In spite of the latest EU dealings those who think Brexit was wrong still have clear 8% lead with Yo
Comments
-
Why should he, Pfizer may be able to use that to pump out more from their US manufacturing. They said publicly last month that the major bottleneck in the US is sourcing of raw materials and ingredients for the process. If our supplies can cover the shortage and give Pfizer the means to boost its US production allowing it to fulfill non-EU contracts with a short delay then we need to do that.MarqueeMark said:
Boris can announce from his winter palace on Mount High Ground that we will not block those base ingredients.FrancisUrquhart said:I seemed to remember Max saying that some base ingredients for the Pfizer vaccine come from the UK...this could get very messy very quickly.
4 -
In a lot of ways using it all asap opens up the perfect story for Boris.Black_Rook said:
Any nonsense from the EU has come too late to derail the mid-February target. I'm quite sure that the NHS will press ahead with the Pfizer jabs - I've no idea if we have enough already onshore for all the boosters but regardless one shot is still going to be miles better than giving people nothing.FrancisUrquhart said:
I presume from next week they won't be giving anybody Pfizer just to be on the safe side. Not great for getting the numbers up to 500k / day and hitting the mid Feb target.Time_to_Leave said:The key question is whether there are enough second Pfizer doses already in the U.K. to match up with what’s been injected or another source that can compensate (e.g. US sites). If so, then presumably our Government can sit back, say nothing, and let the EU have a mardy.
Besides, it is nearly February already. My husband (who is shielding) has just got his appointment through for February 3rd. Best news in months.
Well Pfizer were due to deliver 3million vaccines on March 1st but the EU has blocked it - so the fact you aren't getting a second jab is the EUs fault.0 -
How many of those countries are importing any doses from EU facilities?Sandpit said:
So they’re letting Israel off. UK, USA, UAE and a few small Asian countries though, they are screwed.CarlottaVance said:Not just the UK missing......
https://twitter.com/nickgutteridge/status/1355174594097897480?s=20
Eagerly awaiting Joe Biden’s response...0 -
This does not stop Pfizer exporting to the UK at all. At most there is 4 day delay for paperwork.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
-------------
"This is not an export ban. This measure would specifically target exports of COVID-19 vaccines covered by an Advance Purchase Agreement (APA) with the EU. These exports will be subject to an early notification and authorisation before they are effectively shipped outside the EU."
-----------
"The Commission is mindful of APAs contracted by third countries, and will endeavour to ensure that the expectations of these countries to obtain their deliveries will be met.
We call on companies with APAs to meet their obligations to deliver on their commitments."
-----------
"Member States are required to set up export authorisation regimes.
Companies request an export authorisation in the Member State where the vaccine is manufactured.
Member States will process applications for export authorisations as soon as possible and no later than two working days after receiving all the required information.
This period may be extended by a further two working days but only under exceptional circumstances and for duly justified reasons.
In deciding whether to grant an export authorisation under this Regulation, Member States, together with the Commission, shall assess whether the volume of exports is not such that it poses a threat to the execution of the Advance Purchase Agreements the EU has concluded with vaccine manufacturers."0 -
That would be really irresponsible in public health terms. Our recourse is to speak to Pfizer and see whether we can receive doses from the US supply chain and what is necessary to make that happen.eek said:
In a lot of ways using it all asap opens up the perfect story for Boris.Black_Rook said:
Any nonsense from the EU has come too late to derail the mid-February target. I'm quite sure that the NHS will press ahead with the Pfizer jabs - I've no idea if we have enough already onshore for all the boosters but regardless one shot is still going to be miles better than giving people nothing.FrancisUrquhart said:
I presume from next week they won't be giving anybody Pfizer just to be on the safe side. Not great for getting the numbers up to 500k / day and hitting the mid Feb target.Time_to_Leave said:The key question is whether there are enough second Pfizer doses already in the U.K. to match up with what’s been injected or another source that can compensate (e.g. US sites). If so, then presumably our Government can sit back, say nothing, and let the EU have a mardy.
Besides, it is nearly February already. My husband (who is shielding) has just got his appointment through for February 3rd. Best news in months.
Well Pfizer were due to deliver 3million vaccines on March 1st but the EU has blocked it - so the fact you aren't getting a second jab is the EUs fault.0 -
Re Header - This seems a soft question. You're allowing into 'right' a lot of views.
(For example leave voters that tired of the process)
The real question is something like 'from where we are now do you think that we'll be better off or worse off being outside of the EU than within it?'
The EU is busy digging itself into an unworthy hole anyway. It won't play well anywhere.
0 -
We can say no more about the latter because the man has got the boot, but China, Russia and India are all enthusiastically exporting. If they're going to risk collapsing the Western alliance by bullying us then why don't they just go the whole hog and ask Putin and Xi to bail them out? It seems to be working for Viktor Orban.MaxPB said:Honestly, I'm genuinely quite shocked that they've gone down the export ban route. What pharmaceutical company will want to operate under these conditions in the future?
This is the kind of stuff I expect from China, Russia, India or Trump's USA. They aren't in great company.1 -
I'm tempted to call that Instant Karma.williamglenn said:3 -
It’s very hard not to see the US wanting to retaliate for being singled out, even if there’s no direct impact. It doesn’t tend to let trade barriers slide. The EU is opening a massive can of worms.MaxPB said:
Why should he, Pfizer may be able to use that to pump out more from their US manufacturing. They said publicly last month that the major bottleneck in the US is sourcing of raw materials and ingredients for the process. If our supplies can cover the shortage and give Pfizer the means to boost its US production allowing it to fulfill non-EU contracts with a short delay then we need to do that.MarqueeMark said:
Boris can announce from his winter palace on Mount High Ground that we will not block those base ingredients.FrancisUrquhart said:I seemed to remember Max saying that some base ingredients for the Pfizer vaccine come from the UK...this could get very messy very quickly.
0 -
AIUI all of them. There’s only two factories, one in Belgium and one in the USA, which is still getting up to speed.Philip_Thompson said:
How many of those countries are importing any doses from EU facilities?Sandpit said:
So they’re letting Israel off. UK, USA, UAE and a few small Asian countries though, they are screwed.CarlottaVance said:Not just the UK missing......
https://twitter.com/nickgutteridge/status/1355174594097897480?s=20
Eagerly awaiting Joe Biden’s response...0 -
No way - what reason would there be for them to see sense?MarqueeMark said:
Boris can announce from his winter palace on Mount High Ground that we will not block those base ingredients.FrancisUrquhart said:I seemed to remember Max saying that some base ingredients for the Pfizer vaccine come from the UK...this could get very messy very quickly.
0 -
I wonder when the penny will drop in Berlaymont that all this will look even more stupid in a few weeks' time when the UK has continued to roll out the jabs and the EU's programme has gone backwards?4
-
Only the section of UK society that voted heavily for Brexit..... It's not like they are vindictive or anything,TrèsDifficile said:The EU's policy appears to be to kill Brits.
1 -
The EU is spooked by the UK demonstrating a benefit of being outside of the EU - a benefit which is proving to be so huge.MaxPB said:Honestly, I'm genuinely quite shocked that they've gone down the export ban route. What pharmaceutical company will want to operate under these conditions in the future?
This is the kind of stuff I expect from China, Russia, India or Trump's USA. They aren't in great company.
The EU is aware that this can only intensify calls to leave from skeptics in other countries. People in Italy and Netherlands, for instance, will be apoplectic that their vaccine supply is dependent on the machinations of the EU rather than simply being a matter of negotiation between Italy and Netherlands and the particular pharmaceutical companies.6 -
What does this mean? And where is it?
Has a MS notified unilateral measures?
So far, only Belgium has notified an emergency measure.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_3080 -
This is turning even my most EUphile friends into rabid leavers.
Blocking vaccine exports in the middle of a pandemic is just absolutely irresponsible. They want to talk about vaccine wars, well they've just fired the first shot.7 -
Looking at that list of countries that doesn't include us, it does seem (for the first time) that Brexit was the sane option.Sandpit said:
It was certainly said an awful lot in Brussels over the past four years, that Brexit can never be allowed to be seen as successful.Floater said:Honest question - how much of this is spite because we left?
1 -
It is playing with fire on the western alliance. If I was asked to give a view, right now, on whether British troops should continue to perform their “trip wire” role on the Russian border, I think I’d say “no, bring them home”. Fortunately I’m not in charge, in this mood, because that would be the wrong thing to do.Black_Rook said:
We can say no more about the latter because the man has got the boot, but China, Russia and India are all enthusiastically exporting. If they're going to risk collapsing the Western alliance by bullying us then why don't they just go the whole hog and ask Putin and Xi to bail them out? It seems to be working for Viktor Orban.MaxPB said:Honestly, I'm genuinely quite shocked that they've gone down the export ban route. What pharmaceutical company will want to operate under these conditions in the future?
This is the kind of stuff I expect from China, Russia, India or Trump's USA. They aren't in great company.
0 -
International standing - take the high road.Floater said:
No way - what reason would there be for them to see sense?MarqueeMark said:
Boris can announce from his winter palace on Mount High Ground that we will not block those base ingredients.FrancisUrquhart said:I seemed to remember Max saying that some base ingredients for the Pfizer vaccine come from the UK...this could get very messy very quickly.
0 -
Popcorn supplies unaffected, I hope?0
-
Especially given that we've got Novavax coming and the EU can't block Moderna as it's made in Switzerland.Richard_Nabavi said:I wonder when the penny will drop in Berlaymont that all this will look even more stupid in a few weeks' time when the UK has continued to roll out the jabs and the EU's programme has gone backwards?
I don't understand what the hell is going on in Brussels. They've all taken leave of their senses.3 -
I asked on the last thread - is there any vaccine production that is not effected by delays, anywhere?Chris said:
I'm tempted to call that Instant Karma.williamglenn said:
Also - some of the EU related rhetoric claims no reduction in UK production. Do they believe this?1 -
The demand within the EU for increasing autonomy from individual countries is going to become overwhelming led by the electoratesMaxPB said:This is turning even my most EUphile friends into rabid leavers.
Blocking vaccine exports in the middle of a pandemic is just absolutely irresponsible. They want to talk about vaccine wars, well they've just fired the first shot.2 -
Because the only winner in our stopping the feedstock needed to make vaccine is the Covid bug. The only outcome of doing that is stopping vaccine production. Covid says "yay!" - and sets about mutating some more.Floater said:
No way - what reason would there be for them to see sense?MarqueeMark said:
Boris can announce from his winter palace on Mount High Ground that we will not block those base ingredients.FrancisUrquhart said:I seemed to remember Max saying that some base ingredients for the Pfizer vaccine come from the UK...this could get very messy very quickly.
Possible that vdL is that much of a bunny-boiler. But let's find out.0 -
So what's the point of the policy then if it will have zero effect?noneoftheabove said:This does not stop Pfizer exporting to the UK at all. At most there is 4 day delay for paperwork.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
-------------
"This is not an export ban. This measure would specifically target exports of COVID-19 vaccines covered by an Advance Purchase Agreement (APA) with the EU. These exports will be subject to an early notification and authorisation before they are effectively shipped outside the EU."
-----------
"The Commission is mindful of APAs contracted by third countries, and will endeavour to ensure that the expectations of these countries to obtain their deliveries will be met.
We call on companies with APAs to meet their obligations to deliver on their commitments."
-----------
"Member States are required to set up export authorisation regimes.
Companies request an export authorisation in the Member State where the vaccine is manufactured.
Member States will process applications for export authorisations as soon as possible and no later than two working days after receiving all the required information.
This period may be extended by a further two working days but only under exceptional circumstances and for duly justified reasons.
In deciding whether to grant an export authorisation under this Regulation, Member States, together with the Commission, shall assess whether the volume of exports is not such that it poses a threat to the execution of the Advance Purchase Agreements the EU has concluded with vaccine manufacturers."3 -
Novavax being one that the EU are only now in the process of negotiating contracts for.MaxPB said:
Especially given that we've got Novavax coming and the EU can't block Moderna as it's made in Switzerland.Richard_Nabavi said:I wonder when the penny will drop in Berlaymont that all this will look even more stupid in a few weeks' time when the UK has continued to roll out the jabs and the EU's programme has gone backwards?
I don't understand what the hell is going on in Brussels. They've all taken leave of their senses.1 -
That EU ambassador I said we should speak to, we should expel him.1
-
Price might spike....RobD said:Popcorn supplies unaffected, I hope?
0 -
To show they are being tough and provide internal PR cover for their mistakes. Just like the Internal Markets Bill was here. It will have negligible impact on vaccines exports either way.RobD said:
So what's the point of the policy then if it will have zero effect?noneoftheabove said:This does not stop Pfizer exporting to the UK at all. At most there is 4 day delay for paperwork.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
-------------
"This is not an export ban. This measure would specifically target exports of COVID-19 vaccines covered by an Advance Purchase Agreement (APA) with the EU. These exports will be subject to an early notification and authorisation before they are effectively shipped outside the EU."
-----------
"The Commission is mindful of APAs contracted by third countries, and will endeavour to ensure that the expectations of these countries to obtain their deliveries will be met.
We call on companies with APAs to meet their obligations to deliver on their commitments."
-----------
"Member States are required to set up export authorisation regimes.
Companies request an export authorisation in the Member State where the vaccine is manufactured.
Member States will process applications for export authorisations as soon as possible and no later than two working days after receiving all the required information.
This period may be extended by a further two working days but only under exceptional circumstances and for duly justified reasons.
In deciding whether to grant an export authorisation under this Regulation, Member States, together with the Commission, shall assess whether the volume of exports is not such that it poses a threat to the execution of the Advance Purchase Agreements the EU has concluded with vaccine manufacturers."2 -
Slowly, very slowly negotiating ........eek said:
Novavax being one that the EU are only now in the process of negotiating contracts for.MaxPB said:
Especially given that we've got Novavax coming and the EU can't block Moderna as it's made in Switzerland.Richard_Nabavi said:I wonder when the penny will drop in Berlaymont that all this will look even more stupid in a few weeks' time when the UK has continued to roll out the jabs and the EU's programme has gone backwards?
I don't understand what the hell is going on in Brussels. They've all taken leave of their senses.0 -
Question for the pharma experts - how quickly could Pfizer have a manufacturing facility up and running in the UK - with unlimited money thrown at the problem, and possibly a few machines standing idle in Belgium that could be recommissioned?0
-
The thing is - it's not actually a benefit of being outside the EU.Stocky said:
The EU is spooked by the UK demonstrating a benefit of being outside of the EU - a benefit which is proving to be so huge.MaxPB said:Honestly, I'm genuinely quite shocked that they've gone down the export ban route. What pharmaceutical company will want to operate under these conditions in the future?
This is the kind of stuff I expect from China, Russia, India or Trump's USA. They aren't in great company.
The EU is aware that this can only intensify calls to leave from skeptics in other countries. People in Italy and Netherlands, for instance, will be apoplectic that their vaccine supply is dependent on the machinations of the EU rather than simply being a matter of negotiation between Italy and Netherlands and the particular pharmaceutical companies.
The EU could have applied the same logic we did but instead they argued amongst themselves for 3 months and then decided to continue penny pinching when they should have spent more money to speed things up.1 -
The list of exempted countries is utterly bizarre, since it completely destroys the pretence that this is only about 'transparency'. It can't both be true that "The Commission is concerned by the lack of transparency around the ways some companies are operating and wants to have complete information in order to ensure they fulfil their contractual commitments" and that they don't need to have any information about exports to 92 countries, including most oddly Israel, which has been getting a lot of supply.
They really have lost their marbles. An extraordinary sight.5 -
That's what's completely mental about all of this, there isn't a single company that has kept its schedules. AZ, Pfizer, Moderna and all of the Chinese/Russian ones are struggling to get up to speed. It's not as if there's some magic button that you can push to say "100x this process overnight".Malmesbury said:
I asked on the last thread - is there any vaccine production that is not effected by delays, anywhere?Chris said:
I'm tempted to call that Instant Karma.williamglenn said:
Also - some of the EU related rhetoric claims no reduction in UK production. Do they believe this?
The lack of industrial expertise in the EC is really showing here.2 -
We should just go in and gazzump them. For shits and giggles.eek said:
Novavax being one that the EU are only now in the process of negotiating contracts for.MaxPB said:
Especially given that we've got Novavax coming and the EU can't block Moderna as it's made in Switzerland.Richard_Nabavi said:I wonder when the penny will drop in Berlaymont that all this will look even more stupid in a few weeks' time when the UK has continued to roll out the jabs and the EU's programme has gone backwards?
I don't understand what the hell is going on in Brussels. They've all taken leave of their senses.2 -
What is the difference between Trump's America First and the EU's vaccine policy1
-
0
-
Israel would lose their shit if they lost their only vaccine supply.Richard_Nabavi said:The list of exempted countries is utterly bizarre, since it completely destroys the pretence that this is only about 'transparency'. It can't both be true that "The Commission is concerned by the lack of transparency around the ways some companies are operating and wants to have complete information in order to ensure they fulfil their contractual commitments" and that they don't need to have any information about exports to 92 countries, including most oddly Israel, which has been getting a lot of supply.
They really have lost their marbles. An extraordinary sight.0 -
That would be funny - you mean there was nothing in the export ban to stop the production line being exported.Sandpit said:Question for the pharma experts - how quickly could Pfizer have a manufacturing facility up and running in the UK - with unlimited money thrown at the problem, and possibly a few machines standing idle in Belgium that could be recommissioned?
There are going to be whole industries where as of 3pm today manufacturing in the UK has switched from being an insane option to the saner one.2 -
Months rather than weeks, though we do have the option of asking for a temporary licence to manufacture it in the new centre in Oxfordshire as that has mRNA capacity of 10m per month.Sandpit said:Question for the pharma experts - how quickly could Pfizer have a manufacturing facility up and running in the UK - with unlimited money thrown at the problem, and possibly a few machines standing idle in Belgium that could be recommissioned?
2 -
Total humiliation for the EU today!0
-
It's beginning to look like it - but we do need to wait and see if the member states use these powers for monitoring purposes or actually to confiscate supply.TrèsDifficile said:The EU's policy appears to be to kill Brits.
A scenario in which the EU both blocks export of Pfizer and demands a cut of UK vaccine production would amount to extortion.0 -
On topic, I dont expect this issue to affect perceptions long term, though there may be a spike here or in some places on the continent. The downsides of leaving overall are too apparent.
Hopefully, though, the distraction of the Commussion will not work and people will see the downsides of remaining and the EU can seek to improve to address concerns. It's no good if members could act differently if pressured so much not to do so and the commission evades responsibilities for problems.0 -
There's only 1.3 billion doses ahead of the EU in the queue.MarqueeMark said:
We should just go in and gazzump them. For shits and giggles.eek said:
Novavax being one that the EU are only now in the process of negotiating contracts for.MaxPB said:
Especially given that we've got Novavax coming and the EU can't block Moderna as it's made in Switzerland.Richard_Nabavi said:I wonder when the penny will drop in Berlaymont that all this will look even more stupid in a few weeks' time when the UK has continued to roll out the jabs and the EU's programme has gone backwards?
I don't understand what the hell is going on in Brussels. They've all taken leave of their senses.1 -
Give them the covax email address and tell them we’ll help them along with all the other countries incapable of securing their own supply...MarqueeMark said:
We should just go in and gazzump them. For shits and giggles.eek said:
Novavax being one that the EU are only now in the process of negotiating contracts for.MaxPB said:
Especially given that we've got Novavax coming and the EU can't block Moderna as it's made in Switzerland.Richard_Nabavi said:I wonder when the penny will drop in Berlaymont that all this will look even more stupid in a few weeks' time when the UK has continued to roll out the jabs and the EU's programme has gone backwards?
I don't understand what the hell is going on in Brussels. They've all taken leave of their senses.
1 -
No current plans.....Malmesbury said:
It is my hope that he does. He should announceMarqueeMark said:
Boris can announce from his winter palace on Mount High Ground that we will not block those base ingredients.FrancisUrquhart said:I seemed to remember Max saying that some base ingredients for the Pfizer vaccine come from the UK...this could get very messy very quickly.
- No plans to block export of vaccine
- No plans to block export of materials for production of vaccine.
2 -
Into their foot.MaxPB said:This is turning even my most EUphile friends into rabid leavers.
Blocking vaccine exports in the middle of a pandemic is just absolutely irresponsible. They want to talk about vaccine wars, well they've just fired the first shot.3 -
It looks like something?RobD said:
So what's the point of the policy then if it will have zero effect?noneoftheabove said:This does not stop Pfizer exporting to the UK at all. At most there is 4 day delay for paperwork.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_308
-------------
"This is not an export ban. This measure would specifically target exports of COVID-19 vaccines covered by an Advance Purchase Agreement (APA) with the EU. These exports will be subject to an early notification and authorisation before they are effectively shipped outside the EU."
-----------
"The Commission is mindful of APAs contracted by third countries, and will endeavour to ensure that the expectations of these countries to obtain their deliveries will be met.
We call on companies with APAs to meet their obligations to deliver on their commitments."
-----------
"Member States are required to set up export authorisation regimes.
Companies request an export authorisation in the Member State where the vaccine is manufactured.
Member States will process applications for export authorisations as soon as possible and no later than two working days after receiving all the required information.
This period may be extended by a further two working days but only under exceptional circumstances and for duly justified reasons.
In deciding whether to grant an export authorisation under this Regulation, Member States, together with the Commission, shall assess whether the volume of exports is not such that it poses a threat to the execution of the Advance Purchase Agreements the EU has concluded with vaccine manufacturers."0 -
Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_3080 -
As the Covid Wars commence, has anybody noticed that Scott_P hasn't been retweeting from the front? I hope he hasn't copped a stray shell.5
-
Trump's America First makes more sense.Big_G_NorthWales said:What is the difference between Trump's America First and the EU's vaccine policy
7 -
Today the EU has become the world's worst client and the world's worst place to do business. This isn't going well for them at all.9
-
Quite possibly the best put down I have seen in agesRichard_Nabavi said:
Trump's America First makes more sense.Big_G_NorthWales said:What is the difference between Trump's America First and the EU's vaccine policy
1 -
Into their arm, surely?MarqueeMark said:
Into their foot.MaxPB said:This is turning even my most EUphile friends into rabid leavers.
Blocking vaccine exports in the middle of a pandemic is just absolutely irresponsible. They want to talk about vaccine wars, well they've just fired the first shot.0 -
Yes, but is that spite or self-preservation? It was notable how much anti-EU sentiment fell off while the Brexit negotiations were ongoing, and fairly clear that was at least a secondary goal of the EU position.Sandpit said:
It was certainly said an awful lot in Brussels over the past four years, that Brexit can never be allowed to be seen as successful.Floater said:Honest question - how much of this is spite because we left?
1 -
Trump had better baseball caps?Big_G_NorthWales said:What is the difference between Trump's America First and the EU's vaccine policy
4 -
It seems to be hard sourcing a tweet in support of this clusterfuck....MarqueeMark said:As the Covid Wars commence, has anybody noticed that Scott_P hasn't been retweeting from the front? I hope he hasn't copped a stray shell.
2 -
Yes, Trump's America first didn't institute export bans to countries it relied on for imports to make those products!Richard_Nabavi said:
Trump's America First makes more sense.Big_G_NorthWales said:What is the difference between Trump's America First and the EU's vaccine policy
It's literally the most stupid plan.
The EU has picked up the gun, put it against its own head and said "give us what we want or we'll pull this trigger". I don't know what they are trying to achieve.1 -
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_3081 -
No - this is too important. If you fuck up the complex chain of materials etc, it will take a long, long time to get it up and running again. Think a massive hit to production. For everyone.CarlottaVance said:
No current plans.....Malmesbury said:
It is my hope that he does. He should announceMarqueeMark said:
Boris can announce from his winter palace on Mount High Ground that we will not block those base ingredients.FrancisUrquhart said:I seemed to remember Max saying that some base ingredients for the Pfizer vaccine come from the UK...this could get very messy very quickly.
- No plans to block export of vaccine
- No plans to block export of materials for production of vaccine.0 -
One thing this has done is confirm my holiday decision this year (if we get ot go)MarqueeMark said:
Trump had better baseball caps?Big_G_NorthWales said:What is the difference between Trump's America First and the EU's vaccine policy
Anywhere but the EU (well, in my case North America running hot favourite ) 1 -
I'm trying to think of a phrase to sum up this story.
https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/13551856596784373790 -
It would at the moment. We must all remember that all of the EU's actions so far consist of rhetorical sabre-rattling and creating new enforcement powers on paper. They've not actually done anything yet.Time_to_Leave said:
It is playing with fire on the western alliance. If I was asked to give a view, right now, on whether British troops should continue to perform their “trip wire” role on the Russian border, I think I’d say “no, bring them home”. Fortunately I’m not in charge, in this mood, because that would be the wrong thing to do.Black_Rook said:
We can say no more about the latter because the man has got the boot, but China, Russia and India are all enthusiastically exporting. If they're going to risk collapsing the Western alliance by bullying us then why don't they just go the whole hog and ask Putin and Xi to bail them out? It seems to be working for Viktor Orban.MaxPB said:Honestly, I'm genuinely quite shocked that they've gone down the export ban route. What pharmaceutical company will want to operate under these conditions in the future?
This is the kind of stuff I expect from China, Russia, India or Trump's USA. They aren't in great company.
It's only if and when they choose to pick a really serious fight over this issue that the matter of withdrawing troops from Estonia and air defence from Ireland comes onto the agenda.0 -
Did anyone spot that Guido managed to read most of the redacted stuff in the AZ contract?
https://order-order.com/2021/01/29/eus-astrazeneca-redaction-cock-up/
Ooooooooooops.
The EU are bonkers. Worse than Trump on steroids.
1 -
Market forces may very well take over. If you were Pfizer (a US company remember) would you now not prioritise getting the US manufacturing site turbocharged? The EU site looks risky to me.Malmesbury said:
No - this is too important. If you fuck up the complex chain of materials etc, it will take a long, long time to get it up and running again. Think a massive hit to production. For everyone.CarlottaVance said:
No current plans.....Malmesbury said:
It is my hope that he does. He should announceMarqueeMark said:
Boris can announce from his winter palace on Mount High Ground that we will not block those base ingredients.FrancisUrquhart said:I seemed to remember Max saying that some base ingredients for the Pfizer vaccine come from the UK...this could get very messy very quickly.
- No plans to block export of vaccine
- No plans to block export of materials for production of vaccine.2 -
I agree. Leave mean, vindictive and petty to the EU.Malmesbury said:
No - this is too important. If you fuck up the complex chain of materials etc, it will take a long, long time to get it up and running again. Think a massive hit to production. For everyone.CarlottaVance said:
No current plans.....Malmesbury said:
It is my hope that he does. He should announceMarqueeMark said:
Boris can announce from his winter palace on Mount High Ground that we will not block those base ingredients.FrancisUrquhart said:I seemed to remember Max saying that some base ingredients for the Pfizer vaccine come from the UK...this could get very messy very quickly.
- No plans to block export of vaccine
- No plans to block export of materials for production of vaccine.1 -
When it actually happens, in line with original intentions, she's going to say it was thanks to her.CarlottaVance said:0 -
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_3080 -
Really they should have thought about that then? How can the UK not retaliate with export bans in kind, with Pfizer stepping in to supply injured parties from their US manufacturing.Malmesbury said:
No - this is too important. If you fuck up the complex chain of materials etc, it will take a long, long time to get it up and running again. Think a massive hit to production. For everyone.CarlottaVance said:
No current plans.....Malmesbury said:
It is my hope that he does. He should announceMarqueeMark said:
Boris can announce from his winter palace on Mount High Ground that we will not block those base ingredients.FrancisUrquhart said:I seemed to remember Max saying that some base ingredients for the Pfizer vaccine come from the UK...this could get very messy very quickly.
- No plans to block export of vaccine
- No plans to block export of materials for production of vaccine.3 -
*This option is not available in EU countries*not_on_fire said:
Into their arm, surely?MarqueeMark said:
Into their foot.MaxPB said:This is turning even my most EUphile friends into rabid leavers.
Blocking vaccine exports in the middle of a pandemic is just absolutely irresponsible. They want to talk about vaccine wars, well they've just fired the first shot.2 -
To be honest, as a Rejoiner, I didn't think anyone on the EU side would be as daft as Boris has been. 'Cos that was what Boris' UK team did!MaxPB said:
Yes, Trump's America first didn't institute export bans to countries it relied on for imports to make those products!Richard_Nabavi said:
Trump's America First makes more sense.Big_G_NorthWales said:What is the difference between Trump's America First and the EU's vaccine policy
It's literally the most stupid plan.
The EU has picked up the gun, put it against its own head and said "give us what we want or we'll pull this trigger". I don't know what they are trying to achieve.1 -
3
-
Oh no, not a new centre in the UK that could make 10m does per month!MaxPB said:
Months rather than weeks, though we do have the option of asking for a temporary licence to manufacture it in the new centre in Oxfordshire as that has mRNA capacity of 10m per month.Sandpit said:Question for the pharma experts - how quickly could Pfizer have a manufacturing facility up and running in the UK - with unlimited money thrown at the problem, and possibly a few machines standing idle in Belgium that could be recommissioned?
1 -
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_3083 -
I thought that the Harwell facility was still under construction?MaxPB said:
Months rather than weeks, though we do have the option of asking for a temporary licence to manufacture it in the new centre in Oxfordshire as that has mRNA capacity of 10m per month.Sandpit said:Question for the pharma experts - how quickly could Pfizer have a manufacturing facility up and running in the UK - with unlimited money thrown at the problem, and possibly a few machines standing idle in Belgium that could be recommissioned?
In any event, even if this was an option and Pfizer were to agree (which, let's face it, if they were barred from fulfilling their contracts with us one assumes they would be pleased to do,) then surely it would take months to get production underway? These complex industrial processes can't be initiated just with the flick of a switch. It's why the EU is in so much trouble in the first place.0 -
I cannot recall a single event uniting this forum in a way the EU trashing their brand has done
It is remarkable and where it leaves Nicola Sturgeon and her devotion to this discredited bunch of politicians and bureaucrats is anyone guess4 -
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_3080 -
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_3080 -
443k vaccine doses administered! Big increase.1
-
On topic,
'EU you are awful but I like you.'0 -
Hopefully they get that up and running quickly. I think Roche are contracted to manufacture the Moderna doses.Floater said:Did someone mention Switzerland
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/13551856858927226890 -
-
Someone should be speaking to them about converting a site here for their use, if long term investment in this country can be facilitated.Time_to_Leave said:
Market forces may very well take over. If you were Pfizer (a US company remember) would you now not prioritise getting the US manufacturing site turbocharged? The EU site looks risky to me.Malmesbury said:
No - this is too important. If you fuck up the complex chain of materials etc, it will take a long, long time to get it up and running again. Think a massive hit to production. For everyone.CarlottaVance said:
No current plans.....Malmesbury said:
It is my hope that he does. He should announceMarqueeMark said:
Boris can announce from his winter palace on Mount High Ground that we will not block those base ingredients.FrancisUrquhart said:I seemed to remember Max saying that some base ingredients for the Pfizer vaccine come from the UK...this could get very messy very quickly.
- No plans to block export of vaccine
- No plans to block export of materials for production of vaccine.0 -
deleted, duplicate0
-
"'At least I'm less of a motherf****r than the EU' says Russian stepson"?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm trying to think of a phrase to sum up this story.
https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/13551856596784373793 -
Almost as bad as your shoesTheScreamingEagles said:On topic,
'EU you are awful but I like you.'
0 -
Oh, very much so. They were definitely looking forward to problems at the ports.Endillion said:
Yes, but is that spite or self-preservation? It was notable how much anti-EU sentiment fell off while the Brexit negotiations were ongoing, and fairly clear that was at least a secondary goal of the EU position.Sandpit said:
It was certainly said an awful lot in Brussels over the past four years, that Brexit can never be allowed to be seen as successful.Floater said:Honest question - how much of this is spite because we left?
That, within a month of leaving properly, the UK a has chalked up such a massive and visible advantage, is clearly a big issue for the EU.0 -
Morning team I'm back for a bit.
I am super interested in the minutiae (the technicalities) of the contract.
As people will know, my initial reaction was that the EU looked to be justified in their contention that AZN was not honouring their contract. The fact that it was signed with AZN AB I think is/was a bit tricksy by AZN.
And a lot of hot air about it was justified, if only for internal consumption.
Equally, they, like we, see this as an existential threat to their citizens and hence every jab could help to save a life so it is indeed a life and death matter. And they have a duty to their Member States' citizenry.
Finally, I still can't believe that this is something they would do. We are in difficult times for everything including it seems for vaccine supply and everyone is having to adapt.
But if they really are thinking of imposing an export ban on UK-bound vaccine stocks they can go and treble fuck themselves.3 -
See that, Brussels? That's another 443k Brexit-voting nanas and gramps safe from Covid that is.MaxPB said:443k vaccine doses administered! Big increase.
How you doing?3 -
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_3080 -
We know Pfizer has production issues which means reduced supply - so you then ask who has priority over the available supply when the EU is due x million and there is only x million available in total.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_3081 -
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_3080 -
Are they really suggesting that the UK not export vaccines to Northern Ireland? I'm not sure I understand it properly.Richard_Nabavi said:deleted, duplicate
0 -
It can work (This clip is NSFW due to the N-word):MaxPB said:
Yes, Trump's America first didn't institute export bans to countries it relied on for imports to make those products!Richard_Nabavi said:
Trump's America First makes more sense.Big_G_NorthWales said:What is the difference between Trump's America First and the EU's vaccine policy
It's literally the most stupid plan.
The EU has picked up the gun, put it against its own head and said "give us what we want or we'll pull this trigger". I don't know what they are trying to achieve.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_JOGmXpe5I0 -
Where is the strategic thinking? They’ve really gone mad.Richard_Nabavi said:deleted, duplicate
0 -
The stretched twig of intellectual credibility has melted...CarlottaVance said:1 -
The vaccines will still arrive. Its an annoying, rubbish and counter productive decision from the EU but its not a ban and wont escalate into a vaccine trade war. In a 2-3 months time there will be enough vaccines available that all wealthy countries can show good progress and their electorates will be happy.RobD said:
Not unless some pen-pusher in Brussels says so.noneoftheabove said:
The UK govt doesnt seem particularly concerned. Pfizer will continue to export here.RobD said:
And now those authorising exports too.noneoftheabove said:
Initially Pfizer (or the other drug companies), but ultimately it could be the courts.RobD said:
Who decides what vaccines are procured by the EU? That's the central issue here.noneoftheabove said:
It only covers exports of vaccines procured by the EU, not vaccines procured by the UK manufactured in the EU.RobD said:
It gives them the mechanism to do exactly that.noneoftheabove said:Does anyone who has read this policy note seriously think it bans Pfizer exporting from the EU to the UK? Calm down! Read the detail.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_3081 -
Switzerland has not done well (so far) on vaccines, so this is good news.Floater said:Did someone mention Switzerland
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1355185685892722689
And, fwiw, we are going to keep seeing vaccine production increasing everywhere. The EU has gained nothing, I suspect, by its shenanigans, except to upset its partners and lower the likelihood people would want to invest in it.
(Although, of course, the whole thing is doubly crazy, because the EU has essentially announced export restrictions... and announced that it is up member states whether to enforce them. So, they may have managed the ultimate triple own goal of pissing of an ally, reducing the likelihood people would want to invest in the future, and not actually increased the number of vaccine doses available.)0
