The fact that 52% of Scots will now accept Brexit and respect the Leave vote even though a majority of them voted Remain is nonetheless a boost to Boris and a blow to the SNP
Are you an idiot? Do you believe what you have just written or are you actively pushing misinformation.
Someone's touchy this evening...must be a difficult poll for a Nat, I quite understand
Why are you happy to exclude the don't knows from your poll but happy to point out they're not included in the 50% indy poll?
Theresa Villiers, Steve Baker, Bill Cash, John Redwood - all quiet as far as I can tell. I`ll be amazed if Boris gets them all on board given that DUP are opposed.
Because of the strong possibility of a VONC then GE
Nope. No sorry.
Which betting market to place our money on? I think today settles it. It’s now obvious what happens first, the psychology of the situation, the vanity versus their options once this deal loses in commons, election nor Brexit an option to them, those options really not there yet their vanity their cause to exist very strong, therefore something justifies the extension,
When Dublin whispered sweet things to him in the love garden he should have been wise to reject I had my doubts about his judgment. When he picked the DUP up and threw them under a bus I am convinced there’s far too much putting self interest before everything else. Put all your money on a second/confirmatory ref before anything else happens. No Brexit no election before Boris deal v remain goes to the country. That’s what I’m doing.
UK to leave the EU on or by 31 Oct is 2.8 on Betfair
A GE in 2019 is 2.88
Now it’s 2.56 and 2.96
How can Leave not be fav over GE?
It's not easy to see how the deal passes. Even if every Conservative, whipless or not, votes in favour, you need a (Steve) Baker's dozen of opposition MPs to get the deal over the line. And Saturday will be as good as it gets- the more people talk, the more they will find to dislike.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
Er,
Soft or no border with RoI and a lot of congruence with EU: check.
Hardish border with GB: check.
Sounds a lot like a not very baby but actially quite grown-up step towards reunification?
Yes, I was being ironic! Varadker has layed an absolute blinder and created a de facto single Irish economic area forever. A political union will follow soon enough. Its the direction of travel in Northern Ireland demographically and, crucially, in the former Conservative and Unionist Party.
Nope, a hard border was the best chance for Irish unity, Boris has avoided that and Northern Ireland will still stay in the same Customs area as GB
UK to leave the EU on or by 31 Oct is 2.8 on Betfair
A GE in 2019 is 2.88
Now it’s 2.56 and 2.96
How can Leave not be fav over GE?
It's not easy to see how the deal passes. Even if every Conservative, whipless or not, votes in favour, you need a (Steve) Baker's dozen of opposition MPs to get the deal over the line. And Saturday will be as good as it gets- the more people talk, the more they will find to dislike.notice that Johnson has conceded everything the EU wanted while apparently thinking otherwise, just as Cummings did with civil servants at the department of Education
FTFY
History repeating itself.
Common factor - a rude, ignorant and not very bright man who thinks he’s a genius.
Has Theresa Villiers said anything yet? As a Spartan and a former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, she’s likely to be influential.
Some Spartans gone very quiet since DUP said too much given away in desperation for a deal. Yet all the Borismaniacs on here talk about is how many labour MPs on top of every Conservative.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
Despite having been there this week you still don't understand the dynamics of this.
What has just happened is that the two entities on the island of Ireland have become more detached from the mainland while remaining aligned with each other.
Read through your Conservative Party email from today. It explicitly separates the mainland from NI.
No, my visit to NI has just reinforced my view, no border when travelling between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has kept so no incentive or need for a united Ireland. Plus Northern Ireland still stays in the UK customs area.
In Antrim the Protestant and Unionist identity is also clear for all to see, as I witnessed posters decrying 'betrayal of the paras in favour of the IRA' in Bushmills so the conditions for UDI in Antrim are certainly there even if there ever was a vote for a united Ireland in the other counties of Northern Ireland
UK to leave the EU on or by 31 Oct is 2.8 on Betfair
A GE in 2019 is 2.88
Now it’s 2.56 and 2.96
How can Leave not be fav over GE?
It's not easy to see how the deal passes. Even if every Conservative, whipless or not, votes in favour, you need a (Steve) Baker's dozen of opposition MPs to get the deal over the line. And Saturday will be as good as it gets- the more people talk, the more they will find to dislike.
So lay the deal passing at 13/8?
I asked earlier, I’m curious to know how long you’ve lived in Romford and what you think of it? I have lived in Hornchurch or Upminster most of my life, and Romford is a no go area now, having been the place we all went 20 years ago
Has Theresa Villiers said anything yet? As a Spartan and a former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, she’s likely to be influential.
Some Spartans gone very quiet since DUP said too much given away in desperation for a deal. Yet all the Borismaniacs on here talk about is how many labour MPs on top of every Conservative.
Laura Pidcock, who has never even kissed a Tory, will not be too thrilled at the idea of this, even if the Labour MPs are at least on top!
The fact that 52% of Scots will now accept Brexit and respect the Leave vote even though a majority of them voted Remain is nonetheless a boost to Boris and a blow to the SNP
Are you an idiot? Do you believe what you have just written or are you actively pushing misinformation.
Someone's touchy this evening...must be a difficult poll for a Nat, I quite understand
Why are you happy to exclude the don't knows from your poll but happy to point out they're not included in the 50% indy poll?
As don't knows lean Leave and for the Union as the 2014 and 2016 referendums prove
If the commons passes it, will Nov 1st be the first day we are officially out?
If it all goes according to plan we'll only be in for 23 hours on the 31st
On the first day of BINO, the EU gave to me.....
Well I’m waiting to hear all the real actionable benefits that I’m about to receive on 1/11 the ones that were worth this shit fest for three years that are going to have any positive impact in my life. I can have a blue passport but is there anything else that actually means anything without resorting to ridiculous argument about sovereignty which actually is a load of bull because our voting system makes the majority of votes worthless.
You have absolutely no right to talk about votes being worthless when you want to ignore the vote of 17.4 million people just because you lost.
I have every right to talk about an election process that is a disgrace, I also have every right to call out a leave vote that was predicated on lies and half truths. Why should I have to accept, without question, what is being inflicted on me when there are no discernible benefits from it and will, over time, actually harm the people who voted for it. I will continue to say leaving is the worst thing the UK has ever done and is only actually getting public support because they think they have had enough. Let’s see how many of the 17.4 million can be arsed getting off the sofa for a second referendum if they think this is such a brilliant idea.
Blah blah blah. You are just looking for excuses to ignore a democratic vote.
And a losers revote will be boycotted by anyone who actually believes in democracy. Which of course doesn't include you.
I hope they boycott it so the remain vote wins. I don’t actually think that gut feel votes in a stupid referendum actually reflects democracy. There are no benefits in leaving apart from those who protect their off shore investments from financially transparency regulations due in 2020.
The May deal was “better” if your target is a very close, EEA type end state and you think the U.K. being in a customs union with the EU is tolerable, or even desirable (In the way the actual EEA does not).
The Boris deal is better if you think you’ll have the numbers in Parliament for a simpler free trade deal when the crunch comes (post election), AND you don’t mind really going for no deal in a year or two if the EU cuts up rough over fishing or agriculture (though the NI arrangement would make that pretty painful for them).
As ever, neither side gets the fact that some people really do think no deal is terrifying; and some of us really do think there’s nothing to fear long term if we had to.
So Matt Goodwin asked me for my prediction for Saturday's vote.
I'm going for a government defeat that is smaller than MV3.
All great people are predicting that.
Every Labour MP who say they may back the deal always add a caveat to cover themselves when they don’t. Labour support will be comfortably in single figures. I expect the ERG to back the DUP too. The line they will use is the negotiation looked promising until too much was surrendered at the last minute to get it over the line. It will lose by 40+ the margin of likely defeat will grow in the coming days.
Where does that leave us.
what happened the last time someone outed their idea of Brexit and nailed themselves to a deal? They have power, promise, magic, Its like a big balloon being punctured, the air just slowly quietly farts out from here. Not Boris day of triumph, today is the day that haunts him, delivering brexit, winning a commons majority all gone now.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
Er,
Soft or no border with RoI and a lot of congruence with EU: check.
Hardish border with GB: check.
Sounds a lot like a not very baby but actially quite grown-up step towards reunification?
Yes, I was being ironic! Varadker has layed an absolute blinder and created a de facto single Irish economic area forever. A political union will follow soon enough. Its the direction of travel in Northern Ireland demographically and, crucially, in the former Conservative and Unionist Party.
Nope, a hard border was the best chance for Irish unity, Boris has avoided that and Northern Ireland will still stay in the same Customs area as GB
No. A hard border might have reignited the Troubles although such an idea is moot as no PM could have overseen one.
Meanwhile to align NI and the RoI while detaching them, together, regulatorily from the mainland is encouraging unification.
I am not hugely surprised that you can't see this but I am happy to keep pointing it out to you.
Has Theresa Villiers said anything yet? As a Spartan and a former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, she’s likely to be influential.
Some Spartans gone very quiet since DUP said too much given away in desperation for a deal. Yet all the Borismaniacs on here talk about is how many labour MPs on top of every Conservative.
Laura Pidcock, who has never even kissed a Tory, will not be too thrilled at the idea of this, even if the Labour MPs are at least on top!
Has Theresa Villiers said anything yet? As a Spartan and a former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, she’s likely to be influential.
Some Spartans gone very quiet since DUP said too much given away in desperation for a deal. Yet all the Borismaniacs on here talk about is how many labour MPs on top of every Conservative.
Laura Pidcock, who has never even kissed a Tory, will not be too thrilled at the idea of this, even if the Labour MPs are at least on top!
You thinking randy thoughts again doctor?
Well, why not? It’s nearly the weekend and in six months it will be the Spring!
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
Er,
Soft or no border with RoI and a lot of congruence with EU: check.
Hardish border with GB: check.
Sounds a lot like a not very baby but actially quite grown-up step towards reunification?
Yes, I was being ironic! Varadker has layed an absolute blinder and created a de facto single Irish economic area forever. A political union will follow soon enough. Its the direction of travel in Northern Ireland demographically and, crucially, in the former Conservative and Unionist Party.
Nope, a hard border was the best chance for Irish unity, Boris has avoided that and Northern Ireland will still stay in the same Customs area as GB.
Which, of course, is why the DUP is so enthusiastic about it!
So Matt Goodwin asked me for my prediction for Saturday's vote.
I'm going for a government defeat that is smaller than MV3.
All great people are predicting that.
Every Labour MP who say they may back the deal always add a caveat to cover themselves when they don’t. Labour support will be comfortably in single figures. I expect the ERG to back the DUP too. The line they will use is the negotiation looked promising until too much was surrendered at the last minute to get it over the line. It will lose by 40+ the margin of likely defeat will grow in the coming days.
Where does that leave us.
what happened the last time someone outed their idea of Brexit and nailed themselves to a deal? They have power, promise, magic, Its like a big balloon being punctured, the air just slowly quietly farts out from here. Not Boris day of triumph, today is the day that haunts him, delivering brexit, winning a commons majority all gone now.
Well, it's a view.....
It’s a fact.
They lose the vote. They can’t have brexit. They can’t an election. They are hungry to remain in their offices of state, they ask for an extension to put their Brexit deal to the country.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
Despite having been there this week you still don't understand the dynamics of this.
What has just happened is that the two entities on the island of Ireland have become more detached from the mainland while remaining aligned with each other.
Read through your Conservative Party email from today. It explicitly separates the mainland from NI.
No, my visit to NI has just reinforced my view, no border when travelling between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has kept so no incentive or need for a united Ireland. Plus Northern Ireland still stays in the UK customs area.
In Antrim the Protestant and Unionist identity is also clear for all to see, as I witnessed posters decrying 'betrayal of the paras in favour of the IRA' in Bushmills so the conditions for UDI in Antrim are certainly there even if there ever was a vote for a united Ireland in the other counties of Northern Ireland
LOL
A week there and you learned nothing. But of course you didn't go to any green areas so that's not surprising. But that's ok. I'm here.
No British PM could have overseen the return of a border in NI so Boris achieved nothing in particular. In the meantime the island's regulatory regime is aligned and is different to that of the mainland.
The fact that 52% of Scots will now accept Brexit and respect the Leave vote even though a majority of them voted Remain is nonetheless a boost to Boris and a blow to the SNP
Are you an idiot? Do you believe what you have just written or are you actively pushing misinformation.
Someone's touchy this evening...must be a difficult poll for a Nat, I quite understand
Why are you happy to exclude the don't knows from your poll but happy to point out they're not included in the 50% indy poll?
As don't knows lean Leave and for the Union as the 2014 and 2016 referendums prove
You've just had an explanation from me why that is no longer relevant.
Theresa Villiers, Steve Baker, Bill Cash, John Redwood - all quiet as far as I can tell. I`ll be amazed if Boris gets them all on board given that DUP are opposed.
I doubt any of them care very much about the DUP. It’s this deal or Remain from here.
If the commons passes it, will Nov 1st be the first day we are officially out?
If it all goes according to plan we'll only be in for 23 hours on the 31st
On the first day of BINO, the EU gave to me.....
Well I’m waiting to hear all the real actionable benefits that I’m about to receive on 1/11 the ones that were worth this shit fest for three years that are going to have any positive impact in my life. I can have a blue passport but is there anything else that actually means anything without resorting to ridiculous argument about sovereignty which actually is a load of bull because our voting system makes the majority of votes worthless.
You have absolutely no right to talk about votes being worthless when you want to ignore the vote of 17.4 million people just because you lost.
I have every right to talk about an election process that is a disgrace, I also have every right to call out a leave vote that was predicated on lies and half truths. Why should I have to accept, without question, what is being inflicted on me when there are no discernible benefits from it and will, over time, actually harm the people who voted for it. I will continue to say leaving is the worst thing the UK has ever done and is only actually getting public support because they think they have had enough. Let’s see how many of the 17.4 million can be arsed getting off the sofa for a second referendum if they think this is such a brilliant idea.
Blah blah blah. You are just looking for excuses to ignore a democratic vote.
And a losers revote will be boycotted by anyone who actually believes in democracy. Which of course doesn't include you.
I hope they boycott it so the remain vote wins. I don’t actually think that gut feel votes in a stupid referendum actually reflects democracy. There are no benefits in leaving apart from those who protect their off shore investments from financially transparency regulations due in 2020.
And there is that arrogance we have all come to know so well. The only votes that should count are the ones you agree with.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
Er,
Soft or no border with RoI and a lot of congruence with EU: check.
Hardish border with GB: check.
Sounds a lot like a not very baby but actially quite grown-up step towards reunification?
Yes, I was being ironic! Varadker has layed an absolute blinder and created a de facto single Irish economic area forever. A political union will follow soon enough. Its the direction of travel in Northern Ireland demographically and, crucially, in the former Conservative and Unionist Party.
Sorry - that Er was aimed at HYUFD! Yes I did dpot the irony - bnut your further points are excellent ones.
UK to leave the EU on or by 31 Oct is 2.8 on Betfair
A GE in 2019 is 2.88
Now it’s 2.56 and 2.96
How can Leave not be fav over GE?
It's not easy to see how the deal passes. Even if every Conservative, whipless or not, votes in favour, you need a (Steve) Baker's dozen of opposition MPs to get the deal over the line. And Saturday will be as good as it gets- the more people talk, the more they will find to dislike.notice that Johnson has conceded everything the EU wanted while apparently thinking otherwise, just as Cummings did with civil servants at the department of Education
FTFY
History repeating itself.
Common factor - a rude, ignorant and not very bright man who thinks he’s a genius.
Balding. If you really want to hurt the man, he is balding.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
Despite having been there this week you still don't understand the dynamics of this.
What has just happened is that the two entities on the island of Ireland have become more detached from the mainland while remaining aligned with each other.
Read through your Conservative Party email from today. It explicitly separates the mainland from NI.
They get it just fine. They don't even bet on politics, they're just here to... Well, I don't know why they are here.
Has Theresa Villiers said anything yet? As a Spartan and a former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, she’s likely to be influential.
Some Spartans gone very quiet since DUP said too much given away in desperation for a deal. Yet all the Borismaniacs on here talk about is how many labour MPs on top of every Conservative.
There are bound to be some Tory holdouts even with the potential threat of having the whip removed. There were 34 Tory holdouts last time, something like 6 or so were Grievers rather than ERG Spartans, so call it 28 or so. Get all of them and it gets you to the mid 310s, but assume 5 or so ex-Con don't back the deal and a minimum of 5 ERG holdouts and you are back around 305 as a top estimate without more Lab MPs, so best case scenario needing around 10-15.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
Don't ever change!
Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?
I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
Don't ever change!
Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?
I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
Don't ever change!
Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?
I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!
Yes. As @Stark_Dawning noted, if only Theresa had been so cavalier with the Union we would have been here months ago.
If the commons passes it, will Nov 1st be the first day we are officially out?
If it all goes according to plan we'll only be in for 23 hours on the 31st
On the first day of BINO, the EU gave to me.....
Well I’m waiting to hear all the real actionable benefits that I’m about to receive on 1/11 the ones that were worth this shit fest for three years that are going to have any positive impact in my life. I can have a blue passport but is there anything else that actually means anything without resorting to ridiculous argument about sovereignty which actually is a load of bull because our voting system makes the majority of votes worthless.
You have absolutely no right to talk about votes being worthless when you want to ignore the vote of 17.4 million people just because you lost.
I have every right to talk about an election process that is a disgrace, I also have every right to call out a leave vote that was predicated on lies and half truths. Why should I have to accept, without question, what is being inflicted on me when there are no discernible benefits from it and will, over time, actually harm the people who voted for it. I will continue to say leaving is the worst thing the UK has ever done and is only actually getting public support because they think they have had enough. Let’s see how many of the 17.4 million can be arsed getting off the sofa for a second referendum if they think this is such a brilliant idea.
Blah blah blah. You are just looking for excuses to ignore a democratic vote.
And a losers revote will be boycotted by anyone who actually believes in democracy. Which of course doesn't include you.
I hope they boycott it so the remain vote wins. I don’t actually think that gut feel votes in a stupid referendum actually reflects democracy. There are no benefits in leaving apart from those who protect their off shore investments from financially transparency regulations due in 2020.
And there is that arrogance we have all come to know so well. The only votes that should count are the ones you agree with.
Haha. The irony of that coming from a Brexiteer is something to behold.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
Despite having been there this week you still don't understand the dynamics of this.
What has just happened is that the two entities on the island of Ireland have become more detached from the mainland while remaining aligned with each other.
Read through your Conservative Party email from today. It explicitly separates the mainland from NI.
No, my visit to NI has just reinforced my view, no border when travelling between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has kept so no incentive or need for a united Ireland. Plus Northern Ireland still stays in the UK customs area.
In Antrim the Protestant and Unionist identity is also clear for all to see, as I witnessed posters decrying 'betrayal of the paras in favour of the IRA' in Bushmills so the conditions for UDI in Antrim are certainly there even if there ever was a vote for a united Ireland in the other counties of Northern Ireland
LOL
A week there and you learned nothing. But of course you didn't go to any green areas so that's not surprising. But that's ok. I'm here.
No British PM could have overseen the return of a border in NI so Boris achieved nothing in particular. In the meantime the island's regulatory regime is aligned and is different to that of the mainland.
There is a border though. If the Republic built a shed without permission north of it or vice versa it'd soon be removed. Almost all parties want a very well defined border, unless, for some, there's none at all.
Being in the EU has allowed an apparent fiction of there not being a border.
There actually being no border would be better - that would require Ireland eating up NI, or the UK eating up Ireland, or something bigger eating us both up.
The something bigger will probably come some day. It's just not the EU.
Theresa Villiers, Steve Baker, Bill Cash, John Redwood - all quiet as far as I can tell. I`ll be amazed if Boris gets them all on board given that DUP are opposed.
I doubt any of them care very much about the DUP. It’s this deal or Remain from here.
No. Some of them are made of different stuff. Just as DUP can see also articulate what is wrong so can they.
Er, don’t know if this good example but I will go with it anyway. Think of Ireland. Think of Collins. Think of the settlement. A complicated political situation where one side says sell out, others like the trappings of power they got. So they split. But really in their nature split all along.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
Don't ever change!
Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?
I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!
He just can’t win can he?!
He has agreed a deal. Well done him. He has done so by doing something not only that the Conservative Party believed no British PM could ever do but also that they disliked so much that they specifically legislated against it.
Part of the problem with this is the totally unrepresentative nature of Northern Ireland's contribution to the House of Commons. The DUP had 36% of the vote and have 91% of the MPs!
We all know the reason for this but it is crazy that we keep considering NI politics in terms of the DUP. It would be absurd to call this a betrayal of Northern Ireland if it is what most people in the province want. My main concern is the lack of consultation - and private conversations with 10 MPs doesn't cut it.
If the commons passes it, will Nov 1st be the first day we are officially out?
If it all goes according to plan we'll only be in for 23 hours on the 31st
On the first day of BINO, the EU gave to me.....
Well I’m waiting to hear all the real actionable benefits that I’m about to receive on 1/11 the ones that were worth this shit fest for three years that are going to have any positive impact in my life. I can have a blue passport but is there anything else that actually means anything without resorting to ridiculous argument about sovereignty which actually is a load of bull because our voting system makes the majority of votes worthless.
You have absolutely no right to talk about votes being worthless when you want to ignore the vote of 17.4 million people just because you lost.
I have every right to talk about an election process that is a disgrace, I also have every right to call out a leave vote that was predicated on lies and half truths. Why should I have to accept, without question, what is being inflicted on me when there are no discernible benefits from it and will, over time, actually harm the people who voted for it. I will continue to say leaving is the worst thing the UK has ever done and is only actually getting public support because they think they have had enough. Let’s see how many of the 17.4 million can be arsed getting off the sofa for a second referendum if they think this is such a brilliant idea.
Blah blah blah. You are just looking for excuses to ignore a democratic vote.
And a losers revote will be boycotted by anyone who actually believes in democracy. Which of course doesn't include you.
I hope they boycott it so the remain vote wins. I don’t actually think that gut feel votes in a stupid referendum actually reflects democracy. There are no benefits in leaving apart from those who protect their off shore investments from financially transparency regulations due in 2020.
And there is that arrogance we have all come to know so well. The only votes that should count are the ones you agree with.
You have done nothing to make this easier, I was promised EEA/EFTA by my tory MPMarcus Fysh before the referendum and now he is ERG why should I have any respect for any of the leavers now?
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
Despite having been there this week you still don't understand the dynamics of this.
What has just happened is that the two entities on the island of Ireland have become more detached from the mainland while remaining aligned with each other.
Read through your Conservative Party email from today. It explicitly separates the mainland from NI.
No, my visit to NI has just reinforced my view, no border when travelling between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has kept so no incentive or need for a united Ireland. Plus Northern Ireland still stays in the UK customs area.
In Antrim the Protestant and Unionist identity is also clear for all to see, as I witnessed posters decrying 'betrayal of the paras in favour of the IRA' in Bushmills so the conditions for UDI in Antrim are certainly there even if there ever was a vote for a united Ireland in the other counties of Northern Ireland
Take a backstop we can’t get out of. Turn it into a backstop we need the IRA’s permission to get out of
Rather depends how many are 'unknown or unclear' but their records are such it is leaning more no than yes. Does it include those who repeatedly say they might then vote no, and who just haven't spoken yet?
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
Despite having been there this week you still don't understand the dynamics of this.
What has just happened is that the two entities on the island of Ireland have become more detached from the mainland while remaining aligned with each other.
Read through your Conservative Party email from today. It explicitly separates the mainland from NI.
No, my visit to NI has just reinforced my view, no border when travelling between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has kept so no incentive or need for a united Ireland. Plus Northern Ireland still stays in the UK customs area.
In Antrim the Protestant and Unionist identity is also clear for all to see, as I witnessed posters decrying 'betrayal of the paras in favour of the IRA' in Bushmills so the conditions for UDI in Antrim are certainly there even if there ever was a vote for a united Ireland in the other counties of Northern Ireland
LOL
A week there and you learned nothing. But of course you didn't go to any green areas so that's not surprising. But that's ok. I'm here.
No British PM could have overseen the return of a border in NI so Boris achieved nothing in particular. In the meantime the island's regulatory regime is aligned and is different to that of the mainland.
There is a border though. If the Republic built a shed without permission north of it or vice versa it'd soon be removed. Almost all parties want a very well defined border, unless, for some, there's none at all.
Being in the EU has allowed an apparent fiction of there not being a border.
There actually being no border would be better - that would require Ireland eating up NI, or the UK eating up Ireland, or something bigger eating us both up.
The something bigger will probably come some day. It's just not the EU.
I prefer an existential phenomenological approach to this. It may have been a fiction but it worked. Let's not try to get under the bonnet.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
Don't ever change!
Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?
I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!
Bercow votes no, in line with precedent that such a major decision should only be made by a genuine majority.
But I’m not sure that would apply here, because whatever option Parliament votes for the status quo will not be one of them. That could only be Revoke and that wouldn’t be part of the motion.
But my guess is this will fall by around twenty votes.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
Don't ever change!
Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?
I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!
He just can’t win can he?!
He has won, hasn’t he?
That's the great unknown. I don't believe Boris is that lucky so I suspect there are a few more issues still to come.
I'd think so, at least in a MV6. My guess is if they get over 310 on Sat they'll flip a few with some old-fashioned pork, and the rest with alterations to the PD.
Bercow votes no, in line with precedent that such a major decision should only be made by a genuine majority.
That would be my understanding but obviously on here he will be the devil incarnate turning precedent on its head because he doesn’t do what they want, welcome to the new warmer all inclusive UK that this deal now heralds
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
Despite having been there this week you still don't understand the dynamics of this.
What has just happened is that the two entities on the island of Ireland have become more detached from the mainland while remaining aligned with each other.
Read through your Conservative Party email from today. It explicitly separates the mainland from NI.
No, my visit to NI has just reinforced my view, no border when travelling between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has kept so no incentive or need for a united Ireland. Plus Northern Ireland still stays in the UK customs area.
In Antrim the Protestant and Unionist identity is also clear for all to see, as I witnessed posters decrying 'betrayal of the paras in favour of the IRA' in Bushmills so the conditions for UDI in Antrim are certainly there even if there ever was a vote for a united Ireland in the other counties of Northern Ireland
LOL
A week there and you learned nothing. But of course you didn't go to any green areas so that's not surprising. But that's ok. I'm here.
No British PM could have overseen the return of a border in NI so Boris achieved nothing in particular. In the meantime the island's regulatory regime is aligned and is different to that of the mainland.
There is a border though. If the Republic built a shed without permission north of it or vice versa it'd soon be removed. Almost all parties want a very well defined border, unless, for some, there's none at all.
Being in the EU has allowed an apparent fiction of there not being a border.
There actually being no border would be better - that would require Ireland eating up NI, or the UK eating up Ireland, or something bigger eating us both up.
The something bigger will probably come some day. It's just not the EU.
I prefer an existential phenomenological approach to this. It may have been a fiction but it worked. Let's not try to get under the bonnet.
Sounds wise. The word 'practical' springs to mind as one you may have used though (existential phenomenological!!)
Her constituency voted Remain anyway, 2/3 of MPs have Leave voting seats
You have said before a Tory majority would be needed to pass a deal - do you still think that is the case, or do you think it will pass, and if so how many Lab votes will it take?
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
Despite having been there this week you still don't understand the dynamics of this.
What has just happened is that the two entities on the island of Ireland have become more detached from the mainland while remaining aligned with each other.
Read through your Conservative Party email from today. It explicitly separates the mainland from NI.
No, my visit to NI has just reinforced my view, no border when travelling between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which Boris has kept so no incentive or need for a united Ireland. Plus Northern Ireland still stays in the UK customs area.
In Antrim the Protestant and Unionist identity is also clear for all to see, as I witnessed posters decrying 'betrayal of the paras in favour of the IRA' in Bushmills so the conditions for UDI in Antrim are certainly there even if there ever was a vote for a united Ireland in the other counties of Northern Ireland
LOL
A week there and you learned nothing. But of course you didn't go to any green areas so that's not surprising. But that's ok. I'm here.
No British PM could have overseen the return of a border in NI so Boris achieved nothing in particular. In the meantime the island's regulatory regime is aligned and is different to that of the mainland.
There is a border though. If the Republic built a shed without permission north of it or vice versa it'd soon be removed. Almost all parties want a very well defined border, unless, for some, there's none at all.
Being in the EU has allowed an apparent fiction of there not being a border.
There actually being no border would be better - that would require Ireland eating up NI, or the UK eating up Ireland, or something bigger eating us both up.
The something bigger will probably come some day. It's just not the EU.
I prefer an existential phenomenological approach to this. It may have been a fiction but it worked. Let's not try to get under the bonnet.
Sounds wise. The word 'practical' springs to mind as one you may have used though (existential phenomenological!!)
Rather depends how many are 'unknown or unclear' but their records are such it is leaning more no than yes. Does it include those who repeatedly say they might then vote no, and who just haven't spoken yet?
It feels like it is really going to happen this time. The ERG may grumble but looks like most of them will back it and enough of the LAB leave seat MPs will back it or abstain.
The reality is that for all Lab say they oppose the deal, really it is in their best interests to see it passed with a few rebels. An election is coming soon - if it is an election all about Brexit then Lab risk being squeezed on both sides, losing remainers to the LDs and leavers to Con or Brexit.
If Brexit happens, then the Brexit party will fade away, while the LDs will probably fall back a bit. And more importantly the election will then be about public spending, which is much surer ground for Corbyn.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
Don't ever change!
Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?
I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!
He just can’t win can he?!
He has won, hasn’t he?
That's the great unknown. I don't believe Boris is that lucky so I suspect there are a few more issues still to come.
But he still wins. We extend and he storms the GE. He’s played it very well.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
Er,
Soft or no border with RoI and a lot of congruence with EU: check.
Hardish border with GB: check.
Sounds a lot like a not very baby but actially quite grown-up step towards reunification?
Yes, I was being ironic! Varadker has layed an absolute blinder and created a de facto single Irish economic area forever. A political union will follow soon enough. Its the direction of travel in Northern Ireland demographically and, crucially, in the former Conservative and Unionist Party.
Nope, a hard border was the best chance for Irish unity, Boris has avoided that and Northern Ireland will still stay in the same Customs area as GB
No. A hard border might have reignited the Troubles although such an idea is moot as no PM could have overseen one.
Meanwhile to align NI and the RoI while detaching them, together, regulatorily from the mainland is encouraging unification.
I am not hugely surprised that you can't see this but I am happy to keep pointing it out to you.
NI and the RoI are already aligned in terms of a border, there was no difference driving between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland for me this week than when I drive between Essex and Kent, no border or checks at all.
A hard border would however have guaranteed a majority of Northern Ireland voters backed formal political Irish unity not just the largely economic unity it has now
I find this line that it weakens a these worker and environmental rights...but that is only if our parliament decides to change them and brexit has shown our parliament has become very good at saying no to change
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
Don't ever change!
Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?
I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!
He just can’t win can he?!
He has won, hasn’t he?
That's the great unknown. I don't believe Boris is that lucky so I suspect there are a few more issues still to come.
But he still wins. We extend and he storms the GE. He’s played it very well.
How does he get the GE? The only two options for Boris if he loses vote. Resign. Or ask EU for extension to put his deal to the country. Get on this at the current price.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
Don't ever change!
Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?
I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!
He just can’t win can he?!
He has won, hasn’t he?
I mean with you! You’ve been saying for months that, of course, Johnson, after not winning the leadership after his violent argument with his girlfriend, and through the prism of everything he does in life being viewed by what a terrible person he is, is leading us, of course, to no deal, and all the terrible Tory things that go with it.
So he gets a deal, and those forecasts are down the memory hole with hands not held up as a new crime is committed!! 🤣
I think the key players are Labour MPs like Lisa Nandy . If she says yes then I think the deal is likely to go through as that suggests there would be a decent amount of MPs willing to do the same .
I think the key players are Labour MPs like Lisa Nandy . If she says yes then I think the deal is likely to go through as that suggests there would be a decent amount of MPs willing to do the same .
Well that's sunk it then! No-Yes-No Nandy?
Still, Boris has proven me wrong by getting a deal, perhaps she can surprise me too.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
Don't ever change!
Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?
I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!
He just can’t win can he?!
He has won, hasn’t he?
That's the great unknown. I don't believe Boris is that lucky so I suspect there are a few more issues still to come.
A willingness to sell your grandmother is a useful attribute sometimes, which May never possessed.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
Don't ever change!
Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?
I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!
He just can’t win can he?!
He has won, hasn’t he?
That's the great unknown. I don't believe Boris is that lucky so I suspect there are a few more issues still to come.
But he still wins. We extend and he storms the GE. He’s played it very well.
How does he get the GE? The only two options for Boris if he loses vote. Resign. Or ask EU for extension to put his deal to the country. Get on this at the current price.
FTPA gets amended by a simple majority to allow the election. LibDems, SNP up for it....just Labour that is shit scared.
You have done nothing to make this easier, I was promised EEA/EFTA by my tory MPMarcus Fysh before the referendum and now he is ERG why should I have any respect for any of the leavers now?
I have done everything I can to make it easier. I supported an EFTA deal since long before anyone ever dreamed of a referendum and have not moved from that wish at all since then. But we don't always get everything we want and unlike you I have been willing to compromise. I will take any deal that gets us out of the EU. But I also said on here many times before the vote that if we lost I would accept that. Unfortunately you are not enough of an adult to do the same.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
Don't ever change!
Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?
I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!
He just can’t win can he?!
He has won, hasn’t he?
That's the great unknown. I don't believe Boris is that lucky so I suspect there are a few more issues still to come.
But he still wins. We extend and he storms the GE. He’s played it very well.
Yes, they still need to be held to account for the lies they tell and the artificial future they suggest. The really interesting thing which seems to be being missed is how tired and sadCorbyn sounds, I’m not sure where he now goes but there is a clear path, once we get over the emotional impact of leaving, for the lib dems to fight for as close a relationship as possible
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
Don't ever change!
Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?
I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!
He just can’t win can he?!
He has won, hasn’t he?
I mean with you! You’ve been saying for months that, of course, Johnson, after not winning the leadership after his violent argument with his girlfriend, and through the prism of everything he does in life being viewed by what a terrible person he is, is leading us, of course, to no deal, and all the terrible Tory things that go with it.
So he gets a deal, and those forecasts are down the memory hole with hands not held up as a new crime is committed!! 🤣
Can you not see the ground-breaking change from yesterday? Boris has now nailed himself to this deal. He had it all in his grasp until he revealed his hand. He’s finished. Brexit almost finished.
EU opened WA and changed it when they had a vain and panicking UK government surrendering. They opened it changed it to add the surrenders, esp the line British Prime minister must pick up the DUP and throw them under a bus.
This deal the EU will junk the moment another government offers all U.K. in the EU CU.
Any idea that Boris is a winner is complete fantasy.
If the commons passes it, will Nov 1st be the first day we are officially out?
If it all goes according to plan we'll only be in for 23 hours on the 31st
On the first day of BINO, the EU gave to me.....
Well I’m waiting to hear all the real actionable benefits that I’m about to receive on 1/11 the ones that were worth this shit fest for three years that are going to have any positive impact in my life. I can have a blue passport but is there anything else that actually means anything without resorting to ridiculous argument about sovereignty which actually is a load of bull because our voting system makes the majority of votes worthless.
You have absolutely no right to talk about votes being worthless when you want to ignore the vote of 17.4 million people just because you lost.
I have every right to talk about an election process that is a disgrace, I also have every right to call out a leave vote that was predicated on lies and half truths. Why should I have to accept, without question, what is being inflicted on me when there are no discernible benefits from it and will, over time, actually harm the people who voted for it. I will continue to say leaving is the worst thing the UK has ever done and is only actually getting public support because they think they have had enough. Let’s see how many of the 17.4 million can be arsed getting off the sofa for a second referendum if they think this is such a brilliant idea.
Blah blah blah. You are just looking for excuses to ignore a democratic vote.
And a losers revote will be boycotted by anyone who actually believes in democracy. Which of course doesn't include you.
I hope they boycott it so the remain vote wins. I don’t actually think that gut feel votes in a stupid referendum actually reflects democracy. There are no benefits in leaving apart from those who protect their off shore investments from financially transparency regulations due in 2020.
And there is that arrogance we have all come to know so well. The only votes that should count are the ones you agree with.
Haha. The irony of that coming from a Brexiteer is something to behold.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
Er,
Soft or no border with RoI and a lot of congruence with EU: check.
Hardish border with GB: check.
Sounds a lot like a not very baby but actially quite grown-up step towards reunification?
Yes, I was being ironic! Varadker has layed an absolute blinder and created a de facto single Irish economic area forever. A political union will follow soon enough. Its the direction of travel in Northern Ireland demographically and, crucially, in the former Conservative and Unionist Party.
Nope, a hard border was the best chance for Irish unity, Boris has avoided that and Northern Ireland will still stay in the same Customs area as GB
No. A hard border might have reignited the Troubles although such an idea is moot as no PM could have overseen one.
Meanwhile to align NI and the RoI while detaching them, together, regulatorily from the mainland is encouraging unification.
I am not hugely surprised that you can't see this but I am happy to keep pointing it out to you.
NI and the RoI are already aligned in terms of a border, there was no difference driving between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland for me this week than when I drive between Essex and Kent, no border or checks at all.
A hard border would however have guaranteed a majority of Northern Ireland voters backed formal political Irish unity not just the largely economic unity it has now
The deal has just explicitly separated NI and RoI regulatorily from Great Britain. The email that you and I received today made an explicit separation between the mainland and Northern Ireland. Holistically the island of Ireland is more aligned.
That is a nationalist's wet dream.
I know you have just been there but you weren't in the right places asking the right people the right questions to gain an understanding of the issue. But the North Antrim coast I agree is a fantastic place. Bushmills is also a great place to visit.
I think the key players are Labour MPs like Lisa Nandy . If she says yes then I think the deal is likely to go through as that suggests there would be a decent amount of MPs willing to do the same .
I cannot see Nandy voting for it. She still has a future.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
Don't ever change!
Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?
I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!
He just can’t win can he?!
When people considered the kind of deal he could potentially bring back "Border down the Irish Sea" which he had previously labelled as unacceptable was not high on the list.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
Don't ever change!
Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?
I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!
He just can’t win can he?!
He has won, hasn’t he?
There have been so many sugar rushes for both sides of this debate these last three years that I have no expectation of this one lasting.
On a more philosophical note, I am working my way through a list of 100 books David Bowie recommended as part of an exhibition shortly before he died. I had never attempted Dante before and, was as a result, was reminded/educated about the bloody schism between the Guelphs and Ghibellines in late medieval Italy. That conflict, simplistically between supporters of the temporal power of the Papacy and that of the Holy Roman Emperor (and which was the back story to Romeo and Juliet in Verona) was as bitter as our current division, if not more. But who gives a monkeys now? Which side ultimately “won”? The equivalent day will come between Leavers and Remainers, probably sooner than we think.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
Don't ever change!
Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?
I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!
He just can’t win can he?!
He has won, hasn’t he?
I mean with you! You’ve been saying for months that, of course, Johnson, after not winning the leadership after his violent argument with his girlfriend, and through the prism of everything he does in life being viewed by what a terrible person he is, is leading us, of course, to no deal, and all the terrible Tory things that go with it.
So he gets a deal, and those forecasts are down the memory hole with hands not held up as a new crime is committed!! 🤣
Can you not see the ground-breaking change from yesterday? Boris has now nailed himself to this deal. He had it all in his grasp until he revealed his hand. He’s finished. Brexit almost finished.
EU opened WA and changed it when they had a vain and panicking UK government surrendering. They opened it changed it to add the surrenders, esp the line British Prime minister must pick up the DUP and throw them under a bus.
This deal the EU will junk the moment another government offers all U.K. in the EU CU.
Any idea that Boris is a winner is complete fantasy.
I find this line that it weakens a these worker and environmental rights...but that is only if our parliament decides to change them and brexit has shown our parliament has become very good at saying no to change
Interesting this MP comes up with arguments having read the deal 41 minutes ago.... yet in her timeline she'd retweeted magic grandpa saying the exact same things 8 hours ago but tweaking the wording...
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
Don't ever change!
Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?
I doubt it. Johnson proved my wrong. I genuinely did not see him throwing the DUP under a train so easily. My crucial mistake was to believe him when he talked of “our precious Union”. More fool me!!
He just can’t win can he?!
He has won, hasn’t he?
I mean with you! You’ve been saying for months that, of course, Johnson, after not winning the leadership after his violent argument with his girlfriend, and through the prism of everything he does in life being viewed by what a terrible person he is, is leading us, of course, to no deal, and all the terrible Tory things that go with it.
So he gets a deal, and those forecasts are down the memory hole with hands not held up as a new crime is committed!! 🤣
Can you not see the ground-breaking change from yesterday? Boris has now nailed himself to this deal. He had it all in his grasp until he revealed his hand. He’s finished. Brexit almost finished.
EU opened WA and changed it when they had a vain and panicking UK government surrendering. They opened it changed it to add the surrenders, esp the line British Prime minister must pick up the DUP and throw them under a bus.
This deal the EU will junk the moment another government offers all U.K. in the EU CU.
Any idea that Boris is a winner is complete fantasy.
Her constituency voted Remain anyway, 2/3 of MPs have Leave voting seats
You have said before a Tory majority would be needed to pass a deal - do you still think that is the case, or do you think it will pass, and if so how many Lab votes will it take?
It would take 20 to 30 Labour MPs which is possible if the alternative is No Deal but not if the alternative is extension.
In the unlikely event the EU agreed further extension and France does not veto then of course we are into all out war from next week with the diehard Remainers with Boris sabotaging extension at every turn with full support from Tories and Leavers
Speaker Bercow gets the casting vote... And votes for Brexit!
I think he might.
My first thought when I read the below was that he wouldn't in a million years. However if he didn't then he's allowing quite irregular legislation to come into play. The status quo is no-deal. He clearly doesn't want that. A deal is closer to the status quo than all the irregular legislation.
Does he have to choose? I presume he can abstain? What happens then?
If it all goes according to plan we'll only be in for 23 hours on the 31st
On the first day of BINO, the EU gave to me.....
Well I’m waiting to hear all the real actionable benefits that I’m about to receive on 1/11 the ones that were worth this shit fest for three years that are going to have any positive impact in my life. I can have a blue passport but is there anything else that actually means anything without resorting to ridiculous argument about sovereignty which actually is a load of bull because our voting system makes the majority of votes worthless.
You have absolutely no right to talk about votes being worthless when you want to ignore the vote of 17.4 million people just because you lost.
I have every right to talk about an election process that is a disgrace, I also have every right to call out a leave vote that was predicated on lies and half truths. Why should I have to accept, without question, what is being inflicted on me when there are no discernible benefits from it and will, over time, actually harm the people who voted for it. I will continue to say leaving is the worst thing the UK has ever done and is only actually getting public support because they think they have had enough. Let’s see how many of the 17.4 million can be arsed getting off the sofa for a second referendum if they think this is such a brilliant idea.
Blah blah blah. You are just looking for excuses to ignore a democratic vote.
And a losers revote will be boycotted by anyone who actually believes in democracy. Which of course doesn't include you.
I hope they boycott it so the remain vote wins. I don’t actually think that gut feel votes in a stupid referendum actually reflects democracy. There are no benefits in leaving apart from those who protect their off shore investments from financially transparency regulations due in 2020.
And there is that arrogance we have all come to know so well. The only votes that should count are the ones you agree with.
Haha. The irony of that coming from a Brexiteer is something to behold.
Only because you are too dumb to understand.
Stop insulting people’s intelligence so frequently. People can have different interpretations of the same facts. You and I are on differing sides of this debate but both would have supported EEA/EFTA membership.
Comments
Which betting market to place our money on? I think today settles it. It’s now obvious what happens first, the psychology of the situation, the vanity versus their options once this deal loses in commons, election nor Brexit an option to them, those options really not there yet their vanity their cause to exist very strong, therefore something justifies the extension,
When Dublin whispered sweet things to him in the love garden he should have been wise to reject I had my doubts about his judgment. When he picked the DUP up and threw them under a bus I am convinced there’s far too much putting self interest before everything else. Put all your money on a second/confirmatory ref before anything else happens. No Brexit no election before Boris deal v remain goes to the country. That’s what I’m doing.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/brexit-rebels-backing-boris-johnson-deal
History repeating itself.
Common factor - a rude, ignorant and not very bright man who thinks he’s a genius.
Some Spartans gone very quiet since DUP said too much given away in desperation for a deal. Yet all the Borismaniacs on here talk about is how many labour MPs on top of every Conservative.
In Antrim the Protestant and Unionist identity is also clear for all to see, as I witnessed posters decrying 'betrayal of the paras in favour of the IRA' in Bushmills so the conditions for UDI in Antrim are certainly there even if there ever was a vote for a united Ireland in the other counties of Northern Ireland
I asked earlier, I’m curious to know how long you’ve lived in Romford and what you think of it? I have lived in Hornchurch or Upminster most of my life, and Romford is a no go area now, having been the place we all went 20 years ago
The May deal was “better” if your target is a very close, EEA type end state and you think the U.K. being in a customs union with the EU is tolerable, or even desirable (In the way the actual EEA does not).
The Boris deal is better if you think you’ll have the numbers in Parliament for a simpler free trade deal when the crunch comes (post election), AND you don’t mind really going for no deal in a year or two if the EU cuts up rough over fishing or agriculture (though the NI arrangement would make that pretty painful for them).
As ever, neither side gets the fact that some people really do think no deal is terrifying; and some of us really do think there’s nothing to fear long term if we had to.
Meanwhile to align NI and the RoI while detaching them, together, regulatorily from the mainland is encouraging unification.
I am not hugely surprised that you can't see this but I am happy to keep pointing it out to you.
Why?
They lose the vote. They can’t have brexit. They can’t an election. They are hungry to remain in their offices of state, they ask for an extension to put their Brexit deal to the country.
Get on at current odds.
A week there and you learned nothing. But of course you didn't go to any green areas so that's not surprising. But that's ok. I'm here.
No British PM could have overseen the return of a border in NI so Boris achieved nothing in particular. In the meantime the island's regulatory regime is aligned and is different to that of the mainland.
Balding. If you really want to hurt the man, he is balding.
Oh sorry doc I forgot
So so close.
Being in the EU has allowed an apparent fiction of there not being a border.
There actually being no border would be better - that would require Ireland eating up NI, or the UK eating up Ireland, or something bigger eating us both up.
The something bigger will probably come some day. It's just not the EU.
Er, don’t know if this good example but I will go with it anyway. Think of Ireland. Think of Collins. Think of the settlement. A complicated political situation where one side says sell out, others like the trappings of power they got. So they split. But really in their nature split all along.
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1184894286728499201
It is reasonable to marvel at such audacity
Falls by 13 looks a lot more likely
Passes by 1 would be plenty
We all know the reason for this but it is crazy that we keep considering NI politics in terms of the DUP. It would be absurd to call this a betrayal of Northern Ireland if it is what most people in the province want. My main concern is the lack of consultation - and private conversations with 10 MPs doesn't cut it.
Roman salute negotiating triumph
But my guess is this will fall by around twenty votes.
And yes, vicky versa
The reality is that for all Lab say they oppose the deal, really it is in their best interests to see it passed with a few rebels. An election is coming soon - if it is an election all about Brexit then Lab risk being squeezed on both sides, losing remainers to the LDs and leavers to Con or Brexit.
If Brexit happens, then the Brexit party will fade away, while the LDs will probably fall back a bit. And more importantly the election will then be about public spending, which is much surer ground for Corbyn.
A hard border would however have guaranteed a majority of Northern Ireland voters backed formal political Irish unity not just the largely economic unity it has now
So he gets a deal, and those forecasts are down the memory hole with hands not held up as a new crime is committed!! 🤣
Still, Boris has proven me wrong by getting a deal, perhaps she can surprise me too.
EU leaves door open to Brexit extension, in blow to Boris Johnson
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/17/boris-johnson-and-eu-reach-brexit-deal-without-dup-backing
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1184905347972120577?s=21
EU opened WA and changed it when they had a vain and panicking UK government surrendering. They opened it changed it to add the surrenders, esp the line British Prime minister must pick up the DUP and throw them under a bus.
This deal the EU will junk the moment another government offers all U.K. in the EU CU.
Any idea that Boris is a winner is complete fantasy.
That is a nationalist's wet dream.
I know you have just been there but you weren't in the right places asking the right people the right questions to gain an understanding of the issue. But the North Antrim coast I agree is a fantastic place. Bushmills is also a great place to visit.
We know anyway France will veto further extension without a change such as EUref2 or a GE if the Commons again rejects a Brexit Deal
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-article-50-extend-macron-merkel-theresa-may-france-germany-eu-talks-a8799506.html
On a more philosophical note, I am working my way through a list of 100 books David Bowie recommended as part of an exhibition shortly before he died. I had never attempted Dante before and, was as a result, was reminded/educated about the bloody schism between the Guelphs and Ghibellines in late medieval Italy. That conflict, simplistically between supporters of the temporal power of the Papacy and that of the Holy Roman Emperor (and which was the back story to Romeo and Juliet in Verona) was as bitter as our current division, if not more. But who gives a monkeys now? Which side ultimately “won”? The equivalent day will come between Leavers and Remainers, probably sooner than we think.
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1184900824608264193
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1184778593412538370?s=20
In the unlikely event the EU agreed further extension and France does not veto then of course we are into all out war from next week with the diehard Remainers with Boris sabotaging extension at every turn with full support from Tories and Leavers
My first thought when I read the below was that he wouldn't in a million years. However if he didn't then he's allowing quite irregular legislation to come into play. The status quo is no-deal. He clearly doesn't want that. A deal is closer to the status quo than all the irregular legislation.
Does he have to choose? I presume he can abstain? What happens then?