If anyone else, for example Corbyn or Farage, had said 'tank top bum boys' 'watermelon smiles' 'letterboxes' and 'picanninies' they would be on the racks. Johnson couldn't even bring himself to say he could understand how people could find it offensive.
At least he's honest. He isn't sorry, he doesn't care, and as we have learned here it goes down well with loveable flat capped racists anyway.
That's a bit rich when Labour voters are prepared to sell out the victims of antisemitism for a bit of free broadband...
The time of tonight's debate was odd. How many of the potential audience would have headed for a pint after a week at work? How many were bathing their kids, reading stories when it went out?
Plenty of tweets and headlines tonight on Corbyn's neutrality on a Brexit referendum.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I think Corbyn getting his turn in number ten has a sort of symmetry to it the way brexit has been going.
Out it would then go.
At least 2017 warned me so I’ve done something about it 😁
One thing I would warn you though, when the reds took control of Russia in 1920s there was money to be made from the change. When people start pouring money in, heating things up, the initial impacts won’t be Venezuela today, the bankruptcy and burying valuables in bottom of the garden in Bolton comes later. Remember when brown tried to prevent recession by throwing money at it there was bargains for shoppers? Make the most of the easy money and giveaways and keep an eye out for ugly downturn. If they are slung out after 4 years it might not even be that bad overall. Mind you, what I say may be true, but it’s not the message Cummings wants out there
Listen if Jezza wants to seriously implement his bat shit crazed policies, exchange controls are on the cards, not that that’ll appear in the manifesto. I remember the 50 quid limit in the 70’s. It was fuck all even then.
I will take no chances.
How would exchange controls even operate in the more electronically linked world of 2019?
Even easier. Who is going to want to give a Brit much value for their electronic pounds when the underlying banks are under orders not to transfer any real asset to support it.
The audiences are always awful these days. (You can tell I'm not seeking votes from anyone).
I thought the 10 o'clock news overdid the "they're all awful" stuff, almost as though they wanted to encourage disillusionment. Both Johnson and Corbyn had some sympathetic questions which were airbrushed out - both of them have a decent number of real support, so why in fairness not interview some of them too?
Johnson did not have a single sympathetic 'question'.
Betfair doesn't seem to have moved at all by that. Another bore-draw, basically … sums up this election, it's pretty dull really.
Fortunately, the Americans aren't proving so boring. Bloomberg has bought $30million of ads starting next week - the advantage of actually being a billionaire, unlike Trump. Have to wonder how far it'll get him though.
Blatent dead cat attempt from McDonald to avoid talking about institutional anti-semitism by kicking up dust on the other side to make it look like a draw. Raab spotted that the camera had come back and got out of there pdq.
How would exchange controls even operate in the more electronically linked world of 2019?
Fair point, but I have no intention of having to find out,
This is how Wikipedia describes what happened in 2015:
As a result, the Greek government was forced to immediately close Greek banks for almost 20 days and to implement controls on bank transfers from Greek banks to foreign banks, and limits on cash withdrawals (only €60 per day permitted), to avoid an uncontrolled bank run and a complete collapse of the Greek banking system. The capital controls were gradually minimized until their complete removal on the 1st of September 2019.
If it happened there would not be a lot of warning.
Bit hard to immediately close the banks when there's no government. If come 9am on 13/12/19 it looks like Corbyn is going to be able to enter Downing Street the run on the banks will start before Corbyn can see the Queen.
With overnight and overseas trading it probably won't even take until 9am. Would make the changes on the night of the EU Referendum be a drop in the ocean.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I am not a fan of Corbyn but I really, genuinely, find it totally incomprehensible that seemingly rational people treat the prospect of him becoming PM in such 'end of days' ways.
Just think about it for a minute. Corbyn as PM will never be able to implement anything more more left-wing than the kind of social democracy seen on and off acros much of western Europe since the war. He will be moderated by rebel soft-left Labour MPs, not to mention his almost certain need to bring along coalition partners.
A Corbyn-led government may not be what you'd choose life will go on, unchanged for many, a bit better for some, a bit worse for others.
Ok. But I’m not prepared to take the risk.
I’m lucky enough ( through taxed work I might add!) to be pretty liquid right now. I’m not going to dick about relying on the goodwill of people I consider totally out to screw people like me.
The money will put out of the country. End of. It’s my air raid shelter from the loons.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
I don’t mind my leaders getting pissed now and again and falling over, or having an active sex life, or generally being human with flaws. It’s better than some monk like fanatical loon.
But beyond that the question is for all their faults: is this person on my side? I might disagree with their way of going about being on my side and disagree about loads of stuff but I won’t lie awake at night worrying. Blair, even hopeless Brown, were in that group. So is Hillary Benn et al, so in fairness is Jo Swinson with whom I agree about just about nothing, but, Corbyn, et al? Christ I hope they are removed from our public life forthwith never to be seen again. Now.
Yes, very true. I feel that Corbyn and Co actively hate me, as a successful higher earner. They don’t just want to tax me more, like most Labour leaders, they want me to suffer just because, and ultimately they want me out of the country simply because I have made money so I must be evil. And if that impoverishes the nation then fuck it. The nation deserves to suffer anyway, because Britain is awful and racist.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the woke millenial outrage over what he has written the swing votes this time are the northern and Midlands working classes who, for example, might attend bawdy comedy nights in working men's clubs and dont give a shit about how hurty some words were. Straight talking spade is a spade get Brexit done voters Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
So you think he has the misogynist and racist vote sewed up? I think so too.
It's that sort of offhand, sneering dismissal of the working class vote that will make the utter trashing of labour and the idiot Swinsonites an utter joy
It is you that stereotyped the working class as throwback to the Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club, not me.
I gave an example of what background some might have and what beliefs some might hold. I did not in any way stereotype and used language to ensure it wasn't a stereotype or insinuation that one fits all. So, bite me, offhand sneerer
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson.
I think Corbyn getting his turn in number ten has a sort of symmetry to it the way brexit has been going.
Out it would then go.
At least 2017 warned me so I’ve done something about it 😁
One thing I would warn you though, when the reds took control of Russia in 1920s there was money to be made from the change. When people start pouring money in, heating things up, the initial impacts won’t be Venezuela today, the bankruptcy and burying valuables in bottom of the garden in Bolton comes later. Remember when brown tried to prevent recession by throwing money at it there was bargains for shoppers? Make the most of the easy money and giveaways and keep an eye out for ugly downturn. If they are slung out after 4 years it might not even be that bad overall. Mind you, what I say may be true, but it’s not the message Cummings wants out there
Listen if Jezza wants to seriously implement his bat shit crazed policies, exchange controls are on the cards, not that that’ll appear in the manifesto. I remember the 50 quid limit in the 70’s. It was fuck all even then.
I will take no chances.
How would exchange controls even operate in the more electronically linked world of 2019?
Even easier. Who is going to want to give a Brit much value for their electronic pounds when the underlying banks are under orders not to transfer any real asset to support it.
Nah you are all missing the point, the point being the point when it goes tits up. If either main party got a working majority that is not the moment it goes tits up, most likely several years later and money to be had in the meantime. If in early hours of Friday 13th it looks like Parliament will be well hung, UK PLC will be worth about two or three nectar points by dawn.
Boris's inability to answer the questions or stay on topic may have had something to do with that. Are the Tories seriously claiming Fiona Bruce has an anti-Tory bias?
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the woke millenial outrage over what he has written the swing votes this time are the northern and Midlands working classes who, for example, might attend bawdy comedy nights in working men's clubs and dont give a shit about how hurty some words were. Straight talking spade is a spade get Brexit done voters Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
So you think he has the misogynist and racist vote sewed up? I think so too.
My goodness.
All of the racist and misogynist votes?
If even Corbyn is voting for Johnson, then it’s well and truly over for Labour.
If anyone else, for example Corbyn or Farage, had said 'tank top bum boys' 'watermelon smiles' 'letterboxes' and 'picanninies' they would be on the racks. Johnson couldn't even bring himself to say he could understand how people could find it offensive.
At least he's honest. He isn't sorry, he doesn't care, and as we have learned here it goes down well with loveable flat capped racists anyway.
Johnny Speight said that he created Alf Garnet as a ghastly racist and despaired when he realized how many people identified with him
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
I don’t mind my leaders getting pissed now and again and falling over, or having an active sex life, or generally being human with flaws. It’s better than some monk like fanatical loon.
But beyond that the question is for all their faults: is this person on my side? I might disagree with their way of going about being on my side and disagree about loads of stuff but I won’t lie awake at night worrying. Blair, even hopeless Brown, were in that group. So is Hillary Benn et al, so in fairness is Jo Swinson with whom I agree about just about nothing, but, Corbyn, et al? Christ I hope they are removed from our public life forthwith never to be seen again. Now.
Yes, very true. I feel that Corbyn and Co actively hate me, as a successful higher earner. They don’t just want to tax me more, like most Labour leaders, they want me to suffer just because, and ultimately they want me out of the country simply because I have made money so I must be evil. And if that impoverishes the nation then fuck it. The nation deserves to suffer anyway, because Britain is awful and racist.
Did you get your hands on any iced buns at the pole?
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
I don’t mind my leaders getting pissed now and again and falling over, or having an active sex life, or generally being human with flaws. It’s better than some monk like fanatical loon.
But beyond that the question is for all their faults: is this person on my side? I might disagree with their way of going about being on my side and disagree about loads of stuff but I won’t lie awake at night worrying. Blair, even hopeless Brown, were in that group. So is Hillary Benn et al, so in fairness is Jo Swinson with whom I agree about just about nothing, but, Corbyn, et al? Christ I hope they are removed from our public life forthwith never to be seen again. Now.
Yes, very true. I feel that Corbyn and Co actively hate me, as a successful higher earner. They don’t just want to tax me more, like most Labour leaders, they want me to suffer just because, and ultimately they want me out of the country simply because I have made money so I must be evil. And if that impoverishes the nation then fuck it. The nation deserves to suffer anyway, because Britain is awful and racist.
In every single performance he gives, you can see that rather than the Labour stereotype of compassion, Corbyn's politics is fueled by anger and bitterness.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I am not a fan of Corbyn but I really, genuinely, find it totally incomprehensible that seemingly rational people treat the prospect of him becoming PM in such 'end of days' ways.
Just think about it for a minute. Corbyn as PM will never be able to implement anything more more left-wing than the kind of social democracy seen on and off acros much of western Europe since the war. He will be moderated by rebel soft-left Labour MPs, not to mention his almost certain need to bring along coalition partners.
A Corbyn-led government may not be what you'd choose life will go on, unchanged for many, a bit better for some, a bit worse for others.
Ok. But I’m not prepared to take the risk.
I’m lucky enough ( through taxed work I might add!) to be pretty liquid right now. I’m not going to dick about relying on the goodwill of people I consider totally out to screw people like me.
The money will put out of the country. End of. It’s my air raid shelter from the loons.
Where are you putting your money? Somewhere unaffected by climate change hopefully?
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson.
I think Corbyn getting his turn in number ten has a sort of symmetry to it the way brexit has been going.
Out it would then go.
At least 2017 warned me so I’ve done something about it 😁
One thing I would warn you though, when the reds took control of Russia in 1920s there was money to be made from the change. When people start pouring money in, heating things up, the initial impacts won’t be Venezuela today, the bankruptcy and burying valuables in bottom of the garden in Bolton comes later. Remember when brown tried to prevent recession by throwing money at it there was bargains for shoppers? Make the most of the easy money and giveaways and keep an eye out for ugly downturn. If they are slung out after 4 years it might not even be that bad overall. Mind you, what I say may be true, but it’s not the message Cummings wants out there
Listen if Jezza wants to seriously implement his bat shit crazed policies, exchange controls are on the cards, not that that’ll appear in the manifesto. I remember the 50 quid limit in the 70’s. It was fuck all even then.
I will take no chances.
How would exchange controls even operate in the more electronically linked world of 2019?
Even easier. Who is going to want to give a Brit much value for their electronic pounds when the underlying banks are under orders not to transfer any real asset to support it.
Nah you are all missing the point, the point being the point when it goes tits up. If either main party got a working majority that is not the moment it goes tits up, most likely several years later and money to be had in the meantime. If in early hours of Friday 13th it looks like Parliament will be well hung, UK PLC will be worth about two or three nectar points by dawn.
Utter nonsense. The 2010 and 2017 GEs both resulted in hung-parliaments and Britain's value didn't go down the pan as a result.
One lesson from tonight is that a six week campaign shows that simple soundbites aren't everything. Swinson's revoke hasn't stood the test of time. Boris Johnson's Get Brexit Done sounds demented. Three more weeks and we'll all be pulling our hair out. Labour who were derided for having a more nuanced stance has turned out to be the only one with legs. Maybe the electorate aren't simpletons?
"Get Brexit Done" risks being the 2019 version of "Strong and Stable Government".
Johnson came very close to saying strong and stable at one point, you almost saw him jolt as Cummings pressed a button back in the bunker.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
I don’t mind my leaders getting pissed now and again and falling over, or having an active sex life, or generally being human with flaws. It’s better than some monk like fanatical loon.
But beyond that the question is for all their faults: is this person on my side? I might disagree with their way of going about being on my side and disagree about loads of stuff but I won’t lie awake at night worrying. Blair, even hopeless Brown, were in that group. So is Hillary Benn et al, so in fairness is Jo Swinson with whom I agree about just about nothing, but, Corbyn, et al? Christ I hope they are removed from our public life forthwith never to be seen again. Now.
Yes, very true. I feel that Corbyn and Co actively hate me, as a successful higher earner. They don’t just want to tax me more, like most Labour leaders, they want me to suffer just because, and ultimately they want me out of the country simply because I have made money so I must be evil. And if that impoverishes the nation then fuck it. The nation deserves to suffer anyway, because Britain is awful and racist.
It isn't just high earners that they hate. It's business. It's America. It's the West. Frankly I suspect that deep down they hate this country as it is, and want to utterly change it forever.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I am not a fan of Corbyn but I really, genuinely, find it totally incomprehensible that seemingly rational people treat the prospect of him becoming PM in such 'end of days' ways.
Just think about it for a minute. Corbyn as PM will never be able to implement anything more more left-wing than the kind of social democracy seen on and off acros much of western Europe since the war. He will be moderated by rebel soft-left Labour MPs, not to mention his almost certain need to bring along coalition partners.
A Corbyn-led government may not be what you'd choose life will go on, unchanged for many, a bit better for some, a bit worse for others.
People said EXACTLY this about Hitler. Not vaguely similar, EXACTLY.
Corbyn might be just a mild anti Semite and a genial old commie, of limited brain. But he is surrounded by very smart and deeply sinister people who would LOVE to dissolve Britain in the economic super-acid of Chavezism. The threat is very real, and very present. The UK has not been in such danger, since world war 2.
If anyone else, for example Corbyn or Farage, had said 'tank top bum boys' 'watermelon smiles' 'letterboxes' and 'picanninies' they would be on the racks. Johnson couldn't even bring himself to say he could understand how people could find it offensive.
At least he's honest. He isn't sorry, he doesn't care, and as we have learned here it goes down well with loveable flat capped racists anyway.
That's it, everyone that doesn't worship at the altar of progressive bollocks is a flat cap racist. And theres the sneering superiority of the 'progressives' and why theyll never understand, get, or appeal to normal human beings
You are the one who was trading in absurd stereotypes, I was sneering at you not "normal human beings." If you think it's "progressive bollocks" to believe that it's wrong to use language that gets women punched in the street then great. I grew up in the North of England and Scotland, went to a comprehensive, consider myself a "normal human being". I just hate racists. Sorry if that upsets you.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the woke millenial outrage over what he has written the swing votes this time are the northern and Midlands working classes who, for example, might attend bawdy comedy nights in working men's clubs and dont give a shit about how hurty some words were. Straight talking spade is a spade get Brexit done voters Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
I wouldn't give a shit what he'd written if it hadn't led directly to women getting attacked in the street. Joe average will get a rude awakening a few years into this government of Etonians who - guess what - really don't care about Joe average. I am getting so tired of this culture war nonsense, it's just like Trump, appealing to uneducated white men by thinly coded attacks on women and minorities. Pathetic that people can't see how they're being manipulated.
However the truly pathetic thing is the 3 and a half years of politicians and the Lawyer Boy and Gina Millers of this world doing everything they can to overturn the referendum. The Boris govt will deliver it and if, after that, they abandon the voters that put them there theyll get booted in 2024.
If the leavers had a plan for delivering Brexit in a way that didn't fuck the economy it would have happened by now. The plan is now to fuck the economy in the first year of a five year term and spend the next four years hoping things improve. The economy is already in trouble, the flash PMI surveys for November were dire.
I missed that earlier today. They look pretty grim.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I am not a fan of Corbyn but I really, genuinely, find it totally incomprehensible that seemingly rational people treat the prospect of him becoming PM in such 'end of days' ways.
Just think about it for a minute. Corbyn as PM will never be able to implement anything more more left-wing than the kind of social democracy seen on and off acros much of western Europe since the war. He will be moderated by rebel soft-left Labour MPs, not to mention his almost certain need to bring along coalition partners.
A Corbyn-led government may not be what you'd choose life will go on, unchanged for many, a bit better for some, a bit worse for others.
People said EXACTLY this about Hitler. Not vaguely similar, EXACTLY.
Corbyn might be just a mild anti Semite and a genial old commie, of limited brain. But he is surrounded by very smart and deeply sinister people who would LOVE to dissolve Britain in the economic super-acid of Chavezism. The threat is very real, and very present. The UK has not been in such danger, since world war 2.
I think the most depressing aspect of that is how both are just repeating internet talking points at each other, like they are us but getting tens of thousands of pounds to do it. Yes they do other stuff too, but it'd be nice to believe our leaders have a little more substance than internet commentators, given the insights afforded to their positions.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the woke millenial outrage over what he has written the swing votes this time are the northern and Midlands working classes who, for example, might attend bawdy comedy nights in working men's clubs and dont give a shit about how hurty some words were. Straight talking spade is a spade get Brexit done voters Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
I wouldn't give a shit what he'd written if it hadn't led directly to women getting attacked in the street. Joe average will get a rude awakening a few years into this government of Etonians who - guess what - really don't care about Joe average. I am getting so tired of this culture war nonsense, it's just like Trump, appealing to uneducated white men by thinly coded attacks on women and minorities. Pathetic that people can't see how they're being manipulated.
However the truly pathetic thing is the 3 and a half years of politicians and the Lawyer Boy and Gina Millers of this world doing everything they can to overturn the referendum. The Boris govt will deliver it and if, after that, they abandon the voters that put them there theyll get booted in 2024.
If the leavers had a plan for delivering Brexit in a way that didn't fuck the economy it would have happened by now. The plan is now to fuck the economy in the first year of a five year term and spend the next four years hoping things improve. The economy is already in trouble, the flash PMI surveys for November were dire.
I missed that earlier today. They look pretty grim.
Except that the decline clearly begins in 2014, not with the Brexit vote. The whole world is headed for recession, not just us. If anything, it’s overdue.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson.
I think Corbyn getting his turn in number ten has a sort of symmetry to it the way brexit has been going.
Out it would then go.
At least 2017 warned me so I’ve done something about it 😁
One thing I would warn you though, when the reds took control of Russia in 1920s there was money to be made from the change. When people start pouring money in, heating things up, the initial impacts won’t be Venezuela today, the bankruptcy and burying valuables in bottom of the garden in Bolton comes later. Remember when brown tried to prevent recession by throwing money at it there was bargains for shoppers? Make the most of the easy money and giveaways and keep an eye out for ugly downturn. If they are slung out after 4 years it might not even be that bad overall. Mind you, what I say may be true, but it’s not the message Cummings wants out there
I remember the 50 quid limit in the 70’s. It was fuck all even then.
I will take no chances.
How would exchange controls even operate in the more electronically linked world of 2019?
Even easier. Who is going to want to give a Brit much value for their electronic pounds when the underlying banks are under orders not to transfer any real asset to support it.
Nah you are all missing the point, the point being the point when it goes tits up. If either main party got a working majority that is not the moment it goes tits up, most likely several years later and money to be had in the meantime. If in early hours of Friday 13th it looks like Parliament will be well hung, UK PLC will be worth about two or three nectar points by dawn.
Utter nonsense. The 2010 and 2017 GEs both resulted in hung-parliaments and Britain's value didn't go down the pan as a result.
It will this time. We are locked in brexit Groundhog Day. A well hung Parliament is exactly what the markets will most fear.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
I don’t mind my leaders getting pissed now and again and falling over, or having an active sex life, or generally being human with flaws. It’s better than some monk like fanatical loon.
But beyond that the question is for all their faults: is this person on my side? I might disagree with their way of going about being on my side and disagree about loads of stuff but I won’t lie awake at night worrying. Blair, even hopeless Brown, were in that group. So is Hillary Benn et al, so in fairness is Jo Swinson with whom I agree about just about nothing, but, Corbyn, et al? Christ I hope they are removed from our public life forthwith never to be seen again. Now.
Yes, very true. I feel that Corbyn and Co actively hate me, as a successful higher earner. They don’t just want to tax me more, like most Labour leaders, they want me to suffer just because, and ultimately they want me out of the country simply because I have made money so I must be evil. And if that impoverishes the nation then fuck it. The nation deserves to suffer anyway, because Britain is awful and racist.
Except that the decline clearly begins in 2014, not with the Brexit vote. The whole world is headed for recession, not just us. If anything, it’s overdue.
I saw an interesting video the other day about how dangerous the negative interest rates the EU are going with. Basically it only kinda of sorta works, and only if the US doesn't follow suit.
If anyone else, for example Corbyn or Farage, had said 'tank top bum boys' 'watermelon smiles' 'letterboxes' and 'picanninies' they would be on the racks. Johnson couldn't even bring himself to say he could understand how people could find it offensive.
At least he's honest. He isn't sorry, he doesn't care, and as we have learned here it goes down well with loveable flat capped racists anyway.
That's it, everyone that doesn't worship at the altar of progressive bollocks is a flat cap racist. And theres the sneering superiority of the 'progressives' and why theyll never understand, get, or appeal to normal human beings
You are the one who was trading in absurd stereotypes, I was sneering at you not "normal human beings." If you think it's "progressive bollocks" to believe that it's wrong to use language that gets women punched in the street then great. I grew up in the North of England and Scotland, went to a comprehensive, consider myself a "normal human being". I just hate racists. Sorry if that upsets you.
Bullshit. No one with such a claimed hatred would be a facilitator of Corbyn's anti-semitic clan.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
I don’t mind my leaders getting pissed now and again and falling over, or having an active sex life, or generally being human with flaws. It’s better than some monk like fanatical loon.
But beyond that the question is for all their faults: is this person on my side? I might disagree with their way of going about being on my side and disagree about loads of stuff but I won’t lie awake at night worrying. Blair, even hopeless Brown, were in that group. So is Hillary Benn et al, so in fairness is Jo Swinson with whom I agree about just about nothing, but, Corbyn, et al? Christ I hope they are removed from our public life forthwith never to be seen again. Now.
Yes, very true. I feel that Corbyn and Co actively hate me, as a successful higher earner. They don’t just want to tax me more, like most Labour leaders, they want me to suffer just because, and ultimately they want me out of the country simply because I have made money so I must be evil. And if that impoverishes the nation then fuck it. The nation deserves to suffer anyway, because Britain is awful and racist.
It isn't just high earners that they hate. It's business. It's America. It's the West. Frankly I suspect that deep down they hate this country as it is, and want to utterly change it forever.
Of course they hate Britain. I genuinely think one of the justifications for their mad experimental neo-communism is this: fuck it, if it all goes wrong, it’s Britain that will suffer, and imperialist, bigoted Britain deserves to suffer.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I am not a fan of Corbyn but I really, genuinely, find it totally incomprehensible that seemingly rational people treat the prospect of him becoming PM in such 'end of days' ways.
Just think about it for a minute. Corbyn as PM will never be able to implement anything more more left-wing than the kind of social democracy seen on and off acros much of western Europe since the war. He will be moderated by rebel soft-left Labour MPs, not to mention his almost certain need to bring along coalition partners.
A Corbyn-led government may not be what you'd choose life will go on, unchanged for many, a bit better for some, a bit worse for others.
Ok. But I’m not prepared to take the risk.
I’m lucky enough ( through taxed work I might add!) to be pretty liquid right now. I’m not going to dick about relying on the goodwill of people I consider totally out to screw people like me.
The money will put out of the country. End of. It’s my air raid shelter from the loons.
Where are you putting your money? Somewhere unaffected by climate change hopefully?
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
I don’t mind my leaders getting pissed now and again and falling over, or having an active sex life, or generally being human with flaws. It’s better than some monk like fanatical loon.
But beyond that the question is for all their faults: is this person on my side? I might disagree with their way of going about being on my side and disagree about loads of stuff but I won’t lie awake at night worrying. Blair, even hopeless Brown, were in that group. So is Hillary Benn et al, so in fairness is Jo Swinson with whom I agree about just about nothing, but, Corbyn, et al? Christ I hope they are removed from our public life forthwith never to be seen again. Now.
Yes, very true. I feel that Corbyn and Co actively hate me, as a successful higher earner. They don’t just want to tax me more, like most Labour leaders, they want me to suffer just because, and ultimately they want me out of the country simply because I have made money so I must be evil. And if that impoverishes the nation then fuck it. The nation deserves to suffer anyway, because Britain is awful and racist.
You're never in the country anyway!
Yes but I bloody well am. I’m in Cardiff! And I agree with Byronic.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I am not a fan of Corbyn but I really, genuinely, find it totally incomprehensible that seemingly rational people treat the prospect of him becoming PM in such 'end of days' ways.
Just think about it for a minute. Corbyn as PM will never be able to implement anything more more left-wing than the kind of social democracy seen on and off acros much of western Europe since the war. He will be moderated by rebel soft-left Labour MPs, not to mention his almost certain need to bring along coalition partners.
A Corbyn-led government may not be what you'd choose life will go on, unchanged for many, a bit better for some, a bit worse for others.
People said EXACTLY this about Hitler. Not vaguely similar, EXACTLY.
Corbyn might be just a mild anti Semite and a genial old commie, of limited brain. But he is surrounded by very smart and deeply sinister people who would LOVE to dissolve Britain in the economic super-acid of Chavezism. The threat is very real, and very present. The UK has not been in such danger, since world war 2.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the woke mille Time for Joe average to take charge and the permanently woke and offended, politico brigade to shut their yaks and take our government for 5 years
I wouldn't give a shit what he'd written if it hadn't led directly to women getting attacked in the street. Joe average will get a rude awakening a few years into this government of Etonians who - guess what - really don't care about Joe average. I am getting so tired of this culture war nonsense, it's just like Trump, appealing to uneducated white men by thinly coded attacks on women and minorities. Pathetic that people can't see how they're being manipulated.
However the truly pathetic thing is the 3 and a half years of politicians and the Lawyer Boy and Gina Millers of this world doing everything they can to overturn the referendum. The Boris govt will deliver it and if, after that, they abandon the voters that put them there theyll get booted in 2024.
If the leavers had a plan for delivering Brexit in a way that didn't fuck the economy it would have happened by now. The plan is now to fuck the economy in the first year of a five year term and spend the next four years hoping things improve. The economy is already in trouble, the flash PMI surveys for November were dire.
I missed that earlier today. They look pretty grim.
Except that the decline clearly begins in 2014, not with the Brexit vote. The whole world is headed for recession, not just us. If anything, it’s overdue.
Until 2016 the UK PMIs were almost always above the euro area's; since 2016 they have been almost always below. But revealing that the Tory supporters are already softening us up for the Brexit recession. Or Brecession.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I am not a fan of Corbyn but I really, genuinely, find it totally incomprehensible that seemingly rational people treat the prospect of him becoming PM in such 'end of days' ways.
Just think about it for a minute. Corbyn as PM will never be able to implement anything more more left-wing than the kind of social democracy seen on and off acros much of western Europe since the war. He will be moderated by rebel soft-left Labour MPs, not to mention his almost certain need to bring along coalition partners.
A Corbyn-led government may not be what you'd choose life will go on, unchanged for many, a bit better for some, a bit worse for others.
People said EXACTLY this about Hitler. Not vaguely similar, EXACTLY.
Corbyn might be just a mild anti Semite and a genial old commie, of limited brain. But he is surrounded by very smart and deeply sinister people who would LOVE to dissolve Britain in the economic super-acid of Chavezism. The threat is very real, and very present. The UK has not been in such danger, since world war 2.
Utterly bizarre post.
Quite right. Some people don't seem to realise that History has ended and nothing bad can now happen.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I am not a fan of Corbyn but I really, genuinely, find it totally incomprehensible that seemingly rational people treat the prospect of him becoming PM in such 'end of days' ways.
Just think about it for a minute. Corbyn as PM will never be able to implement anything more more left-wing than the kind of social democracy seen on and off acros much of western Europe since the war. He will be moderated by rebel soft-left Labour MPs, not to mention his almost certain need to bring along coalition partners.
A Corbyn-led government may not be what you'd choose life will go on, unchanged for many, a bit better for some, a bit worse for others.
People said EXACTLY this about Hitler. Not vaguely similar, EXACTLY.
Corbyn might be just a mild anti Semite and a genial old commie, of limited brain. But he is surrounded by very smart and deeply sinister people who would LOVE to dissolve Britain in the economic super-acid of Chavezism. The threat is very real, and very present. The UK has not been in such danger, since world war 2.
There it is again. Corbyn is as deadly as Hitler *and* Stalin.
Apropos of nothing, has anyone ever read "Why the Owl Behaves As It Does" by Ted Hughes? Great story, metaphor for...something:
One lesson from tonight is that a six week campaign shows that simple soundbites aren't everything. Swinson's revoke hasn't stood the test of time. Boris Johnson's Get Brexit Done sounds demented. Three more weeks and we'll all be pulling our hair out. Labour who were derided for having a more nuanced stance has turned out to be the only one with legs. Maybe the electorate aren't simpletons?
"Get Brexit Done" risks being the 2019 version of "Strong and Stable Government".
Johnson came very close to saying strong and stable at one point, you almost saw him jolt as Cummings pressed a button back in the bunker.
Strong & stable collapsed when May changed tack and clearly wasnt S&S at all.
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I am not a fan of Corbyn but I really, genuinely, find it totally incomprehensible that seemingly rational people treat the prospect of him becoming PM in such 'end of days' ways.
Just think about it for a minute. Corbyn as PM will never be able to implement anything more more left-wing than the kind of social democracy seen on and off acros much of western Europe since the war. He will be moderated by rebel soft-left Labour MPs, not to mention his almost certain need to bring along coalition partners.
A Corbyn-led government may not be what you'd choose life will go on, unchanged for many, a bit better for some, a bit worse for others.
I don't see why you find that incomprehensible in the slightest, unless you are deliberately not seeing the view of the alternative side, who will be equally baffled that people worry about Boris.
Unfortunately a short Corbyn premiership is probably necessary in order to get a referendum (and as you essentially note he cannot be as bad as people fear), but its really not much a defence to assume he will be moderated, or that it won't be as bad as people fear. It surely will not, but what does that even matter? Boris won't be as bad as people fear, Brexit won't be as bad as people fear, it doesn't mean people cannot and should not shit a brick at the prospect.
There are people who react to every election victory of their opponents as if it is the end of days, there's really not much special about Boris or Corbyn in that occurring now as well. Claims of bafflement that people do that is just ignoring the many reasons people give, the value judgements they make, even if wrong.
It's not incomprehensible at all, its very comprehensible. What it seems you mean is you disagree with people who hold that level of fear.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
I don’t mind my leaders getting pissed now and again and falling over, or having an active sex life, or generally being human with flaws. It’s better than some monk like fanatical loon.
But beyond that the question is for all their faults: is this person on my side? I might disagree with their way of going about being on my side and disagree about loads of stuff but I won’t lie awake at night worrying. Blair, even hopeless Brown, were in that group. So is Hillary Benn et al, so in fairness is Jo Swinson with whom I agree about just about nothing, but, Corbyn, et al? Christ I hope they are removed from our public life forthwith never to be seen again. Now.
Yes, very true. I feel that Corbyn and Co actively hate me, as a successful higher earner. They don’t just want to tax me more, like most Labour leaders, they want me to suffer just because, and ultimately they want me out of the country simply because I have made money so I must be evil. And if that impoverishes the nation then fuck it. The nation deserves to suffer anyway, because Britain is awful and racist.
You're never in the country anyway!
Yes but I bloody well am. I’m in Cardiff! And I agree with Byronic.
I just thought it was funny that a man who is always out of the country complains that Labour wants him out of the country. Anyway, enjoy Cardiff, I'm sure it's nice.
If anyone else, for example Corbyn or Farage, had said 'tank top bum boys' 'watermelon smiles' 'letterboxes' and 'picanninies' they would be on the racks. Johnson couldn't even bring himself to say he could understand how people could find it offensive.
At least he's honest. He isn't sorry, he doesn't care, and as we have learned here it goes down well with loveable flat capped racists anyway.
That's it, everyone that doesn't worship at the altar of progressive bollocks is a flat cap racist. And theres the sneering superiority of the 'progressives' and why theyll never understand, get, or appeal to normal human beings
You are the one who was trading in absurd stereotypes, I was sneering at you not "normal human beings." If you think it's "progressive bollocks" to believe that it's wrong to use language that gets women punched in the street then great. I grew up in the North of England and Scotland, went to a comprehensive, consider myself a "normal human being". I just hate racists. Sorry if that upsets you.
Except I caged the language to ensure it wasn't a stereotype as I wasn't claiming that all working class people are homogeneous, I gave an example of some swing voter 'types' What gets women punched in the streets is violent morons who use words of others as a fig leaf. I dont believe Boris article was racist, you do, it's a view but not one with which I agree.
Just think about it for a minute. Corbyn as PM will never be able to implement anything more more left-wing than the kind of social democracy seen on and off across much of western Europe since the war. He will be moderated by rebel soft-left Labour MPs, not to mention his almost certain need to bring along coalition partners.
Labour's backbench MPs will exercise virtually no moderating influence over a Corbyn Government. They are mainly concerned with keeping their jobs. All the ones willing to genuinely challenge him, of whom there were precious few to begin with, have already left.
The possible coalition partners are all just as useless. The Lib Dems and SNP would both sell their own grandmothers to the Pedigree Chum factory in exchange for various referendums. Plaid and the Greens are as nutty as the Labour Left or worse.
A Labour Government under the present management would blow up the foundations of the economy in months. The violation of property rights inherent in forcing large companies to hand shares over to a state quango would do the job on its own. Why should anyone from abroad invest capital in this country, and why should anyone at home or abroad invest in a UK-listed firm, if the Government obviously feels free to confiscate whatever they want on a whim at any time?
And the notion that the vast increases in public spending proposed by Labour can be funded painlessly for 95% of the population, simply by taxing the rich until the pips squeak and hiking business taxation, is laughable. The most well-off taxpayers are, predominantly, also the most mobile and can run away if sumptuary levels of taxation are imposed. The businesses will respond by cutting investment in the UK, sacking workers to balance the books and putting up prices to consumers. The extra revenue raised by the windfall tax proposed on oil and gas firms, for example, will simply be negated by the costs of rising petrol and domestic fuel prices for consumers, and of unemployment for the oil industry workers who'll be laid off.
The risks inherent in a Labour Government are, at present, vastly greater than those associated with Brexit. If the Revolutionary Friends of Venezuela fall flat on their faces come December 12th then it will be a huge relief. The worse they lose, the better.
The audiences are always awful these days. (You can tell I'm not seeking votes from anyone).
I thought the 10 o'clock news overdid the "they're all awful" stuff, almost as though they wanted to encourage disillusionment. Both Johnson and Corbyn had some sympathetic questions which were airbrushed out - both of them have a decent number of real support, so why in fairness not interview some of them too?
Johnson did not have a single sympathetic 'question'.
Or a single member of the audience, unlike that Labour toady climbing into Corbyn's rectum.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
I don’t mind my leaders getting pissed now and again and falling over, or having an active sex life, or generally being human with flaws. It’s better than some monk like fanatical loon.
But beyond that the question is for all their faults: is this person on my side? I might disagree with their way of going about being on my side and disagree about loads of stuff but I won’t lie awake at night worrying. Blair, even hopeless Brown, were in that group. So is Hillary Benn et al, so in fairness is Jo Swinson with whom I agree about just about nothing, but, Corbyn, et al? Christ I hope they are removed from our public life forthwith never to be seen again. Now.
Yes, very true. I feel that Corbyn and Co actively hate me, as a successful higher earner. They don’t just want to tax me more, like most Labour leaders, they want me to suffer just because, and ultimately they want me out of the country simply because I have made money so I must be evil. And if that impoverishes the nation then fuck it. The nation deserves to suffer anyway, because Britain is awful and racist.
You're never in the country anyway!
Yes but I bloody well am. I’m in Cardiff! And I agree with Byronic.
I just thought it was funny that a man who is always out of the country complains that Labour wants him out of the country. Anyway, enjoy Cardiff, I'm sure it's nice.
Yup it’s great. Curry on Wellfield Rd tonight top notch diolch yn fawr.
I can see why Boris's enemies hate him so much. There seems to be a mountain of ammunition against him for many reasons, some legitimate, some not, but however he responds, he is utterly compelling in a way that none of the other politicians can reproduce. And therein lies Labour's problem with those millions of leave voters who are going to exact a bloody revenge against them. They'll hold their nose and vote for Boris in a way that millions of Tory remainers will not vote for Corbyn.
I think it's because when people look at Boris they see a flawed human being who won't judge them, whereas Corbyn is an even more flawed human being who will...
That's a very good point.
Plus for all the s
I wouldn't give a shit what he'd written if it hadn't led directly to women getting attacked in the street. Joe average will get a rude awakening a few years into this government of Etonians who - guess what - really don't care about Joe average. I am getting so tired of this culture war nonsense, it's just like Trump, appealing to uneducated white men by thinly coded attacks on women and minorities. Pathetic that people can't see how they're being manipulated.
However the truly pathetic thing is the 3 and a half years of politicians and the Lawyer Boy and Gina Millers of this world doing everything they can to overturn the referendum. The Boris govt will deliver it and if, after that, they abandon the voters that put them there theyll get booted in 2024.
If the leavers .
I missed that earlier today. They look pretty grim.
Except that the decline clearly begins in 2014, not with the Brexit vote. The whole world is headed for recession, not just us. If anything, it’s overdue.
I don't blame the forthcoming recession on Brexit, I think that it was coming anyway, but a Brexit is particularly poorly timed to maximise the damage.
They do look bad everywhere, but we are at the bottom of the range.
If anyone else, for example Corbyn or Farage, had said 'tank top bum boys' 'watermelon smiles' 'letterboxes' and 'picanninies' they would be on the racks. Johnson couldn't even bring himself to say he could understand how people could find it offensive.
At least he's honest. He isn't sorry, he doesn't care, and as we have learned here it goes down well with loveable flat capped racists anyway.
That's it, everyone that doesn't worship at the altar of progressive bollocks is a flat cap racist. And theres the sneering superiority of the 'progressives' and why theyll never understand, get, or appeal to normal human beings
You are the one who was trading in absurd stereotypes, I was sneering at you not "normal human beings." If you think it's "progressive bollocks" to believe that it's wrong to use language that gets women punched in the street then great. I grew up in the North of England and Scotland, went to a comprehensive, consider myself a "normal human being". I just hate racists. Sorry if that upsets you.
Except I caged the language to ensure it wasn't a stereotype as I wasn't claiming that all working class people are homogeneous, I gave an example of some swing voter 'types' What gets women punched in the streets is violent morons who use words of others as a fig leaf. I dont believe Boris article was racist, you do, it's a view but not one with which I agree.
And yet after the article was published attacks spiked. So you may have seen nothing racist in it but something in it certainly spoke to those violent morons, who felt licensed by someone in a powerful position 'speaking their language' to go out and inflict violence on innocent women. And Johnson can't even apologise, it's disgusting.
Commendable leadership so he can get two best possible options and put them to the public. He understands the country is split. He reasonably feels that will be the most unifying approach.
Even you can't possibly believe that 😂
Really, which bit can't I believe, and care to set-out why so?
A referendum with a real outcome is necessary (rather than a lie telling people there'd be an easy deal, loads of money, and single market as people were falsely told). The Tory government had more than 3 years, and got a deal and expected parliament to agree it in 3 days or crash out.
If you're inferring Corbyn also has his own and political reasoning, then I concede that bit. But regardless, the Lab/Green/SNP/PC/SF/ALL/SDLP position (and to an extent the LD position) is a far far better position than the Tories, far better for the economy and far better for Northern Ireland and far better for avoiding a worse decline into ongoing 'dithering' about Brexit and economic harm - the Tories plan would mean years of wrangling. We have no clue what actual long-term plan they have - only the withdrawal agreement which is just the start.
If you think we should Remain then say so, not stay neutral.
If you think we should Leave then say why and what benefits we'll get from Leaving, not stay neutral.
What benefits will we get from Corbyn's Leave but remain in single market, remain in customs union and keep free movement deal?
A decision for a positionally-fractured nation, without the perceived bias of a PM/Gov (if not all members), so they unify beyond the referendum. It's happened elsewhere on very divisive issues (very slightly analogous to the role of a monarch or head of state).
The benefit we'd get from leave but remain in EFTA or similar is: more freedom from the EU as demanded by half voting population, more economic freedoms, fishery freedoms, freedom to more easily nationalise bus/rail, judicial freedoms, paying less, whilst retaining and protecting the border with NI (and possibly Scotland in future); protecting also ease of travel, treatment abroad, mobility (and even mobile roaming!), integrated integration with EU criminal and terrorist systems and European environmental standards. And trade without years of more pain and divisiveness. And importantly: a compromise between a roughly 50:50 split nation.
It's feasible people on both sides may see it as a failure, but it's also feasible that it can be sold and accepted as unifying.
I prefer remain, but... Indeed, this compromise option (if LD, SNP, GRN, CHUK, had voted with it in indicative votes) would have won in last parliament.
Interesting from Jonathan Freedland n the guardian
He is all over the place trying to convince himself and others there is a way to a Labour government (clue he will need Plaid and the SNP even on a good day).
But tucked away is this little bit of information
" I’m told that at one focus group in a northern Labour seat this week, the party’s free broadband offer was “laughed out of the room”."
“State internet”. What could people see wrong in that🥴?. I mean there’s 100% approval in Pyongyang.
I've used the state-provided Internet in Cuba and the competitive Internet in Cambodia, which is a much poorer country. The latter is way, way better.
I never thought I'd be using Cuba as an example in a British election campaign.
If anyone else, for example Corbyn or Farage, had said 'tank top bum boys' 'watermelon smiles' 'letterboxes' and 'picanninies' they would be on the racks. Johnson couldn't even bring himself to say he could understand how people could find it offensive.
At least he's honest. He isn't sorry, he doesn't care, and as we have learned here it goes down well with loveable flat capped racists anyway.
I missed all the fun and games. Sounds like another ranty shouty more heat than light type of event.
I have just come back from dinner with a former big Corbyn fan / Team Red all their life / Remainer. They are of course still going to vote Labour, but now have little to say about Jezza and Brexit, the response was I'm sick of it, just get it done now. When I said, what about Labour's re-re-renegotiation followed by a 2nd referendum...lets just say the response was unpublishable.
Definitely.
But that also illustrates people vote for other things, and it was noticeable that the audience tonight forced Boris on from that issues (unlike during the head-to-head debate).
Climate change should be way more important than Brexit.
The reality is that whatever happens with Brexit, there is no end in sight. But the Tory option will drag out the longest, and likely be very painful. It's a shame that's not pointed out to people as much.
As citizens we have no choice but to contend with these issues, brexit, climate change. social care, public investment, what systems we use to manage our resources (including our land and money).
EVERY single question to johnson is about trust accompanied by cheers from the audience. Doesn't that say something?
That the audience hates Boris?
No. That that they think he's a proven liar
The point is, Roger, nobody other than committed Labour voters, cares. Swing voters may distrust Johnson, but they fear Corbyn.
Quite. Boris is not the Messiah he’s a naughty boy to borrow a phrase. Personally in my fantasy world Boris would bulldoze Brexit through and we’d then have 15 years of pretty centerist PM Rory Stewart ( I know, I know).
However, I am sitting here looking at the opinion polls judging whether to send money out of the country big time ( for me ) if I judge Corbyn walking down Downing St on Dec 13 is possible. No bullshit, I’ve set it up ready to go at one command. Because I’m fucking scared. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I am not a fan of Corbyn but I really, genuinely, find it totally incomprehensible that seemingly rational people treat the prospect of him becoming PM in such 'end of days' ways.
Just think about it for a minute. Corbyn as PM will never be able to implement anything more more left-wing than the kind of social democracy seen on and off acros much of western Europe since the war. He will be moderated by rebel soft-left Labour MPs, not to mention his almost certain need to bring along coalition partners.
A Corbyn-led government may not be what you'd choose life will go on, unchanged for many, a bit better for some, a bit worse for others.
Ok. But I’m not prepared to take the risk.
I’m lucky enough ( through taxed work I might add!) to be pretty liquid right now. I’m not going to dick about relying on the goodwill of people I consider totally out to screw people like me.
The money will put out of the country. End of. It’s my air raid shelter from the loons.
Where are you putting your money? Somewhere unaffected by climate change hopefully?
Jesus fucking Christ what a handwringing dumb ass question. Like I give a fuck to tell you if it’s in a Greta fucking Thunberg far enough above sea level zone. Jesus!
Comments
Plenty of tweets and headlines tonight on Corbyn's neutrality on a Brexit referendum.
Fortunately, the Americans aren't proving so boring. Bloomberg has bought $30million of ads starting next week - the advantage of actually being a billionaire, unlike Trump. Have to wonder how far it'll get him though.
With overnight and overseas trading it probably won't even take until 9am. Would make the changes on the night of the EU Referendum be a drop in the ocean.
I’m lucky enough ( through taxed work I might add!) to be pretty liquid right now. I’m not going to dick about relying on the goodwill of people I consider totally out to screw people like me.
The money will put out of the country. End of. It’s my air raid shelter from the loons.
So, bite me, offhand sneerer
All of the racist and misogynist votes?
If even Corbyn is voting for Johnson, then it’s well and truly over for Labour.
It's...interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-WejNhPhiY
Corbyn might be just a mild anti Semite and a genial old commie, of limited brain. But he is surrounded by very smart and deeply sinister people who would LOVE to dissolve Britain in the economic super-acid of Chavezism. The threat is very real, and very present. The UK has not been in such danger, since world war 2.
https://twitter.com/SunPolitics/status/1197640432261509122?s=20
https://twitter.com/IHSMarkitPMI/status/1197810951506014208?s=09
Of course they hate Britain. I genuinely think one of the justifications for their mad experimental neo-communism is this: fuck it, if it all goes wrong, it’s Britain that will suffer, and imperialist, bigoted Britain deserves to suffer.
Apropos of nothing, has anyone ever read "Why the Owl Behaves As It Does" by Ted Hughes? Great story, metaphor for...something:
http://ashlaknights.net/blogs/david/2010/05/02/story-time/
Unfortunately a short Corbyn premiership is probably necessary in order to get a referendum (and as you essentially note he cannot be as bad as people fear), but its really not much a defence to assume he will be moderated, or that it won't be as bad as people fear. It surely will not, but what does that even matter? Boris won't be as bad as people fear, Brexit won't be as bad as people fear, it doesn't mean people cannot and should not shit a brick at the prospect.
There are people who react to every election victory of their opponents as if it is the end of days, there's really not much special about Boris or Corbyn in that occurring now as well. Claims of bafflement that people do that is just ignoring the many reasons people give, the value judgements they make, even if wrong.
It's not incomprehensible at all, its very comprehensible. What it seems you mean is you disagree with people who hold that level of fear.
What gets women punched in the streets is violent morons who use words of others as a fig leaf. I dont believe Boris article was racist, you do, it's a view but not one with which I agree.
The possible coalition partners are all just as useless. The Lib Dems and SNP would both sell their own grandmothers to the Pedigree Chum factory in exchange for various referendums. Plaid and the Greens are as nutty as the Labour Left or worse.
A Labour Government under the present management would blow up the foundations of the economy in months. The violation of property rights inherent in forcing large companies to hand shares over to a state quango would do the job on its own. Why should anyone from abroad invest capital in this country, and why should anyone at home or abroad invest in a UK-listed firm, if the Government obviously feels free to confiscate whatever they want on a whim at any time?
And the notion that the vast increases in public spending proposed by Labour can be funded painlessly for 95% of the population, simply by taxing the rich until the pips squeak and hiking business taxation, is laughable. The most well-off taxpayers are, predominantly, also the most mobile and can run away if sumptuary levels of taxation are imposed. The businesses will respond by cutting investment in the UK, sacking workers to balance the books and putting up prices to consumers. The extra revenue raised by the windfall tax proposed on oil and gas firms, for example, will simply be negated by the costs of rising petrol and domestic fuel prices for consumers, and of unemployment for the oil industry workers who'll be laid off.
The risks inherent in a Labour Government are, at present, vastly greater than those associated with Brexit. If the Revolutionary Friends of Venezuela fall flat on their faces come December 12th then it will be a huge relief. The worse they lose, the better.
They do look bad everywhere, but we are at the bottom of the range.
https://twitter.com/IHSMarkitPMI/status/1197807941484785665?s=19
https://twitter.com/IHSMarkitPMI/status/1195175094252974080?s=09
The benefit we'd get from leave but remain in EFTA or similar is: more freedom from the EU as demanded by half voting population, more economic freedoms, fishery freedoms, freedom to more easily nationalise bus/rail, judicial freedoms, paying less, whilst retaining and protecting the border with NI (and possibly Scotland in future); protecting also ease of travel, treatment abroad, mobility (and even mobile roaming!), integrated integration with EU criminal and terrorist systems and European environmental standards. And trade without years of more pain and divisiveness.
And importantly: a compromise between a roughly 50:50 split nation.
It's feasible people on both sides may see it as a failure, but it's also feasible that it can be sold and accepted as unifying.
I prefer remain, but... Indeed, this compromise option (if LD, SNP, GRN, CHUK, had voted with it in indicative votes) would have won in last parliament.
I never thought I'd be using Cuba as an example in a British election campaign.
But that also illustrates people vote for other things, and it was noticeable that the audience tonight forced Boris on from that issues (unlike during the head-to-head debate).
Climate change should be way more important than Brexit.
The reality is that whatever happens with Brexit, there is no end in sight.
But the Tory option will drag out the longest, and likely be very painful.
It's a shame that's not pointed out to people as much.
As citizens we have no choice but to contend with these issues, brexit, climate change. social care, public investment, what systems we use to manage our resources (including our land and money).