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  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Has Theresa Villiers said anything yet? As a Spartan and a former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, she’s likely to be influential.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:



    The fact that 52% of Scots will now accept Brexit and respect the Leave vote even though a majority of them voted Remain is nonetheless a boost to Boris and a blow to the SNP

    Are you an idiot? Do you believe what you have just written or are you actively pushing misinformation.
    Someone's touchy this evening...must be a difficult poll for a Nat, I quite understand
    Why are you happy to exclude the don't knows from your poll but happy to point out they're not included in the 50% indy poll?
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    Stocky said:

    isam said "How can Leave not be fav over GE?"

    Because of the strong possibility of a VONC then GE

    But the odds are shorter on us leaving by November than an election this year.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    Theresa Villiers, Steve Baker, Bill Cash, John Redwood - all quiet as far as I can tell. I`ll be amazed if Boris gets them all on board given that DUP are opposed.
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 438
    Stocky said:

    isam said "How can Leave not be fav over GE?"

    Because of the strong possibility of a VONC then GE

    Nope. No sorry.

    Which betting market to place our money on? I think today settles it. It’s now obvious what happens first, the psychology of the situation, the vanity versus their options once this deal loses in commons, election nor Brexit an option to them, those options really not there yet their vanity their cause to exist very strong, therefore something justifies the extension,

    When Dublin whispered sweet things to him in the love garden he should have been wise to reject I had my doubts about his judgment. When he picked the DUP up and threw them under a bus I am convinced there’s far too much putting self interest before everything else. Put all your money on a second/confirmatory ref before anything else happens. No Brexit no election before Boris deal v remain goes to the country. That’s what I’m doing.
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    UK to leave the EU on or by 31 Oct is 2.8 on Betfair

    A GE in 2019 is 2.88


    Now it’s 2.56 and 2.96

    How can Leave not be fav over GE?
    It's not easy to see how the deal passes. Even if every Conservative, whipless or not, votes in favour, you need a (Steve) Baker's dozen of opposition MPs to get the deal over the line. And Saturday will be as good as it gets- the more people talk, the more they will find to dislike.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    Er,

    Soft or no border with RoI and a lot of congruence with EU: check.

    Hardish border with GB: check.

    Sounds a lot like a not very baby but actially quite grown-up step towards reunification?

    Yes, I was being ironic! Varadker has layed an absolute blinder and created a de facto single Irish economic area forever. A political union will follow soon enough. Its the direction of travel in Northern Ireland demographically and, crucially, in the former Conservative and Unionist Party.

    Nope, a hard border was the best chance for Irish unity, Boris has avoided that and Northern Ireland will still stay in the same Customs area as GB
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,787

    Has Theresa Villiers said anything yet? As a Spartan and a former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, she’s likely to be influential.

    Buzzfeed think she's on board.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/brexit-rebels-backing-boris-johnson-deal
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Has Theresa Villiers said anything yet? As a Spartan and a former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, she’s likely to be influential.

    Please stop using the word Spartan
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751

    isam said:

    isam said:

    UK to leave the EU on or by 31 Oct is 2.8 on Betfair

    A GE in 2019 is 2.88


    Now it’s 2.56 and 2.96

    How can Leave not be fav over GE?
    It's not easy to see how the deal passes. Even if every Conservative, whipless or not, votes in favour, you need a (Steve) Baker's dozen of opposition MPs to get the deal over the line. And Saturday will be as good as it gets- the more people talk, the more they will find to dislike.notice that Johnson has conceded everything the EU wanted while apparently thinking otherwise, just as Cummings did with civil servants at the department of Education
    FTFY

    History repeating itself.

    Common factor - a rude, ignorant and not very bright man who thinks he’s a genius.
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 438

    Has Theresa Villiers said anything yet? As a Spartan and a former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, she’s likely to be influential.


    Some Spartans gone very quiet since DUP said too much given away in desperation for a deal. Yet all the Borismaniacs on here talk about is how many labour MPs on top of every Conservative.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
    Despite having been there this week you still don't understand the dynamics of this.

    What has just happened is that the two entities on the island of Ireland have become more detached from the mainland while remaining aligned with each other.

    Read through your Conservative Party email from today. It explicitly separates the mainland from NI.
    No, my visit to NI has just reinforced my view, no border when travelling between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has kept so no incentive or need for a united Ireland. Plus Northern Ireland still stays in the UK customs area.

    In Antrim the Protestant and Unionist identity is also clear for all to see, as I witnessed posters decrying 'betrayal of the paras in favour of the IRA' in Bushmills so the conditions for UDI in Antrim are certainly there even if there ever was a vote for a united Ireland in the other counties of Northern Ireland
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731

    isam said:

    isam said:

    UK to leave the EU on or by 31 Oct is 2.8 on Betfair

    A GE in 2019 is 2.88


    Now it’s 2.56 and 2.96

    How can Leave not be fav over GE?
    It's not easy to see how the deal passes. Even if every Conservative, whipless or not, votes in favour, you need a (Steve) Baker's dozen of opposition MPs to get the deal over the line. And Saturday will be as good as it gets- the more people talk, the more they will find to dislike.
    So lay the deal passing at 13/8?

    I asked earlier, I’m curious to know how long you’ve lived in Romford and what you think of it? I have lived in Hornchurch or Upminster most of my life, and Romford is a no go area now, having been the place we all went 20 years ago
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    Zephyr said:

    Has Theresa Villiers said anything yet? As a Spartan and a former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, she’s likely to be influential.


    Some Spartans gone very quiet since DUP said too much given away in desperation for a deal. Yet all the Borismaniacs on here talk about is how many labour MPs on top of every Conservative.
    Laura Pidcock, who has never even kissed a Tory, will not be too thrilled at the idea of this, even if the Labour MPs are at least on top!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited October 2019

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:



    The fact that 52% of Scots will now accept Brexit and respect the Leave vote even though a majority of them voted Remain is nonetheless a boost to Boris and a blow to the SNP

    Are you an idiot? Do you believe what you have just written or are you actively pushing misinformation.
    Someone's touchy this evening...must be a difficult poll for a Nat, I quite understand
    Why are you happy to exclude the don't knows from your poll but happy to point out they're not included in the 50% indy poll?
    As don't knows lean Leave and for the Union as the 2014 and 2016 referendums prove
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    If the commons passes it, will Nov 1st be the first day we are officially out?

    If it all goes according to plan we'll only be in for 23 hours on the 31st ;)
    On the first day of BINO, the EU gave to me.....
    Well I’m waiting to hear all the real actionable benefits that I’m about to receive on 1/11 the ones that were worth this shit fest for three years that are going to have any positive impact in my life. I can have a blue passport but is there anything else that actually means anything without resorting to ridiculous argument about sovereignty which actually is a load of bull because our voting system makes the majority of votes worthless.
    You have absolutely no right to talk about votes being worthless when you want to ignore the vote of 17.4 million people just because you lost.

    I have every right to talk about an election process that is a disgrace, I also have every right to call out a leave vote that was predicated on lies and half truths. Why should I have to accept, without question, what is being inflicted on me when there are no discernible benefits from it and will, over time, actually harm the people who voted for it. I will continue to say leaving is the worst thing the UK has ever done and is only actually getting public support because they think they have had enough. Let’s see how many of the 17.4 million can be arsed getting off the sofa for a second referendum if they think this is such a brilliant idea.
    Blah blah blah. You are just looking for excuses to ignore a democratic vote.

    And a losers revote will be boycotted by anyone who actually believes in democracy. Which of course doesn't include you.
    I hope they boycott it so the remain vote wins. I don’t actually think that gut feel votes in a stupid referendum actually reflects democracy. There are no benefits in leaving apart from those who protect their off shore investments from financially transparency regulations due in 2020.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Freggles said:

    Has Theresa Villiers said anything yet? As a Spartan and a former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, she’s likely to be influential.

    Please stop using the word Spartan
    It’s a convenient identifier that the relevant group does not find abusive.
  • I do wish people wouldn’t talk in such absolutes.

    The May deal was “better” if your target is a very close, EEA type end state and you think the U.K. being in a customs union with the EU is tolerable, or even desirable (In the way the actual EEA does not).

    The Boris deal is better if you think you’ll have the numbers in Parliament for a simpler free trade deal when the crunch comes (post election), AND you don’t mind really going for no deal in a year or two if the EU cuts up rough over fishing or agriculture (though the NI arrangement would make that pretty painful for them).

    As ever, neither side gets the fact that some people really do think no deal is terrifying; and some of us really do think there’s nothing to fear long term if we had to.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    Zephyr said:

    kle4 said:

    So Matt Goodwin asked me for my prediction for Saturday's vote.

    I'm going for a government defeat that is smaller than MV3.

    All great people are predicting that.
    Every Labour MP who say they may back the deal always add a caveat to cover themselves when they don’t. Labour support will be comfortably in single figures. I expect the ERG to back the DUP too. The line they will use is the negotiation looked promising until too much was surrendered at the last minute to get it over the line. It will lose by 40+ the margin of likely defeat will grow in the coming days.

    Where does that leave us.

    what happened the last time someone outed their idea of Brexit and nailed themselves to a deal? They have power, promise, magic, Its like a big balloon being punctured, the air just slowly quietly farts out from here. Not Boris day of triumph, today is the day that haunts him, delivering brexit, winning a commons majority all gone now.
    Well, it's a view.....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    Er,

    Soft or no border with RoI and a lot of congruence with EU: check.

    Hardish border with GB: check.

    Sounds a lot like a not very baby but actially quite grown-up step towards reunification?

    Yes, I was being ironic! Varadker has layed an absolute blinder and created a de facto single Irish economic area forever. A political union will follow soon enough. Its the direction of travel in Northern Ireland demographically and, crucially, in the former Conservative and Unionist Party.

    Nope, a hard border was the best chance for Irish unity, Boris has avoided that and Northern Ireland will still stay in the same Customs area as GB
    No. A hard border might have reignited the Troubles although such an idea is moot as no PM could have overseen one.

    Meanwhile to align NI and the RoI while detaching them, together, regulatorily from the mainland is encouraging unification.

    I am not hugely surprised that you can't see this but I am happy to keep pointing it out to you.
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 438
    ydoethur said:

    Zephyr said:

    Has Theresa Villiers said anything yet? As a Spartan and a former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, she’s likely to be influential.


    Some Spartans gone very quiet since DUP said too much given away in desperation for a deal. Yet all the Borismaniacs on here talk about is how many labour MPs on top of every Conservative.
    Laura Pidcock, who has never even kissed a Tory, will not be too thrilled at the idea of this, even if the Labour MPs are at least on top!
    You thinking randy thoughts again doctor?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    Freggles said: "Please stop using the word Spartan"

    Why?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    Zephyr said:

    ydoethur said:

    Zephyr said:

    Has Theresa Villiers said anything yet? As a Spartan and a former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, she’s likely to be influential.


    Some Spartans gone very quiet since DUP said too much given away in desperation for a deal. Yet all the Borismaniacs on here talk about is how many labour MPs on top of every Conservative.
    Laura Pidcock, who has never even kissed a Tory, will not be too thrilled at the idea of this, even if the Labour MPs are at least on top!
    You thinking randy thoughts again doctor?
    Well, why not? It’s nearly the weekend and in six months it will be the Spring!
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    Er,

    Soft or no border with RoI and a lot of congruence with EU: check.

    Hardish border with GB: check.

    Sounds a lot like a not very baby but actially quite grown-up step towards reunification?

    Yes, I was being ironic! Varadker has layed an absolute blinder and created a de facto single Irish economic area forever. A political union will follow soon enough. Its the direction of travel in Northern Ireland demographically and, crucially, in the former Conservative and Unionist Party.

    Nope, a hard border was the best chance for Irish unity, Boris has avoided that and Northern Ireland will still stay in the same Customs area as GB.

    Which, of course, is why the DUP is so enthusiastic about it!
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 438

    Zephyr said:

    kle4 said:

    So Matt Goodwin asked me for my prediction for Saturday's vote.

    I'm going for a government defeat that is smaller than MV3.

    All great people are predicting that.
    Every Labour MP who say they may back the deal always add a caveat to cover themselves when they don’t. Labour support will be comfortably in single figures. I expect the ERG to back the DUP too. The line they will use is the negotiation looked promising until too much was surrendered at the last minute to get it over the line. It will lose by 40+ the margin of likely defeat will grow in the coming days.

    Where does that leave us.

    what happened the last time someone outed their idea of Brexit and nailed themselves to a deal? They have power, promise, magic, Its like a big balloon being punctured, the air just slowly quietly farts out from here. Not Boris day of triumph, today is the day that haunts him, delivering brexit, winning a commons majority all gone now.
    Well, it's a view.....
    It’s a fact.

    They lose the vote. They can’t have brexit. They can’t an election. They are hungry to remain in their offices of state, they ask for an extension to put their Brexit deal to the country.

    Get on at current odds.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
    Despite having been there this week you still don't understand the dynamics of this.

    What has just happened is that the two entities on the island of Ireland have become more detached from the mainland while remaining aligned with each other.

    Read through your Conservative Party email from today. It explicitly separates the mainland from NI.
    No, my visit to NI has just reinforced my view, no border when travelling between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has kept so no incentive or need for a united Ireland. Plus Northern Ireland still stays in the UK customs area.

    In Antrim the Protestant and Unionist identity is also clear for all to see, as I witnessed posters decrying 'betrayal of the paras in favour of the IRA' in Bushmills so the conditions for UDI in Antrim are certainly there even if there ever was a vote for a united Ireland in the other counties of Northern Ireland
    LOL

    A week there and you learned nothing. But of course you didn't go to any green areas so that's not surprising. But that's ok. I'm here.

    No British PM could have overseen the return of a border in NI so Boris achieved nothing in particular. In the meantime the island's regulatory regime is aligned and is different to that of the mainland.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,146
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:



    The fact that 52% of Scots will now accept Brexit and respect the Leave vote even though a majority of them voted Remain is nonetheless a boost to Boris and a blow to the SNP

    Are you an idiot? Do you believe what you have just written or are you actively pushing misinformation.
    Someone's touchy this evening...must be a difficult poll for a Nat, I quite understand
    Why are you happy to exclude the don't knows from your poll but happy to point out they're not included in the 50% indy poll?
    As don't knows lean Leave and for the Union as the 2014 and 2016 referendums prove
    You've just had an explanation from me why that is no longer relevant.
  • Stocky said:

    Theresa Villiers, Steve Baker, Bill Cash, John Redwood - all quiet as far as I can tell. I`ll be amazed if Boris gets them all on board given that DUP are opposed.

    I doubt any of them care very much about the DUP. It’s this deal or Remain from here.

  • nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    If the commons passes it, will Nov 1st be the first day we are officially out?

    If it all goes according to plan we'll only be in for 23 hours on the 31st ;)
    On the first day of BINO, the EU gave to me.....
    Well I’m waiting to hear all the real actionable benefits that I’m about to receive on 1/11 the ones that were worth this shit fest for three years that are going to have any positive impact in my life. I can have a blue passport but is there anything else that actually means anything without resorting to ridiculous argument about sovereignty which actually is a load of bull because our voting system makes the majority of votes worthless.
    You have absolutely no right to talk about votes being worthless when you want to ignore the vote of 17.4 million people just because you lost.

    I have every right to talk about an election process that is a disgrace, I also have every right to call out a leave vote that was predicated on lies and half truths. Why should I have to accept, without question, what is being inflicted on me when there are no discernible benefits from it and will, over time, actually harm the people who voted for it. I will continue to say leaving is the worst thing the UK has ever done and is only actually getting public support because they think they have had enough. Let’s see how many of the 17.4 million can be arsed getting off the sofa for a second referendum if they think this is such a brilliant idea.
    Blah blah blah. You are just looking for excuses to ignore a democratic vote.

    And a losers revote will be boycotted by anyone who actually believes in democracy. Which of course doesn't include you.
    I hope they boycott it so the remain vote wins. I don’t actually think that gut feel votes in a stupid referendum actually reflects democracy. There are no benefits in leaving apart from those who protect their off shore investments from financially transparency regulations due in 2020.
    And there is that arrogance we have all come to know so well. The only votes that should count are the ones you agree with.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,146

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    Er,

    Soft or no border with RoI and a lot of congruence with EU: check.

    Hardish border with GB: check.

    Sounds a lot like a not very baby but actially quite grown-up step towards reunification?

    Yes, I was being ironic! Varadker has layed an absolute blinder and created a de facto single Irish economic area forever. A political union will follow soon enough. Its the direction of travel in Northern Ireland demographically and, crucially, in the former Conservative and Unionist Party.

    Sorry - that Er was aimed at HYUFD! Yes I did dpot the irony - bnut your further points are excellent ones.
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 438
    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    UK to leave the EU on or by 31 Oct is 2.8 on Betfair

    A GE in 2019 is 2.88


    Now it’s 2.56 and 2.96

    How can Leave not be fav over GE?
    It's not easy to see how the deal passes. Even if every Conservative, whipless or not, votes in favour, you need a (Steve) Baker's dozen of opposition MPs to get the deal over the line. And Saturday will be as good as it gets- the more people talk, the more they will find to dislike.notice that Johnson has conceded everything the EU wanted while apparently thinking otherwise, just as Cummings did with civil servants at the department of Education
    FTFY

    History repeating itself.

    Common factor - a rude, ignorant and not very bright man who thinks he’s a genius.

    Balding. If you really want to hurt the man, he is balding.

    Oh sorry doc I forgot
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
    Despite having been there this week you still don't understand the dynamics of this.

    What has just happened is that the two entities on the island of Ireland have become more detached from the mainland while remaining aligned with each other.

    Read through your Conservative Party email from today. It explicitly separates the mainland from NI.
    They get it just fine. They don't even bet on politics, they're just here to... Well, I don't know why they are here.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,398
    Zephyr said:

    Has Theresa Villiers said anything yet? As a Spartan and a former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, she’s likely to be influential.


    Some Spartans gone very quiet since DUP said too much given away in desperation for a deal. Yet all the Borismaniacs on here talk about is how many labour MPs on top of every Conservative.
    There are bound to be some Tory holdouts even with the potential threat of having the whip removed. There were 34 Tory holdouts last time, something like 6 or so were Grievers rather than ERG Spartans, so call it 28 or so. Get all of them and it gets you to the mid 310s, but assume 5 or so ex-Con don't back the deal and a minimum of 5 ERG holdouts and you are back around 305 as a top estimate without more Lab MPs, so best case scenario needing around 10-15.

    So so close.
  • isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)

    Don't ever change!

    Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?

    I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!

  • isamisam Posts: 40,731

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)

    Don't ever change!

    Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?

    I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!

    He just can’t win can he?!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited October 2019

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)

    Don't ever change!

    Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?

    I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!

    Yes. As @Stark_Dawning noted, if only Theresa had been so cavalier with the Union we would have been here months ago.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Well if it smells like brexit it must be a turd
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,398
    edited October 2019

    Freggles said:

    Has Theresa Villiers said anything yet? As a Spartan and a former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, she’s likely to be influential.

    Please stop using the word Spartan
    It’s a convenient identifier that the relevant group does not find abusive.
    Whilst still be funny that they think of themselves in such terms, which makes it a win win for everyone.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    If the commons passes it, will Nov 1st be the first day we are officially out?

    If it all goes according to plan we'll only be in for 23 hours on the 31st ;)
    On the first day of BINO, the EU gave to me.....
    Well I’m waiting to hear all the real actionable benefits that I’m about to receive on 1/11 the ones that were worth this shit fest for three years that are going to have any positive impact in my life. I can have a blue passport but is there anything else that actually means anything without resorting to ridiculous argument about sovereignty which actually is a load of bull because our voting system makes the majority of votes worthless.
    You have absolutely no right to talk about votes being worthless when you want to ignore the vote of 17.4 million people just because you lost.

    I have every right to talk about an election process that is a disgrace, I also have every right to call out a leave vote that was predicated on lies and half truths. Why should I have to accept, without question, what is being inflicted on me when there are no discernible benefits from it and will, over time, actually harm the people who voted for it. I will continue to say leaving is the worst thing the UK has ever done and is only actually getting public support because they think they have had enough. Let’s see how many of the 17.4 million can be arsed getting off the sofa for a second referendum if they think this is such a brilliant idea.
    Blah blah blah. You are just looking for excuses to ignore a democratic vote.

    And a losers revote will be boycotted by anyone who actually believes in democracy. Which of course doesn't include you.
    I hope they boycott it so the remain vote wins. I don’t actually think that gut feel votes in a stupid referendum actually reflects democracy. There are no benefits in leaving apart from those who protect their off shore investments from financially transparency regulations due in 2020.
    And there is that arrogance we have all come to know so well. The only votes that should count are the ones you agree with.
    Haha. The irony of that coming from a Brexiteer is something to behold.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
    Despite having been there this week you still don't understand the dynamics of this.

    What has just happened is that the two entities on the island of Ireland have become more detached from the mainland while remaining aligned with each other.

    Read through your Conservative Party email from today. It explicitly separates the mainland from NI.
    No, my visit to NI has just reinforced my view, no border when travelling between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has kept so no incentive or need for a united Ireland. Plus Northern Ireland still stays in the UK customs area.

    In Antrim the Protestant and Unionist identity is also clear for all to see, as I witnessed posters decrying 'betrayal of the paras in favour of the IRA' in Bushmills so the conditions for UDI in Antrim are certainly there even if there ever was a vote for a united Ireland in the other counties of Northern Ireland
    LOL

    A week there and you learned nothing. But of course you didn't go to any green areas so that's not surprising. But that's ok. I'm here.

    No British PM could have overseen the return of a border in NI so Boris achieved nothing in particular. In the meantime the island's regulatory regime is aligned and is different to that of the mainland.
    There is a border though. If the Republic built a shed without permission north of it or vice versa it'd soon be removed. Almost all parties want a very well defined border, unless, for some, there's none at all.

    Being in the EU has allowed an apparent fiction of there not being a border.

    There actually being no border would be better - that would require Ireland eating up NI, or the UK eating up Ireland, or something bigger eating us both up.

    The something bigger will probably come some day. It's just not the EU.
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 438

    Stocky said:

    Theresa Villiers, Steve Baker, Bill Cash, John Redwood - all quiet as far as I can tell. I`ll be amazed if Boris gets them all on board given that DUP are opposed.

    I doubt any of them care very much about the DUP. It’s this deal or Remain from here.

    No. Some of them are made of different stuff. Just as DUP can see also articulate what is wrong so can they.

    Er, don’t know if this good example but I will go with it anyway. Think of Ireland. Think of Collins. Think of the settlement. A complicated political situation where one side says sell out, others like the trappings of power they got. So they split. But really in their nature split all along.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    What happens if it`s a tie?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    isam said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)

    Don't ever change!

    Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?

    I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!

    He just can’t win can he?!
    He has agreed a deal. Well done him. He has done so by doing something not only that the Conservative Party believed no British PM could ever do but also that they disliked so much that they specifically legislated against it.

    It is reasonable to marvel at such audacity
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Andrew said:
    If its genuinely that close now it's a slam dunk
  • Andrew said:
    Let’s be honest, it’s been that sort of a process. It would fit the script so far.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,723
    nichomar said:

    Well if it smells like brexit it must be a turd
    Andrew said:
    Passes by 13 no chance

    Falls by 13 looks a lot more likely

    Passes by 1 would be plenty
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,398
    Stocky said:

    What happens if it`s a tie?

    Bercow votes no, in line with precedent that such a major decision should only be made by a genuine majority.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,005
    Part of the problem with this is the totally unrepresentative nature of Northern Ireland's contribution to the House of Commons. The DUP had 36% of the vote and have 91% of the MPs!

    We all know the reason for this but it is crazy that we keep considering NI politics in terms of the DUP. It would be absurd to call this a betrayal of Northern Ireland if it is what most people in the province want. My main concern is the lack of consultation - and private conversations with 10 MPs doesn't cut it.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    If the commons passes it, will Nov 1st be the first day we are officially out?

    If it all goes according to plan we'll only be in for 23 hours on the 31st ;)
    On the first day of BINO, the EU gave to me.....
    Well I’m waiting to hear all the real actionable benefits that I’m about to receive on 1/11 the ones that were worth this shit fest for three years that are going to have any positive impact in my life. I can have a blue passport but is there anything else that actually means anything without resorting to ridiculous argument about sovereignty which actually is a load of bull because our voting system makes the majority of votes worthless.
    You have absolutely no right to talk about votes being worthless when you want to ignore the vote of 17.4 million people just because you lost.

    I have every right to talk about an election process that is a disgrace, I also have every right to call out a leave vote that was predicated on lies and half truths. Why should I have to accept, without question, what is being inflicted on me when there are no discernible benefits from it and will, over time, actually harm the people who voted for it. I will continue to say leaving is the worst thing the UK has ever done and is only actually getting public support because they think they have had enough. Let’s see how many of the 17.4 million can be arsed getting off the sofa for a second referendum if they think this is such a brilliant idea.
    Blah blah blah. You are just looking for excuses to ignore a democratic vote.

    And a losers revote will be boycotted by anyone who actually believes in democracy. Which of course doesn't include you.
    I hope they boycott it so the remain vote wins. I don’t actually think that gut feel votes in a stupid referendum actually reflects democracy. There are no benefits in leaving apart from those who protect their off shore investments from financially transparency regulations due in 2020.
    And there is that arrogance we have all come to know so well. The only votes that should count are the ones you agree with.
    You have done nothing to make this easier, I was promised EEA/EFTA by my tory MPMarcus Fysh before the referendum and now he is ERG why should I have any respect for any of the leavers now?
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 438
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
    Despite having been there this week you still don't understand the dynamics of this.

    What has just happened is that the two entities on the island of Ireland have become more detached from the mainland while remaining aligned with each other.

    Read through your Conservative Party email from today. It explicitly separates the mainland from NI.
    No, my visit to NI has just reinforced my view, no border when travelling between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has kept so no incentive or need for a united Ireland. Plus Northern Ireland still stays in the UK customs area.

    In Antrim the Protestant and Unionist identity is also clear for all to see, as I witnessed posters decrying 'betrayal of the paras in favour of the IRA' in Bushmills so the conditions for UDI in Antrim are certainly there even if there ever was a vote for a united Ireland in the other counties of Northern Ireland
    Take a backstop we can’t get out of. Turn it into a backstop we need the IRA’s permission to get out of

    Roman salute negotiating triumph
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,398
    Andrew said:
    Rather depends how many are 'unknown or unclear' but their records are such it is leaning more no than yes. Does it include those who repeatedly say they might then vote no, and who just haven't spoken yet?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Omnium said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
    Despite having been there this week you still don't understand the dynamics of this.

    What has just happened is that the two entities on the island of Ireland have become more detached from the mainland while remaining aligned with each other.

    Read through your Conservative Party email from today. It explicitly separates the mainland from NI.
    No, my visit to NI has just reinforced my view, no border when travelling between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has kept so no incentive or need for a united Ireland. Plus Northern Ireland still stays in the UK customs area.

    In Antrim the Protestant and Unionist identity is also clear for all to see, as I witnessed posters decrying 'betrayal of the paras in favour of the IRA' in Bushmills so the conditions for UDI in Antrim are certainly there even if there ever was a vote for a united Ireland in the other counties of Northern Ireland
    LOL

    A week there and you learned nothing. But of course you didn't go to any green areas so that's not surprising. But that's ok. I'm here.

    No British PM could have overseen the return of a border in NI so Boris achieved nothing in particular. In the meantime the island's regulatory regime is aligned and is different to that of the mainland.
    There is a border though. If the Republic built a shed without permission north of it or vice versa it'd soon be removed. Almost all parties want a very well defined border, unless, for some, there's none at all.

    Being in the EU has allowed an apparent fiction of there not being a border.

    There actually being no border would be better - that would require Ireland eating up NI, or the UK eating up Ireland, or something bigger eating us both up.

    The something bigger will probably come some day. It's just not the EU.
    I prefer an existential phenomenological approach to this. It may have been a fiction but it worked. Let's not try to get under the bonnet.
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)

    Don't ever change!

    Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?

    I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!

    He just can’t win can he?!

    He has won, hasn’t he?

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    kle4 said:

    Stocky said:

    What happens if it`s a tie?

    Bercow votes no, in line with precedent that such a major decision should only be made by a genuine majority.
    But I’m not sure that would apply here, because whatever option Parliament votes for the status quo will not be one of them. That could only be Revoke and that wouldn’t be part of the motion.

    But my guess is this will fall by around twenty votes.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    isam said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)

    Don't ever change!

    Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?

    I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!

    He just can’t win can he?!

    He has won, hasn’t he?

    That's the great unknown. I don't believe Boris is that lucky so I suspect there are a few more issues still to come.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited October 2019


    If its genuinely that close now it's a slam dunk

    I'd think so, at least in a MV6. My guess is if they get over 310 on Sat they'll flip a few with some old-fashioned pork, and the rest with alterations to the PD.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    Interesting documentary on the Channel Tunnel on BBC2 now.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    kle4 said:

    Stocky said:

    What happens if it`s a tie?

    Bercow votes no, in line with precedent that such a major decision should only be made by a genuine majority.
    That would be my understanding but obviously on here he will be the devil incarnate turning precedent on its head because he doesn’t do what they want, welcome to the new warmer all inclusive UK that this deal now heralds
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688
    TOPPING said:

    Omnium said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
    Despite having been there this week you still don't understand the dynamics of this.

    What has just happened is that the two entities on the island of Ireland have become more detached from the mainland while remaining aligned with each other.

    Read through your Conservative Party email from today. It explicitly separates the mainland from NI.
    No, my visit to NI has just reinforced my view, no border when travelling between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has kept so no incentive or need for a united Ireland. Plus Northern Ireland still stays in the UK customs area.

    In Antrim the Protestant and Unionist identity is also clear for all to see, as I witnessed posters decrying 'betrayal of the paras in favour of the IRA' in Bushmills so the conditions for UDI in Antrim are certainly there even if there ever was a vote for a united Ireland in the other counties of Northern Ireland
    LOL

    A week there and you learned nothing. But of course you didn't go to any green areas so that's not surprising. But that's ok. I'm here.

    No British PM could have overseen the return of a border in NI so Boris achieved nothing in particular. In the meantime the island's regulatory regime is aligned and is different to that of the mainland.
    There is a border though. If the Republic built a shed without permission north of it or vice versa it'd soon be removed. Almost all parties want a very well defined border, unless, for some, there's none at all.

    Being in the EU has allowed an apparent fiction of there not being a border.

    There actually being no border would be better - that would require Ireland eating up NI, or the UK eating up Ireland, or something bigger eating us both up.

    The something bigger will probably come some day. It's just not the EU.
    I prefer an existential phenomenological approach to this. It may have been a fiction but it worked. Let's not try to get under the bonnet.
    Sounds wise. The word 'practical' springs to mind as one you may have used though :) (existential phenomenological!!)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Her constituency voted Remain anyway, 2/3 of MPs have Leave voting seats
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    I *insert party position here* this deal because *talking points here*
    And yes, vicky versa
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,398
    HYUFD said:

    Her constituency voted Remain anyway, 2/3 of MPs have Leave voting seats
    You have said before a Tory majority would be needed to pass a deal - do you still think that is the case, or do you think it will pass, and if so how many Lab votes will it take?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Omnium said:

    TOPPING said:

    Omnium said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
    Despite having been there this week you still don't understand the dynamics of this.

    What has just happened is that the two entities on the island of Ireland have become more detached from the mainland while remaining aligned with each other.

    Read through your Conservative Party email from today. It explicitly separates the mainland from NI.
    No, my visit to NI has just reinforced my view, no border when travelling between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has kept so no incentive or need for a united Ireland. Plus Northern Ireland still stays in the UK customs area.

    In Antrim the Protestant and Unionist identity is also clear for all to see, as I witnessed posters decrying 'betrayal of the paras in favour of the IRA' in Bushmills so the conditions for UDI in Antrim are certainly there even if there ever was a vote for a united Ireland in the other counties of Northern Ireland
    LOL

    A week there and you learned nothing. But of course you didn't go to any green areas so that's not surprising. But that's ok. I'm here.

    No British PM could have overseen the return of a border in NI so Boris achieved nothing in particular. In the meantime the island's regulatory regime is aligned and is different to that of the mainland.
    There is a border though. If the Republic built a shed without permission north of it or vice versa it'd soon be removed. Almost all parties want a very well defined border, unless, for some, there's none at all.

    Being in the EU has allowed an apparent fiction of there not being a border.

    There actually being no border would be better - that would require Ireland eating up NI, or the UK eating up Ireland, or something bigger eating us both up.

    The something bigger will probably come some day. It's just not the EU.
    I prefer an existential phenomenological approach to this. It may have been a fiction but it worked. Let's not try to get under the bonnet.
    Sounds wise. The word 'practical' springs to mind as one you may have used though :) (existential phenomenological!!)
    That also works.
  • kle4 said:

    Andrew said:
    Rather depends how many are 'unknown or unclear' but their records are such it is leaning more no than yes. Does it include those who repeatedly say they might then vote no, and who just haven't spoken yet?
    It feels like it is really going to happen this time. The ERG may grumble but looks like most of them will back it and enough of the LAB leave seat MPs will back it or abstain.

    The reality is that for all Lab say they oppose the deal, really it is in their best interests to see it passed with a few rebels. An election is coming soon - if it is an election all about Brexit then Lab risk being squeezed on both sides, losing remainers to the LDs and leavers to Con or Brexit.

    If Brexit happens, then the Brexit party will fade away, while the LDs will probably fall back a bit. And more importantly the election will then be about public spending, which is much surer ground for Corbyn.
  • eek said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)

    Don't ever change!

    Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?

    I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!

    He just can’t win can he?!

    He has won, hasn’t he?

    That's the great unknown. I don't believe Boris is that lucky so I suspect there are a few more issues still to come.

    But he still wins. We extend and he storms the GE. He’s played it very well.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited October 2019
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    Er,

    Soft or no border with RoI and a lot of congruence with EU: check.

    Hardish border with GB: check.

    Sounds a lot like a not very baby but actially quite grown-up step towards reunification?

    Yes, I was being ironic! Varadker has layed an absolute blinder and created a de facto single Irish economic area forever. A political union will follow soon enough. Its the direction of travel in Northern Ireland demographically and, crucially, in the former Conservative and Unionist Party.

    Nope, a hard border was the best chance for Irish unity, Boris has avoided that and Northern Ireland will still stay in the same Customs area as GB
    No. A hard border might have reignited the Troubles although such an idea is moot as no PM could have overseen one.

    Meanwhile to align NI and the RoI while detaching them, together, regulatorily from the mainland is encouraging unification.

    I am not hugely surprised that you can't see this but I am happy to keep pointing it out to you.
    NI and the RoI are already aligned in terms of a border, there was no difference driving between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland for me this week than when I drive between Essex and Kent, no border or checks at all.

    A hard border would however have guaranteed a majority of Northern Ireland voters backed formal political Irish unity not just the largely economic unity it has now
  • I find this line that it weakens a these worker and environmental rights...but that is only if our parliament decides to change them and brexit has shown our parliament has become very good at saying no to change
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 438

    eek said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)

    Don't ever change!

    Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?

    I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!

    He just can’t win can he?!

    He has won, hasn’t he?

    That's the great unknown. I don't believe Boris is that lucky so I suspect there are a few more issues still to come.

    But he still wins. We extend and he storms the GE. He’s played it very well.

    How does he get the GE? The only two options for Boris if he loses vote. Resign. Or ask EU for extension to put his deal to the country. Get on this at the current price.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    edited October 2019

    isam said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)

    Don't ever change!

    Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?

    I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!

    He just can’t win can he?!

    He has won, hasn’t he?

    I mean with you! You’ve been saying for months that, of course, Johnson, after not winning the leadership after his violent argument with his girlfriend, and through the prism of everything he does in life being viewed by what a terrible person he is, is leading us, of course, to no deal, and all the terrible Tory things that go with it.

    So he gets a deal, and those forecasts are down the memory hole with hands not held up as a new crime is committed!! 🤣
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    Stocky said:

    What happens if it`s a tie?

    Speaker's casting vote...
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    I think the key players are Labour MPs like Lisa Nandy . If she says yes then I think the deal is likely to go through as that suggests there would be a decent amount of MPs willing to do the same .
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,398
    edited October 2019
    nico67 said:

    I think the key players are Labour MPs like Lisa Nandy . If she says yes then I think the deal is likely to go through as that suggests there would be a decent amount of MPs willing to do the same .

    Well that's sunk it then! No-Yes-No Nandy?

    Still, Boris has proven me wrong by getting a deal, perhaps she can surprise me too.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,545
    eek said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)

    Don't ever change!

    Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?

    I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!

    He just can’t win can he?!

    He has won, hasn’t he?

    That's the great unknown. I don't believe Boris is that lucky so I suspect there are a few more issues still to come.
    A willingness to sell your grandmother is a useful attribute sometimes, which May never possessed.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited October 2019
    Seems like junker had had one too many at lunch...

    EU leaves door open to Brexit extension, in blow to Boris Johnson

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/17/boris-johnson-and-eu-reach-brexit-deal-without-dup-backing
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    Zephyr said:

    eek said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)

    Don't ever change!

    Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?

    I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!

    He just can’t win can he?!

    He has won, hasn’t he?

    That's the great unknown. I don't believe Boris is that lucky so I suspect there are a few more issues still to come.

    But he still wins. We extend and he storms the GE. He’s played it very well.

    How does he get the GE? The only two options for Boris if he loses vote. Resign. Or ask EU for extension to put his deal to the country. Get on this at the current price.
    FTPA gets amended by a simple majority to allow the election. LibDems, SNP up for it....just Labour that is shit scared.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,398

    Seems like junker had had one to many at lunch...

    EU leaves door open to Brexit extension, in blow to Boris Johnson

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/17/boris-johnson-and-eu-reach-brexit-deal-without-dup-backing

    It did feel a bit too decisive to be true.
  • nichomar said:



    You have done nothing to make this easier, I was promised EEA/EFTA by my tory MPMarcus Fysh before the referendum and now he is ERG why should I have any respect for any of the leavers now?

    I have done everything I can to make it easier. I supported an EFTA deal since long before anyone ever dreamed of a referendum and have not moved from that wish at all since then. But we don't always get everything we want and unlike you I have been willing to compromise. I will take any deal that gets us out of the EU. But I also said on here many times before the vote that if we lost I would accept that. Unfortunately you are not enough of an adult to do the same.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    Andrew said:
    Speaker Bercow gets the casting vote... And votes for Brexit! :D
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    eek said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)

    Don't ever change!

    Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?

    I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!

    He just can’t win can he?!

    He has won, hasn’t he?

    That's the great unknown. I don't believe Boris is that lucky so I suspect there are a few more issues still to come.

    But he still wins. We extend and he storms the GE. He’s played it very well.

    Yes, they still need to be held to account for the lies they tell and the artificial future they suggest. The really interesting thing which seems to be being missed is how tired and sadCorbyn sounds, I’m not sure where he now goes but there is a clear path, once we get over the emotional impact of leaving, for the lib dems to fight for as close a relationship as possible
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 438
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)

    Don't ever change!

    Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?

    I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!

    He just can’t win can he?!

    He has won, hasn’t he?

    I mean with you! You’ve been saying for months that, of course, Johnson, after not winning the leadership after his violent argument with his girlfriend, and through the prism of everything he does in life being viewed by what a terrible person he is, is leading us, of course, to no deal, and all the terrible Tory things that go with it.

    So he gets a deal, and those forecasts are down the memory hole with hands not held up as a new crime is committed!! 🤣
    Can you not see the ground-breaking change from yesterday? Boris has now nailed himself to this deal. He had it all in his grasp until he revealed his hand. He’s finished. Brexit almost finished.

    EU opened WA and changed it when they had a vain and panicking UK government surrendering. They opened it changed it to add the surrenders, esp the line British Prime minister must pick up the DUP and throw them under a bus.

    This deal the EU will junk the moment another government offers all U.K. in the EU CU.

    Any idea that Boris is a winner is complete fantasy.
  • nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    If the commons passes it, will Nov 1st be the first day we are officially out?

    If it all goes according to plan we'll only be in for 23 hours on the 31st ;)
    On the first day of BINO, the EU gave to me.....
    Well I’m waiting to hear all the real actionable benefits that I’m about to receive on 1/11 the ones that were worth this shit fest for three years that are going to have any positive impact in my life. I can have a blue passport but is there anything else that actually means anything without resorting to ridiculous argument about sovereignty which actually is a load of bull because our voting system makes the majority of votes worthless.
    You have absolutely no right to talk about votes being worthless when you want to ignore the vote of 17.4 million people just because you lost.

    I have every right to talk about an election process that is a disgrace, I also have every right to call out a leave vote that was predicated on lies and half truths. Why should I have to accept, without question, what is being inflicted on me when there are no discernible benefits from it and will, over time, actually harm the people who voted for it. I will continue to say leaving is the worst thing the UK has ever done and is only actually getting public support because they think they have had enough. Let’s see how many of the 17.4 million can be arsed getting off the sofa for a second referendum if they think this is such a brilliant idea.
    Blah blah blah. You are just looking for excuses to ignore a democratic vote.

    And a losers revote will be boycotted by anyone who actually believes in democracy. Which of course doesn't include you.
    I hope they boycott it so the remain vote wins. I don’t actually think that gut feel votes in a stupid referendum actually reflects democracy. There are no benefits in leaving apart from those who protect their off shore investments from financially transparency regulations due in 2020.
    And there is that arrogance we have all come to know so well. The only votes that should count are the ones you agree with.
    Haha. The irony of that coming from a Brexiteer is something to behold.
    Only because you are too dumb to understand.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    rcs1000 said:

    Stocky said:

    What happens if it`s a tie?

    Speaker's casting vote...
    Which should be for the status quo. Which would be for a state where the deal is not adopted.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    Er,

    Soft or no border with RoI and a lot of congruence with EU: check.

    Hardish border with GB: check.

    Sounds a lot like a not very baby but actially quite grown-up step towards reunification?

    Yes, I was being ironic! Varadker has layed an absolute blinder and created a de facto single Irish economic area forever. A political union will follow soon enough. Its the direction of travel in Northern Ireland demographically and, crucially, in the former Conservative and Unionist Party.

    Nope, a hard border was the best chance for Irish unity, Boris has avoided that and Northern Ireland will still stay in the same Customs area as GB
    No. A hard border might have reignited the Troubles although such an idea is moot as no PM could have overseen one.

    Meanwhile to align NI and the RoI while detaching them, together, regulatorily from the mainland is encouraging unification.

    I am not hugely surprised that you can't see this but I am happy to keep pointing it out to you.
    NI and the RoI are already aligned in terms of a border, there was no difference driving between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland for me this week than when I drive between Essex and Kent, no border or checks at all.

    A hard border would however have guaranteed a majority of Northern Ireland voters backed formal political Irish unity not just the largely economic unity it has now
    The deal has just explicitly separated NI and RoI regulatorily from Great Britain. The email that you and I received today made an explicit separation between the mainland and Northern Ireland. Holistically the island of Ireland is more aligned.

    That is a nationalist's wet dream.

    I know you have just been there but you weren't in the right places asking the right people the right questions to gain an understanding of the issue. But the North Antrim coast I agree is a fantastic place. Bushmills is also a great place to visit.
  • nico67 said:

    I think the key players are Labour MPs like Lisa Nandy . If she says yes then I think the deal is likely to go through as that suggests there would be a decent amount of MPs willing to do the same .

    I cannot see Nandy voting for it. She still has a future.

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    isam said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)

    Don't ever change!

    Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?

    I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!

    He just can’t win can he?!
    When people considered the kind of deal he could potentially bring back "Border down the Irish Sea" which he had previously labelled as unacceptable was not high on the list.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    Seems like junker had had one too many at lunch...

    EU leaves door open to Brexit extension, in blow to Boris Johnson

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/17/boris-johnson-and-eu-reach-brexit-deal-without-dup-backing

    No it does not say that at all, it reports one minor EU official when the Head of the Commission has said otherwise.

    We know anyway France will veto further extension without a change such as EUref2 or a GE if the Commons again rejects a Brexit Deal

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-article-50-extend-macron-merkel-theresa-may-france-germany-eu-talks-a8799506.html
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059

    isam said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)

    Don't ever change!

    Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?

    I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!

    He just can’t win can he?!

    He has won, hasn’t he?

    There have been so many sugar rushes for both sides of this debate these last three years that I have no expectation of this one lasting.

    On a more philosophical note, I am working my way through a list of 100 books David Bowie recommended as part of an exhibition shortly before he died. I had never attempted Dante before and, was as a result, was reminded/educated about the bloody schism between the Guelphs and Ghibellines in late medieval Italy. That conflict, simplistically between supporters of the temporal power of the Papacy and that of the Holy Roman Emperor (and which was the back story to Romeo and Juliet in Verona) was as bitter as our current division, if not more. But who gives a monkeys now? Which side ultimately “won”? The equivalent day will come between Leavers and Remainers, probably sooner than we think.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Zephyr said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)

    Don't ever change!

    Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?

    I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!

    He just can’t win can he?!

    He has won, hasn’t he?

    I mean with you! You’ve been saying for months that, of course, Johnson, after not winning the leadership after his violent argument with his girlfriend, and through the prism of everything he does in life being viewed by what a terrible person he is, is leading us, of course, to no deal, and all the terrible Tory things that go with it.

    So he gets a deal, and those forecasts are down the memory hole with hands not held up as a new crime is committed!! 🤣
    Can you not see the ground-breaking change from yesterday? Boris has now nailed himself to this deal. He had it all in his grasp until he revealed his hand. He’s finished. Brexit almost finished.

    EU opened WA and changed it when they had a vain and panicking UK government surrendering. They opened it changed it to add the surrenders, esp the line British Prime minister must pick up the DUP and throw them under a bus.

    This deal the EU will junk the moment another government offers all U.K. in the EU CU.

    Any idea that Boris is a winner is complete fantasy.
    Well it’s a view
  • I find this line that it weakens a these worker and environmental rights...but that is only if our parliament decides to change them and brexit has shown our parliament has become very good at saying no to change
    Interesting this MP comes up with arguments having read the deal 41 minutes ago.... yet in her timeline she'd retweeted magic grandpa saying the exact same things 8 hours ago but tweaking the wording...

    https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1184778593412538370?s=20
  • Zephyr said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!

    Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland

    And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!

    I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)

    Don't ever change!

    Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?

    I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!

    He just can’t win can he?!

    He has won, hasn’t he?

    I mean with you! You’ve been saying for months that, of course, Johnson, after not winning the leadership after his violent argument with his girlfriend, and through the prism of everything he does in life being viewed by what a terrible person he is, is leading us, of course, to no deal, and all the terrible Tory things that go with it.

    So he gets a deal, and those forecasts are down the memory hole with hands not held up as a new crime is committed!! 🤣
    Can you not see the ground-breaking change from yesterday? Boris has now nailed himself to this deal. He had it all in his grasp until he revealed his hand. He’s finished. Brexit almost finished.

    EU opened WA and changed it when they had a vain and panicking UK government surrendering. They opened it changed it to add the surrenders, esp the line British Prime minister must pick up the DUP and throw them under a bus.

    This deal the EU will junk the moment another government offers all U.K. in the EU CU.

    Any idea that Boris is a winner is complete fantasy.
    Lets see what the voters think shall we
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,398
    edited October 2019
    Andrew said:
    Hmm, only 3 Independent Conservatives against? No hardliners against? Only 7 Lab MPs to get within 2 of victory?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Her constituency voted Remain anyway, 2/3 of MPs have Leave voting seats
    You have said before a Tory majority would be needed to pass a deal - do you still think that is the case, or do you think it will pass, and if so how many Lab votes will it take?
    It would take 20 to 30 Labour MPs which is possible if the alternative is No Deal but not if the alternative is extension.

    In the unlikely event the EU agreed further extension and France does not veto then of course we are into all out war from next week with the diehard Remainers with Boris sabotaging extension at every turn with full support from Tories and Leavers
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited October 2019
    Andrew said:
    Omara wont attend so one for the tie
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688
    GIN1138 said:

    Andrew said:
    Speaker Bercow gets the casting vote... And votes for Brexit! :D
    I think he might.

    My first thought when I read the below was that he wouldn't in a million years. However if he didn't then he's allowing quite irregular legislation to come into play. The status quo is no-deal. He clearly doesn't want that. A deal is closer to the status quo than all the irregular legislation.

    Does he have to choose? I presume he can abstain? What happens then?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:



    If it all goes according to plan we'll only be in for 23 hours on the 31st ;)

    On the first day of BINO, the EU gave to me.....
    Well I’m waiting to hear all the real actionable benefits that I’m about to receive on 1/11 the ones that were worth this shit fest for three years that are going to have any positive impact in my life. I can have a blue passport but is there anything else that actually means anything without resorting to ridiculous argument about sovereignty which actually is a load of bull because our voting system makes the majority of votes worthless.
    You have absolutely no right to talk about votes being worthless when you want to ignore the vote of 17.4 million people just because you lost.

    I have every right to talk about an election process that is a disgrace, I also have every right to call out a leave vote that was predicated on lies and half truths. Why should I have to accept, without question, what is being inflicted on me when there are no discernible benefits from it and will, over time, actually harm the people who voted for it. I will continue to say leaving is the worst thing the UK has ever done and is only actually getting public support because they think they have had enough. Let’s see how many of the 17.4 million can be arsed getting off the sofa for a second referendum if they think this is such a brilliant idea.
    Blah blah blah. You are just looking for excuses to ignore a democratic vote.

    And a losers revote will be boycotted by anyone who actually believes in democracy. Which of course doesn't include you.
    I hope they boycott it so the remain vote wins. I don’t actually think that gut feel votes in a stupid referendum actually reflects democracy. There are no benefits in leaving apart from those who protect their off shore investments from financially transparency regulations due in 2020.
    And there is that arrogance we have all come to know so well. The only votes that should count are the ones you agree with.
    Haha. The irony of that coming from a Brexiteer is something to behold.
    Only because you are too dumb to understand.
    Stop insulting people’s intelligence so frequently. People can have different interpretations of the same facts. You and I are on differing sides of this debate but both would have supported EEA/EFTA membership.
This discussion has been closed.