In spite of the latest EU dealings those who think Brexit was wrong still have clear 8% lead with Yo
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Heart of stone and all that ...
https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1355179684091330566
Translation
From the published contract between the EU Commission and #AstraZeneca , I cannot conclude that the Commission has the contract and therefore the right on its side. Quite the contrary.1 -
Jean-Claude Juncker would never have got the EU into this mess.
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It's an instrument that gives them the power to restrict vaccine exports. Why would they pass such legislation if they weren't seriously considering using it?noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_3081 -
Marina Hyde great again today, something to tickle everyone’s viewpoint on the vaccine farrago:
‘There is a true coach-crash quality to the EU’s reaction to being outfoxed by the UK on vaccine procurement. The commission’s pram has been dramatically emptied of all its toys. It’s like watching an endlessly patient and mild-mannered social studies teacher finally lose it and head-butt a pupil for beating him in a quiz...’
And:
‘After the past few years around the globe, it’s such a tribute to the human spirit that we can still discover new types of nationalism. The latest variant is vaccine nationalism, which – like all the other nationalisms – is grim and ends badly... For now, thank heavens for the quiet dignity of Her Majesty’s press, as Britain’s front pages have spent much of the week blaring out observations such as “ANOTHER SHOT IN THE ARM FOR BRITAIN”, “EU WHAT?”, “UNION VACC”, and “NO, EU CAN’T HAVE OUR JABS”. At the current rate of triumphalism, we’re only days off “WE HOPE EU ALL DIE OF BUREAUCRACY” and “FINE, WE’LL GIVE YOU OUR VACCINE SCRAPS BUT WE’RE ANNEXING FRANCE AS A HOLIDAY HOME”.‘
Then elegantly sashaying to:
‘Consider New Forest West MP Desmond Swayne, who really is the opposite of a vaccine success story. He’s the opposite of cerebral success story, all told, having closed 2019 defending his use of blackface, and ended 2020 claiming to an influential anti-lockdown and anti-vaxx group that NHS Covid figures “appear to have been manipulated”. ICUs were “actually operating at typical occupation levels for the time of year”, Desmond bullshitted, and the UK was “bouncing round at the typical level of deaths for the time of year”. The sort of claim that typically sparks two questions. 1. Have you recently suffered a blunt-force head trauma? 2. Would you like to?’
Since Charlie Brooker stopped writing columns I think she’s my fave columnist.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/29/nationalism-vaccine-mutation-uk-eu4 -
No they're saying since exports from EU to NI could end up in the UK, the export ban extends to NI too.MaxPB said:
Are they really suggesting that the UK not export vaccines to Northern Ireland? I'm not sure I understand it properly.Richard_Nabavi said:deleted, duplicate
So much for NI having an open border with Ireland. 🤔
Oh and this isn't about targeting Britain. But they're banning NI to ensure that's not a backdoor to Britain.0 -
But Pfizer has shortages in production right now. What happens if some Eurocrat disagrees with them over how much they are sending to the UK?noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_3080 -
Actually I agreewilliamglenn said:Jean-Claude Juncker would never have got the EU into this mess.
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It explicitly does not give them the power to stop vaccines procured by the UK being exported, it simply requires notification. To stop it being exported they would have to show in a court that the vaccine was procured by the EU not the UK, which if its anything like the AZ contract, they wont be able to do.RobD said:
It's an instrument that gives them the power to restrict vaccine exports. Why would they pass such legislation if they weren't seriously considering using it?noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_3080 -
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No, other way round I think. Supplies from ROI or elsewhere in EU going to NI will be considered exports notwithstanding our trade deal kept NI much closer to the single market.MaxPB said:
Are they really suggesting that the UK not export vaccines to Northern Ireland? I'm not sure I understand it properly.Richard_Nabavi said:deleted, duplicate
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The tragic thing is that the people the EU have done most damage to in this affair is their own citizens, and God knows they don't deserve to be in this mess without enough vaccine.MarqueeMark said:
We should just go in and gazzump them. For shits and giggles.eek said:
Novavax being one that the EU are only now in the process of negotiating contracts for.MaxPB said:
Especially given that we've got Novavax coming and the EU can't block Moderna as it's made in Switzerland.Richard_Nabavi said:I wonder when the penny will drop in Berlaymont that all this will look even more stupid in a few weeks' time when the UK has continued to roll out the jabs and the EU's programme has gone backwards?
I don't understand what the hell is going on in Brussels. They've all taken leave of their senses.7 -
You’d have had money on us activating the protocol first (and being hammered for it). Now they’ve surrendered all that moral high ground. It’s just a thing we each do now. What on earth is their strategy?Philip_Thompson said:
No they're saying since exports from EU to NI could end up in the UK, the export ban extends to NI too.MaxPB said:
Are they really suggesting that the UK not export vaccines to Northern Ireland? I'm not sure I understand it properly.Richard_Nabavi said:deleted, duplicate
So much for NI having an open border with Ireland. 🤔
Oh and this isn't about targeting Britain. But they're banning NI to ensure that's not a backdoor to Britain.
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It isn't just for notification, exporters now need permission to export:noneoftheabove said:
It explicitly does not give them the power to stop vaccines procured by the UK being exported, it simply requires notification. To stop it being exported they would have to show in a court that the vaccine was procured by the EU not the UK, which if its anything like the AZ contract, they wont be able to do.RobD said:
It's an instrument that gives them the power to restrict vaccine exports. Why would they pass such legislation if they weren't seriously considering using it?noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
These exports will be subject to an early notification and authorisation before they are effectively shipped outside the EU.1 -
He doesn't have diplomatic immunity, does he? So we can just arrest him.TrèsDifficile said:That EU ambassador I said we should speak to, we should expel him.
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This is my understanding too. It creates the framework for an export ban but is not, as we speak, an export ban, defining this to be a ban on exports. And I do hope it doesn't evolve in that direction. It would be absolutely NOT what the doctor ordered as regards fighting this global pandemic.noneoftheabove said:
It is the notification system, not the ban.rcs1000 said:I was wrong: it appears the EU is being stupid enough to actually restrict exports.
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No, they are saying that they are excluding NI from the normal rule that NI/EU trade is not restricted (presumably because they think perfidious Albion would try to smuggle vaccines pinched from the EU allocation through NI). Bonkers again, and a very bad precedent for the NI protocol. It was supposed to be Boris who'd try to wriggle out of it, not the EU.MaxPB said:
Are they really suggesting that the UK not export vaccines to Northern Ireland? I'm not sure I understand it properly.Richard_Nabavi said:deleted, duplicate
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This vaccine debacle has put the case for European integration back two decades.
It is an absolute shambles and an embarrassment.
Simply no point us Remainers pretending otherwise.6 -
What the fuck are the EU doing?!?2
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60% alcohol saturation kills the virus doesn’t it?...williamglenn said:Jean-Claude Juncker would never have got the EU into this mess.
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No, no, noFishing said:
He doesn't have diplomatic immunity, does he? So we can just arrest him.TrèsDifficile said:That EU ambassador I said we should speak to, we should expel him.
Paging Morris Dancer - We need the trebuchet.0 -
I don't think even they know anymore. The beast is uncontrollable and at best just individuals acting with no authority and no accountability.Gallowgate said:What the fuck are the EU doing?!?
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CarlottaVance said:
Diplomatic, under the circs.....
https://twitter.com/MattHancock/status/1355189452029759497?s=20
But a nice subtle dig all the sameCarlottaVance said:Diplomatic, under the circs.....
https://twitter.com/MattHancock/status/1355189452029759497?s=201 -
Potentially completely sunk, but it very much depends on how crazy the EU goes. But speculation about that would be jumping the gun. As I said a little earlier, so far it's all hot air and paper shuffling. They haven't done anything substantive at all yet.Big_G_NorthWales said:I cannot recall a single event uniting this forum in a way the EU trashing their brand has done
It is remarkable and where it leaves Nicola Sturgeon and her devotion to this discredited bunch of politicians and bureaucrats is anyone guess2 -
Having a collective mental breakdown / hissy fit in real time?Gallowgate said:What the fuck are the EU doing?!?
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But they could say that the vaccine makes up part of the EU's outstanding order.noneoftheabove said:
It explicitly does not give them the power to stop vaccines procured by the UK being exported, it simply requires notification. To stop it being exported they would have to show in a court that the vaccine was procured by the EU not the UK, which if its anything like the AZ contract, they wont be able to do.RobD said:
It's an instrument that gives them the power to restrict vaccine exports. Why would they pass such legislation if they weren't seriously considering using it?noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_3081 -
Yes, that's what the EU are trying to make everyone forget with these shenanigans. European people who should have been served much better are going to suffer because these Eurocrats were not up to the job of securing vaccine manufacturing and supply deals in the period of June 2020-September 2020. They let all of their deals rumble on for months while they haggled over price meaning companies who are unable to begin manufacturing until after the ink is dry are under unnecessary pressure to ramp up unreliable processes.Chris said:
The tragic thing is that the people the EU have done most damage to in this affair is their own citizens, and God knows they don't deserve to be in this mess without enough vaccine.MarqueeMark said:
We should just go in and gazzump them. For shits and giggles.eek said:
Novavax being one that the EU are only now in the process of negotiating contracts for.MaxPB said:
Especially given that we've got Novavax coming and the EU can't block Moderna as it's made in Switzerland.Richard_Nabavi said:I wonder when the penny will drop in Berlaymont that all this will look even more stupid in a few weeks' time when the UK has continued to roll out the jabs and the EU's programme has gone backwards?
I don't understand what the hell is going on in Brussels. They've all taken leave of their senses.2 -
It would go to court. Judging by the AZ contract and legal reaction to it, if the contract is similar then the EU will struggle to overrule Pfizer's call on which vaccines are due to which country in court.MaxPB said:
But Pfizer has shortages in production right now. What happens if some Eurocrat disagrees with them over how much they are sending to the UK?noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_3080 -
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Thanks, tbh, I think the people of NI will be happy to stick with UK supplies anyway.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, they are saying that they are excluding NI from the normal rule that NI/EU trade is not restricted (presumably because they think perfidious Albion would try to smuggle vaccines pinched from the EU allocation through NI). Bonkers again, and a very bad precedent for the NI protocol. It was supposed to be Boris who'd try to wriggle out of it, not the EU.MaxPB said:
Are they really suggesting that the UK not export vaccines to Northern Ireland? I'm not sure I understand it properly.Richard_Nabavi said:deleted, duplicate
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Isn't it going to generate some paperwork that shows a certain number of doses being exported from the Pfizer plant in the EU to the UK?noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
Given the relative per capita levels of vaccinations, won't that generate demands for those exports to be blocked, especially now that they've claimed EU doses of the AZ vaccine have been stolen by the UK?
They've created a situation where it will be hard for them to avoid further escalation.1 -
Yes, but no doubt it was predicted the EU would not even go this far. They are talking about a vaccine war and blaming the UK for wanting it. Their intentions may be to bluster but might accidentally lead to more.noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_3082 -
Paging the DUP and UUP. Sharpen those attack lines chaps...CarlottaVance said:Interesting question....
https://twitter.com/chrisg0000/status/1355189708779900933?s=20
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That's quite a gap between the fastest & slowest:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1355189454969987080?s=200 -
Isn't that close to 8.5 million doses?CarlottaVance said:Closing on 8 million:
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1355188975154188296?s=20
Stunning.1 -
We'll see. I shouldn't think many people will forget this.noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_3080 -
Yes, and presumably such a heavy-handed response equips the UK Government with the excuse to seal the border to keep the North safe from dirty unjabbed Southerners? They've not thought any of this through.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, they are saying that they are excluding NI from the normal rule that NI/EU trade is not restricted (presumably because they think perfidious Albion would try to smuggle vaccines pinched from the EU allocation through NI). Bonkers again, and a very bad precedent for the NI protocol. It was supposed to be Boris who'd try to wriggle out of it, not the EU.MaxPB said:
Are they really suggesting that the UK not export vaccines to Northern Ireland? I'm not sure I understand it properly.Richard_Nabavi said:deleted, duplicate
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NI not taking any crap from Wales now.CarlottaVance said:That's quite a gap between the fastest & slowest:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1355189454969987080?s=200 -
Disagree. This from the linked press release seems pretty clear:noneoftheabove said:
It explicitly does not give them the power to stop vaccines procured by the UK being exported, it simply requires notification. To stop it being exported they would have to show in a court that the vaccine was procured by the EU not the UK, which if its anything like the AZ contract, they wont be able to do.RobD said:
It's an instrument that gives them the power to restrict vaccine exports. Why would they pass such legislation if they weren't seriously considering using it?noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
"In deciding whether to grant an export authorisation under this Regulation, Member States, together with the Commission, shall assess whether the volume of exports is not such that it poses a threat to the execution of the Advance Purchase Agreements the EU has concluded with vaccine manufacturers.
Upon receiving the request, Member States immediately seek the agreement of the Commission.
In order to allow the relevant authorities to assess the request for export authorisation, vaccine producers subject to this Regulation are requested to provide relevant data on their exports since 29 October 2020 toghether with their first request for export authorisation."
If the Commission doesn't like the look of the numbers, no authorisation, no export.3 -
But in trying to get vaccine on the cheap - by letting us pay 7x their contribution and then riding on our coat-tails - they really have left themselves open to us walking in to these manufacturers and saying "Name your price. We'll take the lot." Because ultimately, the EU would HAVE to buy it from us. At a premium. Whatever it costs, it is still going to be cheaper than the ongoing damage to their economy.Chris said:
The tragic thing is that the people the EU have done most damage to in this affair is their own citizens, and God knows they don't deserve to be in this mess without enough vaccine.MarqueeMark said:
We should just go in and gazzump them. For shits and giggles.eek said:
Novavax being one that the EU are only now in the process of negotiating contracts for.MaxPB said:
Especially given that we've got Novavax coming and the EU can't block Moderna as it's made in Switzerland.Richard_Nabavi said:I wonder when the penny will drop in Berlaymont that all this will look even more stupid in a few weeks' time when the UK has continued to roll out the jabs and the EU's programme has gone backwards?
I don't understand what the hell is going on in Brussels. They've all taken leave of their senses.2 -
Interesting overview of the vagaries of vaccine production for mRNA, adenovirus, and killed virus technologies. Interestingly, the protein vaccine approach (Novavax) is not described (although the comments in relation to enzymes' role in mRNA vaccine production also apply)
https://apnews.com/article/why-its-hard-to-make-vaccines-explained-9173d65f7da50eee432d43d36769c5161 -
French did that to an English messenger they captured at the Battle of Auberoche, fired him back into the castle!Floater said:
No, no, noFishing said:
He doesn't have diplomatic immunity, does he? So we can just arrest him.TrèsDifficile said:That EU ambassador I said we should speak to, we should expel him.
Paging Morris Dancer - We need the trebuchet.
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Doesn't Scotland have an older, fatter, unhealthier population than England, too? So it's even more serious for them than it looks that they're lagging so far behind.CarlottaVance said:That's quite a gap between the fastest & slowest:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1355189454969987080?s=200 -
The UK's vaccine rollout is now partially at the mercy of a faceless bureaucrat somewhere in Brussels.occasionalranter said:
Disagree. This from the linked press release seems pretty clear:noneoftheabove said:
It explicitly does not give them the power to stop vaccines procured by the UK being exported, it simply requires notification. To stop it being exported they would have to show in a court that the vaccine was procured by the EU not the UK, which if its anything like the AZ contract, they wont be able to do.RobD said:
It's an instrument that gives them the power to restrict vaccine exports. Why would they pass such legislation if they weren't seriously considering using it?noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
"In deciding whether to grant an export authorisation under this Regulation, Member States, together with the Commission, shall assess whether the volume of exports is not such that it poses a threat to the execution of the Advance Purchase Agreements the EU has concluded with vaccine manufacturers.
Upon receiving the request, Member States immediately seek the agreement of the Commission.
In order to allow the relevant authorities to assess the request for export authorisation, vaccine producers subject to this Regulation are requested to provide relevant data on their exports since 29 October 2020 toghether with their first request for export authorisation."
If the Commission doesn't like the look of the numbers, no authorisation, no export.0 -
I imagine it didn't end well for him?TrèsDifficile said:
French did that to an English messenger they captured at the Battle of Auberoche, fired him back into the castle!Floater said:
No, no, noFishing said:
He doesn't have diplomatic immunity, does he? So we can just arrest him.TrèsDifficile said:That EU ambassador I said we should speak to, we should expel him.
Paging Morris Dancer - We need the trebuchet.0 -
He'd have got it sorted over a G & T or 10!williamglenn said:Jean-Claude Juncker would never have got the EU into this mess.
0 -
WTF is going on in Scotland?CarlottaVance said:That's quite a gap between the fastest & slowest:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1355189454969987080?s=20
Last thing Sturgeon needs now is a narrative about her doing worse than Boris in the rollout. It won't take much swing to prevent her gaining an SNP majority and then all the constitutional arguments vanish.0 -
Their FAQ says they have the power to grant or refuse an export authorisation.noneoftheabove said:
It explicitly does not give them the power to stop vaccines procured by the UK being exported, it simply requires notification. To stop it being exported they would have to show in a court that the vaccine was procured by the EU not the UK, which if its anything like the AZ contract, they wont be able to do.RobD said:
It's an instrument that gives them the power to restrict vaccine exports. Why would they pass such legislation if they weren't seriously considering using it?noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
In deciding whether to grant an export authorisation under this Regulation, Member States, together with the Commission, shall assess whether the volume of exports is not such that it poses a threat to the execution of the Advance Purchase Agreements the EU has concluded with vaccine manufacturers.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_3080 -
Wales have made up for their poor start - good stuffFishing said:
Doesn't Scotland have an older, fatter, unhealthier population than England, too? So it's even more serious for them than it looks that they're lagging so far behind.CarlottaVance said:That's quite a gap between the fastest & slowest:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1355189454969987080?s=201 -
The whole thing is self-inflicted by the EU. But the ordinary people in the EU are in the worst mess as a result.MarqueeMark said:
But in trying to get vaccine on the cheap - by letting us pay 7x their contribution and then riding on our coat-tails - they really have left themselves open to us walking in to these manufacturers and saying "Name your price. We'll take the lot." Because ultimately, the EU would HAVE to buy it from us. At a premium. Whatever it costs, it is still going to be cheaper than the ongoing damage to their economy.Chris said:
The tragic thing is that the people the EU have done most damage to in this affair is their own citizens, and God knows they don't deserve to be in this mess without enough vaccine.MarqueeMark said:
We should just go in and gazzump them. For shits and giggles.eek said:
Novavax being one that the EU are only now in the process of negotiating contracts for.MaxPB said:
Especially given that we've got Novavax coming and the EU can't block Moderna as it's made in Switzerland.Richard_Nabavi said:I wonder when the penny will drop in Berlaymont that all this will look even more stupid in a few weeks' time when the UK has continued to roll out the jabs and the EU's programme has gone backwards?
I don't understand what the hell is going on in Brussels. They've all taken leave of their senses.3 -
The desperate want to gloat uncontrollably at the EU completely screwing this up and going mad about it, is only tempered by the fact that there’s several thousand Europeans dying of this terrible virus every day.Chris said:
The tragic thing is that the people the EU have done most damage to in this affair is their own citizens, and God knows they don't deserve to be in this mess without enough vaccine.MarqueeMark said:
We should just go in and gazzump them. For shits and giggles.eek said:
Novavax being one that the EU are only now in the process of negotiating contracts for.MaxPB said:
Especially given that we've got Novavax coming and the EU can't block Moderna as it's made in Switzerland.Richard_Nabavi said:I wonder when the penny will drop in Berlaymont that all this will look even more stupid in a few weeks' time when the UK has continued to roll out the jabs and the EU's programme has gone backwards?
I don't understand what the hell is going on in Brussels. They've all taken leave of their senses.
In any other circumstance, I’d be rolling on the floor laughing, but would instead rather my parents get their full vaccines.1 -
RobD said:
NI not taking any crap from Wales now.CarlottaVance said:That's quite a gap between the fastest & slowest:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1355189454969987080?s=20
England in danger.RobD said:
NI not taking any crap from Wales now.CarlottaVance said:That's quite a gap between the fastest & slowest:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1355189454969987080?s=200 -
I don't see how we can pretend the Brexit deal means anything now, at the first sign of trouble and in the most serious of circumstances the EU has decided unilaterally to junk the deal as we understood it. How we can treat the EU as a serious trade and security partner after this is beyond me. This is the kind of nonsense we worry about with China, but it's happening with our neighbours.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, they are saying that they are excluding NI from the normal rule that NI/EU trade is not restricted (presumably because they think perfidious Albion would try to smuggle vaccines pinched from the EU allocation through NI). Bonkers again, and a very bad precedent for the NI protocol. It was supposed to be Boris who'd try to wriggle out of it, not the EU.MaxPB said:
Are they really suggesting that the UK not export vaccines to Northern Ireland? I'm not sure I understand it properly.Richard_Nabavi said:deleted, duplicate
3 -
Makes sense that smaller, more nimble countries are doing better.Luckyguy1983 said:RobD said:
NI not taking any crap from Wales now.CarlottaVance said:That's quite a gap between the fastest & slowest:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1355189454969987080?s=20
England in danger.RobD said:
NI not taking any crap from Wales now.CarlottaVance said:That's quite a gap between the fastest & slowest:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1355189454969987080?s=20
1 -
To be fair, in the last few years Barroso has started to look like a political giant by contrast with his successors.felix said:
He'd have got it sorted over a G & T or 10!williamglenn said:Jean-Claude Juncker would never have got the EU into this mess.
3 -
0
-
Sure, but the decision isnt just a preference of some bureaucrat, procedures that stand up to the lawyers of Pfizer and AZ need to be applied.MattW said:
Their FAQ says they have the power to grant or refuse an export authorisation.noneoftheabove said:
It explicitly does not give them the power to stop vaccines procured by the UK being exported, it simply requires notification. To stop it being exported they would have to show in a court that the vaccine was procured by the EU not the UK, which if its anything like the AZ contract, they wont be able to do.RobD said:
It's an instrument that gives them the power to restrict vaccine exports. Why would they pass such legislation if they weren't seriously considering using it?noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
In deciding whether to grant an export authorisation under this Regulation, Member States, together with the Commission, shall assess whether the volume of exports is not such that it poses a threat to the execution of the Advance Purchase Agreements the EU has concluded with vaccine manufacturers.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
"This is not an export ban. This measure would specifically target exports of COVID-19 vaccines covered by an Advance Purchase Agreement (APA) with the EU."
If its vaccines covered by an APA with the UK rather than the EU it will be allowed to be exported.0 -
That's true.Time_to_Leave said:
60% alcohol saturation kills the virus doesn’t it?...williamglenn said:Jean-Claude Juncker would never have got the EU into this mess.
Where is absinthe made?0 -
It's turning into a smear campaign.Gallowgate said:1 -
Jesus Christ! Are they mad?!!! What’s happened to them?Gallowgate said:
2 -
No, it's not an export ban. But it could turn into one if the authorisation is not granted.noneoftheabove said:
Sure, but the decision isnt just a preference of some bureaucrat, procedures that stand up to the lawyers of Pfizer and AZ need to be applied.MattW said:
Their FAQ says they have the power to grant or refuse an export authorisation.noneoftheabove said:
It explicitly does not give them the power to stop vaccines procured by the UK being exported, it simply requires notification. To stop it being exported they would have to show in a court that the vaccine was procured by the EU not the UK, which if its anything like the AZ contract, they wont be able to do.RobD said:
It's an instrument that gives them the power to restrict vaccine exports. Why would they pass such legislation if they weren't seriously considering using it?noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
In deciding whether to grant an export authorisation under this Regulation, Member States, together with the Commission, shall assess whether the volume of exports is not such that it poses a threat to the execution of the Advance Purchase Agreements the EU has concluded with vaccine manufacturers.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
"This is not an export ban. This measure would specifically target exports of COVID-19 vaccines covered by an Advance Purchase Agreement (APA) with the EU."
If its vaccines covered by an APA with the UK rather than the EU it will be allowed to be exported.1 -
Floater said:
No, no, noFishing said:
He doesn't have diplomatic immunity, does he? So we can just arrest him.TrèsDifficile said:That EU ambassador I said we should speak to, we should expel him.
Paging Morris Dancer - We need the trebuchet.
There are different types of diplomatic visas, conferring different levels of immunity. 'Diplomat' vs 'Fonctionnaire' is one distinction (or at least, used to be when I served). Here is a link to the different visas the US doles out.
https://immsolutionsllc.com/immigration/diplomatic-visas
When I turned up at JFK on my way to work at the UN with an A-1 visa, I got a LOT of questions from Immigration.0 -
I wonder why France has the least trust in vaccines!Gallowgate said:2 -
What a fantastic piece of art - so many bland siege/battle pieces, but that one knows how to grab attention!TrèsDifficile said:
French did that to an English messenger they captured at the Battle of Auberoche, fired him back into the castle!Floater said:
No, no, noFishing said:
He doesn't have diplomatic immunity, does he? So we can just arrest him.TrèsDifficile said:That EU ambassador I said we should speak to, we should expel him.
Paging Morris Dancer - We need the trebuchet.1 -
UK cases by specimen date
0 -
I don't know where it is made - but it makes the heart grow fonder ...MattW said:
That's true.Time_to_Leave said:
60% alcohol saturation kills the virus doesn’t it?...williamglenn said:Jean-Claude Juncker would never have got the EU into this mess.
Where is absinthe made?
Oh, my coat1 -
UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100k population
0 -
That'll help the anti-vaxx publicin France. Heck, even if it was only 10% effective that would still be better than nothing (albeit not what would be apporved generally) if nothing else were available.Gallowgate said:2 -
UK local R
0 -
I think you're missing the point. It will take 3 years for the issue to be resolved in the courts but meanwhile, right or wrong, the vaccines DO NOT LEAVE THE EU, because they don't have the authorisation under this fake fairness protection system that the Commission has just pulled out of its a*se !noneoftheabove said:
Sure, but the decision isnt just a preference of some bureaucrat, procedures that stand up to the lawyers of Pfizer and AZ need to be applied.MattW said:
Their FAQ says they have the power to grant or refuse an export authorisation.noneoftheabove said:
It explicitly does not give them the power to stop vaccines procured by the UK being exported, it simply requires notification. To stop it being exported they would have to show in a court that the vaccine was procured by the EU not the UK, which if its anything like the AZ contract, they wont be able to do.RobD said:
It's an instrument that gives them the power to restrict vaccine exports. Why would they pass such legislation if they weren't seriously considering using it?noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
In deciding whether to grant an export authorisation under this Regulation, Member States, together with the Commission, shall assess whether the volume of exports is not such that it poses a threat to the execution of the Advance Purchase Agreements the EU has concluded with vaccine manufacturers.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
"This is not an export ban. This measure would specifically target exports of COVID-19 vaccines covered by an Advance Purchase Agreement (APA) with the EU."
If its vaccines covered by an APA with the UK rather than the EU it will be allowed to be exported.0 -
UK case summary
0 -
What about Scotland ? *innocent face***RobD said:
Makes sense that smaller, more nimble countries are doing better.Luckyguy1983 said:RobD said:
NI not taking any crap from Wales now.CarlottaVance said:That's quite a gap between the fastest & slowest:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1355189454969987080?s=20
England in danger.RobD said:
NI not taking any crap from Wales now.CarlottaVance said:That's quite a gap between the fastest & slowest:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1355189454969987080?s=201 -
UK Hospitals
0 -
UK Deaths
Data is late today0 -
I'm finding this thread boringly one sided and partisan - is there anyone out there to help Kinabalu and None of the Above - what's happened to you. These people need help! Now! We have a serious Remain shortage. Paging! Paging! They can't all have urgent vaccine appointments surely.3
-
Totally agree.Chris said:
The whole thing is self-inflicted by the EU. But the ordinary people in the EU are in the worst mess as a result.MarqueeMark said:
But in trying to get vaccine on the cheap - by letting us pay 7x their contribution and then riding on our coat-tails - they really have left themselves open to us walking in to these manufacturers and saying "Name your price. We'll take the lot." Because ultimately, the EU would HAVE to buy it from us. At a premium. Whatever it costs, it is still going to be cheaper than the ongoing damage to their economy.Chris said:
The tragic thing is that the people the EU have done most damage to in this affair is their own citizens, and God knows they don't deserve to be in this mess without enough vaccine.MarqueeMark said:
We should just go in and gazzump them. For shits and giggles.eek said:
Novavax being one that the EU are only now in the process of negotiating contracts for.MaxPB said:
Especially given that we've got Novavax coming and the EU can't block Moderna as it's made in Switzerland.Richard_Nabavi said:I wonder when the penny will drop in Berlaymont that all this will look even more stupid in a few weeks' time when the UK has continued to roll out the jabs and the EU's programme has gone backwards?
I don't understand what the hell is going on in Brussels. They've all taken leave of their senses.0 -
To be fair, I think that was the decision to really focus on care homes, above the general population. I can see advantages and disadvantages to that approach.Floater said:
What about Scotland ? *innocent face***RobD said:
Makes sense that smaller, more nimble countries are doing better.Luckyguy1983 said:RobD said:
NI not taking any crap from Wales now.CarlottaVance said:That's quite a gap between the fastest & slowest:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1355189454969987080?s=20
England in danger.RobD said:
NI not taking any crap from Wales now.CarlottaVance said:That's quite a gap between the fastest & slowest:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1355189454969987080?s=200 -
Based upon current data that is quite simply a lie, on a par with something Trump might have said.RobD said:
It's turning into a smear campaign.Gallowgate said:1 -
"No, my father didn't fight in the Covid wars. He was a navigator on a Vaccine Refrigerator."MarqueeMark said:As the Covid Wars commence, has anybody noticed that Scott_P hasn't been retweeting from the front? I hope he hasn't copped a stray shell.
3 -
Pfizer: (producing perfect supporting paperwork) "these vaccines are part of the UK order"occasionalranter said:
I think you're missing the point. It will take 3 years for the issue to be resolved in the courts but meanwhile, right or wrong, the vaccines DO NOT LEAVE THE EU, because they don't have the authorisation under this fake fairness protection system that the Commission has just pulled out of its a*se !noneoftheabove said:
Sure, but the decision isnt just a preference of some bureaucrat, procedures that stand up to the lawyers of Pfizer and AZ need to be applied.MattW said:
Their FAQ says they have the power to grant or refuse an export authorisation.noneoftheabove said:
It explicitly does not give them the power to stop vaccines procured by the UK being exported, it simply requires notification. To stop it being exported they would have to show in a court that the vaccine was procured by the EU not the UK, which if its anything like the AZ contract, they wont be able to do.RobD said:
It's an instrument that gives them the power to restrict vaccine exports. Why would they pass such legislation if they weren't seriously considering using it?noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
In deciding whether to grant an export authorisation under this Regulation, Member States, together with the Commission, shall assess whether the volume of exports is not such that it poses a threat to the execution of the Advance Purchase Agreements the EU has concluded with vaccine manufacturers.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
"This is not an export ban. This measure would specifically target exports of COVID-19 vaccines covered by an Advance Purchase Agreement (APA) with the EU."
If its vaccines covered by an APA with the UK rather than the EU it will be allowed to be exported.
EC: "we disagree. Authorisation refused. Here's our address for service of claim"1 -
Agreed!RobD said:
No, it's not an export ban. But it could turn into one if the authorisation is not granted.noneoftheabove said:
Sure, but the decision isnt just a preference of some bureaucrat, procedures that stand up to the lawyers of Pfizer and AZ need to be applied.MattW said:
Their FAQ says they have the power to grant or refuse an export authorisation.noneoftheabove said:
It explicitly does not give them the power to stop vaccines procured by the UK being exported, it simply requires notification. To stop it being exported they would have to show in a court that the vaccine was procured by the EU not the UK, which if its anything like the AZ contract, they wont be able to do.RobD said:
It's an instrument that gives them the power to restrict vaccine exports. Why would they pass such legislation if they weren't seriously considering using it?noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
In deciding whether to grant an export authorisation under this Regulation, Member States, together with the Commission, shall assess whether the volume of exports is not such that it poses a threat to the execution of the Advance Purchase Agreements the EU has concluded with vaccine manufacturers.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
"This is not an export ban. This measure would specifically target exports of COVID-19 vaccines covered by an Advance Purchase Agreement (APA) with the EU."
If its vaccines covered by an APA with the UK rather than the EU it will be allowed to be exported.0 -
UK R
from case data
from hospitalisation data
0 -
That's the tie between Bozo and Churchill. While both of them were ultimately dependent on the abilities of those around them...kle4 said:
Predicting Boris will mess things up is not, in general terms, unreasonable, given the views of many on his record. Not altering position if he does not end up doing so is a different matter.TrèsDifficile said:I remember fondly the sincerity with which Boris haters predicted he'd fuck up vaccine procurement and then delivery.
Churchill tested the limits as to how one man could turn things around for the better.
Bozo tests the limits as to how one man can mess things up.
0 -
To which the EU will argue that they have contract for 30m vaccines, so the first 30m off the line are not for export.noneoftheabove said:
Sure, but the decision isnt just a preference of some bureaucrat, procedures that stand up to the lawyers of Pfizer and AZ need to be applied.MattW said:
Their FAQ says they have the power to grant or refuse an export authorisation.noneoftheabove said:
It explicitly does not give them the power to stop vaccines procured by the UK being exported, it simply requires notification. To stop it being exported they would have to show in a court that the vaccine was procured by the EU not the UK, which if its anything like the AZ contract, they wont be able to do.RobD said:
It's an instrument that gives them the power to restrict vaccine exports. Why would they pass such legislation if they weren't seriously considering using it?noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
In deciding whether to grant an export authorisation under this Regulation, Member States, together with the Commission, shall assess whether the volume of exports is not such that it poses a threat to the execution of the Advance Purchase Agreements the EU has concluded with vaccine manufacturers.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
"This is not an export ban. This measure would specifically target exports of COVID-19 vaccines covered by an Advance Purchase Agreement (APA) with the EU."
If its vaccines covered by an APA with the UK rather than the EU it will be allowed to be exported.0 -
Export checks have always been a thinly veiled mechanism for export bans. To deny this is to deny that we need oxygen to live.RobD said:
No, it's not an export ban. But it could turn into one if the authorisation is not granted.noneoftheabove said:
Sure, but the decision isnt just a preference of some bureaucrat, procedures that stand up to the lawyers of Pfizer and AZ need to be applied.MattW said:
Their FAQ says they have the power to grant or refuse an export authorisation.noneoftheabove said:
It explicitly does not give them the power to stop vaccines procured by the UK being exported, it simply requires notification. To stop it being exported they would have to show in a court that the vaccine was procured by the EU not the UK, which if its anything like the AZ contract, they wont be able to do.RobD said:
It's an instrument that gives them the power to restrict vaccine exports. Why would they pass such legislation if they weren't seriously considering using it?noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
In deciding whether to grant an export authorisation under this Regulation, Member States, together with the Commission, shall assess whether the volume of exports is not such that it poses a threat to the execution of the Advance Purchase Agreements the EU has concluded with vaccine manufacturers.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
"This is not an export ban. This measure would specifically target exports of COVID-19 vaccines covered by an Advance Purchase Agreement (APA) with the EU."
If its vaccines covered by an APA with the UK rather than the EU it will be allowed to be exported.2 -
Age related data
0 -
No matter how badly this damages the EU or helps the Leave argument I would still be happier if it hadn't happened. A bit of political one up man ship is not worth all those unnecessary deaths.Sandpit said:
The desperate want to gloat uncontrollably at the EU completely screwing this up and going mad about it, is only tempered by the fact that there’s several thousand Europeans dying of this terrible virus every day.Chris said:
The tragic thing is that the people the EU have done most damage to in this affair is their own citizens, and God knows they don't deserve to be in this mess without enough vaccine.MarqueeMark said:
We should just go in and gazzump them. For shits and giggles.eek said:
Novavax being one that the EU are only now in the process of negotiating contracts for.MaxPB said:
Especially given that we've got Novavax coming and the EU can't block Moderna as it's made in Switzerland.Richard_Nabavi said:I wonder when the penny will drop in Berlaymont that all this will look even more stupid in a few weeks' time when the UK has continued to roll out the jabs and the EU's programme has gone backwards?
I don't understand what the hell is going on in Brussels. They've all taken leave of their senses.
In any other circumstance, I’d be rolling on the floor laughing, but would instead rather my parents get their full vaccines.
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SNP plus Greens, remember.Philip_Thompson said:
WTF is going on in Scotland?CarlottaVance said:That's quite a gap between the fastest & slowest:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1355189454969987080?s=20
Last thing Sturgeon needs now is a narrative about her doing worse than Boris in the rollout. It won't take much swing to prevent her gaining an SNP majority and then all the constitutional arguments vanish.2 -
You earlier said that it explicitly did not give them the power to stop vaccines procured by the UK? It does, because they can just claim it was for the EU as per the current row with AZN.noneoftheabove said:
Agreed!RobD said:
No, it's not an export ban. But it could turn into one if the authorisation is not granted.noneoftheabove said:
Sure, but the decision isnt just a preference of some bureaucrat, procedures that stand up to the lawyers of Pfizer and AZ need to be applied.MattW said:
Their FAQ says they have the power to grant or refuse an export authorisation.noneoftheabove said:
It explicitly does not give them the power to stop vaccines procured by the UK being exported, it simply requires notification. To stop it being exported they would have to show in a court that the vaccine was procured by the EU not the UK, which if its anything like the AZ contract, they wont be able to do.RobD said:
It's an instrument that gives them the power to restrict vaccine exports. Why would they pass such legislation if they weren't seriously considering using it?noneoftheabove said:
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
In deciding whether to grant an export authorisation under this Regulation, Member States, together with the Commission, shall assess whether the volume of exports is not such that it poses a threat to the execution of the Advance Purchase Agreements the EU has concluded with vaccine manufacturers.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
"This is not an export ban. This measure would specifically target exports of COVID-19 vaccines covered by an Advance Purchase Agreement (APA) with the EU."
If its vaccines covered by an APA with the UK rather than the EU it will be allowed to be exported.2 -
UK vaccinations
0 -
Just an FYI, I don't expect an AZ claim would necessarily take months if it is in London.
I would expect the High Court to hear it in 2-3 weeks, plus the hearing and time for judgment. however that timeline of course starts with the claim being brought, which might take some time in itself.1 -
Tha UK R rate for case data does look to have been stubbornly flat-lining for 10 days or so.Malmesbury said:UK R
from case data
from hospitalisation data0 -
This was my favourite detail so far:TOPPING said:Morning team I'm back for a bit.
I am super interested in the minutiae (the technicalities) of the contract.
As people will know, my initial reaction was that the EU looked to be justified in their contention that AZN was not honouring their contract. The fact that it was signed with AZN AB I think is/was a bit tricksy by AZN.
And a lot of hot air about it was justified, if only for internal consumption.
Equally, they, like we, see this as an existential threat to their citizens and hence every jab could help to save a life so it is indeed a life and death matter. And they have a duty to their Member States' citizenry.
Finally, I still can't believe that this is something they would do. We are in difficult times for everything including it seems for vaccine supply and everyone is having to adapt.
But if they really are thinking of imposing an export ban on UK-bound vaccine stocks they can go and treble fuck themselves.
https://twitter.com/dudsinbxls/status/13551463138228224020 -
Exactly. It would be hilarious, were it not literally a matter of life and death.Richard_Tyndall said:
No matter how badly this damages the EU or helps the Leave argument I would still be happier if it hadn't happened. A bit of political one up man ship is not worth all those unnecessary deaths.Sandpit said:
The desperate want to gloat uncontrollably at the EU completely screwing this up and going mad about it, is only tempered by the fact that there’s several thousand Europeans dying of this terrible virus every day.Chris said:
The tragic thing is that the people the EU have done most damage to in this affair is their own citizens, and God knows they don't deserve to be in this mess without enough vaccine.MarqueeMark said:
We should just go in and gazzump them. For shits and giggles.eek said:
Novavax being one that the EU are only now in the process of negotiating contracts for.MaxPB said:
Especially given that we've got Novavax coming and the EU can't block Moderna as it's made in Switzerland.Richard_Nabavi said:I wonder when the penny will drop in Berlaymont that all this will look even more stupid in a few weeks' time when the UK has continued to roll out the jabs and the EU's programme has gone backwards?
I don't understand what the hell is going on in Brussels. They've all taken leave of their senses.
In any other circumstance, I’d be rolling on the floor laughing, but would instead rather my parents get their full vaccines.4 -
I don't expect the EU vaccine debacle to have a huge impact on the right/wrong polling although the field dates on this poll don't really cover the growing story.
What has become clear is it has softened the approach of most of the hardened Europhiles (FBPE sorts on twitter) many of whom now appear to be keeping schtum or tweeting about their second favourite topic (U.S. politics) instead. Perhaps this story may lead some of them to the realisation that the E.U. is not the nice cuddly force for good they previously assumed it was.1 -
I think it's terrible that the EU is jeopardising the Good Friday Agreement by setting up a hard border on the island of Ireland.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, they are saying that they are excluding NI from the normal rule that NI/EU trade is not restricted (presumably because they think perfidious Albion would try to smuggle vaccines pinched from the EU allocation through NI). Bonkers again, and a very bad precedent for the NI protocol. It was supposed to be Boris who'd try to wriggle out of it, not the EU.MaxPB said:
Are they really suggesting that the UK not export vaccines to Northern Ireland? I'm not sure I understand it properly.Richard_Nabavi said:deleted, duplicate
Of course you'll hear nothing from Dublin or Biden about this.5 -
This is the sort of scenario where an EU Commission should benefit from not having to stand for election and not having to service the whims of voters. And yet, we get this. I am just amazed - this isn’t the EU I thought I knew. I wanted to leave, but I’d have put money on the Commission doing this stuff well. What’s happened?Richard_Tyndall said:
No matter how badly this damages the EU or helps the Leave argument I would still be happier if it hadn't happened. A bit of political one up man ship is not worth all those unnecessary deaths.Sandpit said:
The desperate want to gloat uncontrollably at the EU completely screwing this up and going mad about it, is only tempered by the fact that there’s several thousand Europeans dying of this terrible virus every day.Chris said:
The tragic thing is that the people the EU have done most damage to in this affair is their own citizens, and God knows they don't deserve to be in this mess without enough vaccine.MarqueeMark said:
We should just go in and gazzump them. For shits and giggles.eek said:
Novavax being one that the EU are only now in the process of negotiating contracts for.MaxPB said:
Especially given that we've got Novavax coming and the EU can't block Moderna as it's made in Switzerland.Richard_Nabavi said:I wonder when the penny will drop in Berlaymont that all this will look even more stupid in a few weeks' time when the UK has continued to roll out the jabs and the EU's programme has gone backwards?
I don't understand what the hell is going on in Brussels. They've all taken leave of their senses.
In any other circumstance, I’d be rolling on the floor laughing, but would instead rather my parents get their full vaccines.
1 -
*Your call cannot be answered at this time. Please try later."felix said:I'm finding this thread boringly one sided and partisan - is there anyone out there to help Kinabalu and None of the Above - what's happened to you. These people need help! Now! We have a serious Remain shortage. Paging! Paging! They can't all have urgent vaccine appointments surely.
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This discussion has been closed.