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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Granny storming the barricades

SystemSystem Posts: 11,703
edited June 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Granny storming the barricades

You know the drill.  It’s a scenario which has played out many times in countries around the world, sometimes peaceably, sometimes with much violence: the old elite is overthrown, an iconoclastic movement tears down the old structures and grabs power.  Regimes and institutions which looked as though they would last for ever are suddenly overthrown, with breath-taking speed.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    First?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    Second like Remain.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    The young have had their preferred Establishment shattered on their behalf. It’s an inversion with profound consequences for the politics of the UK. I wouldn’t pretend to be able to guess how it will play out.
    The young people wait until the old people die, then go back in.

    There's something to be said for this, as the EU needs to make some changes and the UK is never very helpful when it needs to change.
  • Options
    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    It's not a revolution - it's a counterrevolution. The Thermidorean reaction to the revolution that started in the 60s.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2016
    FPT: maybe Boris Island is back on the agenda.
  • Options
    CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840
    edited June 2016


    The young people wait until the old people die, then go back in.

    There's something to be said for this, as the EU needs to make some changes and the UK is never very helpful when it needs to change.

    Or: the young people grow up and learn more about the world and start coming to different conclusions than they do at the moment wet behind the ears, fresh out of school?
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,032
    I think that if we are to talk about the stark class division, we must talk at least as much about the stark age division. Why do the young people in 2016 feel a little bit aggrieved vis-a-vis the older people, many of whom voted IN in 1975, despite all the latter's arguments about judgement and so on? Partly because the former have had something taken from them, whereas the latter are effectively giving something back that they "enjoyed" the use of for 43 years. Opportunities and self-image lost in the young, to be made comply with the preferences of the old for how the young's future in Britain ought to look.
  • Options
    CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840
    edited June 2016
    rpjs said:

    It's not a revolution - it's a counterrevolution. The Thermidorean reaction to the revolution that started in the 60s.

    I see it as the end of the era of managed decline (alias end of empire, suez crisis, sick man of europe, etc etc) - the UK joined the Common Market when it was in the doldrums, and now leaves when it has returned to health, confident of forging its own future in the world again.

    And if the Scots don't want to be part of that future, then they're welcome to bugger off.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Thanks for this Richard. And thanks for sticking around despite the abuse :)
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151


    The young people wait until the old people die, then go back in.

    There's something to be said for this, as the EU needs to make some changes and the UK is never very helpful when it needs to change.

    Or: the young people grow up and learn more about the world and start coming to different conclusions than they do at the moment wet behind the ears, fresh out of school?
    In this case "young" means "under 40".
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    AndyJS said:

    FPT: maybe Boris Island is back on the agenda.

    Surely we are going to listen to the independent commission??
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,018


    The young people wait until the old people die, then go back in.

    There's something to be said for this, as the EU needs to make some changes and the UK is never very helpful when it needs to change.

    Or: the young people grow up and learn more about the world and start coming to different conclusions than they do at the moment wet behind the ears, fresh out of school?
    The young are less racist and xenophobic - and therefore much less responsive to the Farage message which was at the heart of the leave campaign
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited June 2016
    Labourlist commenters predictably (but rightly, this time) disdainful of this latest attempt to oust Corbyn.

    "Moderate" Labour MPs are going to need a much better rationale for launching a coup than just not wanting to admit to themselves that they misjudged the public mood on the EU.
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    TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    This revolution is the final roll of the dice for the boomer generation. Not content with stealing all our wealth, they steal our futures too.
  • Options
    CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840


    The young people wait until the old people die, then go back in.

    There's something to be said for this, as the EU needs to make some changes and the UK is never very helpful when it needs to change.

    Or: the young people grow up and learn more about the world and start coming to different conclusions than they do at the moment wet behind the ears, fresh out of school?
    The young are less racist and xenophobic - and therefore much less responsive to the Farage message which was at the heart of the leave campaign
    They also don't have to worry yet about things that have been affected by globalization and mass migration: career jobs, housing, places for their children at schools, GPs, etc etc.
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    23 year-old Leave voter here. Scrolling through my Facebook feed before the referendum it was clear that a lot of people my age were voting Remain because they didn't want to be on the same side as Farage/Gove/Boris. Pointing out that they were instead siding with Cameron/Clegg/Blair/Sinn Fein seemed to fall on deaf ears.

    No doubt some of the oldies who made this possible were just anti-immigration nuts. However, many older folk that I met on the campaign trail had thought about the decision carefully and were voting Leave for good reasons to do with restoring our democracy. Frankly I'm glad they did.
  • Options
    CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840


    The young people wait until the old people die, then go back in.

    There's something to be said for this, as the EU needs to make some changes and the UK is never very helpful when it needs to change.

    Or: the young people grow up and learn more about the world and start coming to different conclusions than they do at the moment wet behind the ears, fresh out of school?
    In this case "young" means "under 40".
    Perhaps. It's a complex world and adulthood is one long learning experience. Many only leave education in their early-mid 20s, marry in their early-mid 30s, buy their first house in their late 30s, have children around then too...
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    RealBritainRealBritain Posts: 255
    OT , in reply to AndyJS, I think - That London secession petition will be up to 200,000 by next week, at that current rate. Extraordinary times.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,032


    The young people wait until the old people die, then go back in.

    There's something to be said for this, as the EU needs to make some changes and the UK is never very helpful when it needs to change.

    Or: the young people grow up and learn more about the world and start coming to different conclusions than they do at the moment wet behind the ears, fresh out of school?
    The young are less racist and xenophobic - and therefore much less responsive to the Farage message which was at the heart of the leave campaign
    They also don't have to worry yet about things that have been affected by globalization and mass migration: career jobs, housing, places for their children at schools, GPs, etc etc.
    Sorry, but 20-somethings are TERRIFIED about career and housing.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,069
    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    FPT: maybe Boris Island is back on the agenda.

    Surely we are going to listen to the independent commission??
    The Heathrow decision must now be back up in the air.

    Which is a shame, as we need to get going on something now given the construction times. Personally I'd prefer BI as I think it's more futureproof, but the time to start that was three years ago, not now. Heathrow can be delivered quicker and (hopefully) cheaper.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    Surely, when it comes to the vote of no confidence, Stephen Kinnock is going to have consider the actions of somebody who nominated Corbyn for leader and ask himself "What would Jo Cox want me to do?"

    Or is that so last week?
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132
    Continuing the French Revolution theme - as Rousseau might have said "man was born in chains but the chains of the young have now been cast off by their grandparents".
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    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    O/T Warning! Avoid upgrade to Windows 10. Has a bug which results in frequent script error messages which can't be suppressed even when choosing the correct settings to do so. If you're happy with the OS which you have stick with it.
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    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    FPT: maybe Boris Island is back on the agenda.

    Surely we are going to listen to the independent commission??
    After Brexit we can't afford Boris Island.

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    perdix said:

    O/T Warning! Avoid upgrade to Windows 10. Has a bug which results in frequent script error messages which can't be suppressed even when choosing the correct settings to do so. If you're happy with the OS which you have stick with it.

    I wish there was a button that said "No thank you, I do not wish to upgrade to Windows 10".

    And another when it has still tried to get you to upgrade for the umpteenth time that said "Will you just fuck off and LEAVE ME ALONE. NO, I DO NOT WANT TO UPGRADE."
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited June 2016

    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    FPT: maybe Boris Island is back on the agenda.

    Surely we are going to listen to the independent commission??
    The Heathrow decision must now be back up in the air.

    Which is a shame, as we need to get going on something now given the construction times. Personally I'd prefer BI as I think it's more futureproof, but the time to start that was three years ago, not now. Heathrow can be delivered quicker and (hopefully) cheaper.
    If it were going to be BI it should have started a decade ago really. Getting on with runway 3 (and runway 4) starting tomorrow is really the only way forward from where we are now.

    Every foggy morning currently costs billions in lost income for the country, as LHR is so far over capacity that the air traffic controllers squeeze the planes closer together in good weather than anywhere else in the world.
  • Options
    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited June 2016


    There's something to be said for this, as the EU needs to make some changes and the UK is never very helpful when it needs to change.

    Its not as if the EU is run by philosopher kings. The Euro was not a good idea.

  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    FPT: maybe Boris Island is back on the agenda.

    Surely we are going to listen to the independent commission??
    The Heathrow decision must now be back up in the air.

    Which is a shame, as we need to get going on something now given the construction times. Personally I'd prefer BI as I think it's more futureproof, but the time to start that was three years ago, not now. Heathrow can be delivered quicker and (hopefully) cheaper.
    Boris Islands is a no-brainer IMO. Heathrow could be turned into a technology village.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    One has to ask...if the eu club is so good for everybody why does their own strategy paper think lots of other countries will leave if we do?
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    OT , in reply to AndyJS, I think - That London secession petition will be up to 200,000 by next week, at that current rate. Extraordinary times.

    Time for an English parliament, located in Knowsley...
  • Options
    CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840
    EPG said:


    The young people wait until the old people die, then go back in.

    There's something to be said for this, as the EU needs to make some changes and the UK is never very helpful when it needs to change.

    Or: the young people grow up and learn more about the world and start coming to different conclusions than they do at the moment wet behind the ears, fresh out of school?
    The young are less racist and xenophobic - and therefore much less responsive to the Farage message which was at the heart of the leave campaign
    They also don't have to worry yet about things that have been affected by globalization and mass migration: career jobs, housing, places for their children at schools, GPs, etc etc.
    Sorry, but 20-somethings are TERRIFIED about career and housing.
    In which case they certainly don't understand the situation - why would they be so fervent for remaining in the EU for those issues?

    Is it not the case that for one reason or another being pro-EU is simply regarded as being fashionable/the "norm" for a generation that is, frankly, highly impressionable.

    I find the present 18-24 generation to be incredibly dull when it comes to politics - they've somehow been placated / made docile... an effect of technology somehow?
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,894
    Evening all :)

    My first chance to comment on the last 24 tumultuous hours. I had an early presentation so went to bed at 11 expecting REMAIN to have prevailed by say 52-48 as per YouGov so my reaction this morning was one of surprise to say the least.

    Yet it seems the sky hasn't fallen in thus far - the FTSE lost some of the week's earlier froth but is still well above where it was as far back as last Friday and, as expected, there were contingency plans aplenty from the Bank of England.

    Cameron, of course, acknowledged the result by not acknowledging it. We can't leave until the Conservative Party dictates when we leave - Cameron and his discredited bunch will hang round all summer like a bad smell while the majority non-Conservative population will have to endure a ludicrous popularity contest - cue endless Sky debates, town hall meetings and the like.

    The Conservatives make take some comfort in not being alone in their misery - for Labour Brexit threatens renewed factionalism, for UKIP, the threat is existential and for the LDs, the rejection of a central plank of their raison d'etre is no less a crisis.

    Newham voted REMAIN by a much smaller majority than the local Labour party might have expected reflecting undercurrents not visible in local and general election campaigns where there is little practical alternative to the Party.
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    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    Anecdote alert. As speaking to someone who works in the IT trade with lots of fellow youngsters.

    Apart from Cisco traders going nuts about the dollar rate, she said her office of 18sh year olds is split 50/50. She didn't vote because she couldn't decide.

    So unless you are prepared to accept that pollsters have got this spot on I don't accept the 75/25 split. I know 1 under 25 remainer and many times more than that leaver.
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    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    perdix said:

    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    FPT: maybe Boris Island is back on the agenda.

    Surely we are going to listen to the independent commission??
    After Brexit we can't afford Boris Island.

    The problem here is that where to site an airport expansion isn't an expert decision but a political one.

    By all means have it informed by expert opinion but no more than that.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Why would Newham vote so differently to Tower Hamlets?
  • Options
    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944

    perdix said:

    O/T Warning! Avoid upgrade to Windows 10. Has a bug which results in frequent script error messages which can't be suppressed even when choosing the correct settings to do so. If you're happy with the OS which you have stick with it.

    I wish there was a button that said "No thank you, I do not wish to upgrade to Windows 10".

    And another when it has still tried to get you to upgrade for the umpteenth time that said "Will you just fuck off and LEAVE ME ALONE. NO, I DO NOT WANT TO UPGRADE."
    1. If you get the dreaded dialogue use Alt+f4 to kill it without using the X.

    Also there are some articles on how to stop the upgrade.
  • Options
    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited June 2016

    perdix said:

    O/T Warning! Avoid upgrade to Windows 10. Has a bug which results in frequent script error messages which can't be suppressed even when choosing the correct settings to do so. If you're happy with the OS which you have stick with it.

    I wish there was a button that said "No thank you, I do not wish to upgrade to Windows 10".

    And another when it has still tried to get you to upgrade for the umpteenth time that said "Will you just fuck off and LEAVE ME ALONE. NO, I DO NOT WANT TO UPGRADE."
    There is a freeware app called "Never 10" that is supposed to do that.

    I'm a smug Apple user myself. [sniff]
  • Options
    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944


    There's something to be said for this, as the EU needs to make some changes and the UK is never very helpful when it needs to change.

    Its not as if the EU is run by philosopher kings. The Euro was not a good idea.

    We did tell them the Euro was like fruit biscuit in tea mad bonkers no way. They said we know and did it anyway.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292

    EPG said:


    The young people wait until the old people die, then go back in.

    There's something to be said for this, as the EU needs to make some changes and the UK is never very helpful when it needs to change.

    Or: the young people grow up and learn more about the world and start coming to different conclusions than they do at the moment wet behind the ears, fresh out of school?
    The young are less racist and xenophobic - and therefore much less responsive to the Farage message which was at the heart of the leave campaign
    They also don't have to worry yet about things that have been affected by globalization and mass migration: career jobs, housing, places for their children at schools, GPs, etc etc.
    Sorry, but 20-somethings are TERRIFIED about career and housing.
    In which case they certainly don't understand the situation - why would they be so fervent for remaining in the EU for those issues?

    Is it not the case that for one reason or another being pro-EU is simply regarded as being fashionable/the "norm" for a generation that is, frankly, highly impressionable.

    I find the present 18-24 generation to be incredibly dull when it comes to politics - they've somehow been placated / made docile... an effect of technology somehow?
    Heard some right old crap for reasons to stay...uni fees will go up. How so, if anything unis can charge eu students full whack & if they don't want to come loads of people from far east etc that want to & will pay.
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    Intriguing article, Richard, thank you.

    I think there's something to be said for the idea that young people who've grown up in a democracy find it hard to imagine that their democratic privileges could ever be nullified.

    Those who've seen their democratic privileges being gradually whittled away are less complacent.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    10+ years we have been pissing about with his new southern airport. Just get on with it!
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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    perdix said:

    O/T Warning! Avoid upgrade to Windows 10. Has a bug which results in frequent script error messages which can't be suppressed even when choosing the correct settings to do so. If you're happy with the OS which you have stick with it.

    I wish there was a button that said "No thank you, I do not wish to upgrade to Windows 10".

    And another when it has still tried to get you to upgrade for the umpteenth time that said "Will you just fuck off and LEAVE ME ALONE. NO, I DO NOT WANT TO UPGRADE."
    i'm getting pestered to upgrade to windows 8.1. where have I been?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    perdix said:

    O/T Warning! Avoid upgrade to Windows 10. Has a bug which results in frequent script error messages which can't be suppressed even when choosing the correct settings to do so. If you're happy with the OS which you have stick with it.

    I wish there was a button that said "No thank you, I do not wish to upgrade to Windows 10".

    And another when it has still tried to get you to upgrade for the umpteenth time that said "Will you just fuck off and LEAVE ME ALONE. NO, I DO NOT WANT TO UPGRADE."
    You should install a little application called "GWX Control Panel" that shuts off the messages.

    http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/

    PM me if you need more info, I deal with this crap for a day job.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    Sandpit said:

    perdix said:

    O/T Warning! Avoid upgrade to Windows 10. Has a bug which results in frequent script error messages which can't be suppressed even when choosing the correct settings to do so. If you're happy with the OS which you have stick with it.

    I wish there was a button that said "No thank you, I do not wish to upgrade to Windows 10".

    And another when it has still tried to get you to upgrade for the umpteenth time that said "Will you just fuck off and LEAVE ME ALONE. NO, I DO NOT WANT TO UPGRADE."
    You should install a little application called "GWX Control Panel" that shuts off the messages.

    http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/

    PM me if you need more info, I deal with this crap for a day job.
    As the Queen would say "oh bad luck"
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920
    Good grief, what a drama on the news...
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    Sandpit said:

    perdix said:

    O/T Warning! Avoid upgrade to Windows 10. Has a bug which results in frequent script error messages which can't be suppressed even when choosing the correct settings to do so. If you're happy with the OS which you have stick with it.

    I wish there was a button that said "No thank you, I do not wish to upgrade to Windows 10".

    And another when it has still tried to get you to upgrade for the umpteenth time that said "Will you just fuck off and LEAVE ME ALONE. NO, I DO NOT WANT TO UPGRADE."
    You should install a little application called "GWX Control Panel" that shuts off the messages.

    http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/

    PM me if you need more info, I deal with this crap for a day job.
    You have just acquired Hero status....
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    "The young have had their preferred Establishment shattered on their behalf. "

    Yeah I know that feeling and the first time I was given the choice since 17 years old some 42 years I had to vote leave.

    Deal with it like I and many of us had to then which we did with respect for the democratic process and just got on with it. Something you Remainers cannot do. FFF I saw on a previous thread one poster considered that 52/48 was the matter not settled.

    As was stated at the first referendum that's democracy for you.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    Office cake culture is 'danger to health'
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36608269

    Stick it up your juncker!!!
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    10+ years we have been pissing about with his new southern airport. Just get on with it!

    *looks around for new location for third London airport*

    Now, who voted most for Remain?"
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,894
    AndyJS said:

    Why would Newham vote so differently to Tower Hamlets?

    Though many people think of them as the same, they are very different. The affluent area of Royal Docks and the emerging area of Stratford mix with strongly Muslim areas and more Hindu areas such as East Ham. There's also a notable Sikh community in Upton Park.

    Newham is the least agnostic area in the whole country if memory serves but it'smore diverse than Tower Hamlets and though UKIP has never prospered here, there are strong wwc enclaves in Beckton and Silvertown. I thought it might be 55-45 for REMAIN but I was wrong and turnout was much higher than I expected.




  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited June 2016
    perdix said:

    O/T Warning! Avoid upgrade to Windows 10. Has a bug which results in frequent script error messages which can't be suppressed even when choosing the correct settings to do so. If you're happy with the OS which you have stick with it.

    If you just got "Upgraded" you can revert back to the old W7 or W8 within 30 days.
    Go to Start>Settings>Update and Security>Recovery.
    http://www.howtogeek.com/220723/how-to-uninstall-windows-10-and-downgrade-to-windows-7-or-8.1/

    When you've "downgraded" then install the 'GWX Control panel' app referenced in my post below to stop the messages.
    PM me if you need more details.
  • Options
    AndyJS said:

    Why would Newham vote so differently to Tower Hamlets?

    Newham isnt full of yuppies living in converted dockside warehouses
  • Options
    RealBritainRealBritain Posts: 255
    Spencer Livermore first political figure to back autonomous London, apparently.
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    FPT:

    The Forecasters Forecaster Martin Armstrong on the money again:

    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/europes-current-economy/the-british-pound-the-aftermath-of-brexit/

    Look how his model pointed to the peak of the EU in 2004. Since then in the Euro they ripped up the Maastricht deficit criteria (remember that?), they ripped up the no bail out clause for Greece, couldn't get a budget signed off for goodness knows how many years......lets face it PB europhiliacs your EU wet dreams of ever closer union are in RUINS.

    As I've said before, we've been round this racetrack before with the Roman Empire, Charlemagne, Napoleon and Hitler. Why anyone remotely expected a different outcome at the 5th time heaven only knows. Our incapacity as a human race to learn the lessons from history never ceases to amaze me.
  • Options
    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    My first chance to comment on the last 24 tumultuous hours. I had an early presentation so went to bed at 11 expecting REMAIN to have prevailed by say 52-48 as per YouGov so my reaction this morning was one of surprise to say the least.

    Yet it seems the sky hasn't fallen in thus far - the FTSE lost some of the week's earlier froth but is still well above where it was as far back as last Friday and, as expected, there were contingency plans aplenty from the Bank of England.

    Cameron, of course, acknowledged the result by not acknowledging it. We can't leave until the Conservative Party dictates when we leave - Cameron and his discredited bunch will hang round all summer like a bad smell while the majority non-Conservative population will have to endure a ludicrous popularity contest - cue endless Sky debates, town hall meetings and the like.

    The Conservatives make take some comfort in not being alone in their misery - for Labour Brexit threatens renewed factionalism, for UKIP, the threat is existential and for the LDs, the rejection of a central plank of their raison d'etre is no less a crisis.

    Newham voted REMAIN by a much smaller majority than the local Labour party might have expected reflecting undercurrents not visible in local and general election campaigns where there is little practical alternative to the Party.

    The LDs at my count were discussing at times how the electorate had just got it wrong.

    Mind you, I owned the place by predicting the percentage of the result nationally at 3 (and locally as well though it was the reverse) and so had a happy bunch of mostly kippers to work with. None of my Labour friends turned up but very few Tories. One for them (Ahem... Nick) and 2 others for my side though not all night.

    This I think is the problem. The electorate are frankly too thick to get it right.... No wonder they (the electorate) hate the political classes.

    To be fair once I corrected some of their view on calamity, how people who are concerned about immigration are not waycists we did get on OK. though. Bet many of them hate me though.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    RodCrosby said:

    OT , in reply to AndyJS, I think - That London secession petition will be up to 200,000 by next week, at that current rate. Extraordinary times.

    Time for an English parliament, located in Knowsley...
    With accommodation blocks in Skelmersdale....
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    EPG said:


    The young people wait until the old people die, then go back in.

    There's something to be said for this, as the EU needs to make some changes and the UK is never very helpful when it needs to change.

    Or: the young people grow up and learn more about the world and start coming to different conclusions than they do at the moment wet behind the ears, fresh out of school?
    The young are less racist and xenophobic - and therefore much less responsive to the Farage message which was at the heart of the leave campaign
    They also don't have to worry yet about things that have been affected by globalization and mass migration: career jobs, housing, places for their children at schools, GPs, etc etc.
    Sorry, but 20-somethings are TERRIFIED about career and housing.
    In which case they certainly don't understand the situation - why would they be so fervent for remaining in the EU for those issues?

    Is it not the case that for one reason or another being pro-EU is simply regarded as being fashionable/the "norm" for a generation that is, frankly, highly impressionable.

    I find the present 18-24 generation to be incredibly dull when it comes to politics - they've somehow been placated / made docile... an effect of technology somehow?
    Heard some right old crap for reasons to stay...uni fees will go up. How so, if anything unis can charge eu students full whack & if they don't want to come loads of people from far east etc that want to & will pay.
    I had to explain how visa-on-arrival and visa-waiver programs worked to placate my youngsters.

    People have voted for both Remain and Leave for some frankly incomprehensible reasons. I'm already at the stage where I just don't want to know, it allows me to continue to hold some kind of regard for my fellow humans.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132
    The Chilcott Report is coming soon.

    Hopefully more political fun from that.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Sandpit said:

    perdix said:

    O/T Warning! Avoid upgrade to Windows 10. Has a bug which results in frequent script error messages which can't be suppressed even when choosing the correct settings to do so. If you're happy with the OS which you have stick with it.

    I wish there was a button that said "No thank you, I do not wish to upgrade to Windows 10".

    And another when it has still tried to get you to upgrade for the umpteenth time that said "Will you just fuck off and LEAVE ME ALONE. NO, I DO NOT WANT TO UPGRADE."
    You should install a little application called "GWX Control Panel" that shuts off the messages.

    http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/

    PM me if you need more info, I deal with this crap for a day job.
    As the Queen would say "oh bad luck"
    I do IT for SMEs, a lot of them don't have a Domain so can't control updates etc centrally. Let's say I've had a busy few months dealing with all this crap, MS deserve to lose serious market share (which they are, to Macs and tablets) over pulling this crap on their customers.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,790
    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    FPT: maybe Boris Island is back on the agenda.

    Surely we are going to listen to the independent commission??
    Experts. Shexperts.
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    ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    On behalf of baby boomers (whether they want me to or not), I apologise wholeheartedly. We have been, and still are, a generation that has sucked the best out of life and left those coming after with the dregs. We had the pensions, the student gramts, the consumer boom etc. etc.

    But, hey, we still voted yesterday in your interest, despite you somehow daring to vote and differently,

    The sooner our generation is gone the better. I'm sure you will agree on that at least.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Sandpit said:

    perdix said:

    O/T Warning! Avoid upgrade to Windows 10. Has a bug which results in frequent script error messages which can't be suppressed even when choosing the correct settings to do so. If you're happy with the OS which you have stick with it.

    I wish there was a button that said "No thank you, I do not wish to upgrade to Windows 10".

    And another when it has still tried to get you to upgrade for the umpteenth time that said "Will you just fuck off and LEAVE ME ALONE. NO, I DO NOT WANT TO UPGRADE."
    You should install a little application called "GWX Control Panel" that shuts off the messages.

    http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/

    PM me if you need more info, I deal with this crap for a day job.
    You have just acquired Hero status....
    Glad to be of assistance :D
  • Options
    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    I was just listening to Muse's United States of Eurasia.

    Somehow its lyrics seemed rather apt.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    RodCrosby said:

    OT , in reply to AndyJS, I think - That London secession petition will be up to 200,000 by next week, at that current rate. Extraordinary times.

    Time for an English parliament, located in Knowsley...
    With accommodation blocks in Skelmersdale....
    Yep, we might actually get politicians who would listen to, and care about, the WWC and WNWC if they had to live and work among them...
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    The Chilcott Report is coming soon.

    Hopefully more political fun from that.

    Fingers crossed there's plenty of shit coming for Campbell. Odious little toad that couldn't keep himself from running round the studios again today.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Channel 4 News compares Cameron to Eden and Chamberlain.
  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    FPT: maybe Boris Island is back on the agenda.

    Surely we are going to listen to the independent commission??
    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    FPT: maybe Boris Island is back on the agenda.

    Surely we are going to listen to the independent commission??
    Don't be silly, they're experts.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,337
    Gary Gibbon on C4 News just compared Cameron's premiership with Eden and Chamberlain...
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    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited June 2016
    Mike and TSE. Many thanks for your efforts over the last weeks.

    Barring a few minutes for particular highlights I kept the TV off to avoid being irritated by campbell and the other so called expert talking heads.

    Instead I reclined on a sofa with a sofa tuned to politicalbetting vanilla on a smartphone and refreshed when I ran out of posts to read.

    It kept me bang up to date and informed, far better than any news channel ticker or pundits.

    Thank you.
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    FPT: maybe Boris Island is back on the agenda.

    Surely we are going to listen to the independent commission??
    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    FPT: maybe Boris Island is back on the agenda.

    Surely we are going to listen to the independent commission??
    Don't be silly, they're experts.
    Boris will build a new airport in Witney. You heard it here first.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920
    edited June 2016
    AndyJS said:

    Channel 4 News compares Cameron to Eden and Chamberlain.

    Cameron was compared to Chamberlain on telly last weekend. I wonder if he knew then that the game was up? ;)
  • Options
    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    Tabman said:

    This revolution is the final roll of the dice for the boomer generation. Not content with stealing all our wealth, they steal our futures too.

    Does anybody know what the demographic is 18-40 41- dead?

    If the oldies outnumber the young they may have grounds to complain. If not, tough, get out and vote
  • Options
    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited June 2016
    John_M said:

    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    FPT: maybe Boris Island is back on the agenda.

    Surely we are going to listen to the independent commission??
    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    FPT: maybe Boris Island is back on the agenda.

    Surely we are going to listen to the independent commission??
    Don't be silly, they're experts.
    Boris will build a new airport in Witney. You heard it here first.
    Didcot I think is the proposal - but its not that far from Witney
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,032
    Thrak said:

    On behalf of baby boomers (whether they want me to or not), I apologise wholeheartedly. We have been, and still are, a generation that has sucked the best out of life and left those coming after with the dregs. We had the pensions, the student gramts, the consumer boom etc. etc.

    But, hey, we still voted yesterday in your interest, despite you somehow daring to vote and differently,

    The sooner our generation is gone the better. I'm sure you will agree on that at least.

    Please don't go. Just make GE 2017/18/19/20 the pro-youth election. You have the power. Some humble proposals: Build houses in ok and even good areas, even if it reduces prices. Fund education, even if your kids / your relatives' kids are already out of the system. Please don't lecture youth on what it means to be British when a lifelong component of young people's Britishness has been destroyed. That's all.
  • Options
    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    perdix said:

    O/T Warning! Avoid upgrade to Windows 10. Has a bug which results in frequent script error messages which can't be suppressed even when choosing the correct settings to do so. If you're happy with the OS which you have stick with it.

    I wish there was a button that said "No thank you, I do not wish to upgrade to Windows 10".

    And another when it has still tried to get you to upgrade for the umpteenth time that said "Will you just fuck off and LEAVE ME ALONE. NO, I DO NOT WANT TO UPGRADE."
    You should install a little application called "GWX Control Panel" that shuts off the messages.

    http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/

    PM me if you need more info, I deal with this crap for a day job.
    As the Queen would say "oh bad luck"
    I do IT for SMEs, a lot of them don't have a Domain so can't control updates etc centrally. Let's say I've had a busy few months dealing with all this crap, MS deserve to lose serious market share (which they are, to Macs and tablets) over pulling this crap on their customers.
    Funnily enough so do I though our customers are larger and generally have domain controllers.
  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    edited June 2016
    Moses_ said:

    "The young have had their preferred Establishment shattered on their behalf. "

    Yeah I know that feeling and the first time I was given the choice since 17 years old some 42 years I had to vote leave.

    Deal with it like I and many of us had to then which we did with respect for the democratic process and just got on with it. Something you Remainers cannot do. FFF I saw on a previous thread one poster considered that 52/48 was the matter not settled.

    As was stated at the first referendum that's democracy for you.

    The 1975 referendum was 65-35. Hardly a valid comparison.

    Leave have won but they have certainly not gained an emphatic mandate.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618

    Gary Gibbon on C4 News just compared Cameron's premiership with Eden and Chamberlain...

    I think his reform package will definitely go down as one of the biggest strategic errors of all time. I think we may have stayed in without that, a lot of the anger in the Tory membership came from the EU completely ignoring the PM and watering down already quite thin gruel.
  • Options
    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    Thrak said:

    On behalf of baby boomers (whether they want me to or not), I apologise wholeheartedly. We have been, and still are, a generation that has sucked the best out of life and left those coming after with the dregs. We had the pensions, the student gramts, the consumer boom etc. etc.

    But, hey, we still voted yesterday in your interest, despite you somehow daring to vote and differently,

    The sooner our generation is gone the better. I'm sure you will agree on that at least.

    Drivel. You may have screwed everything you could out of the system. Not all of us have.
  • Options
    EPG said:

    Thrak said:

    On behalf of baby boomers (whether they want me to or not), I apologise wholeheartedly. We have been, and still are, a generation that has sucked the best out of life and left those coming after with the dregs. We had the pensions, the student gramts, the consumer boom etc. etc.

    But, hey, we still voted yesterday in your interest, despite you somehow daring to vote and differently,

    The sooner our generation is gone the better. I'm sure you will agree on that at least.

    Please don't go. Just make GE 2017/18/19/20 the pro-youth election. You have the power. Some humble proposals: Build houses in ok and even good areas, even if it reduces prices. Fund education, even if your kids / your relatives' kids are already out of the system. Please don't lecture youth on what it means to be British when a lifelong component of young people's Britishness has been destroyed. That's all.
    Does it occur to you that if the economy does implode with consequent collapses in house prices and other asset prices it will inevitably result in huge transfer of wealth from old to young.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146

    10+ years we have been pissing about with his new southern airport. Just get on with it!

    *looks around for new location for third London airport*

    Now, who voted most for Remain?"
    I don't think you could fit it in Hyde Park.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,324
    Yes, the twisted old wrecks clearly couldn't stomach the welcome and cooperation the younger generation were happy to extend to our European partners and went out of their way to smash it. What a resentful bunch of old rotters!
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    OT , in reply to AndyJS, I think - That London secession petition will be up to 200,000 by next week, at that current rate. Extraordinary times.

    Time for an English parliament, located in Knowsley...
    With accommodation blocks in Skelmersdale....
    Yep, we might actually get politicians who would listen to, and care about, the WWC and WNWC if they had to live and work among them...
    I wonder if the local Labour parties in WWC areas have taken the subtle hint from today's events. I say subtle, but it's about as subtle as @TSE's pop music references!

    They need to find good and experienced local councillors for Parliamentary seats, not some jumped up young Islingtonite SpAd from Head Office, who doesn't have anything in common with their constituents.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,032

    EPG said:

    Thrak said:

    On behalf of baby boomers (whether they want me to or not), I apologise wholeheartedly. We have been, and still are, a generation that has sucked the best out of life and left those coming after with the dregs. We had the pensions, the student gramts, the consumer boom etc. etc.

    But, hey, we still voted yesterday in your interest, despite you somehow daring to vote and differently,

    The sooner our generation is gone the better. I'm sure you will agree on that at least.

    Please don't go. Just make GE 2017/18/19/20 the pro-youth election. You have the power. Some humble proposals: Build houses in ok and even good areas, even if it reduces prices. Fund education, even if your kids / your relatives' kids are already out of the system. Please don't lecture youth on what it means to be British when a lifelong component of young people's Britishness has been destroyed. That's all.
    Does it occur to you that if the economy does implode with consequent collapses in house prices and other asset prices it will inevitably result in huge transfer of wealth from old to young.
    No. That is a transfer of wealth from old to nowhere.
  • Options
    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited June 2016
    The London lefty mentality: only votes of people like me count.

  • Options
    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Sandpit said:

    The Chilcott Report is coming soon.

    Hopefully more political fun from that.

    Fingers crossed there's plenty of shit coming for Campbell. Odious little toad that couldn't keep himself from running round the studios again today.
    Don't expect miracles. Look at who were both directors at the same time on this company:

    https://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC163703/ABRAXA-LIMITED/directors-secretaries

    Yes you've seen it right a Malcolm Leslie Rifkind and John Chilcot.

    Mr Chilcot is not an independent figure like the establishment would wish you to believe. As such he is a deeply ineligible figure to stand at the head of a genuinely independent report.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970

    Spencer Livermore first political figure to back autonomous London, apparently.

    A London with far more devolved power than it has currently is as inevitable as a second Scottish independence referendum. The only issue is when.

  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Not much discussion on Scotland, but it appears to me that Sturgeon has got a bit problem. One thing the it feels last night brought into perspective was quite how comprehensive the defeat was in the Scottish referendum, whatever the subsequent benefits to the SNP under FPTP. Last night at 52-48 really felt like a comprehensive defeat, and never really felt close all night. The Scottish referendum was 55-45 which in comparison feels like a massacre. It's difficult to see a margin of that size being overcome, whatever the situation change with the EU. None of the problems the yes camp had at the time have been remotely resolved, and it's difficult to believe that the EU will swing it that much. Especially as it still wouldn't really be a choice between EU and not EU.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    MaxPB said:

    Gary Gibbon on C4 News just compared Cameron's premiership with Eden and Chamberlain...

    I think his reform package will definitely go down as one of the biggest strategic errors of all time. I think we may have stayed in without that, a lot of the anger in the Tory membership came from the EU completely ignoring the PM and watering down already quite thin gruel.
    That combined with his misguided decision to block any European figures from getting involved in the campaign. It just fed the image of a hostile bureaucracy that just wanted our contribution to the budget.
  • Options
    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    I wonder what John McDonnell is doing over the weekend?

    He has had rather nice little run recently, all urbane and whatnot.

    Crafty wee s**t.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132
    MaxPB said:

    Gary Gibbon on C4 News just compared Cameron's premiership with Eden and Chamberlain...

    I think his reform package will definitely go down as one of the biggest strategic errors of all time. I think we may have stayed in without that, a lot of the anger in the Tory membership came from the EU completely ignoring the PM and watering down already quite thin gruel.
    Cameron's problem was in mistaking his luck for ability.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,713
    Sandpit said:

    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    OT , in reply to AndyJS, I think - That London secession petition will be up to 200,000 by next week, at that current rate. Extraordinary times.

    Time for an English parliament, located in Knowsley...
    With accommodation blocks in Skelmersdale....
    Yep, we might actually get politicians who would listen to, and care about, the WWC and WNWC if they had to live and work among them...
    I wonder if the local Labour parties in WWC areas have taken the subtle hint from today's events. I say subtle, but it's about as subtle as @TSE's pop music references!

    They need to find good and experienced local councillors for Parliamentary seats, not some jumped up young Islingtonite SpAd from Head Office, who doesn't have anything in common with their constituents.
    The trouble is that the CLPs are full of euro-enthusiasts who have just been annoying their core voters for the past three months.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    On iconoclasts: Byzantium underwent a prolonged period of iconoclasts and iconodules battling one another, but eventually the iconodules[sp] won.
  • Options
    On C4 News is a young lady reporter in a complete panic meltdown Helia Ebrahimi their
    Business Correspondent. Talking about a greek style meltdown, worst this and worst that...
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2016
    Can't believe it's a Tory leadership campaign again. Back to the good old days. "Something of the night" and all that.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited June 2016

    MaxPB said:

    Gary Gibbon on C4 News just compared Cameron's premiership with Eden and Chamberlain...

    I think his reform package will definitely go down as one of the biggest strategic errors of all time. I think we may have stayed in without that, a lot of the anger in the Tory membership came from the EU completely ignoring the PM and watering down already quite thin gruel.
    Cameron's problem was in mistaking his luck for ability.
    Quite.

    He and Osborne also misunderstood why they won in 2015. They thought it was "the economy stupid" that won it, and therefore tried to repeat it in the Referendum -- in reality, it was identity politics ("stop the Jocks and the benefit scroungers taking your money") that won it for them in 2015, and it was Leave that ran that kind of line this time.
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    Also on C4 News is PB "favourite" for Cameron's successor, Nikki Morgan. She says it is important that a woman is on the ballot of the final two. Tokenism lives.
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    Thrak said:

    On behalf of baby boomers (whether they want me to or not), I apologise wholeheartedly. We have been, and still are, a generation that has sucked the best out of life and left those coming after with the dregs. We had the pensions, the student gramts, the consumer boom etc. etc.

    But, hey, we still voted yesterday in your interest, despite you somehow daring to vote and differently,

    The sooner our generation is gone the better. I'm sure you will agree on that at least.

    Ha ha, we also had lack of equal opportunities (girls wanting to study physics at school, whatever next); unequal pay & sexual harassment as standard in the workplace; nice fuggy offices thick with other people's smoke; ah, those were the days.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920
    edited June 2016

    On C4 News is a young lady reporter in a complete panic meltdown Helia Ebrahimi their
    Business Correspondent. Talking about a greek style meltdown, worst this and worst that...

    It's a drama isn't it... One feels like gently sitting these journo's down and asking them to take a deep breath and calm down a bit.

    I think it's good we've got a weekend coming up to allow everyone to get some sleep and get their emotions under control...
  • Options
    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited June 2016
    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Thrak said:

    On behalf of baby boomers (whether they want me to or not), I apologise wholeheartedly. We have been, and still are, a generation that has sucked the best out of life and left those coming after with the dregs. We had the pensions, the student gramts, the consumer boom etc. etc.

    But, hey, we still voted yesterday in your interest, despite you somehow daring to vote and differently,

    The sooner our generation is gone the better. I'm sure you will agree on that at least.

    Please don't go. Just make GE 2017/18/19/20 the pro-youth election. You have the power. Some humble proposals: Build houses in ok and even good areas, even if it reduces prices. Fund education, even if your kids / your relatives' kids are already out of the system. Please don't lecture youth on what it means to be British when a lifelong component of young people's Britishness has been destroyed. That's all.
    Does it occur to you that if the economy does implode with consequent collapses in house prices and other asset prices it will inevitably result in huge transfer of wealth from old to young.
    No. That is a transfer of wealth from old to nowhere.
    Rubbish. If a house halves in value, when the owner dies their middle aged offspring get half as much, however the young couple buying it have half as big a mortgage so have more disposable income (ie more wealthy in real terms).

    Also if house prices halve buy to let landlords go bust and lose not just their rented out houses but their family home and end up in a damp bedsit which teaches them that being antisocial greedy speculators can have negative consequences. Meanwhile young couples buy the ex rented houses at a knockdown price and are better off because the mortgage payments are less than the payments to the greedy landlord were and unlike the greedy landlord who did the miniumum maintenance they take pride in and look after their house so improving the housing stock and by reflection the local area.
This discussion has been closed.