And Corbyn acknowledges Marriage Allowance removal - now will the media finally pick up on it?
That is ridiculous. Why should a family with one partner earning 10k and the other 50k pay more tax than one where both partners earn 30k?
Individuals pay income tax, not families. And it isn’t any business of the Revenue worrying about people’s conjugal circumstances. A fine opportunity to do some badly needed tax simplification and get rid of it.
Why should the tax system incentivise people to pay someone else to look after their kids if they would rather look after them themselves?
Clearly, governments always like big GDP/employment figures, and for some reason, caring for someone else's kids counts towards that but caring for your own doesn't.
I take back what I said earlier. The BBC have messed this up royally. A thoroughly biased audience.
More likely to be Tory HQ that messed up, if indeed the audience is indeed unbalanced rather than differentially vocal, since I am sure the BBC shared out the invitations
It’s very easy to dupe the producers I imagine. How can they check your background?
Corbyn was getting applause for every answer and Swinson is getting none. Not that I think this debate will have any effect on the polls.
We're told how keen some people are on stopping Brexit. If any of them are in that audience they are keeping very quiet. I'd suggest this isn't the most representative of audiences.
I take back what I said earlier. The BBC have messed this up royally. A thoroughly biased audience.
It is not acceptable and needs to be reviewed by ofcom
Why?
It is biased and just wrong
You can’t really say that until the end. So far all of them have had warm applause on arrival, all had tough questions and arguments, and all won some applause from the audience. If Bozo manages the same (assuming he doesn’t make a complete mess of it) you can’t really allege bias
It was easy on Sturgeon and outright aggressive on Swinson.
I will see how Boris handles it but there must be about 75% against Boris
I take back what I said earlier. The BBC have messed this up royally. A thoroughly biased audience.
More likely to be Tory HQ that messed up, if indeed the audience is indeed unbalanced rather than differentially vocal, since I am sure the BBC shared out the invitations
It’s very easy to dupe the producers I imagine. How can they check your background?
Corbyn was getting applause for every answer and Swinson is getting none. Not that I think this debate will have any effect on the polls.
For normal question time a chunk at least of the seats is channeled out through the political parties. Normally they find their way to the local parties in the area where its being filmed, if sometimes at short notice. I have been asked dozens of times and been twice. But it relies on the people in the party organisation getting them out to the people who might attend and then checking and chasing to make sure that they do.
What is it with socialists? They all think that every individual's life must be micro managed by the state. When's the last time anyone heard a single politician mention personal responsibility? It's so very depressing.
It's the Tories who support taxing people differently on the basis of whether they're married and socialists who are accused of micromanaging people's lives. Okay.
The married couples allowance, that's £20 a month, I guess I'll save more than that with my free broadband.
Every government puts up some taxes, but it's rare for a party to say so before an election. Have the Tories said which taxes they will increase?
It's even more unsual for a party to announce a tax rise that will only hit basic rate taxpayers and their spouses whilst claiming that only the top 5% will pay more tax.
What do you call cognitive dissonance when it becomes normalised?
What's totally fascinating here is how she's being completely eviscerated by *solid Remainers*.
Unilateral revocation. What a catastrophic misjudgment.
Possibly. We're told that leave/remain is a stronger identity than party affiliation. But I reckon this audience is more Labour than Remain. At least the ones making noise are.
In my area remainer in chief Tom Brake isnt even mentioning Brexit in his literature or his hand written.letter to residents..he is too scared in his own constituency..its mad
I take back what I said earlier. The BBC have messed this up royally. A thoroughly biased audience.
More likely to be Tory HQ that messed up, if indeed the audience is indeed unbalanced rather than differentially vocal, since I am sure the BBC shared out the invitations
It’s very easy to dupe the producers I imagine. How can they check your background?
Corbyn was getting applause for every answer and Swinson is getting none. Not that I think this debate will have any effect on the polls.
For normal question time a chunk at least of the seats is channeled out through the political parties. Normally they find their way to the local parties in the area where its being filmed, if sometimes at short notice. I have been asked dozens of times and been twice. But it relies on the people in the party organisation getting them out to the people who might attend and then checking and chasing to make sure that they do.
It looks about 60% Labour to me judging on who’s clapping. Are we saying the Tories, Lib Dems and SNP all completely failed to chase up their people? I quite hope Boris gets a tough reaction on arrival, it’ll make it look like a stitch up to the TV viewers.
The problem is Swinson is getting shit from all sides. And is still copping flak for the coalition years, which is very telling. Very little support for her here.
Feel sorry for her.
If the audience are not representative of the public at large then reacting calmly to unfair attacks could work in favour of the politician attacked, and being given an easy ride work badly for a leader fawned over.
I think too much is made of a supposed bias in the audience. It's whether the people at home share that bias that matters and if they don't I think they'll form their own view on how the politician deals with a hostile audience.
Why is England considered a collection of regions and not a country? Equal devolution means an English parliament.
Because London and Workington are further apart (not just geographically). It may eventually happen as a default response to greater independence for other parts of the UK, but I don’t see the thirst.
A region of 5 million people has a greater chance of working (still an urban-rural split, but similar range to Scotland, I’d say).
I take back what I said earlier. The BBC have messed this up royally. A thoroughly biased audience.
More likely to be Tory HQ that messed up, if indeed the audience is indeed unbalanced rather than differentially vocal, since I am sure the BBC shared out the invitations
It’s very easy to dupe the producers I imagine. How can they check your background?
Corbyn was getting applause for every answer and Swinson is getting none. Not that I think this debate will have any effect on the polls.
For normal question time a chunk at least of the seats is channeled out through the political parties. Normally they find their way to the local parties in the area where its being filmed, if sometimes at short notice. I have been asked dozens of times and been twice. But it relies on the people in the party organisation getting them out to the people who might attend and then checking and chasing to make sure that they do.
It looks about 60% Labour to me judging on who’s clapping. Are we saying the Tories, Lib Dems and SNP all completely failed to chase up their people? I quite hope Boris gets a tough reaction on arrival, it’ll make it look like a stitch up to the TV viewers.
He will get heckled laughed at and booed during his answers...
I take back what I said earlier. The BBC have messed this up royally. A thoroughly biased audience.
It is not acceptable and needs to be reviewed by ofcom
Why?
It is biased and just wrong
You can’t really say that until the end. So far all of them have had warm applause on arrival, all had tough questions and arguments, and all won some applause from the audience. If Bozo manages the same (assuming he doesn’t make a complete mess of it) you can’t really allege bias
It was easy on Sturgeon and outright aggressive on Swinson.
I will see how Boris handles it but there must be about 75% against Boris
If it were representative you’d expect about 60% against Boris plus a fair few of the Tories who don’t like him personally.
Audience absolutely stacked with Labour activists. Some called to speak didn't even ask a question, just gave a socialist speech
It does seem unbalanced
Makes up for all BBC journalist being Tories!!
You really are deluded if you believe that.
@bbclaura minister for propaganda. Marr Tory Newsnight edited by a Tory Maitless Tory A Neil Tory.
You said all BBC journalists. You could have have said most, or many, or all the prominent ones, but you didn't. you made a deliberately preposterous claim.
You mention Marr there - who started his political life as a Trotsykyite. You fail to mention Evan Davis who is avowedly left wing - but also an excellent journalist and presenter. Or Paul Mason, former economics editor at the BBC and also extremely left wing - and also quite mad. There are many, many more that could be mentioned but of course you don't care about them because they don't fit your own blinkered world view.
Before his journalistic days at least, Evan Davis was extremely (economically) right wing. And a rabid Brexiter.
Evan Davies has pierced nipples. And today you have learned something.
And Corbyn acknowledges Marriage Allowance removal - now will the media finally pick up on it?
That is ridiculous. Why should a family with one partner earning 10k and the other 50k pay more tax than one where both partners earn 30k?
Individuals pay income tax, not families. And it isn’t any business of the Revenue worrying about people’s conjugal circumstances. A fine opportunity to do some badly needed tax simplification and get rid of it.
We give rich people a massive tax break for being married, through IHT and CGT. Why shouldn't people lower down the food chain also get a benefit?
I do think revoke has backfired and the only chance of it succeeding was if Johnson didn’t get a deal and the election was being fought with that v Remain .
The problem is Swinson is getting shit from all sides. And is still copping flak for the coalition years, which is very telling. Very little support for her here.
Feel sorry for her.
If the audience are not representative of the public at large then reacting calmly to unfair attacks could work in favour of the politician attacked, and being given an easy ride work badly for a leader fawned over.
I think too much is made of a supposed bias in the audience. It's whether the people at home share that bias that matters and if they don't I think they'll form their own view on how the politician deals with a hostile audience.
Fair point. But it's her own reactions that are as telling as the questions she's getting for me.
Audience absolutely stacked with Labour activists. Some called to speak didn't even ask a question, just gave a socialist speech
It does seem unbalanced
Makes up for all BBC journalist being Tories!!
You really are deluded if you believe that.
@bbclaura minister for propaganda. Marr Tory Newsnight edited by a Tory Maitless Tory A Neil Tory.
You said all BBC journalists. You could have have said most, or many, or all the prominent ones, but you didn't. you made a deliberately preposterous claim.
You mention Marr there - who started his political life as a Trotsykyite. You fail to mention Evan Davis who is avowedly left wing - but also an excellent journalist and presenter. Or Paul Mason, former economics editor at the BBC and also extremely left wing - and also quite mad. There are many, many more that could be mentioned but of course you don't care about them because they don't fit your own blinkered world view.
Before his journalistic days at least, Evan Davis was extremely (economically) right wing. And a rabid Brexiter.
Evan Davies has pierced nipples. And today you have learned something.
And a Prince Albert by repute too (not in a position to confirm or deny).
What is it with socialists? They all think that every individual's life must be micro managed by the state. When's the last time anyone heard a single politician mention personal responsibility? It's so very depressing.
There is no way to seriously reduce inequality without a bigger state. Therefore if seriously reducing inequality is your political priority you will want a bigger state. This is the essence of it.
I take back what I said earlier. The BBC have messed this up royally. A thoroughly biased audience.
More likely to be Tory HQ that messed up, if indeed the audience is indeed unbalanced rather than differentially vocal, since I am sure the BBC shared out the invitations
It’s very easy to dupe the producers I imagine. How can they check your background?
Corbyn was getting applause for every answer and Swinson is getting none. Not that I think this debate will have any effect on the polls.
For normal question time a chunk at least of the seats is channeled out through the political parties. Normally they find their way to the local parties in the area where its being filmed, if sometimes at short notice. I have been asked dozens of times and been twice. But it relies on the people in the party organisation getting them out to the people who might attend and then checking and chasing to make sure that they do.
It looks about 60% Labour to me judging on who’s clapping. Are we saying the Tories, Lib Dems and SNP all completely failed to chase up their people? I quite hope Boris gets a tough reaction on arrival, it’ll make it look like a stitch up to the TV viewers.
He will get heckled laughed at and booed during his answers...
If he stays strong and does not panic then that won't hurt him, but if he goes all deer in the headlights, or robotically mentioning his main policy over and over, it will cost him a bit. Mood music is hardly definitive, but if Labour believe they are on a roll, or Tories lose some confidence, it has an impact.
The problem is Swinson is getting shit from all sides. And is still copping flak for the coalition years, which is very telling. Very little support for her here.
Feel sorry for her.
But more important is how five million people see her at home.
She’s knocked the shrillness on the head, appeared reasonable and open in admitting coalition mistakes - and against some grumpy Corbynites who look like they’ve been sucking lemons, she’s put up a good show for the Waitrose classes in the south.
I do think revoke has backfired and the only chance of it succeeding was if Johnson didn’t get a deal and the election was being fought with that v Remain .
I think she got a boner when she saw the 6 million signatures on the Revoke petition.
It was a lot of people expressing their desire to reverse Brexit but she took it literally.
Another thing that's depressing - and alarming - is how easily millions of people and an entire political and media establishment can just collectively write off the biggest democratic process this country has ever seen. Imagine the reaction from the same people if we were some far flung Third World country trying to actively reverse an election. It's horrifying.
Regardless of the result of this election it's truly scary that 30% of the electorate are up for voting for a Marxist manifesto.
It’s not a Marxist manifesto.
Err, yes it is.
Yes it is - it would be a disaster
The nationalization plans and return to 70’s style trade union rights coupled with the lunatic proposals of sector wide collective bargaining is what destroys their manifesto.it detracts from those things that people could sign up to quite willingly as yet again the current Labour Party sell those that need it most down the river as there will not be a labour government.
The problem is Swinson is getting shit from all sides. And is still copping flak for the coalition years, which is very telling. Very little support for her here.
Feel sorry for her.
But more important is how five million people see her at home.
She’s knocked the shrillness on the head, appeared reasonable and open in admitting coalition mistakes - and against some grumpy Corbynites who look like they’ve been sucking lemons, she’s put up a good show for the Waitrose classes in the south.
She will appeal to the diehard Remainers, a clear stop Brexit plan opposed to Corbyn's Brexit neutrality.
However her record in the Coalition means the left will never vote for her, it would take someone coming from.Labour like Chuka or Luciana Berger for the LDs to make serious inroads with centre left voters
Audience absolutely stacked with Labour activists. Some called to speak didn't even ask a question, just gave a socialist speech
It does seem unbalanced
Makes up for all BBC journalist being Tories!!
You really are deluded if you believe that.
@bbclaura minister for propaganda. Marr Tory Newsnight edited by a Tory Maitless Tory A Neil Tory.
You said all BBC journalists. You could have have said most, or many, or all the prominent ones, but you didn't. you made a deliberately preposterous claim.
You mention Marr there - who started his political life as a Trotsykyite. You fail to mention Evan Davis who is avowedly left wing - but also an excellent journalist and presenter. Or Paul Mason, former economics editor at the BBC and also extremely left wing - and also quite mad. There are many, many more that could be mentioned but of course you don't care about them because they don't fit your own blinkered world view.
Before his journalistic days at least, Evan Davis was extremely (economically) right wing. And a rabid Brexiter.
LOL. That is quite remarkable. Not laughing at you, just at different perceptions. Davis is regarded by Brexit supporters as being staunchly anti-Brexit and attacking Brexit supporters whenever he has interviewed or commentated on them. Just go and look at all the articles about his anti-Brexit bias.
Funny how someone can be viewed so differently from different sides.
Audience absolutely stacked with Labour activists. Some called to speak didn't even ask a question, just gave a socialist speech
It does seem unbalanced
Makes up for all BBC journalist being Tories!!
You really are deluded if you believe that.
@bbclaura minister for propaganda. Marr Tory Newsnight edited by a Tory Maitless Tory A Neil Tory.
You said all BBC journalists. You could have have said most, or many, or all the prominent ones, but you didn't. you made a deliberately preposterous claim.
You mention Marr there - who started his political life as a Trotsykyite. You fail to mention Evan Davis who is avowedly left wing - but also an excellent journalist and presenter. Or Paul Mason, former economics editor at the BBC and also extremely left wing - and also quite mad. There are many, many more that could be mentioned but of course you don't care about them because they don't fit your own blinkered world view.
Before his journalistic days at least, Evan Davis was extremely (economically) right wing. And a rabid Brexiter.
LOL. That is quite remarkable. Not laughing at you, just at different perceptions. Davis is regarded by Brexit supporters as being staunchly anti-Brexit and attacking Brexit supporters whenever he has interviewed or commentated on them. Just go and look at all the articles about his anti-Brexit bias.
Funny how someone can be viewed so differently from different sides.
He taught one of the economics courses when I did my MBA in the 90s. It was a small class heavy discussion format and over a term there wasn’t any mistaking what Davis’s views were. He was rabidly anti EU, no doubt whatsoever. Either he’s matured into a more left wing persona or he has trimmed how he comes across for the BBC. Or maybe he is just clever enough to have realised what a pile of pants Brexit has turned into.
Audience absolutely stacked with Labour activists. Some called to speak didn't even ask a question, just gave a socialist speech
It does seem unbalanced
Makes up for all BBC journalist being Tories!!
You really are deluded if you believe that.
@bbclaura minister for propaganda. Marr Tory Newsnight edited by a Tory Maitless Tory A Neil Tory.
You said all BBC journalists. You could have have said most, or many, or all the prominent ones, but you didn't. you made a deliberately preposterous claim.
You mention Marr there - who started his political life as a Trotsykyite. You fail to mention Evan Davis who is avowedly left wing - but also an excellent journalist and presenter. Or Paul Mason, former economics editor at the BBC and also extremely left wing - and also quite mad. There are many, many more that could be mentioned but of course you don't care about them because they don't fit your own blinkered world view.
Before his journalistic days at least, Evan Davis was extremely (economically) right wing. And a rabid Brexiter.
Evan Davies has pierced nipples. And today you have learned something.
And a Prince Albert by repute too (not in a position to confirm or deny).
Well if he has three rings attached, he can be winched by a helicopter. Which has gotta be handy when the need arises.
The problem is Swinson is getting shit from all sides. And is still copping flak for the coalition years, which is very telling. Very little support for her here.
Feel sorry for her.
But more important is how five million people see her at home.
She’s knocked the shrillness on the head, appeared reasonable and open in admitting coalition mistakes - and against some grumpy Corbynites who look like they’ve been sucking lemons, she’s put up a good show for the Waitrose classes in the south.
She will appeal to the diehard Remainers, a clear stop Brexit plan opposed to Corbyn's Brexit neutrality.
However her record in the Coalition means the left will never vote for her
The Corbyn loyalists won’t. But that leaves a lot of Blairite Labour up for grabs.
I’m still amazed at the hate LibDems get for the coalition. They had a seventh of the seats and could only expect a seventh of the influence. I’d say they probably got that (and given what’s come since can reasonably argue they had a restraining influence on the right wing of the Tories (albeit that this was useful for Cameron).
As with the head to head debate I am not watching this as I think it is pointless and damaging to our democracy. But it is absolutely fascinating to see the reactions on here, not to the participants, but to the audience.
As with the head to head debate I am not watching this as I think it is pointless and damaging to our democracy. But it is absolutely fascinating to see the reactions on here, not to the participants, but to the audience.
Whilst there clearly are Labour activists in the audience, it is sad how quick Tories are to call bias, before even Bozo had appeared. Sometimes having enjoyed majority power on the back of a minority vote they seem to forget that all the parties are actually in a minority in the country.
Comments
Clearly, governments always like big GDP/employment figures, and for some reason, caring for someone else's kids counts towards that but caring for your own doesn't.
I will see how Boris handles it but there must be about 75% against Boris
Unilateral revocation. What a catastrophic misjudgment.
(Ignore this post: I just worked out you meant "cow")
Swinson getting murdered.
Complete car crash.
Come on LDs clap her ffs.
I know someone might throw you a fish but come on
I think too much is made of a supposed bias in the audience. It's whether the people at home share that bias that matters and if they don't I think they'll form their own view on how the politician deals with a hostile audience.
A region of 5 million people has a greater chance of working (still an urban-rural split, but similar range to Scotland, I’d say).
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
But, that's not what this election is about.
She’s knocked the shrillness on the head, appeared reasonable and open in admitting coalition mistakes - and against some grumpy Corbynites who look like they’ve been sucking lemons, she’s put up a good show for the Waitrose classes in the south.
It was a lot of people expressing their desire to reverse Brexit but she took it literally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoASZyihalc
However her record in the Coalition means the left will never vote for her, it would take someone coming from.Labour like Chuka or Luciana Berger for the LDs to make serious inroads with centre left voters
Funny how someone can be viewed so differently from different sides.
PS. Corbyn was surprisingly good.
Some Tory who thinks Corbyn is the devil incarnate started the questions
Your mum comes from India.
In India cows are sacred.
Ergo...Swinson is sacred?
I can't help thinking this is not the conclusion you wanted to draw...
boos already lol this is awful.
And lots of cheers for Bozo.
I’m still amazed at the hate LibDems get for the coalition. They had a seventh of the seats and could only expect a seventh of the influence. I’d say they probably got that (and given what’s come since can reasonably argue they had a restraining influence on the right wing of the Tories (albeit that this was useful for Cameron).