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Biden withdraws from the 2024 White House race – politicalbetting.com

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  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,614
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The people who did everything they could to keep Biden in the race beyond the time it was sensible to do so should feel ashamed of themselves.

    I would just caution that in my experience of dementia it is not as simple as telling someone with the condition to change course

    There can be anger and dismay, even denial from the patient, and key is the actions of the family and those family members closest which I hope in this case proves to be Jill Biden who without doubt would have had a difficult and highly emotional task
    It was hardly kind to put him through the last few months, let alone to run the risk of putting him through the remainder of the campaign up to polling day. And that's just considering the effect on Biden himself. There is quite a lot at stake in this election.
    Again you do not know just how stubborn Biden himself was
    You seem to think you're the only person here with experience of dementia. Absurd.
    Of course I don't but I have seen my father in law die in our home with our family holding his hands and him not knowing any of us, a neighbour who should not be driving become violent towards her son when he took her car keys away, and another long standing widow and friend deny all access to her home for days hiding away frightened and in denial

    I have many other examples but when you are 80+ and your wife is 84 dementia is something you become very aware of
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,276
    Andy_JS said:

    Can anyone clear up a strange comment Kamala Harris made a couple of days ago? She said "I've never been to Europe" but she definitely has been to Europe on several trips as vice president. So why did she say that? Maybe it was some sort of joke that isn't immediately apparent.

    https://nypost.com/2021/06/08/kamala-harris-dismisses-criticism-for-not-visiting-us-border/

    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/09/politics/kamala-harris-poland-romania/index.html
    https://www.npr.org/2024/02/15/1231464219/kamala-harris-munich-nato-trump

    I think she was just referring to that specific period. As in, “I haven’t been to lots of places, not just the border.”
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,103
    carnforth said:

    WillG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Speaker of House Mike Johnson: "Biden must resign immediately". BBC News.

    Biden should stay in office just to draw fire on this.
    Staying in office would implicitly signal that Harris isn’t up to the job.
    Also, if the country is used to "President Harris", they might be more likely to vote for her.

    Plus, Biden gets to make a woman president.
    Alternatively, going through the traditional party nomination & election process will be better than handing over the Presidency with a letter.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,616
    boulay said:

    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    Heathener said:

    This is the best election ever

    One candidate has been shot and the other has pulled out before it's even started

    There's surely huge intrigue and interest to come

    The Dem nomination for starters..

    Imagine, for a moment, if neither Trump nor Biden had made it to the vote. We were within six inches.

    Just a reminder too that Trump is no spring chicken. Trump will be older than Biden is now by the end of term in January 2029

    If the Dems are sensible they might well show up his age to their advantage.

    But are they sensible?
    Six millimeters more like

    You're forgetting the six inches of solid bone between his ear and his brain.
    Trump wishes he had six inches of solid bone.
    Can I make a Rod Liddle joke?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Useless fact: at Trent Bridge yesterday I saw a group of about 5 men wearing bandages on their right ear.

    Make of that what you will.

    Were they standing at twat mid off?
    Another example of the local police not doing their job.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,175
    nico679 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Whisper it: I don't think Kamala is that good at debates. And it's far from certain she would beat trump in one.

    She won’t just stand there like a pinata taking hit after hit . She was perfectly fine in 2020 against Pence .
    And she’s had four years of crap being thrown at her to toughen up.
    It will be very interesting to see if she can step up.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    edited July 21
    Trump spectacularly misses an opportunity to pitch for the independents:

    Donald Trump had this to say about Joe Biden’s decision to exit the race, as posted on Truth Social:

    "Crooked Joe Biden was not fit to run for President, and is certainly not fit to serve - And never was! He only attained the position of President by lies, Fake News, and not leaving his Basement. All those around him, including his Doctor and the Media, knew that he wasn’t capable of being President, and he wasn’t - And now, look what he’s done to our Country, with millions of people coming across our Border, totally unchecked and unvetted, many from prisons, mental institutions, and record numbers of terrorists. We will suffer greatly because of his presidency, but we will remedy the damage he has done very quickly. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!"


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/jul/21/biden-drops-out-presidential-election
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    Andy_JS said:

    Can anyone clear up a strange comment Kamala Harris made a couple of days ago? She said "I've never been to Europe" but she definitely has been to Europe on several trips as vice president. So why did she say that? Maybe it was some sort of joke that isn't immediately apparent.

    https://nypost.com/2021/06/08/kamala-harris-dismisses-criticism-for-not-visiting-us-border/

    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/09/politics/kamala-harris-poland-romania/index.html
    https://www.npr.org/2024/02/15/1231464219/kamala-harris-munich-nato-trump

    She's probably an American Theresa May/Sunak hybrid candidate.

    Trump probably wins.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,276
    Striking that no other big names seem to have said anything in support of Harris yet.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    They have to support whomever they chose up to the hilt. It must be a united front against Trump.

    Not often I agree with you. But 100% this.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,175

    The absolute banter outcome now is for the Dems to run on Trump’s age and mental capacity to do the job.

    https://x.com/keiranpedley/status/1815089099050799595

    He is now the oldest nominee in US history.

    The geriatric buffoon.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,616
    Nunu5 said:

    Whisper it: I don't think Kamala is that good at debates. And it's far from certain she would beat trump in one.

    She's not.

    However, she is compis mentis.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,778

    HYUFD said:

    Kamala surely odds on to win the election now.

    Not at all, Trump currently leads Harris by 5%, 44% to 38.5% on average with Kennedy on 10.5%, Stein on 2% and West on 1.5%.

    If repeated in November that would be the lowest Democratic voteshare in a general election since McGovern's 37.5% in 1972 when Nixon crushed him by a landslide. Trump would win the popular vote and the biggest GOP victory margin since Bush 41 over Dukakis in 1988
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2024/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_harris_vs_kennedy_vs_stein_vs_west-8510.html
    The latest 538 polls had Harris polling better than Biden in some polls, with others showing the opposite.

    "Currently" means nothing. Every poll is outdated now. Hypothetical polls are different to real ones.

    What can be reasonably predicted now is that:
    1. Approval of Biden will recover to a degree now, just as the approval ratings of every retiring president improve in their final couple of months after November, provided that they conduct themselves with grace.
    2. Harris's polling will improve by virtue of:
    - her new status as Biden's nominated heir
    - the fact that her candidacy in a hypothetical poll would no longer imply a disloyal challenge to a president running for a second term
    - the newfound unity amongst Democrats, for I doubt if she will face any serious challenge
    - potentially a strong VP pick to join Harris on the ticket
    I reckon these hypothetical polls are likely to be even more misleading than hypothetical polls in general.

    I think as presumptive nominee, Biden would get the full benefit of anti-Trump sentiment, in a way that hypothetical alternatives wouldn't. Let's see some polls where it's a definite choice between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,556
    rcs1000 said:

    boulay said:

    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    Heathener said:

    This is the best election ever

    One candidate has been shot and the other has pulled out before it's even started

    There's surely huge intrigue and interest to come

    The Dem nomination for starters..

    Imagine, for a moment, if neither Trump nor Biden had made it to the vote. We were within six inches.

    Just a reminder too that Trump is no spring chicken. Trump will be older than Biden is now by the end of term in January 2029

    If the Dems are sensible they might well show up his age to their advantage.

    But are they sensible?
    Six millimeters more like

    You're forgetting the six inches of solid bone between his ear and his brain.
    Trump wishes he had six inches of solid bone.
    Can I make a Rod Liddle joke?
    Only fair considering I had made a liddle rod joke.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 976
    Andy_JS said:

    Full quote from Johnson.

    https://x.com/SpeakerJohnson/status/1815093011669516433

    "Speaker Mike Johnson
    @SpeakerJohnson

    At this unprecedented juncture in American history, we must be clear about what just happened. The Democrat Party forced the Democrat nominee off the ballot, just over 100 days before the election.

    Having invalidated the votes of more than 14 million Americans who selected Joe Biden to be the Democrat nominee for president, the self-proclaimed ‘party of democracy’ has proven exactly the opposite.

    The party’s prospects are no better now with Vice President Kamala Harris, who co-owns the disastrous policy failures of the Biden Administration. As second in command and a completely inept border czar, Harris has been a gleeful accomplice — not only in the destruction of American sovereignty, security, and prosperity, but also in the largest political coverup in U.S. history. She has known for as long as anyone of his incapacity to serve.

    Regardless of the chaos in the current White House, our adversaries around the globe should be reminded that the U.S. Congress, the U.S. military, and the American people are fully prepared and committed to defend our interests both at home and abroad.

    If Joe Biden is not fit to run for President, he is not fit to serve as President. He must resign the office immediately. November 5 cannot arrive soon enough."

    He just risks looking like a meanie
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,876

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    No stepping down from POTUS, no endorsement of Harris. "Over to you Pelosi you sort this shitshow out "

    “I will speak to the nation later this week.”

    The VP market is very interesting.
    Is Shapiro really a shoe in ?
    The failure to endorse Harris shows that Pelosi has got her way on a contested convention, so that's moot.
    He's endorsed Harris now. I just don't see how anyone else gets a look in at this point.
    Trump gets a look in if that is the case certainly, in fact he is odds on to return to the White House against Harris
    Have you considered the Women's vote, have you considered Kamala 's ethnicity and that Trump is going to appear utterly bonkers when debating Kamala.There might also be a sympathy vote for the Dems in respect of Biden's capitulation. Don't forget "Crooked Joe" ( and only Trump believes he is crooked) has gone for the good of country and party, and although Trump now believes he is probably Jesus having survived an assassination attempt, he is not.

    You may be right of course, but I don't believe you have considered anything other than hypothetical polling and made some bizarre extrapolation from Nixon/ McGovern.
    Women even voted for Hillary, polls show Harris less popular with blacks than Obama was. She has no connection with those white working class rustbelt males who voted for Trump in 2016 and switched to Biden in 2020, the likes of Buttigieg would have more connection with Independents and suburban white graduates than she does too
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903
    rcs1000 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Whisper it: I don't think Kamala is that good at debates. And it's far from certain she would beat trump in one.

    She's not.

    However, she is compis mentis.
    She'll clobber Trump.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,616
    WillG said:

    Josh Shapiro, Andy Beshear and Pete Buttigieg would have to be the best VP picks.

    I would add Ossoff to the list.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    WillG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Speaker of House Mike Johnson: "Biden must resign immediately". BBC News.

    Biden should stay in office just to draw fire on this.
    Staying in office would implicitly signal that Harris isn’t up to the job.
    No it doesn't.

    He could argue he is fine to continue now, but another four years at his ( or Trump's age ) is a stretch.
    Which is valid, and avoids a potential admission to the opposition accusation that Biden is unfit now and that has been covered up, but there's not really a way to avoid the attack line that his staying in part is to avoid her taking over as she is not up to it.

    I don't think that's true, but bear in mind that the 2-3% of voters who will decide the election whose minds are not made up are explicitly those already unclear on who they prefer between Biden and Trump, so are precisely the kind of people who are at least potentially receptive of that attack.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,778

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The people who did everything they could to keep Biden in the race beyond the time it was sensible to do so should feel ashamed of themselves.

    I would just caution that in my experience of dementia it is not as simple as telling someone with the condition to change course

    There can be anger and dismay, even denial from the patient, and key is the actions of the family and those family members closest which I hope in this case proves to be Jill Biden who without doubt would have had a difficult and highly emotional task
    It was hardly kind to put him through the last few months, let alone to run the risk of putting him through the remainder of the campaign up to polling day. And that's just considering the effect on Biden himself. There is quite a lot at stake in this election.
    Again you do not know just how stubborn Biden himself was
    You seem to think you're the only person here with experience of dementia. Absurd.
    Of course I don't but I have seen my father in law die in our home with our family holding his hands and him not knowing any of us, a neighbour who should not be driving become violent towards her son when he took her car keys away, and another long standing widow and friend deny all access to her home for days hiding away frightened and in denial

    I have many other examples but when you are 80+ and your wife is 84 dementia is something you become very aware of
    Please just don't say to other people "you do not know ..." Most of us do.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,755
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Speaker of House Mike Johnson: "Biden must resign immediately". BBC News.

    Predictably, remains a graceless twat.
    I hate that guy too. But he’s perfectly correct of course.

    The US President doesn’t just ratify the legislature’s bills or act as the symbol of the nation. They are Commander in Chief of the world’s supreme military.

    Seems pretty obvious to me that a large part of the world’s instability can be blamed on his weakness in that third role (actual and perceived by enemies).

    Also, if Kamala is to be the candidate, her best shot of winning is to get the credibility bump from 10 weeks standing in front of the presidential seal. This soft endorsement favours almost no one but DJT.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Striking that no other big names seem to have said anything in support of Harris yet.

    Shapiro might be the first...
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954
    Andy_JS said:

    Full quote from Johnson.

    https://x.com/SpeakerJohnson/status/1815093011669516433

    "Speaker Mike Johnson
    @SpeakerJohnson

    At this unprecedented juncture in American history, we must be clear about what just happened. The Democrat Party forced the Democrat nominee off the ballot, just over 100 days before the election.

    Having invalidated the votes of more than 14 million Americans who selected Joe Biden to be the Democrat nominee for president, the self-proclaimed ‘party of democracy’ has proven exactly the opposite.

    The party’s prospects are no better now with Vice President Kamala Harris, who co-owns the disastrous policy failures of the Biden Administration. As second in command and a completely inept border czar, Harris has been a gleeful accomplice — not only in the destruction of American sovereignty, security, and prosperity, but also in the largest political coverup in U.S. history. She has known for as long as anyone of his incapacity to serve.

    Regardless of the chaos in the current White House, our adversaries around the globe should be reminded that the U.S. Congress, the U.S. military, and the American people are fully prepared and committed to defend our interests both at home and abroad.

    If Joe Biden is not fit to run for President, he is not fit to serve as President. He must resign the office immediately. November 5 cannot arrive soon enough."

    The GOP are so butthurt.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,023
    Kamala v Trump.

    Not a great choice
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,103
    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Useless fact: at Trent Bridge yesterday I saw a group of about 5 men wearing bandages on their right ear.

    Make of that what you will.

    Were they standing at twat mid off?
    Silly twat off, Shirley?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Full quote from Johnson.

    https://x.com/SpeakerJohnson/status/1815093011669516433

    "Speaker Mike Johnson
    @SpeakerJohnson

    At this unprecedented juncture in American history, we must be clear about what just happened. The Democrat Party forced the Democrat nominee off the ballot, just over 100 days before the election.

    Having invalidated the votes of more than 14 million Americans who selected Joe Biden to be the Democrat nominee for president, the self-proclaimed ‘party of democracy’ has proven exactly the opposite.

    The party’s prospects are no better now with Vice President Kamala Harris, who co-owns the disastrous policy failures of the Biden Administration. As second in command and a completely inept border czar, Harris has been a gleeful accomplice — not only in the destruction of American sovereignty, security, and prosperity, but also in the largest political coverup in U.S. history. She has known for as long as anyone of his incapacity to serve.

    Regardless of the chaos in the current White House, our adversaries around the globe should be reminded that the U.S. Congress, the U.S. military, and the American people are fully prepared and committed to defend our interests both at home and abroad.

    If Joe Biden is not fit to run for President, he is not fit to serve as President. He must resign the office immediately. November 5 cannot arrive soon enough."

    He just risks looking like a meanie
    That if he is not fit to run for four more years he is not fit to remain as president for 5 more months is easy enough to refute, but I expect we'll hear about it relentlessly, since at least some percentage even of Democrats will also believe it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,175

    WillG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Speaker of House Mike Johnson: "Biden must resign immediately". BBC News.

    Biden should stay in office just to draw fire on this.
    Staying in office would implicitly signal that Harris isn’t up to the job.
    Why ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,023

    Trump spectacularly misses an opportunity to pitch for the independents:

    Donald Trump had this to say about Joe Biden’s decision to exit the race, as posted on Truth Social:

    "Crooked Joe Biden was not fit to run for President, and is certainly not fit to serve - And never was! He only attained the position of President by lies, Fake News, and not leaving his Basement. All those around him, including his Doctor and the Media, knew that he wasn’t capable of being President, and he wasn’t - And now, look what he’s done to our Country, with millions of people coming across our Border, totally unchecked and unvetted, many from prisons, mental institutions, and record numbers of terrorists. We will suffer greatly because of his presidency, but we will remedy the damage he has done very quickly. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!"


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/jul/21/biden-drops-out-presidential-election

    Utter prick.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,554
    Another truly dire dinner in France. It is exceptional how often they now fuck up. Frozen food with a drizzle of balsamic vinegar around the plate to fake its freshness

    Utterly awful. It’s down at the level of Dutch food now. Without the herrings
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,103

    Andy_JS said:

    Useless fact: at Trent Bridge yesterday I saw a group of about 5 men wearing bandages on their right ear.

    Make of that what you will.

    Jesus, there must be a lot of snipers round there.
    Semiautomatics are illegal here.

    So it was someone with a Lee-Enfield doing a Mad Minute?

    Kind of thing that makes you proud to be British.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,876
    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    geoffw said:

    They've got to pick a new face like Buttigieg to stand a chance

    Exactly, he is articulate and from a Midwest state and has some charisma.

    Harris has the elitist air of liberal coastal entitlement Hillary had, with the charisma of Kerry and the ideology of Dukakis, Trump would love to run against a limousine liberal like her in the rustbelt where she has about as much connection with the white working class as you would expect a former California lawyer to have
    She was born to an immigrant mother and a black American father before blacks got civil rights. Her politics are in the middle of the Democratic party and she was tough on crime. You are just projecting sexism and racism on to her politics.
    She is a liberal coastal elitist who is pro reparations for slavery and pro transgender bathrooms, she may be the dream candidate for woke rich California liberals like the Duchess of Sussex but she is not for Middle America.

    Indeed she would have been better off endorsing Shapiro or Buttigieg in the hope of a SC nomination if they win (she is a capable lawyer granted) but she is not an effective campaigner and has no charisma
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Taz said:

    Kamala v Trump.

    Not a great choice

    What's so bad about Kamala? The worst accsuation I can recall against her is essentially being a bit crap, which as far as some of the choices go could be a lot worse even though it is not exactly inspirting.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122
    HYUFD said:

    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Game, set and match Trump if the Democrats endorse Harris after Biden's withdrawal and follow his mistaken recommendation.

    Harris would lose all the rustbelt swing states Biden won in 2020 and probably lead the Democrats to their worst defeat in the Electoral College since Dukakis as well as losing the popular vote.

    Newsom would be just as bad, Democrats only hope now a rustbelt governor like Shapiro or Buttigieg

    Harris is a prosecutor that represents law and order against the convicted criminal leading the Republicans.
    John Kerry was also a prosecutor, fat lot of good it did him against Bush!
    Yes, but the contrast of being young and articulate vs dozy Donald will draw sharp attention to Trump also being too old and mentally unfit.

    It will send Trump wild to lose to a black female.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,454
    Leon said:

    Can all the PB….

    “Its just a stammer”

    ….guys not take a second to step back and say, even if only for a moment? -

    OK I GOT THAT HORRIBLY WRONG

    Thanks. Asking for all the sane people on PB

    Who is the sane person on PB?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    rcs1000 said:

    WillG said:

    Josh Shapiro, Andy Beshear and Pete Buttigieg would have to be the best VP picks.

    I would add Ossoff to the list.
    I would add Orlov to the list.

    A real match for Putin in Eastern Europe.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,789
    rcs1000 said:

    WillG said:

    Josh Shapiro, Andy Beshear and Pete Buttigieg would have to be the best VP picks.

    I would add Ossoff to the list.
    I have Ossoff £4 @ 112.28 but you can currently get him at 200:

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.190716127

    Whereas Newsome is 20, Harris is 22, Michelle is 25 and Clinton is 40 if you want to waste money.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,890
    HYUFD said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    No stepping down from POTUS, no endorsement of Harris. "Over to you Pelosi you sort this shitshow out "

    “I will speak to the nation later this week.”

    The VP market is very interesting.
    Is Shapiro really a shoe in ?
    The failure to endorse Harris shows that Pelosi has got her way on a contested convention, so that's moot.
    He's endorsed Harris now. I just don't see how anyone else gets a look in at this point.
    Trump gets a look in if that is the case certainly, in fact he is odds on to return to the White House against Harris
    Have you considered the Women's vote, have you considered Kamala 's ethnicity and that Trump is going to appear utterly bonkers when debating Kamala.There might also be a sympathy vote for the Dems in respect of Biden's capitulation. Don't forget "Crooked Joe" ( and only Trump believes he is crooked) has gone for the good of country and party, and although Trump now believes he is probably Jesus having survived an assassination attempt, he is not.

    You may be right of course, but I don't believe you have considered anything other than hypothetical polling and made some bizarre extrapolation from Nixon/ McGovern.
    Women even voted for Hillary, polls show Harris less popular with blacks than Obama was. She has no connection with those white working class rustbelt males who voted for Trump in 2016 and switched to Biden in 2020, the likes of Buttigieg would have more connection with Independents and suburban white graduates than she does too
    So if Pete is on the ticket - the job is a good 'un.

    Bizarrely Trump retains a decent base plus a big number of independents. I am not sure he is as popular as you claim or Kamala is as reviled as you suggest.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    So what's Trump's insulting nickname for Kamala? Crazy Kamala or similar I assume.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    While it would have been better if Biden had stood down months ago, the delay in Biden's decision over the past week has on balance been to the Democrats' advantage, because the decision came after the Republican convention rather than on the eve of it or during it. The Republicans have been denied the opportunity to focus all the energy of their convention into an attack on Harris. The media focus will now be on Harris rather than what the Republicans say about Harris, so she'll be defining her own campaign rather than giving the Republicans the first opportunity to define it for her.

    So I wonder if the decision was made a few days ago.
  • rcs1000 said:

    I am going to create a list of PB's best irrationally over the top hatreds.

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @rcs1000 and Zac Goldsmith
    @HYUFD and Kamala Harris

    @TSE and pineapple on Pizza?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    edited July 21
    Leon said:

    Can all the PB….

    “Its just a stammer”

    ….guys not take a second to step back and say, even if only for a moment? -

    OK I GOT THAT HORRIBLY WRONG

    Thanks. Asking for all the sane people on PB

    They certainly did get it wrong, they missed out the apostrophe in it's.

    Seriously though, who are all these mythical PBers? I haven't anyone posting in the past year that there was nothing wrong with Biden.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Leon said:

    Can all the PB….

    “Its just a stammer”

    ….guys not take a second to step back and say, even if only for a moment? -

    OK I GOT THAT HORRIBLY WRONG

    Thanks. Asking for all the sane people on PB

    Who is the sane person on PB?
    Me of course.

    I'm so sane it's insane.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,175

    In an earlier thread (and by earlier I mean last year) I suggested that Harris had been much more ‘present’ in the media and in public. She was tweeting or commenting on matters in a separate capacity, almost as if she was preparing the ground for a run.

    For those talking of a run by Gavin Newsom, I’d suggest you haud your wheesht. Newsom was married to Kimberly Guilfoyle who is, of course, now engaged to Don Jr.

    I’m nit suggesting that she would use here knowledge of the candidate against him buy, nor make any spurious allegations, but hey, you know, shit happens.

    Was he ?

    Doesn’t speak well of his judgment.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,614
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The people who did everything they could to keep Biden in the race beyond the time it was sensible to do so should feel ashamed of themselves.

    I would just caution that in my experience of dementia it is not as simple as telling someone with the condition to change course

    There can be anger and dismay, even denial from the patient, and key is the actions of the family and those family members closest which I hope in this case proves to be Jill Biden who without doubt would have had a difficult and highly emotional task
    It was hardly kind to put him through the last few months, let alone to run the risk of putting him through the remainder of the campaign up to polling day. And that's just considering the effect on Biden himself. There is quite a lot at stake in this election.
    Again you do not know just how stubborn Biden himself was
    You seem to think you're the only person here with experience of dementia. Absurd.
    Of course I don't but I have seen my father in law die in our home with our family holding his hands and him not knowing any of us, a neighbour who should not be driving become violent towards her son when he took her car keys away, and another long standing widow and friend deny all access to her home for days hiding away frightened and in denial

    I have many other examples but when you are 80+ and your wife is 84 dementia is something you become very aware of
    Please just don't say to other people "you do not know ..." Most of us do.
    If you took that comment personally I would like to apologise as I have no intention to offend anyone over the distressing nature of dementia and those loved ones who have witnessed it first hand in all its emotional elements
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 976
    kle4 said:

    So what's Trump's insulting nickname for Kamala? Crazy Kamala or similar I assume.

    I swear to God if the media start to question her sanity......
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,276
    kle4 said:

    So what's Trump's insulting nickname for Kamala? Crazy Kamala or similar I assume.

    Cackling Kamala
  • Leon said:

    Another truly dire dinner in France. It is exceptional how often they now fuck up. Frozen food with a drizzle of balsamic vinegar around the plate to fake its freshness

    Utterly awful. It’s down at the level of Dutch food now. Without the herrings

    Never mind. We are off for a Cornish Curry.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,876
    edited July 21
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Game, set and match Trump if the Democrats endorse Harris after Biden's withdrawal and follow his mistaken recommendation.

    Harris would lose all the rustbelt swing states Biden won in 2020 and probably lead the Democrats to their worst defeat in the Electoral College since Dukakis as well as losing the popular vote.

    Newsom would be just as bad, Democrats only hope now a rustbelt governor like Shapiro or Buttigieg

    Harris is a prosecutor that represents law and order against the convicted criminal leading the Republicans.
    John Kerry was also a prosecutor, fat lot of good it did him against Bush!
    Yes, but the contrast of being young and articulate vs dozy Donald will draw sharp attention to Trump also being too old and mentally unfit.

    It will send Trump wild to lose to a black female.
    Trump has charisma, Harris does not.

    Harris is the candidate of Hollywood, Silicon Valley and liberal lawyers as Hillary was, not the manufacturers and farmers and small business people Trump is (even Biden had more appeal to them as he showed in 2020)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    HYUFD said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    No stepping down from POTUS, no endorsement of Harris. "Over to you Pelosi you sort this shitshow out "

    “I will speak to the nation later this week.”

    The VP market is very interesting.
    Is Shapiro really a shoe in ?
    The failure to endorse Harris shows that Pelosi has got her way on a contested convention, so that's moot.
    He's endorsed Harris now. I just don't see how anyone else gets a look in at this point.
    Trump gets a look in if that is the case certainly, in fact he is odds on to return to the White House against Harris
    Have you considered the Women's vote, have you considered Kamala 's ethnicity and that Trump is going to appear utterly bonkers when debating Kamala.There might also be a sympathy vote for the Dems in respect of Biden's capitulation. Don't forget "Crooked Joe" ( and only Trump believes he is crooked) has gone for the good of country and party, and although Trump now believes he is probably Jesus having survived an assassination attempt, he is not.

    You may be right of course, but I don't believe you have considered anything other than hypothetical polling and made some bizarre extrapolation from Nixon/ McGovern.
    Women even voted for Hillary, polls show Harris less popular with blacks than Obama was. She has no connection with those white working class rustbelt males who voted for Trump in 2016 and switched to Biden in 2020, the likes of Buttigieg would have more connection with Independents and suburban white graduates than she does too
    So if Pete is on the ticket - the job is a good 'un.

    Bizarrely Trump retains a decent base plus a big number of independents. I am not sure he is as popular as you claim or Kamala is as reviled as you suggest.
    I hope so. The large number of independents who are at best only midly irked by Trump being a convicted criminal and election denier are the key, is the hope they were so put off by BIden's frailty that they will swing en masse behind Kamala? I struggle to see it.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    rcs1000 said:

    I am going to create a list of PB's best irrationally over the top hatreds.

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @rcs1000 and Zac Goldsmith
    @HYUFD and Kamala Harris

    @Leon and Liz Truss
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    Kamala surely odds on to win the election now.

    Not at all, Trump currently leads Harris by 5%, 44% to 38.5% on average with Kennedy on 10.5%, Stein on 2% and West on 1.5%.

    If repeated in November that would be the lowest Democratic voteshare in a general election since McGovern's 37.5% in 1972 when Nixon crushed him by a landslide. Trump would win the popular vote and the biggest GOP victory margin since Bush 41 over Dukakis in 1988
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2024/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_harris_vs_kennedy_vs_stein_vs_west-8510.html
    The latest 538 polls had Harris polling better than Biden in some polls, with others showing the opposite.

    "Currently" means nothing. Every poll is outdated now. Hypothetical polls are different to real ones.

    What can be reasonably predicted now is that:
    1. Approval of Biden will recover to a degree now, just as the approval ratings of every retiring president improve in their final couple of months after November, provided that they conduct themselves with grace.
    2. Harris's polling will improve by virtue of:
    - her new status as Biden's nominated heir
    - the fact that her candidacy in a hypothetical poll would no longer imply a disloyal challenge to a president running for a second term
    - the newfound unity amongst Democrats, for I doubt if she will face any serious challenge
    - potentially a strong VP pick to join Harris on the ticket
    I reckon these hypothetical polls are likely to be even more misleading than hypothetical polls in general.

    I think as presumptive nominee, Biden would get the full benefit of anti-Trump sentiment, in a way that hypothetical alternatives wouldn't. Let's see some polls where it's a definite choice between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump.
    Plus Kamala will be the news story, not Donald's ear.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Kamala v Trump.

    Not a great choice

    What's so bad about Kamala? The worst accsuation I can recall against her is essentially being a bit crap, which as far as some of the choices go could be a lot worse even though it is not exactly inspirting.
    My Texan students suggested that her role a# a prosecutor, prosecuting black people as a person of colour does not enhance her reputation among black voters.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,876
    rcs1000 said:

    I am going to create a list of PB's best irrationally over the top hatreds.

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @rcs1000 and Zac Goldsmith
    @HYUFD and Kamala Harris

    I don't hate Harris, she is clearly an intelligent woman and an able lawyer but I just think she is unelectable in Middle America
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970
    If they play their cards right the momentum for Karmala Harris could be unstoppable. Very much down to the zeitgeist. One thing which has gone unnoticed is how bad Trump has looked lately. Particularly at his convention. Again if the cards fall kindly Harris should become an easier sell than Trump.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,890
    edited July 21
    Can I ask Casino why he has given me a "troll" for a perfectly reasonable comment on the last thread? TSE has mentioned before that the troll button is not simply an opportunity to dismiss posts one disagrees with.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    HYUFD said:

    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    geoffw said:

    They've got to pick a new face like Buttigieg to stand a chance

    Exactly, he is articulate and from a Midwest state and has some charisma.

    Harris has the elitist air of liberal coastal entitlement Hillary had, with the charisma of Kerry and the ideology of Dukakis, Trump would love to run against a limousine liberal like her in the rustbelt where she has about as much connection with the white working class as you would expect a former California lawyer to have
    She was born to an immigrant mother and a black American father before blacks got civil rights. Her politics are in the middle of the Democratic party and she was tough on crime. You are just projecting sexism and racism on to her politics.
    She is a liberal coastal elitist who is pro reparations for slavery and pro transgender bathrooms, she may be the dream candidate for woke rich California liberals like the Duchess of Sussex but she is not for Middle America.

    Indeed she would have been better off endorsing Shapiro or Buttigieg in the hope of a SC nomination if they win (she is a capable lawyer granted) but she is not an effective campaigner and has no charisma
    She was on the ticket with Biden so has at least some arguable democratic endorsement, and if not the chosen option they would be totally split and ruined, I don't see they had much choice.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,554

    Leon said:

    Can all the PB….

    “Its just a stammer”

    ….guys not take a second to step back and say, even if only for a moment? -

    OK I GOT THAT HORRIBLY WRONG

    Thanks. Asking for all the sane people on PB

    They certainly did get it wrong, they missed out the apostrophe in it's.

    Seriously though, who are all these mythical PBers? I haven't anyone posting in the past year that there was nothing wrong with Biden.
    Anyone who mentioned his “stammer” in the past 12-18 months as a way of excuse. They know who they are
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,789
    Leon said:

    Another truly dire dinner in France. It is exceptional how often they now fuck up. Frozen food with a drizzle of balsamic vinegar around the plate to fake its freshness

    Utterly awful. It’s down at the level of Dutch food now. Without the herrings

    Perhaps they give the crap food to British tourists and save the better stuff for locals.

    You need to tell them who you are.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,454
    As an aside, I'm fairly sure that someone on PB posted that Biden was going to have a talk with his family, friends and associates this weekend and possibly resign. Can anyone remember the post and poster?
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 976
    Leon said:

    Can all the PB….

    “Its just a stammer”

    ….guys not take a second to step back and say, even if only for a moment? -

    OK I GOT THAT HORRIBLY WRONG

    Thanks. Asking for all the sane people on PB

    Why did people claim until the end it was just a stutter/stammer? Political bias?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    viewcode said:

    JESUS EFFING FLIP! I GO AWAY FOR A FEW HOURS (I did some DIY. It's a bit wobbly) AND THIS BLOODY HAPPENS. IT'S YOUR FAULT PB! BAD YOU!

    :smile::smile::smile::smile::smile::smile::smile:

    It's TSE.

    He's been behind every world crisis since he started editing the Site.
    I am absolutely knackered.

    A public service announcement.

    I am taking a holiday from the 16th of August through to the 26th of August.
    Is Clacton what it was though?
    Actually I am going to Trump's hotel in Scotland for the first part of the August holiday.
    I'm sure it'll be great, and I hope you have a great break. I'm sure you'll find reasons to not choose Trump in the future though.
    Hope the weather picks up it has been crap so far this year, beautiful area though and Turnberry is superb.
    Maidens is nearby and Wildings is a great restaurant though may need booking.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Roger said:

    If they play their cards right the momentum for Karmala Harris could be unstoppable. Very much down to the zeitgeist. One thing which has gone unnoticed is how bad Trump has looked lately. Particularly at his convention. Again if the cards fall kindly Harris should become an easier sell than Trump.

    I wish I had your optimism. But it is true Trump has not looked physically or verbally well for some time. He's been under a lot of pressure himself, even if his legal cases (bar one) have gone exactly as he would have liked in the last few months.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,175

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    No stepping down from POTUS, no endorsement of Harris. "Over to you Pelosi you sort this shitshow out "

    “I will speak to the nation later this week.”

    The VP market is very interesting.
    Is Shapiro really a shoe in ?
    The failure to endorse Harris shows that Pelosi has got her way on a contested convention, so that's moot.
    He's endorsed Harris now. I just don't see how anyone else gets a look in at this point.
    Trump gets a look in if that is the case certainly, in fact he is odds on to return to the White House against Harris
    Have you considered the Women's vote, have you considered Kamala 's ethnicity and that Trump is going to appear utterly bonkers when debating Kamala.There might also be a sympathy vote for the Dems in respect of Biden's capitulation. Don't forget "Crooked Joe" ( and only Trump believes he is crooked) has gone for the good of country and party, and although Trump now believes he is probably Jesus having survived an assassination attempt, he is not.

    You may be right of course, but I don't believe you have considered anything other than hypothetical polling and made some bizarre extrapolation from Nixon/ McGovern.
    Also, the ‘assassination attempt’ narrative is beginning to develop holes.

    The “they tried to kill me” thing has now probably turned out to be just another sad loner trying to make himself famous by killing people.
    Not much different from the school shooters that decades of Republican pro gun policy has enabled.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122
    Nunu5 said:

    Leon said:

    Can all the PB….

    “Its just a stammer”

    ….guys not take a second to step back and say, even if only for a moment? -

    OK I GOT THAT HORRIBLY WRONG

    Thanks. Asking for all the sane people on PB

    Why did people claim until the end it was just a stutter/stammer? Political bias?
    I don't think they did.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,103

    HYUFD said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    No stepping down from POTUS, no endorsement of Harris. "Over to you Pelosi you sort this shitshow out "

    “I will speak to the nation later this week.”

    The VP market is very interesting.
    Is Shapiro really a shoe in ?
    The failure to endorse Harris shows that Pelosi has got her way on a contested convention, so that's moot.
    He's endorsed Harris now. I just don't see how anyone else gets a look in at this point.
    Trump gets a look in if that is the case certainly, in fact he is odds on to return to the White House against Harris
    Have you considered the Women's vote, have you considered Kamala 's ethnicity and that Trump is going to appear utterly bonkers when debating Kamala.There might also be a sympathy vote for the Dems in respect of Biden's capitulation. Don't forget "Crooked Joe" ( and only Trump believes he is crooked) has gone for the good of country and party, and although Trump now believes he is probably Jesus having survived an assassination attempt, he is not.

    You may be right of course, but I don't believe you have considered anything other than hypothetical polling and made some bizarre extrapolation from Nixon/ McGovern.
    Women even voted for Hillary, polls show Harris less popular with blacks than Obama was. She has no connection with those white working class rustbelt males who voted for Trump in 2016 and switched to Biden in 2020, the likes of Buttigieg would have more connection with Independents and suburban white graduates than she does too
    So if Pete is on the ticket - the job is a good 'un.

    Bizarrely Trump retains a decent base plus a big number of independents. I am not sure he is as popular as you claim or Kamala is as reviled as you suggest.
    45% will vote for Trump. 45% will vote against Trump.

    It’s the 10% left, especially in the swing states.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,919
    Kamala at least looks like she can do the job for 4 years.

    She stands in great contrast to Trump. She can articulate the choice so much better than Biden can. Whether it’s enough, it’s difficult to say at this stage. But she will run a much more vital and effective campaign than Biden would ever manage now, and for that reason alone the Democrats are at least back in the game.

    I agree she should choose someone like Shapiro for VP.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,616
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Game, set and match Trump if the Democrats endorse Harris after Biden's withdrawal and follow his mistaken recommendation.

    Harris would lose all the rustbelt swing states Biden won in 2020 and probably lead the Democrats to their worst defeat in the Electoral College since Dukakis as well as losing the popular vote.

    Newsom would be just as bad, Democrats only hope now a rustbelt governor like Shapiro or Buttigieg

    Harris is a prosecutor that represents law and order against the convicted criminal leading the Republicans.
    John Kerry was also a prosecutor, fat lot of good it did him against Bush!
    Yes, but the contrast of being young and articulate vs dozy Donald will draw sharp attention to Trump also being too old and mentally unfit.

    It will send Trump wild to lose to a black female.
    Trump has charisma, Harris does not.

    Harris is the candidate of Hollywood, Silicon Valley and liberal lawyers as Hillary was, not the manufacturers and farmers and small business people Trump is (even Biden had more appeal to them as he showed in 2020)
    You do know she was an aggressive prosecutor, right?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,118

    rcs1000 said:

    WillG said:

    Josh Shapiro, Andy Beshear and Pete Buttigieg would have to be the best VP picks.

    I would add Ossoff to the list.
    I have Ossoff £4 @ 112.28 but you can currently get him at 200:

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.190716127

    Whereas Newsome is 20, Harris is 22, Michelle is 25 and Clinton is 40 if you want to waste money.
    Ossof. Hmm. interesting. Brings Georgia into the play.

    I like. :+1:
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The people who did everything they could to keep Biden in the race beyond the time it was sensible to do so should feel ashamed of themselves.

    I would just caution that in my experience of dementia it is not as simple as telling someone with the condition to change course

    There can be anger and dismay, even denial from the patient, and key is the actions of the family and those family members closest which I hope in this case proves to be Jill Biden who without doubt would have had a difficult and highly emotional task
    It was hardly kind to put him through the last few months, let alone to run the risk of putting him through the remainder of the campaign up to polling day. And that's just considering the effect on Biden himself. There is quite a lot at stake in this election.
    Again you do not know just how stubborn Biden himself was
    You seem to think you're the only person here with experience of dementia. Absurd.
    Of course I don't but I have seen my father in law die in our home with our family holding his hands and him not knowing any of us, a neighbour who should not be driving become violent towards her son when he took her car keys away, and another long standing widow and friend deny all access to her home for days hiding away frightened and in denial

    I have many other examples but when you are 80+ and your wife is 84 dementia is something you become very aware of
    Please just don't say to other people "you do not know ..." Most of us do.
    If you took that comment personally I would like to apologise as I have no intention to offend anyone over the distressing nature of dementia and those loved ones who have witnessed it first hand in all its emotional elements
    Don't let it worry you Big_G, we all know you didn't mean it that way.

    I suspect we've all had experience of loved ones with dementia, which I am sure you understand.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Kamala v Trump.

    Not a great choice

    What's so bad about Kamala? The worst accsuation I can recall against her is essentially being a bit crap, which as far as some of the choices go could be a lot worse even though it is not exactly inspirting.
    My Texan students suggested that her role a# a prosecutor, prosecuting black people as a person of colour does not enhance her reputation among black voters.
    She polls better than Biden with black voters in swing states, albeit not so well as Obama.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 976
    The thing with picking Andy Beshear is he might end up looking better than Harris! With questions of why he isn't the nominee?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,616

    rcs1000 said:

    WillG said:

    Josh Shapiro, Andy Beshear and Pete Buttigieg would have to be the best VP picks.

    I would add Ossoff to the list.
    I would add Orlov to the list.

    A real match for Putin in Eastern Europe.
    General Orlov?

    https://youtu.be/x99njmZxaMA?si=3i8mRxtUE46hCgho
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 976

    rcs1000 said:

    WillG said:

    Josh Shapiro, Andy Beshear and Pete Buttigieg would have to be the best VP picks.

    I would add Ossoff to the list.
    I have Ossoff £4 @ 112.28 but you can currently get him at 200:

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.190716127

    Whereas Newsome is 20, Harris is 22, Michelle is 25 and Clinton is 40 if you want to waste money.
    Ossof. Hmm. interesting. Brings Georgia into the play.

    I like. :+1:
    I think there's is a very good chance he is the VP pick
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,789
    rcs1000 said:

    I am going to create a list of PB's best irrationally over the top hatreds.

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @rcs1000 and Zac Goldsmith
    @HYUFD and Kamala Harris

    All time record:

    tim and George Osborne

    Incredibly it must be about ten years since tim left.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Kamala v Trump.

    Not a great choice

    What's so bad about Kamala? The worst accsuation I can recall against her is essentially being a bit crap, which as far as some of the choices go could be a lot worse even though it is not exactly inspirting.
    My Texan students suggested that her role a# a prosecutor, prosecuting black people as a person of colour does not enhance her reputation among black voters.
    I recall something about her prosecution record coming up when she ran for the job in 2020, though perhaps more on the line that she was too tough for the more wokish liberals, as would be expected from a prosecutor.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970
    Nigelb said:

    The absolute banter outcome now is for the Dems to run on Trump’s age and mental capacity to do the job.

    https://x.com/keiranpedley/status/1815089099050799595

    He is now the oldest nominee in US history.

    The geriatric buffoon.
    You missed out 'criminal'
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693

    Kamala at least looks like she can do the job for 4 years.

    She stands in great contrast to Trump. She can articulate the choice so much better than Biden can. Whether it’s enough, it’s difficult to say at this stage. But she will run a much more vital and effective campaign than Biden would ever manage now, and for that reason alone the Democrats are at least back in the game.

    I agree she should choose someone like Shapiro for VP.

    My guess is Trump drifts to about a 50-55% chance soon-ish, maybe around 1.9 on Betfair, and then Kamala shortens.

    That will be the time to top up on Trump.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    Leon predicted this first I believe. Right again.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,118

    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    26m
    106 days. Yes We Can.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 728
    Leon said:

    Can all the PB….

    “Its just a stammer”

    ….guys not take a second to step back and say, even if only for a moment? -

    OK I GOT THAT HORRIBLY WRONG

    Thanks. Asking for all the sane people on PB

    Maybe you ought to apologise for insisting he has dementia one minute and and then saying he is responsible for the Trump shooting the next. You have no evidence for either
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Kamala v Trump.

    Not a great choice

    What's so bad about Kamala? The worst accsuation I can recall against her is essentially being a bit crap, which as far as some of the choices go could be a lot worse even though it is not exactly inspirting.
    My Texan students suggested that her role a# a prosecutor, prosecuting black people as a person of colour does not enhance her reputation among black voters.
    The vast majority of black Americans are not college educated and don't have much truck with progressive identity politics groups. Generally they think there is too much crime in their neighborhoods and quite like them being put behind bars.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,890

    Striking that no other big names seem to have said anything in support of Harris yet.

    You are being very silly this evening!
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,830

    rcs1000 said:

    I am going to create a list of PB's best irrationally over the top hatreds.

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @rcs1000 and Zac Goldsmith
    @HYUFD and Kamala Harris

    @Leon and Liz Truss
    You've missed me out re Gordon Brown
  • EScrymgeourEScrymgeour Posts: 141
    rcs1000 said:

    WillG said:

    Josh Shapiro, Andy Beshear and Pete Buttigieg would have to be the best VP picks.

    I would add Ossoff to the list.
    Mark Kelly? American hero and has beat Republicans against the odds. Also Gabby Giffords husband.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Roger said:

    Nigelb said:

    The absolute banter outcome now is for the Dems to run on Trump’s age and mental capacity to do the job.

    https://x.com/keiranpedley/status/1815089099050799595

    He is now the oldest nominee in US history.

    The geriatric buffoon.
    You missed out 'criminal'
    Convicted criminal, conspiracy theorist, rapist, fraudster, insurrectionist.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693

    Can I ask Casino why he has given me a "troll" for a perfectly reasonable comment on the last thread? TSE has mentioned before that the troll button is not simply an opportunity to dismiss posts one disagrees with.

    Because you were trolling, and that's what the button is for.

    Parents paying for independent schools are already making the sacrifices you describe, including ourselves, and your bunch of charlatans turning the thumbscrews will force them out entirely.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,118
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon predicted this first I believe. Right again.

    He predicted Biden was passed it. Not sure about Harris.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,614

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The people who did everything they could to keep Biden in the race beyond the time it was sensible to do so should feel ashamed of themselves.

    I would just caution that in my experience of dementia it is not as simple as telling someone with the condition to change course

    There can be anger and dismay, even denial from the patient, and key is the actions of the family and those family members closest which I hope in this case proves to be Jill Biden who without doubt would have had a difficult and highly emotional task
    It was hardly kind to put him through the last few months, let alone to run the risk of putting him through the remainder of the campaign up to polling day. And that's just considering the effect on Biden himself. There is quite a lot at stake in this election.
    Again you do not know just how stubborn Biden himself was
    You seem to think you're the only person here with experience of dementia. Absurd.
    Of course I don't but I have seen my father in law die in our home with our family holding his hands and him not knowing any of us, a neighbour who should not be driving become violent towards her son when he took her car keys away, and another long standing widow and friend deny all access to her home for days hiding away frightened and in denial

    I have many other examples but when you are 80+ and your wife is 84 dementia is something you become very aware of
    Please just don't say to other people "you do not know ..." Most of us do.
    If you took that comment personally I would like to apologise as I have no intention to offend anyone over the distressing nature of dementia and those loved ones who have witnessed it first hand in all its emotional elements
    Don't let it worry you Big_G, we all know you didn't mean it that way.

    I suspect we've all had experience of loved ones with dementia, which I am sure you understand.
    I do and it can be very cruel to watch a loved one deteriorate with dementia and the feeling of utter helplessness
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Kamala v Trump.

    Not a great choice

    What's so bad about Kamala? The worst accsuation I can recall against her is essentially being a bit crap, which as far as some of the choices go could be a lot worse even though it is not exactly inspirting.
    My Texan students suggested that her role a# a prosecutor, prosecuting black people as a person of colour does not enhance her reputation among black voters.
    She was a prosecutor . It’s hardly a shock that she’d end up prosecuting some black people.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    rcs1000 said:

    I am going to create a list of PB's best irrationally over the top hatreds.

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @rcs1000 and Zac Goldsmith
    @HYUFD and Kamala Harris

    @Leon and Liz Truss
    @TheBritishElectorate and Liz Truss
    Lol yes, I read RCS's post the wrong way round, doh!
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,472
    I reckon Trump may struggle with Kamala. He'll probably avoid playing the race card, but he'll be too tempted to reach for lazy misogynist tropes to use against her, which may well backfire.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    Trump is lying through his teeth when he says he prefers to face Harris compared to Biden.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,023

    Can I ask Casino why he has given me a "troll" for a perfectly reasonable comment on the last thread? TSE has mentioned before that the troll button is not simply an opportunity to dismiss posts one disagrees with.

    Message him directly, he may not see this ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,276
    https://apnews.com/article/biden-harris-election-2024-democrats-withdrawal-trump-c8b82fa105953e8f485c769580f7da49

    Under Democratic Party rules, Biden cannot transfer his pledged delegates to another candidate. With Biden stepping aside, Democrats will start with an open convention.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,111
    Good to see there's a presedential candidate you can fully get behind as being both mentally soundly for the job and hasn't discussed becoming a dictator for a 'temporary' period.

    I hope that, like France, enough Americans pull together to reject extremism, which is more severe in Trump's GOP than Le Pen's party.

    Unite behind Harris and take the attack to Trump.
This discussion has been closed.