EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
Yes, but I don't think it means as much as you think it does. Corbyn and Boris both have people who passionately hate them or distrust them, yet millions upon millions will vote for both, and each has people who passionately adore them and trusts them. We'll find out who has more of those, and how many are willing to stomach them, in a few weeks, but there's absolutely no reason to get excited because an audience reacts badly to either of them. That's no more logical than finding a clip of people cheering them and using that as proof they are beloved.
Listening to the 9.30 radio news. Main headline is Corbyn staying neutral on Brexit, together with confirmation that Lib Dems would revoke, cons would GBD and Scot Nats favour independence feom the UK. Not sure if this represents a PR win for anyone or not.
3 out of 4 have got their preferred message out.
1 of the 4's preferred message has shot them in the foot but c'est la vie.
But what is Lab's preferred message on Brexit? It appears to be to negotiate a deal so terrible and lacking in advantage and anything that any Brexit voter at all wanted that it gets defeated in a referendum. This is a difficult sell to either Remainers or Leavers. In the circumstances, a soundbite of remaining neutral is possibly the least bad way of putting it.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the woke millenial outrage over what he has written the swing votes this time are the northern and Midlands working classes who, for example, might attend bawdy comedy nights in working men's clubs and dont give a shit about how hurty some words were. Straight talking spade is a spade get Brexit done voters Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
The audience not worried about the economy, unemployment, defence, human rights or getting Brexit done under Boris - their only concern is his shagging.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
Yes Leavers will vote positively for Boris, Remainers will not vote positively for Corbyn and on that performance not really for Swinson either
Swinsons performance was fine what did she do wrong? Every question was loaded against her and she defended well tell us what was wrong with her performance
I thought she was almost abused by the audience and did cope well with it but at times I thought she wanted to be anywhere but there. The revoke policy was an unnecessary mistake of immense proportions not helped by her proclaiming she would be PM
I actually think she is a decent person but is unlikely to revive the lib dems
This crowd are brutal , shame for Bozo he’s on last . More people will be watching .
Many will have turned over for Corrie but he is doing very well anyway
This is desperate spin , he started off okay and has gone downhill ever since .
It is not desperate spin, the only desperate spin is coming from leftwingers desperately trying and failing to undermine Boris
Indeed. And none of then citing specifics.
What did he say about longest waiting lists worst ever A&E numbers worst ever cancer numbers that he was asked.
Fook All
He is putting in more money and will have more money to put in further still when we get Brexit done
9 years of cuts whilst top rate taxpayers have a bonanza.
Real Change is needed.
Destruction of the economy is real change I suppose.
But no thanks
Would every Labour government always wreck the economy?
In my lifetime they have always left it in a mess - but this time they going full on mental socialism.
Because that always works right.
The charge is always laid against them that they will wreck the economy. I think the reality is there have been some hideous self made recessions and bad mistakes made under the conservatives to. But it’s a very long argument, pointing out the 10 years of Blair economy seemed okay but mistakes probably made then that created the crash people on labour side try to say was banks and sub prime in US and not wholly U.K. government fault, likewise problems labour had in seventies was inheriting an over heating economy they poured heat onto to fulfil election promises when really they should have cooled it down. So we will argue, but not come to a conclusive answer, Imo
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the woke millenial outrage over what he has written the swing votes this time are the northern and Midlands working classes who, for example, might attend bawdy comedy nights in working men's clubs and dont give a shit about how hurty some words were. Straight talking spade is a spade get Brexit done voters Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
What a wonderful progressive future you are predicting bring back Jim Davidson and Benny hill, why stop at that also the black and white minstrels
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
Yes Leavers will vote positively for Boris, Remainers will not vote positively for Corbyn and on that performance not really for Swinson either
Swinsons performance was fine what did she do wrong? Every question was loaded against her and she defended well tell us what was wrong with her performance
I thought she was almost abused by the audience and did cope well with it but at times I thought she wanted to be anywhere but there. The revoke policy was an unnecessary mistake of immense proportions not helped by her proclaiming she would be PM
I actually think she is a decent person but is unlikely to revive the lib dems</blockquot
I only saw a short clip but felt really bad for her and I'm not a fan.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
Yes Leavers will vote positively for Boris, Remainers will not vote positively for Corbyn and on that performance not really for Swinson either
Swinsons performance was fine what did she do wrong? Every question was loaded against her and she defended well tell us what was wrong with her performance
I thought she was almost abused by the audience and did cope well with it but at times I thought she wanted to be anywhere but there. The revoke policy was an unnecessary mistake of immense proportions not helped by her proclaiming she would be PM
I actually think she is a decent person but is unlikely to revive the lib dems
Why didn’t they just stick with 2nd ref rather than revoke? Revoke is too much like don’t care about uniting the country or being fair to 17 million voters, just exploit the division for a nice haul of seats.
I suspect its more that last time their campaigning and manifesto seemed to make things worse (if not in reducing poll share, in seeing Corbyn rise). Even if that was more down to Corbyn than them, I think they want to do as little as possible to impact what is currently a good score.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the woke millenial outrage over what he has written the swing votes this time are the northern and Midlands working classes who, for example, might attend bawdy comedy nights in working men's clubs and dont give a shit about how hurty some words were. Straight talking spade is a spade get Brexit done voters Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
What a wonderful progressive future you are predicting bring back Jim Davidson and Benny hill, why stop at that also the black and white minstrels
Commendable leadership so he can get two best possible options (remain and a trade with EU) and put them to the public. He understands the country is split.
He reasonably feels that will be the most unifying approach.
The Tory approach will take MUCH longer - the withdrawal agreement is only the start, we haven't started down the thorny road of trade deals whilst keeping the ERG on side.
Really? I am already halfway through delivering 4000 Tory leaflets across Epping and am canvassing again in Chingford tomorrow where teams are out across the day.
Boris is campaigning across the country and the Tory social media operation is also far better than 2017
Commendable leadership so he can get two best possible options and put them to the public. He understands the country is split. He reasonably feels that will be the most unifying approach.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
On the spreads today, Labour are up by 4 seats, having gained 2 from the Tories and 2 from the LibDems who hit a new low point. I'm not sure whether these movements took place before, during or after tonight's so-called TV debate. Based on Spreadex's mid-spread for the Tories of 342 seats, they are anticipating an overall majority for the Blue Team of 34 seats.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
The audience not worried about the economy, unemployment, defence, human rights or getting Brexit done under Boris - their only concern is his shagging.
Shows how unconcerned they are about competence.
It’s not the shagging, though “wiki says you number of children is 5 or 6, can you clear that up please” would be a good question from audience member.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the woke millenial outrage over what he has written the swing votes this time are the northern and Midlands working classes who, for example, might attend bawdy comedy nights in working men's clubs and dont give a shit about how hurty some words were. Straight talking spade is a spade get Brexit done voters Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the woke millenial outrage over what he has written the swing votes this time are the northern and Midlands working classes who, for example, might attend bawdy comedy nights in working men's clubs and dont give a shit about how hurty some words were. Straight talking spade is a spade get Brexit done voters Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
What a wonderful progressive future you are predicting bring back Jim Davidson and Benny hill, why stop at that also the black and white minstrels
Nonsense. I'm merely pointing out who is going to decide this election and it's not the cringingly woke right on brigade. I'm not sure why you assume 'progressive' is in some way better, in fact so called progressives tend to be very draconian in their approach to free speech and thought. On a wider note, the race to be as hideously right on as possible and show one is an 'ally' to everyone imaginable (and always that bit more so than the next guy) is what brings us to women with penises demanding access to women's refuges. It is utterly repugnant. We can be tolerant and accepting of (for example) trans issues without allowing third wave radical bullshit
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I think Corbyn getting his turn in number ten has a sort of symmetry to it the way brexit has been going.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I think Corbyn getting his turn in number ten has a sort of symmetry to it the way brexit has been going.
Out it would then go.
At least 2017 warned me so I’ve done something about it 😁
Really? I am already halfway through delivering 4000 Tory leaflets across Epping and am canvassing again in Chingford tomorrow where teams are out across the day.
Boris is campaigning across the country and the Tory social media operation is also far better than 2017
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
Yes Leavers will vote positively for Boris, Remainers will not vote positively for Corbyn and on that performance not really for Swinson either
Swinsons performance was fine what did she do wrong? Every question was loaded against her and she defended well tell us what was wrong with her performance
I thought she was almost abused by the audience and did cope well with it but at times I thought she wanted to be anywhere but there. The revoke policy was an unnecessary mistake of immense proportions not helped by her proclaiming she would be PM
I actually think she is a decent person but is unlikely to revive the lib dems
Why didn’t they just stick with 2nd ref rather than revoke? Revoke is too much like don’t care about uniting the country or being fair to 17 million voters, just exploit the division for a nice haul of seats.
Absolutely. And they could have made huge progress
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the woke millenial outrage over what he has written the swing votes this time are the northern and Midlands working classes who, for example, might attend bawdy comedy nights in working men's clubs and dont give a shit about how hurty some words were. Straight talking spade is a spade get Brexit done voters Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
I wouldn't give a shit what he'd written if it hadn't led directly to women getting attacked in the street. Joe average will get a rude awakening a few years into this government of Etonians who - guess what - really don't care about Joe average. I am getting so tired of this culture war nonsense, it's just like Trump, appealing to uneducated white men by thinly coded attacks on women and minorities. Pathetic that people can't see how they're being manipulated.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
Yes Leavers will vote positively for Boris, Remainers will not vote positively for Corbyn and on that performance not really for Swinson either
Swinsons performance was fine what did she do wrong? Every question was loaded against her and she defended well tell us what was wrong with her performance
I thought she was almost abused by the audience and did cope well with it but at times I thought she wanted to be anywhere but there. The revoke policy was an unnecessary mistake of immense proportions not helped by her proclaiming she would be PM
I actually think she is a decent person but is unlikely to revive the lib dems
Why didn’t they just stick with 2nd ref rather than revoke? Revoke is too much like don’t care about uniting the country or being fair to 17 million voters, just exploit the division for a nice haul of seats.
Absolutely. And they could have made huge progress
They could still. The election hasn’t happened yet. FWIW, I think the vacuum in the middle will help: many will regard both Johnson and Corbyn as unacceptable PMs, so it’s a question of opting for the only available alternative.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the woke millenial outrage over what he has written the swing votes this time are the northern and Midlands working classes who, for example, might attend bawdy comedy nights in working men's clubs and dont give a shit about how hurty some words were. Straight talking spade is a spade get Brexit done voters Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
I wouldn't give a shit what he'd written if it hadn't led directly to women getting attacked in the street. Joe average will get a rude awakening a few years into this government of Etonians who - guess what - really don't care about Joe average. I am getting so tired of this culture war nonsense, it's just like Trump, appealing to uneducated white men by thinly coded attacks on women and minorities. Pathetic that people can't see how they're being manipulated.
However the truly pathetic thing is the 3 and a half years of politicians and the Lawyer Boy and Gina Millers of this world doing everything they can to overturn the referendum. The Boris govt will deliver it and if, after that, they abandon the voters that put them there theyll get booted in 2024.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I think Corbyn getting his turn in number ten has a sort of symmetry to it the way brexit has been going.
Out it would then go.
At least 2017 warned me so I’ve done something about it 😁
One thing I would warn you though, when the reds took control of Russia in 1920s there was money to be made from the change. When people start pouring money in, heating things up, the initial impacts won’t be Venezuela today, the bankruptcy and burying valuables in bottom of the garden in Bolton comes later. Remember when brown tried to prevent recession by throwing money at it there was bargains for shoppers? Make the most of the easy money and giveaways and keep an eye out for ugly downturn. If they are slung out after 4 years it might not even be that bad overall. Mind you, what I say may be true, but it’s not the message Cummings wants out there
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the woke millenial outrage over what he has written the swing votes this time are the northern and Midlands working classes who, for example, might attend bawdy comedy nights in working men's clubs and dont give a shit about how hurty some words were. Straight talking spade is a spade get Brexit done voters Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
I wouldn't give a shit what he'd written if it hadn't led directly to women getting attacked in the street. Joe average will get a rude awakening a few years into this government of Etonians who - guess what - really don't care about Joe average. I am getting so tired of this culture war nonsense, it's just like Trump, appealing to uneducated white men by thinly coded attacks on women and minorities. Pathetic that people can't see how they're being manipulated.
Boris gives far more concern for the views of the average man on the street than the average Islington diehard Remainer
Commendable leadership so he can get two best possible options and put them to the public. He understands the country is split. He reasonably feels that will be the most unifying approach.
Even you can't possibly believe that 😂
Really, which bit can't I believe, and care to set-out why so?
A referendum with a real outcome is necessary (rather than a lie telling people there'd be an easy deal, loads of money, and single market as people were falsely told). The Tory government had more than 3 years, and got a deal and expected parliament to agree it in 3 days or crash out.
If you're inferring Corbyn also has his own and political reasoning, then I concede that bit. But regardless, the Lab/Green/SNP/PC/SF/ALL/SDLP position (and to an extent the LD position) is a far far better position than the Tories, far better for the economy and far better for Northern Ireland and far better for avoiding a worse decline into ongoing 'dithering' about Brexit and economic harm - the Tories plan would mean years of wrangling. We have no clue what actual long-term plan they have - only the withdrawal agreement which is just the start.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the woke millenial outrage over what he has written the swing votes this time are the northern and Midlands working classes who, for example, might attend bawdy comedy nights in working men's clubs and dont give a shit about how hurty some words were. Straight talking spade is a spade get Brexit done voters Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
I wouldn't give a shit what he'd written if it hadn't led directly to women getting attacked in the street. Joe average will get a rude awakening a few years into this government of Etonians who - guess what - really don't care about Joe average. I am getting so tired of this culture war nonsense, it's just like Trump, appealing to uneducated white men by thinly coded attacks on women and minorities. Pathetic that people can't see how they're being manipulated.
However the truly pathetic thing is the 3 and a half years of politicians and the Lawyer Boy and Gina Millers of this world doing everything they can to overturn the referendum. The Boris govt will deliver it and if, after that, they abandon the voters that put them there theyll get booted in 2024.
If the leavers had a plan for delivering Brexit in a way that didn't fuck the economy it would have happened by now. The plan is now to fuck the economy in the first year of a five year term and spend the next four years hoping things improve. The economy is already in trouble, the flash PMI surveys for November were dire.
Really? I am already halfway through delivering 4000 Tory leaflets across Epping and am canvassing again in Chingford tomorrow where teams are out across the day.
Boris is campaigning across the country and the Tory social media operation is also far better than 2017
How marginal is ching ford feeling?
I will tell you tomorrow, the British Italian conservatives are coming too.
Though from the canvassing I have had the only Tories defecting have been to the LDs, I have yet to find one moving to Corbyn Labour, on the whole Leavers are behind IDS though especially now the Brexit Party are not standing Momentum are pushing it hard
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I think Corbyn getting his turn in number ten has a sort of symmetry to it the way brexit has been going.
Out it would then go.
At least 2017 warned me so I’ve done something about it 😁
One thing I would warn you though, when the reds took control of Russia in 1920s there was money to be made from the change. When people start pouring money in, heating things up, the initial impacts won’t be Venezuela today, the bankruptcy and burying valuables in bottom of the garden in Bolton comes later. Remember when brown tried to prevent recession by throwing money at it there was bargains for shoppers? Make the most of the easy money and giveaways and keep an eye out for ugly downturn. If they are slung out after 4 years it might not even be that bad overall. Mind you, what I say may be true, but it’s not the message Cummings wants out there
Listen if Jezza wants to seriously implement his bat shit crazed policies, exchange controls are on the cards, not that that’ll appear in the manifesto. I remember the 50 quid limit in the 70’s. It was fuck all even then.
The polls should narrow this coming Saturday evening, however the key question is will they widen again after the Tory manifesto is released on Sunday?
I missed all the fun and games. Sounds like another ranty shouty more heat than light type of event.
I have just come back from dinner with a former big Corbyn fan / Team Red all their life / Remainer. They are of course still going to vote Labour, but now have little to say about Jezza and Brexit, the response was I'm sick of it, just get it done now. When I said, what about Labour's re-re-renegotiation followed by a 2nd referendum...lets just say the response was unpublishable.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
Yes Leavers will vote positively for Boris, Remainers will not vote positively for Corbyn and on that performance not really for Swinson either
Swinsons performance was fine what did she do wrong? Every question was loaded against her and she defended well tell us what was wrong with her performance
I thought she was almost abused by the audience and did cope well with it but at times I thought she wanted to be anywhere but there. The revoke policy was an unnecessary mistake of immense proportions not helped by her proclaiming she would be PM
I actually think she is a decent person but is unlikely to revive the lib dems
Why didn’t they just stick with 2nd ref rather than revoke? Revoke is too much like don’t care about uniting the country or being fair to 17 million voters, just exploit the division for a nice haul of seats.
Absolutely. And they could have made huge progress
Indeed. The LibDems made 2 massive strategic errors with the revoke policy and the PM Swinson meme which seem likely to cost them their opportunity to make serious inroads against Corbyn's extremists.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the woke millenial outrage over what he has written the swing votes this time are the northern and Midlands working classes who, for example, might attend bawdy comedy nights in working men's clubs and dont give a shit about how hurty some words were. Straight talking spade is a spade get Brexit done voters Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
So you think he has the misogynist and racist vote sewed up? I think so too.
Really? I am already halfway through delivering 4000 Tory leaflets across Epping and am canvassing again in Chingford tomorrow where teams are out across the day.
Boris is campaigning across the country and the Tory social media operation is also far better than 2017
How marginal is ching ford feeling?
I think Chingford will be a pretty comfortable Conservative hold.
Commendable leadership so he can get two best possible options and put them to the public. He understands the country is split. He reasonably feels that will be the most unifying approach.
Even you can't possibly believe that 😂
Really, which bit can't I believe, and care to set-out why so?
A referendum with a real outcome is necessary (rather than a lie telling people there'd be an easy deal, loads of money, and single market as people were falsely told). The Tory government had more than 3 years, and got a deal and expected parliament to agree it in 3 days or crash out.
If you're inferring Corbyn also has his own and political reasoning, then I concede that bit. But regardless, the Lab/Green/SNP/PC/SF/ALL/SDLP position (and to an extent the LD position) is a far far better position than the Tories, far better for the economy and far better for Northern Ireland and far better for avoiding a worse decline into ongoing 'dithering' about Brexit and economic harm - the Tories plan would mean years of wrangling. We have no clue what actual long-term plan they have - only the withdrawal agreement which is just the start.
If you think we should Remain then say so, not stay neutral.
If you think we should Leave then say why and what benefits we'll get from Leaving, not stay neutral.
What benefits will we get from Corbyn's Leave but remain in single market, remain in customs union and keep free movement deal?
Only saw Swinson and Bo-Jo. What a Momentum packed audience. Swinson has the hardest time, thought she stood her ground well. Boris had a bit easier time, he was a bit blustery but not as bad I had feared.
What did I say about the Lib Dem revoke policy when they announced it....
All they had to do is say I think we should have a referendum on the deal, put out some sensible middle of the road orange book type policies and hoover up all those middle class liberal type votes.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I think Corbyn getting his turn in number ten has a sort of symmetry to it the way brexit has been going.
Out it would then go.
At least 2017 warned me so I’ve done something about it 😁
One thing I would warn you though, when the reds took control of Russia in 1920s there was money to be made from the change. When people start pouring money in, heating things up, the initial impacts won’t be Venezuela today, the bankruptcy and burying valuables in bottom of the garden in Bolton comes later. Remember when brown tried to prevent recession by throwing money at it there was bargains for shoppers? Make the most of the easy money and giveaways and keep an eye out for ugly downturn. If they are slung out after 4 years it might not even be that bad overall. Mind you, what I say may be true, but it’s not the message Cummings wants out there
Listen if Jezza wants to seriously implement his bat shit crazed policies, exchange controls are on the cards, not that that’ll appear in the manifesto. I remember the 50 quid limit in the 70’s. It was fuck all even then.
I will take no chances.
How would exchange controls even operate in the more electronically linked world of 2019?
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the woke millenial outrage over what he has written the swing votes this time are the northern and Midlands working classes who, for example, might attend bawdy comedy nights in working men's clubs and dont give a shit about how hurty some words were. Straight talking spade is a spade get Brexit done voters Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
I wouldn't give a shit what he'd written if it hadn't led directly to women getting attacked in the street. Joe average will get a rude awakening a few years into this government of Etonians who - guess what - really don't care about Joe average. I am getting so tired of this culture war nonsense, it's just like Trump, appealing to uneducated white men by thinly coded attacks on women and minorities. Pathetic that people can't see how they're being manipulated.
Boris gives far more concern for the views of the average man on the street than the average Islington diehard Remainer
Give over. Plenty of "men in the street" are Remainers. Some of them even live in Islington. Johnson doesn't give a monkeys about ordinary people, he just wants to have a whiff of power and a regular supply of iffy shags.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the woke millenial outrage over what he has written the swing votes this time are the northern and Midlands working classes who, for example, might attend bawdy comedy nights in working men's clubs and dont give a shit about how hurty some words were. Straight talking spade is a spade get Brexit done voters Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
So you think he has the misogynist and racist vote sewed up? I think so too.
It's that sort of offhand, sneering dismissal of the working class vote that will make the utter trashing of labour and the idiot Swinsonites an utter joy
Only saw Swinson and Bo-Jo. What a Momentum packed audience. Swinson has the hardest time, thought she stood her ground well. Boris had a bit easier time, he was a bit blustery but not as bad I had feared.
Isn't it amusing how Momentum types hate splitters within the Labour movement [and by extension the Lib Dems since they view them as splitters too] more than they hate the Tories themselves.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
Yes Leavers will vote positively for Boris, Remainers will not vote positively for Corbyn and on that performance not really for Swinson either
Swinsons performance was fine what did she do wrong? Every question was loaded against her and she defended well tell us what was wrong with her performance
I thought she was almost abused by the audience and did cope well with it but at times I thought she wanted to be anywhere but there. The revoke policy was an unnecessary mistake of immense proportions not helped by her proclaiming she would be PM
I actually think she is a decent person but is unlikely to revive the lib dems
Why didn’t they just stick with 2nd ref rather than revoke? Revoke is too much like don’t care about uniting the country or being fair to 17 million voters, just exploit the division for a nice haul of seats.
Absolutely. And they could have made huge progress
They could still. The election hasn’t happened yet. FWIW, I think the vacuum in the middle will help: many will regard both Johnson and Corbyn as unacceptable PMs, so it’s a question of opting for the only available alternative.
When it comes to who will be PM there is no alternative to Johnson and Corbyn, and that's the Lib Dems' major problem. All those voters who might otherwise be inclined to back them but won't, because Jo Swinson is obviously not a realistic prospect for PM, and they're afraid that voting for her party will simply end up empowering whichever of the two actual candidates they detest the most.
So yes, there are plenty of voters who believe both men are unfit for high office. But almost all of those voters think one of them is vastly more unfit than the other, and will therefore back whichever man they merely distrust in order to attempt to thwart the one of which they are terrified.
Sturgeon presented best, though wasn't tackled as much as the others.
Corbyn was clear, made the right points, and answered (most of) the actual questions, far better than the bumbling, fact-less and inarticulate Johnson, the only one who couldn't even remember each question when a series was put.
The presenter pulled up Johnson and Corbyn well, though when it got to Johnson the audience didn't *seem* to get as many follow-ons/come-backs as with the others.
Even Swinson was better, though she was either attacked more, or perhaps dealt worse with it (by actually being more responsive).
Yet again Johnson relies on his bumbling 'charisma' to push on. I regret that many watching may go for the personality before the (lack of) policy.
Corbyn seems to take days or weeks to take positions on issues that are obviously going to come up and need clarifying. Issues he could deal with immediately, but instead he seems to let them fester (out of stubbornness) until they become sores; by which time it is too little too late.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I am not a fan of Corbyn but I really, genuinely, find it totally incomprehensible that seemingly rational people treat the prospect of him becoming PM in such 'end of days' ways.
Just think about it for a minute. Corbyn as PM will never be able to implement anything more more left-wing than the kind of social democracy seen on and off acros much of western Europe since the war. He will be moderated by rebel soft-left Labour MPs, not to mention his almost certain need to bring along coalition partners.
A Corbyn-led government may not be what you'd choose life will go on, unchanged for many, a bit better for some, a bit worse for others.
Really? I am already halfway through delivering 4000 Tory leaflets across Epping and am canvassing again in Chingford tomorrow where teams are out across the day.
Boris is campaigning across the country and the Tory social media operation is also far better than 2017
How marginal is ching ford feeling?
I will tell you tomorrow, the British Italian conservatives are coming too.
Though from the canvassing I have had the only Tories defecting have been to the LDs, I have yet to find one moving to Corbyn Labour, on the whole Leavers are behind IDS though especially now the Brexit Party are not standing Momentum are pushing it hard
You have the Italians because they are good at making voters offers they can’t refuse?
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the woke millenial outrage over what he has written the swing votes this time are the northern and Midlands working classes who, for example, might attend bawdy comedy nights in working men's clubs and dont give a shit about how hurty some words were. Straight talking spade is a spade get Brexit done voters Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
I wouldn't give a shit what he'd written if it hadn't led directly to women getting attacked in the street. Joe average will get a rude awakening a few years into this government of Etonians who - guess what - really don't care about Joe average. I am getting so tired of this culture war nonsense, it's just like Trump, appealing to uneducated white men by thinly coded attacks on women and minorities. Pathetic that people can't see how they're being manipulated.
Boris gives far more concern for the views of the average man on the street than the average Islington diehard Remainer
Give over. Plenty of "men in the street" are Remainers. Some of them even live in Islington. Johnson doesn't give a monkeys about ordinary people, he just wants to have a whiff of power and a regular supply of iffy shags.
Sturgeon presented best, though wasn't tackled as much as the others.
Corbyn was clear, made the right points, and answered (most of) the actual questions, far better than the bumbling, fact-less and inarticulate Johnson, the only one who couldn't even remember each question when a series was put.
The presenter pulled up Johnson and Corbyn well, though when it got to Johnson the audience didn't *seem* to get as many follow-ons/come-backs as with the others.
Even Swinson was better, though she was either attacked more, or perhaps dealt worse with it (by actually being more responsive).
Yet again Johnson relies on his bumbling 'charisma' to push on. I regret that many watching may go for the personality before the (lack of) policy.
Corbyn seems to take days or weeks to take positions on issues that are obviously going to come up and need clarifying. Issues he could deal with immediately, but instead he seems to let them fester (out of stubbornness) until they become sores; by which time it is too little too late.
Sturgeon is a decent politician, at a time when there is lots of dross. She also has the advantage of not being exposed weekly in the way leaders of Tories / Labour where every decisions, every utterance, etc is picked up and splashed across the media.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I think Corbyn getting his turn in number ten has a sort of symmetry to it the way brexit has been going.
Out it would then go.
At least 2017 warned me so I’ve done something about it 😁
One thing I would warn you though, when the reds took control of Russia in 1920s there was money to be made from the change. When people start pouring money in, heating things up, the initial impacts won’t be Venezuela today, the bankruptcy and burying valuables in bottom of the garden in Bolton comes later. Remember when brown tried to prevent recession by throwing money at it there was bargains for shoppers? Make the most of the easy money and giveaways and keep an eye out for ugly downturn. If they are slung out after 4 years it might not even be that bad overall. Mind you, what I say may be true, but it’s not the message Cummings wants out there
Listen if Jezza wants to seriously implement his bat shit crazed policies, exchange controls are on the cards, not that that’ll appear in the manifesto. I remember the 50 quid limit in the 70’s. It was fuck all even then.
I will take no chances.
How would exchange controls even operate in the more electronically linked world of 2019?
Ask the Greeks. They had capital controls from 2015 until this year.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I think Corbyn getting his turn in number ten has a sort of symmetry to it the way brexit has been going.
Out it would then go.
At least 2017 warned me so I’ve done something about it 😁
One thing I would warn you though, when the reds took control of Russia in 1920s there was money to be made from the change. When people start pouring money in, heating things up, the initial impacts won’t be Venezuela today, the bankruptcy and burying valuables in bottom of the garden in Bolton comes later. Remember when brown tried to prevent recession by throwing money at it there was bargains for shoppers? Make the most of the easy money and giveaways and keep an eye out for ugly downturn. If they are slung out after 4 years it might not even be that bad overall. Mind you, what I say may be true, but it’s not the message Cummings wants out there
Listen if Jezza wants to seriously implement his bat shit crazed policies, exchange controls are on the cards, not that that’ll appear in the manifesto. I remember the 50 quid limit in the 70’s. It was fuck all even then.
I will take no chances.
How would exchange controls even operate in the more electronically linked world of 2019?
Fair point, but I have no intention of having to find out,
One lesson from tonight is that a six week campaign shows that simple soundbites aren't everything. Swinson's revoke hasn't stood the test of time. Boris Johnson's Get Brexit Done sounds demented. Three more weeks and we'll all be pulling our hair out. Labour who were derided for having a more nuanced stance has turned out to be the only one with legs. Maybe the electorate aren't simpletons?
If anyone else, for example Corbyn or Farage, had said 'tank top bum boys' 'watermelon smiles' 'letterboxes' and 'picanninies' they would be on the racks. Johnson couldn't even bring himself to say he could understand how people could find it offensive.
What did I say about the Lib Dem revoke policy when they announced it....
All they had to do is say I think we should have a referendum on the deal, put out some sensible middle of the road orange book type policies and hoover up all those middle class liberal type votes.
It's not just the actual policy, it's her triumphal 'on day one we will revoke' stuff. Like, 17.4 million can feck off on day one of my overlordship
What did I say about the Lib Dem revoke policy when they announced it....
All they had to do is say I think we should have a referendum on the deal, put out some sensible middle of the road orange book type policies and hoover up all those middle class liberal type votes.
They could never have implemented leaving had Leave won again. Their policy would have been a farce like the Greens' - hold EUref 2 but if it's Leave, don't implement it. In that much, at least the Lib Dem policy is crudely honest.
The polls should narrow this coming Saturday evening, however the key question is will they widen again after the Tory manifesto is released on Sunday?
We just have to wait.
After the Labour manifesto it may seem an open goal for Tories to shoot into. I would urge caution. Tax cuts funded by more borrowing and big investment in state services funded by Brexit dividend is likely to be savaged by IFS and fair minded fact checks. Lets be honest, tax cuts funded by borrowing and give aways based on imaginary Brexit dividend wouldn’t even pass the Conservative parties own fact checkers handful of years ago, would it? So what it would mean, the ball towards the open goal is missed, out come the “£350M a week for Tory Tax cuts, vote brexit*” banners, and the breakthrough the Tories need in seats they didn’t take last time will be gone.
If anyone else, for example Corbyn or Farage, had said 'tank top bum boys' 'watermelon smiles' 'letterboxes' and 'picanninies' they would be on the racks. Johnson couldn't even bring himself to say he could understand how people could find it offensive.
At least he's honest. He isn't sorry, he doesn't care, and as we have learned here it goes down well with loveable flat capped racists anyway.
If anyone else, for example Corbyn or Farage, had said 'tank top bum boys' 'watermelon smiles' 'letterboxes' and 'picanninies' they would be on the racks. Johnson couldn't even bring himself to say he could understand how people could find it offensive.
At least he's honest. He isn't sorry, he doesn't care, and as we have learned here it goes down well with loveable flat capped racists anyway.
That's a bit rich when Labour voters are prepared to sell out the victims of antisemitism for a bit of free broadband...
One lesson from tonight is that a six week campaign shows that simple soundbites aren't everything. Swinson's revoke hasn't stood the test of time. Boris Johnson's Get Brexit Done sounds demented. Three more weeks and we'll all be pulling our hair out. Labour who were derided for having a more nuanced stance has turned out to be the only one with legs. Maybe the electorate aren't simpletons?
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I think Corbyn getting his turn in number ten has a sort of symmetry to it the way brexit has been going.
Out it would then go.
At least 2017 warned me so I’ve done something about it 😁
One thing I would warn you though, when the reds took control of Russia in 1920s there was money to be made from the change. When people start pouring money in, heating things up, the initial impacts won’t be Venezuela today, the bankruptcy and burying valuables in bottom of the garden in Bolton comes later. Remember when brown tried to prevent recession by throwing money at it there was bargains for shoppers? Make the most of the easy money and giveaways and keep an eye out for ugly downturn. If they are slung out after 4 years it might not even be that bad overall. Mind you, what I say may be true, but it’s not the message Cummings wants out there
Listen if Jezza wants to seriously implement his bat shit crazed policies, exchange controls are on the cards, not that that’ll appear in the manifesto. I remember the 50 quid limit in the 70’s. It was fuck all even then.
I will take no chances.
How would exchange controls even operate in the more electronically linked world of 2019?
Even easier. Who is going to want to give a Brit much value for their electronic pounds when the underlying banks are under orders not to transfer any real asset to support it.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the woke millenial outrage over what he has written the swing votes this time are the northern and Midlands working classes who, for example, might attend bawdy comedy nights in working men's clubs and dont give a shit about how hurty some words were. Straight talking spade is a spade get Brexit done voters Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
So you think he has the misogynist and racist vote sewed up? I think so too.
It's that sort of offhand, sneering dismissal of the working class vote that will make the utter trashing of labour and the idiot Swinsonites an utter joy
It is you that stereotyped the working class as throwback to the Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club, not me.
Ok, Ken Burns country documentary on now, au revoir.
Sensible.
I’m reading a history of the Korean War as light relief from politics. Which has thrown up a memorably bad acronym; UNTCOK ... the UN temporary commission on Korea.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I think Corbyn getting his turn in number ten has a sort of symmetry to it the way brexit has been going.
Out it would then go.
At least 2017 warned me so I’ve done something about it 😁
slung out after 4 years it might not even be that bad overall. Mind you, what I say may be true, but it’s not the message Cummings wants out there
Listen if Jezza wants to seriously implement his bat shit crazed policies, exchange controls are on the cards, not that that’ll appear in the manifesto. I remember the 50 quid limit in the 70’s. It was fuck all even then.
I will take no chances.
How would exchange controls even operate in the more electronically linked world of 2019?
Fair point, but I have no intention of having to find out,
This is how Wikipedia describes what happened in 2015:
As a result, the Greek government was forced to immediately close Greek banks for almost 20 days and to implement controls on bank transfers from Greek banks to foreign banks, and limits on cash withdrawals (only €60 per day permitted), to avoid an uncontrolled bank run and a complete collapse of the Greek banking system. The capital controls were gradually minimized until their complete removal on the 1st of September 2019.
If it happened there would not be a lot of warning.
If anyone else, for example Corbyn or Farage, had said 'tank top bum boys' 'watermelon smiles' 'letterboxes' and 'picanninies' they would be on the racks. Johnson couldn't even bring himself to say he could understand how people could find it offensive.
At least he's honest. He isn't sorry, he doesn't care, and as we have learned here it goes down well with loveable flat capped racists anyway.
That's a bit rich when Labour voters are prepared to sell out the victims of antisemitism for a bit of free broadband...
BTW, who thought putting the event on on a Friday evening was a good idea. Most people have far better things plans for such an evening than watching a load of politicians bullshit for 2hrs.
If anyone else, for example Corbyn or Farage, had said 'tank top bum boys' 'watermelon smiles' 'letterboxes' and 'picanninies' they would be on the racks. Johnson couldn't even bring himself to say he could understand how people could find it offensive.
At least he's honest. He isn't sorry, he doesn't care, and as we have learned here it goes down well with loveable flat capped racists anyway.
That's it, everyone that doesn't worship at the altar of progressive bollocks is a flat cap racist. And theres the sneering superiority of the 'progressives' and why theyll never understand, get, or appeal to normal human beings
The audiences are always awful these days. (You can tell I'm not seeking votes from anyone).
I thought the 10 o'clock news overdid the "they're all awful" stuff, almost as though they wanted to encourage disillusionment. Both Johnson and Corbyn had some sympathetic questions which were airbrushed out - both of them have a decent number of real support, so why in fairness not interview some of them too?
One lesson from tonight is that a six week campaign shows that simple soundbites aren't everything. Swinson's revoke hasn't stood the test of time. Boris Johnson's Get Brexit Done sounds demented. Three more weeks and we'll all be pulling our hair out. Labour who were derided for having a more nuanced stance has turned out to be the only one with legs. Maybe the electorate aren't simpletons?
"Get Brexit Done" risks being the 2019 version of "Strong and Stable Government".
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I think Corbyn getting his turn in number ten has a sort of symmetry to it the way brexit has been going.
Out it would then go.
At least 2017 warned me so I’ve done something about it 😁
One thing I would warn you though, when the reds took control of Russia in 1920s there was money to be made from the change. When people start pouring money in, heating things up, the initial impacts won’t be Venezuela today, the bankruptcy and burying valuables in bottom of the garden in Bolton comes later. Remember when brown tried to prevent recession by throwing money at it there was bargains for shoppers? Make the most of the easy money and giveaways and keep an eye out for ugly downturn. If they are slung out after 4 years it might not even be that bad overall. Mind you, what I say may be true, but it’s not the message Cummings wants out there
Listen if Jezza wants to seriously implement his bat shit crazed policies, exchange controls are on the cards, not that that’ll appear in the manifesto. I remember the 50 quid limit in the 70’s. It was fuck all even then.
I will take no chances.
How would exchange controls even operate in the more electronically linked world of 2019?
Fair point, but I have no intention of having to find out,
Sounds like you have a severe dose of survivalism...
Comments
In which case, why should veracity be any sort of criterion for determining which one they least despise?
It's a view.
Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
Shows how unconcerned they are about competence.
I actually think she is a decent person but is unlikely to revive the lib dems
Getting a bit complacent?
He reasonably feels that will be the most unifying approach.
The Tory approach will take MUCH longer - the withdrawal agreement is only the start, we haven't started down the thorny road of trade deals whilst keeping the ERG on side.
Even in 1987 and 1992 the general consensus was that Labour "won" the campaign even if they lost the election...
Boris is campaigning across the country and the Tory social media operation is also far better than 2017
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
Based on Spreadex's mid-spread for the Tories of 342 seats, they are anticipating an overall majority for the Blue Team of 34 seats.
No it’s not the shagging.
It’s the bus.
At least 2017 warned me so I’ve done something about it 😁
Is she trying to do Tony Blair style "pretty straight sorta girl standing alongside" thing?
"I geddit. We got stuff wrong. And we in the future, going forward, are determined we're gonna get it right".
Try reading it in an estuary accent.
They said that the conservatives were very pleased as they feel they can gain votes on Corbyn's fence sitting
A referendum with a real outcome is necessary (rather than a lie telling people there'd be an easy deal, loads of money, and single market as people were falsely told). The Tory government had more than 3 years, and got a deal and expected parliament to agree it in 3 days or crash out.
If you're inferring Corbyn also has his own and political reasoning, then I concede that bit. But regardless, the Lab/Green/SNP/PC/SF/ALL/SDLP position (and to an extent the LD position) is a far far better position than the Tories, far better for the economy and far better for Northern Ireland and far better for avoiding a worse decline into ongoing 'dithering' about Brexit and economic harm - the Tories plan would mean years of wrangling. We have no clue what actual long-term plan they have - only the withdrawal agreement which is just the start.
Every bump in the road, every hiccup, every setback will be owned by him and his party. It will be brutal.
Though from the canvassing I have had the only Tories defecting have been to the LDs, I have yet to find one moving to Corbyn Labour, on the whole Leavers are behind IDS though especially now the Brexit Party are not standing Momentum are pushing it hard
I will take no chances.
We just have to wait.
I have just come back from dinner with a former big Corbyn fan / Team Red all their life / Remainer. They are of course still going to vote Labour, but now have little to say about Jezza and Brexit, the response was I'm sick of it, just get it done now. When I said, what about Labour's re-re-renegotiation followed by a 2nd referendum...lets just say the response was unpublishable.
If you think we should Leave then say why and what benefits we'll get from Leaving, not stay neutral.
What benefits will we get from Corbyn's Leave but remain in single market, remain in customs union and keep free movement deal?
All they had to do is say I think we should have a referendum on the deal, put out some sensible middle of the road orange book type policies and hoover up all those middle class liberal type votes.
So yes, there are plenty of voters who believe both men are unfit for high office. But almost all of those voters think one of them is vastly more unfit than the other, and will therefore back whichever man they merely distrust in order to attempt to thwart the one of which they are terrified.
Corbyn was clear, made the right points, and answered (most of) the actual questions, far better than the bumbling, fact-less and inarticulate Johnson, the only one who couldn't even remember each question when a series was put.
The presenter pulled up Johnson and Corbyn well, though when it got to Johnson the audience didn't *seem* to get as many follow-ons/come-backs as with the others.
Even Swinson was better, though she was either attacked more, or perhaps dealt worse with it (by actually being more responsive).
Yet again Johnson relies on his bumbling 'charisma' to push on. I regret that many watching may go for the personality before the (lack of) policy.
Corbyn seems to take days or weeks to take positions on issues that are obviously going to come up and need clarifying. Issues he could deal with immediately, but instead he seems to let them fester (out of stubbornness) until they become sores; by which time it is too little too late.
Just think about it for a minute. Corbyn as PM will never be able to implement anything more more left-wing than the kind of social democracy seen on and off acros much of western Europe since the war. He will be moderated by rebel soft-left Labour MPs, not to mention his almost certain need to bring along coalition partners.
A Corbyn-led government may not be what you'd choose life will go on, unchanged for many, a bit better for some, a bit worse for others.
Johnson couldn't even bring himself to say he could understand how people could find it offensive.
*yes, the irony of such a banner is it is a lie.
Con maj 1.55
NOM 3.1
A poignant plight for a Nat. To be so skilled in the tongue of your colonial English conquerors.
I'll have some of what he's drinking. 🍷
On taxing average earners it has stayed the same
I’m reading a history of the Korean War as light relief from politics.
Which has thrown up a memorably bad acronym; UNTCOK ... the UN temporary commission on Korea.
As a result, the Greek government was forced to immediately close Greek banks for almost 20 days and to implement controls on bank transfers from Greek banks to foreign banks, and limits on cash withdrawals (only €60 per day permitted), to avoid an uncontrolled bank run and a complete collapse of the Greek banking system. The capital controls were gradually minimized until their complete removal on the 1st of September 2019.
If it happened there would not be a lot of warning.
https://news.sky.com/video/dominic-raab-attacks-andy-mcdonald-over-antisemitism-in-the-labour-party-11867643
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivalism