Labour losing control of Wales isn't the most outlandish event.
Not least as they don't control it now (30/60 seats). But I think UKIP are going to make a serious impact in a number of places, as the referendum casts its shadow - same sort of thing as we saw in Scotland with pro-independnece voters going SNP as a natural corollary.
Labour losing control of Wales isn't the most outlandish event.
Not least as they don't control it now (30/60 seats). But I think UKIP are going to make a serious impact in a number of places, as the referendum casts its shadow - same sort of thing as we saw in Scotland with pro-independnece voters going SNP as a natural corollary.
I'm sorry Mike Smithson, as much as I love Lancashire, I am going to have to re-post my love of Italy from earlier in response to an attack on Italian cuisine (unthinkable)
I'm sorry...Italian cuisine is sublime. The simplicity. Provided you stay out of a tourist trap and keep to local trattorias, it is literally impossible to eat or drink badly in Italy.
For people who love food, wine, the weather, the landscape, the sea, mountains, the history...and the fact that Italians love the English. The hotels are great. The coffee. You can get to gigs in the summer for £20, and I mean top bands. The cakes, the grappa, the apperetivo....the fact that in summer everything comes to life. The sun, The walks. The quality of the hotels. The light...those wonderful Italian dusks and dawns. The sense of fun and happiness. And it's cheap.
Or you could go somewhere else. Why?
It's all true. Not as refined as French at its best but that's its charm. You can go anywhere and its lively fun and simple and it's uniformly good. Sometimes it feels like you've crept into a fellini film and that's when it's at its best. You're very lucky. So much better than Spain
I doubt you have seen much of Spain to say that, Roger. Like France. I'd say the further west you go in France the better it gets, though the Jura is a special place. If you don't eat and drink well in Gascony or Brittany, say, you are doing something very wrong.
Excellent seafood in Brittany, I quite agree.
France is like Britain in the Seventies, looking rather dogeared but with strong roots that are ripe for revival.
I'm sorry Mike Smithson, as much as I love Lancashire, I am going to have to re-post my love of Italy from earlier in response to an attack on Italian cuisine (unthinkable)
I'm sorry...Italian cuisine is sublime. The simplicity. Provided you stay out of a tourist trap and keep to local trattorias, it is literally impossible to eat or drink badly in Italy.
For people who love food, wine, the weather, the landscape, the sea, mountains, the history...and the fact that Italians love the English. The hotels are great. The coffee. You can get to gigs in the summer for £20, and I mean top bands. The cakes, the grappa, the apperetivo....the fact that in summer everything comes to life. The sun, The walks. The quality of the hotels. The light...those wonderful Italian dusks and dawns. The sense of fun and happiness. And it's cheap.
Or you could go somewhere else. Why?
It's all true. Not as refined as French at its best but that's its charm. You can go anywhere and its lively fun and simple and it's uniformly good. Sometimes it feels like you've crept into a fellini film and that's when it's at its best. You're very lucky. So much better than Spain
I doubt you have seen much of Spain to say that, Roger. Like France. I'd say the further west you go in France the better it gets, though the Jura is a special place. If you don't eat and drink well in Gascony or Brittany, say, you are doing something very wrong.
Excellent seafood in Brittany, I quite agree.
France is like Britain in the Seventies, looking rather dogeared but with strong roots that are ripe for revival.
Yes, it's a sad place right now. Kind of defeated. But France is too great a country not to bounce back.
But they don't eat like that. Most Italians will have a starter then the pasta, or a starter then the meat/fish. Or just the pasta. You're allowed to pick and choose and that is exactly what they do,
That's true (in fact they often ignore the menu altogether, and negotiate with the waiter to produce something different).
But my point still stands. The French conceive the meal as a whole. The Italians don't.
SNP will get their majority on constituency seats alone! LD will get Orkney and Shetland, we (CON) will get two or three, LAB will get 0 so SNP get about 68
CON will come through on the list, we will be second; LAB third; GRN fourth
< understatement > Maybe their being front page news for the past 10 days talking about Hitler and Israel, Jews and Muslims, won't be seen with the benefit of hindsight as the greatest couple of weeks in Labour Party history... < / understatement >
Sorry to be brusque but you have to compare with 2012.
Nope. Comparative point in the last election cycle is 2011.
Hasn't this point been discussed to death on here? 2012 is correct in terms of seats being fought, 2011 is in terms of "number of years since a GE" which I don't think is as compelling.
SNP will get their majority on constituency seats alone! LD will get Orkney and Shetland, we (CON) will get two or three, LAB will get 0 so SNP get about 68
CON will come through on the list, we will be second; LAB third; GRN fourth
SNP will get virtually nothing on the list
Surely SNP will get list seats in the south if CON are on 2/3.
Now hang on, I see people are judging French food by experiences in Dieppe or Normandy.
Err, no.
Normandy isn't in France? I know it shouldn't be but I am fairly sure it is.
As I said in my first post I can only judge but what I have experienced and that is Normandy and the old battlefields and the food in the standard eateries is, in the main, poor. I can get better and for a similar price at anyone of half a dozen pubs within a few miles of my home.
Remember Laura said "Grim night for Lab" on BBC1 10pm.
BBC is normally very, very, very cautious - eg Marr in 2005 said GE was very uncertain, nobody sure what was happening in marginals etc.
Laura comment is strong pointer.
Well BBC are pro-Labour - everyone knows that - but Corbyn put his foot in it with his "no seats lost" (I know it worked pretty well for the Tories last year - but still...) so there is absolutely no chance of damage limitation or spinning that the results aren't quite as bad as feared.
Now hang on, I see people are judging French food by experiences in Dieppe or Normandy.
Err, no.
Normandy isn't in France? I know it shouldn't be but I am fairly sure it is.
As I said in my first post I can only judge but what I have experienced and that is Normandy and the old battlefields and the food in the standard eateries is, in the main, poor. I can get better and for a similar price at anyone of half a dozen pubs within a few miles of my home.
Sure, Normandy is in France, just as Sunderland is in England. (To be fair to the Normands, the food isn't that bad).
Possibly - but aren't we at the same point in the electoral cycle as 2011?
The 2012 Lab to Con swing is bigger - closer to 8%.
Most local councils work on a 4 year cycle, so the councillors up for election tonight were last elected in 2012 - at the high point of Ed in the last Parliament.
Yes, there's a truth in that. In some respects France has just been naturally overtaken by competitors, who learned from her pioneering supremacy, then applied her techniques with greater innovation or resources.
The same happened to the English/British with all the sports we invented. People copied us at football, then, thanks to sheer weight of numbers, we eventually got outstripped - there were bound to be countries which could beat us at football.
Yet the food in France, if I'm not mistaken, is a different case. It isn't just in relative decline (as is the case with the wine) - it's in absolute decline, actively getting a lot worse. Very odd. And rather sad.
I have always found you can eat very well in most French towns with a higher quality of food at a reasonable price than most British cafes, though at the top Michelin starred end the French supremacy may be over. Generally they are friendly, especially if you at least attempt to speak the language. Italy is a great country too but France has Paris, the Mediterrenean climate in the south and lots of history and is the most visited country in the world for a reason
It's simply not true any more, tho. Most French bistros now serve reheated frozen food.
I take no pleasure in this. I used to love going to France and anticipating the food. After this trip, which cements in place an uneasy impression that I'd already formed, I will never do that again. Sad.
It depends what you order too, the seafood in France tends to be excellent and the gesiers salads are always wonderful and I order them whenever they are on the menu
Agree with you on the salade de gesier. But Sean is right - French bistro food has declined massively since I lived in France in the 90s. I was in Lille this last week, bought several sandwiches made with either ficelle or baguette and on each occasion the bread was no better than you'd get at a Pret a manger in the UK or US. What happened to the baguette? It's all now pre-made, take out of the freezer and cook stuff.
SNP will get their majority on constituency seats alone! LD will get Orkney and Shetland, we (CON) will get two or three, LAB will get 0 so SNP get about 68
CON will come through on the list, we will be second; LAB third; GRN fourth
SNP will get virtually nothing on the list
Surely SNP will get list seats in the south if CON are on 2/3.
When does justin124 come along and tell us this is still all good for labour?
Actually the worse it is for Labour tonight, the better it is for Labour in the long term.
Some might say for the country as a whole as a useless opposition is bad for everybody, but justin124 likes to inform.us we are all ignorant about the state of play at this point in the cycle.
Sorry to be brusque but you have to compare with 2012.
Nope. Comparative point in the last election cycle is 2011.
You're just wrong. And being very partisan.
Every news outlet will be comparing with 2012.
"Every news outlet" also predicted a hung parliament last year.
On early signs, Labour are going to fare poorly even compared to 2011. However, that doesn't change the fact that it's a statement of the obvious that the only relevant comparisons are the corresponding points in the electoral cycle. Your argument is like saying you compare the state of the Premier League table in the August of a new season compared to the December of the previous season.
Tory on Tory in London. Party's GLA leader has attacked the Goldsmith campaign in very strong terms. This is what the Stupid party will focus on, ignoring the carnage everywhere else.
Remember Laura said "Grim night for Lab" on BBC1 10pm.
BBC is normally very, very, very cautious - eg Marr in 2005 said GE was very uncertain, nobody sure what was happening in marginals etc.
Laura comment is strong pointer.
Well BBC are pro-Labour - everyone knows that - but Corbyn put his foot in it with his "no seats lost" (I know it worked pretty well for the Tories last year - but still...) so there is absolutely no chance of damage limitation or spinning that the results aren't quite as bad as feared.
Laura K is also fab - something we on PB spotted many moons before the Beeb and where she had to move to ITV to get on....
(That's to say, I think there are two truly great world centres of food. One is in Europe, the other South-east Asia. There's lots of brilliant food from elsewhere but those are the places, above all, where humans have really understood how to cook. For my money the pinnacle in Europe is Italy.)
With my heritage, I can't leave that unchallenged!
Middle eastern, and especially Persian, cuisine is superb. Buy this book:
As regards France vs Italy, the problem with Italian cuisine is that the meals as a whole are badly conceived. Superb dishes, yes, let down by a lack of coherent structure of the meal as a whole (whoever thought bunging pasta in between the hors d'oeuvre and the meat or fish course was a good idea?)
Middle eastern food can be fantastic. Actually, if I had to eat one region's cuisine forever I think that would be it. I've never been to Iran, though, so I probably haven't had the best Persian cooking. I've ordered Ms Shaida's book though. Thanks for the recommendation.
Turnout % in Sunderland elections: Sandhill 28.6, Washington C 33.8 Washington N 29.5 Castle 26, Redhill 25.6, St Anne's 24.3 Hendon 27.9 11:33 PM - 5 May 2016 · North East, England, United Kingdom
Sorry to be brusque but you have to compare with 2012.
Nope. Comparative point in the last election cycle is 2011.
You're just wrong. And being very partisan.
Every news outlet will be comparing with 2012.
"Every news outlet" also predicted a hung parliament last year.
On early signs, Labour are going to fare poorly even compared to 2011. However, that doesn't change the fact that it's a statement of the obvious that the only relevant comparisons are the corresponding points in the electoral cycle. Your argument is like saying you compare the state of the Premier League table in the August of a new season compared to the December of the previous season.
Just because they called it wrong, doesn't make their comparison incorrect.
It would actually be comparing a one third of the premier league to another third. Some areas that voted in 2011 wont be voting in today, and vice versa.
Turnout % in Sunderland elections: Sandhill 28.6, Washington C 33.8 Washington N 29.5 Castle 26, Redhill 25.6, St Anne's 24.3 Hendon 27.9 11:33 PM - 5 May 2016 · North East, England, United Kingdom
Retweets
I think we can expect low turnouts in most of todays elections.
When does justin124 come along and tell us this is still all good for labour?
Actually the worse it is for Labour tonight, the better it is for Labour in the long term.
Some might say for the country as a whole as a useless opposition is bad for everybody, but justin124 likes to inform.us we are all ignorant about the state of play at this point in the cycle.
Yes - but tonight could mark the start of Labour returning to some sense of normality...I wouldn't count on it though
(That's to say, I think there are two truly great world centres of food. One is in Europe, the other South-east Asia. There's lots of brilliant food from elsewhere but those are the places, above all, where humans have really understood how to cook. For my money the pinnacle in Europe is Italy.)
With my heritage, I can't leave that unchallenged!
Middle eastern, and especially Persian, cuisine is superb. Buy this book:
As regards France vs Italy, the problem with Italian cuisine is that the meals as a whole are badly conceived. Superb dishes, yes, let down by a lack of coherent structure of the meal as a whole (whoever thought bunging pasta in between the hors d'oeuvre and the meat or fish course was a good idea?)
Middle eastern food can be fantastic. Actually, if I had to eat one region's cuisine forever I think that would be it. I've never been to Iran, though, so I probably haven't had the best Persian cooking. I've ordered Ms Shaida's book though. Thanks for the recommendation.
Have to say, my favorite cuisines are what I call either Middle Eastern or Ottoman, and Italian. For their freshness and, on occasion, lightness. While it varies from Morocco, through the Levant, Turkey and Greece, mediterranean or Middle Eastern food has a common approach and flavour set I love. Bring on the allspice.
When does justin124 come along and tell us this is still all good for labour?
Actually the worse it is for Labour tonight, the better it is for Labour in the long term.
Some might say for the country as a whole as a useless opposition is bad for everybody, but justin124 likes to inform.us we are all ignorant about the state of play at this point in the cycle.
Yes - but tonight could mark the start of Labour returning to some sense of normality...I wouldn't count on it though
Don't forget it is all false consciousness if Labour vote is poor.
(That's to say, I think there are two truly great world centres of food. One is in Europe, the other South-east Asia. There's lots of brilliant food from elsewhere but those are the places, above all, where humans have really understood how to cook. For my money the pinnacle in Europe is Italy.)
With my heritage, I can't leave that unchallenged!
Middle eastern, and especially Persian, cuisine is superb. Buy this book:
As regards France vs Italy, the problem with Italian cuisine is that the meals as a whole are badly conceived. Superb dishes, yes, let down by a lack of coherent structure of the meal as a whole (whoever thought bunging pasta in between the hors d'oeuvre and the meat or fish course was a good idea?)
Middle eastern food can be fantastic. Actually, if I had to eat one region's cuisine forever I think that would be it. I've never been to Iran, though, so I probably haven't had the best Persian cooking. I've ordered Ms Shaida's book though. Thanks for the recommendation.
Great, hope you enjoy it. It's an interesting read because it goes into the history and culture behind the recipes. Mrs Shaida was an English girl who married a friend of my father's and lived in Teheran for a very long time. It's the best book I've come across on the subject.
Sorry to be brusque but you have to compare with 2012.
Nope. Comparative point in the last election cycle is 2011.
You're just wrong. And being very partisan.
Every news outlet will be comparing with 2012.
"Every news outlet" also predicted a hung parliament last year.
On early signs, Labour are going to fare poorly even compared to 2011. However, that doesn't change the fact that it's a statement of the obvious that the only relevant comparisons are the corresponding points in the electoral cycle. Your argument is like saying you compare the state of the Premier League table in the August of a new season compared to the December of the previous season.
Just because they called it wrong, doesn't make their comparison incorrect.
It would actually be comparing a one third of the premier league to another third. Some areas that voted in 2011 wont be voting in 2012, and vice versa.
But the point is it would be like saying "Man City only had 20 points on the table in October 2014, that means they are doing worse than they were in December 2013 when they had 30 points".
Well yes, technically it would be true that they were doing worse in October 2014 than in December 2013 -- because they were completely different points in the cycle, where it's fundamentally more difficult to have amassed the kind of tally you would later on. While it's technically true, it's not a useful or relevant comparison to make.
The only like-for-like comparisons would be October to October, December to December, etc. - just like you can only compare the first year of one electoral cycle to the first year of another electoral cycle (i.e. 2011 and 2016) -- on which measure, it looks like Labour will also perform poorly anyway
Sorry to be brusque but you have to compare with 2012.
Nope. Comparative point in the last election cycle is 2011.
You're just wrong. And being very partisan.
Every news outlet will be comparing with 2012.
"Every news outlet" also predicted a hung parliament last year.
On early signs, Labour are going to fare poorly even compared to 2011. However, that doesn't change the fact that it's a statement of the obvious that the only relevant comparisons are the corresponding points in the electoral cycle. Your argument is like saying you compare the state of the Premier League table in the August of a new season compared to the December of the previous season.
Just because they called it wrong, doesn't make their comparison incorrect.
It would actually be comparing a one third of the premier league to another third. Some areas that voted in 2011 wont be voting in 2012, and vice versa.
But the point is it would be like saying "Man City only had 20 points on the table in October 2014, that means they are doing worse than they are in December 2013 when they had 30 points".
Well yes, technically it would be true that they were doing worse in October 2014 than in December 2013 -- because they were completely different points in the cycle, where it's fundamentally more difficult to have amassed the kind of tally you would later on.
False equivalency Danny. Your comments are usually better than that.
Your comparisons are akin to suggesting that we should compare results in different competitions, e.g. FA Cup and Premier League.
I'm guessing from our previous conversations that Danny and I do not vote the same way, but Corbyn is at the same point now that Miliband was in 2011.
By all means consider 2012 as the base for one assessment, but 2011 remains perfectly reasonable as a base for another - Milband v Corbyn twelve months after a GE.
On these very early results and reports it looks like the Conservatives will lead Labour by about 5% nationally.
The only time an opposition party has been further behind in a non general election year would be 1982 - the year of the Falklands War and after the SDP breakaway.
Sorry to be brusque but you have to compare with 2012.
Nope. Comparative point in the last election cycle is 2011.
You're just wrong. And being very partisan.
Every news outlet will be comparing with 2012.
"Every news outlet" also predicted a hung parliament last year.
On early signs, Labour are going to fare poorly even compared to 2011. However, that doesn't change the fact that it's a statement of the obvious that the only relevant comparisons are the corresponding points in the electoral cycle. Your argument is like saying you compare the state of the Premier League table in the August of a new season compared to the December of the previous season.
Just because they called it wrong, doesn't make their comparison incorrect.
It would actually be comparing a one third of the premier league to another third. Some areas that voted in 2011 wont be voting in 2012, and vice versa.
But the point is it would be like saying "Man City only had 20 points on the table in October 2014, that means they are doing worse than they are in December 2013 when they had 30 points".
Well yes, technically it would be true that they were doing worse in October 2014 than in December 2013 -- because they were completely different points in the cycle, where it's fundamentally more difficult to have amassed the kind of tally you would later on.
False equivalency Danny. Your comments are usually better than that.
Your comparisons are akin to suggesting that we should compare results in different competitions, e.g. FA Cup and Premier League.
I don't see how it's like that, because local councils were elected in 2011 just as they are elected in 2016. In those places were there were elections in both years, it is surely self-evident that comparing changes between those two points is the like-for-like comparison.
Sorry to be brusque but you have to compare with 2012.
Nope. Comparative point in the last election cycle is 2011.
You're just wrong. And being very partisan.
Every news outlet will be comparing with 2012.
"Every news outlet" also predicted a hung parliament last year.
On early signs, Labour are going to fare poorly even compared to 2011. However, that doesn't change the fact that it's a statement of the obvious that the only relevant comparisons are the corresponding points in the electoral cycle. Your argument is like saying you compare the state of the Premier League table in the August of a new season compared to the December of the previous season.
Just because they called it wrong, doesn't make their comparison incorrect.
It would actually be comparing a one third of the premier league to another third. Some areas that voted in 2011 wont be voting in 2012, and vice versa.
But the point is it would be like saying "Man City only had 20 points on the table in October 2014, that means they are doing worse than they were in December 2013 when they had 30 points".
Well yes, technically it would be true that they were doing worse in October 2014 than in December 2013 -- because they were completely different points in the cycle, where it's fundamentally more difficult to have amassed the kind of tally you would later on. While it's technically true, it's not a useful or relevant comparison to make.
The only like-for-like comparisons would be October to October, December to December, etc. - just like you can only compare the first year of one electoral cycle to the first year of another electoral cycle (i.e. 2011 and 2016) -- on which measure, it looks like Labour will also perform poorly anyway
Your argument is based on the premise that the "cycle" is defined by the general elections. The 2012 elections were probably more influenced by the ominshambles budget, rather than the fact it was a year from the previous election.
How are you even going to make comparisons in wards where no election took place in 2011?
Also, the premier league is probably a bad comparison, since it is "reset" every year. Elections aren't like that at all.
As a Labour Member this is like watching West Ham under Glenn roeder or avram grant. You end up wanting to lose as badly as possible so they get fired. Unfortunately we don't appear to have slaven bilic (or even sam allardyce) waiting in the wings.
Sorry to be brusque but you have to compare with 2012.
Nope. Comparative point in the last election cycle is 2011.
You're just wrong. And being very partisan.
Every news outlet will be comparing with 2012.
"Every news outlet" also predicted a hung parliament last year.
On early signs, Labour are going to fare poorly even compared to 2011. However, that doesn't change the fact that it's a statement of the obvious that the only relevant comparisons are the corresponding points in the electoral cycle. Your argument is like saying you compare the state of the Premier League table in the August of a new season compared to the December of the previous season.
Just because they called it wrong, doesn't make their comparison incorrect.
It would actually be comparing a one third of the premier league to another third. Some areas that voted in 2011 wont be voting in today, and vice versa.
It's a double comparison. You work out the base metric with reference to the last point the seats were contested ie 2012. This gives you something like "Opposition party down 300" which you can then compare with opposition parties' performances a year after a General Election.
I'm sorry Mike Smithson, as much as I love Lancashire, I am going to have to re-post my love of Italy from earlier in response to an attack on Italian cuisine (unthinkable)
I'm sorry...Italian cuisine is sublime. The simplicity. Provided you stay out of a tourist trap and keep to local trattorias, it is literally impossible to eat or drink badly in Italy.
And it's cheap.
Or you could go somewhere else. Why?
It's all true. Not as refined as French at its best but that's its charm. You can go anywhere and its lively fun and simple and it's uniformly good. Sometimes it feels like you've crept into a fellini film and that's when it's at its best. You're very lucky. So much better than Spain
I doubt you have seen much of Spain to say that, Roger. Like France. I'd say the further west you go in France the better it gets, though the Jura is a special place. If you don't eat and drink well in Gascony or Brittany, say, you are doing something very wrong.
Excellent seafood in Brittany, I quite agree.
France is like Britain in the Seventies, looking rather dogeared but with strong roots that are ripe for revival.
Yes, it's a sad place right now. Kind of defeated. But France is too great a country not to bounce back.
The potential of France is still enormous. If she ever gets her act together...
That said the French language is now a major problem for France and I'm not sure how it is solved. They are trapped in a Francophone bubble with little understanding of the world beyond.
We forget how simply speaking English gives us instant and powerful access to the most dynamic ideas, memes, culture, concepts. As English speakers we are constantly challenged by the new, whether it is from America or India, Singapore or Hong Kong, Oz or South Africa or London or New York (the two paramount world cities). It's not always for the best, but it always keeps up on our mettle.
The Francophonie is a stagnant intellectual backwater in comparison. And belatedly this is now showing up in the food, which has retreated into some weird cul de sac of YUK.
Hong Kong is full of young French people these days, all speaking good English. I think the younger generation there is much less Francophone than their elders. They seem much more outward-looking.
Comments
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9xWYApbd6Y
Lab 71.4 (1371 votes)
Con 28.6 (548 votes)
Turnout 24.3%
In 2011
Lab 71.4 ( 1908 votes)
Con 16.3% ( 436 votes)
Grn 8.9% (238 votes)
LD 3.4% (90 votes)
Swing: Lab to Con 6.15%
Err, no.
Now now. Mind you I thought W Ass was somewhere in Sussex - it"s been a long day.
http://election-data.co.uk/election-data-live
I didn't bother voting in the end...
France is like Britain in the Seventies, looking rather dogeared but with strong roots that are ripe for revival.
The 2012 Lab to Con swing is bigger - closer to 8%.
But my point still stands. The French conceive the meal as a whole. The Italians don't.
I see five men, not one of which has his thumbs in his lapels or braces as befitted many a politico of the time...this makes it highly suspicious....
BBC is normally very, very, very cautious - eg Marr in 2005 said GE was very uncertain, nobody sure what was happening in marginals etc.
Laura comment is strong pointer.
Friends who were manning polling stations have reported sub 20% turnout in parts of Oxford
SNP have won!
SNP will get their majority on constituency seats alone! LD will get Orkney and Shetland, we (CON)
CON will come through on the list, we will be second; LAB third; GRN fourth
SNP will get virtually nothing on the list
As I said in my first post I can only judge but what I have experienced and that is Normandy and the old battlefields and the food in the standard eateries is, in the main, poor. I can get better and for a similar price at anyone of half a dozen pubs within a few miles of my home.
Every news outlet will be comparing with 2012.
Anyone who has ever been there would be flabbergasted that it is anything other than Labour.
On early signs, Labour are going to fare poorly even compared to 2011. However, that doesn't change the fact that it's a statement of the obvious that the only relevant comparisons are the corresponding points in the electoral cycle. Your argument is like saying you compare the state of the Premier League table in the August of a new season compared to the December of the previous season.
Turnout % in Sunderland elections: Sandhill 28.6, Washington C 33.8 Washington N 29.5 Castle 26, Redhill 25.6, St Anne's 24.3 Hendon 27.9
11:33 PM - 5 May 2016 · North East, England, United Kingdom
Retweets
It would actually be comparing a one third of the premier league to another third. Some areas that voted in 2011 wont be voting in today, and vice versa.
Report Labour vote down 12% in Sunderland.
Well yes, technically it would be true that they were doing worse in October 2014 than in December 2013 -- because they were completely different points in the cycle, where it's fundamentally more difficult to have amassed the kind of tally you would later on. While it's technically true, it's not a useful or relevant comparison to make.
The only like-for-like comparisons would be October to October, December to December, etc. - just like you can only compare the first year of one electoral cycle to the first year of another electoral cycle (i.e. 2011 and 2016) -- on which measure, it looks like Labour will also perform poorly anyway
Even in the very disappointing debut 1999 elections they got 37%
Your comparisons are akin to suggesting that we should compare results in different competitions, e.g. FA Cup and Premier League.
Tempting..
By all means consider 2012 as the base for one assessment, but 2011 remains perfectly reasonable as a base for another - Milband v Corbyn twelve months after a GE.
The only time an opposition party has been further behind in a non general election year would be 1982 - the year of the Falklands War and after the SDP breakaway.
Political Editor of Glasgow paper
" there's no surge to the Tories it's only happening because Labour are doing so badly"
Glad we got that cleared up......
How are you even going to make comparisons in wards where no election took place in 2011?
Also, the premier league is probably a bad comparison, since it is "reset" every year. Elections aren't like that at all.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/728355701626638336
It's got nothing on the tune they used in the 80s.