If someone successfully called for a VoNC against the govt in the two weeks before 12th April, would that effectively paralyze parliament and lead to No Deal?
What has the number got todo with the majority. How do we know that any are conservative voter who will vote against their MP?
How do we know anybody signing is over 18?
You have to tick a box. No really. All we have really learnt is that a very large number of people don’t want to Brexit. I could have told you that without the petition
Are we three or two episodes from the end of this season?
Apparently there will be some spin-off shows. From the NYT: "Even though Mr. Mueller's report is complete, some aspects of his inquiry remain active and may be overseen by the same prosecutors once they are reassigned to their old jobs within the Justice Department. For instance, recently filed court documents suggest that investigators are still examining why the former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort turned over campaign polling data in 2016 to a Russian associate whom prosecutors said was tied to Russian intelligence."
One question is what he has to say about Nigel Farage.
What on earth makes you think Farage will even be mentioned?
What has the number got todo with the majority. How do we know that any are conservative voter who will vote against their MP?
How do we know anybody signing is over 18?
You have to tick a box. No really. All we have really learnt is that a very large number of people don’t want to Brexit. I could have told you that without the petition
There were 16m of them three years ago. Where have the other 13m gone?
I might have more respect for your opinion if you took your remainiac blinkers off, and contemplate (in the words of the bible) "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"
When I saw you claim "The paranoia about the motives of Remain supporters was self-fulfilling: there are only so many times that you can be told that you are a traitor or a quisling before you decide that you might as well act as a fifth columnist if you’re going to be treated as one." it was so ridiculous, I laughed aloud.
Perhaps you should refresh your memory, and look at the comment sections of articles in The Guardian and The Independent articles on the 24th of June 2016. You will see a near-continuous stream-of-conciousness vituperative insults. (Which have continued, with no reduction in their hatred, ever since.) Where was the attempt to mend fences on the remainiac side? Then, and since, it has been prominent only by it's absence from any remainiac position.
I suggest you look at your self-awarded halo. It doesn't hide the feet of clay or the devil's horns.
That's bollocks. I watched the speech live in its entirety. I have never dodged a penny in tax. I heame they never imagined they'd hear a British PM say something like that. It was a watershed moment for many (not me, I've had May's number for years).
But we also value something else: the spirit of citizenship.
T An international company that treats tax laws as an optional extra…
A household name that refuses to work with the authorities even to fight terrorism…
A director who takes out massive dividends while knowing that the company pension is about to go bust…
I’m putting you on warning. This can’t go on anymore.
A change has got to come. And this party – the Conservative Party – is going to make that change.
You thought that was aimed at you?
I believe I am a citizen of the world. So yes.
First time I've ever seen the full text. It's obscene.
Genuine question: which bit?
The first 4 paragraphs are, IMV, fairly close to apple pie.
The 4 specific examples seem self-evidently examples of bad behaviour
It’s only paragraphs 5 & 6 that could be remotely controversial
Until this evening I had never really understood what she meant by 'citizens of the world' but never really thought about it much. Seemed to me it could be taken one of two ways and I didn't know which but wasn't very interested. Now I see it in context it reads as an insult. How dare she imply I don't know the meaning of citizenship! I value it highly, and wish we emphasised it more in our culture in much the way I know Americans and Canadians do. This does not however prevent me from embracing other cultures, and being inclusive and international in my outlook. On the contrary, my grounding in British culture makes it easier for me to engage positively with others beyond this country. In that respect I regard myself as both a citizen of the world as well as of the UK. Far from it being an insult, I would regard it as a compliment.
This is clearly not what she had in mind , however, and the distance between us could not be greater. Now that I have seen the context, I find her use of the phrase squalid, insular, petty, narrow-minded - in short, obscene. But chacun a son gout, Charles.
Bonsoir.
She was using it to describe people who take the benefits of living in a community and disclaim the duties that come with it.
I don’t think you are like that.
Someone grounded in U.K. culture but with a healthy appreciation for others is a valuable member of society and absolutely not who she was referring to
But we also value something else: the spirit of citizenship.
T An international company that treats tax laws as an optional extra…
A household name that refuses to work with the authorities even to fight terrorism…
A director who takes out massive dividends while knowing that the company pension is about to go bust…
I’m putting you on warning. This can’t go on anymore.
A change has got to come. And this party – the Conservative Party – is going to make that change.
You thought that was aimed at you?
I believe I am a citizen of the world. So yes.
First time I've ever seen the full text. It's obscene.
Genuine question: which bit?
The first 4 paragraphs are, IMV, fairly close to apple pie.
The 4 specific examples seem self-evidently examples of bad behaviour
It’s only paragraphs 5 & 6 that could be remotely controversial
Until this evening I had never really understood what she meant by 'citizens of the world' but never really thought about it much. Seemed to me it could be taken one of two ways and I didn't know which but wasn't very interested. Now I see it in context it reads as an insult. How dare she imply I don't know the meaning of citizenship! I value it highly, and wish we emphasised it more in our culture in much the way I know Americans and Canadians do. This does not however prevent me from embracing other cultures, and being inclusive and international in my outlook. On the contrary, my grounding in British culture makes it easier for me to engage positively with others beyond this country. In that respect I regard myself as both a citizen of the world as well as of the UK. Far from it being an insult, I would regard it as a compliment.
This is clearly not what she had in mind , however, and the distance between us could not be greater. Now that I have seen the context, I find her use of the phrase squalid, insular, petty, narrow-minded - in short, obscene. But chacun a son gout, Charles.
Bonsoir.
She was using it to describe people who take the benefits of living in a community and disclaim the duties that come with it.
I don’t think you are like that.
Someone grounded in U.K. culture but with a healthy appreciation for others is a valuable member of society and absolutely not who she was referring to
Thanks Charles but I know when I am being insulted, and I know a dog whistle when I hear one.
A thought - the only way May's Deal can pass is metaphorically 'one minute after midnight'.
In real terms a couple of weeks after a No Deal event.
If things go badly after a No Deal the Leaver MPs would then swing behind May's Deal to stave off disaster.
If things don't go badly after a No Deal the Remainer MPs would then swing behind May's Deal to stave off success.
You can't pass TMay's Deal after a No Deal event. Once you've left, getting a similar agreement would mean passing a treaty though the legislatures of all 27 member states.
We are not leaving on the 29th. That is not the law, in the UK or the EU.
But the UK law currently says the 1972 Act is repealed and we bugger off at 11pm next Friday. That was drawn from EU law, but has to be changed by a minister under an SI passed by both Houses. It will be done but hasn’t yet.
Doesn't it still have to be changed on the UK side?
Yes, it still has to be changed. However, failing to change it wouldn't result in Britain leaving the EU, it would result in it having all kinds of broken laws that assumed it had left the EU when it hadn't.
I may be wrong but I think the EU Withdrawal Act, which hasn't yet got the memo about Exit Day changing, automatically repeals that on Exit Day.
Only. If. Section. One. Is. COMMENCED.
Which Minister has the right to commence it?
Just asking in case it's the Brexit Secretary who voted against his own motion to delay Brexit, but for some mysterious reason didn't feel the need to resign as a result. Only, the ERG's claim to have a secret plan to stop delay being implemented may be piss and wind, but if it isn't, could it be that?
Are we three or two episodes from the end of this season?
Apparently there will be some spin-off shows. From the NYT: "Even though Mr. Mueller's report is complete, some aspects of his inquiry remain active and may be overseen by the same prosecutors once they are reassigned to their old jobs within the Justice Department. For instance, recently filed court documents suggest that investigators are still examining why the former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort turned over campaign polling data in 2016 to a Russian associate whom prosecutors said was tied to Russian intelligence."
One question is what he has to say about Nigel Farage.
What on earth makes you think Farage will even be mentioned?
A thought - the only way May's Deal can pass is metaphorically 'one minute after midnight'.
In real terms a couple of weeks after a No Deal event.
If things go badly after a No Deal the Leaver MPs would then swing behind May's Deal to stave off disaster.
If things don't go badly after a No Deal the Remainer MPs would then swing behind May's Deal to stave off success.
You can't pass TMay's Deal after a No Deal event. Once you've left, getting a similar agreement would mean passing a treaty though the legislatures of all 27 member states.
I know.
We'll only want May's Deal when we can no longer have it.
That's bollocks. I watched the speech live in its entirety. I have never dodged a penny in tax. I heame they never imagined they'd hear a British PM say something like that. It was a watershed moment for many (not me, I've had May's number for years).
But we also value something else: the spirit of citizenship.
T An international company that treats tax laws as an optional extra…
A household name that refuses to work with the authorities even to fight terrorism…
A director who takes out massive dividends while knowing that the company pension is about to go bust…
I’m putting you on warning. This can’t go on anymore.
A change has got to come. And this party – the Conservative Party – is going to make that change.
You thought that was aimed at you?
I believe I am a citizen of the world. So yes.
First time I've ever seen the full text. It's obscene.
Genuine question: which bit?
The first 4 paragraphs are, IMV, fairly close to apple pie.
The 4 specific examples seem self-evidently examples of bad behaviour
It’s only paragraphs 5 & 6 that could be remotely controversial
This is clearly not what she had in mind , however, and the distance between us could not be greater. Now that I have seen the context, I find her use of the phrase squalid, insular, petty, narrow-minded - in short, obscene. But chacun a son gout, Charles.
Bonsoir.
She was using it to describe people who take the benefits of living in a community and disclaim the duties that come with it.
I don’t think you are like that.
Someone grounded in U.K. culture but with a healthy appreciation for others is a valuable member of society and absolutely not who she was referring to
She was describing cosmopolitanism as a negative. This, pejorative sense of cosmopolitanism adopted by Mrs May originated in 19th century German antisemitic tropes - the “rootless Jew” was seen as a “cosmopolitan” citizen from “nowhere”, the “international” financier that does not contribute. She knows her audience, knew they would get it. It was utterly disgraceful on multiple levels.
But we also value something else: the spirit of citizenship.
T An international company that treats tax laws as an optional extra…
A household name that refuses to work with the authorities even to fight terrorism…
A director who takes out massive dividends while knowing that the company pension is about to go bust…
I’m putting you on warning. This can’t go on anymore.
A change has got to come. And this party – the Conservative Party – is going to make that change.
You thought that was aimed at you?
I believe I am a citizen of the world. So yes.
First time I've ever seen the full text. It's obscene.
Genuine question: which bit?
The first 4 paragraphs are, IMV, fairly close to apple pie.
The 4 specific examples seem self-evidently examples of bad behaviour
It’s only paragraphs 5 & 6 that could be remotely controversial
Until this evening I had never really understood what she meant by 'citizens of the world' but never really thought about it much. Seemed to me it could be taken one of two ways and I didn't know which but wasn't very interested. Now I see it in context it reads as an insult. How dare she imply I don't know the meaning of citizenship! I value it highly, and wish we emphasised it more in our culture in much the way I know Americans and Canadians do. This does not however prevent me from embracing other cultures, and being inclusive and international in my outlook. On the contrary, my grounding in British culture makes it easier for me to engage positively with others beyond this country. In that respect I regard myself as both a citizen of the world as well as of the UK. Far from it being an insult, I would regard it as a compliment.
This is clearly not what she had in mind , however, and the distance between us could not be greater. Now that I have seen the context, I find her use of the phrase squalid, insular, petty, narrow-minded - in short, obscene. But chacun a son gout, Charles.
Bonsoir.
She was using it to describe people who take the benefits of living in a community and disclaim the duties that come with it.
I don’t think you are like that.
Someone grounded in U.K. culture but with a healthy appreciation for others is a valuable member of society and absolutely not who she was referring to
Thanks Charles but I know when I am being insulted, and I know a dog whistle when I hear one.
I might have more respect for your opinion if you took your remainiac blinkers off, and contemplate (in the words of the bible) "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"
When I saw you claim "The paranoia about the motives of Remain supporters was self-fulfilling: there are only so many times that you can be told that you are a traitor or a quisling before you decide that you might as well act as a fifth columnist if you’re going to be treated as one." it was so ridiculous, I laughed aloud.
Perhaps you should refresh your memory, and look at the comment sections of articles in The Guardian and The Independent articles on the 24th of June 2016. You will see a near-continuous stream-of-conciousness vituperative insults. (Which have continued, with no reduction in their hatred, ever since.) Where was the attempt to mend fences on the remainiac side? Then, and since, it has been prominent only by it's absence from any remainiac position.
I suggest you look at your self-awarded halo. It doesn't hide the feet of clay or the devil's horns.
Devil’s horns? Blimey.
And yet again, I point out that this is a problem for the winners. You want Brexit to work. You’ve done everything you can to ensure it won’t.
But we also value something else: the spirit of citizenship.
T An international company that treats tax laws as an optional extra…
A household name that refuses to work with the authorities even to fight terrorism…
A director who takes out massive dividends while knowing that the company pension is about to go bust…
I’m putting you on warning. This can’t go on anymore.
A change has got to come. And this party – the Conservative Party – is going to make that change.
You thought that was aimed at you?
I believe I am a citizen of the world. So yes.
First time I've ever seen the full text. It's obscene.
Genuine question: which bit?
The first 4 paragraphs are, IMV, fairly close to apple pie.
The 4 specific examples seem self-evidently examples of bad behaviour
It’s only paragraphs 5 & 6 that could be remotely controversial
This is clearly not what she had in mind , however, and the distance between us could not be greater. Now that I have seen the context, I find her use of the phrase squalid, insular, petty, narrow-minded - in short, obscene. But chacun a son gout, Charles.
Bonsoir.
She was using it to describe people who take the benefits of living in a community and disclaim the duties that come with it.
I don’t think you are like that.
Someone grounded in U.K. culture but with a healthy appreciation for others is a valuable member of society and absolutely not who she was referring to
Thanks Charles but I know when I am being insulted, and I know a dog whistle when I hear one.
This was also in the speech:
They find your patriotism distasteful, your concerns about immigration parochial, your views about crime illiberal, your attachment to your job security inconvenient.
They find the fact that more than seventeen million voters decided to leave the European Union simply bewildering.
Because if you’re well off and comfortable, Britain is a different country and these concerns are not your concerns.
I might have more respect for your opinion if you took your remainiac blinkers off, and contemplate (in the words of the bible) "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"
When I saw you claim "The paranoia about the motives of Remain supporters was self-fulfilling: there are only so many times that you can be told that you are a traitor or a quisling before you decide that you might as well act as a fifth columnist if you’re going to be treated as one." it was so ridiculous, I laughed aloud.
Perhaps you should refresh your memory, and look at the comment sections of articles in The Guardian and The Independent articles on the 24th of June 2016. You will see a near-continuous stream-of-conciousness vituperative insults. (Which have continued, with no reduction in their hatred, ever since.) Where was the attempt to mend fences on the remainiac side? Then, and since, it has been prominent only by it's absence from any remainiac position.
I suggest you look at your self-awarded halo. It doesn't hide the feet of clay or the devil's horns.
AM doesn't need to look at the Guardian and Indy as there was one of his own fine pieces:
' ... recession is beckoning with a dark cloak, a skeletal finger and a voice that speaks in block capitals. '
That's bollocks. I watched the speech live in its entirety. I have never dodged a penny in tax. I heame they never imagined they'd hear a British PM say something like that. It was a watershed moment for many (not me, I've had May's number for years).
But we also value something else: the spirit of citizenship.
T An international company that treats tax laws as an optional extra…
A household name that refuses to work with the authorities even to fight terrorism…
A director who takes out massive dividends while knowing that the company pension is about to go bust…
I’m putting you on warning. This can’t go on anymore.
A change has got to come. And this party – the Conservative Party – is going to make that change.
You thought that was aimed at you?
I believe I am a citizen of the world. So yes.
First time I've ever seen the full text. It's obscene.
Genuine question: which bit?
The first 4 paragraphs are, IMV, fairly close to apple pie.
The 4 specific examples seem self-evidently examples of bad behaviour
It’s only paragraphs 5 & 6 that could be remotely controversial
This is clearly not what she had in mind , however, and the distance between us could not be greater. Now that I have seen the context, I find her use of the phrase squalid, insular, petty, narrow-minded - in short, obscene. But chacun a son gout, Charles.
Bonsoir.
She was using it to describe people who take the benefits of living in a community and disclaim the duties that come with it.
I don’t think you are like that.
Someone grounded in U.K. culture but with a healthy appreciation for others is a valuable member of society and absolutely not who she was referring to
She was describing cosmopolitanism as a negative. This, pejorative sense of cosmopolitanism adopted by Mrs May originated in 19th century German antisemitic tropes - the “rootless Jew” was seen as a “cosmopolitan” citizen from “nowhere”, the “international” financier that does not contribute. She knows her audience, knew they would get it. It was utterly disgraceful on multiple levels.
I think there may be a certain painter that might be available to put Tessy's speech into mural form.
That's bollocks. I watched the speech live in its entirety. I have never dodged a penny in tax. I heame they never imagined they'd hear a British PM say something like that. It was a watershed moment for many (not me, I've had May's number for years).
But we also value something else: the spirit of citizenship.
T An international company that treats tax laws as an optional extra…
A household name that refuses to work with the authorities even to fight terrorism…
A director who takes out massive dividends while knowing that the company pension is about to go bust…
I’m putting you on warning. This can’t go on anymore.
A change has got to come. And this party – the Conservative Party – is going to make that change.
You thought that was aimed at you?
I believe I am a citizen of the world. So yes.
First time I've ever seen the full text. It's obscene.
Genuine question: which bit?
The first 4 paragraphs are, IMV, fairly close to apple pie.
The 4 specific examples seem self-evidently examples of bad behaviour
It’s only paragraphs 5 & 6 that could be remotely controversial
This is clearly not what she had in mind , however, and the distance between us could not be greater. Now that I have seen the context, I find her use of the phrase squalid, insular, petty, narrow-minded - in short, obscene. But chacun a son gout, Charles.
Bonsoir.
She was using it to describe people who take the benefits of living in a community and disclaim the duties that come with it.
I don’t think you are like that.
Someone grounded in U.K. culture but with a healthy appreciation for others is a valuable member of society and absolutely not who she was referring to
She was describing cosmopolitanism as a negative. This, pejorative sense of cosmopolitanism adopted by Mrs May originated in 19th century German antisemitic tropes - the “rootless Jew” was seen as a “cosmopolitan” citizen from “nowhere”, the “international” financier that does not contribute. She knows her audience, knew they would get it. It was utterly disgraceful on multiple levels.
I think there may be a certain painter that may be available to put Tessy's speech into mural form.
She could have held the meaningful vote in December, lost, then stepped down with honour. The following four months have disgraced her.
Pulling the December vote was a turning point. It's certainly very bad MPs have permitted her to spin in place for 4 months, but she lost my sympathy at that point.
A thought - the only way May's Deal can pass is metaphorically 'one minute after midnight'.
In real terms a couple of weeks after a No Deal event.
If things go badly after a No Deal the Leaver MPs would then swing behind May's Deal to stave off disaster.
If things don't go badly after a No Deal the Remainer MPs would then swing behind May's Deal to stave off success.
You can't pass TMay's Deal after a No Deal event. Once you've left, getting a similar agreement would mean passing a treaty though the legislatures of all 27 member states.
I know.
We'll only want May's Deal when we can no longer have it.
Quite so. Sucks, but let's hold slim hope the Commons really does start eliminating options soon.
I am always saddened when physically in places where fictional people lived. I've been in Cricklewood (Goodies) Surbiton (Good Life) University of East Anglia (A Very Peculiar Practice and - I shit you not - Avengers HQ) and they did not live up to their reputation, being almost entirely lacking in trandems, compost, and Thors.
I am always saddened when physically in places where fictional people lived. I've been in Cricklewood (Goodies) Surbiton (Good Life) University of East Anglia (A Very Peculiar Practice and - I shit you not - Avengers HQ) and they did not live up to their reputation, being almost entirely lacking in trandems, compost, and Thors.
A director who takes out massive dividends while knowing that the company pension is about to go bust…
I’m putting you on warning. This can’t go on anymore.
A change has got to come. And this party – the Conservative Party – is going to make that change.
You thought that was aimed at you?
I believe I am a citizen of the world. So yes.
First time I've ever seen the full text. It's obscene.
Genuine question: which bit?
The first 4 paragraphs are, IMV, fairly close to apple pie.
The 4 specific examples seem self-evidently examples of bad behaviour
It’s only paragraphs 5 & 6 that could be remotely controversial
Until this evening I had never really understood what she meant by 'citizens of the world' but never really thought about it much. Seemed to me it could be taken one of two ways and I didn't know which but wasn't very interested. Now I see it in context it reads as an insult. How dare she imply I don't know the meaning of citizenship! I value it highly, and wish we emphasised it more in our culture in much the way I know Americans and Canadians do. This does not however prevent me from embracing other cultures, and being inclusive and international in my outlook. On the contrary, my grounding in British culture makes it easier for me to engage positively with others beyond this country. In that respect I regard myself as both a citizen of the world as well as of the UK. Far from it being an insult, I would regard it as a compliment.
This is clearly not what she had in mind , however, and the distance between us could not be greater. Now that I have seen the context, I find her use of the phrase squalid, insular, petty, narrow-minded - in short, obscene. But chacun a son gout, Charles.
Bonsoir.
She was using it to describe people who take the benefits of living in a community and disclaim the duties that come with it.
I don’t think you are like that.
Someone grounded in U.K. culture but with a healthy appreciation for others is a valuable member of society and absolutely not who she was referring to
Thanks Charles but I know when I am being insulted, and I know a dog whistle when I hear one.
I think you’re misinterpreting it.
In my view she is explicitly referring to the Philip Green/Jim Ratcliffe & Google/Amazon types.
But let’s leave it there as I don’t think we'll agree
That's bollocks. I watched the speech live in its entirety. I have never dodged a penny in tax. I heame they never imagined they'd hear a British PM say something like that. It was a watershed moment for many (not me, I've had May's number for years).
But we also value something else: the spirit of citizenship.
T An international company that treats tax laws as an optional extra…
A household name that refuses to work with the authorities even to fight terrorism…
A director who takes out massive dividends while knowing that the company pension is about to go bust…
I’m putting you on warning. This can’t go on anymore.
A change has got to come. And this party – the Conservative Party – is going to make that change.
You thought that was aimed at you?
I believe I am a citizen of the world. So yes.
First time I've ever seen the full text. It's obscene.
Genuine question: which bit?
The first 4 paragraphs are, IMV, fairly close to apple pie.
The 4 specific examples seem self-evidently examples of bad behaviour
It’s only paragraphs 5 & 6 that could be remotely controversial
This is clearly not what she had in mind , however, and the distance between us could not be greater. Now that I have seen the context, I find her use of the phrase squalid, insular, petty, narrow-minded - in short, obscene. But chacun a son gout, Charles.
Bonsoir.
She was using it to describe people who take the benefits of living in a community and disclaim the duties that come with it.
I don’t think you are like that.
Someone grounded in U.K. culture but with a healthy appreciation for others is a valuable member of society and absolutely not who she was referring to
She was describing cosmopolitanism as a negative. This, pejorative sense of cosmopolitanism adopted by Mrs May originated in 19th century German antisemitic tropes - the “rootless Jew” was seen as a “cosmopolitan” citizen from “nowhere”, the “international” financier that does not contribute. She knows her audience, knew they would get it. It was utterly disgraceful on multiple levels.
No she wasn’t. She really wasn’t
(FWIW I am a cosmopolitan International financier)
I am always saddened when physically in places where fictional people lived. I've been in Cricklewood (Goodies) Surbiton (Good Life) University of East Anglia (A Very Peculiar Practice and - I shit you not - Avengers HQ) and they did not live up to their reputation, being almost entirely lacking in trandems, compost, and Thors.
EpiPen supply issues are far wider than just Brexit. They’ve been having QC issues at the Meredian facility
Yep but you can always rely on a devout Remainer to dishonestly link everything that goes wrong to Brexit. It is a desperate compulsion they are incapable of resisting.
May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.
The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.
The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
She got ZERO and will continue to do so unfortunately for the plebs
May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.
The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
You are kidding?
Can you imagine May dealing with the weekend the ATMs were about to be frozen due to bank liquidity crisis?
She would announce that she had decided to research a green paper into bank credit issues and then refused to take any questions from media. Then it would be briefed that nothing had changed, despite the fact that no one in the UK could access any cash.
May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.
The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
She got ZERO and will continue to do so unfortunately for the plebs
She got the Agreement agreed with the EU and it will still likely be the basis for Brexit whatever changes are proposed to the future relationship
This is clearly not what she had in mind , however, and the distance between us could not be greater. Now that I have seen the context, I find her use of the phrase squalid, insular, petty, narrow-minded - in short, obscene. But chacun a son gout, Charles.
Bonsoir.
She was using it to describe people who take the benefits of living in a community and disclaim the duties that come with it.
I don’t think you are like that.
Someone grounded in U.K. culture but with a healthy appreciation for others is a valuable member of society and absolutely not who she was referring to
She was describing cosmopolitanism as a negative. This, pejorative sense of cosmopolitanism adopted by Mrs May originated in 19th century German antisemitic tropes - the “rootless Jew” was seen as a “cosmopolitan” citizen from “nowhere”, the “international” financier that does not contribute. She knows her audience, knew they would get it. It was utterly disgraceful on multiple levels.
No she wasn’t. She really wasn’t
(FWIW I am a cosmopolitan International financier)
To you she was criticising your less benevolent peers, which makes it harder to recognise that it was also an attack on people from much more modest backgrounds with broad horizons.
It's similar to the way Champagne socialists talk lazily about 'the rich' and can be oblivious when this strays into kicking down towards the aspirational working class.
May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.
The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
She got ZERO and will continue to do so unfortunately for the plebs
She got the Agreement agreed with the EU and it will still likely be the basis for Brexit whatever changes are proposed to the future relationship
And your point is caller, it is UK she needs to get it agreed with.
May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.
The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
You are kidding?
Can you imagine May dealing with the weekend the ATMs were about to be frozen due to bank liquidity crisis?
She would announce that she had decided to research a green paper into bank credit issues and then refused to take any questions from media. Then it would be briefed that nothing had changed, despite the fact that no one in the UK could access any cash.
It was Brown who spent far too much in the run up to the crash and let the banks go about their business without regulation which ensured the crash caused such damage in the first place, then he bailed out every bank that asked. He was the worst PM since Eden and worse than May, the 29% Labour polled under Brown in 2010 was a testament to that, May's Tories are still mid thirties to 40%
I admit I quickly skim-read the last 400 odd posts but although I saw a fair few referring to the potential for indicative votes I didn't see many picking up on the *possible* AV aspect, which normally gets PB's motor running.
May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.
The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
She got ZERO and will continue to do so unfortunately for the plebs
She got the Agreement agreed with the EU and it will still likely be the basis for Brexit whatever changes are proposed to the future relationship
And your point is caller, it is UK she needs to get it agreed with.
Parliament will still likely vote it through but vote for a more BINO future relationship in my view
May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.
The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
May is by far the worst in my lifetime. By far. She lost me entirely the moment she chose brinkmanship to force her deal, effectively holding the nation to ransom. Very poor, if not dangerous.
May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.
The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
May is by far the worst in my lifetime. By far. She lost me entirely the moment she chose brinkmanship to force her deal, effectively holding the nation to ransom. Very poor, if not dangerous.
To be fair May she tried to honour the core aims of most Leavers ie leave the EU, the Single Market and end free movement and leave the Customs Union and also to get an agreement and lay the ground for a future trade deal with the EU. She has managed to do so albeit with a temporary Customs Union backstop. The fact the diehards in her party refused to accept even minor compromise with the EU putting purity above all and the fact it seems a majority in Parliament will only accept a BINO stay in the SM and CU Brexit if it is to accept any Brexit at all is not her fault but theirs
I admit I quickly skim-read the last 400 odd posts but although I saw a fair few referring to the potential for indicative votes I didn't see many picking up on the *possible* AV aspect, which normally gets PB's motor running.
Edit to add - although maybe this came up on the previous thread. It's hard to keep up with both Twitter and PB these days.
AV is a little bit tricksy for something like this because it may eliminate the consensus choice that nobody likes best but most people could live with.
What they should do is put them all in order and ask MPs to rank them. Once you have the rankings you can work out if there's a Condorcet winner, which there probably will be, and even if there isn't you can at least eliminate the Condorcet losers.
I admit I quickly skim-read the last 400 odd posts but although I saw a fair few referring to the potential for indicative votes I didn't see many picking up on the *possible* AV aspect, which normally gets PB's motor running.
Edit to add - although maybe this came up on the previous thread. It's hard to keep up with both Twitter and PB these days.
AV is a little bit tricksy for something like this because it may eliminate the consensus choice that nobody likes best but most people could live with.
What they should do is put them all in order and ask MPs to rank them. Once you have the rankings you can work out if there's a Condorcet winner, which there probably will be, and even if there isn't you can at least eliminate the Condorcet losers.
For pure theatre, political nerdiness and just plain understanding how MPs would vote on each in isolation I kind of want to see them doing the normal division on these (unwhipped), but also ranking them as you suggest.
But we also value something else: the spirit of citizenship.
T An international company that treats tax laws as an optional extra…
A household name that refuses to work with the authorities even to fight terrorism…
A director who takes out massive dividends while knowing that the company pension is about to go bust…
I’m putting you on warning. This can’t go on anymore.
A change has got to come. And this party – the Conservative Party – is going to make that change.
You thought that was aimed at you?
I believe I am a citizen of the world. So yes.
First time I've ever seen the full text. It's obscene.
Genuine question: which bit?
The first 4 paragraphs are, IMV, fairly close to apple pie.
The 4 specific examples seem self-evidently examples of bad behaviour
It’s only paragraphs 5 & 6 that could be remotely controversial
This is clearly not what she had in mind , however, and the distance between us could not be greater. Now that I have seen the context, I find her use of the phrase squalid, insular, petty, narrow-minded - in short, obscene. But chacun a son gout, Charles.
Bonsoir.
She was using it to describe people who take the benefits of living in a community and disclaim the duties that come with it.
I don’t think you are like that.
Someone grounded in U.K. culture but with a healthy appreciation for others is a valuable member of society and absolutely not who she was referring to
Thanks Charles but I know when I am being insulted, and I know a dog whistle when I hear one.
This was also in the speech:
They find your patriotism distasteful, your concerns about immigration parochial, your views about crime illiberal, your attachment to your job security inconvenient.
They find the fact that more than seventeen million voters decided to leave the European Union simply bewildering.
Because if you’re well off and comfortable, Britain is a different country and these concerns are not your concerns.
The whole speech gave off a nasty kind of low level fascist hum. It's like Jeremy's mural - it's all quite obvious unless you don't want to see it.
May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.
The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
She got ZERO and will continue to do so unfortunately for the plebs
She got the Agreement agreed with the EU and it will still likely be the basis for Brexit whatever changes are proposed to the future relationship
And your point is caller, it is UK she needs to get it agreed with.
Parliament will still likely vote it through but vote for a more BINO future relationship in my view
I don't know how you can still believe that. It's getting further away from happening every day while the people's vote side gets stronger and stronger. The main attraction for MPs? It makes it not their fault what happens, in their eyes. It's just easier for them.
May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.
The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
You are kidding?
Can you imagine May dealing with the weekend the ATMs were about to be frozen due to bank liquidity crisis?
She would announce that she had decided to research a green paper into bank credit issues and then refused to take any questions from media. Then it would be briefed that nothing had changed, despite the fact that no one in the UK could access any cash.
It was Brown who spent far too much in the run up to the crash and let the banks go about their business without regulation which ensured the crash caused such damage in the first place, then he bailed out every bank that asked. He was the worst PM since Eden and worse than May, the 29% Labour polled under Brown in 2010 was a testament to that, May's Tories are still mid thirties to 40%
Opinion poll ratings are not the only criteria for greatness, Thatcher's ratings were dire at the end of her Premiership. May has been an utter disaster, even that well known organ of socialism the Financial Times has described her and her predecessor as the worst premiers in British history.
But we also value something else: the spirit of citizenship.
T An international company that treats tax laws as an optional extra…
A household name that refuses to work with the authorities even to fight terrorism…
A director who takes out massive dividends while knowing that the company pension is about to go bust…
I’m putting you on warning. This can’t go on anymore.
A change has got to come. And this party – the Conservative Party – is going to make that change.
You thought that was aimed at you?
I believe I am a citizen of the world. So yes.
First time I've ever seen the full text. It's obscene.
Genuine question: which bit?
The first 4 paragraphs are, IMV, fairly close to apple pie.
The 4 specific examples seem self-evidently examples of bad behaviour
It’s only paragraphs 5 & 6 that could be remotely controversial
This is clearly not what she had in mind , however, and the distance between us could not be greater. Now that I have seen the context, I find her use of the phrase squalid, insular, petty, narrow-minded - in short, obscene. But chacun a son gout, Charles.
Bonsoir.
She was using it to describe people who take the benefits of living in a community and disclaim the duties that come with it.
I don’t think you are like that.
Someone grounded in U.K. culture but with a healthy appreciation for others is a valuable member of society and absolutely not who she was referring to
Thanks Charles but I know when I am being insulted, and I know a dog whistle when I hear one.
This was also in the speech:
They find your patriotism distasteful, your concerns about immigration parochial, your views about crime illiberal, your attachment to your job security inconvenient.
They find the fact that more than seventeen million voters decided to leave the European Union simply bewildering.
Because if you’re well off and comfortable, Britain is a different country and these concerns are not your concerns.
The whole speech gave off a nasty kind of low level fascist hum. It's like Jeremy's mural - it's all quite obvious unless you don't want to see it.
Well, I think she is appalling but I don't see it as "low level fascist".
Comments
https://twitter.com/KenDilanianNBC/status/1109210294620962816
https://www.dec.org.uk/
- the sight of huge numbers of people trapped on roofs with just 11 operational helicopters is just so utterly awful.
I was hoping for indictments for the Trump kids.
In real terms a couple of weeks after a No Deal event.
If things go badly after a No Deal the Leaver MPs would then swing behind May's Deal to stave off disaster.
If things don't go badly after a No Deal the Remainer MPs would then swing behind May's Deal to stave off success.
But it'll just be another failed plan.
I might have more respect for your opinion if you took your remainiac blinkers off, and contemplate (in the words of the bible) "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"
When I saw you claim "The paranoia about the motives of Remain supporters was self-fulfilling: there are only so many times that you can be told that you are a traitor or a quisling before you decide that you might as well act as a fifth columnist if you’re going to be treated as one." it was so ridiculous, I laughed aloud.
Perhaps you should refresh your memory, and look at the comment sections of articles in The Guardian and The Independent articles on the 24th of June 2016. You will see a near-continuous stream-of-conciousness vituperative insults. (Which have continued, with no reduction in their hatred, ever since.) Where was the attempt to mend fences on the remainiac side? Then, and since, it has been prominent only by it's absence from any remainiac position.
I suggest you look at your self-awarded halo. It doesn't hide the feet of clay or the devil's horns.
I don’t think you are like that.
Someone grounded in U.K. culture but with a healthy appreciation for others is a valuable member of society and absolutely not who she was referring to
Dogs don't whistle.
And the whole point of a whistle FOR dogs is that you can't hear it:
*Pedant hat OFF*
Just asking in case it's the Brexit Secretary who voted against his own motion to delay Brexit, but for some mysterious reason didn't feel the need to resign as a result. Only, the ERG's claim to have a secret plan to stop delay being implemented may be piss and wind, but if it isn't, could it be that?
Nite nite. Need to be well rested for tomorrow's march.
We'll only want May's Deal when we can no longer have it.
And yet again, I point out that this is a problem for the winners. You want Brexit to work. You’ve done everything you can to ensure it won’t.
They find your patriotism distasteful, your concerns about immigration parochial, your views about crime illiberal, your attachment to your job security inconvenient.
They find the fact that more than seventeen million voters decided to leave the European Union simply bewildering.
Because if you’re well off and comfortable, Britain is a different country and these concerns are not your concerns.
Good night.
' ... recession is beckoning with a dark cloak, a skeletal finger and a voice that speaks in block capitals. '
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/29/alistair-meeks-on-the-political-and-economic-crises-of-breathtaking-proportions/
https://twitter.com/uklabour/status/1109155782287740928?s=21
https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/1109196545575059457
The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
In my view she is explicitly referring to the Philip Green/Jim Ratcliffe & Google/Amazon types.
But let’s leave it there as I don’t think we'll agree
(FWIW I am a cosmopolitan International financier)
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/509680882801736921/?amp_client_id=sJpKbjD49B-bCQRjGCZcaWsH9mCvKXTu6XY02RdLEjA-prpdBTKyC_qceyzedyjd&mweb_unauth_id=477e77aa82e0b73df5959832f1fcbc91
No further indictments can ignore:
Currently unsealed indictments
Indictments referred to other jurisdicational authorities
Do not read too much into things yet.
Can you imagine May dealing with the weekend the ATMs were about to be frozen due to bank liquidity crisis?
She would announce that she had decided to research a green paper into bank credit issues and then refused to take any questions from media. Then it would be briefed that nothing had changed, despite the fact that no one in the UK could access any cash.
It's similar to the way Champagne socialists talk lazily about 'the rich' and can be oblivious when this strays into kicking down towards the aspirational working class.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1109084146440331265
Edit to add - although maybe this came up on the previous thread. It's hard to keep up with both Twitter and PB these days.
What they should do is put them all in order and ask MPs to rank them. Once you have the rankings you can work out if there's a Condorcet winner, which there probably will be, and even if there isn't you can at least eliminate the Condorcet losers.
Yet, even with the Brexit disaster ongoing she is still felt to be preferable to the cess pit that is Labour.