what is this Boris scandal ?

    It's been hidden in plain sight for weeks. The carefully crafted Amber Rudd jibe in the first debate.
    Go on .... give us a clue.
    If there was any dirt on Boris, they'd have splashed it in the papers during the referendum. This is just smearing.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Mr. Llama, it's part one of a trilogy of civil war and intra-faction conflict, which I fear is looking a bit mild compared to modern British politics.

    More dead nuns, though.

    Anyway, I must be off. Given what happened the last time I was away, one shudders to think what may transpire in my absence.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,340
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pong said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pong said:

    MaxPB said:

    What would be a decent interval for Gove to withdraw and endorse May?

    Think we are seeing a Michael Howard style coronation being orchestrated. The Tory party can have amazing audacity (why did i doubt that).

    Poor Boris career ended the day he accidentally won the referendum he wanted to lose well. There is nothing for him now - even Heseltine has his various regeneration successes and stellar business career to look back on. A full Sebastain Flyte style future beckons for the blond one.

    He'll knock Leadsom and Fox out then drop out leaving her to go up against Crabb.
    Why wouldn't he go all the way?

    He's likely to be very competitive vs. May on the membership ballot.

    Why would he drop out?
    He doesn't want the leadership, just to keep Boris out.
    Why would he not want the leadership?
    He's said it. A lot.
    You don't seriously think that's an impediment do you ?
    The manner in which is has said it is why he won't get it or doesn't want it. He has previously said that he isn't up to the job. How will that play with the voters if he becomes leader and Labour have sorted themselves out?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,161

    surbiton said:

    So what happens to Nadine now ? Having Criticised Cameron and Osborne for being posh-boys, then Boris leaves her high and dry.

    So, what is this Boris scandal ?

    It's been hidden in plain sight for weeks. The carefully crafted Amber Rudd jibe in the first debate.
    Go on .... give us a clue.
    If there was any dirt on Boris, they'd have splashed it in the papers during the referendum. This is just smearing.
    Not if the papers were for Leave.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Boris out, hard to see past May now especially given her convincing lead in the members' poll yesterday and Gove's previous statements that he 'is not up to the job'

    If there's one final, final twist in all of this it could be Andrea Leadsom swooping in from nowhere?
    There is bound to be a Leave candidate in the final two, Leadsom has more appeal than Fox and Gove and could be that candidate. Though Yougov showed May would still beat Leadsom with members
    Leadership contests can take on a life of their own though. You don't know what might happen on the hustings and of course they'll be a TV debate on Question Time at some point...
    Only if it gets that far. Gove/Leadsome might have had enough of live debates and campaigning. May, on the other hand, has had a few weeks off!
  • YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740
    Is May's language on ECHR code for something else ' it divides people and there is no parliamentary majority for it '. What other current issue could be described like that I wonder ?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    @LouiseMensch

    Can the news stop for five minutes must wash hair

    Sleazy, greasy Mensch on the slide.
    All shoulders - no head!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896
    JohnO said:

    So, farewell then useful idiot.

    The Establishment is truly brutal.

    But the Gove/Murdoch/Dacre axis is more sinister.
    Indeed. Imagine having SV listening to MG’s mutterings after meeting POTUS. Whoever the latter is!
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Quick question, as I'm thinking of playing the Article 50 market.

    We now know it won't be invoked in 2016 (assuming a May victory). So can we assume Q1 2017?

    Possible curveball: May is not able to get it through parliament as europhile Tories rebel on a technicality (i.e. assurances from EU not good enough etc). Result: considerable delay.

    Is Q3 2017 therefore value at 20/1?

    https://www.skybet.com/politics/european-politics/event/19451469

    Liam Fox made the point on the Sunday Politics, that the EU budget runs Jan-Dec, so you'd want to invoke article 50 so the clock ran out in or before Dec.
    Explain why that is relevant (not saying it isn't but I simply don't follow the logic).
    Article 50 starts a two year clock. You don't want that clock to runout in february, and leave you on the hook for 12 months contribution to the EU budget.
    Awful month for decisions, December. Lose around two weeks due to Christmas.
    That's true as well, another reason why the 5/2 on Q4 2016 is maybe too short.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449

    May ditches another manifesto pledge.

    James Landale ‏@BBCJLandale 3h3 hours ago
    Important: Theresa May ditches plan to pull UK out of ECHR - says it divides people & has no parliamentary majority

    Good. Sanity has prevailed.
  • RealBritainRealBritain Posts: 255
    JohnO said:

    So, farewell then useful idiot.

    The Establishment is truly brutal.

    But the Gove/Murdoch/Dacre axis is more sinister.
    It's obviousness may weaken it, one might only hope.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,161

    Is May's language on ECHR code for something else ' it divides people and there is no parliamentary majority for it '. What other current issue could be described like that I wonder ?

    ECHR membership was not put to a referendum of the people. Plus she just said "brexit means brexit"
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,418
    I've heard a rumour from a very reliable source.

    PM Gove would keep Ozzy as Chancellor.

    I might have to defect from Team Theresa to Team Gove
This discussion has been closed.