In spite of the latest EU dealings those who think Brexit was wrong still have clear 8% lead with Yo
Comments
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Who would have thunk Gove and Johnson were going to be on the reasonable side in our first post-divorce spat.Scott_xP said:4 -
Sort of health repeat of the financial assistance provided in 2010.MaxPB said:
Giving 1.4m doses to the Republic isn't a win for anyone other than common sense to prevent a hard border on the island. The idea just seems mental to me because there will have to be a border checking to see if vaccine doses are being taken into NI.Casino_Royale said:
We will give them to them (in UK Aid boxes) when we're good and ready, and not before.MaxPB said:
Tbh, we should give them 2m AZ doses over the next few weeks so they can fully jab their over 70s. It's a small sacrifice for us and it prevents any kind of risk of border checks.Floater said:
Not to the EU vaccination procurement team......MaxPB said:
Can't be more than 1m, that's a small number.alex_ said:
And how many over 70s?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
6.5 million people - we've got enough on order...alex_ said:
Ireland isn't actually a very big country. We could probably do it.Razedabode said:
At least that’s clear as day. I feel sorry for Ireland - the country with the most to lose in the EU. Let’s give them some of our vaccinesRobD said:
Was clear from the start they were just using the border for their own political interest. They don't give two hoots about the people there.dr_spyn said:What a carve up.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1355212119277522945
EU fall into their own Irish bear trap.
They can't be seen to have won anything from this whatsoever.0 -
I can't see how it does prevent it.MaxPB said:
Giving 1.4m doses to the Republic isn't a win for anyone other than common sense to prevent a hard border on the island. The idea just seems mental to me because there will have to be a border checking to see if vaccine doses are being taken into NI.Casino_Royale said:
We will give them to them (in UK Aid boxes) when we're good and ready, and not before.MaxPB said:
Tbh, we should give them 2m AZ doses over the next few weeks so they can fully jab their over 70s. It's a small sacrifice for us and it prevents any kind of risk of border checks.Floater said:
Not to the EU vaccination procurement team......MaxPB said:
Can't be more than 1m, that's a small number.alex_ said:
And how many over 70s?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
6.5 million people - we've got enough on order...alex_ said:
Ireland isn't actually a very big country. We could probably do it.Razedabode said:
At least that’s clear as day. I feel sorry for Ireland - the country with the most to lose in the EU. Let’s give them some of our vaccinesRobD said:
Was clear from the start they were just using the border for their own political interest. They don't give two hoots about the people there.dr_spyn said:What a carve up.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1355212119277522945
EU fall into their own Irish bear trap.
They can't be seen to have won anything from this whatsoever.0 -
res ad triarios redit...tlg86 said:
James O'Brien.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That from Adam Boulton is astonishing considering how pro EU he isCarlottaVance said:
Just need Ian Dunt to condemn the EU to make it surreal
And of course Nicola0 -
Another twist.
https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/1355223741547077632
Must have been some serious arm twisting.0 -
The Germans made me agree with Sadiq Khan, this whole saga has made for odd alliances.williamglenn said:Please don't make me have to root for Michael Gove.
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/13552238108621004811 -
Don't know. He could be one of those locals who signed up to serve with the Auxiliary Cohorts on the Gask Ridge Limes and is more Roman than the Romans while still dressed in his feile mhor.Theuniondivvie said:
I'd always visualised him wearing one of those sculpted & gilded breastplates, perhaps a laurel wreath. Disappointing.Carnyx said:
I wondered what @BluestBlue looked like.Luckyguy1983 said:
Looks like a latin fan on top right though, greeting everyone with a rather classical 'Ave'.TheScreamingEagles said:
What a bunch of incel virgins these Scot Nats are.Floater said:https://twitter.com/UKDefJournal/status/1354918962451120129
Ok - own up, which of you nats was it
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The Republic are responsible for policing the border - if it needs policing.Luckyguy1983 said:
I can't see how it does prevent it.MaxPB said:
Giving 1.4m doses to the Republic isn't a win for anyone other than common sense to prevent a hard border on the island. The idea just seems mental to me because there will have to be a border checking to see if vaccine doses are being taken into NI.Casino_Royale said:
We will give them to them (in UK Aid boxes) when we're good and ready, and not before.MaxPB said:
Tbh, we should give them 2m AZ doses over the next few weeks so they can fully jab their over 70s. It's a small sacrifice for us and it prevents any kind of risk of border checks.Floater said:
Not to the EU vaccination procurement team......MaxPB said:
Can't be more than 1m, that's a small number.alex_ said:
And how many over 70s?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
6.5 million people - we've got enough on order...alex_ said:
Ireland isn't actually a very big country. We could probably do it.Razedabode said:
At least that’s clear as day. I feel sorry for Ireland - the country with the most to lose in the EU. Let’s give them some of our vaccinesRobD said:
Was clear from the start they were just using the border for their own political interest. They don't give two hoots about the people there.dr_spyn said:What a carve up.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1355212119277522945
EU fall into their own Irish bear trap.
They can't be seen to have won anything from this whatsoever.0 -
UK Govt doesn't need to get sucked into a DUP driven agenda though. No need when the UK is in the right.Scott_xP said:0 -
No we won't do that but you are amazing to be honestwilliamglenn said:Please don't make me have to root for Michael Gove.
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/13552238108621004810 -
If they are seriously invoking article 16, that means that they absolutely are intending to stop exports to the UK at all costs. Otherwise, why do it? Ireland doesn't make anything.MaxPB said:Hold on a minute, does that mean that there will be EU checks on the island of Ireland to ensure no vaccines are being shipped to NI?
That strikes me as a complete disaster idea.
And having a US company that won't be able to send any of its products back to the US??
Have they thought this through?
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Winner of the Flying Pigs Award
Daily Express Editor "We're never doing an anti immigrant story again"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000rlpl?xtor=CS8-1000-[Discovery_Cards]-[Multi_Site]-[SL03]-[PS_SOUNDS~N~~TheMediaShowDailyExpress]0 -
It's surely option 2 coupled with an offer to integrate Ireland into the highly successful UK vaccine programme "to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland". It is the only way out of this as bringing us all back from the brink.CarlottaVance said:0 -
We are considering the nuclear option.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No we won't do that but you are amazing to be honestwilliamglenn said:Please don't make me have to root for Michael Gove.
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1355223810862100481
Actions (or lack of them) that will make Gavin Williamson be carried aloft in triumph at the next Teacher Union Conference.
You have been warned.1 -
It's hard enough for anybody to do that.williamglenn said:Please don't make me have to root for Michael Gove.
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1355223810862100481
#safevaccines #dontlistentothepresidentoffrancedr_spyn said:Another twist.
https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/1355223741547077632
Must have been some serious arm twisting.1 -
Another story only getting attention on London news:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55842611
Activists who dug a tunnel near Euston station in protest against the £106bn HS2 rail project are at "risk of drowning", officials have warned.
Bailiffs are still evicting people from the Euston Square Gardens camp after protesters dug a tunnel they claim is 100ft (30m) long.
Whilst I support their cause, I certainly don't support their actions. Personally I'd starve them out.0 -
At the moment i think the EU are just saying that this is about controls - recording when shipments leave the EU. They say they want to know what's leaving. They haven't actually banned exports yet i think.Flatlander said:
If they are seriously invoking article 16, that means that they absolutely are intending to stop exports to the UK at all costs. Otherwise, why do it? Ireland doesn't make anything.MaxPB said:Hold on a minute, does that mean that there will be EU checks on the island of Ireland to ensure no vaccines are being shipped to NI?
That strikes me as a complete disaster idea.
And having a US company that won't be able to send any of its products back to the US??
Have they thought this through?0 -
καὶ σύ, τέκνον;Carnyx said:
I wondered what @BluestBlue looked like.Luckyguy1983 said:
Looks like a latin fan on top right though, greeting everyone with a rather classical 'Ave'.TheScreamingEagles said:
What a bunch of incel virgins these Scot Nats are.Floater said:https://twitter.com/UKDefJournal/status/1354918962451120129
Ok - own up, which of you nats was it1 -
Isn't that because they'd have to admit that Brexit is useless at preventing immigration, because its' whjat the Tories' backers want, cheap labour etc.?Roger said:Winner of the Flying Pigs Award
Daily Express Editor "We're never doing an anti immigrant story again"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000rlpl?xtor=CS8-1000-[Discovery_Cards]-[Multi_Site]-[SL03]-[PS_SOUNDS~N~~TheMediaShowDailyExpress]0 -
All it now take to derail the UK's vaccine program is someone in Brussels to tick "no" rather than "yes" on a form.alex_ said:
At the moment i think the EU are just saying that this is about controls - recording when shipments leave the EU. They say they want to know what's leaving. They haven't actually banned exports yet i think.Flatlander said:
If they are seriously invoking article 16, that means that they absolutely are intending to stop exports to the UK at all costs. Otherwise, why do it? Ireland doesn't make anything.MaxPB said:Hold on a minute, does that mean that there will be EU checks on the island of Ireland to ensure no vaccines are being shipped to NI?
That strikes me as a complete disaster idea.
And having a US company that won't be able to send any of its products back to the US??
Have they thought this through?1 -
Oh, god. We're in the upside down now.williamglenn said:Please don't make me have to root for Michael Gove.
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1355223810862100481
I was hoping 2021 would be an improvement on 2020.
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My life long dream to ban French people from visiting the UK may soon happen if they don't vaccinate their population.
What a time to be alive.4 -
If is about recording, why not just get Pfizer to do it? Why go to the extreme measure of invoking article 16?alex_ said:
At the moment i think the EU are just saying that this is about controls - recording when shipments leave the EU. They say they want to know what's leaving. They haven't actually banned exports yet i think.Flatlander said:
If they are seriously invoking article 16, that means that they absolutely are intending to stop exports to the UK at all costs. Otherwise, why do it? Ireland doesn't make anything.MaxPB said:Hold on a minute, does that mean that there will be EU checks on the island of Ireland to ensure no vaccines are being shipped to NI?
That strikes me as a complete disaster idea.
And having a US company that won't be able to send any of its products back to the US??
Have they thought this through?
Which also makes it look like this is specifically targetting the UK (which it is, obvs)1 -
Happily we have got Novavax delivering in 8-10 weeks. Any disruption will have a limited overall effect.RobD said:
All it now take to derail the UK's vaccine program is someone in Brussels to tick "no" rather than "yes" on a form.alex_ said:
At the moment i think the EU are just saying that this is about controls - recording when shipments leave the EU. They say they want to know what's leaving. They haven't actually banned exports yet i think.Flatlander said:
If they are seriously invoking article 16, that means that they absolutely are intending to stop exports to the UK at all costs. Otherwise, why do it? Ireland doesn't make anything.MaxPB said:Hold on a minute, does that mean that there will be EU checks on the island of Ireland to ensure no vaccines are being shipped to NI?
That strikes me as a complete disaster idea.
And having a US company that won't be able to send any of its products back to the US??
Have they thought this through?1 -
And??Big_G_NorthWales said:This weekends paper are going to be a horror show for the EU
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Big_G was talking about the European press.bigjohnowls said:
And??Big_G_NorthWales said:This weekends paper are going to be a horror show for the EU
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And they don't exactly appear to be acting in a calm and collected manner. We have had EU folk claiming thar the UK is trying to start a war, that AZN are lying about everything from their contract to how good their vaccine is...RobD said:
All it now take to derail the UK's vaccine program is someone in Brussels to tick "no" rather than "yes" on a form.alex_ said:
At the moment i think the EU are just saying that this is about controls - recording when shipments leave the EU. They say they want to know what's leaving. They haven't actually banned exports yet i think.Flatlander said:
If they are seriously invoking article 16, that means that they absolutely are intending to stop exports to the UK at all costs. Otherwise, why do it? Ireland doesn't make anything.MaxPB said:Hold on a minute, does that mean that there will be EU checks on the island of Ireland to ensure no vaccines are being shipped to NI?
That strikes me as a complete disaster idea.
And having a US company that won't be able to send any of its products back to the US??
Have they thought this through?0 -
Big shout out to the British, who absolutely itching for a foreign holiday somewhere warm so let's get the jabs on.CarlottaVance said:0 -
I heard that interview. He came away with the astonishing claim that no Express reader was racist.Roger said:Winner of the Flying Pigs Award
Daily Express Editor "We're never doing an anti immigrant story again"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000rlpl?xtor=CS8-1000-[Discovery_Cards]-[Multi_Site]-[SL03]-[PS_SOUNDS~N~~TheMediaShowDailyExpress]0 -
χαῖρε!BluestBlue said:
καὶ σύ, τέκνον;Carnyx said:
I wondered what @BluestBlue looked like.Luckyguy1983 said:
Looks like a latin fan on top right though, greeting everyone with a rather classical 'Ave'.TheScreamingEagles said:
What a bunch of incel virgins these Scot Nats are.Floater said:https://twitter.com/UKDefJournal/status/1354918962451120129
Ok - own up, which of you nats was it0 -
Another interesting point is that the EU are claiming that individual countries are free to do their own thing. So we could come to a bilateral agreement with Ireland to provide some of our vaccine if they let us import (a far greater amount) from there?0
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Actually they are now owned by Reach who own the Mirror, I suspect The Express will be backing Labour soon.Roger said:Winner of the Flying Pigs Award
Daily Express Editor "We're never doing an anti immigrant story again"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000rlpl?xtor=CS8-1000-[Discovery_Cards]-[Multi_Site]-[SL03]-[PS_SOUNDS~N~~TheMediaShowDailyExpress]0 -
But "we hold all the" vaccine surelyFrancisUrquhart said:
And they don't exactly appear to be acting in a calm and collected manner. We have had EU folk claiming thar the UK is trying to start a war, that AZN are lying about everything from their contract to how good their vaccine is...RobD said:
All it now take to derail the UK's vaccine program is someone in Brussels to tick "no" rather than "yes" on a form.alex_ said:
At the moment i think the EU are just saying that this is about controls - recording when shipments leave the EU. They say they want to know what's leaving. They haven't actually banned exports yet i think.Flatlander said:
If they are seriously invoking article 16, that means that they absolutely are intending to stop exports to the UK at all costs. Otherwise, why do it? Ireland doesn't make anything.MaxPB said:Hold on a minute, does that mean that there will be EU checks on the island of Ireland to ensure no vaccines are being shipped to NI?
That strikes me as a complete disaster idea.
And having a US company that won't be able to send any of its products back to the US??
Have they thought this through?0 -
I think the issue, to the extent that it exists, is purely about UK people who have had first dose Pfizer, but whose second dose might be in jeopardy.MaxPB said:
Happily we have got Novavax delivering in 8-10 weeks. Any disruption will have a limited overall effect.RobD said:
All it now take to derail the UK's vaccine program is someone in Brussels to tick "no" rather than "yes" on a form.alex_ said:
At the moment i think the EU are just saying that this is about controls - recording when shipments leave the EU. They say they want to know what's leaving. They haven't actually banned exports yet i think.Flatlander said:
If they are seriously invoking article 16, that means that they absolutely are intending to stop exports to the UK at all costs. Otherwise, why do it? Ireland doesn't make anything.MaxPB said:Hold on a minute, does that mean that there will be EU checks on the island of Ireland to ensure no vaccines are being shipped to NI?
That strikes me as a complete disaster idea.
And having a US company that won't be able to send any of its products back to the US??
Have they thought this through?
We're not in any serious danger of being starved of jabs.0 -
I laughed when I saw it.Theuniondivvie said:
I heard that interview. He came away with the astonishing claim that no Express reader was racist.Roger said:Winner of the Flying Pigs Award
Daily Express Editor "We're never doing an anti immigrant story again"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000rlpl?xtor=CS8-1000-[Discovery_Cards]-[Multi_Site]-[SL03]-[PS_SOUNDS~N~~TheMediaShowDailyExpress]0 -
Talking of the French, I watched Netflix show Lupin the other night. It isn't the golden age of telly level, but wasn't bad. Passed a few hours.TheScreamingEagles said:My life long dream to ban French people from visiting the UK may soon happen if they don't vaccinate their population.
What a time to be alive.0 -
I'm not disagreeing. Just saying that at the moment the groundwork is being laid as a threat. They could be bluffing.Flatlander said:
If is about recording, why not just get Pfizer to do it? Why go to the extreme measure of invoking article 16?alex_ said:
At the moment i think the EU are just saying that this is about controls - recording when shipments leave the EU. They say they want to know what's leaving. They haven't actually banned exports yet i think.Flatlander said:
If they are seriously invoking article 16, that means that they absolutely are intending to stop exports to the UK at all costs. Otherwise, why do it? Ireland doesn't make anything.MaxPB said:Hold on a minute, does that mean that there will be EU checks on the island of Ireland to ensure no vaccines are being shipped to NI?
That strikes me as a complete disaster idea.
And having a US company that won't be able to send any of its products back to the US??
Have they thought this through?
Which also makes it look like this is specifically targetting the UK (which it is, obvs)0 -
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The problem is that Ireland is only due 1/27th of what the EU programme is so they won't have any volume to export here. We should just make an offer to Ireland to join our programme, it's clear that we have enough supply for them as well and it won't make a difference to the overall speed here. No quid quo pro, just a genuine offer. That way the EU won't need to export vaccines to Ireland and no checks on the border.alex_ said:Another interesting point is that the EU are claiming that individual countries are free to do their own thing. So we could come to a bilateral agreement with Ireland to provide some of our vaccine if they let us import (a far greater amount) from there?
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I don't think any of this will or should change anyone's mind on brexit (and I expect ongoing polling to bear that out). This is about some hilariously inept personalities and about aspects of the EU from which we were always semi-detached anyway. Had there been no brexit I would have counted it a catastrophic failure on the part of a UK PM not to have kept us out of the joint scheme anyway, and I think under many Conservative governments that would have happened.YBarddCwsc said:
It has to be Meeks for me.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That from Adam Boulton is astonishing considering how pro EU he isCarlottaVance said:
Just need Ian Dunt to condemn the EU to make it surreal
And of course Nicola
He must have insulted every Leaver on pb.com many, many times with his ridiculous assertions.
Meeks seems to be maintaining a "dignified silence" on Twitter. Or at least a silence.
Has there ever in history been an international crisis of this magnitude which has been so completely and utterly hilarious? I realise and regret that it will cost lives, but most international crises do that one way or another.0 -
Don't worry, just open it in Acrobat and you can read the entire thing.Leon said:0 -
I suspect you are right that they will, in the end, be bluffing. Who thought they would go this far though?alex_ said:
I'm not disagreeing. Just saying that at the moment the groundwork is being laid as a threat. They could be bluffing.Flatlander said:
If is about recording, why not just get Pfizer to do it? Why go to the extreme measure of invoking article 16?alex_ said:
At the moment i think the EU are just saying that this is about controls - recording when shipments leave the EU. They say they want to know what's leaving. They haven't actually banned exports yet i think.Flatlander said:
If they are seriously invoking article 16, that means that they absolutely are intending to stop exports to the UK at all costs. Otherwise, why do it? Ireland doesn't make anything.MaxPB said:Hold on a minute, does that mean that there will be EU checks on the island of Ireland to ensure no vaccines are being shipped to NI?
That strikes me as a complete disaster idea.
And having a US company that won't be able to send any of its products back to the US??
Have they thought this through?
Which also makes it look like this is specifically targetting the UK (which it is, obvs)
They've thrown away all sorts of good will for no gain.0 -
Daily Star does these days, which is part of the same group.TheScreamingEagles said:
Actually they are now owned by Reach who own the Mirror, I suspect The Express will be backing Labour soon.Roger said:Winner of the Flying Pigs Award
Daily Express Editor "We're never doing an anti immigrant story again"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000rlpl?xtor=CS8-1000-[Discovery_Cards]-[Multi_Site]-[SL03]-[PS_SOUNDS~N~~TheMediaShowDailyExpress]0 -
Pfizer will have to supply those doses from the US, it's a public health risk to not give people their second dose.alex_ said:
I think the issue, to the extent that it exists, is purely about UK people who have had first dose Pfizer, but whose second dose might be in jeopardy.MaxPB said:
Happily we have got Novavax delivering in 8-10 weeks. Any disruption will have a limited overall effect.RobD said:
All it now take to derail the UK's vaccine program is someone in Brussels to tick "no" rather than "yes" on a form.alex_ said:
At the moment i think the EU are just saying that this is about controls - recording when shipments leave the EU. They say they want to know what's leaving. They haven't actually banned exports yet i think.Flatlander said:
If they are seriously invoking article 16, that means that they absolutely are intending to stop exports to the UK at all costs. Otherwise, why do it? Ireland doesn't make anything.MaxPB said:Hold on a minute, does that mean that there will be EU checks on the island of Ireland to ensure no vaccines are being shipped to NI?
That strikes me as a complete disaster idea.
And having a US company that won't be able to send any of its products back to the US??
Have they thought this through?
We're not in any serious danger of being starved of jabs.0 -
I'm currently avoiding Netflix at the moment.FrancisUrquhart said:
Talking of the French, I watched Netflix show Lupin the other night. It isn't the golden age of telly level, but wasn't bad. Passed a few hours.TheScreamingEagles said:My life long dream to ban French people from visiting the UK may soon happen if they don't vaccinate their population.
What a time to be alive.
I still haven't recovered from watching Ride and Prejudice Bridgerton.3 -
Given the Common Travel Area and the cross-border traffic in Ireland, there's actually quite a strong self-interest case for the UK to help the Republic with vaccines once we get supply ramped up a bit more,5
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But if Pfizer transported 8m doses, say to the Irish border, would it count as an Irish export or a German export if it then crossed into NI?MaxPB said:
The problem is that Ireland is only due 1/27th of what the EU programme is so they won't have any volume to export here. We should just make an offer to Ireland to join our programme, it's clear that we have enough supply for them as well and it won't make a difference to the overall speed here. No quid quo pro, just a genuine offer. That way the EU won't need to export vaccines to Ireland and no checks on the border.alex_ said:Another interesting point is that the EU are claiming that individual countries are free to do their own thing. So we could come to a bilateral agreement with Ireland to provide some of our vaccine if they let us import (a far greater amount) from there?
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Yes, we should make Ireland the offer to simply join our programme, we could easily do 50k per day for Ireland. Within existing supplies.Richard_Nabavi said:Given the Common Travel Area and the cross-border traffic in Ireland, there's actually quite a strong self-interest case for the UK to help the Republic with vaccines once we get supply ramped up a bit more,
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They could - but the more they ratchet things up the harder it will be to back down.alex_ said:
I'm not disagreeing. Just saying that at the moment the groundwork is being laid as a threat. They could be bluffing.Flatlander said:
If is about recording, why not just get Pfizer to do it? Why go to the extreme measure of invoking article 16?alex_ said:
At the moment i think the EU are just saying that this is about controls - recording when shipments leave the EU. They say they want to know what's leaving. They haven't actually banned exports yet i think.Flatlander said:
If they are seriously invoking article 16, that means that they absolutely are intending to stop exports to the UK at all costs. Otherwise, why do it? Ireland doesn't make anything.MaxPB said:Hold on a minute, does that mean that there will be EU checks on the island of Ireland to ensure no vaccines are being shipped to NI?
That strikes me as a complete disaster idea.
And having a US company that won't be able to send any of its products back to the US??
Have they thought this through?
Which also makes it look like this is specifically targetting the UK (which it is, obvs)0 -
Is it? I don't know what the effectiveness of Pfizer as a single jab is. Bear in mind we are already ignoring Pfizer advice on second jabs. If we are due 20m jabs and choose to use all of them on first doses, they aren't presumably obliged to rush to supply us with 20m more just because we haven't chosen to only vaccinate 10m people.MaxPB said:
Pfizer will have to supply those doses from the US, it's a public health risk to not give people their second dose.alex_ said:
I think the issue, to the extent that it exists, is purely about UK people who have had first dose Pfizer, but whose second dose might be in jeopardy.MaxPB said:
Happily we have got Novavax delivering in 8-10 weeks. Any disruption will have a limited overall effect.RobD said:
All it now take to derail the UK's vaccine program is someone in Brussels to tick "no" rather than "yes" on a form.alex_ said:
At the moment i think the EU are just saying that this is about controls - recording when shipments leave the EU. They say they want to know what's leaving. They haven't actually banned exports yet i think.Flatlander said:
If they are seriously invoking article 16, that means that they absolutely are intending to stop exports to the UK at all costs. Otherwise, why do it? Ireland doesn't make anything.MaxPB said:Hold on a minute, does that mean that there will be EU checks on the island of Ireland to ensure no vaccines are being shipped to NI?
That strikes me as a complete disaster idea.
And having a US company that won't be able to send any of its products back to the US??
Have they thought this through?
We're not in any serious danger of being starved of jabs.0 -
The number of times I heard the word solidarity today suggests that won't go down all that well in Brussels. They'll send their enforcers round to take 26/27 of whatever the UK gives.Richard_Nabavi said:Given the Common Travel Area and the cross-border traffic in Ireland, there's actually quite a strong self-interest case for the UK to help the Republic with vaccines once we get supply ramped up a bit more,
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You're playing a game of chess when your opponent ostentatiously takes out a revolver and starts putting bullets in the chamber. Obviously it doesn't affect the position on the board.Flatlander said:
I suspect you are right that they will, in the end, be bluffing. Who thought they would go this far though?alex_ said:
I'm not disagreeing. Just saying that at the moment the groundwork is being laid as a threat. They could be bluffing.Flatlander said:
If is about recording, why not just get Pfizer to do it? Why go to the extreme measure of invoking article 16?alex_ said:
At the moment i think the EU are just saying that this is about controls - recording when shipments leave the EU. They say they want to know what's leaving. They haven't actually banned exports yet i think.Flatlander said:
If they are seriously invoking article 16, that means that they absolutely are intending to stop exports to the UK at all costs. Otherwise, why do it? Ireland doesn't make anything.MaxPB said:Hold on a minute, does that mean that there will be EU checks on the island of Ireland to ensure no vaccines are being shipped to NI?
That strikes me as a complete disaster idea.
And having a US company that won't be able to send any of its products back to the US??
Have they thought this through?
Which also makes it look like this is specifically targetting the UK (which it is, obvs)
They've thrown away all sorts of good will for no gain.0 -
Belgian export under rules of origin and subject to this export mechanism.alex_ said:
But if Pfizer transported 8m doses, say to the Irish border, would it count as an Irish export or a German export if it then crossed into NI?MaxPB said:
The problem is that Ireland is only due 1/27th of what the EU programme is so they won't have any volume to export here. We should just make an offer to Ireland to join our programme, it's clear that we have enough supply for them as well and it won't make a difference to the overall speed here. No quid quo pro, just a genuine offer. That way the EU won't need to export vaccines to Ireland and no checks on the border.alex_ said:Another interesting point is that the EU are claiming that individual countries are free to do their own thing. So we could come to a bilateral agreement with Ireland to provide some of our vaccine if they let us import (a far greater amount) from there?
0 -
Yes, quite similar to the GSK/Sanofi spike-protein/adjuvant vaccine (which for whatever reason proved less effective).TimT said:
The heart of Novavax's technology is not the S protein fragment used (it's a protein vaccine), but the nanoparticle used as an adjuvant (Matrix-M is their trademarked name for it) which is based on saponin, a glycoside extracted from bark of the Soapbark Tree (Quillaja saponaria Molina), grown at certain latitudes in Chile.Nigelb said:
I posted a link a few days back from someone who had listed the various components listed for the respective vaccines, and there were significant differences between Pfizer and Moderna.rcs1000 said:
Is it done very differently to CureVac and Pfizer?Nigelb said:
Maybe - but I suspect that will be quite difficult.rcs1000 said:
There's actually a lot of this going on right now, and this is another reason to get increasingly comfortable about vaccine supply going forward.Gallowgate said:
Sanofi have already agreed to produce the Pfizer jab under license I believe.Luckyguy1983 said:So how do we increase vacc. supply so there is genuinely more now (or soon) rather than arguing over the same pie?
One possibility I can spot is for Sanofi to abandon their vaccine attempt (which I assume they are keeping manufacturing capacity aside for) and turn their manufacturing over to one of the other vaccines - Valneva looks the likeliest, as the French will never agree to AZN, and Pfizer has big issues concerning usability.
EDIT: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-27/sanofi-to-make-millions-of-biontech-pfizer-s-covid-vaccine-doses
So: Bayer has already started manufacturing on behalf of CureVac, and both Novartis and Sanofi will be making the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. The Serum Institute of India is making both the AZN and Novavax vaccines.
I haven't yet seen any announcements from other people producing Moderna. But I presume they're in negotiations with people.
Moderna has what is for them seriously valuable IP in terms of formulating the mRNA in lipid nanoparticles for delivery, and some of that is likely to be commercial secrets rather than patentable processes. Getting them to share might take some effort.
The details of how it's actually manufactured are obviously not public, but the characteristics of the lipid blob which encapsulates the active mRNA are important both for the stability of the molecule (which otherwise would degrade very rapidly), and getting it into cells once injected, so that it can do its stuff.
Given they've worked on this for a decade or more, I think we can guess that it is important and commercially very valuable.
Scroll down the page a bit for info: https://www.novavax.com/our-unique-technology#matrix-m-adjuvant-technology0 -
I gave up halfway through Episode 2TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm currently avoiding Netflix at the moment.FrancisUrquhart said:
Talking of the French, I watched Netflix show Lupin the other night. It isn't the golden age of telly level, but wasn't bad. Passed a few hours.TheScreamingEagles said:My life long dream to ban French people from visiting the UK may soon happen if they don't vaccinate their population.
What a time to be alive.
I still haven't recovered from watching Ride and Prejudice Bridgerton.0 -
Lupin is much tamer and en Francais...kinda Oceans Eleven / Hustle with a French Idris Elba.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm currently avoiding Netflix at the moment.FrancisUrquhart said:
Talking of the French, I watched Netflix show Lupin the other night. It isn't the golden age of telly level, but wasn't bad. Passed a few hours.TheScreamingEagles said:My life long dream to ban French people from visiting the UK may soon happen if they don't vaccinate their population.
What a time to be alive.
I still haven't recovered from watching Ride and Prejudice Bridgerton.1 -
Fashoda?IshmaelZ said:
I don't think any of this will or should change anyone's mind on brexit (and I expect ongoing polling to bear that out). This is about some hilariously inept personalities and about aspects of the EU from which we were always semi-detached anyway. Had there been no brexit I would have counted it a catastrophic failure on the part of a UK PM not to have kept us out of the joint scheme anyway, and I think under many Conservative governments that would have happened.YBarddCwsc said:
It has to be Meeks for me.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That from Adam Boulton is astonishing considering how pro EU he isCarlottaVance said:
Just need Ian Dunt to condemn the EU to make it surreal
And of course Nicola
He must have insulted every Leaver on pb.com many, many times with his ridiculous assertions.
Meeks seems to be maintaining a "dignified silence" on Twitter. Or at least a silence.
Has there ever in history been an international crisis of this magnitude which has been so completely and utterly hilarious? I realise and regret that it will cost lives, but most international crises do that one way or another.0 -
We absolutely should - as I mentioned a few days ago.Richard_Nabavi said:Given the Common Travel Area and the cross-border traffic in Ireland, there's actually quite a strong self-interest case for the UK to help the Republic with vaccines once we get supply ramped up a bit more,
There are also of course historical instances where lots of people in Ireland died as a result of British actions, and whilst this wouldn't make up for that, it would be extremely fitting.
But the British taxpayers who footed this bill (or will foot it in coming decades) must come first.
1 -
So a bunch of people are saying as how this is it for remain, etc. The thing is that there were always two, not entirely compatible, reasons to go with remain.
One, the Culturally European one, about how Europe is the centre of civilisation, we should all be friends, we want the freedom to live and work in the EU and all live happily together. This dominated the media debate, and of the people I know who were most gutted by the vote, this was their view; which is perhaps why it did.
The other view is realpolitik. The EU is a giant power bloc. Its on our doorstep. As members, as the 2nd biggest country inside, we sat in its highest councils and had massive influence - not always decisive, but big influence. This wasn't mentioned much in the media except by a few oldies like Michael Heseltine. But it was the foundation of our foreign policy for decades.
Now we're out. And when you're a medium sized country outside a big power bloc, they don't always play nice.
Should the EU be making a vaccine trade war? No, absolutely not This is short sighted and morally repugnant. . But discredit remain? No, this is exactly why I voted remain.
2 -
Jones said his son had told him he felt sick when he'd heard his dad was becoming the Express editor. It transpired that his son attends Eton so it wasn't entirely clear whether it was ideological or just shame at pops punting news for the plebs.Roger said:
I laughed when I saw it.Theuniondivvie said:
I heard that interview. He came away with the astonishing claim that no Express reader was racist.Roger said:Winner of the Flying Pigs Award
Daily Express Editor "We're never doing an anti immigrant story again"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000rlpl?xtor=CS8-1000-[Discovery_Cards]-[Multi_Site]-[SL03]-[PS_SOUNDS~N~~TheMediaShowDailyExpress]0 -
And taken a massive dump on table for good measure.Alphabet_Soup said:
You're playing a game of chess when your opponent ostentatiously takes out a revolver and starts putting bullets in the chamber. Obviously it doesn't affect the position on the board.Flatlander said:
I suspect you are right that they will, in the end, be bluffing. Who thought they would go this far though?alex_ said:
I'm not disagreeing. Just saying that at the moment the groundwork is being laid as a threat. They could be bluffing.Flatlander said:
If is about recording, why not just get Pfizer to do it? Why go to the extreme measure of invoking article 16?alex_ said:
At the moment i think the EU are just saying that this is about controls - recording when shipments leave the EU. They say they want to know what's leaving. They haven't actually banned exports yet i think.Flatlander said:
If they are seriously invoking article 16, that means that they absolutely are intending to stop exports to the UK at all costs. Otherwise, why do it? Ireland doesn't make anything.MaxPB said:Hold on a minute, does that mean that there will be EU checks on the island of Ireland to ensure no vaccines are being shipped to NI?
That strikes me as a complete disaster idea.
And having a US company that won't be able to send any of its products back to the US??
Have they thought this through?
Which also makes it look like this is specifically targetting the UK (which it is, obvs)
They've thrown away all sorts of good will for no gain.1 -
It seems pretty obvious that the EU is bothCarlottaVance said:
a) panicking because they are in a bad situation with their vaccine supply; and
b) have bought a bit too much into their own rhetoric about the power of the bloc, and therefore how much they can push others and get away with it.
Being a big bloc does mean you can push others around, but it's not always a good idea.1 -
We're still going to give them, just after a delayed timetable. We're getting 40m doses and once we hit 20m first doses will stop.alex_ said:
Is it? I don't know what the effectiveness of Pfizer as a single jab is. Bear in mind we are already ignoring Pfizer advice on second jabs. If we are due 20m jabs and choose to use all of them on first doses, they aren't presumably obliged to rush to supply us with 20m more just because we haven't chosen to only vaccinate 10m people.MaxPB said:
Pfizer will have to supply those doses from the US, it's a public health risk to not give people their second dose.alex_ said:
I think the issue, to the extent that it exists, is purely about UK people who have had first dose Pfizer, but whose second dose might be in jeopardy.MaxPB said:
Happily we have got Novavax delivering in 8-10 weeks. Any disruption will have a limited overall effect.RobD said:
All it now take to derail the UK's vaccine program is someone in Brussels to tick "no" rather than "yes" on a form.alex_ said:
At the moment i think the EU are just saying that this is about controls - recording when shipments leave the EU. They say they want to know what's leaving. They haven't actually banned exports yet i think.Flatlander said:
If they are seriously invoking article 16, that means that they absolutely are intending to stop exports to the UK at all costs. Otherwise, why do it? Ireland doesn't make anything.MaxPB said:Hold on a minute, does that mean that there will be EU checks on the island of Ireland to ensure no vaccines are being shipped to NI?
That strikes me as a complete disaster idea.
And having a US company that won't be able to send any of its products back to the US??
Have they thought this through?
We're not in any serious danger of being starved of jabs.0 -
And that will make them look worse or better?RobD said:
The number of times I heard the word solidarity today suggests that won't go down all that well in Brussels. They'll send their enforcers round to take 26/27 of whatever the UK gives.Richard_Nabavi said:Given the Common Travel Area and the cross-border traffic in Ireland, there's actually quite a strong self-interest case for the UK to help the Republic with vaccines once we get supply ramped up a bit more,
0 -
https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1355228830517112833?s=20
But they're not going to get more vaccines.....3 -
No problem, we can offer to jab people in NI. We'll have the centres all set up, after all.RobD said:
The number of times I heard the word solidarity today suggests that won't go down all that well in Brussels. They'll send their enforcers round to take 26/27 of whatever the UK gives.Richard_Nabavi said:Given the Common Travel Area and the cross-border traffic in Ireland, there's actually quite a strong self-interest case for the UK to help the Republic with vaccines once we get supply ramped up a bit more,
4 -
I'm a committed remainer, but it might be the best time to sail a couple of Aircraft Carriers 12 miles off the coast of Europe.Carnyx said:
Fashoda?IshmaelZ said:
I don't think any of this will or should change anyone's mind on brexit (and I expect ongoing polling to bear that out). This is about some hilariously inept personalities and about aspects of the EU from which we were always semi-detached anyway. Had there been no brexit I would have counted it a catastrophic failure on the part of a UK PM not to have kept us out of the joint scheme anyway, and I think under many Conservative governments that would have happened.YBarddCwsc said:
It has to be Meeks for me.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That from Adam Boulton is astonishing considering how pro EU he isCarlottaVance said:
Just need Ian Dunt to condemn the EU to make it surreal
And of course Nicola
He must have insulted every Leaver on pb.com many, many times with his ridiculous assertions.
Meeks seems to be maintaining a "dignified silence" on Twitter. Or at least a silence.
Has there ever in history been an international crisis of this magnitude which has been so completely and utterly hilarious? I realise and regret that it will cost lives, but most international crises do that one way or another.1 -
I don't think in the long term it will really affect things one way or another, but it is highlighting one of the downsides, given the pressurising they do to stop members going their own way, and removes its ability to pretend it is a beacon of rationality and good governance. It doesn't diminish the principle of the institution, but it does tarnish its reality a bit - and they clearly need to be better at self evaluating when something goes wrong.ajb said:So a bunch of people are saying as how this is it for remain, etc. The thing is that there were always two, not entirely compatible, reasons to go with remain.
One, the Culturally European one, about how Europe is the centre of civilisation, we should all be friends, we want the freedom to live and work in the EU and all live happily together. This dominated the media debate, and of the people I know who were most gutted by the vote, this was their view; which is perhaps why it did.
The other view is realpolitik. The EU is a giant power bloc. Its on our doorstep. As members, as the 2nd biggest country inside, we sat in its highest councils and had massive influence - not always decisive, but big influence. This wasn't mentioned much in the media except by a few oldies like Michael Heseltine. But it was the foundation of our foreign policy for decades.
Now we're out. And when you're a medium sized country outside a big power bloc, they don't always play nice.
Should the EU be making a vaccine trade war? No, absolutely not This is short sighted and morally repugnant. . But discredit remain? No, this is exactly why I voted remain.0 -
You voted remain because you were scared the EU would bully us?ajb said:So a bunch of people are saying as how this is it for remain, etc. The thing is that there were always two, not entirely compatible, reasons to go with remain.
One, the Culturally European one, about how Europe is the centre of civilisation, we should all be friends, we want the freedom to live and work in the EU and all live happily together. This dominated the media debate, and of the people I know who were most gutted by the vote, this was their view; which is perhaps why it did.
The other view is realpolitik. The EU is a giant power bloc. Its on our doorstep. As members, as the 2nd biggest country inside, we sat in its highest councils and had massive influence - not always decisive, but big influence. This wasn't mentioned much in the media except by a few oldies like Michael Heseltine. But it was the foundation of our foreign policy for decades.
Now we're out. And when you're a medium sized country outside a big power bloc, they don't always play nice.
Should the EU be making a vaccine trade war? No, absolutely not This is short sighted and morally repugnant. . But discredit remain? No, this is exactly why I voted remain.
1 -
Massive influence? we could not even stop Junker ffs. We were semi detached and mostly ignored. Gotta be all the way in or all the way out.ajb said:So a bunch of people are saying as how this is it for remain, etc. The thing is that there were always two, not entirely compatible, reasons to go with remain.
One, the Culturally European one, about how Europe is the centre of civilisation, we should all be friends, we want the freedom to live and work in the EU and all live happily together. This dominated the media debate, and of the people I know who were most gutted by the vote, this was their view; which is perhaps why it did.
The other view is realpolitik. The EU is a giant power bloc. Its on our doorstep. As members, as the 2nd biggest country inside, we sat in its highest councils and had massive influence - not always decisive, but big influence. This wasn't mentioned much in the media except by a few oldies like Michael Heseltine. But it was the foundation of our foreign policy for decades.
Now we're out. And when you're a medium sized country outside a big power bloc, they don't always play nice.
Should the EU be making a vaccine trade war? No, absolutely not This is short sighted and morally repugnant. . But discredit remain? No, this is exactly why I voted remain.0 -
Well, I suppose we could try option 2, and hope they're having a hissy fit/bluffing.MaxPB said:
It's surely option 2 coupled with an offer to integrate Ireland into the highly successful UK vaccine programme "to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland". It is the only way out of this as bringing us all back from the brink.CarlottaVance said:
Of course, if the Irish stick with the EU vaccine program (to avoid pissing the other 26 off) then we could be on to option 3 - followed, in due course, by sealing the Irish border on sanitary grounds.
Like I said earlier, the Commission has not thought any of this through at all.0 -
Indeed, it's not a big place.Richard_Nabavi said:
No problem, we can offer to jab people in NI. We'll have the centres all set up, after all.RobD said:
The number of times I heard the word solidarity today suggests that won't go down all that well in Brussels. They'll send their enforcers round to take 26/27 of whatever the UK gives.Richard_Nabavi said:Given the Common Travel Area and the cross-border traffic in Ireland, there's actually quite a strong self-interest case for the UK to help the Republic with vaccines once we get supply ramped up a bit more,
0 -
-
I think Ursula von der Leyen is badly out of her depth. People laughed about Juncker but he was a much more serious politician in comparison.Leon said:2 -
Jabs no dabs.Luckyguy1983 said:
Jabs not crabs would seem more apposite.CarlottaVance said:0 -
It’s entertaining, but sadly, recent events have probably put paid to the Lupin / Sherlock Holmes mashup that Maurice Leblanc came up with.FrancisUrquhart said:
Lupin is much tamer and en Francais...kinda Oceans Eleven / Hustle with a French Idris Elba.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm currently avoiding Netflix at the moment.FrancisUrquhart said:
Talking of the French, I watched Netflix show Lupin the other night. It isn't the golden age of telly level, but wasn't bad. Passed a few hours.TheScreamingEagles said:My life long dream to ban French people from visiting the UK may soon happen if they don't vaccinate their population.
What a time to be alive.
I still haven't recovered from watching Ride and Prejudice Bridgerton.0 -
Good luck with that the way the PoW needs a new battery or soldered connection or whatever makes the propellers go round.Fenman said:
I'm a committed remainer, but it might be the best time to sail a couple of Aircraft Carriers 12 miles off the coast of Europe.Carnyx said:
Fashoda?IshmaelZ said:
I don't think any of this will or should change anyone's mind on brexit (and I expect ongoing polling to bear that out). This is about some hilariously inept personalities and about aspects of the EU from which we were always semi-detached anyway. Had there been no brexit I would have counted it a catastrophic failure on the part of a UK PM not to have kept us out of the joint scheme anyway, and I think under many Conservative governments that would have happened.YBarddCwsc said:
It has to be Meeks for me.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That from Adam Boulton is astonishing considering how pro EU he isCarlottaVance said:
Just need Ian Dunt to condemn the EU to make it surreal
And of course Nicola
He must have insulted every Leaver on pb.com many, many times with his ridiculous assertions.
Meeks seems to be maintaining a "dignified silence" on Twitter. Or at least a silence.
Has there ever in history been an international crisis of this magnitude which has been so completely and utterly hilarious? I realise and regret that it will cost lives, but most international crises do that one way or another.
AIUI, all Kitchener did with Marchand was be polite and firm and stuff him full of whisky, which the latter must have enjoyed after walking across the Sahara the long way round. But K. did have a few gunboats on the Nile.0 -
-
They are basically saying it's better to be the bully than the person being bullied.Razedabode said:
You voted remain because you were scared the EU would bully us?ajb said:So a bunch of people are saying as how this is it for remain, etc. The thing is that there were always two, not entirely compatible, reasons to go with remain.
One, the Culturally European one, about how Europe is the centre of civilisation, we should all be friends, we want the freedom to live and work in the EU and all live happily together. This dominated the media debate, and of the people I know who were most gutted by the vote, this was their view; which is perhaps why it did.
The other view is realpolitik. The EU is a giant power bloc. Its on our doorstep. As members, as the 2nd biggest country inside, we sat in its highest councils and had massive influence - not always decisive, but big influence. This wasn't mentioned much in the media except by a few oldies like Michael Heseltine. But it was the foundation of our foreign policy for decades.
Now we're out. And when you're a medium sized country outside a big power bloc, they don't always play nice.
Should the EU be making a vaccine trade war? No, absolutely not This is short sighted and morally repugnant. . But discredit remain? No, this is exactly why I voted remain.1 -
If we're going to vaccinate the Republic of Ireland then we should insist they take Northern Ireland as the price.0
-
You voted for the insane arrangement....MaxPB said:
Giving 1.4m doses to the Republic isn't a win for anyone other than common sense to prevent a hard border on the island. The idea just seems mental to me because there will have to be a border checking to see if vaccine doses are being taken into NI.Casino_Royale said:
We will give them to them (in UK Aid boxes) when we're good and ready, and not before.MaxPB said:
Tbh, we should give them 2m AZ doses over the next few weeks so they can fully jab their over 70s. It's a small sacrifice for us and it prevents any kind of risk of border checks.Floater said:
Not to the EU vaccination procurement team......MaxPB said:
Can't be more than 1m, that's a small number.alex_ said:
And how many over 70s?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
6.5 million people - we've got enough on order...alex_ said:
Ireland isn't actually a very big country. We could probably do it.Razedabode said:
At least that’s clear as day. I feel sorry for Ireland - the country with the most to lose in the EU. Let’s give them some of our vaccinesRobD said:
Was clear from the start they were just using the border for their own political interest. They don't give two hoots about the people there.dr_spyn said:What a carve up.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1355212119277522945
EU fall into their own Irish bear trap.
They can't be seen to have won anything from this whatsoever.0 -
My dad voted remain for that reason - he said they'd screw us if we left so we should stay. Anecdotally helpful reminder that not everyone voted Leave or Remain for the most obvious of reasons.Razedabode said:
You voted remain because you were scared the EU would bully us?ajb said:So a bunch of people are saying as how this is it for remain, etc. The thing is that there were always two, not entirely compatible, reasons to go with remain.
One, the Culturally European one, about how Europe is the centre of civilisation, we should all be friends, we want the freedom to live and work in the EU and all live happily together. This dominated the media debate, and of the people I know who were most gutted by the vote, this was their view; which is perhaps why it did.
The other view is realpolitik. The EU is a giant power bloc. Its on our doorstep. As members, as the 2nd biggest country inside, we sat in its highest councils and had massive influence - not always decisive, but big influence. This wasn't mentioned much in the media except by a few oldies like Michael Heseltine. But it was the foundation of our foreign policy for decades.
Now we're out. And when you're a medium sized country outside a big power bloc, they don't always play nice.
Should the EU be making a vaccine trade war? No, absolutely not This is short sighted and morally repugnant. . But discredit remain? No, this is exactly why I voted remain.0 -
The insane part is the EU's doing.Roger said:
You voted for the insane arrangement....MaxPB said:
Giving 1.4m doses to the Republic isn't a win for anyone other than common sense to prevent a hard border on the island. The idea just seems mental to me because there will have to be a border checking to see if vaccine doses are being taken into NI.Casino_Royale said:
We will give them to them (in UK Aid boxes) when we're good and ready, and not before.MaxPB said:
Tbh, we should give them 2m AZ doses over the next few weeks so they can fully jab their over 70s. It's a small sacrifice for us and it prevents any kind of risk of border checks.Floater said:
Not to the EU vaccination procurement team......MaxPB said:
Can't be more than 1m, that's a small number.alex_ said:
And how many over 70s?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
6.5 million people - we've got enough on order...alex_ said:
Ireland isn't actually a very big country. We could probably do it.Razedabode said:
At least that’s clear as day. I feel sorry for Ireland - the country with the most to lose in the EU. Let’s give them some of our vaccinesRobD said:
Was clear from the start they were just using the border for their own political interest. They don't give two hoots about the people there.dr_spyn said:What a carve up.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1355212119277522945
EU fall into their own Irish bear trap.
They can't be seen to have won anything from this whatsoever.1 -
I assume he was told to bugger off and mind his own business?CarlottaVance said:1 -
Juncker was at least a former Prime Minister.williamglenn said:
I think Ursula von der Leyen is badly out of her depth. People laughed about Juncker but he was a much more serious politician in comparison.Leon said:
I don't know how much truth there is in this because I don't follow German politics, but it has been reported that von der Leyen, when German Defence Minister, became embroiled in a number of procurement scandals...0 -
They will, Eagles, they will.TheScreamingEagles said:If we're going to vaccinate the Republic of Ireland then we should they take Northern Ireland as the price.
0 -
Unity and Solidarity™CarlottaVance said:1 -
China is a huge power and can push people around. Would I want the UK to be "a part of China"?ajb said:So a bunch of people are saying as how this is it for remain, etc. The thing is that there were always two, not entirely compatible, reasons to go with remain.
One, the Culturally European one, about how Europe is the centre of civilisation, we should all be friends, we want the freedom to live and work in the EU and all live happily together. This dominated the media debate, and of the people I know who were most gutted by the vote, this was their view; which is perhaps why it did.
The other view is realpolitik. The EU is a giant power bloc. Its on our doorstep. As members, as the 2nd biggest country inside, we sat in its highest councils and had massive influence - not always decisive, but big influence. This wasn't mentioned much in the media except by a few oldies like Michael Heseltine. But it was the foundation of our foreign policy for decades.
Now we're out. And when you're a medium sized country outside a big power bloc, they don't always play nice.
Should the EU be making a vaccine trade war? No, absolutely not This is short sighted and morally repugnant. . But discredit remain? No, this is exactly why I voted remain.
No.
Note how polling on EU membership in near-EU states like Switzerland and Norway is massively against ever joining.
"A 2018 survey of public opinion in Switzerland found only 3% considered that joining the EU was a feasible option."
https://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/norway.4n5#
"Anti-EU sentiment strong in Norway: poll"
If it's that great being in the EU you'd think these countries would want to join. They definitely do not2 -
You voted for vaccine snatching.Roger said:
You voted for the insane arrangement....MaxPB said:
Giving 1.4m doses to the Republic isn't a win for anyone other than common sense to prevent a hard border on the island. The idea just seems mental to me because there will have to be a border checking to see if vaccine doses are being taken into NI.Casino_Royale said:
We will give them to them (in UK Aid boxes) when we're good and ready, and not before.MaxPB said:
Tbh, we should give them 2m AZ doses over the next few weeks so they can fully jab their over 70s. It's a small sacrifice for us and it prevents any kind of risk of border checks.Floater said:
Not to the EU vaccination procurement team......MaxPB said:
Can't be more than 1m, that's a small number.alex_ said:
And how many over 70s?AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
6.5 million people - we've got enough on order...alex_ said:
Ireland isn't actually a very big country. We could probably do it.Razedabode said:
At least that’s clear as day. I feel sorry for Ireland - the country with the most to lose in the EU. Let’s give them some of our vaccinesRobD said:
Was clear from the start they were just using the border for their own political interest. They don't give two hoots about the people there.dr_spyn said:What a carve up.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1355212119277522945
EU fall into their own Irish bear trap.
They can't be seen to have won anything from this whatsoever.2 -
Lol. I've actually been an arbiter at a chess congress and seen boards thrown over but fortunately no guns as yet.FrancisUrquhart said:
And taken a massive dump on table for good measure.Alphabet_Soup said:
You're playing a game of chess when your opponent ostentatiously takes out a revolver and starts putting bullets in the chamber. Obviously it doesn't affect the position on the board.Flatlander said:
I suspect you are right that they will, in the end, be bluffing. Who thought they would go this far though?alex_ said:
I'm not disagreeing. Just saying that at the moment the groundwork is being laid as a threat. They could be bluffing.Flatlander said:
If is about recording, why not just get Pfizer to do it? Why go to the extreme measure of invoking article 16?alex_ said:
At the moment i think the EU are just saying that this is about controls - recording when shipments leave the EU. They say they want to know what's leaving. They haven't actually banned exports yet i think.Flatlander said:
If they are seriously invoking article 16, that means that they absolutely are intending to stop exports to the UK at all costs. Otherwise, why do it? Ireland doesn't make anything.MaxPB said:Hold on a minute, does that mean that there will be EU checks on the island of Ireland to ensure no vaccines are being shipped to NI?
That strikes me as a complete disaster idea.
And having a US company that won't be able to send any of its products back to the US??
Have they thought this through?
Which also makes it look like this is specifically targetting the UK (which it is, obvs)
They've thrown away all sorts of good will for no gain.1
