I think you'll have Grieve Gauke Greening Bebb against, the others may vote for, if the ERG are on board bar a few holdouts he might need ca 18 indies and labour for a deal..........
Gauke I think will vote yes but Grieve, Greening and Bebb no
So we have Farage now celebrating Benn Act, Starmer claiming it definitely worse deal, even though he won't have seen the text yet and Swinson of course claiming the only deal is to stay in the EU.
The HoC will say no and its going to be more silly buggering around isn't it.
No it wil be No Deal then as the EU have now refused further extension
Junker saying 'we have a deal so there is no need for an extension' is not the same thing as him saying that there will be no extension. it is also in the gift of the council to decide not his. most of this was signalling, prompted by boris, to allow a deal/nodeal vote on saturday.
It is if the UK Parliament rejects the Deal there is no need for an extension without a change of circumstance ie EUref2 or a GE
HYUFD makes a lot of statements that I find questionable, but in this instance he assesses the situation correctly, in my humble view. British pundits of any colour seem to severely underestimate the appetite in many, many member states to conclude the matter, now.
Stopped clock, etc.
Anyway, whatever their frustration with the UK, permitting a No Deal by refusing an extension would be throwing Ireland under the bus. I can't see them doing that, I really can't.
Surely that's right - and any implied threat of No Extension is unconvincing, because everybody knows it (even if some here would love to believe in Deal or No Deal).
It doesnt need to be convincing to be effective. If it gives political cover to 10 more Labour leavers to vote for the deal, claiming they are stopping no deal, that would make the implied threat effective. The Labour leavers dont need to believe the threat, just be able to make political excuses with it.
I think you'll have Grieve Gauke Greening Bebb against, the others may vote for, if the ERG are on board bar a few holdouts he might need ca 18 indies and labour for a deal..........
And getting 18 switchers is a stretch. Maybe it could happen, maybe it should happen (though the pressure to sign this off nownowNOW is ominous). But maybe, in the grand scheme of things, nothing has changed today.
Erg support has changed a bit but on it's own that's not enough.
The SNP may be furious they cannot use No Deal as an excuse to give them a good chance of Yes in any indyref2, I assure you a majority of Scots are not and will be happy Boris has a Deal with the EU that avoids No Deal.
By avoiding a hard border in Ireland between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland Boris has also made it less likely Northern Ireland votes for a united Ireland.
The Boris Deal thus delivers Brexit and removes the GB backstop (and ends free movement in GB and enables our own trade deals) and makes the breakup of the UK less likely
Come now - the recent polling was for 50% for indy, and that was pre Brexit.
That was excluding Don't Knows most of whom would go No as Quebec 1995 showed, only No Deal got a slim Yes majority in that poll.
Plus of course Boris and Westminster will block indyref2 for the foreseeable future anyway
Possibly you are not allowing for the fact that indyref2 will not be like the previous
If I were, say, an Edinburgh middle-class type working in the financial industry, or a coastal fisherman, I might well vote Yes this time.
Remember - polling got more votes for independence in the event of Brexit.
In fact, it is a point to bear in mind for NI as well, and Wales too.
And re denying a vote - I thought you wanted to invade Spain, not emulate it?
The Scots are avoiding No Deal which us fine enough for most of them given a majority now want to respect the Leave vote and deliver Brexit.
Wales voted Leave.
I am not emulating Spain as I am not yet proposing arresting and jailing Sturgeon and SNP leaders as Spain has arrested and jailed Catalan leaders, I am only saying indyref2 should be blocked for the foreseeable future
C an you point me to a reputable poll saying the Scots now want Brexit, please?
As for Spain, it happened because the central gmtd denied the poll in the first place.
That's a leading question - actually the real figure for wanting to stay is 54% witdh a more neutral question in that database. Interesting, though, that the Scots are still the least Brsexity of any region sampled.
The fact that 52% of Scots will now accept Brexit and respect the Leave vote even though a majority of them voted Remain is nonetheless a boost to Boris and a blow to the SNP
I think you'll have Grieve Gauke Greening Bebb against, the others may vote for, if the ERG are on board bar a few holdouts he might need ca 18 indies and labour for a deal..........
Gauke I think will vote yes but Grieve, Greening and Bebb no
Here's how: Johnson loses vote on Saturday. UK faces No Deal breakfast - but Johnson refuses to send letter. VoNC. There isn't time for Swinson to f*** about. Even Farage backs Benn Act. Corbyn is PM. Letter is sent. 2nd ref follows.
He doesn't have the votes to become PM, even with the LDs
He can become PM but not stay PM after being VONC'd in turn.
he would have to pass a confidence vote in the first place which is a high hurdle. BJ remains until then
Unfortunatly not true. BJ stops being PM as soon as the Queen appoints a successor. That successor is PM from that point. No VoNC necessary.
He can forget any chance of becoming London Mayor if he votes yes .
Pretty confident he will vote yes, he was the biggest cheerleader for the May deal, which this essentially is 95% of. Agree it shafts him for mayoral hopes.
It's clear he'll vote yes.
Voting for the deal is clearly the obvious most rational choice. Voting against is all very well and to my mind a bit less rational, but you'll want to have a history of doing so or a very good reason indeed for switching.
I'd imagine almost all of the people that voted yes for May's deal at any point will be on side. The exception seems to be the DUP. That's very unfortunate, but they have for the first time over-reached. The Stormont veto is a reasonable step, and their wanting a bigger say in the veto isn't realistic. It's a pity if they can't be brought onside as they've played all this with a pretty straight bat.
Back to Stewart though. A certain 'yes' I'd have said.
It is. The provisions of the backstop are now permanent rather than temporary.
The backstop no longer applies at all in GB
That is being presented as a great achievement. It was the UK tory govt that asked for it to be extended from its original NI form to a UK wide one last year!
The SNP may be furious they cannot use No Deal as an excuse to give them a good chance of Yes in any indyref2, I assure you a majority of Scots are not and will be happy Boris has a Deal with the EU that avoids No Deal.
By avoiding a hard border in Ireland between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland Boris has also made it less likely Northern Ireland votes for a united Ireland.
The Boris Deal thus delivers Brexit and removes the GB backstop (and ends free movement in GB and enables our own trade deals) and makes the breakup of the UK less likely
Come now - the recent polling was for 50% for indy, and that was pre Brexit.
That was excluding Don't Knows most of whom would go No as Quebec 1995 showed, only No Deal got a slim Yes majority in that poll.
Plus of course Boris and Westminster will block indyref2 for the foreseeable future anyway
Possibly you are not allowing for the fact that indyref2 will not be like the previous one. In a normal indyref to vote no is to take the easy option of the status quo. This is no longer possible. The status quo has been gleefully and publicly trashed and the Scots are not getting the nice option that the NI people are.
If I were, say, an Edinburgh middle-class type working in the financial industry, or a coastal fisherman, I might well vote Yes this time.
Remember - polling got more votes for independence in the event of Brexit.
In fact, it is a point to bear in mind for NI as well, and Wales too.
And re denying a vote - I thought you wanted to invade Spain, not emulate it?
The Scots are avoiding No Deal which us fine enough for most of them given a majority now want to respect the Leave vote and deliver Brexit.
Wales voted Leave.
I am not emulating Spain as I am not yet proposing arresting and jailing Sturgeon and SNP leaders as Spain has arrested and jailed Catalan leaders, I am only saying indyref2 should be blocked for the foreseeable future
C an you point me to a reputable poll saying the Scots now want Brexit, please?
As for Spain, it happened because the central gmtd denied the poll in the first place.
Ahem. If I am very much mistaken, wasn't that the poll that gave four options (leave with Deal, leave no deal, remain, don't know) and then added the two Leaves together? Didn't will Jennings or somebody tweet saying that was not on?
If the commons passes it, will Nov 1st be the first day we are officially out?
If it all goes according to plan we'll only be in for 23 hours on the 31st
On the first day of BINO, the EU gave to me.....
Well I’m waiting to hear all the real actionable benefits that I’m about to receive on 1/11 the ones that were worth this shit fest for three years that are going to have any positive impact in my life. I can have a blue passport but is there anything else that actually means anything without resorting to ridiculous argument about sovereignty which actually is a load of bull because our voting system makes the majority of votes worthless.
Government will move one motion in the Commons on Saturday - for a deal. MPs sit from 0930am. Amendments can be tabled from tonight. There's no cut-off time, so things could run late.
Is there any practical difference if its written into UK law?
To change it back would only require an act of parliament, which presumably is the case anyway for changing workers right or environmental protections?
If the commons passes it, will Nov 1st be the first day we are officially out?
If it all goes according to plan we'll only be in for 23 hours on the 31st
On the first day of BINO, the EU gave to me.....
Well I’m waiting to hear all the real actionable benefits that I’m about to receive on 1/11 the ones that were worth this shit fest for three years that are going to have any positive impact in my life. I can have a blue passport but is there anything else that actually means anything without resorting to ridiculous argument about sovereignty which actually is a load of bull because our voting system makes the majority of votes worthless.
No , bugger all. The transition period at least gives you a bit longer to escape the capitalism on steroids hell hole the UK is going to turn into .
I’m busy sorting out my dual nationality , the transition means I have a bit more time .
The fact that 52% of Scots will now accept Brexit and respect the Leave vote even though a majority of them voted Remain is nonetheless a boost to Boris and a blow to the SNP
[snip]
That's stdill a loaded question that was asked. Some people see Brexit as a way station to independence and may have voted for it. As well as the sheer desperation and boredom of many people.
I'd like to see other poll figures for the basic figure of leave vs remain to confirm thge basic trend - the only other one I can recall is the Panelbase just over a year ago which had 59% remain
Government will move one motion in the Commons on Saturday - for a deal. MPs sit from 0930am. Amendments can be tabled from tonight. There's no cut-off time, so things could run late.
This word "late" is a killer. I frequently work until around 2am, so "late" for me is "when I start to faint". What time do these pampered preening popinjays consider "late"?
If the [Stormont] vote is negative, then the regulatory uncoupling will not happen for a further two years: 1 January 2027. During this two-year period the EU will work out how to protect the single market, ie another backstop.
Government will move one motion in the Commons on Saturday - for a deal. MPs sit from 0930am. Amendments can be tabled from tonight. There's no cut-off time, so things could run late.
This word "late" is a killer. I frequently work until around 2am, so "late" for me is "when I start to faint". What time do these pampered preening popinjays consider "late"?
when it's over. sessions finishing past midnight have happened recently and previously they were a lot more common
Government will move one motion in the Commons on Saturday - for a deal. MPs sit from 0930am. Amendments can be tabled from tonight. There's no cut-off time, so things could run late.
This word "late" is a killer. I frequently work until around 2am, so "late" for me is "when I start to faint". What time do these pampered preening popinjays consider "late"?
+1. To be fair, I am kind of impressed by Bercow managing 10+ hour sittings without needing to empty his bladder. But then part of me thinks if he doesnt trust his deputies to cover for 5 minutes he is not running a good team!
If the commons passes it, will Nov 1st be the first day we are officially out?
If it all goes according to plan we'll only be in for 23 hours on the 31st
On the first day of BINO, the EU gave to me.....
Well I’m waiting to hear all the real actionable benefits that I’m about to receive on 1/11 the ones that were worth this shit fest for three years that are going to have any positive impact in my life. I can have a blue passport but is there anything else that actually means anything without resorting to ridiculous argument about sovereignty which actually is a load of bull because our voting system makes the majority of votes worthless.
You have absolutely no right to talk about votes being worthless when you want to ignore the vote of 17.4 million people just because you lost.
Ok. Is there anywhere open after 5pm on a Saturday that will exchange sterling for Euros?
Lmao ! I think the vote is around 2pm . It’s not a full day .
Get a revolut card which supports multiple currencies and allows you to exchange between them in real time at better than bureau de change rates.
This has been suggested before. I tend not to use them because I'm rather a late adopter? So although I appreciate the gesture, I don't think it's something I can get done in time.
A technical question Johnson tried to put rejecting implementing any future EU regulations during the transition, did it survive? If so then farage’s goose is cooked because their paymasters have achieved what they wanted all along, not having to declare their off shore investments to UK tax authorities. It was always about rich people preserving their wealth and nothing else.
They’re not being written into law . The level playing field has been dumped from the WA and into the PD .
If Labour MPs want to vote for it then fine but they shouldn’t expect to last long as MPs , they’ll be deselected quickly afterwards .
And welcome to join the Tories if they wish to defect
That is a major u-turn from you! I thought you only wanted puritanical Brexiteers in Boris' party. Maybe a place for Mann, but Kinnock?
If Stephen Kinnock votes for the Boris Deal and defies Corbyn I expect we could find him a place in the Lords or a nice safe Tory seat in the Home Counties, any MP who votes for the Boris Deal is welcome in the Tory Party with me
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
They’re not being written into law . The level playing field has been dumped from the WA and into the PD .
If Labour MPs want to vote for it then fine but they shouldn’t expect to last long as MPs , they’ll be deselected quickly afterwards .
And welcome to join the Tories if they wish to defect
That is a major u-turn from you! I thought you only wanted puritanical Brexiteers in Boris' party. Maybe a place for Mann, but Kinnock?
If Stephen Kinnock votes for the Boris Deal and defies Corbyn I expect we could find him a place in the Lords or a nice safe Tory seat in the Home Counties, any MP who votes for the Boris Deal is welcome in the Tory Party with me
The SNP may be furious they cannot use No Deal as an excuse to give them a good chance of Yes in any indyref2, I assure you a majority of Scots are not and will be happy Boris has a Deal with the EU that avoids No Deal.
By avoiding a hard border in Ireland between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland Boris has also made it less likely Northern Ireland votes for a united Ireland.
The Boris Deal thus delivers Brexit and removes the GB backstop (and ends free movement in GB and enables our own trade deals) and makes the breakup of the UK less likely
Come now - the recent polling was for 50% for indy, and that was pre Brexit.
That was excluding Don't Knows most of whom would go No as Quebec 1995 showed, only No Deal got a slim Yes majority in that poll.
Plus of course Boris and Westminster will block indyref2 for the foreseeable future anyway
Possibly you are not allowing for the fact that indyref2 will not be like the previous one. In a normal indyref to vote no is to take the easy option of the status quo. This is no longer possible. The status quo has been gleefully and publicly trashed and the Scots are not getting the nice option that the NI people are.
If I were, say, an Edinburgh middle-class type working in the financial industry, or a coastal fisherman, I might well vote Yes this time.
Remember - polling got more votes for independence in the event of Brexit.
In fact, it is a point to bear in mind for NI as well, and Wales too.
And re denying a vote - I thought you wanted to invade Spain, not emulate it?
The Scots are avoiding No Deal which us fine enough for most of them given a majority now want to respect the Leave vote and deliver Brexit.
Wales voted Leave.
I am not emulating Spain as I am not yet proposing arresting and jailing Sturgeon and SNP leaders as Spain has arrested and jailed Catalan leaders, I am only saying indyref2 should be blocked for the foreseeable future
Keep Scotland in vassalage or the foreseeable future you mean.
They’re not being written into law . The level playing field has been dumped from the WA and into the PD .
If Labour MPs want to vote for it then fine but they shouldn’t expect to last long as MPs , they’ll be deselected quickly afterwards .
And welcome to join the Tories if they wish to defect
That is a major u-turn from you! I thought you only wanted puritanical Brexiteers in Boris' party. Maybe a place for Mann, but Kinnock?
If Stephen Kinnock votes for the Boris Deal and defies Corbyn I expect we could find him a place in the Lords or a nice safe Tory seat in the Home Counties, any MP who votes for the Boris Deal is welcome in the Tory Party with me
Not quite what his Dad had in mind when he said grind the bastards into the dust!
The fact that 52% of Scots will now accept Brexit and respect the Leave vote even though a majority of them voted Remain is nonetheless a boost to Boris and a blow to the SNP
Are you an idiot? Do you believe what you have just written or are you actively pushing misinformation.
They’re not being written into law . The level playing field has been dumped from the WA and into the PD .
If Labour MPs want to vote for it then fine but they shouldn’t expect to last long as MPs , they’ll be deselected quickly afterwards .
And welcome to join the Tories if they wish to defect
That is a major u-turn from you! I thought you only wanted puritanical Brexiteers in Boris' party. Maybe a place for Mann, but Kinnock?
If Stephen Kinnock votes for the Boris Deal and defies Corbyn I expect we could find him a place in the Lords or a nice safe Tory seat in the Home Counties, any MP who votes for the Boris Deal is welcome in the Tory Party with me
Not quite what his Dad had in mind when he said grind the bastards into the dust!
The look on Neil's face as his son becomes a Tory would also be priceless
They’re not being written into law . The level playing field has been dumped from the WA and into the PD .
If Labour MPs want to vote for it then fine but they shouldn’t expect to last long as MPs , they’ll be deselected quickly afterwards .
And welcome to join the Tories if they wish to defect
That is a major u-turn from you! I thought you only wanted puritanical Brexiteers in Boris' party. Maybe a place for Mann, but Kinnock?
If Stephen Kinnock votes for the Boris Deal and defies Corbyn I expect we could find him a place in the Lords or a nice safe Tory seat in the Home Counties, any MP who votes for the Boris Deal is welcome in the Tory Party with me
Not quite what his Dad had in mind when he said grind the bastards into the dust!
The fact that 52% of Scots will now accept Brexit and respect the Leave vote even though a majority of them voted Remain is nonetheless a boost to Boris and a blow to the SNP
Are you an idiot? Do you believe what you have just written or are you actively pushing misinformation.
Someone's touchy this evening...must be a difficult poll for a Nat, I quite understand
They’re not being written into law . The level playing field has been dumped from the WA and into the PD .
If Labour MPs want to vote for it then fine but they shouldn’t expect to last long as MPs , they’ll be deselected quickly afterwards .
And welcome to join the Tories if they wish to defect
That is a major u-turn from you! I thought you only wanted puritanical Brexiteers in Boris' party. Maybe a place for Mann, but Kinnock?
If Stephen Kinnock votes for the Boris Deal and defies Corbyn I expect we could find him a place in the Lords or a nice safe Tory seat in the Home Counties, any MP who votes for the Boris Deal is welcome in the Tory Party with me
Not quite what his Dad had in mind when he said grind the bastards into the dust!
That just sums up the Tory approach to this, bribe enough people to betray their principles and we can get this through.
They’re not being written into law . The level playing field has been dumped from the WA and into the PD .
If Labour MPs want to vote for it then fine but they shouldn’t expect to last long as MPs , they’ll be deselected quickly afterwards .
And welcome to join the Tories if they wish to defect
That is a major u-turn from you! I thought you only wanted puritanical Brexiteers in Boris' party. Maybe a place for Mann, but Kinnock?
If Stephen Kinnock votes for the Boris Deal and defies Corbyn I expect we could find him a place in the Lords or a nice safe Tory seat in the Home Counties, any MP who votes for the Boris Deal is welcome in the Tory Party with me
Not quite what his Dad had in mind when he said grind the bastards into the dust!
I think you'll have Grieve Gauke Greening Bebb against, the others may vote for, if the ERG are on board bar a few holdouts he might need ca 18 indies and labour for a deal..........
I reckon quite a few Labour abstentions.....
Yes, if they are willing to give up being Labour MPs and future candidature.
Some gave up being Tory MPs over no deal, people with higher profiles than most. Some few other labour mps will probably be similarly bold. But not many.
How many exactly will, of course, remain to be seen.
Ironically, it was ardent Brexiteers who denounced the channels of communication between the EU Taskforce and UK political actors as "treasonous". These channels will now politely convey one single message to everyone "Please vote for the only deal on the table. Period".
Some may develop, in the heat of the moment, a feeling of being thrown under a bus. The Scots may be the ones to do so with the most legitimacy, but they will still have time until the end of the transition period to get their act together and come to a decision.
The tactic seems to be to point at Boris and say he’s given up everything, and the EU nothing
Bitter crumbs of comfort taste better than humble pie
All credit to Boris. He’s played a blinder, the EU did what they said they wouldn’t do and open up the WA and change it. This was all down to the strong and brilliant and charismatic negotiation
They opened it up and changed it when they had a vain and panicking UK government surrendering. They opened it changed it to add the line British Prime minister picks up the DUP and throws them under a bus.
Go on, say that’s not true
Cummings. LOL he didn’t wargame this, they’ll freewheeling hoping something comes up to save them. They were so desperate for a deal to avoid asking for extension, they sold the union out.
Is there any practical difference if its written into UK law?
To change it back would only require an act of parliament, which presumably is the case anyway for changing workers right or environmental protections?
Am I missing something?
It’s mostly symbolic, but even a Tory Government would struggle, in future, to repeal something explicitly stated to be about minimum standards on worker’s rights and the environment.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
The fact that 52% of Scots will now accept Brexit and respect the Leave vote even though a majority of them voted Remain is nonetheless a boost to Boris and a blow to the SNP
Are you an idiot? Do you believe what you have just written or are you actively pushing misinformation.
Someone's touchy this evening...must be a difficult poll for a Nat, I quite understand
When has it ever been the SNP's argument that the Scottish people do not accept Brexit being implemented?
I'll save you time. It has never been the argument.
The SNP even layed out what form of Brexit it would support.
Not not know that you would have to be a moron. A fucking imbecile.
They’re not being written into law . The level playing field has been dumped from the WA and into the PD .
If Labour MPs want to vote for it then fine but they shouldn’t expect to last long as MPs , they’ll be deselected quickly afterwards .
And welcome to join the Tories if they wish to defect
That is a major u-turn from you! I thought you only wanted puritanical Brexiteers in Boris' party. Maybe a place for Mann, but Kinnock?
If Stephen Kinnock votes for the Boris Deal and defies Corbyn I expect we could find him a place in the Lords or a nice safe Tory seat in the Home Counties, any MP who votes for the Boris Deal is welcome in the Tory Party with me
Not quite what his Dad had in mind when he said grind the bastards into the dust!
That just sums up the Tory approach to this, bribe enough people to betray their principles and we can get this through.
Or encourage those to hold on to their principles and not be left to the dogs for doing so.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
The fact that 52% of Scots will now accept Brexit and respect the Leave vote even though a majority of them voted Remain is nonetheless a boost to Boris and a blow to the SNP
Are you an idiot? Do you believe what you have just written or are you actively pushing misinformation.
Someone's touchy this evening...must be a difficult poll for a Nat, I quite understand
When has it ever been the SNP's argument that the Scottish people do not accept Brexit being implemented?
I'll save you time. It has never been the argument.
The SNP even layed out what form of Brexit it would support.
Not not know that you would have to be a moron. A fucking imbecile.
The SNP's position has always been Brexit of any form makes independence more likely, this poll did not even ask about the SNP's preferred SM and CU BINO Brexit, just straight Brexit and most Scots still supported respecting the Leave vote
The tactic seems to be to point at Boris and say he’s given up everything, and the EU nothing
Bitter crumbs of comfort taste better than humble pie
All credit to Boris. He’s played a blinder, the EU did what they said they wouldn’t do and open up the WA and change it. This was all down to the strong and brilliant and charismatic negotiation
They opened it up and changed it when they had a vain and panicking UK government surrendering. They opened it changed it to add the line British Prime minister picks up the DUP and throws them under a bus.
Go on, say that’s not true
Cummings. LOL he didn’t wargame this, they’ll freewheeling hoping something comes up to save them. They were so desperate for a deal to avoid asking for extension, they sold the union out.
I do feel sorry for Theresa. If she hadn’t got hung up on the integrity of the UK she could have had a border in the Irish Sea and delivered Brexit. I’m sure she thought she was acting in accordance with the soul of the Tory party, but as we now see no one would have given a stuff.
The Times has this quote. Not sure if it's selective. “I am convinced it will. If it doesn’t there will be no prolongation.”
That sounds final. No more extensions, it's this deal or "fuck off, we're not doing this again."
I really hope it is that and they follow through if Labour and the remainer MPs vote the deal down. I could see an emergency session on the 31st to pass the deal.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
Er,
Soft or no border with RoI and a lot of congruence with EU: check.
Hardish border with GB: check.
Sounds a lot like a not very baby but actially quite grown-up step towards reunification?
Labour deselecting MPs in Brexit areas who vote for the deal could cost them seats at the next election- Rother Valley, Great Grimsby, Stoke on Trent North, Crewe and Nantwich etc.- all marginals.
If the commons passes it, will Nov 1st be the first day we are officially out?
If it all goes according to plan we'll only be in for 23 hours on the 31st
On the first day of BINO, the EU gave to me.....
Well I’m waiting to hear all the real actionable benefits that I’m about to receive on 1/11 the ones that were worth this shit fest for three years that are going to have any positive impact in my life. I can have a blue passport but is there anything else that actually means anything without resorting to ridiculous argument about sovereignty which actually is a load of bull because our voting system makes the majority of votes worthless.
You have absolutely no right to talk about votes being worthless when you want to ignore the vote of 17.4 million people just because you lost.
I have every right to talk about an election process that is a disgrace, I also have every right to call out a leave vote that was predicated on lies and half truths. Why should I have to accept, without question, what is being inflicted on me when there are no discernible benefits from it and will, over time, actually harm the people who voted for it. I will continue to say leaving is the worst thing the UK has ever done and is only actually getting public support because they think they have had enough. Let’s see how many of the 17.4 million can be arsed getting off the sofa for a second referendum if they think this is such a brilliant idea.
It is. The provisions of the backstop are now permanent rather than temporary.
The backstop no longer applies at all in GB
That is being presented as a great achievement. It was the UK tory govt that asked for it to be extended from its original NI form to a UK wide one last year!
The tactic seems to be to point at Boris and say he’s given up everything, and the EU nothing
Bitter crumbs of comfort taste better than humble pie
All credit to Boris. He’s played a blinder, the EU did what they said they wouldn’t do and open up the WA and change it. This was all down to the strong and brilliant and charismatic negotiation
They opened it up and changed it when they had a vain and panicking UK government surrendering. They opened it changed it to add the line British Prime minister picks up the DUP and throws them under a bus.
Go on, say that’s not true
Cummings. LOL he didn’t wargame this, they’ll freewheeling hoping something comes up to save them. They were so desperate for a deal to avoid asking for extension, they sold the union out.
The fact that 52% of Scots will now accept Brexit and respect the Leave vote even though a majority of them voted Remain is nonetheless a boost to Boris and a blow to the SNP
Are you an idiot? Do you believe what you have just written or are you actively pushing misinformation.
Someone's touchy this evening...must be a difficult poll for a Nat, I quite understand
When has it ever been the SNP's argument that the Scottish people do not accept Brexit being implemented?
I'll save you time. It has never been the argument.
The SNP even layed out what form of Brexit it would support.
Not not know that you would have to be a moron. A fucking imbecile.
The SNP's position has always been Brexit of any form makes independence more likely, this poll did not even ask about the SNP's preferred SM and CU BINO Brexit, just straight Brexit and most Scots still supported respecting the Leave vote
Pathetic, transparent, contemptible goal post shift.
Just admit you were wrong and move on.
You'd be a lot more bearable if you could admit to being wrong.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
I do feel sorry for Theresa. If she hadn’t got hung up on the integrity of the UK she could have had a border in the Irish Sea and delivered Brexit. I’m sure she thought she was acting in accordance with the soul of the Tory party, but as we now see no one would have given a stuff.
It's always been clear that the Conservative and Unionist party as a whole has no affection for the UK. It's a surprise that the same thing applies to the vast majority of the party's MPs, too. English nationalists will English nationalist, though. I guess the DUP has just found that out!
So Matt Goodwin asked me for my prediction for Saturday's vote.
I'm going for a government defeat that is smaller than MV3.
All great people are predicting that.
Every Labour MP who say they may back the deal always add a caveat to cover themselves when they don’t. Labour support will be comfortably in single figures. I expect the ERG to back the DUP too. The line they will use is the negotiation looked promising until too much was surrendered at the last minute to get it over the line. It will lose by 40+ the margin of likely defeat will grow in the coming days.
Where does that leave us.
what happened the last time someone outed their idea of Brexit and nailed themselves to a deal? They have power, promise, magic, Its like a big balloon being punctured, the air just slowly quietly farts out from here. Not Boris day of triumph, today is the day that haunts him, delivering brexit, winning a commons majority all gone now.
I do feel sorry for Theresa. If she hadn’t got hung up on the integrity of the UK she could have had a border in the Irish Sea and delivered Brexit. I’m sure she thought she was acting in accordance with the soul of the Tory party, but as we now see no one would have given a stuff.
A certain A Johnson might have cynically seen it as an opportunity for personal advancement.....Brexiteers didnt and dont care about the detail, more the people involved and the optics.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
They opened it changed it to add the line British Prime minister picks up the DUP and throws them under a bus.
Go on, say that’s not true
I’ll say it’s not true.
What they’ve done is taken it back to the deal they put forward as their best case scenario in 2017, before May extracted several important concessions.
And yet the Brexiteers have not looked at it closely enough to see it. Nor do they understand that this means that the EU will no longer be interested in negotiating a free trade deal unless we stay in CAP, CFP, etc because they now have all the leverage they need to walk away, instead of us ending up half in, half out by default.
I bet Barnier can’t believe his luck.
Admittedly, one bright spot is that the European Parliament will probably raise no objections whereas I was always nervous somebody with half a brain would spot what the EU had given away before.
So Matt Goodwin asked me for my prediction for Saturday's vote.
I'm going for a government defeat that is smaller than MV3.
All great people are predicting that.
Every Labour MP who say they may back the deal always add a caveat to cover themselves when they don’t. Labour support will be comfortably in single figures. I expect the ERG to back the DUP too. The line they will use is the negotiation looked promising until too much was surrendered at the last minute to get it over the line. It will lose by 40+ the margin of likely defeat will grow in the coming days.
Where does that leave us.
The Liberal Democrat’s on 40% as furious Remainers rally behind them.
If the commons passes it, will Nov 1st be the first day we are officially out?
If it all goes according to plan we'll only be in for 23 hours on the 31st
On the first day of BINO, the EU gave to me.....
Well I’m waiting to hear all the real actionable benefits that I’m about to receive on 1/11 the ones that were worth this shit fest for three years that are going to have any positive impact in my life. I can have a blue passport but is there anything else that actually means anything without resorting to ridiculous argument about sovereignty which actually is a load of bull because our voting system makes the majority of votes worthless.
You have absolutely no right to talk about votes being worthless when you want to ignore the vote of 17.4 million people just because you lost.
I have every right to talk about an election process that is a disgrace, I also have every right to call out a leave vote that was predicated on lies and half truths. Why should I have to accept, without question, what is being inflicted on me when there are no discernible benefits from it and will, over time, actually harm the people who voted for it. I will continue to say leaving is the worst thing the UK has ever done and is only actually getting public support because they think they have had enough. Let’s see how many of the 17.4 million can be arsed getting off the sofa for a second referendum if they think this is such a brilliant idea.
Blah blah blah. You are just looking for excuses to ignore a democratic vote.
And a losers revote will be boycotted by anyone who actually believes in democracy. Which of course doesn't include you.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
Despite having been there this week you still don't understand the dynamics of this.
What has just happened is that the two entities on the island of Ireland have become more detached from the mainland while remaining aligned with each other.
Read through your Conservative Party email from today. It explicitly separates the mainland from NI.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
Er,
Soft or no border with RoI and a lot of congruence with EU: check.
Hardish border with GB: check.
Sounds a lot like a not very baby but actially quite grown-up step towards reunification?
Yes, I was being ironic! Varadker has layed an absolute blinder and created a de facto single Irish economic area forever. A political union will follow soon enough. Its the direction of travel in Northern Ireland demographically and, crucially, in the former Conservative and Unionist Party.
The Times has this quote. Not sure if it's selective. “I am convinced it will. If it doesn’t there will be no prolongation.”
That sounds final. No more extensions, it's this deal or "fuck off, we're not doing this again."
I really hope it is that and they follow through if Labour and the remainer MPs vote the deal down. I could see an emergency session on the 31st to pass the deal.
If they have any sense they will revoke, why go for something that’s worse than what we have already.
I do feel sorry for Theresa. If she hadn’t got hung up on the integrity of the UK she could have had a border in the Irish Sea and delivered Brexit. I’m sure she thought she was acting in accordance with the soul of the Tory party, but as we now see no one would have given a stuff.
In one week Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of Irish reunificaiton than Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the IRA managed in 40 years. He should get his own mural!
Completely wrong, Boris has actually got a Deal that avoids the hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland which would have been most likely to see Northern Irish voters vote for a united Ireland
And that, of course, is why the DUP is so keen on it!
I prefer what the polls of Northern Ireland voters say rather than what the DUP think (though the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries would likely declare UDI for Antrim rather than accept a united Ireland vote in Northern Ireland anyway)
Don't ever change!
Isn’t this all just clearing the path for Boris’ favoured option of no deal?
The fact that 52% of Scots will now accept Brexit and respect the Leave vote even though a majority of them voted Remain is nonetheless a boost to Boris and a blow to the SNP
Are you an idiot? Do you believe what you have just written or are you actively pushing misinformation.
Someone's touchy this evening...must be a difficult poll for a Nat, I quite understand
When has it ever been the SNP's argument that the Scottish people do not accept Brexit being implemented?
I'll save you time. It has never been the argument.
The SNP even layed out what form of Brexit it would support.
Not not know that you would have to be a moron. A fucking imbecile.
The SNP's position has always been Brexit of any form makes independence more likely, this poll did not even ask about the SNP's preferred SM and CU BINO Brexit, just straight Brexit and most Scots still supported respecting the Leave vote
Pathetic, transparent, contemptible goal post shift.
Just admit you were wrong and move on.
You'd be a lot more bearable if you could admit to being wrong.
There is nothing to admit I was wrong for, so of course I will not do so.
As the poll shows most Scots now accept Brexit should be delivered
The tactic seems to be to point at Boris and say he’s given up everything, and the EU nothing
Bitter crumbs of comfort taste better than humble pie
All credit to Boris. He’s played a blinder, the EU did what they said they wouldn’t do and open up the WA and change it. This was all down to the strong and brilliant and charismatic negotiation
They opened it up and changed it when they had a vain and panicking UK government surrendering. They opened it changed it to add the line British Prime minister picks up the DUP and throws them under a bus.
Go on, say that’s not true
Cummings. LOL he didn’t wargame this, they’ll freewheeling hoping something comes up to save them. They were so desperate for a deal to avoid asking for extension, they sold the union out.
A surrender deal, born to vanity and weakness
(R)
What does (R) mean, please? Just out of interest.
It was the symbol to show a programme was a repeat in the old tv listings.
Comments
I detest Brexit but would say the UK should leave now but if there’s a new vote I’d vote Remain .
Voting for the deal is clearly the obvious most rational choice. Voting against is all very well and to my mind a bit less rational, but you'll want to have a history of doing so or a very good reason indeed for switching.
I'd imagine almost all of the people that voted yes for May's deal at any point will be on side. The exception seems to be the DUP. That's very unfortunate, but they have for the first time over-reached. The Stormont veto is a reasonable step, and their wanting a bigger say in the veto isn't realistic. It's a pity if they can't be brought onside as they've played all this with a pretty straight bat.
Back to Stewart though. A certain 'yes' I'd have said.
If Labour MPs want to vote for it then fine but they shouldn’t expect to last long as MPs , they’ll be deselected quickly afterwards .
To change it back would only require an act of parliament, which presumably is the case anyway for changing workers right or environmental protections?
Am I missing something?
I'm going for a government defeat that is smaller than MV3.
I’m busy sorting out my dual nationality , the transition means I have a bit more time .
2. It was not penned by Mrs May
3. The backstop is called something else.
4. The ERG are on board
5. The DUP are not.
That's stdill a loaded question that was asked. Some people see Brexit as a way station to independence and may have voted for it. As well as the sheer desperation and boredom of many people.
I'd like to see other poll figures for the basic figure of leave vs remain to confirm thge basic trend - the only other one I can recall is the Panelbase just over a year ago which had 59% remain
https://wingsoverscotland.com/summer-cleaning/
But I am sure I saw one which had an increase in the remain vote ...
However, gtiven this is turning out to be a much nastier deal than Ms May's, stil plenty of water to come under the bridge.
Nice alliteration
If the [Stormont] vote is negative, then the regulatory uncoupling will not happen for a further two years: 1 January 2027. During this two-year period the EU will work out how to protect the single market, ie another backstop.
Bitter crumbs of comfort taste better than humble pie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=jh8ktNsie0I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TOgB3Smvro
and there was this too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=jh8ktNsie0I
Ironically, it was ardent Brexiteers who denounced the channels of communication between the EU Taskforce and UK political actors as "treasonous". These channels will now politely convey one single message to everyone "Please vote for the only deal on the table. Period".
Some may develop, in the heat of the moment, a feeling of being thrown under a bus. The Scots may be the ones to do so with the most legitimacy, but they will still have time until the end of the transition period to get their act together and come to a decision.
They opened it up and changed it when they had a vain and panicking UK government surrendering. They opened it changed it to add the line British Prime minister picks up the DUP and throws them under a bus.
Go on, say that’s not true
Cummings. LOL he didn’t wargame this, they’ll freewheeling hoping something comes up to save them. They were so desperate for a deal to avoid asking for extension, they sold the union out.
A surrender deal, born to vanity and weakness
I'll save you time. It has never been the argument.
The SNP even layed out what form of Brexit it would support.
Not not know that you would have to be a moron. A fucking imbecile.
A GE in 2019 is 2.88
That sounds final. No more extensions, it's this deal or "fuck off, we're not doing this again."
I really hope it is that and they follow through if Labour and the remainer MPs vote the deal down. I could see an emergency session on the 31st to pass the deal.
Soft or no border with RoI and a lot of congruence with EU: check.
Hardish border with GB: check.
Sounds a lot like a not very baby but actially quite grown-up step towards reunification?
I have every right to talk about an election process that is a disgrace, I also have every right to call out a leave vote that was predicated on lies and half truths. Why should I have to accept, without question, what is being inflicted on me when there are no discernible benefits from it and will, over time, actually harm the people who voted for it. I will continue to say leaving is the worst thing the UK has ever done and is only actually getting public support because they think they have had enough. Let’s see how many of the 17.4 million can be arsed getting off the sofa for a second referendum if they think this is such a brilliant idea.
How can Leave not be fav over GE?
Just admit you were wrong and move on.
You'd be a lot more bearable if you could admit to being wrong.
Where does that leave us.
what happened the last time someone outed their idea of Brexit and nailed themselves to a deal? They have power, promise, magic, Its like a big balloon being punctured, the air just slowly quietly farts out from here. Not Boris day of triumph, today is the day that haunts him, delivering brexit, winning a commons majority all gone now.
What they’ve done is taken it back to the deal they put forward as their best case scenario in 2017, before May extracted several important concessions.
And yet the Brexiteers have not looked at it closely enough to see it. Nor do they understand that this means that the EU will no longer be interested in negotiating a free trade deal unless we stay in CAP, CFP, etc because they now have all the leverage they need to walk away, instead of us ending up half in, half out by default.
I bet Barnier can’t believe his luck.
Admittedly, one bright spot is that the European Parliament will probably raise no objections whereas I was always nervous somebody with half a brain would spot what the EU had given away before.
And a losers revote will be boycotted by anyone who actually believes in democracy. Which of course doesn't include you.
What has just happened is that the two entities on the island of Ireland have become more detached from the mainland while remaining aligned with each other.
Read through your Conservative Party email from today. It explicitly separates the mainland from NI.
Does the Tory party have a soul?
Because of the strong possibility of a VONC then GE
As the poll shows most Scots now accept Brexit should be delivered