Undefined discussion subject.

Options
1…1415161719

Comments

  • WhisperingOracle
    WhisperingOracle Posts: 10,470
    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: Lab gain in Kensington & Chelsea now expected, source on ground says.
    That's KENSINGTON AND CHELSEA, people.
    If only Portillo was still MP.

    Wow .
  • Pong
    Pong Posts: 4,693
    I was right on turnout, at least!
  • MarqueeMark
    MarqueeMark Posts: 55,459
    Does the Exit poll say the Tories will lose Swindon South?
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    This is going to be a very long night indeed.
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    MaxPB said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    MaxPB said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Swindon North - UKIP going largely to Labour it seems

    Yes all of those Lab -> UKIP voters are swing back to Labour instead of the Tories.
    As I said they may do...
    It was the house thieving policy that did it.
    It really wasn't, it was the giveaway manifesto of Corbo.
  • Artist
    Artist Posts: 1,893
    Battersea next interesting seat
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2017
    All the TV channels have missed the Washington & Sunderland West declaration.
  • TravelJunkie
    TravelJunkie Posts: 431
    I voted ukip in 2015 voters leave. I would never vote for may because she was home secretary and immigration went up and she voted remain.
  • Bobajob_PB
    Bobajob_PB Posts: 928
    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: Lab gain in Kensington & Chelsea now expected, source on ground says.
    That's KENSINGTON AND CHELSEA, people.
    If only Portillo was still MP.

    Never!
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    williamglenn said:

    kle4 said:

    Bobajob_PB said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    BBC saying Tories did better in Newcastle East than exit poll suggest.

    Swindon better than the exit poll suggests.

    Labour completely dominating in Remainy seats.

    Brexit could be dead.
    Why? Labour support Brexit!!
    Brexit, in the form of a well-prepared Article 50 position from the EU27, is an express freight train that will destroy the tactical positioning of both of the major parties.
    Hard Brexit off the table
  • MattyNeth
    MattyNeth Posts: 60
    Bed wetting index has crashed
  • marke09
    marke09 Posts: 926
    Arfon - close between Labour and Plaid
  • houndtang
    houndtang Posts: 450
    i picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue
  • Alistair
    Alistair Posts: 23,670
    Swindon turnout up by 4%
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806

    NEW THREAD

  • not_on_fire
    not_on_fire Posts: 4,451
    nunu said:

    Remember the number of Uni students has grown hugely over the years, they are spread out across the country, not just traditional Uni seats.

    And thanks to the Tories they are all £27k in debt
  • Jonathan
    Jonathan Posts: 22,107
    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: Lab gain in Kensington & Chelsea now expected, source on ground says.
    That's KENSINGTON AND CHELSEA, people.
    If only Portillo was still MP.

    Imperial College
  • The_Apocalypse
    The_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    murali_s said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Swindon North - UKIP going largely to Labour it seems

    F*cking idiots.
    Calm down dear - still a long way to go...
    Exactly. This place is so dramatic.
  • Alistair
    Alistair Posts: 23,670
    Turnout is up in England. People who bought at 63% looking happy I think.
  • ab195
    ab195 Posts: 477
    35 million is a very small sample, I don't think this poll is correct.
  • EPG
    EPG Posts: 6,739
    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: Lab gain in Kensington & Chelsea now expected, source on ground says.
    That's KENSINGTON AND CHELSEA, people.
    If only Portillo was still MP.

    No such constituency. Chelsea and Fulham is safe C, Kensington has some big L areas & is Remainy.
  • socialliberal
    socialliberal Posts: 41
    Libs claiming Kingston won and Twickenham.
  • Chameleon
    Chameleon Posts: 4,265
    The next general election is going to be fascinating. Will Con revert to party of the middle class, or be a party of Brexit?
  • hunchman
    hunchman Posts: 2,591
    WhisperingOracle said:

    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: Lab gain in Kensington & Chelsea now expected, source on ground says.
    That's KENSINGTON AND CHELSEA, people.
    If only Portillo was still MP.

    Wow .
    That's Kensington, not Chelsea and Fulham
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,609
    edited June 2017
    SeanT said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: Lab gain in Kensington & Chelsea now expected, source on ground says.
    That's KENSINGTON AND CHELSEA, people.
    If only Portillo was still MP.

    Wow .
    A joke. Surely?????
    It's a bit of a different seat now, been split into 'Kensington and Chelsea' & 'Fulham'
  • Roger
    Roger Posts: 20,744
    Dimbleby isn't the talented anchor he once was or perhaps he's a disappointed Tory? He's all but growling
  • stjohn
    stjohn Posts: 1,910
    NOM just favourite.
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Washington & Sunderland West:

    Lab +5.8%
    Con +10.0%
    UKIP -12.8%
    LD -0.3%
    Greens -1.7%

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14001020
  • another_richard
    another_richard Posts: 27,927
    Bobajob_PB said:

    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: Lab gain in Kensington & Chelsea now expected, source on ground says.
    That's KENSINGTON AND CHELSEA, people.
    If only Portillo was still MP.

    Never!
    There isn't a Kensington & Chelsea constituency anymore in any case.

    Labour gain Kensington might be possible though.
  • tyson
    tyson Posts: 6,122
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Prodicus said:

    KentRising said:

    Swing to Labour in Swindon North.

    It's over.

    Hung parliament.

    Students.

    Is Swindon North particularly a student town?
    Andy JS....you are a fucking legend....I fucking love your spreadsheet

  • AndreaParma_82
    AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited June 2017
    Sunderland West

    Lab +5.8
    Con +10

    Majority: 31.9%
  • TravelJunkie
    TravelJunkie Posts: 431
    Holy shit
    Bobajob_PB said:

    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: Lab gain in Kensington & Chelsea now expected, source on ground says.
    That's KENSINGTON AND CHELSEA, people.
    If only Portillo was still MP.

    Never!
    Holy shit. My friend James torrence is an independent. Hope he does well.
  • another_richard
    another_richard Posts: 27,927
    NOM looks like free money.
  • AlastairMeeks
    AlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    If I were forced to guess right now, I'd say Jeremy Corbyn is forming the next government.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806

    NEW THREAD NEW THREAD NEW THREAD NEW THREAD NEW THREAD

  • GIN1138
    GIN1138 Posts: 22,938
    SeanT said:

    MaxPB said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Swindon North - UKIP going largely to Labour it seems

    Yes all of those Lab -> UKIP voters are swing back to Labour instead of the Tories.
    That manifesto. My god. You and I spotted it immediately on here, when the PB Tories were chortling, confidently. Halfwits.
    So did I ;)
  • nunu
    nunu Posts: 6,024
    Danny565 said:

    YouGov almost spot-on with Swindon North again. Predicted a 17% Tory majority, in reality 16% majority.

    crap!
  • JonathanD
    JonathanD Posts: 2,400
    SeanT said:

    Dementia Tax and Nick Timothy will go down in Tory demonology

    Don't think its those - its Brexit and the rightward shift that are to blame.

    The Tory tactic was that they could afford to loose centrists because they would gain loads more UKIP and WWC Labour voters in the midlands and North East. So far they are not gaining enough of those demographics to actually win any seats.
  • Scrapheap_as_was
    Scrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Betfair crossover Tory maj vs hung after that swindon shocker
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    another_richard said:

    NOM looks like free money.

    Based on Swindon North?
  • TravelJunkie
    TravelJunkie Posts: 431
    Theresa de Villars in massive trouble in chipping barnet
  • alex.
    alex. Posts: 4,658
    Bobajob_PB said:

    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: Lab gain in Kensington & Chelsea now expected, source on ground says.
    That's KENSINGTON AND CHELSEA, people.
    If only Portillo was still MP.

    Never!
    There isn't a constituency called Kensington and Chelsea
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    tyson said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Prodicus said:

    KentRising said:

    Swing to Labour in Swindon North.

    It's over.

    Hung parliament.

    Students.

    Is Swindon North particularly a student town?
    Andy JS....you are a fucking legend....I fucking love your spreadsheet

    Swindon North was just off the Labour target list.
  • EDW20000
    EDW20000 Posts: 138
    Paddy Power Evens Con OM
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    Sunderland West
    2% swing from Labour to Tories
  • GideonWise
    GideonWise Posts: 1,123
    The bedwetters joke doesn't have the same ring to it now.
  • NickPalmer
    NickPalmer Posts: 21,724
    Just spoken to a source at the Broxtowe count - says it's very close, Tories looking shocked, but Labour not yet claiming victory.
  • atia2
    atia2 Posts: 207
    The Tories have put their party before the country. Two huge gambles: first EU16, to settle an internal dispute; then GE17, naked opportunism to increase their majority. And they've lost both times. Party before country, always.
  • tyson
    tyson Posts: 6,122
    Crossover on NOM on bet fair......go Saint Jeremiah of Islington
  • another_richard
    another_richard Posts: 27,927
    AndyJS said:

    another_richard said:

    NOM looks like free money.

    Based on Swindon North?
    That plus the vote uk forum rumours.
  • GarethoftheVale2
    GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,350
    Surely with these UKIP swings, Con should still be able to pick up some seats in places like the Potteries.
  • Recidivist
    Recidivist Posts: 4,679
    Pulpstar said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Hearing that Clegg has lost in Hallam (well-placed LD reliable source)

    To Labour ?
    No to UKIP.
  • NickPalmer
    NickPalmer Posts: 21,724
    One pretty clear picture is that the Tories are only doing well where UKIP has a big share and collapses.
  • tyson
    tyson Posts: 6,122
    NickPalmer said:

    Just spoken to a source at the Broxtowe count - says it's very close, Tories looking shocked, but Labour not yet claiming victory.

    Nick...I am so sorry to have been so down on St Jeremiah....can I repent...is it too late?
  • Chris_A
    Chris_A Posts: 1,237
    Any news from Vauxhall? Have the vintage stuff ready to open.
  • MaxPB
    MaxPB Posts: 40,327
    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    MaxPB said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Swindon North - UKIP going largely to Labour it seems

    Yes all of those Lab -> UKIP voters are swing back to Labour instead of the Tories.
    As I said they may do...
    It was the house thieving policy that did it.
    It really wasn't, it was the giveaway manifesto of Corbo.
    No, it was the turning point. You are and were completely blind to how toxic it is for us to suggest that the homes people have worked hard for over their whole lives are going to be confiscated because the person dared to fall ill.

    It is a complete disaster policy it was spotted immediately by those of us in the Cameroon camp, but not your lot and you still deny the reality even though there is hard evidence of the Lab -> UKIP voters aren't turning out for us in places where homes have high values.
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2017
    NickPalmer said:

    One pretty clear picture is that the Tories are only doing well where UKIP has a big share and collapses.

    In Swindon North the UKIP collapse mainly went to Labour.
  • viewcode
    viewcode Posts: 25,202
    AndyJS said:

    If we were just looking at the results and didn't have an exit poll we'd probably be expecting a slightly increased Tory majority.

    I'd agree with that. Although it really would be "slightly".

    Hypothesis. After all this kerfuffle, the net seat change on 2015 is...very little?
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    JonathanD said:

    SeanT said:

    Dementia Tax and Nick Timothy will go down in Tory demonology

    Don't think its those - its Brexit and the rightward shift that are to blame.

    The Tory tactic was that they could afford to loose centrists because they would gain loads more UKIP and WWC Labour voters in the midlands and North East. So far they are not gaining enough of those demographics to actually win any seats.
    Indeed but May will still probably be in about the same position as Cameron 2015, maybe a little better and if the Tories now go for soft Brexit under say Hammond they then risk losing voters to UKIP so whichever way the Tories went post Brexit they would lose some voters. Hard Brexit they lose centrists but gain UKIP, soft Brexit they regain centrists but lose voters back to UKIP
  • OchEye
    OchEye Posts: 1,469
    kle4 said:

    Bobajob_PB said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    BBC saying Tories did better in Newcastle East than exit poll suggest.

    Swindon better than the exit poll suggests.

    Labour completely dominating in Remainy seats.

    Brexit could be dead.
    Why? Labour support Brexit!!
    If the SNP use confidence and supply to Labour, Brexit is dead. Much to many MP's pleasure.
  • another_richard
    another_richard Posts: 27,927
    Tory fuckups:

    Dementia tax
    WFA

    These two have annoyed the oldies

    And these two have annoyed the under 30s (and their parents):

    Increasing student fees
    Unaffordable housing
  • CockerSpaniel
    CockerSpaniel Posts: 45
    Careful about reading these results so far. The constituency I am in had a double figure Conservative majority in 2015. Campaign teams went to a neighbouring constituency. Watch the swing away from Conservatives holding the seat in this constituency and the doom and gloom – and then we win the seat next door
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    SeanT said:

    JonathanD said:

    SeanT said:

    Dementia Tax and Nick Timothy will go down in Tory demonology

    Don't think its those - its Brexit and the rightward shift that are to blame.

    The Tory tactic was that they could afford to loose centrists because they would gain loads more UKIP and WWC Labour voters in the midlands and North East. So far they are not gaining enough of those demographics to actually win any seats.
    What fucking rightward shift? That was the most left wing manifesto I can remember from a Tory PM. Energy caps, racial audits. UGH, and she's lost on it. Stupid grimacing weirdo robot. Get rid.
    It was not that which lost it, it was social care and losing Remain Tories but social care has to be paid for somehow whatever voters think and if the Tories go soft Brexit they risk losing Remain voters too
  • tyson
    tyson Posts: 6,122
    another_richard said:

    Tory fuckups:

    Dementia tax
    WFA

    These two have annoyed the oldies

    And these two have annoyed the under 30s (and their parents):

    Increasing student fees
    Unaffordable housing

    Tearing foxes up with hounds I would suggest was hardly a good start...silly fucking mistake.....
  • NeilVW
    NeilVW Posts: 749
    Just had an email from the Tories asking me to vote. Bit late chaps.
  • viewcode
    viewcode Posts: 25,202
    AlastairMeeks said:

    So far the YouGov model is looking spookily accurate.

    I agree with that as well. I'm in an ecumenical mood.

    But right now we're wibbling at the margin. The outcomes are a) small Con overall majority, b) Con plurality, or c) there is no option c.
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    If we were just looking at the results and didn't have an exit poll we'd probably be expecting a slightly increased Tory majority.

    I'd agree with that. Although it really would be "slightly".

    Hypothesis. After all this kerfuffle, the net seat change on 2015 is...very little?
    I wrote that before Swindon North.
  • socialliberal
    socialliberal Posts: 41
    SeanT said:

    JonathanD said:

    SeanT said:

    Dementia Tax and Nick Timothy will go down in Tory demonology

    Don't think its those - its Brexit and the rightward shift that are to blame.

    The Tory tactic was that they could afford to loose centrists because they would gain loads more UKIP and WWC Labour voters in the midlands and North East. So far they are not gaining enough of those demographics to actually win any seats.
    What fucking rightward shift? That was the most left wing manifesto I can remember from a Tory PM. Energy caps, racial audits. UGH, and she's lost on it. Stupid grimacing weirdo robot. Get rid.
    Indeed. That was part of the problem. And the presidential nature. And avoiding TV debates. And WFA and Social Care. Arrogance. But, all politicians are the same.
  • EDW20000
    EDW20000 Posts: 138
    Cons dont give a fuck about homeless, mistake.
  • DearPB
    DearPB Posts: 439
    Gosh, Emily Thornberry really is posh!
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2017
    Newcastle North:

    Con +6k
    Lab +6k

    Very little swing, slight swing to the Tories.
  • another_richard
    another_richard Posts: 27,927
    NickPalmer said:

    Just spoken to a source at the Broxtowe count - says it's very close, Tories looking shocked, but Labour not yet claiming victory.

    You should have stood again :wink:
  • murali_s
    murali_s Posts: 3,084
    atia2 said:

    The Tories have put their party before the country. Two huge gambles: first EU16, to settle an internal dispute; then GE17, naked opportunism to increase their majority. And they've lost both times. Party before country, always.

    Welcome and you hit it on the nail!
  • DearPB
    DearPB Posts: 439
    Clarke for Tory leader? Wish I'd voted for him in 2001!
  • MaxPB
    MaxPB Posts: 40,327
    Another area the Tories failed was to drag Labour into hard Brexit with them. Labour have hoovered up the remain vote while outwardly supporting hard Brexit.
  • OchEye
    OchEye Posts: 1,469
    OchEye said:

    kle4 said:

    Bobajob_PB said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    BBC saying Tories did better in Newcastle East than exit poll suggest.

    Swindon better than the exit poll suggests.

    Labour completely dominating in Remainy seats.

    Brexit could be dead.
    Why? Labour support Brexit!!
    If the SNP use confidence and supply to Labour, Brexit is dead. Much to many MP's pleasure.
    Should also have said that a Tory minority government will not be able to do anything, A minority Labour government with C&S will not be able to do anything. Look for another GE in the autumn.
  • NickPalmer
    NickPalmer Posts: 21,724
    tyson said:

    NickPalmer said:

    Just spoken to a source at the Broxtowe count - says it's very close, Tories looking shocked, but Labour not yet claiming victory.

    Nick...I am so sorry to have been so down on St Jeremiah....can I repent...is it too late?
    Bless you my child :)

    I met some anti-Corbyn voters, but it's fair to say I met quite a few who said he was the politician they'd been waiting for all their lives.
  • old_labour
    old_labour Posts: 3,238
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ruth Davidson might be the only thing stopping Prime Jeremy Corbyn from happening.

    If that's the case, you can thank useless Scottish Labour for aiding and abetting her.
  • viewcode
    viewcode Posts: 25,202
    AndyJS said:

    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    If we were just looking at the results and didn't have an exit poll we'd probably be expecting a slightly increased Tory majority.

    I'd agree with that. Although it really would be "slightly".

    Hypothesis. After all this kerfuffle, the net seat change on 2015 is...very little?
    I wrote that before Swindon North.
    What happened in Swindon North? Good for Con, bad for Con?
  • not_on_fire
    not_on_fire Posts: 4,451
    Am I right in thinking the exit poll is predicting a higher Labour share of the vote?
  • dyedwoolie
    dyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Exit poll out by a 6% swing to Tories on first 8 results.
    Tories to lose some remain seats but gain leave seats.
  • BenedictWhite
    BenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    not_on_fire said:

    Am I right in thinking the exit poll is predicting a higher Labour share of the vote?

    Yes, currently broadly Labour are underperforming but it is too early to tell.
  • EDW20000
    EDW20000 Posts: 138
    May ruined, Bojo dead cert alert
  • socialliberal
    socialliberal Posts: 41
    EDW20000 said:

    May ruined, Bojo dead cert alert

    Boris ready to jump in. I assume he is having curry with political friends
  • EDW20000
    EDW20000 Posts: 138
    socialliberal said:

    EDW20000 said:

    May ruined, Bojo dead cert alert

    Boris ready to jump in. I assume he is having curry with political friends
    He will not hesitate this time.
  • DearPB
    DearPB Posts: 439
    "every mile you go further north, the better it is for the Tories" - never thought I'd hear that!
  • DearPB
    DearPB Posts: 439
    EDW20000 said:

    socialliberal said:

    EDW20000 said:

    May ruined, Bojo dead cert alert

    Boris ready to jump in. I assume he is having curry with political friends
    He will not hesitate this time.
    Who else could it be?
  • socialliberal
    socialliberal Posts: 41
    EDW20000 said:

    socialliberal said:

    EDW20000 said:

    May ruined, Bojo dead cert alert

    Boris ready to jump in. I assume he is having curry with political friends
    He will not hesitate this time.
    Indeed. He was ready two weeks ago.
  • EDW20000
    EDW20000 Posts: 138
    UKIP to call in the official receiver
  • EDW20000
    EDW20000 Posts: 138
    How many Lab seats in Scot?
  • not_on_fire
    not_on_fire Posts: 4,451
    BenedictWhite said:

    not_on_fire said:

    Am I right in thinking the exit poll is predicting a higher Labour share of the vote?

    Yes, currently broadly Labour are underperforming but it is too early to tell.
    If Labour get a higher share of the vote but finish 50 seats behind the Tories it could be curtains for FPTP as well..
  • Bobajob_PB
    Bobajob_PB Posts: 928
    HYUFD said:

    Sunderland West
    2% swing from Labour to Tories

    Tories stacking up votes in northern Labour strongholds where it doesn't matter?

    We need Midlands seats. You might do well there.
  • DearPB
    DearPB Posts: 439
    socialliberal said:

    EDW20000 said:

    socialliberal said:

    EDW20000 said:

    May ruined, Bojo dead cert alert

    Boris ready to jump in. I assume he is having curry with political friends
    He will not hesitate this time.
    Indeed. He was ready two weeks ago.
    Ruth Davidson as Deputy Leader?
  • not_on_fire
    not_on_fire Posts: 4,451
    edited June 2017
    Fascinating to watch Osborne on ITV. Wonder if he regrets standing down?
  • Bobajob_PB
    Bobajob_PB Posts: 928
    NickPalmer said:

    One pretty clear picture is that the Tories are only doing well where UKIP has a big share and collapses.


    You could have been an MP again Nick! But you earn much more doing what you are doing now sir
  • hereharehere
    hereharehere Posts: 4
    Quiet in here. So wonderfully, wonderfully quiet.
  • BenedictWhite
    BenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    Does anyone know why the BBC is so pants?
  • Bobajob_PB
    Bobajob_PB Posts: 928
    NickPalmer said:

    tyson said:

    NickPalmer said:

    Just spoken to a source at the Broxtowe count - says it's very close, Tories looking shocked, but Labour not yet claiming victory.

    Nick...I am so sorry to have been so down on St Jeremiah....can I repent...is it too late?
    Bless you my child :)

    I met some anti-Corbyn voters, but it's fair to say I met quite a few who said he was the politician they'd been waiting for all their lives.
    Corbyn should be leader in a BROAD CHURCH shadow cabinet. He is a GREAT campaigner.

    I was wrong. Wrong.
  • Bobajob_PB
    Bobajob_PB Posts: 928
    not_on_fire said:

    Fascinating to watch Osborne on ITV. Wonder if he regrets standing down?


    If Balls and Ozzy ran the government together we'd all be better off.

    That these two guys are outside the HoC is a joke.
  • Winstanley
    Winstanley Posts: 434
    Bobajob_PB said:

    NickPalmer said:

    tyson said:

    NickPalmer said:

    Just spoken to a source at the Broxtowe count - says it's very close, Tories looking shocked, but Labour not yet claiming victory.

    Nick...I am so sorry to have been so down on St Jeremiah....can I repent...is it too late?
    Bless you my child :)

    I met some anti-Corbyn voters, but it's fair to say I met quite a few who said he was the politician they'd been waiting for all their lives.
    Corbyn should be leader in a BROAD CHURCH shadow cabinet. He is a GREAT campaigner.

    I was wrong. Wrong.
    That was his instinct. Then they all quit to topple him, exactly like some were saying they would befoe he even was elected. Little he could do against that imo.
This discussion has been closed.

Categories