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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As we approach the slightly later than planned day of reckonin

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  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    May is by far the worst in my lifetime. By far. She lost me entirely the moment she chose brinkmanship to force her deal, effectively holding the nation to ransom. Very poor, if not dangerous.
    To be fair May she tried to honour the core aims of most Leavers ie leave the EU, the Single Market and end free movement and leave the Customs Union and also to get an agreement and lay the ground for a future trade deal with the EU. She has managed to do so albeit with a temporary Customs Union backstop. The fact the diehards in her party refused to accept even minor compromise with the EU putting purity above all and the fact it seems a majority in Parliament will only accept a BINO stay in the SM and CU Brexit if it is to accept any Brexit at all is not her fault but theirs
    You’re wrong. Her inability to convince anyone apart from the ultra loyalist coupled with a deaf ear and a tendency towards command and control was her undoing. She has only herself to blame.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    She got ZERO and will continue to do so unfortunately for the plebs
    She got the Agreement agreed with the EU and it will still likely be the basis for Brexit whatever changes are proposed to the future relationship
    And your point is caller, it is UK she needs to get it agreed with.
    Parliament will still likely vote it through but vote for a more BINO future relationship in my view
    I don't know how you can still believe that. It's getting further away from happening every day while the people's vote side gets stronger and stronger. The main attraction for MPs? It makes it not their fault what happens, in their eyes. It's just easier for them.
    There is no majority in Parliament for EUref2 in my view, Labour MPs from Leave seats and Tory soft Brexiteers are the key swing voters and they will not vote for EUref2 but will vote for permanent Customs Union and/or Single Market over No Deal but that only relates to the future relationship, as even Boles has acknowledged they will still in the end have to vote the Withdrawal Agreement through
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    You are kidding? :lol:

    Can you imagine May dealing with the weekend the ATMs were about to be frozen due to bank liquidity crisis?

    She would announce that she had decided to research a green paper into bank credit issues and then refused to take any questions from media. Then it would be briefed that nothing had changed, despite the fact that no one in the UK could access any cash.
    It was Brown who spent far too much in the run up to the crash and let the banks go about their business without regulation which ensured the crash caused such damage in the first place, then he bailed out every bank that asked. He was the worst PM since Eden and worse than May, the 29% Labour polled under Brown in 2010 was a testament to that, May's Tories are still mid thirties to 40%
    Opinion poll ratings are not the only criteria for greatness, Thatcher's ratings were dire at the end of her Premiership. May has been an utter disaster, even that well known organ of socialism the Financial Times has described her and her predecessor as the worst premiers in British history.
    The FT backed Kinnock for PM in 1992, enough said about its political judgement or lack of it!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187
    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    You know what, I am not sure he was - and I thought he was awful beyond measure

    Yet, even with the Brexit disaster ongoing she is still felt to be preferable to the cess pit that is Labour.
    Corbyn would of course be worse than May and Brown
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136
    Charles said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    matt said:

    matt said:

    I just bought Spice by the Spice Girls on iTunes.

    People buy music on iTunes? How quaint.
    You wot?
    Spotify. Apple Music. Tidal.
    Cleese. Milligan. Everett.

    Sessions.
    Brooke-Taylor. Garden. Oddie.

    Cricklewood.
    Truth or Dare.

    My Turn.

    I own a Goodies album and 2 Goodies singles.


    Who is next?
    I am always saddened when physically in places where fictional people lived. I've been in Cricklewood (Goodies) Surbiton (Good Life) University of East Anglia (A Very Peculiar Practice and - I shit you not - Avengers HQ) and they did not live up to their reputation, being almost entirely lacking in trandems, compost, and Thors.
    Surely it was Diana Rigg’s Avengers not Thor?
    After the Manhattan Stark Tower is damaged a Stark Industries building is repurposed as the upstate New York Avengers HQ. In the final scenes of Avengers: Age of Ultron there is a shot of Thor, Captain America and Tony Stark walking down a corridor with angled glass walls: they then exit the corridor into a field where Stark and Thor depart. There is then an external shot of a rectilinear building with a two-storey wall made entirely from glass. Captain America stands before the new team in that building, draws breath, says "Avengers..." and we smash-cut to black.

    The rectilinear building and the angled glass corridor onto a field are better known in IRL as The Sainsbury Centre for Visual Arts at the University of East Anglia. Here is an article about the filming[1] and here is the building's website[2].

    Nowadays filming locations have been replaced by CGI, but a CGI model of the building is still used when depicting the facility in the films. In the latest "Avengers: Endgame" trailer the big glass wall is clearly visible.

    [1] http://www.futurerulerofmidgard.com/filming-location/location-visit-avengers-headquarters-university-east-anglia/
    [2] https://scva.ac.uk/about/the-building
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    May is by far the worst in my lifetime. By far. She lost me entirely the moment she chose brinkmanship to force her deal, effectively holding the nation to ransom. Very poor, if not dangerous.
    To be fair May she tried to honour the core aims of most Leavers ie leave the EU, the Single Market and end free movement and leave the Customs Union and also to get an agreement and lay the ground for a future trade deal with the EU. She has managed to do so albeit with a temporary Customs Union backstop. The fact the diehards in her party refused to accept even minor compromise with the EU putting purity above all and the fact it seems a majority in Parliament will only accept a BINO stay in the SM and CU Brexit if it is to accept any Brexit at all is not her fault but theirs
    You’re wrong. Her inability to convince anyone apart from the ultra loyalist coupled with a deaf ear and a tendency towards command and control was her undoing. She has only herself to blame.
    Has there ever been a worse communicator or socially/politically-aware PM?

    Maybe Heath?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    edited March 2019

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    You are kidding? :lol:

    Can you imagine May dealing with the weekend the ATMs were about to be frozen due to bank liquidity crisis?

    She would announce that she had decided to research a green paper into bank credit issues and then refused to take any questions from media. Then it would be briefed that nothing had changed, despite the fact that no one in the UK could access any cash.
    It was Brown who spent far too much in the run up to the crash and let the banks go about their business without regulation which ensured the crash caused such damage in the first place, then he bailed out every bank that asked. He was the worst PM since Eden and worse than May, the 29% Labour polled under Brown in 2010 was a testament to that, May's Tories are still mid thirties to 40%
    Opinion poll ratings are not the only criteria for greatness, Thatcher's ratings were dire at the end of her Premiership. May has been an utter disaster, even that well known organ of socialism the Financial Times has described her and her predecessor as the worst premiers in British history.
    Paxman has Cameron as the worst PM since Lord North. May has let both off the hook.

    The trend is downward in PMs this century. The question is: will that trend continue? Seems possible.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187
    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    May is by far the worst in my lifetime. By far. She lost me entirely the moment she chose brinkmanship to force her deal, effectively holding the nation to ransom. Very poor, if not dangerous.
    To be fair May she tried to honour the core aims of most Leavers ie leave the EU, the Single Market and end free movement and leave the Customs Union and also to get an agreement and lay the ground for a future trade deal with the EU. She has managed to do so albeit with a temporary Customs Union backstop. The fact the diehards in her party refused to accept even minor compromise with the EU putting purity above all and the fact it seems a majority in Parliament will only accept a BINO stay in the SM and CU Brexit if it is to accept any Brexit at all is not her fault but theirs
    You’re wrong. Her inability to convince anyone apart from the ultra loyalist coupled with a deaf ear and a tendency towards command and control was her undoing. She has only herself to blame.
    In your view, I disagree. May was trying to do Brexit in the only way that properly respected the Leave vote while also still getting a deal with the EU.

    Clearly though too many Leavers would not accept any compromise at all with the EU pushing No Deal and ultra hard Brexit while too many Remainers were pushing EUref2 and trying to revoke Brexit completely or else SM and CU BINO which we will probably end up with and is technically Brexit but in reality is staying in the EU in most respects but just without having a say in the rules.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    You are kidding? :lol:

    Can you imagine May dealing with the weekend the ATMs were about to be frozen due to bank liquidity crisis?

    She would announce that she had decided to research a green paper into bank credit issues and then refused to take any questions from media. Then it would be briefed that nothing had changed, despite the fact that no one in the UK could access any cash.
    It was Brown who spent far too much in the run up to the crash and let the banks go about their business without regulation which ensured the crash caused such damage in the first place, then he bailed out every bank that asked. He was the worst PM since Eden and worse than May, the 29% Labour polled under Brown in 2010 was a testament to that, May's Tories are still mid thirties to 40%
    Brown was the worst PM since Eden.
    May is the worst PM since Lord North.

    Even Eden and Chamberlain were better than May.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    May is by far the worst in my lifetime. By far. She lost me entirely the moment she chose brinkmanship to force her deal, effectively holding the nation to ransom. Very poor, if not dangerous.
    To be fair May she tried to honour the core aims of most Leavers ie leave the EU, the Single Market and end free movement and leave the Customs Union and also to get an agreement and lay the ground for a future trade deal with the EU. She has managed to do so albeit with a temporary Customs Union backstop. The fact the diehards in her party refused to accept even minor compromise with the EU putting purity above all and the fact it seems a majority in Parliament will only accept a BINO stay in the SM and CU Brexit if it is to accept any Brexit at all is not her fault but theirs
    You’re wrong. Her inability to convince anyone apart from the ultra loyalist coupled with a deaf ear and a tendency towards command and control was her undoing. She has only herself to blame.
    In your view, I disagree. May was trying to do Brexit in the only way that properly respected the Leave vote while also still getting a deal with the EU.

    Clearly though too many Leavers would not accept any compromise at all with the EU pushing No Deal and ultra hard Brexit while too many Remainers were pushing EUref2 and trying to revoke Brexit completely or else SM and CU BINO which we will probably end up with and is technically Brexit but in reality is staying in the EU in most respects but just without having a say in the rules.
    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,902
    viewcode said:


    After the Manhattan Stark Tower is damaged a Stark Industries building is repurposed as the upstate New York Avengers HQ. In the final scenes of Avengers: Age of Ultron there is a shot of Thor, Captain America and Tony Stark walking down a corridor with angled glass walls: they then exit the corridor into a field where Stark and Thor depart. There is then an external shot of a rectilinear building with a two-storey wall made entirely from glass. Captain America stands before the new team in that building, draws breath, says "Avengers..." and we smash-cut to black.

    The rectilinear building and the angled glass corridor onto a field are better known in IRL as The Sainsbury Centre for Visual Arts at the University of East Anglia. Here is an article about the filming[1] and here is the building's website[2].

    Nowadays filming locations have been replaced by CGI, but a CGI model of the building is still used when depicting the facility in the films. In the latest "Avengers: Endgame" trailer the big glass wall is clearly visible.

    [1] http://www.futurerulerofmidgard.com/filming-location/location-visit-avengers-headquarters-university-east-anglia/
    [2] https://scva.ac.uk/about/the-building

    I was at UEA in the early 80s - the Sainsbury Centre was the home of the Fine Arts and Music School (FAM). I went out briefly with a FAM student - they had a restaurant which my Douglas Adams addled mind would call "the Restaurant at the End of the University". There was a more down to earth café which was known as the "Big Bang Burger Bar" at the opposite end of the campus.

    I was often Marvin - Hank Marvin that is.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387
    HYUFD said:
    39/39/10, without TIG.

    On the EU, 41% wish to Leave on 29th March, 36% wish to delay.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187
    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    You are kidding? :lol:

    Can you imagine May dealing with the weekend the ATMs were about to be frozen due to bank liquidity crisis?

    She would announce that she had decided to research a green paper into bank credit issues and then refused to take any questions from media. Then it would be briefed that nothing had changed, despite the fact that no one in the UK could access any cash.
    It was Brown who spent far too much in the run up to the crash and let the banks go about their business without regulation which ensured the crash caused such damage in the first place, then he bailed out every bank that asked. He was the worst PM since Eden and worse than May, the 29% Labour polled under Brown in 2010 was a testament to that, May's Tories are still mid thirties to 40%
    Opinion poll ratings are not the only criteria for greatness, Thatcher's ratings were dire at the end of her Premiership. May has been an utter disaster, even that well known organ of socialism the Financial Times has described her and her predecessor as the worst premiers in British history.
    Paxman has Cameron as the worst PM since Lord North. May has let both off the hook.

    The trend is downward in PMs this century. The question is: will that trend continue? Seems possible.
    Paxman is sprouting rubbish, Wellington, Rosebery, Balfour, Macdonald, Neville Chamberlain, Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse than Cameron and probably worse than May too
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316

    I admit I quickly skim-read the last 400 odd posts but although I saw a fair few referring to the potential for indicative votes I didn't see many picking up on the *possible* AV aspect, which normally gets PB's motor running.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1109084146440331265

    Edit to add - although maybe this came up on the previous thread. It's hard to keep up with both Twitter and PB these days.

    AV is a little bit tricksy for something like this because it may eliminate the consensus choice that nobody likes best but most people could live with.

    What they should do is put them all in order and ask MPs to rank them. Once you have the rankings you can work out if there's a Condorcet winner, which there probably will be, and even if there isn't you can at least eliminate the Condorcet losers.
    It’s a shame that Approval Voting shares an acronym with the Alternative Vote, because every time I see AV I get a little positive buzz and then realise that no, it’s just Alternative Vote with all it’s flaws again.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,628
    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    May is by far the worst in my lifetime. By far. She lost me entirely the moment she chose brinkmanship to force her deal, effectively holding the nation to ransom. Very poor, if not dangerous.
    To be fair May she tried to honour the core aims of most Leavers ie leave the EU, the Single Market and end free movement and leave the Customs Union and also to get an agreement and lay the ground for a future trade deal with the EU. She has managed to do so albeit with a temporary Customs Union backstop. The fact the diehards in her party refused to accept even minor compromise with the EU putting purity above all and the fact it seems a majority in Parliament will only accept a BINO stay in the SM and CU Brexit if it is to accept any Brexit at all is not her fault but theirs
    You’re wrong. Her inability to convince anyone apart from the ultra loyalist coupled with a deaf ear and a tendency towards command and control was her undoing. She has only herself to blame.
    May has no leadership or people skills but the Conservative party is not fit for purpose.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    She got ZERO and will continue to do so unfortunately for the plebs
    She got the Agreement agreed with the EU and it will still likely be the basis for Brexit whatever changes are proposed to the future relationship
    Any fool could get an agreement with the EU if you just give in to everything they demand.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    You are kidding? :lol:

    Can you imagine May dealing with the weekend the ATMs were about to be frozen due to bank liquidity crisis?

    She would announce that she had decided to research a green paper into bank credit issues and then refused to take any questions from media. Then it would be briefed that nothing had changed, despite the fact that no one in the UK could access any cash.
    It was Brown who spent far too much in the run up to the crash and let the banks go about their business without regulation which ensured the crash caused such damage in the first place, then he bailed out every bank that asked. He was the worst PM since Eden and worse than May, the 29% Labour polled under Brown in 2010 was a testament to that, May's Tories are still mid thirties to 40%
    Opinion poll ratings are not the only criteria for greatness, Thatcher's ratings were dire at the end of her Premiership. May has been an utter disaster, even that well known organ of socialism the Financial Times has described her and her predecessor as the worst premiers in British history.
    I think it’s now fairly clear MayDay is indeed the worst PM in living memory. She had the opportunity to be a history maker, but made a huge strategic error up top by throwing her hat in with the frothers. Who will ever forget that sinking feeling when Liam Fox, Double D, and Boris walked into No. 10 to collect their offices of state?
  • Just got in from a whisky tasting evening, having decided that the perfect answer to Brexit worries is to buy a sensational bottle of Scotch for a sensational price. I look forward to sipping it whilst making mewing noises in 3 weeks time as the sky falls in on May.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,725

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    She got ZERO and will continue to do so unfortunately for the plebs
    She got the Agreement agreed with the EU and it will still likely be the basis for Brexit whatever changes are proposed to the future relationship
    Any fool could get an agreement with the EU if you just give in to everything they demand.
    She famously didn't give in. She got them to concede a UK-wide customs backstop.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    Of course it's unambiguous. She helpfully gives a bunch of examples of what she means,and she explains exactly what the context is.

    Sure, people who dislike her or dislike the Tories or hate Brexit decided to take offence by deliberately misunderstanding or (more likely) not even bothering to find out what she actually said. And it's true that a smarter politician would have been careful to give them less scope for such misrepresentation. But it's still misrepresentation.

    The same happened with Thatcher of course and the famous "no such thing as society" quote. Listen to the full quote and nobody reasonable could disagree with it. Take it out of context and its twisted to mean the opposite of what she was saying.
    That was an extraordinary wilful misrepresentation. She was saying the exact opposite of what her critics claimed she was saying. Her critics were, and are, quite simply lying about what she said.

    A similar lie about the her government's alleged destruction of British manufacturing and the coal industry, both of which declined less under her premiership than in the equivalent periods before and after, has become accepted 'truth'. Hey-ho.

    Having said that, Theresa May is no Margaret Thatcher!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387
    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    You are kidding? :lol:

    Can you imagine May dealing with the weekend the ATMs were about to be frozen due to bank liquidity crisis?

    She would announce that she had decided to research a green paper into bank credit issues and then refused to take any questions from media. Then it would be briefed that nothing had changed, despite the fact that no one in the UK could access any cash.
    It was Brown who spent far too much in the run up to the crash and let the banks go about their business without regulation which ensured the crash caused such damage in the first place, then he bailed out every bank that asked. He was the worst PM since Eden and worse than May, the 29% Labour polled under Brown in 2010 was a testament to that, May's Tories are still mid thirties to 40%
    Opinion poll ratings are not the only criteria for greatness, Thatcher's ratings were dire at the end of her Premiership. May has been an utter disaster, even that well known organ of socialism the Financial Times has described her and her predecessor as the worst premiers in British history.
    Paxman has Cameron as the worst PM since Lord North. May has let both off the hook.

    The trend is downward in PMs this century. The question is: will that trend continue? Seems possible.
    Much depends on when you leave. If Thatcher had been forced out at the start of 1982, she'd be viewed as one of the worst.

    There have been worse PM's than Cameron and May since 1783.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    You are kidding? :lol:

    Can you imagine May dealing with the weekend the ATMs were about to be frozen due to bank liquidity crisis?

    She would announce that she had decided to research a green paper into bank credit issues and then refused to take any questions from media. Then it would be briefed that nothing had changed, despite the fact that no one in the UK could access any cash.
    It was Brown who spent far too much in the run up to the crash and let the banks go about their business without regulation which ensured the crash caused such damage in the first place, then he bailed out every bank that asked. He was the worst PM since Eden and worse than May, the 29% Labour polled under Brown in 2010 was a testament to that, May's Tories are still mid thirties to 40%
    Brown was the worst PM since Eden.
    May is the worst PM since Lord North.

    Even Eden and Chamberlain were better than May.
    Rubbish, both were far worse than May, Suez and Munich were all self inflicted (though Chamberlain did do some good domestic policy). May was handed Brexit having opposed it and has got a WA which many others would not have done and which will still likely be what we Brexit with a BINO future relationship
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,888
    viewcode said:

    Charles said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    matt said:

    matt said:

    I just bought Spice by the Spice Girls on iTunes.

    People buy music on iTunes? How quaint.
    You wot?
    Spotify. Apple Music. Tidal.
    Cleese. Milligan. Everett.

    Sessions.
    Brooke-Taylor. Garden. Oddie.

    Cricklewood.
    Truth or Dare.

    My Turn.

    I own a Goodies album and 2 Goodies singles.


    Who is next?
    I am always saddened when physically in places where fictional people lived. I've been in Cricklewood (Goodies) Surbiton (Good Life) University of East Anglia (A Very Peculiar Practice and - I shit you not - Avengers HQ) and they did not live up to their reputation, being almost entirely lacking in trandems, compost, and Thors.
    Surely it was Diana Rigg’s Avengers not Thor?
    After the Manhattan Stark Tower is damaged a Stark Industries building is repurposed as the upstate New York Avengers HQ. In the final scenes of Avengers: Age of Ultron there is a shot of Thor, Captain America and Tony Stark walking down a corridor with angled glass walls: they then exit the corridor into a field where Stark and Thor depart. There is then an external shot of a rectilinear building with a two-storey wall made entirely from glass. Captain America stands before the new team in that building, draws breath, says "Avengers..." and we smash-cut to black.

    The rectilinear building and the angled glass corridor onto a field are better known in IRL as The Sainsbury Centre for Visual Arts at the University of East Anglia. Here is an article about the filming[1] and here is the building's website[2].

    Nowadays filming locations have been replaced by CGI, but a CGI model of the building is still used when depicting the facility in the films. In the latest "Avengers: Endgame" trailer the big glass wall is clearly visible.

    [1] http://www.futurerulerofmidgard.com/filming-location/location-visit-avengers-headquarters-university-east-anglia/
    [2] https://scva.ac.uk/about/the-building
    I worked at Arkham Asylum between 2007 and 2010, but when I passed through the area a couple of weeks ago, it has been completely demolished to make way for flats :(
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited March 2019
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:
    39/39/10, without TIG.

    On the EU, 41% wish to Leave on 29th March, 36% wish to delay.
    LOL! A majority want to LEAVE in one weeks time and the moronic Tories after spending two ******* years telling the world we're leaving on 29th March have now called it off.

    What a complete and utter shower of shit.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    You are kidding? :lol:

    Can you imagine May dealing with the weekend the ATMs were about to be frozen due to bank liquidity crisis?

    She would announce that she had decided to research a green paper into bank credit issues and then refused to take any questions from media. Then it would be briefed that nothing had changed, despite the fact that no one in the UK could access any cash.
    It was Brown who spent far too much in the run up to the crash and let the banks go about their business without regulation which ensured the crash caused such damage in the first place, then he bailed out every bank that asked. He was the worst PM since Eden and worse than May, the 29% Labour polled under Brown in 2010 was a testament to that, May's Tories are still mid thirties to 40%
    Opinion poll ratings are not the only criteria for greatness, Thatcher's ratings were dire at the end of her Premiership. May has been an utter disaster, even that well known organ of socialism the Financial Times has described her and her predecessor as the worst premiers in British history.
    Paxman has Cameron as the worst PM since Lord North. May has let both off the hook.

    The trend is downward in PMs this century. The question is: will that trend continue? Seems possible.
    Paxman is sprouting rubbish, Wellington, Rosebery, Balfour, Macdonald, Neville Chamberlain, Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse than Cameron and probably worse than May too
    Loyal to the last. Against all evidence. There is honour in that.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    Jonathan said:

    <

    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.

    And her statement on Wednesday was an outrageous attack on the principles of representative democracy which would not have passed the lips of any other PM in modern times. Her attempt to present herself as the embodiment of the will of the people against elected MPs is straight out of the 1930s - utterly indefensible and a threat to democracy itself.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    viewcode said:

    Charles said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    matt said:

    matt said:

    I just bought Spice by the Spice Girls on iTunes.

    People buy music on iTunes? How quaint.
    You wot?
    Spotify. Apple Music. Tidal.
    Cleese. Milligan. Everett.

    Sessions.
    Brooke-Taylor. Garden. Oddie.

    Cricklewood.
    Truth or Dare.

    My Turn.

    I own a Goodies album and 2 Goodies singles.


    Who is next?
    I am always saddened when physically in places where fictional people lived. I've been in Cricklewood (Goodies) Surbiton (Good Life) University of East Anglia (A Very Peculiar Practice and - I shit you not - Avengers HQ) and they did not live up to their reputation, being almost entirely lacking in trandems, compost, and Thors.
    Surely it was Diana Rigg’s Avengers not Thor?
    After the Manhattan Stark Tower is damaged a Stark Industries building is repurposed as the upstate New York Avengers HQ. In the final scenes of Avengers: Age of Ultron there is a shot of Thor, Captain America and Tony Stark walking down a corridor with angled glass walls: they then exit the corridor into a field where Stark and Thor depart. There is then an external shot of a rectilinear building with a two-storey wall made entirely from glass. Captain America stands before the new team in that building, draws breath, says "Avengers..." and we smash-cut to black.

    The rectilinear building and the angled glass corridor onto a field are better known in IRL as The Sainsbury Centre for Visual Arts at the University of East Anglia. Here is an article about the filming[1] and here is the building's website[2].

    Nowadays filming locations have been replaced by CGI, but a CGI model of the building is still used when depicting the facility in the films. In the latest "Avengers: Endgame" trailer the big glass wall is clearly visible.

    [1] http://www.futurerulerofmidgard.com/filming-location/location-visit-avengers-headquarters-university-east-anglia/
    [2] https://scva.ac.uk/about/the-building
    They borrowed my office for Bridget Jones’ Diary.

    Somehow that sounds less impressive 🤣
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187
    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    May is by far the worst in my lifetime. By far. She lost me entirely the moment she chose brinkmanship to force her deal, effectively holding the nation to ransom. Very poor, if not dangerous.
    To be fair May she tried to honour the core aims of most Leavers ie leave the EU, the Single Market and end free movement and leave the Customs Union and also to get an agreement and lay the ground for a future trade deal with the EU. She has managed to do so albeit with a temporary Customs Union backstop. The fact the diehards in her party refused to accept even minor compromise with the EU putting purity above all and the fact it seems a majority in Parliament will only accept a BINO stay in the SM and CU Brexit if it is to accept any Brexit at all is not her fault but theirs
    You’re wrong. Her inability to convince anyone apart from the ultra loyalist coupled with a deaf ear and a tendency towards command and control was her undoing. She has only herself to blame.
    In your view, I dises.
    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.
    Again, rubbish. May came into office with the county having voted for Brexit and deeply divided, she has got a Brexit Deal against the odds just fanatical Leavers for No Deal and fanatical Remainers for reversing Brexit completely will not accept any compromise
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387
    Re, the Com Res poll, 3% approve of Parliament's handling of Brexit, 78% disapprove.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Jonathan said:

    <

    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.

    And her statement on Wednesday was an outrageous attack on the principles of representative democracy which would not have passed the lips of any other PM in modern times. Her attempt to present herself as the embodiment of the will of the people against elected MPs is straight out of the 1930s - utterly indefensible and a threat to democracy itself.
    If she had some popularity to become a demagogue it might have been a threat to democracy.

    Instead she just looks somewhat unhinged.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,725

    Of course it's unambiguous. She helpfully gives a bunch of examples of what she means,and she explains exactly what the context is.

    Sure, people who dislike her or dislike the Tories or hate Brexit decided to take offence by deliberately misunderstanding or (more likely) not even bothering to find out what she actually said. And it's true that a smarter politician would have been careful to give them less scope for such misrepresentation. But it's still misrepresentation.

    The same happened with Thatcher of course and the famous "no such thing as society" quote. Listen to the full quote and nobody reasonable could disagree with it. Take it out of context and its twisted to mean the opposite of what she was saying.
    That was an extraordinary wilful misrepresentation. She was saying the exact opposite of what her critics claimed she was saying. Her critics were, and are, quite simply lying about what she said.

    A similar lie about the her government's alleged destruction of British manufacturing and the coal industry, both of which declined less under her premiership than in the equivalent periods before and after, has become accepted 'truth'. Hey-ho.

    Having said that, Theresa May is no Margaret Thatcher!
    To be fair, Thatcher's fans also wilfully misrepresent much of her record.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    May is by far the worst in my lifetime. By far. She lost me entirely the moment she chose brinkmanship to force her deal, effectively holding the nation to ransom. Very poor, if not dangerous.
    To be fair May she tried to honour the core aims of most Leavers ie leave the EU, the Single Market and end free movement and leave the Customs Union and also to get an agreement and lay the ground for a future trade deal with the EU. She has managed to do so albeit with a temporary Customs Union backstop. The fact the diehards in her party refused to accept even minor compromise with the EU putting purity above all and the fact it seems a majority in Parliament will only accept a BINO stay in the SM and CU Brexit if it is to accept any Brexit at all is not her fault but theirs
    You’re wrong. Her inability to convince anyone apart from the ultra loyalist coupled with a deaf ear and a tendency towards command and control was her undoing. She has only herself to blame.
    In your view, I dises.
    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.
    Again, rubbish. May came into office with the county having voted for Brexit and deeply divided, she has got a Brexit Deal against the odds just fanatical Leavers for No Deal and fanatical Remainers for reversing Brexit completely will not accept any compromise
    Philip, it’s time to take the bins out.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    May is by far the worst in my lifetime. By far. She lost me entirely the moment she chose brinkmanship to force her deal, effectively holding the nation to ransom. Very poor, if not dangerous.
    To be fair May she tried to honour the core aims of most Leavers ie leave the EU, the Single Market and end free movement and leave the Customs Union and also to get an agreement and lay the ground for a future trade deal with the EU. She has managed to do so albeit with a temporary Customs Union backstop. The fact the diehards in her party refused to accept even minor compromise with the EU putting purity above all and the fact it seems a majority in Parliament will only accept a BINO stay in the SM and CU Brexit if it is to accept any Brexit at all is not her fault but theirs
    You’re wrong. Her inability to convince anyone apart from the ultra loyalist coupled with a deaf ear and a tendency towards command and control was her undoing. She has only herself to blame.
    May has no leadership or people skills but the Conservative party is not fit for purpose.
    Indeed. There's no way Jezza could be worse than the morons not running the country now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    She got ZERO and will continue to do so unfortunately for the plebs
    She got the Agreement agreed with the EU and it will still likely be the basis for Brexit whatever changes are proposed to the future relationship
    Any fool could get an agreement with the EU if you just give in to everything they demand.
    May has got a deal that leaves the single market, ends free movement and leaves the customs union once a FTA is agreed, just fanatics like you will not compromise and will end up with the BINO SM and CU or even no Brexit at all you deserve
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:
    39/39/10, without TIG.

    On the EU, 41% wish to Leave on 29th March, 36% wish to delay.
    Interesting. Suggests a failure to deliver Brexit would sink the Tories
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Jonathan said:

    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.

    That may well be so, but it's a bit of a stretch to place all the blame on her. Quite apart from anything else, anyone who voted Labour voted for a party which has teamed up with the ERG to torpedo an orderly implementation of the decision which Theresa May inherited. There's plenty of blame to throw around, and plenty of people to throw it at.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    So Mueller was a bit of a damp squib? Who'd've thunk it.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676

    Jonathan said:

    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.

    That may well be so, but it's a bit of a stretch to place all the blame on her. Quite apart from anything else, anyone who voted Labour voted for a party which has teamed up with the ERG to torpedo an orderly implementation of the decision which Theresa May inherited. There's plenty of blame to throw around, and plenty of people to throw it at.
    The buck stops with the PM.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    Jonathan said:

    <

    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.

    And her statement on Wednesday was an outrageous attack on the principles of representative democracy which would not have passed the lips of any other PM in modern times. Her attempt to present herself as the embodiment of the will of the people against elected MPs is straight out of the 1930s - utterly indefensible and a threat to democracy itself.
    If she had some popularity to become a demagogue it might have been a threat to democracy.

    Instead she just looks somewhat unhinged.
    Somewhat?

    Personally I can hear the flap of white coats...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Jonathan said:

    <

    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.

    And her statement on Wednesday was an outrageous attack on the principles of representative democracy which would not have passed the lips of any other PM in modern times. Her attempt to present herself as the embodiment of the will of the people against elected MPs is straight out of the 1930s - utterly indefensible and a threat to democracy itself.
    That is quite possibly one of the most overblown things I have ever read. May has been a terrible PM, but what people are reading into that statement is either deliberate hyperbole or really really unreasonable, and certainly undermines the massive amounts of criticism she very much deserves. It's so preposterous I burst out laughing when I read it.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    She got ZERO and will continue to do so unfortunately for the plebs
    She got the Agreement agreed with the EU and it will still likely be the basis for Brexit whatever changes are proposed to the future relationship
    Any fool could get an agreement with the EU if you just give in to everything they demand.
    She famously didn't give in. She got them to concede a UK-wide customs backstop.
    "Concede" a UK-wide backstop?

    She managed to get them to concede to bind us even tighter than they were even seeking in the first place.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:
    39/39/10, without TIG.

    On the EU, 41% wish to Leave on 29th March, 36% wish to delay.
    TIG on that poll is hitting Labour more than the Tories.

    As to Leave, Leave to what? The polling also shows over 50% tend to not want to Leave with No Deal either
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387

    Jonathan said:

    <

    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.

    And her statement on Wednesday was an outrageous attack on the principles of representative democracy which would not have passed the lips of any other PM in modern times. Her attempt to present herself as the embodiment of the will of the people against elected MPs is straight out of the 1930s - utterly indefensible and a threat to democracy itself.
    3%! approve of Parliament's handling of Brexit.

    The public would use much blunter language than she did.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    HYUFD said:

    Paxman is sprouting rubbish, Wellington, Rosebery, Balfour, Macdonald, Neville Chamberlain, Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse than Cameron and probably worse than May too

    Hard to argue with that. You can add Major and Douglas-Home as worse than Cameron without any doubt, and Blair of course given Iraq.

    May is poor, but a good part of her being poor is the impossible situation she finds herself in.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Norm said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:
    39/39/10, without TIG.

    On the EU, 41% wish to Leave on 29th March, 36% wish to delay.
    Interesting. Suggests a failure to deliver Brexit would sink the Tories
    The Tories are already sunk (and have been for a while) - And rightfully so. Hopefully they'll be out of office for 30 years like they were after the Corn Laws impasse.

    The only question now is how big Jezza's majority will be...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136

    viewcode said:

    Charles said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    matt said:

    matt said:

    I just bought Spice by the Spice Girls on iTunes.

    People buy music on iTunes? How quaint.
    You wot?
    Spotify. Apple Music. Tidal.
    Cleese. Milligan. Everett.

    Sessions.
    Brooke-Taylor. Garden. Oddie.

    Cricklewood.
    Truth or Dare.

    My Turn.

    I own a Goodies album and 2 Goodies singles.


    Who is next?
    I am always saddened when physically in places where fictional people lived. I've been in Cricklewood (Goodies) Surbiton (Good Life) University of East Anglia (A Very Peculiar Practice and - I shit you not - Avengers HQ) and they did not live up to their reputation, being almost entirely lacking in trandems, compost, and Thors.
    Surely it was Diana Rigg’s Avengers not Thor?
    After the Manhattan Stark Tower is damaged a Stark Industries building is repurposed as the upstate New York Avengers HQ. In the final scenes of Avengers: Age of Ultron there is a shot of Thor, Captain America and Tony Stark walking down a corridor with angled glass walls: they then exit the corridor into a field where Stark and Thor depart. There is then an external shot of a rectilinear building with a two-storey wall made entirely from glass. Captain America stands before the new team in that building, draws breath, says "Avengers..." and we smash-cut to black.

    The rectilinear building and the angled glass corridor onto a field are better known in IRL as The Sainsbury Centre for Visual Arts at the University of East Anglia. Here is an article about the filming[1] and here is the building's website[2].

    Nowadays filming locations have been replaced by CGI, but a CGI model of the building is still used when depicting the facility in the films. In the latest "Avengers: Endgame" trailer the big glass wall is clearly visible.

    [1] http://www.futurerulerofmidgard.com/filming-location/location-visit-avengers-headquarters-university-east-anglia/
    [2] https://scva.ac.uk/about/the-building
    I worked at Arkham Asylum between 2007 and 2010, but when I passed through the area a couple of weeks ago, it has been completely demolished to make way for flats :(
    This one? http://www.movie-locations.com/movies/b/Batman-Begins.php
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.

    That may well be so, but it's a bit of a stretch to place all the blame on her. Quite apart from anything else, anyone who voted Labour voted for a party which has teamed up with the ERG to torpedo an orderly implementation of the decision which Theresa May inherited. There's plenty of blame to throw around, and plenty of people to throw it at.
    The buck stops with the PM.
    That's not an excuse for everyone else to deny their part in it.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Sean_F said:

    Re, the Com Res poll, 3% approve of Parliament's handling of Brexit, 78% disapprove.

    Sean

    One has to wonder about the 3%.


  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    May is by far the worst in my lifetime. By far. She lost me entirely the moment she chose brinkmanship to force her deal, effectively holding the nation to ransom. Very poor, if not dangerous.
    To be fair May she tried to honour the core aims of most Leavers ie leave the EU, the Single Market and end free movement and leave the Customs Union and also to get an agreement and lay the ground for a future trade deal with the EU. She has managed to do so albeit with a temporary Customs Union backstop. The fact the diehards in her party refused to accept even minor compromise with the EU putting purity above all and the fact it seems a majority in Parliament will only accept a BINO stay in the SM and CU Brexit if it is to accept any Brexit at all is not her fault but theirs
    You’re wrong. Her inability to convince anyone apart from the ultra loyalist coupled with a deaf ear and a tendency towards command and control was her undoing. She has only herself to blame.
    In your view, I dises.
    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.
    Again, rubbish. May came into office with the county having voted for Brexit and deeply divided, she has got a Brexit Deal against the odds just fanatical Leavers for No Deal and fanatical Remainers for reversing Brexit completely will not accept any compromise
    She has not got a Brexit Deal.

    She has agreed a deal with the EU. Nothing else.

    She has failed to engage, consult, take account of HoC other than the DUP and the ERG. On a basic communication and political front she is the worst PM in who knows how many decades.

    In the name of God, go.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    GIN1138 said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    May is by far the worst in my lifetime. By far. She lost me entirely the moment she chose brinkmanship to force her deal, effectively holding the nation to ransom. Very poor, if not dangerous.
    To be fair May she tried to honour the core aims of most Leavers ie leave the EU, the Single Market and end free movement and leave the Customs Union and also to get an agreement and lay the ground for a future trade deal with the EU. She has managed to do so albeit with a temporary Customs Union backstop. The fact the diehards in her party refused to accept even minor compromise with the EU putting purity above all and the fact it seems a majority in Parliament will only accept a BINO stay in the SM and CU Brexit if it is to accept any Brexit at all is not her fault but theirs
    You’re wrong. Her inability to convince anyone apart from the ultra loyalist coupled with a deaf ear and a tendency towards command and control was her undoing. She has only herself to blame.
    May has no leadership or people skills but the Conservative party is not fit for purpose.
    Indeed. There's no way Jezza could be worse than the morons not running the country now.
    Oh yes there is!
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    Of course it's unambiguous. She helpfully gives a bunch of examples of what she means,and she explains exactly what the context is.

    Sure, people who dislike her or dislike the Tories or hate Brexit decided to take offence by deliberately misunderstanding or (more likely) not even bothering to find out what she actually said. And it's true that a smarter politician would have been careful to give them less scope for such misrepresentation. But it's still misrepresentation.

    The same happened with Thatcher of course and the famous "no such thing as society" quote. Listen to the full quote and nobody reasonable could disagree with it. Take it out of context and its twisted to mean the opposite of what she was saying.
    That was an extraordinary wilful misrepresentation. She was saying the exact opposite of what her critics claimed she was saying. Her critics were, and are, quite simply lying about what she said.

    A similar lie about the her government's alleged destruction of British manufacturing and the coal industry, both of which declined less under her premiership than in the equivalent periods before and after, has become accepted 'truth'. Hey-ho.

    Having said that, Theresa May is no Margaret Thatcher!
    To be fair, Thatcher's fans also wilfully misrepresent much of her record.
    Some of it, yes. But in the big picture, she saved the country from decades of decline.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.

    That may well be so, but it's a bit of a stretch to place all the blame on her. Quite apart from anything else, anyone who voted Labour voted for a party which has teamed up with the ERG to torpedo an orderly implementation of the decision which Theresa May inherited. There's plenty of blame to throw around, and plenty of people to throw it at.
    The buck stops with the PM.
    That's not an excuse for everyone else to deny their part in it.
    Minor players. The failed election, the brinkmanship, the utter failure to convince anyone but the loyalists. This is a woeful tale written and directed by number 10. She is responsible. And with that sweet dreams.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    GIN1138 said:

    Norm said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:
    39/39/10, without TIG.

    On the EU, 41% wish to Leave on 29th March, 36% wish to delay.
    Interesting. Suggests a failure to deliver Brexit would sink the Tories
    The Tories are already sunk (and have been for a while) - And rightfully so. Hopefully they'll be out of office for 30 years like they were after the Corn Laws impasse.

    The only question now is how big Jezza's majority will be...
    Except in the Corn Laws they had the decency to admit the problem and split.

    This lot want to pretend to stay together despite a fundamental difference of epic proportions.

  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited March 2019

    She has failed to engage, consult, take account of HoC other than the DUP and the ERG.


    Strange then that the DUP and ERG are refusing to vote for the deal.


    As for consulting, what can you do when the opposition leader walks out of any meeting on the flimsiest of excuses? His response to attempts for a crossparty approaches: sent her a signed copy of the Labour manifesto.

    Corbyn was going to vote down anything the government proposed, regardless of the damage.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537
    HYUFD said:



    The FT backed Kinnock for PM in 1992, enough said about its political judgement or lack of it!

    You feel that it worked out well with John Major?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.

    That may well be so, but it's a bit of a stretch to place all the blame on her. Quite apart from anything else, anyone who voted Labour voted for a party which has teamed up with the ERG to torpedo an orderly implementation of the decision which Theresa May inherited. There's plenty of blame to throw around, and plenty of people to throw it at.
    The buck stops with the PM.
    That's not an excuse for everyone else to deny their part in it.
    Minor players. The failed election, the brinkmanship, the utter failure to convince anyone but the loyalists. This is a woeful tale written and directed by number 10. She is responsible. And with that sweet dreams.
    Utter failure is correct.

    I would add the words 'total and'.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.

    That may well be so, but it's a bit of a stretch to place all the blame on her. Quite apart from anything else, anyone who voted Labour voted for a party which has teamed up with the ERG to torpedo an orderly implementation of the decision which Theresa May inherited. There's plenty of blame to throw around, and plenty of people to throw it at.
    The buck stops with the PM.
    That's not an excuse for everyone else to deny their part in it.
    Minor players. The failed election, the brinkmanship, the utter failure to convince anyone but the loyalists. This is a woeful tale written and directed by number 10. She is responsible. And with that sweet dreams.
    Minor players have colluded to veto her way forward. They are more responsible than she is, bad though she is.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    GIN1138 said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    May is by far the worst in my lifetime. By far. She lost me entirely the moment she chose brinkmanship to force her deal, effectively holding the nation to ransom. Very poor, if not dangerous.
    To be fair May she tried to honour the core aims of most Leavers ie leave the EU, the Single Market and end free movement and leave the Customs Union and also to get an agreement and lay the ground for a future trade deal with the EU. She has managed to do so albeit with a temporary Customs Union backstop. The fact the diehards in her party refused to accept even minor compromise with the EU putting purity above all and the fact it seems a majority in Parliament will only accept a BINO stay in the SM and CU Brexit if it is to accept any Brexit at all is not her fault but theirs
    You’re wrong. Her inability to convince anyone apart from the ultra loyalist coupled with a deaf ear and a tendency towards command and control was her undoing. She has only herself to blame.
    May has no leadership or people skills but the Conservative party is not fit for purpose.
    Indeed. There's no way Jezza could be worse than the morons not running the country now.
    Oh yes there is!
    So we keep hearing yet day by day the Tories mismanagement of the country gets worse.

    So much so we've now reached a point where after spending two years telling the world we're leaving the EU on 29th March the whole thing is called off and kicked into the never, never with one week to go.

    There is absolutely no way Jezza could turn the country into this big of an international laughing stock...
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    edited March 2019
    GIN1138 said:

    Norm said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:
    39/39/10, without TIG.

    On the EU, 41% wish to Leave on 29th March, 36% wish to delay.
    Interesting. Suggests a failure to deliver Brexit would sink the Tories
    The Tories are already sunk (and have been for a while) - And rightfully so. Hopefully they'll be out of office for 30 years like they were after the Corn Laws impasse.

    The only question now is how big Jezza's majority will be...
    Not necessarily. The Tories polling has held up partly because of the Corbyn factor but also because the public believe(d) they would deliver Brexit. More pertinately the public are now at the end of their tether over Brexit and I suspect a significant delay now will see their ratings go into freefall.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    May is by far the worst in my lifetime. By far. She lost me entirely the moment she chose brinkmanship to force her deal, effectively holding the nation to ransom. Very poor, if not dangerous.
    To be fair May she tried to honour the core aims of most Leavers ie leave the EU, the Single Market and end free movement and leave the Customs Union and also to get an agreement and lay the ground for a future trade deal with the EU. She has managed to do so albeit with a temporary Customs Union backstop. The fact the diehards in her party refused to accept even minor compromise with the EU putting purity above all and the fact it seems a majority in Parliament will only accept a BINO stay in the SM and CU Brexit if it is to accept any Brexit at all is not her fault but theirs
    You’re wrong. me.
    May has no leadership or people skills but the Conservative party is not fit for purpose.
    Indeed. There's no way Jezza could be worse than the morons not running the country now.
    Oh yes there is!
    So we keep hearing yet day by day the Tories mismanagement of the country gets worse.

    So much so we've now reached a point where after spending two years telling the world we're leaving the EU on 29th March the whole thing is called off and kicked into the never, never with one week to go.

    There is absolutely no way Jezza could turn the country into this big of an international laughing stock...
    Oh absolutely he could, he could make Venezuela look a model of good governance and we are still likely to leave even if on BINO terms
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,725

    Of course it's unambiguous. She helpfully gives a bunch of examples of what she means,and she explains exactly what the context is.

    Sure, people who dislike her or dislike the Tories or hate Brexit decided to take offence by deliberately misunderstanding or (more likely) not even bothering to find out what she actually said. And it's true that a smarter politician would have been careful to give them less scope for such misrepresentation. But it's still misrepresentation.

    The same happened with Thatcher of course and the famous "no such thing as society" quote. Listen to the full quote and nobody reasonable could disagree with it. Take it out of context and its twisted to mean the opposite of what she was saying.
    That was an extraordinary wilful misrepresentation. She was saying the exact opposite of what her critics claimed she was saying. Her critics were, and are, quite simply lying about what she said.

    A similar lie about the her government's alleged destruction of British manufacturing and the coal industry, both of which declined less under her premiership than in the equivalent periods before and after, has become accepted 'truth'. Hey-ho.

    Having said that, Theresa May is no Margaret Thatcher!
    To be fair, Thatcher's fans also wilfully misrepresent much of her record.
    Some of it, yes. But in the big picture, she saved the country from decades of decline.
    The personality cult of the fallen leader that was synonymous with opposition to Maastricht and therefore the EU, arguably led to the Tory party inflicting Brexit on us.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Andrew said:

    She has failed to engage, consult, take account of HoC other than the DUP and the ERG.


    Strange then that the DUP and ERG are refusing to vote for the deal.


    As for consulting, what can you do when the opposition leader walks out of any meeting on the flimsiest of excuses? His response to attempts for a crossparty approaches: sent her a signed copy of the Labour manifesto.

    Corbyn was going to vote down anything the government proposed, regardless of the damage.
    Indeed. But his party is also hopelessly split. A more social aware, communicative, nimble and able PM could have done a deal with non-Corbynista.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708


    "Concede" a UK-wide backstop?

    She managed to get them to concede to bind us even tighter than they were even seeking in the first place.

    This is the weird thing about it, she got a deal that the British couldn't have got if they'd actually wanted it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    May is by far the worst in my lifetime. By far. She lost me entirely the moment she chose brinkmanship to force her deal, effectively holding the nation to ransom. Very poor, if not dangerous.
    To be fair May she tried to honour the core aims of most Leavers ie leave the EU, the Single Market and end free movement and leave the Customs Union and also to get an agreement and lay the ground for a future trade deal with the EU. She has managed to do so albeit with a temporary Customs Union backstop. The fact the diehards in her party refused to accept even minor compromise with the EU putting purity above all and the fact it seems a majority in Parliament will only accept a BINO stay in the SM and CU Brexit if it is to accept any Brexit at all is not her fault but theirs
    You’re wrong. Her inability to convince anyone apart from the ultra loyalist coupled with a deaf ear and a tendency towards command and control was her undoing. She has only herself to blame.
    May has no leadership or people skills but the Conservative party is not fit for purpose.
    Indeed. There's no way Jezza could be worse than the morons not running the country now.
    Oh yes there is!
    So we keep hearing yet day by day the Tories mismanagement of the country gets worse.

    So much so we've now reached a point where after spending two years telling the world we're leaving the EU on 29th March the whole thing is called off and kicked into the never, never with one week to go.

    There is absolutely no way Jezza could turn the country into this big of an international laughing stock...
    The public seem to disagree.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    GIN1138 said:

    So we keep hearing yet day by day the Tories mismanagement of the country gets worse.

    So much so we've now reached a point where after spending two years telling the world we're leaving the EU on 29th March the whole thing is called off and kicked into the never, never with one week to go.

    There is absolutely no way Jezza could turn the country into this big of an international laughing stock...

    You don't seem to have noticed that it is Jezza and his pals in the ERG who have prevented an orderly implementation of Brexit and left us in crisis. It's bizarre, verging on bonkers, to blame Mrs May for the parliamentary voting record of the opposition and of rebels defying her whip.

    Meanwhile the actual management of the country and especially the economy is (to everyone's surprise, including mine) remarkably good.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Norm said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Norm said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:
    39/39/10, without TIG.

    On the EU, 41% wish to Leave on 29th March, 36% wish to delay.
    Interesting. Suggests a failure to deliver Brexit would sink the Tories
    The Tories are already sunk (and have been for a while) - And rightfully so. Hopefully they'll be out of office for 30 years like they were after the Corn Laws impasse.

    The only question now is how big Jezza's majority will be...
    Not necessarily. The Tories polling has held up partly because of the Corbyn factor but also because the public believe(d) they would deliver Brexit. More pertinately the public are now at the end of their tether over Brexit and I suspect a significant delay now will see their ratings go into freefall.
    Wonder when the first poll taking them under 30% will occur?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219
    GIN1138 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:
    39/39/10, without TIG.

    On the EU, 41% wish to Leave on 29th March, 36% wish to delay.
    LOL! A majority want to LEAVE in one weeks time and the moronic Tories after spending two ******* years telling the world we're leaving on 29th March have now called it off.

    What a complete and utter shower of shit.
    The main reason May's deal needs to pass, we will get Corbyn now
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187

    HYUFD said:

    Paxman is sprouting rubbish, Wellington, Rosebery, Balfour, Macdonald, Neville Chamberlain, Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse than Cameron and probably worse than May too

    Hard to argue with that. You can add Major and Douglas-Home as worse than Cameron without any doubt, and Blair of course given Iraq.

    May is poor, but a good part of her being poor is the impossible situation she finds herself in.
    Major and Home were actually fairly good PMs in my view, Home certainly did little damage even if he did not do much either. Cameron minus Brexit was better than both as was Blair minus Iraq.

    May has done a fair job given the awful situation she was handed in my view, we could by now be about to go to No Deal or be heading for a reverse of Brexit and near civil war
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    GIN1138 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:
    39/39/10, without TIG.

    On the EU, 41% wish to Leave on 29th March, 36% wish to delay.
    LOL! A majority want to LEAVE in one weeks time and the moronic Tories after spending two ******* years telling the world we're leaving on 29th March have now called it off.

    What a complete and utter shower of shit.
    Yet further into the poll only 24% want to Leave on 29th March with no deal . So it depends how you ask the question .
  • dotsdots Posts: 615

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.

    That may well be so, but it's a bit of a stretch to place all the blame on her. Quite apart from anything else, anyone who voted Labour voted for a party which has teamed up with the ERG to torpedo an orderly implementation of the decision which Theresa May inherited. There's plenty of blame to throw around, and plenty of people to throw it at.
    The buck stops with the PM.
    That's not an excuse for everyone else to deny their part in it.
    I hear what you saying in your posts, no excuse for anyone to deny their part in this mess simply blame others. I agree. But surely the big misstep May has made this week is to do precisely that? And in no small way either. And this is the argument with which you choose to defend her?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited March 2019
    dots said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.

    That may well be so, but it's a bit of a stretch to place all the blame on her. Quite apart from anything else, anyone who voted Labour voted for a party which has teamed up with the ERG to torpedo an orderly implementation of the decision which Theresa May inherited. There's plenty of blame to throw around, and plenty of people to throw it at.
    The buck stops with the PM.
    That's not an excuse for everyone else to deny their part in it.
    I hear what you saying in your posts, no excuse for anyone to deny their part in this mess simply blame others. I agree. But surely the big misstep May has made this week is to do precisely that? And in no small way either. And this is the argument with which you choose to defend her?
    I'm not defending her. I'm putting things in perspective. She's useless, especially in the current situation of a hung parliament and a divided nation. In normal circumstances, with a majority and without an existential and irreconcilable crisis to handle, she's be an OK PM, a bit better than Brown, say (which isn't saying much).
  • dotsdots Posts: 615
    Pulpstar said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:
    39/39/10, without TIG.

    On the EU, 41% wish to Leave on 29th March, 36% wish to delay.
    LOL! A majority want to LEAVE in one weeks time and the moronic Tories after spending two ******* years telling the world we're leaving on 29th March have now called it off.

    What a complete and utter shower of shit.
    The main reason May's deal needs to pass, we will get Corbyn now
    Current polling and gut instinct really telling you that?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136
    Charles said:

    viewcode said:

    Charles said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    matt said:

    matt said:

    I just bought Spice by the Spice Girls on iTunes.

    People buy music on iTunes? How quaint.
    You wot?
    Spotify. Apple Music. Tidal.
    Cleese. Milligan. Everett.

    Sessions.
    Brooke-Taylor. Garden. Oddie.

    Cricklewood.
    Truth or Dare.

    My Turn.

    I own a Goodies album and 2 Goodies singles.


    Who is next?
    I am always saddened when physically in places where fictional people lived. I've been in Cricklewood (Goodies) Surbiton (Good Life) University of East Anglia (A Very Peculiar Practice and - I shit you not - Avengers HQ) and they did not live up to their reputation, being almost entirely lacking in trandems, compost, and Thors.
    Surely it was Diana Rigg’s Avengers not Thor?
    After the Manhattan Stark Tower is damaged a Stark Industries building is repurposed as the upstate New York Avengers HQ. In the final scenes of Avengers: Age of Ultron there is a shot of Thor, Captain America and Tony Stark walking down a corridor with angled glass walls: they then exit the corridor into a field where Stark and Thor depart. There is then an external shot of a rectilinear building with a two-storey wall made entirely from glass. Captain America stands before the new team in that building, draws breath, says "Avengers..." and we smash-cut to black.

    The rectilinear building and the angled glass corridor onto a field are better known in IRL as The Sainsbury Centre for Visual Arts at the University of East Anglia. Here is an article about the filming[1] and here is the building's website[2].

    Nowadays filming locations have been replaced by CGI, but a CGI model of the building is still used when depicting the facility in the films. In the latest "Avengers: Endgame" trailer the big glass wall is clearly visible.

    [1] http://www.futurerulerofmidgard.com/filming-location/location-visit-avengers-headquarters-university-east-anglia/
    [2] https://scva.ac.uk/about/the-building
    They borrowed my office for Bridget Jones’ Diary.

    Somehow that sounds less impressive 🤣
    :)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187
    edited March 2019
    GIN1138 said:

    Norm said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:
    39/39/10, without TIG.

    On the EU, 41% wish to Leave on 29th March, 36% wish to delay.
    Interesting. Suggests a failure to deliver Brexit would sink the Tories
    The Tories are already sunk (and have been for a while) - And rightfully so. Hopefully they'll be out of office for 30 years like they were after the Corn Laws impasse.

    The only question now is how big Jezza's majority will be...
    If Jezza gets in it will not be with a majority but on the backs of the SNP.

    Do not forget either that even after Corn Law repeal in 1846 the Tories won most seats in both the 1847 and 1852 elections (even if they were only able to form a government for 1 year during that time in 1852), it was only after Palmerston won a majority for the Liberals in 1857 the Liberal electoral dominance until Disraeli's win in 1874 really began.

    Plus even then the Tories formed minority governments from 1858-59 and 1866-68
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:
    TIG on that poll is hitting Labour more than the Tories.

    Think you're misreading it - with TIG in the question, Labour is 1 point ahead, without them, it's a tie. All MOE, of course, but basically TIG is taking about 2% from each major party (Con/Lab/LD), if they are assumed to stand everywhere. I think they need lots more defections to have much chance.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,725
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387

    Andrew said:

    She has failed to engage, consult, take account of HoC other than the DUP and the ERG.


    Strange then that the DUP and ERG are refusing to vote for the deal.


    As for consulting, what can you do when the opposition leader walks out of any meeting on the flimsiest of excuses? His response to attempts for a crossparty approaches: sent her a signed copy of the Labour manifesto.

    Corbyn was going to vote down anything the government proposed, regardless of the damage.
    Indeed. But his party is also hopelessly split. A more social aware, communicative, nimble and able PM could have done a deal with non-Corbynista.
    I don't know who these opposition MP's are who are willing to do a deal over Brexit. They've kept mighty quiet so far.

    Plenty of opposition MP's have been vocal in their opposition to Brexit.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited March 2019

    HYUFD said:

    Paxman is sprouting rubbish, Wellington, Rosebery, Balfour, Macdonald, Neville Chamberlain, Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse than Cameron and probably worse than May too

    Hard to argue with that. You can add Major and Douglas-Home as worse than Cameron without any doubt, and Blair of course given Iraq.

    May is poor, but a good part of her being poor is the impossible situation she finds herself in.
    I think it's the other way round. May is bad. She is stubborn, untrustworthy and dishonest, but because of the impossible situation, it didn't make much difference in the end. Brexit would still have been an utter shitshow under a PM vastly more competent than she is.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    MPs have dug themselves a hole. If these indicative votes show no majority for anything then they will look utterly stupid . In that case they should back Mays deal . And all this drama over the future relationship which isn’t legally binding.
  • dotsdots Posts: 615

    dots said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.

    That may well be so, but it's a bit of a stretch to place all the blame on her. Quite apart from anything else, anyone who voted Labour voted for a party which has teamed up with the ERG to torpedo an orderly implementation of the decision which Theresa May inherited. There's plenty of blame to throw around, and plenty of people to throw it at.
    The buck stops with the PM.
    That's not an excuse for everyone else to deny their part in it.
    I hear what you saying in your posts, no excuse for anyone to deny their part in this mess simply blame others. I agree. But surely the big misstep May has made this week is to do precisely that? And in no small way either. And this is the argument with which you choose to defend her?
    I'm not defending her. I'm putting things in perspective. She's useless, especially in the current situation of a hung parliament and a divided nation. In normal circumstances, with a majority and without an existential and irreconcilable crisis to handle, she's be an OK PM, a bit better than Brown say,
    But on this particular point, you admit she was the one who kicked off the most outrageous blame game in British political history?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited March 2019

    GIN1138 said:

    So we keep hearing yet day by day the Tories mismanagement of the country gets worse.

    So much so we've now reached a point where after spending two years telling the world we're leaving the EU on 29th March the whole thing is called off and kicked into the never, never with one week to go.

    There is absolutely no way Jezza could turn the country into this big of an international laughing stock...

    You don't seem to have noticed that it is Jezza and his pals in the ERG who have prevented an orderly implementation of Brexit and left us in crisis. It's bizarre, verging on bonkers, to blame Mrs May for the parliamentary voting record of the opposition and of rebels defying her whip.

    Meanwhile the actual management of the country and especially the economy is (to everyone's surprise, including mine) remarkably good.
    Oh don't get me wrong I'm not saying the ERG (and hard core Tory Remainers) aren't at fault as well. I've got plenty of ordure to go round here...

    The entire party shares the blame for the state things have got to. They should have passed MV2 as I said at the time. But obviously May shares the majority of the blame as shes PM and she is shockingly awful at it.

    As for Labour, they are just doing what Oppositions do. Can't fault them for that.

    Ultimately the buck stops with the Tories. All they had to do was get us out, on time, on 29th March with some sort of deal. And they've totally ****** it up!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387
    nico67 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:
    39/39/10, without TIG.

    On the EU, 41% wish to Leave on 29th March, 36% wish to delay.
    LOL! A majority want to LEAVE in one weeks time and the moronic Tories after spending two ******* years telling the world we're leaving on 29th March have now called it off.

    What a complete and utter shower of shit.
    Yet further into the poll only 24% want to Leave on 29th March with no deal . So it depends how you ask the question .
    Another 12% wish to Leave on 29/3 with May's deal, but I agree how you ask the question makes a big difference.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187

    HYUFD said:



    The FT backed Kinnock for PM in 1992, enough said about its political judgement or lack of it!

    You feel that it worked out well with John Major?
    Major is a much underestimated PM as his successors have proved
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    May is by far the worst in my lifetime. By far. She lost me entirely the moment she chose brinkmanship to force her deal, effectively holding the nation to ransom. Very poor, if not dangerous.
    To be fair May she tried to honour the core aims of most Leavers ie leave the EU, the Single Market and end free movement and leave the Customs Union and also to get an agreement and lay the ground for a futheirs
    You’re wrong. Her inability to convince anyone apart from the ultra loyalist coupled with a deaf ear and a tendency towards command and control was her undoing. She has only herself to blame.
    In your view, I dises.
    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.
    Again, rubbish. May came into office with the county having voted for Brexit and deeply divided, she has got a Brexit Deal against the odds just fanatical Leavers for No Deal and fanatical Remainers for reversing Brexit completely will not accept any compromise
    She has not got a Brexit Deal.

    She has agreed a deal with the EU. Nothing else.

    She has failed to engage, consult, take account of HoC other than the DUP and the ERG. On a basic communication and political front she is the worst PM in who knows how many decades.

    In the name of God, go.

    She has got a WA which the Commons will in the end likely vote for with a more BINO PD
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    dots said:

    dots said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.

    That may well be so, but it's a bit of a stretch to place all the blame on her. Quite apart from anything else, anyone who voted Labour voted for a party which has teamed up with the ERG to torpedo an orderly implementation of the decision which Theresa May inherited. There's plenty of blame to throw around, and plenty of people to throw it at.
    The buck stops with the PM.
    That's not an excuse for everyone else to deny their part in it.
    I hear what you saying in your posts, no excuse for anyone to deny their part in this mess simply blame others. I agree. But surely the big misstep May has made this week is to do precisely that? And in no small way either. And this is the argument with which you choose to defend her?
    I'm not defending her. I'm putting things in perspective. She's useless, especially in the current situation of a hung parliament and a divided nation. In normal circumstances, with a majority and without an existential and irreconcilable crisis to handle, she's be an OK PM, a bit better than Brown say,
    But on this particular point, you admit she was the one who kicked off the most outrageous blame game in British political history?
    I've no idea why she even bothered to make that statement, which was ill-judged and bizarre. She would have done much better just to have gone to bed.

    However, the reaction of MPs was utterly childish, totally irresponsible if it has affected their votes in a matter of grave national importance. Are we really saddled with MPs who behave like 13-year olds and go off in a strop at this crucial moment because their egos weren't properly stroked? (Yes, I'm afraid we are).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Over now to Chris Williamson, for his view on this.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187
    GIN1138 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:
    39/39/10, without TIG.

    On the EU, 41% wish to Leave on 29th March, 36% wish to delay.
    LOL! A majority want to LEAVE in one weeks time and the moronic Tories after spending two ******* years telling the world we're leaving on 29th March have now called it off.

    What a complete and utter shower of shit.
    Since when was 41% a majority and as nico67 says only 24% want to leave with No Deal
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187
    GIN1138 said:

    Norm said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Norm said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:
    39/39/10, without TIG.

    On the EU, 41% wish to Leave on 29th March, 36% wish to delay.
    Interesting. Suggests a failure to deliver Brexit would sink the Tories
    The Tories are already sunk (and have been for a while) - And rightfully so. Hopefully they'll be out of office for 30 years like they were after the Corn Laws impasse.

    The only question now is how big Jezza's majority will be...
    Not necessarily. The Tories polling has held up partly because of the Corbyn factor but also because the public believe(d) they would deliver Brexit. More pertinately the public are now at the end of their tether over Brexit and I suspect a significant delay now will see their ratings go into freefall.
    Wonder when the first poll taking them under 30% will occur?
    It won't, plus remember most Tory MPs have already voted to keep No Deal on the table and to not extend Art 50 and leave on March 29th, we are only leaving because most Labour, LD and SNP MPs voted to extend Art 50 and rule out No Deal, joined by a minority of Tory MPs
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219
    dots said:

    Pulpstar said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:
    39/39/10, without TIG.

    On the EU, 41% wish to Leave on 29th March, 36% wish to delay.
    LOL! A majority want to LEAVE in one weeks time and the moronic Tories after spending two ******* years telling the world we're leaving on 29th March have now called it off.

    What a complete and utter shower of shit.
    The main reason May's deal needs to pass, we will get Corbyn now
    Current polling and gut instinct really telling you that?
    No brexit = Tory freefall
  • Over now to Chris Williamson, for his view on this.
    "I showed you Winston Churchill's spoon on my Cadillac, which I asked you to touch."

    This is the gift that keeps on giving.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    The FT backed Kinnock for PM in 1992, enough said about its political judgement or lack of it!

    You feel that it worked out well with John Major?
    Major is a much underestimated PM as his successors have proved
    He had a number of virtues. But the Conservatives would have been better off if Kinnock had won.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    dots said:

    dots said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.

    That may well be so, but it's a bit of a stretch to place all the blame on her. Quite apart from anything else, anyone who voted Labour voted for a party which has teamed up with the ERG to torpedo an orderly implementation of the decision which Theresa May inherited. There's plenty of blame to throw around, and plenty of people to throw it at.
    The buck stops with the PM.
    That's not an excuse for everyone else to deny their part in it.
    I hear what you saying in your posts, no excuse for anyone to deny their part in this mess simply blame others. I agree. But surely the big misstep May has made this week is to do precisely that? And in no small way either. And this is the argument with which you choose to defend her?
    I'm not defending her. I'm putting things in perspective. She's useless, especially in the current situation of a hung parliament and a divided nation. In normal circumstances, with a majority and without an existential and irreconcilable crisis to handle, she's be an OK PM, a bit better than Brown say,
    But on this particular point, you admit she was the one who kicked off the most outrageous blame game in British political history?
    I've no idea why she even bothered to make that statement, which was ill-judged and bizarre. She would have done much better just to have gone to bed.

    However, the reaction of MPs was utterly childish, totally irresponsible if it has affected their votes in a matter of grave national importance. Are we really saddled with MPs who behave like 13-year olds and go off in a strop at this crucial moment because their egos weren't properly stroked? (Yes, I'm afraid we are).
    If she had just gone to bed the talking point of the evening would have been Corbyn's refusal to even be in the same room as Chuka. That would have summed up wonderfully just how irresponsible MPs are behaving better than anything she could have ever said.

    Instead May took all the pressure off Corbyn and made it about herself.
  • dotsdots Posts: 615
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    May is by far the worst in my lifetime. By far. She lost me entirely the moment she chose brinkmanship to force her deal, effectively holding the nation to ransom. Very poor, if not dangerous.
    To be fair May she tried to honour the core aims of most Leavers ie leave the EU, the Single Market and end free movement and leave the Customs Union and also to get an agreement and lay the ground for a future trade deal with the EU. She has managed to do so albeit with a temporary Customs Union backstop. The fact the diehards in her party refused to accept even minor compromise with the EU putting purity above all and the fact it seems a majority in Parliament will only accept a BINO stay in the SM and CU Brexit if it is to accept any Brexit at all is not her fault but theirs
    You are all talking about her as if she is dead. ☹️

    In a couple of weeks time she can still be there presiding over a clean brexit break with EU, delivering brexit.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    Over now to Chris Williamson, for his view on this.
    "I showed you Winston Churchill's spoon on my Cadillac, which I asked you to touch."

    This is the gift that keeps on giving.
    This is one of his quiet days:

    "NASA seriously considered the idea of putting Michael Jackson on the moon during the height of his career, according to outrageous claims made by famed TV magician and illusionist Uri Geller."

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/1095314/nasa-shock-plan-michael-jackson-leaving-neverland-moon-spt
  • Charles said:

    viewcode said:

    Charles said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    matt said:

    matt said:

    I just bought Spice by the Spice Girls on iTunes.

    People buy music on iTunes? How quaint.
    You wot?
    Spotify. Apple Music. Tidal.
    Cleese. Milligan. Everett.

    Sessions.
    Brooke-Taylor. Garden. Oddie.

    Cricklewood.
    Truth or Dare.

    My Turn.

    I own a Goodies album and 2 Goodies singles.


    Who is next?
    I am always saddened when physically in places where fictional people lived. I've been in Cricklewood (Goodies) Surbiton (Good Life) University of East Anglia (A Very Peculiar Practice and - I shit you not - Avengers HQ) and they did not live up to their reputation, being almost entirely lacking in trandems, compost, and Thors.
    Surely it was Diana Rigg’s Avengers not Thor?
    After the Manhattan Stark Tower is damaged a Stark Industries building is repurposed as the upstate New York Avengers HQ. In the final scenes of Avengers: Age of Ultron there is a shot of Thor, Captain America and Tony Stark walking down a corridor with angled glass walls: they then exit the corridor into a field where Stark and Thor depart. There is then an external shot of a rectilinear building with a two-storey wall made entirely from glass. Captain America stands before the new team in that building, draws breath, says "Avengers..." and we smash-cut to black.

    The rectilinear building and the angled glass corridor onto a field are better known in IRL as The Sainsbury Centre for Visual Arts at the University of East Anglia. Here is an article about the filming[1] and here is the building's website[2].

    Nowadays filming locations have been replaced by CGI, but a CGI model of the building is still used when depicting the facility in the films. In the latest "Avengers: Endgame" trailer the big glass wall is clearly visible.

    [1] http://www.futurerulerofmidgard.com/filming-location/location-visit-avengers-headquarters-university-east-anglia/
    [2] https://scva.ac.uk/about/the-building
    They borrowed my office for Bridget Jones’ Diary.

    Somehow that sounds less impressive 🤣
    The exterior of the building I work in in Glasgow was used as a New York hotel for Patrick Melrose.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    So after having a night out on the town, it seems clear that no one other than the political obsessives give a flying fuck about brexit. Even in the most remainer place in the country (Old Street) no one seemed to care. I met one guy (a friend of a friend) who was going to the peoples's march, everyone else was in the "who really gives a fuck" bracket.

    From what I could tell, everyone wants a resolution and few people care what the resolution is, deal, a revoke or no deal.
  • dotsdots Posts: 615

    dots said:

    dots said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    May leaves the country in a far worse state than she found it, more divided and confused than at any point in my lifetime.

    That may well be so, but it's a bit of a stretch to place all the blame on her. Quite apart from anything else, anyone who voted Labour voted for a party which has teamed up with the ERG to torpedo an orderly implementation of the decision which Theresa May inherited. There's plenty of blame to throw around, and plenty of people to throw it at.
    The buck stops with the PM.
    That's not an excuse for everyone else to deny their part in it.
    I hear what you saying in your posts, no excuse for anyone to deny their part in this mess simply blame others. I agree. But surely the big misstep May has made this week is to do precisely that? And in no small way either. And this is the argument with which you choose to defend her?
    I'm not defending her. I'm putting things in perspective. She's useless, especially in the current situation of a hung parliament and a divided nation. In normal circumstances, with a majority and without an existential and irreconcilable crisis to handle, she's be an OK PM, a bit better than Brown say,
    But on this particular point, you admit she was the one who kicked off the most outrageous blame game in British political history?
    I've no idea why she even bothered to make that statement, which was ill-judged and bizarre. She would have done much better just to have gone to bed.

    However, the reaction of MPs was utterly childish, totally irresponsible if it has affected their votes in a matter of grave national importance. Are we really saddled with MPs who behave like 13-year olds and go off in a strop at this crucial moment because their egos weren't properly stroked? (Yes, I'm afraid we are).
    If she had just gone to bed the talking point of the evening would have been Corbyn's refusal to even be in the same room as Chuka. That would have summed up wonderfully just how irresponsible MPs are behaving better than anything she could have ever said.

    Instead May took all the pressure off Corbyn and made it about herself.
    She was just unlucky her voice returned this week.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    dots said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    May has got a Withdrawal Agreement which will still likely be the basis of Brexit itself, even if the future relationship ends up more SM and CU BINO.

    The Washington Post is a Brexit hating, Trump hating liberal globalist paper, in my lifetime Brown was certainly worse than May
    ROFL. May is in her league of her own. Anthony Eden is smiling now.
    Eden, Heath, Callaghan, Brown were all worse PMs than May in my view. At the end of the day she got the Withdrawal Agreement and if it ends up a bit more BINO than she intended, so be it, she will have delivered Brexit without catastrophe and can depart with dignity and leave someone else to negotiate the future relationship
    May is by far the worst in my lifetime. By far. She lost me entirely the moment she chose brinkmanship to force her deal, effectively holding the nation to ransom. Very poor, if not dangerous.
    To be fair May she tried to honour the core aims of most Leavers ie leave the EU, the Single Market and end free movement and leave the Customs Union and also to get an agreement and lay the ground for a future trade deal with the EU. She has managed to do so albeit with a temporary Customs Union backstop. The fact the diehards in her party refused to accept even minor compromise with the EU putting purity above all and the fact it seems a majority in Parliament will only accept a BINO stay in the SM and CU Brexit if it is to accept any Brexit at all is not her fault but theirs
    You are all talking about her as if she is dead. ☹️

    In a couple of weeks time she can still be there presiding over a clean brexit break with EU, delivering brexit.
    Beyond :lol:
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387
    Pulpstar said:

    dots said:

    Pulpstar said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:
    39/39/10, without TIG.

    On the EU, 41% wish to Leave on 29th March, 36% wish to delay.
    LOL! A majority want to LEAVE in one weeks time and the moronic Tories after spending two ******* years telling the world we're leaving on 29th March have now called it off.

    What a complete and utter shower of shit.
    The main reason May's deal needs to pass, we will get Corbyn now
    Current polling and gut instinct really telling you that?
    No brexit = Tory freefall
    If the Tories revoke Brexit or hold a second referendum, that's an extinction event for them.

    If they're thrown out of office by a Commons which then does this, that's a very different matter.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187
    Pulpstar said:

    dots said:

    Pulpstar said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:
    39/39/10, without TIG.

    On the EU, 41% wish to Leave on 29th March, 36% wish to delay.
    LOL! A majority want to LEAVE in one weeks time and the moronic Tories after spending two ******* years telling the world we're leaving on 29th March have now called it off.

    What a complete and utter shower of shit.
    The main reason May's deal needs to pass, we will get Corbyn now
    Current polling and gut instinct really telling you that?
    No brexit = Tory freefall
    It won't be No Brexit, more likely BINO and of course most Tory MPs have voted to keep No Deal on the table and against extending Article 50 anyway
This discussion has been closed.