"I completely understand that Leavers feel very upset about any linkage between the referendum campaign and Jo Cox's death. Whatever her killer's motives, he and he alone is responsible for his actions.
But - and yes, there is a but - Leavers need to understand that many small l liberals quite genuinely believe that the nature of the Leave campaign has contributed to an atmosphere of intolerance and demonisation in which an attack on someone active in politics seems not acceptable but expectable. Those small l liberals aren't saying it for tactical advantage in the referendum campaign, they believe it."
Yes.
We are in an era of demonization on all sides.
Politics is now a zero sum game - for your side to gain the people on the other side need to lose.
Its 'take it from them and give it to me'.
And its a lot easier to 'take from them' if they can be demonised.
Even better if they can be successfully demonised then taking from them becomes the 'righteous' thing to do.
There is nothing more zero sum than a referendum, which is why I don't like them. You are going to people and asking "Which is it? Yes or No? Black or White? Take it or Leave it?" When it really is "Depends. Up to a Point. Let's see what we get and then make a decision." Or even, "I don't know - you work it out."
When you elect representatives, one lot is basically as good as another. It isn't as stark.
Cobblers - when the main parties are *all the same* - millions of disenfranchised voters revolt. They join and vote for fringe parties to make their point instead.
We only got a referendum *because* one of the main parties was scared it'd lose too many more votes to UKIP. And now the can of worms is open. And those who wanted to ignore all the unhappiness are being faced with it - in spades.
They don't like it - so name-call 50% of the population waycists, xenophobes, stupid, vulgar, Little Englanders and on and on and on.
That's not grown-up politics, it's childish and insulting.
Not forgetting carrot-crunchers, football hooligans, people in semis in Watford and of course this:
did it ask you which of the two conservative parties you'd vote for ?
Sadly not. I spent last night contemplating life outside of the Tory party.
Don't go.
If Farage joins/is ennobled/becomes a member of a post Leave Tory led government, I'm outta here
Do you think I'm going to let that happen, or any of us sane Leavers?
Farage has caused nothing but trouble for us and contaminated our campaign.
I detest him.
Boris will do anything to be PM, including all of the above involving Farage
You remainers have a bizarre fascination with Boris and IDS, Makes mine with Osborne look mild. This is a win win no PM Boris no PM George. IDS is history.
You have a chance to pick a normal person.
Some of us remember the dark days of IDS.
As a CCHQ staffer put it, IDS stood for In Deep Shit.
I don't think post-murder polls will tell us much about its impact. It takes a few days for events to feed into voting intention. But (at risk of repeating myself) I don't think it will have much effect anyway.
If my real life conversations today are anything to go by, no effect.
Football and Brexit (as if yesterday didn't happen)
Just a couple of odd afterthought comments about the late MP. Has impacted about as much as a news report about a victim of a fatal accident on the M1
Its not as if anyone outside politics had ever heard of her until this kicked off
I am also starting to wonder if the general public feel the same way as the politicians do about this. The politicians and journos are going to be strongly focused on this as it is one of their own. I guess it is worth comparing the news coverage with that of the policeman who was run over when deploying the stinger.
I expect there might be a strong impact on the referendum in Kirklees but less so elsewhere
"I completely understand that Leavers feel very upset about any linkage between the referendum campaign and Jo Cox's death. Whatever her killer's motives, he and he alone is responsible for his actions.
But - and yes, there is a but - Leavers need to understand that many small l liberals quite genuinely believe that the nature of the Leave campaign has contributed to an atmosphere of intolerance and demonisation in which an attack on someone active in politics seems not acceptable but expectable. Those small l liberals aren't saying it for tactical advantage in the referendum campaign, they believe it."
Yes.
We are in an era of demonization on all sides.
Politics is now a zero sum game - for your side to gain the people on the other side need to lose.
Its 'take it from them and give it to me'.
And its a lot easier to 'take from them' if they can be demonised.
Even better if they can be successfully demonised then taking from them becomes the 'righteous' thing to do.
There is nothing more zero it out."
When you elect representatives, one lot is basically as good as another. It isn't as stark.
Cobblers - when the main parties are *all the same* - millions of disenfranchised voters revolt. They join and vote for fringe parties to make their point instead.
We it - in spades.
They don't like it - so name-call 50% of the population waycists, xenophobes, stupid, vulgar, Little Englanders and on and on and on.
That's not grown-up politics, it's childish and insulting.
Not forgetting carrot-crunchers, football hooligans, people in semis in Watford and of course this:
The Stuart Rose / Emily Thornberry mentality is never short of intolerance and demonisation of people different to themselves.
Britain is not going to be a happy place now that it has discovered what it thinks of other parts of it.
The feckless poor, scroungers, underclass, Chavs, the client state and so on. And that's before we get onto trade unionists and public sector workers.
The contempt for the working class from the right has been as vicious as anything thrown from the left. And the right have also put in place plenty of policies over the last few years that have actively hurt working class people - all cheered on by many people on this board who have suddenly discovered the working class may actually be politically useful.
did it ask you which of the two conservative parties you'd vote for ?
Sadly not. I spent last night contemplating life outside of the Tory party.
Don't go.
If Farage joins/is ennobled/becomes a member of a post Leave Tory led government, I'm outta here
Do you think I'm going to let that happen, or any of us sane Leavers?
Farage has caused nothing but trouble for us and contaminated our campaign.
I detest him.
Boris will do anything to be PM, including all of the above involving Farage
You remainers have a bizarre fascination with Boris and IDS, Makes mine with Osborne look mild. This is a win win no PM Boris no PM George. IDS is history.
You have a chance to pick a normal person.
We're all talking about the same Tory party, right?
What f##king cop out. All athletes have to do the drug testing at competitions, but only an idiot turns up juiced like Ben Johnson. Either they have something they know passes current tests (how many are caught retrospectively these days) and more likely will have already taken advantage of the drugs.
There's going to be quite an interesting piece of investigative journalism on the origins of "Britain First".... That it appeared from nowhere when it did looks VERY convenient for Remain.
The man who claimed Britain First was shouted has been found on a list of BNP supporters. The BNP and Britain First despise each other.
All too murky...
Either way, it's a disaster.
Most importantly, Jo lost her life and her family a mother and wife. In addition to that:
If Remain win, the result will now probably be blamed on this. The result is in serious danger of being rejected, particularly due to all the Brexit leads prior to the event, and could spawn many conspiracy theories. It could lead to some real unrest. Ugly.
If Leave win, negotiations will be soured by some in the EU thinking we've just shrugged off a strand of Nazi-lite thinking, that's how they'll see it, which leaves serious questions hanging over us.
The stakes just got even higher.
Completely agree, though I doubt we will see any unrest if Remain wins. If Leave wins, I'd expect the Trots and the SWP to be out and about looking for trouble.
As I understand the far-left have not been supporting Remain. I don't expect unrest if either side win, but I do expect a diseased and difficult political climate that won't be too easy to clear.
I am not sure the far-left is that well-known for its consistency.
I just remembered I have to give a presentation in Coventry on Thursday morning
And I missed the deadline for the postal vote!
Deary me Sunil. What a school boy error that was !
But I have a cunning plan, the same one wot I used on Election Day:
Catch a train from Coventry during the late afternoon, get the Tube from London Euston to Gants Hill, vote (natch!), then do the reverse journey and get back to the Midlands just in time for the 10pm exit poll! It will cost me a train ticket, but "the country comes first"!
There is no exit poll.
Populus for sure, and YouGov will be doing recontacting on the day polls.
anyhoo Darth Eagles, what;s the status with Moniker ?
naughty step or Siberia ?
The mods tell me naughty step for the weekend.
well I think we all need a cooling off things were getting progressively more heated.
hows about a lighter thread or two ?
your top 3 PB moments ?
I was going to publish an AV related thread tonight, but have had to push that to either tomorrow or Sunday.
What we need is an Indyerf2 thread.
I did a few days ago. Brexit leads to Indyref2 thread
no a proper one with James Kelly and Mick Pork and the cast of wings over somerset
ah fun days
I for one do not miss *tears of laughter* and *titter* and *chortle*. I do however, miss Martin Day. If only he could have metaphorically lived to see this day.
I miss James. If ever you were bored and felt like a spat just for the sake of it he was game on.
There seems to be an increasing narrative from labour that this was a hate crime and most labour politician seems to be trying to tie it in with Farage and his poster. I cannot stand the man but Alastair Campbell directly levered into an interview on Sky and the International coverage is doing the same. Whether it is fair or not I believe with more information coming out about the alleged assassin over the next few days and with the HOC tribute on Monday it may just be that Farage could have lost this for leave from a winning position. Indeed the betting and money markets seem to be indicating a more likely result will be remain. My own personal view is that leave may just win but it is less certain than it was and I also believe that any polls researched before yesterday's terrible events need to be considered with caution
I just remembered I have to give a presentation in Coventry on Thursday morning
And I missed the deadline for the postal vote!
Deary me Sunil. What a school boy error that was !
But I have a cunning plan, the same one wot I used on Election Day:
Catch a train from Coventry during the late afternoon, get the Tube from London Euston to Gants Hill, vote (natch!), then do the reverse journey and get back to the Midlands just in time for the 10pm exit poll! It will cost me a train ticket, but "the country comes first"!
There is no exit poll.
Populus for sure, and YouGov will be doing recontacting on the day polls.
anyhoo Darth Eagles, what;s the status with Moniker ?
naughty step or Siberia ?
The mods tell me naughty step for the weekend.
well I think we all need a cooling off things were getting progressively more heated.
hows about a lighter thread or two ?
your top 3 PB moments ?
I was going to publish an AV related thread tonight, but have had to push that to either tomorrow or Sunday.
What we need is an Indyerf2 thread.
I did a few days ago. Brexit leads to Indyref2 thread
no a proper one with James Kelly and Mick Pork and the cast of wings over somerset
ah fun days
I for one do not miss *tears of laughter* and *titter* and *chortle*. I do however, miss Martin Day. If only he could have metaphorically lived to see this day.
I miss James. If ever you were bored and felt like a spat just for the sake of it he was game on.
"I completely understand that Leavers feel very upset about any linkage between the referendum campaign and Jo Cox's death. Whatever her killer's motives, he and he alone is responsible for his actions.
But - and yes, there is a but - Leavers nee...... Yes.
We are in an era of demonization on all sides.
Politics is now a zero sum game - for your side to gain the people on the other side need to lose.
Its 'take it from them and give it to me'.
And its a lot easier to 'take from them' if they can be demonised.
Even better if they can be successfully demonised then taking from them becomes the 'righteous' thing to do.
There is nothing more zero it out."
When you elect representatives, one lot is basically as good as another. It isn't as stark.
Cobblers - when the main parties are *all the same* - millions of disenfranchised voters revolt. They join and vote for fringe parties to make their point instead.
We it - in spades.
They don't like it - so name-call 50% of the population waycists, xenophobes, stupid, vulgar, Little Englanders and on and on and on.
That's not grown-up politics, it's childish and insulting.
Not forgetting carrot-crunchers, football hooligans, people in semis in Watford and of course this:
The Stuart Rose / Emily Thornberry mentality is never short of intolerance and demonisation of people different to themselves.
Britain is not going to be a happy place now that it has discovered what it thinks of other parts of it.
The feckless poor, scroungers, underclass, Chavs, the client state and so on. And that's before we get onto trade unionists and public sector workers. The contempt for the working class from the right has been as vicious as anything thrown from the left. And the right have also put in place plenty of policies over the last few years that have actively hurt working class people - all cheered on by many people on this board who have suddenly discovered the working class may actually be politically useful.
You are so full of poison for these people "from the right" that I worry for your sanity. Do you ever smile, have fun or eat chocolate?
Looks like it's restricted to those who have been training (and testing) outside Russia, eg Athlete who competes for Russia but lives in Europe or the US.
Seems fair enough that they should be allowed in TBH, the problems are with the Russian testing system which from the reports aired today is utterly corrupt.
Most likely they were scared of getting sued by people who weren't in the system that has been found at fault.
I just remembered I have to give a presentation in Coventry on Thursday morning
And I missed the deadline for the postal vote!
Deary me Sunil. What a school boy error that was !
But I have a cunning plan, the same one wot I used on Election Day:
Catch a train from Coventry during the late afternoon, get the Tube from London Euston to Gants Hill, vote (natch!), then do the reverse journey and get back to the Midlands just in time for the 10pm exit poll! It will cost me a train ticket, but "the country comes first"!
There is no exit poll.
Populus for sure, and YouGov will be doing recontacting on the day polls.
anyhoo Darth Eagles, what;s the status with Moniker ?
naughty step or Siberia ?
The mods tell me naughty step for the weekend.
well I think we all need a cooling off things were getting progressively more heated.
hows about a lighter thread or two ?
your top 3 PB moments ?
I was going to publish an AV related thread tonight, but have had to push that to either tomorrow or Sunday.
What we need is an Indyerf2 thread.
I did a few days ago. Brexit leads to Indyref2 thread
no a proper one with James Kelly and Mick Pork and the cast of wings over somerset
ah fun days
I for one do not miss *tears of laughter* and *titter* and *chortle*. I do however, miss Martin Day. If only he could have metaphorically lived to see this day.
I miss James. If ever you were bored and felt like a spat just for the sake of it he was game on.
On literally any subject under the Sun.
LOL with Neil snapping at his heels undermining every point James made.
"I completely understand that Leavers feel very upset about any linkage between the referendum campaign and Jo Cox's death. Whatever her killer's motives, he and he alone is responsible for his actions.
But - and yes, there is a but - Leavers need to understand that many small l liberals quite genuinely believe that the nature of the Leave campaign has contributed to an atmosphere of intolerance and demonisation in which an attack on someone active in politics seems not acceptable but expectable. Those small l liberals aren't saying it for tactical advantage in the referendum campaign, they believe it."
Yes.
We are in an era of demonization on all sides.
Politics is now a zero sum game - for your side to gain the people on the other side need to lose.
Its 'take it from them and give it to me'.
And its a lot easier to 'take from them' if they can be demonised.
Even better if they can be successfully demonised then taking from them becomes the 'righteous' thing to do.
There is nothing more zero sum than a referendum, which is why I don't like them. You are going to people and asking "Which is it? Yes or No? Black or White? Take it or Leave it?" When it really is "Depends. Up to a Point. Let's see what we get and then make a decision." Or even, "I don't know - you work it out."
When you elect representatives, one lot is basically as good as another. It isn't as stark.
Cobblers - when the main parties are *all the same* - millions of disenfranchised voters revolt. They join and vote for fringe parties to make their point instead.
We only got a referendum *because* one of the main parties was scared it'd lose too many more votes to UKIP. And now the can of worms is open. And those who wanted to ignore all the unhappiness are being faced with it - in spades.
They don't like it - so name-call 50% of the population waycists, xenophobes, stupid, vulgar, Little Englanders and on and on and on.
That's not grown-up politics, it's childish and insulting.
What is it with the deliberate misspelling of racist? It's very, very odd.
It's a way to shut down any discussion of the perceived xenophobic and racist aspects of the Leave campaign. Those who complain are likened to spoilt children, not adults. Thus, what they say can be safely ignored. So, if you think the Farage poster was remarkably similar to a piece of Nazi propaganda you are accusing anyone who supports Leave of being a "waycist". You know the rest.
I don't think post-murder polls will tell us much about its impact. It takes a few days for events to feed into voting intention. But (at risk of repeating myself) I don't think it will have much effect anyway.
If my real life conversations today are anything to go by, no effect.
Football and Brexit (as if yesterday didn't happen)
Just a couple of odd afterthought comments about the late MP. Has impacted about as much as a news report about a victim of a fatal accident on the M1
Its not as if anyone outside politics had ever heard of her until this kicked off
The BBC News website is bordering on the farcical. If Diana had died during the internet age, I don't think you would have seen much more coverage.
13 stories - including a rolling news feed and 'In Pictures' 5 videos - including of a little girl crying at the murder scene; and a Canadian MP crying
I see Labour have opened a book of condolence. Will there be one in every town? Was there one for Lee Rigby?
It's unseemly. The Westminster and media elite have circled the wagons.
did it ask you which of the two conservative parties you'd vote for ?
Sadly not. I spent last night contemplating life outside of the Tory party.
Don't go.
If Farage joins/is ennobled/becomes a member of a post Leave Tory led government, I'm outta here
Where to? Libertarian?
It's the Tories or nowhere for me.
I can't see me doing a Winston McKenzie
I absolutely respect that. For all that some say it isn't, politics is tribal. I've been a Labour party member for my entire adult life but my level of involvement has gone from one end of the scale to the other. My strike over Iraq and the general sense of direction lasted 8 years in the end - I waited until my party came more in line with what I wanted them to be before getting active again.
Cobblers - when the main parties are *all the same* - millions of disenfranchised voters revolt. They join and vote for fringe parties to make their point instead.
We it - in spades.
They don't like it - so name-call 50% of the population waycists, xenophobes, stupid, vulgar, Little Englanders and on and on and on.
That's not grown-up politics, it's childish and insulting.
Not forgetting carrot-crunchers, football hooligans, people in semis in Watford and of course this:
The Stuart Rose / Emily Thornberry mentality is never short of intolerance and demonisation of people different to themselves.
Britain is not going to be a happy place now that it has discovered what it thinks of other parts of it.
The feckless poor, scroungers, underclass, Chavs, the client state and so on. And that's before we get onto trade unionists and public sector workers.
The contempt for the working class from the right has been as vicious as anything thrown from the left. And the right have also put in place plenty of policies over the last few years that have actively hurt working class people - all cheered on by many people on this board who have suddenly discovered the working class may actually be politically useful.
Indeed so.
And before that the gloating of guardianista wimmen about the 'mancession' of 2008-2009 as working class men lost their jobs in manufacturing and construction.
Or the glee of Labour when they shat on rural areas whilst in government.
Then there was the 'bigoted women' Mrs Duffy - how much sympathy did she get from metropolitan leftists ?
Who was it who said "its not enough to succeed, others must fail" ?
There seems to be an increasing narrative from labour that this was a hate crime and most labour politician seems to be trying to tie it in with Farage and his poster. I cannot stand the man but Alastair Campbell directly levered into an interview on Sky and the International coverage is doing the same. Whether it is fair or not I believe with more information coming out about the alleged assassin over the next few days and with the HOC tribute on Monday it may just be that Farage could have lost this for leave from a winning position. Indeed the betting and money markets seem to be indicating a more likely result will be remain. My own personal view is that leave may just win but it is less certain than it was and I also believe that any polls researched before yesterday's terrible events need to be considered with caution
At this point who knows? The police will be delighted to know that I'm prepared to wait until they report on their investigations before I make any judgements. The Internet is remarkably silly at times like this.
I would say that the improvements in the stock market are more likely tied to some recent good news (e.g. Fed deferring the expected rate rise, ECB/BoE announcing full liquidity support in the event of Brexit) than any premonition of victory for Remain. I think it's also a triple witching day.
I just remembered I have to give a presentation in Coventry on Thursday morning
And I missed the deadline for the postal vote!
Deary me Sunil. What a school boy error that was !
But I have a cunning plan, the same one wot I used on Election Day:
Catch a train from Coventry during the late afternoon, get the Tube from London Euston to Gants Hill, vote (natch!), then do the reverse journey and get back to the Midlands just in time for the 10pm exit poll! It will cost me a train ticket, but "the country comes first"!
There is no exit poll.
Populus for sure, and YouGov will be doing recontacting on the day polls.
anyhoo Darth Eagles, what;s the status with Moniker ?
naughty step or Siberia ?
The mods tell me naughty step for the weekend.
well I think we all need a cooling off things were getting progressively more heated.
hows about a lighter thread or two ?
your top 3 PB moments ?
I was going to publish an AV related thread tonight, but have had to push that to either tomorrow or Sunday.
What we need is an Indyerf2 thread.
I did a few days ago. Brexit leads to Indyref2 thread
no a proper one with James Kelly and Mick Pork and the cast of wings over somerset
ah fun days
I for one do not miss *tears of laughter* and *titter* and *chortle*. I do however, miss Martin Day. If only he could have metaphorically lived to see this day.
The day after GE2015 would have been of deep joy to Martin Day on the subject of the yellow peril.
There seems to be an increasing narrative from labour that this was a hate crime and most labour politician seems to be trying to tie it in with Farage and his poster. I cannot stand the man but Alastair Campbell directly levered into an interview on Sky and the International coverage is doing the same. Whether it is fair or not I believe with more information coming out about the alleged assassin over the next few days and with the HOC tribute on Monday it may just be that Farage could have lost this for leave from a winning position. Indeed the betting and money markets seem to be indicating a more likely result will be remain. My own personal view is that leave may just win but it is less certain than it was and I also believe that any polls researched before yesterday's terrible events need to be considered with caution
I think it is more likely that it will repulse the voters and cement a leave win. By levelling "hate" at leave they are levelling "hate" at their voters and that will not go down well.
Neither will the general over the top hoo hah about one death among their own from people who are quite willing to send soldiers to their death on dubious neo imperialist foreign adventures and quite willing to allow the EU to insist that murderers and the like from other EU countries are able to live here.
I don't think post-murder polls will tell us much about its impact. It takes a few days for events to feed into voting intention. But (at risk of repeating myself) I don't think it will have much effect anyway.
If my real life conversations today are anything to go by, no effect.
Football and Brexit (as if yesterday didn't happen)
Just a couple of odd afterthought comments about the late MP. Has impacted about as much as a news report about a victim of a fatal accident on the M1
Its not as if anyone outside politics had ever heard of her until this kicked off
The BBC News website is bordering on the farcical. If Diana had died during the internet age, I don't think you would have seen much more coverage.
13 stories - including a rolling news feed and 'In Pictures' 5 videos - including of a little girl crying at the murder scene; and a Canadian MP crying
This is wall to wall broadcast coverage and Sky are saying just now that proper campaigning will not start before Tuesday. I cannot believe that over the next few days anyone will be unaware of this tragic event
"I completely understand that Leavers feel very upset about any linkage between the referendum campaign and Jo Cox's death. Whatever her killer's motives, he and he alone is responsible for his actions.
But - and yes, there is a but - Leavers nee...... Yes.
We are in an era of demonization on all sides.
Politics is now a zero sum game - for your side to gain the people on the other side need to lose.
Its 'take it from them and give it to me'.
And ed.
Even better if they can be successfully demonised then taking from them becomes the 'righteous' thing to do.
There is nothing more zero it out."
When you elect representatives, one lot is basically as good as another. It isn't as stark.
Cobblers - instead.
We it - in spades.
They on and on.
That's not grown-up politics, it's childish and insulting.
Not forgetting carrot-crunchers, football hooligans, people in semis in Watford and of course this:
The Stuart Rose / Emily Thornberry mentality is never short of intolerance and demonisation of people different to themselves.
Britain is not going to be a happy place now that it has discovered what it thinks of other parts of it.
The feckless poor, scroungers, underclass, Chavs, the client state and so on. And that's before we get onto trade unionists and public sector workers. The contempt for the working class from the right has been as vicious as anything thrown from the left. And the right have also put in place plenty of policies over the last few years that have actively hurt working class people - all cheered on by many people on this board who have suddenly discovered the working class may actually be politically useful.
You are so full of poison for these people "from the right" that I worry for your sanity. Do you ever smile, have fun or eat chocolate?
I do. But you are correct that I feel nothing but contempt for right wingers who have suddenly discovered that the working class have been having a pretty crap time of it for a number of years. And the idea that when Boris, Priti and co do take over they are going to be remotely concerned about people whose votes they no longer need and whose lives they know nothing about is far-fetched to say the least.
I don't think post-murder polls will tell us much about its impact. It takes a few days for events to feed into voting intention. But (at risk of repeating myself) I don't think it will have much effect anyway.
If my real life conversations today are anything to go by, no effect.
Football and Brexit (as if yesterday didn't happen)
Just a couple of odd afterthought comments about the late MP. Has impacted about as much as a news report about a victim of a fatal accident on the M1
Its not as if anyone outside politics had ever heard of her until this kicked off
The BBC News website is bordering on the farcical. If Diana had died during the internet age, I don't think you would have seen much more coverage.
13 stories - including a rolling news feed and 'In Pictures' 5 videos - including of a little girl crying at the murder scene; and a Canadian MP crying
This is wall to wall broadcast coverage and Sky are saying just now that proper campaigning will not start before Tuesday. I cannot believe that over the next few days anyone will be unaware of this tragic event
You think I'm going to spend Father Day on maudlin shroud waving ?
Mr. D, not sure it was quite the same system, although I agree with you.
PR was responsible for Hitler coming to power. AV leads to depression, loneliness and Ed Miliband.
FPTP is the best system.
Quite right
Given the regional concentrations of support in inter-war Germany it is probably that Hitler's mid-30% election result would have delivered him a straight majority, or very close to it, under FPTP, whereas in reality he had to bully and dupe Hindenburg and other parties to achieve total power.
Goering reckoned the Nazis would have won every seat under FPTP...
Didn't they only get 40% of the vote? Or am I misremembering.
44%, but two-and-a-half times the votes of the nearest party.
Cube-law theory gives the Nazis 90% of the seats, so Goering wasn't out of the ballpark.
Do you think this ghastly murder may have a material impact on the campaign, Rod?
Well it already has had quite an impact on the campaign. But I don't think it will have any impact on the result beyond that, and campaigns tend not to have much effect anyhow, especially in the final days.
Whats your current prediction Rod ?
I have nothing to offer but the polls, which indicate about a 4% lead for Leave...
I don't think post-murder polls will tell us much about its impact. It takes a few days for events to feed into voting intention. But (at risk of repeating myself) I don't think it will have much effect anyway.
If my real life conversations today are anything to go by, no effect.
Football and Brexit (as if yesterday didn't happen)
Just a couple of odd afterthought comments about the late MP. Has impacted about as much as a news report about a victim of a fatal accident on the M1
Its not as if anyone outside politics had ever heard of her until this kicked off
The BBC News website is bordering on the farcical. If Diana had died during the internet age, I don't think you would have seen much more coverage.
13 stories - including a rolling news feed and 'In Pictures' 5 videos - including of a little girl crying at the murder scene; and a Canadian MP crying
This is wall to wall broadcast coverage and Sky are saying just now that proper campaigning will not start before Tuesday. I cannot believe that over the next few days anyone will be unaware of this tragic event
Hopefully someone will be charged with murder, that will shut the media up for fear of contempt.
There seems to be an increasing narrative from labour that this was a hate crime and most labour politician seems to be trying to tie it in with Farage and his poster. I cannot stand the man but Alastair Campbell directly levered into an interview on Sky and the International coverage is doing the same. Whether it is fair or not I believe with more information coming out about the alleged assassin over the next few days and with the HOC tribute on Monday it may just be that Farage could have lost this for leave from a winning position. Indeed the betting and money markets seem to be indicating a more likely result will be remain. My own personal view is that leave may just win but it is less certain than it was and I also believe that any polls researched before yesterday's terrible events need to be considered with caution
I think it is more likely that it will repulse the voters and cement a leave win. By levelling "hate" at leave they are levelling "hate" at their voters and that will not go down well.
Neither will the general over the top hoo hah about one death among their own from people who are quite willing to send soldiers to their death on dubious neo imperialist foreign adventures and quite willing to allow the EU to insist that murderers and the like from other EU countries are able to live here.
I think you may be living in hope rather than reality but we will know in a weeks time the result
I just remembered I have to give a presentation in Coventry on Thursday morning
And I missed the deadline for the postal vote!
Deary me Sunil. What a school boy error that was !
But I have a cunning plan, the same one wot I used on Election Day:
Catch a train from Coventry during the late afternoon, get the Tube from London Euston to Gants Hill, vote (natch!), then do the reverse journey and get back to the Midlands just in time for the 10pm exit poll! It will cost me a train ticket, but "the country comes first"!
There is no exit poll.
Populus for sure, and YouGov will be doing recontacting on the day polls.
anyhoo Darth Eagles, what;s the status with Moniker ?
naughty step or Siberia ?
The mods tell me naughty step for the weekend.
well I think we all need a cooling off things were getting progressively more heated.
hows about a lighter thread or two ?
your top 3 PB moments ?
I was going to publish an AV related thread tonight, but have had to push that to either tomorrow or Sunday.
What we need is an Indyerf2 thread.
I did a few days ago. Brexit leads to Indyref2 thread
no a proper one with James Kelly and Mick Pork and the cast of wings over somerset
ah fun days
I for one do not miss *tears of laughter* and *titter* and *chortle*. I do however, miss Martin Day. If only he could have metaphorically lived to see this day.
The day after GE2015 would have been of deep joy to Martin Day on the subject of the yellow peril.
Indeed! In his honour, I give you: "Taxi for the Lib Dem party!!".
I don't think post-murder polls will tell us much about its impact. It takes a few days for events to feed into voting intention. But (at risk of repeating myself) I don't think it will have much effect anyway.
If my real life conversations today are anything to go by, no effect.
Football and Brexit (as if yesterday didn't happen)
Just a couple of odd afterthought comments about the late MP. Has impacted about as much as a news report about a victim of a fatal accident on the M1
Its not as if anyone outside politics had ever heard of her until this kicked off
I am also starting to wonder if the general public feel the same way as the politicians do about this. The politicians and journos are going to be strongly focused on this as it is one of their own. I guess it is worth comparing the news coverage with that of the policeman who was run over when deploying the stinger.
I expect there might be a strong impact on the referendum in Kirklees but less so elsewhere
That is a better comparison. The general tone of the (few) comments could be summed up as "Very sad for her family but as for the other MPs, now you have some idea what its like for many people trying to do their job who have to deal with the public. Grow a pair, get used to it and stop thinking you are something special."
British voters are deeply and evenly divided about whether to quit the European Union in next week's historic vote, according to a NBC News/SurveyMonkey U.K. poll.
The new poll has the historic vote as a toss-up: 48 percent of Britons say they'll cast a vote to "Leave" the EU in the referendum known as "Brexit," and an identical 48 percent prefer to "Remain." A mere 4 percent are undecided just a week before the June 23 vote.
British voters are deeply and evenly divided about whether to quit the European Union in next week's historic vote, according to a NBC News/SurveyMonkey U.K. poll.
The new poll has the historic vote as a toss-up: 48 percent of Britons say they'll cast a vote to "Leave" the EU in the referendum known as "Brexit," and an identical 48 percent prefer to "Remain." A mere 4 percent are undecided just a week before the June 23 vote.
British voters are deeply and evenly divided about whether to quit the European Union in next week's historic vote, according to a NBC News/SurveyMonkey U.K. poll.
The new poll has the historic vote as a toss-up: 48 percent of Britons say they'll cast a vote to "Leave" the EU in the referendum known as "Brexit," and an identical 48 percent prefer to "Remain." A mere 4 percent are undecided just a week before the June 23 vote.
http://www.lbc.co.uk/iain-slams-those-trying-to-politicise-jo-coxs-death---132411 ""We have no idea, whether there was political angle to this murder yesterday. What we do know is that the man who has been arrested has a history of mental health problems." "That is a fact. It's about the only fact that we do know." "Now to attribute the hateful actions of one man to any political agenda at this stage speaks more about those who try to do this than they might like to admit.""
I do. But you are correct that I feel nothing but contempt for right wingers who have suddenly discovered that the working class have been having a pretty crap time of it for a number of years. And the idea that when Boris, Priti and co do take over they are going to be remotely concerned about people whose votes they no longer need and whose lives they know nothing about is far-fetched to say the least.
They may not, but if they don't we can elect a radical left wing government who will sort it free of EU interference. We invented human rights and protection for workers. Damned if we need nanny EU to tell us what to do, and the EU could in any case become rather right wing if all these mainland nationalist parties keep doing well and then we could do damn all about it.
The issue is democracy. A parliament that is supreme with representatives having the power to sort things and the people having the power to boot them out if they don't
Reposting from another (investing) forum that analyses Brexit etc: (P2P)
The poster knows his onions...
A few days ago I posted a link to an online poll showing an unbelievable 81% Leave vote www.pollstation.uk/eu-referendum/poll/ which is now up to c. 133,000 votes. Clearly the types of people finding and responding to that poll (I found it via a link on a broadsheet comment section) are not the average demographic that the polling agencies have so carefully constructed.
The bar graph on that page can be changed to a line graph over time by clicking the bottom right icon. Given the events of the last 24 hours, and what may be a muted tone for the remainder of the campaign, I thought it might be worth analysing how the votes on this poll have been allocated on a daily basis since the start of June.
Apart from the 9th of June, the 2000 plus votes added each day have been pretty consistently around the 80% mark for leave. The votes so far today seem in line with recent days.
I don't think post-murder polls will tell us much about its impact. It takes a few days for events to feed into voting intention. But (at risk of repeating myself) I don't think it will have much effect anyway.
If my real life conversations today are anything to go by, no effect.
Football and Brexit (as if yesterday didn't happen)
Just a couple of odd afterthought comments about the late MP. Has impacted about as much as a news report about a victim of a fatal accident on the M1
Its not as if anyone outside politics had ever heard of her until this kicked off
The BBC News website is bordering on the farcical. If Diana had died during the internet age, I don't think you would have seen much more coverage.
13 stories - including a rolling news feed and 'In Pictures' 5 videos - including of a little girl crying at the murder scene; and a Canadian MP crying
This is wall to wall broadcast coverage and Sky are saying just now that proper campaigning will not start before Tuesday. I cannot believe that over the next few days anyone will be unaware of this tragic event
You think I'm going to spend Father Day on maudlin shroud waving ?
I hope everyone who is a Father, or Grandfather like myself will have a wonderful and happy day on Sunday. Last year on Fathers day my eldest son married his Canadian fiancee in Kelowna, BC and it was the first time in 25 years my two sons, and my daughter had been with me on Fathers Day. At the end of this month he leaves New Zealand after 13 years and starts his married life in Vancouver.
Cobblers - when the main parties are *all the same* - millions of disenfranchised voters revolt. They join and vote for fringe parties to make their point instead.
We it - in spades.
They don't like it - so name-call 50% of the population waycists, xenophobes, stupid, vulgar, Little Englanders and on and on and on.
That's not grown-up politics, it's childish and insulting.
Not forgetting carrot-crunchers, football hooligans, people in semis in Watford and of course this:
The Stuart Rose / Emily Thornberry mentality is never short of intolerance and demonisation of people different to themselves.
Britain is not going to be a happy place now that it has discovered what it thinks of other parts of it.
The feckless poor, scroungers, underclass, Chavs, the client state and so on. And that's before we get onto trade unionists and public sector workers.
The contempt for the working class from the right has been as vicious as anything thrown from the left. And the right have also put in place plenty of policies over the last few years that have actively hurt working class people - all cheered on by many people on this board who have suddenly discovered the working class may actually be politically useful.
Indeed so.
And before that the gloating of guardianista wimmen about the 'mancession' of 2008-2009 as working class men lost their jobs in manufacturing and construction.
Or the glee of Labour when they shat on rural areas whilst in government.
Then there was the 'bigoted women' Mrs Duffy - how much sympathy did she get from metropolitan leftists ?
Who was it who said "its not enough to succeed, others must fail" ?
That's the mentality of Britain now.
Completely agree. This is not about left or right, it is about class. The middle class establishment - Leave and Remain - has shown it knows nothing about and cares very little for working class voters. They are the punch-bags of this country and will continue to be so. The truth is that the working class's problem is that it is now nowhere near 50% of the population. It is not important politically in normal circumstances and so can be safely ignored. It is Mondeo man who matters, or Worcester woman; not people that live in sink estates in Leeds, Liverpool or London. They either do not vote or live in very safe Labour constituencies. It's the nature of a referendum - no constituencies, a binary choice - that has given the working class its day in the sun. On 24th June they will be forgotten or despised once more.
Out with friends for a fortifying drink last night. All early 40s, professional jobs. Balance of Yes/No voters in Indyref. All voting Remain.
Very worried about EU ref as their parents (all were indyref No voters) had already postal voted, or were planning to vote Leave and were pretty passionate about it. Affluent central Scotland middle class types.
Reposting from another (investing) forum that analyses Brexit etc: (P2P)
The poster knows his onions...
A few days ago I posted a link to an online poll showing an unbelievable 81% Leave vote www.pollstation.uk/eu-referendum/poll/ which is now up to c. 133,000 votes. Clearly the types of people finding and responding to that poll (I found it via a link on a broadsheet comment section) are not the average demographic that the polling agencies have so carefully constructed.
The bar graph on that page can be changed to a line graph over time by clicking the bottom right icon. Given the events of the last 24 hours, and what may be a muted tone for the remainder of the campaign, I thought it might be worth analysing how the votes on this poll have been allocated on a daily basis since the start of June.
Apart from the 9th of June, the 2000 plus votes added each day have been pretty consistently around the 80% mark for leave. The votes so far today seem in line with recent days.
Online self selecting polls attract mainly the most fanatical and are basically worthless
Reposting from another (investing) forum that analyses Brexit etc: (P2P)
The poster knows his onions...
A few days ago I posted a link to an online poll showing an unbelievable 81% Leave vote www.pollstation.uk/eu-referendum/poll/ which is now up to c. 133,000 votes. Clearly the types of people finding and responding to that poll (I found it via a link on a broadsheet comment section) are not the average demographic that the polling agencies have so carefully constructed.
The bar graph on that page can be changed to a line graph over time by clicking the bottom right icon. Given the events of the last 24 hours, and what may be a muted tone for the remainder of the campaign, I thought it might be worth analysing how the votes on this poll have been allocated on a daily basis since the start of June.
Apart from the 9th of June, the 2000 plus votes added each day have been pretty consistently around the 80% mark for leave. The votes so far today seem in line with recent days.
Reposting from another (investing) forum that analyses Brexit etc: (P2P)
The poster knows his onions...
A few days ago I posted a link to an online poll showing an unbelievable 81% Leave vote www.pollstation.uk/eu-referendum/poll/ which is now up to c. 133,000 votes. Clearly the types of people finding and responding to that poll (I found it via a link on a broadsheet comment section) are not the average demographic that the polling agencies have so carefully constructed.
The bar graph on that page can be changed to a line graph over time by clicking the bottom right icon. Given the events of the last 24 hours, and what may be a muted tone for the remainder of the campaign, I thought it might be worth analysing how the votes on this poll have been allocated on a daily basis since the start of June.
Apart from the 9th of June, the 2000 plus votes added each day have been pretty consistently around the 80% mark for leave. The votes so far today seem in line with recent days.
I don't think post-murder polls will tell us much about its impact. It takes a few days for events to feed into voting intention. But (at risk of repeating myself) I don't think it will have much effect anyway.
If my real life conversations today are anything to go by, no effect.
Football and Brexit (as if yesterday didn't happen)
Just a couple of odd afterthought comments about the late MP. Has impacted about as much as a news report about a victim of a fatal accident on the M1
Its not as if anyone outside politics had ever heard of her until this kicked off
The BBC News website is bordering on the farcical. If Diana had died during the internet age, I don't think you would have seen much more coverage.
13 stories - including a rolling news feed and 'In Pictures' 5 videos - including of a little girl crying at the murder scene; and a Canadian MP crying
This is wall to wall broadcast coverage and Sky are saying just now that proper campaigning will not start before Tuesday. I cannot believe that over the next few days anyone will be unaware of this tragic event
Just 2 days to save the EU.
You just KNOW somebody is going to come out with "Vote to Remain - it's what Jo would have wanted...."
Britain’s most charismatic mainstream politician finds himself yoked together in the Brexit debate with Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, who this week unveiled a poster showing a file of wretched refugees under the headline: “Breaking point.”
Mr Johnson says these are “not my politics” and that Mr Farage is not part of the official Leave campaign, but the message has helped to power the Leave campaign ahead in the polls.
If Mr Cameron loses the referendum, many Tory MPs believe the prime minister would be out of Downing Street by the autumn. Mr Johnson is the favourite to succeed him, and the widely held suspicion at Westminster is that the former mayor put his own ambitions before the national interest.
Mr Johnson denies that categorically. But if he does become prime minister on the back of a Brexit vote, he will have to reconcile the open, “One Nation”, immigration-friendly country that he wants to build with the defensive, apprehensive Britain that has emerged during the campaign he has fronted.
I don't think post-murder polls will tell us much about its impact. It takes a few days for events to feed into voting intention. But (at risk of repeating myself) I don't think it will have much effect anyway.
If my real life conversations today are anything to go by, no effect.
Football and Brexit (as if yesterday didn't happen)
Just a couple of odd afterthought comments about the late MP. Has impacted about as much as a news report about a victim of a fatal accident on the M1
Its not as if anyone outside politics had ever heard of her until this kicked off
The BBC News website is bordering on the farcical. If Diana had died during the internet age, I don't think you would have seen much more coverage.
13 stories - including a rolling news feed and 'In Pictures' 5 videos - including of a little girl crying at the murder scene; and a Canadian MP crying
This is wall to wall broadcast coverage and Sky are saying just now that proper campaigning will not start before Tuesday. I cannot believe that over the next few days anyone will be unaware of this tragic event
You think I'm going to spend Father Day on maudlin shroud waving ?
I hope everyone who is a Father, or Grandfather like myself will have a wonderful and happy day on Sunday. Last year on Fathers day my eldest son married his Canadian fiancee in Kelowna, BC and it was the first time in 25 years my two sons, and my daughter had been with me on Fathers Day. At the end of this month he leaves New Zealand after 13 years and starts his married life in Vancouver.
Best wishes for a good day Mr G I'll be celebrating early tomorrow with my daughter in Oxfordshire and then spoiling my other half on Sunday,
Reposting from another (investing) forum that analyses Brexit etc: (P2P)
The poster knows his onions...
A few days ago I posted a link to an online poll showing an unbelievable 81% Leave vote www.pollstation.uk/eu-referendum/poll/ which is now up to c. 133,000 votes. Clearly the types of people finding and responding to that poll (I found it via a link on a broadsheet comment section) are not the average demographic that the polling agencies have so carefully constructed.
The bar graph on that page can be changed to a line graph over time by clicking the bottom right icon. Given the events of the last 24 hours, and what may be a muted tone for the remainder of the campaign, I thought it might be worth analysing how the votes on this poll have been allocated on a daily basis since the start of June.
Apart from the 9th of June, the 2000 plus votes added each day have been pretty consistently around the 80% mark for leave. The votes so far today seem in line with recent days.
Surely this is just a voodoo poll.
Its the "no change" bit which is of possible relevance to my mind.
British voters are deeply and evenly divided about whether to quit the European Union in next week's historic vote, according to a NBC News/SurveyMonkey U.K. poll.
The new poll has the historic vote as a toss-up: 48 percent of Britons say they'll cast a vote to "Leave" the EU in the referendum known as "Brexit," and an identical 48 percent prefer to "Remain." A mere 4 percent are undecided just a week before the June 23 vote.
Out with friends for a fortifying drink last night. All early 40s, professional jobs. Balance of Yes/No voters in Indyref. All voting Remain.
Very worried about EU ref as their parents (all were indyref No voters) had already postal voted, or were planning to vote Leave and were pretty passionate about it. Affluent central Scotland middle class types.
You think 2 or 3 Leavers in that company are going to admit to it?
Completely agree. This is not about left or right, it is about class. The middle class establishment - Leave and Remain - has shown it knows nothing about and cares very little for working class voters. They are the punch-bags of this country and will continue to be so. The truth is that the working class's problem is that it is now nowhere near 50% of the population. It is not important politically in normal circumstances and so can be safely ignored. It is Mondeo man who matters, or Worcester woman; not people that live in sink estates in Leeds, Liverpool or London. They either do not vote or live in very safe Labour constituencies. It's the nature of a referendum - no constituencies, a binary choice - that has given the working class its day in the sun. On 24th June they will be forgotten or despised once more.
The establishment is not middle class. It is a class of its own, that thinks itself superior to the middle classes and all other classes.
Britain’s most charismatic mainstream politician finds himself yoked together in the Brexit debate with Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, who this week unveiled a poster showing a file of wretched refugees under the headline: “Breaking point.”
Mr Johnson says these are “not my politics” and that Mr Farage is not part of the official Leave campaign, but the message has helped to power the Leave campaign ahead in the polls.
If Mr Cameron loses the referendum, many Tory MPs believe the prime minister would be out of Downing Street by the autumn. Mr Johnson is the favourite to succeed him, and the widely held suspicion at Westminster is that the former mayor put his own ambitions before the national interest.
Mr Johnson denies that categorically. But if he does become prime minister on the back of a Brexit vote, he will have to reconcile the open, “One Nation”, immigration-friendly country that he wants to build with the defensive, apprehensive Britain that has emerged during the campaign he has fronted.
I don't think post-murder polls will tell us much about its impact. It takes a few days for events to feed into voting intention. But (at risk of repeating myself) I don't think it will have much effect anyway.
If my real life conversations today are anything to go by, no effect.
Football and Brexit (as if yesterday didn't happen)
Just a couple of odd afterthought comments about the late MP. Has impacted about as much as a news report about a victim of a fatal accident on the M1
Its not as if anyone outside politics had ever heard of her until this kicked off
The BBC News website is bordering on the farcical. If Diana had died during the internet age, I don't think you would have seen much more coverage.
13 stories - including a rolling news feed and 'In Pictures' 5 videos - including of a little girl crying at the murder scene; and a Canadian MP crying
This is wall to wall broadcast coverage and Sky are saying just now that proper campaigning will not start before Tuesday. I cannot believe that over the next few days anyone will be unaware of this tragic event
You think I'm going to spend Father Day on maudlin shroud waving ?
I hope everyone who is a Father, or Grandfather like myself will have a wonderful and happy day on Sunday. Last year on Fathers day my eldest son married his Canadian fiancee in Kelowna, BC and it was the first time in 25 years my two sons, and my daughter had been with me on Fathers Day. At the end of this month he leaves New Zealand after 13 years and starts his married life in Vancouver.
Best wishes for a good day Mr G I'll be celebrating early tomorrow with my daughter in Oxfordshire and then spoiling my other half on Sunday,
here's to good weather !
Have a great day - think the weather forecast is quite good
British voters are deeply and evenly divided about whether to quit the European Union in next week's historic vote, according to a NBC News/SurveyMonkey U.K. poll.
The new poll has the historic vote as a toss-up: 48 percent of Britons say they'll cast a vote to "Leave" the EU in the referendum known as "Brexit," and an identical 48 percent prefer to "Remain." A mere 4 percent are undecided just a week before the June 23 vote.
There seems to be an increasing narrative from labour that this was a hate crime and most labour politician seems to be trying to tie it in with Farage and his poster. I cannot stand the man but Alastair Campbell directly levered into an interview on Sky and the International coverage is doing the same. Whether it is fair or not I believe with more information coming out about the alleged assassin over the next few days and with the HOC tribute on Monday it may just be that Farage could have lost this for leave from a winning position. Indeed the betting and money markets seem to be indicating a more likely result will be remain. My own personal view is that leave may just win but it is less certain than it was and I also believe that any polls researched before yesterday's terrible events need to be considered with caution
I can't imagine anything more likely to put the backs up people who are contemplating a vote for Leave. Especially, Labour voters.
Reposting from another (investing) forum that analyses Brexit etc: (P2P)
The poster knows his onions...
A few days ago I posted a link to an online poll showing an unbelievable 81% Leave vote www.pollstation.uk/eu-referendum/poll/ which is now up to c. 133,000 votes. Clearly the types of people finding and responding to that poll (I found it via a link on a broadsheet comment section) are not the average demographic that the polling agencies have so carefully constructed.
The bar graph on that page can be changed to a line graph over time by clicking the bottom right icon. Given the events of the last 24 hours, and what may be a muted tone for the remainder of the campaign, I thought it might be worth analysing how the votes on this poll have been allocated on a daily basis since the start of June.
Apart from the 9th of June, the 2000 plus votes added each day have been pretty consistently around the 80% mark for leave. The votes so far today seem in line with recent days.
Surely this is just a voodoo poll.
Wouldn't let me vote as I'm not in the UK. Looks like a voodoo poll though, has a self-selecting participation. Oh, and it says 81/16/3 which is way out of line with anything else!
Out with friends for a fortifying drink last night. All early 40s, professional jobs. Balance of Yes/No voters in Indyref. All voting Remain.
Very worried about EU ref as their parents (all were indyref No voters) had already postal voted, or were planning to vote Leave and were pretty passionate about it. Affluent central Scotland middle class types.
You think 2 or 3 Leavers in that company are going to admit to it?
I think we have to respect anecdota. If I was a professional middle class person in (say) my 30s with children and a mortgage I'd be voting Remain. Family before country. Country before party. Entirely rational and respectable.
British voters are deeply and evenly divided about whether to quit the European Union in next week's historic vote, according to a NBC News/SurveyMonkey U.K. poll.
The new poll has the historic vote as a toss-up: 48 percent of Britons say they'll cast a vote to "Leave" the EU in the referendum known as "Brexit," and an identical 48 percent prefer to "Remain." A mere 4 percent are undecided just a week before the June 23 vote.
"I completely understand that Leavers feel very upset about any linkage between the referendum campaign and Jo Cox's death. Whatever her killer's motives, he and he alone is responsible for his actions.
But - and yes, there is a but - Leavers nee...... Yes.
.... o do.
There is nothing more zero it out."
When you elect representatives, one lot is basically as good as another. It isn't as stark.
Cobblers - instead.
We it - in spades.
They on and on.
That's not grown-up politics, it's childish and insulting.
Not forgetting carrot-crunchers, football hooligans, people in semis in Watford and of course this:
The Stuart Rose / Emily Thornberry mentality is never short of intolerance and demonisation of people different to themselves.
Britain is not going to be a happy place now that it has discovered what it thinks of other parts of it.
The feckless poor, scroungers, underclass, Chavs, the client state and so on. And that's before we get onto trade unionists and public sector workers. The contempt for the working class from the right has been as vicious as anything thrown from the left. And the right have also put in place plenty of policies over the last few years that have actively hurt working class people - all cheered on by many people on this board who have suddenly discovered the working class may actually be politically useful.
You are so full of poison for these people "from the right" that I worry for your sanity. Do you ever smile, have fun or eat chocolate?
I do. But you are correct that I feel nothing but contempt for right wingers who have suddenly discovered that the working class have been having a pretty crap time of it for a number of years. And the idea that when Boris, Priti and co do take over they are going to be remotely concerned about people whose votes they no longer need and whose lives they know nothing about is far-fetched to say the least.
I am off to see my working class father in hospital. Being concerned about the working class is not something new to me. Think about it before you issue a wide smear. Instead of being on here, why not go out and cheer up someone else?
I just remembered I have to give a presentation in Coventry on Thursday morning
And I missed the deadline for the postal vote!
Deary me Sunil. What a school boy error that was !
But I have a cunning plan, the same one wot I used on Election Day:
Catch a train from Coventry during the late afternoon, get the Tube from London Euston to Gants Hill, vote (natch!), then do the reverse journey and get back to the Midlands just in time for the 10pm exit poll! It will cost me a train ticket, but "the country comes first"!
There is no exit poll.
Populus for sure, and YouGov will be doing recontacting on the day polls.
anyhoo Darth Eagles, what;s the status with Moniker ?
naughty step or Siberia ?
The mods tell me naughty step for the weekend.
well I think we all need a cooling off things were getting progressively more heated.
hows about a lighter thread or two ?
your top 3 PB moments ?
I was going to publish an AV related thread tonight, but have had to push that to either tomorrow or Sunday.
What we need is an Indyerf2 thread.
I did a few days ago. Brexit leads to Indyref2 thread
no a proper one with James Kelly and Mick Pork and the cast of wings over somerset
ah fun days
I for one do not miss *tears of laughter* and *titter* and *chortle*. I do however, miss Martin Day. If only he could have metaphorically lived to see this day.
The day after GE2015 would have been of deep joy to Martin Day on the subject of the yellow peril.
Indeed! In his honour, I give you: "Taxi for the Lib Dem party!!".
But the Lib Dems would have fifty MPs under a PR system.
British voters are deeply and evenly divided about whether to quit the European Union in next week's historic vote, according to a NBC News/SurveyMonkey U.K. poll.
The new poll has the historic vote as a toss-up: 48 percent of Britons say they'll cast a vote to "Leave" the EU in the referendum known as "Brexit," and an identical 48 percent prefer to "Remain." A mere 4 percent are undecided just a week before the June 23 vote.
I don't think post-murder polls will tell us much about its impact. It takes a few days for events to feed into voting intention. But (at risk of repeating myself) I don't think it will have much effect anyway.
If my real life conversations today are anything to go by, no effect.
Football and Brexit (as if yesterday didn't happen)
Just a couple of odd afterthought comments about the late MP. Has impacted about as much as a news report about a victim of a fatal accident on the M1
Its not as if anyone outside politics had ever heard of her until this kicked off
The BBC News website is bordering on the farcical. If Diana had died during the internet age, I don't think you would have seen much more coverage.
13 stories - including a rolling news feed and 'In Pictures' 5 videos - including of a little girl crying at the murder scene; and a Canadian MP crying
This is wall to wall broadcast coverage and Sky are saying just now that proper campaigning will not start before Tuesday. I cannot believe that over the next few days anyone will be unaware of this tragic event
You think I'm going to spend Father Day on maudlin shroud waving ?
I hope everyone who is a Father, or Grandfather like myself will have a wonderful and happy day on Sunday. Last year on Fathers day my eldest son married his Canadian fiancee in Kelowna, BC and it was the first time in 25 years my two sons, and my daughter had been with me on Fathers Day. At the end of this month he leaves New Zealand after 13 years and starts his married life in Vancouver.
Best wishes for a good day Mr G I'll be celebrating early tomorrow with my daughter in Oxfordshire and then spoiling my other half on Sunday,
here's to good weather !
I knew Fathers day was a big deal in the US, I didn't know it was over here. I should be getting more attention from my offspring. Maybe on Sunday they will try very hard not to ask me for money or lifts.
Comments
Door left open for athletes to compete as independents if they submit to international drug testing regimes and can prove themselves clean. These include pole vaulter Yelena Isembeyeva who is going for a third consecutive Gold in Rio.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/athletics/2016/06/17/russian-olympic-ban-decision-and-doping-scandal-live/
You don't ascribe any positives to Leave and revel in our misfortunes.
As a CCHQ staffer put it, IDS stood for In Deep Shit.
To be honest I had a Thornberry moment myself when my neighbour decorated his house and car with flags last week.
I expect there might be a strong impact on the referendum in Kirklees but less so elsewhere
The contempt for the working class from the right has been as vicious as anything thrown from the left. And the right have also put in place plenty of policies over the last few years that have actively hurt working class people - all cheered on by many people on this board who have suddenly discovered the working class may actually be politically useful.
You can be a metropolitan and go back to your roots .
I know a scotsman who can advise you on turnips :-)
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/put-britain-first-says-david-cameron-as-he-reveals-plan-to-cut-benefits-for-immigrants-9636286.html
Filthy neutrals and all that
Presumably one of John Major's bastards.
PB. I'll be back at some stage!
Seems fair enough that they should be allowed in TBH, the problems are with the Russian testing system which from the reports aired today is utterly corrupt.
Most likely they were scared of getting sued by people who weren't in the system that has been found at fault.
Interesting that Russian drug whilstleblowers will be allowed to compete as neutrals (if they are brave enough to attend).
I'll be such a smug bastard in the event of Brexit.
13 stories - including a rolling news feed and 'In Pictures'
5 videos - including of a little girl crying at the murder scene; and a Canadian MP crying
I see Labour have opened a book of condolence. Will there be one in every town? Was there one for Lee Rigby?
It's unseemly. The Westminster and media elite have circled the wagons.
And before that the gloating of guardianista wimmen about the 'mancession' of 2008-2009 as working class men lost their jobs in manufacturing and construction.
Or the glee of Labour when they shat on rural areas whilst in government.
Then there was the 'bigoted women' Mrs Duffy - how much sympathy did she get from metropolitan leftists ?
Who was it who said "its not enough to succeed, others must fail" ?
That's the mentality of Britain now.
I would say that the improvements in the stock market are more likely tied to some recent good news (e.g. Fed deferring the expected rate rise, ECB/BoE announcing full liquidity support in the event of Brexit) than any premonition of victory for Remain. I think it's also a triple witching day.
Neither will the general over the top hoo hah about one death among their own from people who are quite willing to send soldiers to their death on dubious neo imperialist foreign adventures and quite willing to allow the EU to insist that murderers and the like from other EU countries are able to live here.
The new poll has the historic vote as a toss-up: 48 percent of Britons say they'll cast a vote to "Leave" the EU in the referendum known as "Brexit," and an identical 48 percent prefer to "Remain." A mere 4 percent are undecided just a week before the June 23 vote.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/brexit-referendum/poll-british-voters-split-brexit-think-eu-exit-vote-will-n594086
Re SurveyMonkey... They rarely poll in the UK although their pre-GE2015 poll was the only one to show a substantial Conservative lead
The Ketchup Song by Las
Ketchup has sold more copies than Queen’s Bohemian Rhapsody, according to @popbitch... https://t.co/r0LGFIZPMp
""We have no idea, whether there was political angle to this murder yesterday. What we do know is that the man who has been arrested has a history of mental health problems."
"That is a fact. It's about the only fact that we do know."
"Now to attribute the hateful actions of one man to any political agenda at this stage speaks more about those who try to do this than they might like to admit.""
The issue is democracy. A parliament that is supreme with representatives having the power to sort things and the people having the power to boot them out if they don't
The poster knows his onions...
A few days ago I posted a link to an online poll showing an unbelievable 81% Leave vote www.pollstation.uk/eu-referendum/poll/ which is now up to c. 133,000 votes. Clearly the types of people finding and responding to that poll (I found it via a link on a broadsheet comment section) are not the average demographic that the polling agencies have so carefully constructed.
The bar graph on that page can be changed to a line graph over time by clicking the bottom right icon. Given the events of the last 24 hours, and what may be a muted tone for the remainder of the campaign, I thought it might be worth analysing how the votes on this poll have been allocated on a daily basis since the start of June.
Apart from the 9th of June, the 2000 plus votes added each day have been pretty consistently around the 80% mark for leave. The votes so far today seem in line with recent days.
Is this the master strategy REMAIN have been seeking? Will they produce posters with pictures of immigrants invading?
Out with friends for a fortifying drink last night. All early 40s, professional jobs. Balance of Yes/No voters in Indyref. All voting Remain.
Very worried about EU ref as their parents (all were indyref No voters) had already postal voted, or were planning to vote Leave and were pretty passionate about it. Affluent central Scotland middle class types.
.@pollytoynbee who described bedroom tax as "final solution" and TPA as "insidious poison" laments ugly mood http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/16/mood-ugly-mp-dead-jo-cox …
You just KNOW somebody is going to come out with "Vote to Remain - it's what Jo would have wanted...."
Remainers "not campaigning tomorrow", opening books of condolence on street stalls. Telling volunteers to leaflet. https://t.co/VdfuUExzuZ
Mr Johnson says these are “not my politics” and that Mr Farage is not part of the official Leave campaign, but the message has helped to power the Leave campaign ahead in the polls.
If Mr Cameron loses the referendum, many Tory MPs believe the prime minister would be out of Downing Street by the autumn. Mr Johnson is the favourite to succeed him, and the widely held suspicion at Westminster is that the former mayor put his own ambitions before the national interest.
Mr Johnson denies that categorically. But if he does become prime minister on the back of a Brexit vote, he will have to reconcile the open, “One Nation”, immigration-friendly country that he wants to build with the defensive, apprehensive Britain that has emerged during the campaign he has fronted.
https://next.ft.com/content/00a534ae-3492-11e6-ad39-3fee5ffe5b5b
That is the best mealy mouthed statement he could come up with...
here's to good weather !
When were they on the streets with books of condolence for our fallen soldiers (at home and abroad)?
When were they on the streets with books of condolence for policemen killed doing their duty?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsqnG-w3zIk
It was suggested that there might have been a strong crossover with purchasers of DFS furniture.
That YouTube clip is more than a bit worrying - Jimmy Savile and Jonathan King together.
What about a thread discussing ..............