@JohnRentoul: In normal times, Corbyn's comparison of Israeli govt to Isis would lead news for days & force his resignation.
NOTHING will force him to resign, they need the metaphorical firing squad.
Reminds everyone how despicable he is (waiting for NPXMPX2's version of what he really meant).
All this talk of being a "broken man" might otherwise have engendered a modicum of sympathy in a not-very-paying-attention, but generally underdog-liking British public.
I'll vote for anyone that refuses to give Osborne and Soubry cabinet positions.
I'm optimistic Soubry has fucked her career by being so close to Mr Cameron. Not sure anyone would touch her now.
She's graceless, rude, vulgar and gobby. She makes Alan B'Stard look appealing.
"Why should we, the country that produced Shakespeare, Christopher Wren - and those are just the people on our banknotes for Christ's sake - cower down to the countries that produced Hitler, Napoleon, the Mafia, and the... the... The Smurfs!" - Alan B'Stard.
@paulwaugh: MP: "The most extraordinary act of treachery. Michael will never win this elxn. When ppl realise what he's done, he'll never win anything"
Funny, I heard earlier in the week from someone in the know that Gove is regarded by very many as a grade one sh1t whose elaborate facade of exquisite courtesy is just that. Well, today, everyone knows that.
Well you know how I loathe disloyalty, I'm never going to be on Team Gove
Funny, that that is what I was thinking of Gove, and the fact his wife is working him from behind.
I might have to rejoin the Tories to stop Gove getting it if he ends up on the final two.
@paulwaugh: MP: "The most extraordinary act of treachery. Michael will never win this elxn. When ppl realise what he's done, he'll never win anything"
Funny, I heard earlier in the week from someone in the know that Gove is regarded by very many as a grade one sh1t whose elaborate facade of exquisite courtesy is just that. Well, today, everyone knows that.
We can, I think, say for certain that Gove doesn't really want to be Prime Minister. So what's he up to?
Clearly he doesn't have faith in Boris to fulfill Brexit, but would Theresa really be any better?
The more I think about it, the more I have a feeling he's setting this up for Andrea Leadsom. Yes, she's inexperienced and as pointed out "nobody has ever heard of her" so who would then become "the power behind the throne"?
Michael Gove... Get's to control the government without the bother of being Prime Minsiter.
@paulwaugh: MP: "The most extraordinary act of treachery. Michael will never win this elxn. When ppl realise what he's done, he'll never win anything"
Funny, I heard earlier in the week from someone in the know that Gove is regarded by very many as a grade one sh1t whose elaborate facade of exquisite courtesy is just that. Well, today, everyone knows that.
Well you know how I loathe treachery, I'm never going to be on Team Gove
On the Labour Party travails Eagle would be bonkers to make a bid. The MP's need to keep their ground until McDonnell offers a different candidate to represent the left.....ie himself which in turn must be guaranteed by the MP's.
If McDonnell wins, he has the capacity of being a lefty Wilson; an operator and player.
I'll vote for anyone that refuses to give Osborne and Soubry cabinet positions.
I'm optimistic Soubry has fucked her career by being so close to Mr Cameron. Not sure anyone would touch her now.
She's graceless, rude, vulgar and gobby. She makes Alan B'Stard look appealing.
"Why should we, the country that produced Shakespeare, Christopher Wren - and those are just the people on our banknotes for Christ's sake - cower down to the countries that produced Hitler, Napoleon, the Mafia, and the... the... The Smurfs!" - Alan B'Stard.
On the Labour Party travails Eagle would be bonkers to make a bid. The MP's need to keep their ground until McDonnell offers a different candidate to represent the left.....ie himself which in turn must be guaranteed by the MP's.
If McDonnell wins, he has the capacity of being a lefty Wilson; an operator and player.
Hillary needs to announce David Miliband will be in her team.
I will say now that I very much hope May's diabetes isn't raised during the campaign. She was diagnosed with it relatively late in life and has learned to deal with it.
Shades of 'I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him'? Or more "Don't mention the war!"?
@paulwaugh: MP: "The most extraordinary act of treachery. Michael will never win this elxn. When ppl realise what he's done, he'll never win anything"
Funny, I heard earlier in the week from someone in the know that Gove is regarded by very many as a grade one sh1t whose elaborate facade of exquisite courtesy is just that. Well, today, everyone knows that.
Well you know how I loathe disloyalty, I'm never going to be on Team Gove
Funny, that that is what I was thinking of Gove, and the fact his wife is working him from behind.
I might have to rejoin the Tories to stop Gove getting it if he ends up on the final two.
Frankly Mrs May is now the standout candidate.
Think it's too late to join. Need to have been in for three months.
You're assuming that Cameron did a good job on the negotiation.
As previously posted my intelligence was that he didn't put the effort in..
My intelligence - from someone actually on the negotiating team - was the exact opposite.
It's time to grow up abut this. The limitations of the negotiation were due to the political realities. Those haven't changed. Obviously the deal we will end up will now be different, since we're leaving the EU, but the terms certainly won't be better. How could they possibly be?
Oh Anna is madder than that box of frogs (sic), loopily barking and all that, but still incomparably preferable to the Priti Patels of the party.
Agreed on Anna vs Pritti.
On the Gove is a copper bottomed shit.....I know someone whose very good friend of one of the Whitehall Manderins (one of those Oxford things...everyone knows someone)....they (he or she) said that out of all the ministers of state they worked for, Gove was the most horrible. The nicest....Alistair Darling.
I'll vote for anyone that refuses to give Osborne and Soubry cabinet positions.
I'm optimistic Soubry has fucked her career by being so close to Mr Cameron. Not sure anyone would touch her now.
She's graceless, rude, vulgar and gobby. She makes Alan B'Stard look appealing.
"Why should we, the country that produced Shakespeare, Christopher Wren - and those are just the people on our banknotes for Christ's sake - cower down to the countries that produced Hitler, Napoleon, the Mafia, and the... the... The Smurfs!" - Alan B'Stard.
You're assuming that Cameron did a good job on the negotiation.
As previously posted my intelligence was that he didn't put the effort in..
My intelligence - from someone actually on the negotiating team - was the exact opposite.
It's time to grow up abut this. The limitations of the negotiation were due to the political realities. Those haven't changed. Obviously the deal we will end up will now be different, since we're leaving the EU, but the terms certainly won't be better. How could they possibly be?
Is it not worse that he did put the effort in then get virtually nothing and certainly not enough from his efforts ?
You're assuming that Cameron did a good job on the negotiation.
As previously posted my intelligence was that he didn't put the effort in..
My intelligence - from someone actually on the negotiating team - was the exact opposite.
It's time to grow up abut this. The limitations of the negotiation were due to the political realities. Those haven't changed. Obviously the deal we will end up will now be different, since we're leaving the EU, but the terms certainly won't be better. How could they possibly be?
On the Labour Party travails Eagle would be bonkers to make a bid. The MP's need to keep their ground until McDonnell offers a different candidate to represent the left.....ie himself which in turn must be guaranteed by the MP's.
If McDonnell wins, he has the capacity of being a lefty Wilson; an operator and player.
Hillary needs to announce David Miliband will be in her team.
I'm sorry Pulps- but what has that got to do with the price of fish?
On the Labour Party travails Eagle would be bonkers to make a bid. The MP's need to keep their ground until McDonnell offers a different candidate to represent the left.....ie himself which in turn must be guaranteed by the MP's.
If McDonnell wins, he has the capacity of being a lefty Wilson; an operator and player.
Exactly right on the strategy. Labour would be insane to allow Corbyn back on to the ballot through the incumbency rule. People are saying they aren't ruthless enough but actually the ruthless position is just smoking him out. If Eagle (or anyone else) makes a bid then Corbyn automatically goes back on to the ballot, which will take the pressure off him.
It's an insane system, but only because Corbyn is defying all parliamentary protocol and any sense of honour.
Smoke him out.
P.S. Not sure about your JM endorsement by the way!
On the Labour Party travails Eagle would be bonkers to make a bid. The MP's need to keep their ground until McDonnell offers a different candidate to represent the left.....ie himself which in turn must be guaranteed by the MP's.
If McDonnell wins, he has the capacity of being a lefty Wilson; an operator and player.
Hillary needs to announce David Miliband will be in her team.
I'm sorry Pulps- but what has that got to do with the price of fish?
Well I'd like to reback him at some point in the next few months to get back the cash I'm laying him with
You're assuming that Cameron did a good job on the negotiation.
As previously posted my intelligence was that he didn't put the effort in..
My intelligence - from someone actually on the negotiating team - was the exact opposite.
It's time to grow up abut this. The limitations of the negotiation were due to the political realities. Those haven't changed. Obviously the deal we will end up will now be different, since we're leaving the EU, but the terms certainly won't be better. How could they possibly be?
The other side thought it was a cracking deal for the UK and they were uncomfortable about doing it. It's one reason they aren't prepared to put anything into keeping the UK on board now. Rightly or wrongly.
So what happens to Nadine now ? Having Criticised Cameron and Osborne for being posh-boys, then Boris leaves her high and dry.
So, what is this Boris scandal ?
He never goes all the way?
Try to source the accusation that Boris Johnson is a "Putin apologist". It surfaced during the referendum campaign. I mean who actually first called him that. What named person or specific office expressed the opinion? There's no clear answer. That's a hallmark.
Meanwhile the French National Front is known to be financially supported by the Kremlin.
Keir Giles of Chatham House: "Unlike in Soviet times, Russia is no longer restricted in its choice of foreign friends by considerations of ideology, and one notable result is a surge in links with right-wing and anti-EU parties".
That isn't some loony writing on some silly website somewhere.
The fact that Johnson has difficulty keeping his knob in his trousers - not unusual among politicians - is icing on the cake.
So is the fact that he got himself taped discussing with Darius Guppy having someone beaten up. (The tape is here.)
A third possible route for bringing him down...well, the Tories decided they didn't want Michael Portillo as their leader too. Portillo and Johnson are as English and as British as anyone, but from some Tories' point of view, they aren't. "I am a liberal cosmopolitan and my family is a genetic UN peacekeeping force" didn't play well.
Despite the referendum result, Johnson's future was precarious. So glad I laid him.
I think I will stay out of the Tory leadership market now. Michael Gove was adopted and has no blood family background in the normal sense, and to judge from what his wife says he is indecently ambitious. That may suggest that he will do exactly what he is told, so he may be exactly the sort of person the insiders want.
Theresa May is the darling of the party itself. Is it true that she is a type 1 diabetic, by the way?
Either of them could win.
She is indeed a Type 1 diabetic and I believe a teetotaller. Not sure why either matter, or if they are connected, but there it is.
Theresa MAY a teetotaller? That is serious. One lesson my father drummed into me early and hard, be very, very careful around people who do not take a drink. Over the years I have found the guvnor's advice to be generally sound.
Lol.
Meanwhile Gove appears to be a sleeper (just woken) for the worst of our press barons?
You're assuming that Cameron did a good job on the negotiation.
As previously posted my intelligence was that he didn't put the effort in..
My intelligence - from someone actually on the negotiating team - was the exact opposite.
It's time to grow up abut this. The limitations of the negotiation were due to the political realities. Those haven't changed. Obviously the deal we will end up will now be different, since we're leaving the EU, but the terms certainly won't be better. How could they possibly be?
Because we are leaving.
Previously it was seen as an unlikely outcome.
Now it's a question of what do they need to do to give us to keep us in the Single Market. It seems to me that a compromise on FoM is what could do it. They couldn't do that while we were still in the EU,
I like in the notes sections of Powerpoint presentations. Hardly anyone ever looks at those.
Only really works if sign off within the meeting is final - I've been caught out there before. You can get away with it as the boss, harder if dealing with external parties (even different departments).
As such I now prefer piles of utterly boring waffle (get juniors to write it) and ensure the bits are hidden in the document somewhere..
Personally, I prefer openness and honesty. If you know what the risk is, you can manage it.
So what happens to Nadine now ? Having Criticised Cameron and Osborne for being posh-boys, then Boris leaves her high and dry.
So, what is this Boris scandal ?
He never goes all the way?
Try to source the accusation that Boris Johnson is a "Putin apologist". It surfaced during the referendum campaign. I mean who actually first called him that. What named person or specific office expressed the opinion? There's no clear answer. That's a hallmark.
Meanwhile the French National Front is known to be financially supported by the Kremlin.
Keir Giles of Chatham House: "Unlike in Soviet times, Russia is no longer restricted in its choice of foreign friends by considerations of ideology, and one notable result is a surge in links with right-wing and anti-EU parties".
That isn't some loony writing on some silly website somewhere.
The fact that Johnson has difficulty keeping his knob in his trousers - not unusual among politicians - is icing on the cake.
So is the fact that he got himself taped discussing with Darius Guppy having someone beaten up. (The tape is here.)
A third possible route for bringing him down...well, the Tories decided they didn't want Michael Portillo as their leader too. Portillo and Johnson are as English and as British as anyone, but from some Tories' point of view, they aren't. "I am a liberal cosmopolitan and my family is a genetic UN peacekeeping force" didn't play well.
Despite the referendum result, Johnson's future was precarious. So glad I laid him.
I think I will stay out of the Tory leadership market now. Michael Gove was adopted and has no blood family background in the normal sense, and to judge from what his wife says he is indecently ambitious. That may suggest that he will do exactly what he is told, so he may be exactly the sort of person the insiders want.
Theresa May is the darling of the party itself. Is it true that she is a type 1 diabetic, by the way?
Either of them could win.
She is indeed a Type 1 diabetic and I believe a teetotaller. Not sure why either matter, or if they are connected, but there it is.
Theresa MAY a teetotaller? That is serious. One lesson my father drummed into me early and hard, be very, very careful around people who do not take a drink. Over the years I have found the guvnor's advice to be generally sound.
Lol.
Meanwhile Gove appears to be a sleeper (just woken) for the worst of our press barons?
No-one has ever heard of [Andrea Leadsom], beyond a few political anoraks and some obsessive Leavers.
Yes, I think that is quite right. People shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that typical Conservative Party members follow politics as closely as we do. Most of them will barely if at all have heard of her. Similarly, they'll have only a hazy knowledge of who Stephen Crabb is.
Of course, the campaign will change that to an extent.
On the Labour Party travails Eagle would be bonkers to make a bid. The MP's need to keep their ground until McDonnell offers a different candidate to represent the left.....ie himself which in turn must be guaranteed by the MP's.
If McDonnell wins, he has the capacity of being a lefty Wilson; an operator and player.
PLEASE choose him.
I might not have Labour's best interests at heart though........
Even though I had Boris as a -ve I don't like him pulling out as it shortens Leadsome. He's cost me probably £40 directly and indirectly this morning.
Leadsom is neck and neck with Gove for second favourite. Crabb and Fox are outsiders.
Bettingwise Leadsome my worst result. Politically she'd make the next GE very very interesting.
At the mo its looking like Gove vs May in the final. I like Ms Leadsom, but I'm not confident she can make the final two.
One wrinkle, there were reports that gov't whips (Cameron and Osborne) were backing Ms May , and Mr Gove is supposed to be their pal. Will her support move to Gove?
Having blocked Boris, I think Gove might now withdraw in return for Secretary of State for Brexit under May. That leaves May versus Leadsom or possibly Crabb. They don't have a chance and could also withdraw. I can see this being a May coronation.
No. I think Mr Gove is a true believer in Leave, and if he stands down it would be to support another Leave candidate. I think that means Leadsom.
That said, Gove vs Leadsom would be my ideal final two.
Just trying to think ahead - Fox isn't going to make it, does his vote go to May or Gove or Leadsom? If Leadsom goes out where do her votes go? Ditto Gove?
Fox, Leadsom and Gove are committed principled Leavers.
If she can get into the final two with Theresa I think Andrea Leadson could spring a surprise.
There will be "hustings" TV debates, etc.... And Theresa doesn't really "do" charisma or charm.
Andrea is sunny, positive but also sensible and she was on the LEAVE side. Just depends if she can make it into the last two.
No-one has ever heard of her, beyond a few political anoraks and some obsessive Leavers.
On the Labour Party travails Eagle would be bonkers to make a bid. The MP's need to keep their ground until McDonnell offers a different candidate to represent the left.....ie himself which in turn must be guaranteed by the MP's.
If McDonnell wins, he has the capacity of being a lefty Wilson; an operator and player.
Exactly right on the strategy. Labour would be insane to allow Corbyn back on to the ballot through the incumbency rule. People are saying they aren't ruthless enough but actually the ruthless position is just smoking him out. If Eagle (or anyone else) makes a bid then Corbyn automatically goes back on to the ballot, which will take the pressure off him.
It's an insane system, but only because Corbyn is defying all parliamentary protocol and any sense of honour.
Smoke him out.
P.S. Not sure about your JM endorsement by the way!
It's not an endorsement, it's a reflection of reality. I am a Chukka and David Miliband boy, but god if I said that in front of the Labour party members I'd be lynched.
No-one has ever heard of [Andrea Leadsom], beyond a few political anoraks and some obsessive Leavers.
Yes, I think that is quite right. People shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that typical Conservative Party members follow politics as closely as we do. Most of them will barely if at all have heard of her. Similarly, they'll have only a hazy knowledge of who Stephen Crabb is.
Of course, the campaign will change that to an extent.
Well, until they sink back into the obscurity of also rans in a few days....
@paulwaugh: Pro-JC Lab source: "Where Eagles Daren't...that's the movie title. Even she's not sure if she should run. Shes's a second rung Brownite"
The Labour Party is completely destroyed. They should shut up shop.
The entire Labour party should be sent off for an emergency session of bayonet practice, just to show 'em how its done.
The Tories have been assassinating potential leaders left and right, while Labour are demonstrating once again that they can't find their own arses with both hands, a flashlight and a map.
On the Labour Party travails Eagle would be bonkers to make a bid. The MP's need to keep their ground until McDonnell offers a different candidate to represent the left.....ie himself which in turn must be guaranteed by the MP's.
If McDonnell wins, he has the capacity of being a lefty Wilson; an operator and player.
Hillary needs to announce David Miliband will be in her team.
I'm sorry Pulps- but what has that got to do with the price of fish?
Well I'd like to reback him at some point in the next few months to get back the cash I'm laying him with
On the Labour Party travails Eagle would be bonkers to make a bid. The MP's need to keep their ground until McDonnell offers a different candidate to represent the left.....ie himself which in turn must be guaranteed by the MP's.
If McDonnell wins, he has the capacity of being a lefty Wilson; an operator and player.
Hillary needs to announce David Miliband will be in her team.
I'm sorry Pulps- but what has that got to do with the price of fish?
Well I'd like to reback him at some point in the next few months to get back the cash I'm laying him with
You're assuming that Cameron did a good job on the negotiation.
As previously posted my intelligence was that he didn't put the effort in..
My intelligence - from someone actually on the negotiating team - was the exact opposite.
It's time to grow up abut this. The limitations of the negotiation were due to the political realities. Those haven't changed. Obviously the deal we will end up will now be different, since we're leaving the EU, but the terms certainly won't be better. How could they possibly be?
Yeah, like someone on the negotiating team is going to admit they monumentally fucked up...!
You're assuming that Cameron did a good job on the negotiation.
As previously posted my intelligence was that he didn't put the effort in..
My intelligence - from someone actually on the negotiating team - was the exact opposite.
It's time to grow up abut this. The limitations of the negotiation were due to the political realities. Those haven't changed. Obviously the deal we will end up will now be different, since we're leaving the EU, but the terms certainly won't be better. How could they possibly be?
Is it not worse that he did put the effort in then get virtually nothing and certainly not enough from his efforts ?
This is a pre-vote exchange but it was not nothing. It was a significant achievement within the bounds of what could ever be achieved.
I don't buy the Charles line that if we had spent six months negotiating we would have got what we wanted. Too glib an explanation.
Plus you can see the value of it in the way that Juncker couldn't clarify quickly enough how it was now invalid.
Now it's a question of what do they need to do to give us to keep us in the Single Market. It seems to me that a compromise on FoM is what could do it. They couldn't do that while we were still in the EU,
They don't want to keep us in the Single Market as much as we want to stay in the Single Market. In particular, they don't really care a toss if we are excluded from the Single Market in Services (and especially Financial Services), whereas for us it's the most important aspect of the whole thing. In fact some of them would be delighted if we weren't. It's an extremely weak position. On the other side of the coin, they have a political imperative not to make the deal too attractive.
Still, I'm confident that Theresa May will salvage as much as anyone can from the wreckage. Her no-nonsense style and lack of theatricals is exactly right for this kind of negotiation. (Thank God it's not Boris!). She seems to have immediately realised that the threat of delaying Article 50 gives us a smidgen of leverage (although it's self-harm leverage). With a lot of luck, we'll end up with some face-saving deal of FoM and not too much damage on Services. I expect Financial Passporting is a goner, though.
Anything happened in the last 90 minutes? Still five running for the Tories and no-one for Labour?
Maybe Boris should defect to Labour and challenge for that leadership instead.
Perhaps he could run for President in 2020 as the candidate for whichever party loses in November, after all he was born in the US. Giuliani ran in 2008 after having been New York Mayor and London Mayor is just as big a job. Labour or Tory, GOP or Dem, Leave or Remain Boris is flexible enough to stand for whatever best suits his ambitions. He only backed Leave after writing a Remain and Leave article and deciding which was best!
@paulwaugh: Pro-JC Lab source: "Where Eagles Daren't...that's the movie title. Even she's not sure if she should run. Shes's a second rung Brownite"
The Labour Party is completely destroyed. They should shut up shop.
They are a hostage to the £3 and some of them seem to have Stockholm Syndrome.
Somebody needs to grow a set.
Once again for the hard of hearing: THERE IS NO MECHANISM UNDER THE RULES FOR REMOVING CORBYN
The only way is to crank up the pressure until eventually he resigns. Today would have been that day (perhaps) with his disgusting Israel comments but the Tory leadership election has taken all the oxygen from the news cycle.
Until someone can get in there and change the rules so this doesn't happen again, the PLP has no choice but to try to smoke him out.
I'll vote for anyone that refuses to give Osborne and Soubry cabinet positions.
I'm optimistic Soubry has fucked her career by being so close to Mr Cameron. Not sure anyone would touch her now.
She's graceless, rude, vulgar and gobby. She makes Alan B'Stard look appealing.
If you don't like her she must be good.
I haven't backed the losing side in a couple of decades.
So, May or Gove?
I need to see their pitches - only watched May so far. She was strong - but I'm not convinced, yet.
May was very good this morning. Hopefully we will see some hustings before the MPs start voting, then some more detailed policy speeches from the final two before the ballots go out to us.
No-one has ever heard of [Andrea Leadsom], beyond a few political anoraks and some obsessive Leavers.
Yes, I think that is quite right. People shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that typical Conservative Party members follow politics as closely as we do. Most of them will barely if at all have heard of her. Similarly, they'll have only a hazy knowledge of who Stephen Crabb is.
Of course, the campaign will change that to an extent.
Any markets on when Boris will stand down as an MP?
If I was Boris I'd hang around for a few months and hope the next lot in, be it May or Gove, fucking things up royally then he can step in and save the day.
You're assuming that Cameron did a good job on the negotiation.
As previously posted my intelligence was that he didn't put the effort in..
My intelligence - from someone actually on the negotiating team - was the exact opposite.
It's time to grow up abut this. The limitations of the negotiation were due to the political realities. Those haven't changed. Obviously the deal we will end up will now be different, since we're leaving the EU, but the terms certainly won't be better. How could they possibly be?
Because we are leaving.
Previously it was seen as an unlikely outcome.
Now it's a question of what do they need to do to give us to keep us in the Single Market. It seems to me that a compromise on FoM is what could do it. They couldn't do that while we were still in the EU,
From the point of view of the rEU, Britain is like the key employee who demands a hefty pay rise or otherwise he will be off. So the employer makes a counter offer that this employee turns down. Everyone knows he is on the way out but he hasn't actually handed his notice in yet. The company is moving forward, making new appointments to plug the gaps etc. They don't owe him any favours and are feeling pretty sore about it all. On the other hand they don't want to antagonise him because he could cause trouble. That employee doesn't have a lot of bargaining power in this situation
Rather depressing. Don't get me wrong, a billion times less depressing than Cameron and being in the EU. But still. Not a fan of May - no problem with her presentationally or in terms of work ethic, but very authoritarian tendencies.
But Osborne would be far more depressing.
That goes without saying.
And yet everyone is saying it - you can smell the fear
You're assuming that Cameron did a good job on the negotiation.
As previously posted my intelligence was that he didn't put the effort in..
My intelligence - from someone actually on the negotiating team - was the exact opposite.
It's time to grow up abut this. The limitations of the negotiation were due to the political realities. Those haven't changed. Obviously the deal we will end up will now be different, since we're leaving the EU, but the terms certainly won't be better. How could they possibly be?
Because we are leaving.
Previously it was seen as an unlikely outcome.
Now it's a question of what do they need to do to give us to keep us in the Single Market. It seems to me that a compromise on FoM is what could do it. They couldn't do that while we were still in the EU,
From the point of view of the rEU, Britain is like the key employee who demands a hefty pay rise or otherwise he will be off. So the employer makes a counter offer that this employee turns down. Everyone knows he is on the way out but he hasn't actually handed his notice in yet. The company is moving forward, making new appointments to plug the gaps etc. They don't owe him any favours and are feeling pretty sore about it all. On the other hand they don't want to antagonise him because he could cause trouble. That employee doesn't have a lot of bargaining power in this situation
That analogy ignores the fact that the EU will still trade with the UK after exit.
"Last Sunday, a Polish father and son lay bloodied on the floor after being attacked and told to “go back home” in Upton Park, East London"
Oh dear, not a good start for Karen Pollock of the Holocaust Educational Trust, the Police have investigated this case and dismissed it as a drunken assault, even family members of the father and son have dismissed any conection with Britex as it was between two polish men and a polish gypsy.
Rather depressing. Don't get me wrong, a billion times less depressing than Cameron and being in the EU. But still. Not a fan of May - no problem with her presentationally or in terms of work ethic, but very authoritarian tendencies.
But Osborne would be far more depressing.
That goes without saying.
And yet everyone is saying it - you can smell the fear
Yes - for his physical health and mental wellbeing.
No-one has ever heard of [Andrea Leadsom], beyond a few political anoraks and some obsessive Leavers.
Yes, I think that is quite right. People shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that typical Conservative Party members follow politics as closely as we do. Most of them will barely if at all have heard of her. Similarly, they'll have only a hazy knowledge of who Stephen Crabb is.
Of course, the campaign will change that to an extent.
How many people knew who Cameron was?
Almost none. But changing leader in opposition when you're completely out of contention is very different to changing leader when in office, let alone when in office at a time of crisis. And of course Crabb and Leadsom are not in the Cameron class.
I will say now that I very much hope May's diabetes isn't raised during the campaign. She was diagnosed with it relatively late in life and has learned to deal with it.
Shades of 'I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him'? Or more "Don't mention the war!"?
I am reminded of John Gielgud when on tour in rep. He was asked how he liked the town.
I'll vote for anyone that refuses to give Osborne and Soubry cabinet positions.
I'm optimistic Soubry has fucked her career by being so close to Mr Cameron. Not sure anyone would touch her now.
She's graceless, rude, vulgar and gobby. She makes Alan B'Stard look appealing.
If you don't like her she must be good.
Lol. The Leave crowd are struggling with their alliances today - the thought that Ozzy may be in the background pulling strings is very disturbing for them - he hasn't been linked to Angela ....yet.
The Independent: Jewish Labour MP Ruth Smeeth leaves antisemitism event in tears after being accused of 'colluding' with media. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwsvaX6CU
You're assuming that Cameron did a good job on the negotiation.
As previously posted my intelligence was that he didn't put the effort in..
My intelligence - from someone actually on the negotiating team - was the exact opposite.
It's time to grow up abut this. The limitations of the negotiation were due to the political realities. Those haven't changed. Obviously the deal we will end up will now be different, since we're leaving the EU, but the terms certainly won't be better. How could they possibly be?
Because we are leaving.
Previously it was seen as an unlikely outcome.
Now it's a question of what do they need to do to give us to keep us in the Single Market. It seems to me that a compromise on FoM is what could do it. They couldn't do that while we were still in the EU,
From the point of view of the rEU, Britain is like the key employee who demands a hefty pay rise or otherwise he will be off. So the employer makes a counter offer that this employee turns down. Everyone knows he is on the way out but he hasn't actually handed his notice in yet. The company is moving forward, making new appointments to plug the gaps etc. They don't owe him any favours and are feeling pretty sore about it all. On the other hand they don't want to antagonise him because he could cause trouble. That employee doesn't have a lot of bargaining power in this situation
That analogy ignores the fact that the EU will still trade with the UK after exit.
Yeah, fair enough. The EU trades with South Korea too and doesn't strain itself to give that country favourable trading conditions.
Corbyn should be suspended for the disgraceful scenes today. Not only his disgusting Israel comments but for the fact he stood ideally by while Momentum's Red BNP wing decided to abuse a Jewish Labour MP.
You're assuming that Cameron did a good job on the negotiation.
As previously posted my intelligence was that he didn't put the effort in..
My intelligence - from someone actually on the negotiating team - was the exact opposite.
It's time to grow up abut this. The limitations of the negotiation were due to the political realities. Those haven't changed. Obviously the deal we will end up will now be different, since we're leaving the EU, but the terms certainly won't be better. How could they possibly be?
Yeah, like someone on the negotiating team is going to admit they monumentally fucked up...!
It was quite early on in the process. But dream on.
No-one has ever heard of [Andrea Leadsom], beyond a few political anoraks and some obsessive Leavers.
Yes, I think that is quite right. People shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that typical Conservative Party members follow politics as closely as we do. Most of them will barely if at all have heard of her. Similarly, they'll have only a hazy knowledge of who Stephen Crabb is.
Of course, the campaign will change that to an extent.
She features in Prtivate Eye sometimes. Not alway in the best light.
Anyone else reckon McDonnell could be slyly gathering signatures ?
"If you want to continue the true Labour project..."
The only Labourite that has enough low cunning and ruthlessness to knife Jezza maybe,...
He's going to need a few Labour MPs to leave the party to get the required percentage.
Corbyn could remove the whip from a few Labour MPs and bring that required number of signatures down a bit
In which case he would split the party as the PLP rebellion would split and appoint a leader in the Commons, and it would be JM that did it. Way to go!
If Boris had backed remain, Cameron could have kept a more neutral air to the campaign, and not destroyed his own credibility, only intervening occasionally and being taken more seriously when he did so. There would have been less project fear and so when used towards the end it would count. Boris could have taken a leading positive role in the campaign, and against a leave side sorely lacking in popular big hitters, remain would have most likely won. Boris takes the credit, along with Osborne, and when Cameron steps down in 2018-19, a vote to the members between the 2 results in an obvious Boris victory - the man who won the Tories London twice and won the eu referendum is a sure fire electoral asset.
Boris' decision to back Leave has got to count as the second biggest misjudgement since Suez (Cameron's decision to hold the referendum in the first place would take first place!)
Comments
All this talk of being a "broken man" might otherwise have engendered a modicum of sympathy in a not-very-paying-attention, but generally underdog-liking British public.
I might have to rejoin the Tories to stop Gove getting it if he ends up on the final two.
Frankly Mrs May is now the standout candidate.
Clearly he doesn't have faith in Boris to fulfill Brexit, but would Theresa really be any better?
The more I think about it, the more I have a feeling he's setting this up for Andrea Leadsom. Yes, she's inexperienced and as pointed out "nobody has ever heard of her" so who would then become "the power behind the throne"?
Michael Gove... Get's to control the government without the bother of being Prime Minsiter.
Hmmmmmm....
If McDonnell wins, he has the capacity of being a lefty Wilson; an operator and player.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/30/not-too-late-negotiate-way-out-disaster-take-courage?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
It's time to grow up abut this. The limitations of the negotiation were due to the political realities. Those haven't changed. Obviously the deal we will end up will now be different, since we're leaving the EU, but the terms certainly won't be better. How could they possibly be?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/30/helmut-kohl-warns-eu-leaders-one-step-back-after-brexit-vote?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
Agreed on Anna vs Pritti.
On the Gove is a copper bottomed shit.....I know someone whose very good friend of one of the Whitehall Manderins (one of those Oxford things...everyone knows someone)....they (he or she) said that out of all the ministers of state they worked for, Gove was the most horrible. The nicest....Alistair Darling.
It's an insane system, but only because Corbyn is defying all parliamentary protocol and any sense of honour.
Smoke him out.
P.S. Not sure about your JM endorsement by the way!
The Labour Party is completely destroyed. They should shut up shop.
Very good, but why am I not surprised that you managed to get a WW2 reference in?
Meanwhile Gove appears to be a sleeper (just woken) for the worst of our press barons?
Previously it was seen as an unlikely outcome.
Now it's a question of what do they need to do to give us to keep us in the Single Market. It seems to me that a compromise on FoM is what could do it. They couldn't do that while we were still in the EU,
Of course, the campaign will change that to an extent.
I might not have Labour's best interests at heart though........
Ни шагу назад!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_No._227
"If you want to continue the true Labour project..."
The only Labourite that has enough low cunning and ruthlessness to knife Jezza maybe,...
Somebody needs to grow a set.
'Or "Labour are fecking useless'
Eagle needs to shit or get off the pot.
The Tories have been assassinating potential leaders left and right, while Labour are demonstrating once again that they can't find their own arses with both hands, a flashlight and a map.
Where Eagles Daren't - That was my line from yesterday, thank you very much....
I don't buy the Charles line that if we had spent six months negotiating we would have got what we wanted. Too glib an explanation.
Plus you can see the value of it in the way that Juncker couldn't clarify quickly enough how it was now invalid.
All moot now, ofc.
Still, I'm confident that Theresa May will salvage as much as anyone can from the wreckage. Her no-nonsense style and lack of theatricals is exactly right for this kind of negotiation. (Thank God it's not Boris!). She seems to have immediately realised that the threat of delaying Article 50 gives us a smidgen of leverage (although it's self-harm leverage). With a lot of luck, we'll end up with some face-saving deal of FoM and not too much damage on Services. I expect Financial Passporting is a goner, though.
The only way is to crank up the pressure until eventually he resigns. Today would have been that day (perhaps) with his disgusting Israel comments but the Tory leadership election has taken all the oxygen from the news cycle.
Until someone can get in there and change the rules so this doesn't happen again, the PLP has no choice but to try to smoke him out.
Chris Ship
I'm told Boris' widely criticised @Telegraph column - was SUB EDITED by Michael Gove who suggested changes - and Boris put them in
Brilliant.
Oh dear, not a good start for Karen Pollock of the Holocaust Educational Trust, the Police have investigated this case and dismissed it as a drunken assault, even family members of the father and son have dismissed any conection with Britex as it was between two polish men and a polish gypsy.
"I come to Bury St Edmunds not to praise him..."
I await Nick Palmer's verdict on the situation.
Challenge from AN Other (Smith?) gets the 50 sigs.
Then Corbyn agrees to go if McDonnell also gets 50 sigs.
Would the PLP go for that? Or would they hold out (!) for someone like Clive Lewis?
Boris' decision to back Leave has got to count as the second biggest misjudgement since Suez (Cameron's decision to hold the referendum in the first place would take first place!)