Almost inconceivably, my spreadsheet is now showing PP +8, Cs -7, which means that the right wing parties will actually be up on the December election.
Of course, that's nowhere near enough to form an actual government,
Still a hung parliament so settles nothing and still more than half the votes to come
Hah. I always liked Clegg, I feel despite his party being ripped to shreds under his watch history will be kinder to him about how the choices seemed like the right ones at the time.
Oh yes, history will say he did the right thing for the country in 2010.
Long time lurker. Decided to de-lurk for surely the most chaotic moment in British politics in the post-war period.
Three days on, the mood among friends and colleagues (yes, in AB London) is still of grief, anger, disbelief, and derision. But also sober talk of new plans : deferring or abandoning investments & hires; considering relocation or opportunities abroad. The fallout is only beginning and cannot be measured in short-term fluctuations in the FTSE or the pound.
Can I say again what an arrogant failure Cameron is? Who decides a matter of supreme constitutional and economic importance with a simple majority referendum? This is not democracy - and was never intended to be. It was a sham - a tactical display of shadow-puppetry; totally at odds with this country's traditions. He has debauched the constitution, put the Union at risk, broken the economy, and re-toxified the Tories with a vengeance.
I will vote for a Labour leader who can unify, heal - and negotiate hard for this country's interests to stay in the EU or damn well near it (EFTA with knobs on, as Sean T says). I believe he (or she) would win an election on that basis. I say this as life-long Conservative party voter.
Where are all these grief-ridden people? I've been out in London all weekend and life i
In a democracy sometimes you have to accept the side you voted for lost. The country has voted to leave the EU - no ifs, no buts - and it doesn't mean Armageddon. We are not a banana republic: we do not ignore or quash election results or our political opponents.
People need to calm down. Maybe stop checking the news for 5 minutes, go outside, and see that everyday life goes on unchanged.
Tomorrow they'll be as many people talking about the events in Kings Landing as the events in Westminster.
A leaver and a remainer were locked into a deep discussion of just such matters opposite me while I was counting votes in fact - truly a healer of divides.
Edit: Of course, a problem the Seven Kingdoms (which contained 8 distinct entities, btw) had was the realms had too much independence and power, and there was not enough central authority to ensure unity.
I wonder if more integration would be the answer.
Edit Edit: Also, the Andals, First Men and Rhoynar ethnic groups on Westeros never really came together as one multicultural people either, kept separate governing systems, religions in some cases, as they immigrated in. No parallels there.
What you need is a serious leader with a brain and a backbone, not some nutty old Trot with Stalinist advisors. The country is in crisis. Actual proper crisis, probably the biggest we've faced since the war. And the Shadow Cabinet, instead of opposing a clueless government, has decided to slowly resign en masse.
Great.
Get a fecking grip. Serve your nation. And this means people like you getting over your adolescent Corbyn thing and making Labour relevant and electable. We need an Opposition. My god, we need it.
Absolutely spot on. This is no longer about Labour trundling along to a meh kinda defeat in 2020. Our country is in flux, it is rudderless and it needs leadership. A credible opposition that looks like an alternative government is part of that. Nick and other Labour members have to let go of the comfort blanket and think about the bigger picture. If they don't they will kill the Labour party.
The day I take advice from SeanT on Labour Party politics will be the day after hell freezes over. However, if the Shadow Cabinet shares his view and Southam's view, they should be concentrating on the clueless government, not trying to engineer a coup in the teeth of the membership so as to promote who-knows-who to lead the party to support who-knows-what. Rejoin the EU? Invade Syria? Privatise some more? Raise taxes? Lower taxes? Or what?
The fundamental problem of the centre-left is that it has neither a programme nor a leader. Merely wanting to be in government and to oppose the other lot is not a respectable or viable position on its own, as Boris is demonstating at his leisure. Until they get one or preferably both, they will struggle to get a hearing in the membership.
Looking at FB and Twitter the Labour membership is divided on Corbyn. His handling of Remain has pissed a lot of people off.
He is not immune from the "fundamental problem" you point out. He runs on being "decent" and "different", but has no ideas that I can see beyond some reheated 80s guff.
In some ways this is the most bizarre moment of British history that I can ever remember. Feels almost like some sort of vivid dream.
Or a nightmare. A visit from the night hag, who squats on your chest.
Didn't you vote to Leave?
In order to kick the establishment?
What did you expect?
I voted to LEAVE - with great reluctance, anxiety, and sadness, as expressed on here - in expectation of the kind of plan Richard has adduced in the threader. I also expected both my government and the Brexit camp to react calmly to the result, and present their detailed policies within a few hours.
I didn't expect them to hide away. I didn't expect them to say Plan, we didn't have a plan, oh, they should have a plan, oh fuck it, let's take some crystal meth and cider.
I didn't expect Her Majesty's opposition to react to this by drinking a vat of kool aid and committing weird seppuku while their leader conducted his Shadow Cabinet meeting in a Pimlico phonebox, due to the lack of attendants.
I guess I expected too much?
You proclaimed yourself a 100% Leaver. You can't rewrite history that quickly.
I voted Remain but we should now Leave and get on with it, get Andrea Leadsom and Gove to sort it out with Field and Stuart, they were the brains of Leave and have Boris as frontman with Farage as the supporting act.
Exactly.
And you can add Redwood, Carswell and Stringer to the discussions as well
While a second referendum would be politically unpopular with the chattering classes, Can you see the MPs from areas that voted leave by 60% wanting to vote through a deal with one?
Not even slightly - hence why Labour won't back it, and half the Tories were Leavers anyway, so it won't happen.
Probably more than half the Tories are Leavers but many kept quite out of party loyalty of career ambition.
There is a troubling cadre of Tory MPs who told selection committees they were Leavers, then went Remain when Osborne was offering them advancement when he was leader, and who are now going to be crawling back to their electorate saying they are Leavers after all. Unless there is a fudge deal that allows us to Remain.
It's not a very edifying spectacle.
A list of these shits needs to be collated.
I nominate Kelly Tolhurst - Rochester and Strood
Her duplicity is even more egregious, given she was selected by a constituency-wide primary.
In some ways this is the most bizarre moment of British history that I can ever remember. Feels almost like some sort of vivid dream.
Or a nightmare. A visit from the night hag, who squats on your chest.
Didn't you vote to Leave?
In order to kick the establishment?
What did you expect?
Well I'm delighted that I have forced you to froth over it. Don't forget your panic exercises: WE ARE ALL DOOMED.
I'm enjoying the panic from the headless chickens of Remain, much like those who bought shares on Friday.
I am not frothing. I am enjoying the self destruction of the Tory party and the defenestration of Corbyn.
Labour with the right Leader will walk an early election. The Tories have wrecked their reputation as competent.
Which in turn may make an early GE less likely.
I suspect any nervous Con MP who doesn't want a GE may well be tempted to vote for anyone other than Boris.
eg If May becomes PM she is surely much more likely to take a head down, steady as she goes, approach - no GE - calm measured negotiations to exit the EU - claiming mandate already given by 2015 GE and Referendum.
Almost inconceivably, my spreadsheet is now showing PP +8, Cs -7, which means that the right wing parties will actually be up on the December election.
Of course, that's nowhere near enough to form an actual government,
Still a hung parliament so settles nothing and still more than half the votes to come
39% to go, but a chunk of that is Barcelona, so just going to Cs and Catalan nationalists.
Almost inconceivably, my spreadsheet is now showing PP +8, Cs -7, which means that the right wing parties will actually be up on the December election.
Of course, that's nowhere near enough to form an actual government,
Still a hung parliament so settles nothing and still more than half the votes to come
39% to go, but a chunk of that is Barcelona, so just going to Cs and Catalan nationalists.
36% to go now. PP +12, Cs -11. PP will lose out in Barcelona, but Cs will gain.
When do the Far East markets open (have they already?). Agree with SeanT that the next few days could be make or break in determining the narrative....
Almost inconceivably, my spreadsheet is now showing PP +8, Cs -7, which means that the right wing parties will actually be up on the December election.
Of course, that's nowhere near enough to form an actual government,
Still a hung parliament so settles nothing and still more than half the votes to come
39% to go, but a chunk of that is Barcelona, so just going to Cs and Catalan nationalists.
A chunk but Citizens still clearly the biggest losers tonight
In some ways this is the most bizarre moment of British history that I can ever remember. Feels almost like some sort of vivid dream.
Or a nightmare. A visit from the night hag, who squats on your chest.
Didn't you vote to Leave?
In order to kick the establishment?
What did you expect?
I voted to LEAVE - with great reluctance, anxiety, and sadness, as expressed on here - in expectation of the kind of plan Richard has adduced in the threader. I also expected both my government and the Brexit camp to react calmly to the result, and present their detailed policies within a few hours.
I didn't expect them to hide away. I didn't expect them to say Plan, we didn't have a plan, oh, they should have a plan, oh fuck it, let's take some crystal meth and cider.
I didn't expect Her Majesty's opposition to react to this by drinking a vat of kool aid and committing weird seppuku while their leader conducted his Shadow Cabinet meeting in a Pimlico phonebox, due to the lack of attendants.
I guess I expected too much?
You proclaimed yourself a 100% Leaver. You can't rewrite history that quickly.
I voted Remain but we should now Leave and get on with it, get Andrea Leadsom and Gove to sort it out with Field and Stuart, they were the brains of Leave and have Boris as frontman with Farage as the supporting act.
Exactly.
And you can add Redwood, Carswell and Stringer to the discussions as well
Almost inconceivably, my spreadsheet is now showing PP +8, Cs -7, which means that the right wing parties will actually be up on the December election.
Of course, that's nowhere near enough to form an actual government,
Still a hung parliament so settles nothing and still more than half the votes to come
39% to go, but a chunk of that is Barcelona, so just going to Cs and Catalan nationalists.
However she has advocated blocking the will of the British people.
I leave you to decide.
At least she sounds like she's not shitting herself, nor is she sobbing inside her office.
That's no justification though is it.
Of course there is.
She is pointing out how scary, unstable and risky being part of the UK is. She isn't talking to you or anyone else outside Scotland. She is marking her card to win Independence and quite possibly will move towards that goal very soon.
Do you really believe that if you sign up to a decision process that the right thing to do if it doesn't go your way is to cry off?
I already know that you don't.
Incidentally Sturgeon is doing everything she can to do what you say she isn't - she wants to talk to people outside Scotland. I'm not sure that she even cares about the people back home.
Almost inconceivably, my spreadsheet is now showing PP +8, Cs -7, which means that the right wing parties will actually be up on the December election.
Of course, that's nowhere near enough to form an actual government,
Still a hung parliament so settles nothing and still more than half the votes to come
39% to go, but a chunk of that is Barcelona, so just going to Cs and Catalan nationalists.
A chunk but Citizens still clearly the biggest losers tonight
They'll end up on 33-36, down between 7 and 4. PP the big winners.
Nobody seemed to have any particular issue with Cameron's actions on Friday in taking time to install a new Prime Minister before commencing formal negotiations, was happy that Carney took appropriate action to reassure the markets, and then spent Saturday ridiculing the EU for thinking it could rush us into action. And now suddenly that's all out of the window and everyone is demanding that HMG make it's position clear NOW! Why the change? Spending all day on Pb.com without coming up for air can do this sort of thing.
Just another day on PB. We have spent weeks alternating between periods of Remain gloating and Leave in despair, and then the opposite a few days later. The same is continuing, Leave elated on Friday, now things are a bit slow to get started and there is gloom and despondence from Leavers and pissing taking from Remainers. Tomorrow someone will get up and give a good speech and sketch out the way forward, and Leave will be back on their high horses and Remain will be kicking at stones with their hands in their pockets. Plus ça change.
In some ways this is the most bizarre moment of British history that I can ever remember. Feels almost like some sort of vivid dream.
Or a nightmare. A visit from the night hag, who squats on your chest.
Didn't you vote to Leave?
In order to kick the establishment?
What did you expect?
I voted to LEAVE - with great reluctance, anxiety, and sadness, as expressed on here - in expectation of the kind of plan Richard has adduced in the threader. I also expected both my government and the Brexit camp to react calmly to the result, and present their detailed policies within a few hours.
I didn't expect them to hide away. I didn't expect them to say Plan, we didn't have a plan, oh, they should have a plan, oh fuck it, let's take some crystal meth and cider.
I didn't expect Her Majesty's opposition to react to this by drinking a vat of kool aid and committing weird seppuku while their leader conducted his Shadow Cabinet meeting in a Pimlico phonebox, due to the lack of attendants.
I guess I expected too much?
You proclaimed yourself a 100% Leaver. You can't rewrite history that quickly.
Well yeah, I went from 60/40 to 100, by which I meant I had DECIDED. And I voted LEAVE
That never meant I was 100% certain it was the right thing, as any one who reads PB can attest I was having doubts and worries right up to the last couple of hours. In my normal bipolar way.
I am now feeling some Bremorse. I did not expect the reaction by all sides to be so spectacularly crap and hapless. My prime minister weeping? FFS. Man up.
If we are all reduced to gnawing bones by November I promise to crawl to Lib Dem HQ and make penance by flailing myself with highly creased pairs of Chris Huhne's trousers.
No. If it all goes to hell in a handbasket, blame the Remainders in government for maliciously causing the problems. There is absolutely no reason for there to be major problems, other than certain persons want there to be, to make a point.
If Leave's project ends in tear blame those who voted Remain? Amazing.
Almost inconceivably, my spreadsheet is now showing PP +8, Cs -7, which means that the right wing parties will actually be up on the December election.
Of course, that's nowhere near enough to form an actual government,
Still a hung parliament so settles nothing and still more than half the votes to come
39% to go, but a chunk of that is Barcelona, so just going to Cs and Catalan nationalists.
Citizens was the largest party in Barcelona in the Catalan regionals last year.
Nobody seemed to have any particular issue with Cameron's actions on Friday in taking time to install a new Prime Minister before commencing formal negotiations, was happy that Carney took appropriate action to reassure the markets, and then spent Saturday ridiculing the EU for thinking it could rush us into action. And now suddenly that's all out of the window and everyone is demanding that HMG make it's position clear NOW! Why the change? Spending all day on Pb.com without coming up for air can do this sort of thing.
Just another day on PB. We have spent weeks alternating between periods of Remain gloating and Leave in despair, and then the opposite a few days later. The same is continuing, Leave elated on Friday, now things are a bit slow to get started and there is gloom and despondence from Leavers and pissing taking from Remainers. Tomorrow someone will get up and give a good speech and sketch out the way forward, and Leave will be back on their high horses and Remain will be kicking at stones with their hands in their pockets. Plus ça change.
Naught so stable as PB. Permanent chaos. Usually entertaining, but emotionally fraught at the moment for obvious reasons.
When do the Far East markets open (have they already?). Agree with SeanT that the next few days could be make or break in determining the narrative....
Long time lurker. Decided to de-lurk for surely the most chaotic moment in British politics in the post-war period.
Three days on, the mood among friends and colleagues (yes, in AB London) is still of grief, anger, disbelief, and derision. But also sober talk of new plans : deferring or abandoning investments & hires; considering relocation or opportunities abroad. The fallout is only beginning and cannot be measured in short-term fluctuations in the FTSE or the pound.
Can I say again what an arrogant failure Cameron is? Who decides a matter of supreme constitutional and economic importance with a simple majority referendum? This is not democracy - and was never intended to be. It was a sham - a tactical display of shadow-puppetry; totally at odds with this country's traditions. He has debauched the constitution, put the Union at risk, broken the economy, and re-toxified the Tories with a vengeance.
I will vote for a Labour leader who can unify, heal - and negotiate hard for this country's interests to stay in the EU or damn well near it (EFTA with knobs on, as Sean T says). I believe he (or she) would win an election on that basis. I say this as life-long Conservative party voter.
Where are all these grief-ridden people? I've been out in London all weekend and life is continuing exactly as normal, Pride was a great success yesterday and the Italian family my girlfriend lives with is completely unperturbed. I was distracted from my viewing of 'Falling Skies' last night by the Portuguese family who live down the road celebrating their goal v Croatia, and today in Clapham the Irish were having joyous half-time cigarettes outside the pub.
In a democracy sometimes you have to accept the side you voted for lost. The country has voted to leave the EU - no ifs, no buts - and it doesn't mean Armageddon. We are not a banana republic: we do not ignore or quash election results or our political opponents.
People need to calm down. Maybe stop checking the news for 5 minutes, go outside, and see that everyday life goes on unchanged.
For sure. The atmosphere among the general public is much calmer than it is here.
Almost inconceivably, my spreadsheet is now showing PP +8, Cs -7, which means that the right wing parties will actually be up on the December election.
Of course, that's nowhere near enough to form an actual government,
Still a hung parliament so settles nothing and still more than half the votes to come
39% to go, but a chunk of that is Barcelona, so just going to Cs and Catalan nationalists.
A chunk but Citizens still clearly the biggest losers tonight
They'll end up on 33-36, down between 7 and 4. PP the big winners.
Yet PP again fail to get a majority which is precisely why they had to call another election anyway so yet another indecisive election which may end up with a PP/PSOE deal which will boost Podemos in the long term
Almost inconceivably, my spreadsheet is now showing PP +8, Cs -7, which means that the right wing parties will actually be up on the December election.
Of course, that's nowhere near enough to form an actual government,
Still a hung parliament so settles nothing and still more than half the votes to come
39% to go, but a chunk of that is Barcelona, so just going to Cs and Catalan nationalists.
Citizens was the largest party in Barcelona in the Catalan regionals last year.
You need to separate the province from the city. It's the province that counts for the GE.
Good, what we need now is to delay exit while the EU infights and try and get the best deal possible. It is brutal to say it but we now need populists to win almost everywhere, the more chaos and anti establishment parties do well the better our relative position will be
With just 28% to go in the Spanish general election, it's the PP that has most outperformed expectations, and also a real surprise that the PSOE beat Podemos.
I don't know anyone who is suffering from bremorse. The folk of my acquaintance who care about the EU still care about the EU, and the ones that voted out (and i seem to know an awful lot of Outers) want the politicians to start the ball rolling asap. A couple of younger members have been a bit vocal on how they want a rerun, but that's about it. I expect Cameron to step up to the plate after a weekend's rest that he clearly needs and deserves, and start banging heads together, and I expect the Leave politicians to start to flesh out where they see things going. If that doesn't happen, I'll know that the referendum really was a Cameron/Johnson vanity project, and I guess the country truly is fecked after all. Labour are a disgrace at the minute. Perhaps the biggest crisis we've faced since World War 2, and they're having a lefty wankfest.
No. If it all goes to hell in a handbasket, blame the Remainders in government for maliciously causing the problems. There is absolutely no reason for there to be major problems, other than certain persons want there to be, to make a point.
I find it difficult to believe that the drop in GBP, racist attacks, financial companies being invited to move to Dublin, and upcoming Scottish independence, can be realistically attributed to "Remainders in government for maliciously causing the problems"
Reading reports of surge in Conservative party membership applications. They are all joining to try to vote in the Leadership Election. Party rules say they have to be members for three months so it might be a close run thing depending on timetable agreed by '22 but hese new memebrs could be crucial if a Boris/May run off i as close as the Survation poll indciated. Are the new members Leavers or Remainers?
Nobody seemed to have any particular issue with Cameron's actions on Friday in taking time to install a new Prime Minister before commencing formal negotiations, was happy that Carney took appropriate action to reassure the markets, and then spent Saturday ridiculing the EU for thinking it could rush us into action. And now suddenly that's all out of the window and everyone is demanding that HMG make it's position clear NOW! Why the change? Spending all day on Pb.com without coming up for air can do this sort of thing.
Just another day on PB. We have spent weeks alternating between periods of Remain gloating and Leave in despair, and then the opposite a few days later. The same is continuing, Leave elated on Friday, now things are a bit slow to get started and there is gloom and despondence from Leavers and pissing taking from Remainers. Tomorrow someone will get up and give a good speech and sketch out the way forward, and Leave will be back on their high horses and Remain will be kicking at stones with their hands in their pockets. Plus ça change.
This is why, for once, pb-ers are right to be feverish and paranoid and eek-a-mouse
A polish school in cambridgeshire and a polish cultural centre in london both vandalised and with windows smashed just within the last couple of days, apparently.
Nobody seemed to have any particular issue with Cameron's actions on Friday in taking time to install a new Prime Minister before commencing formal negotiations, was happy that Carney took appropriate action to reassure the markets, and then spent Saturday ridiculing the EU for thinking it could rush us into action. And now suddenly that's all out of the window and everyone is demanding that HMG make it's position clear NOW! Why the change? Spending all day on Pb.com without coming up for air can do this sort of thing.
Just another day on PB. We have spent weeks alternating between periods of Remain gloating and Leave in despair, and then the opposite a few days later. The same is continuing, Leave elated on Friday, now things are a bit slow to get started and there is gloom and despondence from Leavers and pissing taking from Remainers. Tomorrow someone will get up and give a good speech and sketch out the way forward, and Leave will be back on their high horses and Remain will be kicking at stones with their hands in their pockets. Plus ça change.
This is why, for once, pb-ers are right to be feverish and paranoid and eek-a-mouse
Events are accelerating, rather than slowing down. Brexit is a process - a chain reaction - not a single news event which then slides into the past
Don't be silly. The EU can't force anything. And the key players (Merkel) have made it quite clear that the process shouldn't be rushed and has basically accepted the British timetable for triggering.
With just 28% to go in the Spanish general election, it's the PP that has most outperformed expectations, and also a real surprise that the PSOE beat Podemos.
The Brexit effect?
A PP/Cs deal now becoming a possibility if PSOE abstains.
This is not good for Podemos. The low turnout has really hurt them.
I don't know anyone who is suffering from bremorse. The folk of my acquaintance who care about the EU still care about the EU, and the ones that voted out (and i seem to know an awful lot of Outers) want the politicians to start the ball rolling asap. A couple of younger members have been a bit vocal on how they want a rerun, but that's about it. I expect Cameron to step up to the plate after a weekend's rest that he clearly needs and deserves, and start banging heads together, and I expect the Leave politicians to start to flesh out where they see things going. If that doesn't happen, I'll know that the referendum really was a Cameron/Johnson vanity project, and I guess the country truly is fecked after all. Labour are a disgrace at the minute. Perhaps the biggest crisis we've faced since World War 2, and they're having a lefty wankfest.
Nobody seemed to have any particular issue with Cameron's actions on Friday in taking time to install a new Prime Minister before commencing formal negotiations, was happy that Carney took appropriate action to reassure the markets, and then spent Saturday ridiculing the EU for thinking it could rush us into action. And now suddenly that's all out of the window and everyone is demanding that HMG make it's position clear NOW! Why the change? Spending all day on Pb.com without coming up for air can do this sort of thing.
Just another day on PB. We have spent weeks alternating between periods of Remain gloating and Leave in despair, and then the opposite a few days later. The same is continuing, Leave elated on Friday, now things are a bit slow to get started and there is gloom and despondence from Leavers and pissing taking from Remainers. Tomorrow someone will get up and give a good speech and sketch out the way forward, and Leave will be back on their high horses and Remain will be kicking at stones with their hands in their pockets. Plus ça change.
This is why, for once, pb-ers are right to be feverish and paranoid and eek-a-mouse
In a democracy sometimes you have to accept the side you voted for lost. The country has voted to leave the EU - no ifs, no buts - and it doesn't mean Armageddon. We are not a banana republic: we do not ignore or quash election results or our political opponents.
Au contraire. We are now in fact a banana republic. A pack of populist mavericks have just won a plebiscite cooked up for narrow party interest. The PM has gone missing, and the Opposition have decided to put on a am-dram performance of Agatha Christie's And Then There Were None.
Nobody seemed to have any particular issue with Cameron's actions on Friday in taking time to install a new Prime Minister before commencing formal negotiations, was happy that Carney took appropriate action to reassure the markets, and then spent Saturday ridiculing the EU for thinking it could rush us into action. And now suddenly that's all out of the window and everyone is demanding that HMG make it's position clear NOW! Why the change? Spending all day on Pb.com without coming up for air can do this sort of thing.
Just another day on PB. We have spent weeks alternating between periods of Remain gloating and Leave in despair, and then the opposite a few days later. The same is continuing, Leave elated on Friday, now things are a bit slow to get started and there is gloom and despondence from Leavers and pissing taking from Remainers. Tomorrow someone will get up and give a good speech and sketch out the way forward, and Leave will be back on their high horses and Remain will be kicking at stones with their hands in their pockets. Plus ça change.
This is why, for once, pb-ers are right to be feverish and paranoid and eek-a-mouse
Events are accelerating, rather than slowing down. Brexit is a process - a chain reaction - not a single news event which then slides into the past
This could end horrifically, or it could end amicably, albeit sadly. But it is a fast and dangerous ride and the early signs are truly menacing.
The beauty of leaving the EU is that we don't have to listen to these people dictating to our government any more.
I'm no lawyer, but their case for why it must happen soon don't seen matched by the legalities - perhaps it should start soon, for everyone's sake, but if there's no rule that says it must, there's no obligation to do so even if they are critical of doing so. It's not them accommodating the Tories, as he puts it, it's not within their power to start it, so it's not accommodating anyone.
With just 28% to go in the Spanish general election, it's the PP that has most outperformed expectations, and also a real surprise that the PSOE beat Podemos.
The Brexit effect?
A PP/Cs deal now becoming a possibility if PSOE abstains.
This is not good for Podemos. The low turnout has really hurt them.
A PP/Cs deal does not have a majority either and if PSOE abstains that will be tacit support and annoy many of their supporters who will then switch to Podemos
Very sad. It does look like real nastiness emerging; perhaps it is just coincidence. Pray to God it all goes away.
A quite amazing coincidence.
The person who discovered them has tweeted hundreds of times about the negative affects of the referendum on immigrants (when he isn't trolling Gareth Bale and Ellie Goulding), then on the way home from the pub he finds two immigrants that have been beaten up. By English people natch.
This nasty undercurrent won't go away so easily, because part of the Leave campaign consciously deployed it as a weapon, Im afraid.
The story has been published in the Huffington Post, which links to facebook. On there people are claiming the photographs are from 2012 and therefore nothing to do with "Brexit". The person that posted the photos on twitter seems to have an agenda, if you read his timeline. It is almost certain to be fiction.
A polish school in cambridgeshire and a polish cultural centre in london both vandalised and with windows smashed just within the last couple of days, apparently.
How terrible. I hope people from all sides turn round to condemn this sort of thing.
With just 28% to go in the Spanish general election, it's the PP that has most outperformed expectations, and also a real surprise that the PSOE beat Podemos.
The Brexit effect?
A PP/Cs deal now becoming a possibility if PSOE abstains.
This is not good for Podemos. The low turnout has really hurt them.
You're the expert but from the results page it appears that turnout in 2016 is almost the same as last year. What am I missing?
With just 28% to go in the Spanish general election, it's the PP that has most outperformed expectations, and also a real surprise that the PSOE beat Podemos.
The Brexit effect?
A PP/Cs deal now becoming a possibility if PSOE abstains.
This is not good for Podemos. The low turnout has really hurt them.
PP + C are probably 1 to 4 seats ahead of the same point in the polls last time. Short of the 175, but boy has Podemos underperformed the exits.
Good, what we need now is to delay exit while the EU infights and try and get the best deal possible. It is brutal to say it but we now need populists to win almost everywhere, the more chaos and anti establishment parties do well the better our relative position will be
It does seem right that Juncker should return. After all, Cameron would have resigned if Scotland voted out.
Reading reports of surge in Conservative party membership applications. They are all joining to try to vote in the Leadership Election. Party rules say they have to be members for three months so it might be a close run thing depending on timetable agreed by '22 but hese new memebrs could be crucial if a Boris/May run off i as close as the Survation poll indciated. Are the new members Leavers or Remainers?
Leavers almost certainly, the Tory party's own Corbynite surge!
Like the article. It does rather beg the question of who in the Conservative Party can realistically carry out such a plan. I think Gove is too poisoned by his antiimmigration stance (YMMV), but Boris would have the chutzpah to carry it off, and May may have the dull bureaucratic drive to carry it through. Don't know about the others.
Nobody seemed to have any particular issue with Cameron's actions on Friday in taking time to install a new Prime Minister before commencing formal negotiations, was happy that Carney took appropriate action to reassure the markets, and then spent Saturday ridiculing the EU for thinking it could rush us into action. And now suddenly that's all out of the window and everyone is demanding that HMG make it's position clear NOW! Why the change? Spending all day on Pb.com without coming up for air can do this sort of thing.
Just another day on PB. We have spent weeks alternating between periods of Remain gloating and Leave in despair, and then the opposite a few days later. The same is continuing, Leave elated on Friday, now things are a bit slow to get started and there is gloom and despondence from Leavers and pissing taking from Remainers. Tomorrow someone will get up and give a good speech and sketch out the way forward, and Leave will be back on their high horses and Remain will be kicking at stones with their hands in their pockets. Plus ça change.
This is why, for once, pb-ers are right to be feverish and paranoid and eek-a-mouse
Events are accelerating, rather than slowing down. Brexit is a process - a chain reaction - not a single news event which then slides into the past
This could end horrifically, or it could end amicably, albeit sadly. But it is a fast and dangerous ride and the early signs are truly menacing.
What on are you on? I don't mean that offensively, I mean what is it you're ingesting that's shitting you up so much? Every BBC news bulletin? Friends' tearful facebook posts? Stark Dawning's PB dribblings?
Everything of any substance of this Brexitgeddon I've seen has quickly been debunked. I'm not impressed with Cameron's non-resignation followed by going into hiding but it's hardly unexpected, and it will pass.
Nobody seemed to have any particular issue with Cameron's actions on Friday in taking time to install a new Prime Minister before commencing formal negotiations, was happy that Carney took appropriate action to reassure the markets, and then spent Saturday ridiculing the EU for thinking it could rush us into action. And now suddenly that's all out of the window and everyone is demanding that HMG make it's position clear NOW! Why the change? Spending all day on Pb.com without coming up for air can do this sort of thing.
Just another day on PB. We have spent weeks alternating between periods of Remain gloating and Leave in despair, and then the opposite a few days later. The same is continuing, Leave elated on Friday, now things are a bit slow to get started and there is gloom and despondence from Leavers and pissing taking from Remainers. Tomorrow someone will get up and give a good speech and sketch out the way forward, and Leave will be back on their high horses and Remain will be kicking at stones with their hands in their pockets. Plus ça change.
This is why, for once, pb-ers are right to be feverish and paranoid and eek-a-mouse
Events are accelerating, rather than slowing down. Brexit is a process - a chain reaction - not a single news event which then slides into the past
This could end horrifically, or it could end amicably, albeit sadly. But it is a fast and dangerous ride and the early signs are truly menacing.
The beauty of leaving the EU is that we don't have to listen to these people dictating to our government any more.
I'm no lawyer, but their case for why it must happen soon don't seen matched by the legalities - perhaps it should start soon, for everyone's sake, but if there's no rule that says it must, there's no obligation to do so even if they are critical of doing so. It's not them accommodating the Tories, as he puts it, it's not within their power to start it, so it's not accommodating anyone.
The reason it must start soon is the market. It has nothing to do with Schultz. He's utterly irrelevant.
A polish school in cambridgeshire and a polish cultural centre in london both vandalised and with windows smashed just within the last couple of days, apparently.
How terrible. I hope people from all sides turn round to condemn this sort of thing.
Hah. I always liked Clegg, I feel despite his party being ripped to shreds under his watch history will be kinder to him about how the choices seemed like the right ones at the time.
I always liked Clegg. He certainly seems better than Farron, who is now arguing the Liberal Democrats should ignore democracy and refuse to abide by the referendum result.
Good, what we need now is to delay exit while the EU infights and try and get the best deal possible. It is brutal to say it but we now need populists to win almost everywhere, the more chaos and anti establishment parties do well the better our relative position will be
What's become of you, HYUFD? You seem to have become a bit of a revolutionary!
Nobody seemed to have any particular issue with Cameron's actions on Friday in taking time to install a new Prime Minister before commencing formal negotiations, was happy that Carney took appropriate action to reassure the markets, and then spent Saturday ridiculing the EU for thinking it could rush us into action. And now suddenly that's all out of the window and everyone is demanding that HMG make it's position clear NOW! Why the change? Spending all day on Pb.com without coming up for air can do this sort of thing.
Just another day on PB. We have spent weeks alternating between periods of Remain gloating and Leave in despair, and then the opposite a few days later. The same is continuing, Leave elated on Friday, now things are a bit slow to get started and there is gloom and despondence from Leavers and pissing taking from Remainers. Tomorrow someone will get up and give a good speech and sketch out the way forward, and Leave will be back on their high horses and Remain will be kicking at stones with their hands in their pockets. Plus ça change.
This is why, for once, pb-ers are right to be feverish and paranoid and eek-a-mouse
Events are accelerating, rather than slowing down. Brexit is a process - a chain reaction - not a single news event which then slides into the past
This could end horrifically, or it could end amicably, albeit sadly. But it is a fast and dangerous ride and the early signs are truly menacing.
What on are you on? I don't mean that offensively, I mean what is it you're ingesting that's shitting you up so much? Every BBC news bulletin? Friends' tearful facebook posts? Stark Dawning's PB dribblings?
Everything of any substance of this Brexitgeddon I've seen has quickly been debunked. I'm not impressed with Cameron's non-resignation followed by going into hiding but it's hardly unexpected, and it will pass.
21.5% to go in Spain. I wonder if Brexit is why Podemos has underperformed so.
Have they? Final polls had them on early to mid twenties, they got early twenties. Longer term it may prove a better result for them for the PP-PSOE to do a deal than for a Podemos-PSOE deal to take effect, that way they take none of the blame and can eat into the PSOE vote
The day I take advice from SeanT on Labour Party politics will be the day after hell freezes over. However, if the Shadow Cabinet shares his view and Southam's view, they should be concentrating on the clueless government, not trying to engineer a coup in the teeth of the membership so as to promote who-knows-who to lead the party to support who-knows-what. Rejoin the EU? Invade Syria? Privatise some more? Raise taxes? Lower taxes? Or what?
The fundamental problem of the centre-left is that it has neither a programme nor a leader. Merely wanting to be in government and to oppose the other lot is not a respectable or viable position on its own, as Boris is demonstating at his leisure. Until they get one or preferably both, they will struggle to get a hearing in the membership.
There's no leader at the moment but there is a programme.
The programme is protecting the worst off in society without demonizing anyone earning over £45k. The programme is ensuring that the benefits of economic growth result in good public services and equality of opportunity.
The programme is fighting tooth and nail for a settlement with the EU that protects the quality of the air we breathe, our rights to paid parental leave, our rights to a safe workplace, and allows us to continue to trade unimpeded. It's providing a stable, planned economic environment that gradually reduces the deficit without mega hand-outs for the richest in society, and making steps to rebalance the burden of tax so that it's no longer acceptable for PAYE workers to suffer while inherited wealth is shrugged at by HMRC.
Rolling back the intrusion of ideological dogma into domains where evidence-based practice should be the norm: healthcare, education, policing, social work.
A fair settlement with Scotland, Wales and NI and creating a better Northern Powerhouse than Osborne offers with real investment in infrastructure in the regions, rather than using the pocket change left over from HS2 and airport expansion.
It's recognising that the concerns people have over mass immigration can't be solved by stuffing their mouths with tax credits, but rather that we need to look at both the factors pulling people into the country AND building more infrastructure to support those who do come here.
It's being able to present ourselves as an alternative Government not a student debating society. Above all it's NOT having Das Kapital shoved so far up our collective rectum that it impedes the flow of blood to the parts of the brain that allow us to communicate as normal humans, regardless of if we're talking to a stockbroker from Kent or an unemployed steel worker from Redcar.
If we stick with Corbyn, there is a helpful guide to what we can expect at the next election: look at the yellow Remain areas on the map. Knock off Scotland. Knock off Northern Ireland. The remainder is where JC plays well.
Absolutely spot on. Thbout the bigger picture. If they don't they will kill the Labour party.
The day I take advice from SeanT on Labour Party politics will be the day after hell freezes over. However, if the Shadow Cabinet shares his view and Southam's view, they should be concentrating on the clueless government, not trying to engineer a coup in the teeth of the membership so as to promote who-knows-who to lead the party to support who-knows-what. Rejoin the EU? Invade Syria? Privatise some more? Raise taxes? Lower taxes? Or what?
The fundamental problem of the centre-left is that it has neither a programme nor a leader. Merely wanting to be in government and to oppose the other lot is not a respectable or viable position on its own, as Boris is demonstating at his leisure. Until they get one or preferably both, they will struggle to get a hearing in the membership.
When facts change, I change my mind...
What do you do, Nick?
Yet again you are missing the point. We all laughed, oh how we laughed because there was no ready answer to the question: what changed in the Labour Party between 9.59pm and 10.01pm on May 7th last year, and what's the difference between them and the Conservative Party. We had two broadly centrist parties, espousing broadly similar manifestos, with a bit more or less tax here, and a bit more or less spending there.
And so of course those seers of the Labour Party said: but that is not what the UK wants. What the UK wants is a return to the radical, campus politics of the 80s. And you Nick, you said, in your heart of hearts, that that was what you had always, really, wanted also.
But, you great big banana, the UK wants centrist politics. Always has done, always will, the epitome of the "mustn't grumble" world view that has seen us through. Look at the buyers' remorse of the EU referendum.
So had you held your nerve, as a party, elected Liz or even Andy, (no dear god not Andy), and seen the Cons bolt rightwards as they now have done, you would now be the next government in waiting if not actually the current government.
But you had instead a rush of blood to the head, had an asinine, playground, campus-type moment of idiocy and as a result, sadly Nick for you, you will never be a part of the Labour Party's or indeed the UK's political future. As for the Labour Party, well it is up to them. I have no great confidence but you never know, there are enough decent types in there, not including (politically) you.
Good, what we need now is to delay exit while the EU infights and try and get the best deal possible. It is brutal to say it but we now need populists to win almost everywhere, the more chaos and anti establishment parties do well the better our relative position will be
It does seem right that Juncker should return. After all, Cameron would have resigned if Scotland voted out.
Indeed but Juncker is a eurocrat, doing the decent thing is not in the vocabulary, he will stick it out
Hah. I always liked Clegg, I feel despite his party being ripped to shreds under his watch history will be kinder to him about how the choices seemed like the right ones at the time.
I always liked Clegg. He certainly seems better than Farron, who is now arguing the Liberal Democrats should ignore democracy and refuse to abide by the referendum result.
People that have never been of our screens and airwaves for the last month suddenly go all Lord Lucan. All they had to do was give out a daily statement, saying they were working on a smooth transition to brexit/New PM.
Nobody seemed to have any particular issue with Cameron's actions on Friday in taking time to install a new Prime Minister before commencing formal negotiations, was happy that Carney took appropriate action to reassure the markets, and then spent Saturday ridiculing the EU for thinking it could rush us into action. And now suddenly that's all out of the window and everyone is demanding that HMG make it's position clear NOW! Why the change? Spending all day on Pb.com without coming up for air can do this sort of thing.
Just another day on PB. We have spent weeks alternating between periods of Remain gloating and Leave in despair, and then the opposite a few days later. The same is continuing, Leave elated on Friday, now things are a bit slow to get started and there is gloom and despondence from Leavers and pissing taking from Remainers. Tomorrow someone will get up and give a good speech and sketch out the way forward, and Leave will be back on their high horses and Remain will be kicking at stones with their hands in their pockets. Plus ça change.
This is why, for once, pb-ers are right to be feverish and paranoid and eek-a-mouse
Events are accelerating, rather than slowing down. Brexit is a process - a chain reaction - not a single news event which then slides into the past
This could end horrifically, or it could end amicably, albeit sadly. But it is a fast and dangerous ride and the early signs are truly menacing.
The beauty of leaving the EU is that we don't have to listen to these people dictating to our government any more.
I'm no lawyer, but their case for why it must happen soon don't seen matched by the legalities - perhaps it should start soon, for everyone's sake, but if there's no rule that says it must, there's no obligation to do so even if they are critical of doing so. It's not them accommodating the Tories, as he puts it, it's not within their power to start it, so it's not accommodating anyone.
The reason it must start soon is the market. It has nothing to do with Schultz. He's utterly irrelevant.
It would be a big mistake for us to start negotiations before we have either got a new Prime Minister or recruited some hardened trade negotiators. I voted Remain, but we must all now come together in the national interest. The desire of fellow Remainers to see our country fall apart is mind-boggling.
Oh f--k off Sturgeon and shut your cake hole for once.
Would be my retort.
Yeah, shut it you slag. Let the big boys who called this referendum, ran such creditable campaigns and who even now are making such a wonderful job of mapping out the immediate future of the UK get on with it.
Hah. I always liked Clegg, I feel despite his party being ripped to shreds under his watch history will be kinder to him about how the choices seemed like the right ones at the time.
I always liked Clegg. He certainly seems better than Farron, who is now arguing the Liberal Democrats should ignore democracy and refuse to abide by the referendum result.
I thought he was arguing that the UK should seek to rejoin after we have left? That's not ignoring the result, it's saying they think it a mistake and will campaign for it to be reversed (though I doubt it will be successful). Ignoring democracy would be saying we should just not leave at all, without any sort of democratic counter to the referendum.
With just 28% to go in the Spanish general election, it's the PP that has most outperformed expectations, and also a real surprise that the PSOE beat Podemos.
The Brexit effect?
A PP/Cs deal now becoming a possibility if PSOE abstains.
This is not good for Podemos. The low turnout has really hurt them.
PP + C are probably 1 to 4 seats ahead of the same point in the polls last time. Short of the 175, but boy has Podemos underperformed the exits.
C is down, Podemos actually slightly up from 2015 even if short of the exit poll and still the vote is not yet complete
Very sad. It does look like real nastiness emerging; perhaps it is just coincidence. Pray to God it all goes away.
A quite amazing coincidence.
The person who discovered them has tweeted hundreds of times about the negative affects of the referendum on immigrants (when he isn't trolling Gareth Bale and Ellie Goulding), then on the way home from the pub he finds two immigrants that have been beaten up. By English people natch.
This nasty undercurrent won't go away so easily, because part of the Leave campaign consciously deployed it as a weapon, Im afraid.
The story has been published in the Huffington Post, which links to facebook. On there people are claiming the photographs are from 2012 and therefore nothing to do with "Brexit". The person that posted the photos on twitter seems to have an agenda, if you read his timeline. It is almost certain to be fiction.
That's interesting. I did look at his timeline and wonder. It was a little convenient. Hmm.
Nobody seemed to have any particular issue with Cameron's actions on Friday in taking time to install a new Prime Minister before commencing formal negotiations, was happy that Carney took appropriate action to reassure the markets, and then spent Saturday ridiculing the EU for thinking it could rush us into action. And now suddenly that's all out of the window and everyone is demanding that HMG make it's position clear NOW! Why the change? Spending all day on Pb.com without coming up for air can do this sort of thing.
Just another day on PB. We have spent weeks alternating between periods of Remain gloating and Leave in despair, and then the opposite a few days later. The same is continuing, Leave elated on Friday, now things are a bit slow to get started and there is gloom and despondence from Leavers and pissing taking from Remainers. Tomorrow someone will get up and give a good speech and sketch out the way forward, and Leave will be back on their high horses and Remain will be kicking at stones with their hands in their pockets. Plus ça change.
This is why, for once, pb-ers are right to be feverish and paranoid and eek-a-mouse
Events are accelerating, rather than slowing down. Brexit is a process - a chain reaction - not a single news event which then slides into the past
This could end horrifically, or it could end amicably, albeit sadly. But it is a fast and dangerous ride and the early signs are truly menacing.
What on are you on? I don't mean that offensively, I mean what is it you're ingesting that's shitting you up so much? Every BBC news bulletin? Friends' tearful facebook posts? Stark Dawning's PB dribblings?
Everything of any substance of this Brexitgeddon I've seen has quickly been debunked. I'm not impressed with Cameron's non-resignation followed by going into hiding but it's hardly unexpected, and it will pass.
Take some advice from Dave and chillax.
gin
Well I hope it's British-made. We'll need some money to buy pea-shooters for WW3.
With just 28% to go in the Spanish general election, it's the PP that has most outperformed expectations, and also a real surprise that the PSOE beat Podemos.
The Brexit effect?
A PP/Cs deal now becoming a possibility if PSOE abstains.
This is not good for Podemos. The low turnout has really hurt them.
PP + C are probably 1 to 4 seats ahead of the same point in the polls last time. Short of the 175, but boy has Podemos underperformed the exits.
With all the regional parties, I am not sure 175 will be necessary.
Brexit may well be a factor. Plays well for status quo. And there could be a little Gibraltar element at play within that. PP may be most trusted to do the best by Spain on that and Brexit generally.
Excellent article Richard. I agree with practically all you have said.
I have always suspected that we would end up with EFTA/EEA and I could live with that but if we do end up retaining FoM then I will honestly be left feeling that we were conned into Brexit.
Very sad. It does look like real nastiness emerging; perhaps it is just coincidence. Pray to God it all goes away.
A quite amazing coincidence.
The person who discovered them has tweeted hundreds of times about the negative affects of the referendum on immigrants (when he isn't trolling Gareth Bale and Ellie Goulding), then on the way home from the pub he finds two immigrants that have been beaten up. By English people natch.
This nasty undercurrent won't go away so easily, because part of the Leave campaign consciously deployed it as a weapon, Im afraid.
The story has been published in the Huffington Post, which links to facebook. On there people are claiming the photographs are from 2012 and therefore nothing to do with "Brexit". The person that posted the photos on twitter seems to have an agenda, if you read his timeline. It is almost certain to be fiction.
That's interesting. I did look at his timeline and wonder. It was a little convenient. Hmm.
Quick debunking is the far greater convenience than someone piecing together a varying assemblage of different accounts. There are various, highly plausible, twitter accounts of the mood on that page, too. They won't be the first, or the last.
Comments
Edit: Of course, a problem the Seven Kingdoms (which contained 8 distinct entities, btw) had was the realms had too much independence and power, and there was not enough central authority to ensure unity.
I wonder if more integration would be the answer.
Edit Edit: Also, the Andals, First Men and Rhoynar ethnic groups on Westeros never really came together as one multicultural people either, kept separate governing systems, religions in some cases, as they immigrated in. No parallels there.
He is not immune from the "fundamental problem" you point out. He runs on being "decent" and "different", but has no ideas that I can see beyond some reheated 80s guff.
And you can add Redwood, Carswell and Stringer to the discussions as well
https://twitter.com/ojomagico/status/747153315797032962
I suspect any nervous Con MP who doesn't want a GE may well be tempted to vote for anyone other than Boris.
eg If May becomes PM she is surely much more likely to take a head down, steady as she goes, approach - no GE - calm measured negotiations to exit the EU - claiming mandate already given by 2015 GE and Referendum.
PP 31.73
PS 23.65
Podemos 21.38
Cs 12.07
But, irrespective, there is no obvious workable two party coalition (except PP + PSOE).
I already know that you don't.
Incidentally Sturgeon is doing everything she can to do what you say she isn't - she wants to talk to people outside Scotland. I'm not sure that she even cares about the people back home.
I don't speak Spanish, but even I can translate that as 'funeral atmosphere'
Re Bbc
I expect Cameron to step up to the plate after a weekend's rest that he clearly needs and deserves, and start banging heads together, and I expect the Leave politicians to start to flesh out where they see things going. If that doesn't happen, I'll know that the referendum really was a Cameron/Johnson vanity project, and I guess the country truly is fecked after all. Labour are a disgrace at the minute. Perhaps the biggest crisis we've faced since World War 2, and they're having a lefty wankfest.
You missed Fox, who is now third favourite!
A PP/Cs deal now becoming a possibility if PSOE abstains.
This is not good for Podemos. The low turnout has really hurt them.
leaving
Diane, McD, Thornberry, Trickett, Burnham...........
Anyone know why Luciana Berger still hasn't walked?
Like the article. It does rather beg the question of who in the Conservative Party can realistically carry out such a plan. I think Gove is too poisoned by his antiimmigration stance (YMMV), but Boris would have the chutzpah to carry it off, and May may have the dull bureaucratic drive to carry it through. Don't know about the others.
Everything of any substance of this Brexitgeddon I've seen has quickly been debunked. I'm not impressed with Cameron's non-resignation followed by going into hiding but it's hardly unexpected, and it will pass.
Take some advice from Dave and chillax.
The programme is protecting the worst off in society without demonizing anyone earning over £45k.
The programme is ensuring that the benefits of economic growth result in good public services and equality of opportunity.
The programme is fighting tooth and nail for a settlement with the EU that protects the quality of the air we breathe, our rights to paid parental leave, our rights to a safe workplace, and allows us to continue to trade unimpeded.
It's providing a stable, planned economic environment that gradually reduces the deficit without mega hand-outs for the richest in society, and making steps to rebalance the burden of tax so that it's no longer acceptable for PAYE workers to suffer while inherited wealth is shrugged at by HMRC.
Rolling back the intrusion of ideological dogma into domains where evidence-based practice should be the norm: healthcare, education, policing, social work.
A fair settlement with Scotland, Wales and NI and creating a better Northern Powerhouse than Osborne offers with real investment in infrastructure in the regions, rather than using the pocket change left over from HS2 and airport expansion.
It's recognising that the concerns people have over mass immigration can't be solved by stuffing their mouths with tax credits, but rather that we need to look at both the factors pulling people into the country AND building more infrastructure to support those who do come here.
It's being able to present ourselves as an alternative Government not a student debating society.
Above all it's NOT having Das Kapital shoved so far up our collective rectum that it impedes the flow of blood to the parts of the brain that allow us to communicate as normal humans, regardless of if we're talking to a stockbroker from Kent or an unemployed steel worker from Redcar.
If we stick with Corbyn, there is a helpful guide to what we can expect at the next election: look at the yellow Remain areas on the map. Knock off Scotland. Knock off Northern Ireland. The remainder is where JC plays well.
*drops mic*
What do you do, Nick?
Yet again you are missing the point. We all laughed, oh how we laughed because there was no ready answer to the question: what changed in the Labour Party between 9.59pm and 10.01pm on May 7th last year, and what's the difference between them and the Conservative Party. We had two broadly centrist parties, espousing broadly similar manifestos, with a bit more or less tax here, and a bit more or less spending there.
And so of course those seers of the Labour Party said: but that is not what the UK wants. What the UK wants is a return to the radical, campus politics of the 80s. And you Nick, you said, in your heart of hearts, that that was what you had always, really, wanted also.
But, you great big banana, the UK wants centrist politics. Always has done, always will, the epitome of the "mustn't grumble" world view that has seen us through. Look at the buyers' remorse of the EU referendum.
So had you held your nerve, as a party, elected Liz or even Andy, (no dear god not Andy), and seen the Cons bolt rightwards as they now have done, you would now be the next government in waiting if not actually the current government.
But you had instead a rush of blood to the head, had an asinine, playground, campus-type moment of idiocy and as a result, sadly Nick for you, you will never be a part of the Labour Party's or indeed the UK's political future. As for the Labour Party, well it is up to them. I have no great confidence but you never know, there are enough decent types in there, not including (politically) you.
All they had to do was give out a daily statement, saying they were working on a smooth transition to brexit/New PM.
Let the big boys who called this referendum, ran such creditable campaigns and who even now are making such a wonderful job of mapping out the immediate future of the UK get on with it.
Thou shalt not believe Twitter.
Brexit may well be a factor. Plays well for status quo. And there could be a little Gibraltar element at play within that. PP may be most trusted to do the best by Spain on that and Brexit generally.
I have always suspected that we would end up with EFTA/EEA and I could live with that but if we do end up retaining FoM then I will honestly be left feeling that we were conned into Brexit.