politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The referendum: The affluent versus the non-affluent summed
Comments
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They aren'tScott_P said:More bloody experts
@Breakingviews: Brexit could trigger a liquidity migraine. @swahapattanaik https://t.co/9uZQRipF2D https://t.co/ceHEkFXy5K
Luckily, nobody is listening to them...0 -
Are you sure ?MarkSenior said:
We shall see on Thursday who is right .kle4 said:
You might not accept it, but they are. You may think it irrational, they though should think about threat to their jobs, but most don't appear to care - or they think there's threats to those anyway, so why not express the anger they have toward the EU and the government.MarkSenior said:
I don't accept that it is the WWC who are voting in strength for Leave . The WWC I suspect will think about the threat to their jobs and vote Remain . The WNWC , the unemployed and shirkers who expect to receive benefits whilst sitting at home watching horse racing on the TV on the other hand will vote strongly for Leavercs1000 said:
18-24 year olds have historically had low-turnout, and the old have traditionally had high turnoutJamesP said:
*Anecdote Alert* During the 2010 General Election, my university had a polling station for the roughly 1500 people living on campus. Apparently turnout was around 30%, yes some people may have voted in their home constituency, by post, but I don't suspect the number was particularly great, I only know of two people who did and one them was myself. Maybe the EU Referendum will enthuse a higher turnout, personally I doubt whether students 18-24, will be able to get to 50% turnout.nunu said:Remain relying on 18-24 year olds in full time education. Lol. Their turnout will be 55℅ at best.
Good for Leave
ABs and the university educated usually turn up to vote, and those without qualifications or in C2 or DE are less likely to
Good for Remain
I think TC has this one right; if the WWC turns up, it's Leave. If they don't, it's Remain.
That would be a remarkably quick analysis of the polling seeing as not even Sunderland will have finished the count by midnight
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It's my birthday todaypeter_from_putney said:
Indeed, it's my birthday as well as being very adjacent to the summer Solstice.RobD said:
What's wrong with 23rd June?FrankBooth said:Given the US has the 4th July, what about the 5th July? It would make things easier what with the inter-connected banking system. And 5th July is the anniversary of the 1945 general election.
! 0 -
Since this is a national election does it matter where people are registered?TudorRose said:
I do wonder about the reliability of turnout figures for this age group. Remember that most students can be registered to vote in 2 places but can only vote in 1, which caps the turnout for them at 50%.nunu said:Remain relying on 18-24 year olds in full time education. Lol. Their turnout will be 55℅ at best.
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Remainers do tooScott_P said:@ftwestminster: Brexiters split into nice and nasty camps https://t.co/26jeLWh7yV
Osbornites (nasty fokkers ) and human beings.0 -
Things have moved on. All polls show working class voters favour Leave now. Home owners also favour Leave. Are you saying home owners are chavvy layabouts?MarkSenior said:
Yes based on polling evidence . Around 6 weeks ago ( ICM IIRC ) had a poll which showed Leave being favoured by only 2 groups the Unemployed and the Retired . You and several other Leavers on here got quite upset with me when I pointed this out .Sean_F said:
Is that assertion based upon polling evidence or sheer prejudice?MarkSenior said:
I don't accept that it is the WWC who are voting in strength for Leave . The WWC I suspect will think about the threat to their jobs and vote Remain . The WNWC , the unemployed and shirkers who expect to receive benefits whilst sitting at home watching horse racing on the TV on the other hand will vote strongly for Leavercs1000 said:
18-24 year olds have historically had low-turnout, and the old have traditionally had high turnoutJamesP said:
*Anecdote Alert* During the 2010 General Election, my university had a polling station for the roughly 1500 people living on campus. Apparently turnout was around 30%, yes some people may have voted in their home constituency, by post, but I don't suspect the number was particularly great, I only know of two people who did and one them was myself. Maybe the EU Referendum will enthuse a higher turnout, personally I doubt whether students 18-24, will be able to get to 50% turnout.nunu said:Remain relying on 18-24 year olds in full time education. Lol. Their turnout will be 55℅ at best.
Good for Leave
ABs and the university educated usually turn up to vote, and those without qualifications or in C2 or DE are less likely to
Good for Remain
I think TC has this one right; if the WWC turns up, it's Leave. If they don't, it's Remain.
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Happy birthday!Pulpstar said:
It's my birthday todaypeter_from_putney said:
Indeed, it's my birthday as well as being very adjacent to the summer Solstice.RobD said:
What's wrong with 23rd June?FrankBooth said:Given the US has the 4th July, what about the 5th July? It would make things easier what with the inter-connected banking system. And 5th July is the anniversary of the 1945 general election.
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Andrea Leadsom
An open letter to my constituents on why we should Vote Leave on Thursday:
https://t.co/woTi4osEBw
@vote_leave0 -
Are you an employer by any chance?rcs1000 said:
It's not clear to me why the government should be in the business of legislating when people work.SandyRentool said:
They could call themselves The Popular Partyrcs1000 said:
Not another f*cking bank holiday please.Fenster said:Boris should go on telly on Weds and offer the final Friday in June as a national bank holiday called British Independence Day.
That'd set the cat among the pigeons.
I'd vote for any political party that offered to cut it back to two: New Year's day and one in the summer.
Not.0 -
Other canvassers have reported the contrary. Perhaps punters just tell you what they think you want to hear.anothernick said:
I've done several canvassing sessions with Labour In in London - admittedly it's a borough identified as leaning to Remain but the results have been overwhelming - you're looking at more than 70% remain - perhaps 80% assuming the don't knows split 50-50. Leavers are a tiny minority, even in social housing estates.taffys said:''Sitting in Hampstead, and I realise I'm getting a very London-centric view, I'm not sure I agree. It's 29-1 in my office, and I've counted North of 30 Remain posters in my 'hood at the weekend, against zero for Leave.''
Indeed, but ABC1 takes many forms. JohnO has posted how shocked he was at the support for Leave in Elmbridge, which is Britain's taxpayer powerhouse.
I have a feeling when some pollsters think ABC1 they think well paid public sector civil servants - but anyway, we shall see.0 -
Ironically, I read the document on the VAT proposal last night while discussing the EU with a friend online (I know, I'm a bit sad).PlatoSaid said:New Vote Leave poster playing Remain at their own game
New EU rules on tax could cost each household over £2,600 ─► https://t.co/sVfUAQi1bE
#VoteLeave https://t.co/LG33aHaHXU
It does strike me that it actually said nearly the opposite of what Vote Leave are claiming - that the EU propose making VAT exclusions and zero rating more flexible, and suggest either making it easier and swifter to update the list of exclusions and zero rating, or getting rid of the entire list and letting Member States largely do exclusions and zero ratings as they see fit.
To be fair, the earlier Remain bombshell had a large amount of bullshit in it (exaggeration of actual claims and taking worst cases, plus comparing between two alternative rates of increase), but this one is actually diametrically opposed to what it's based on.
Sadly, I'm confident very few will bother to check either.0 -
When environments are changing, experts are the absolute worst predictors. They have the most invested in the existing paradigm.Scott_P said:
It's unarguably not a good thing. The Trumpification of politics is bad news. For everybody.nunu said:This not listening to experts meme is not going to help Remain. People just don't believe them anymore. Not saying its a good thing. Just the way it is.
I am anti-Trump. But the Trumpification of politics, as you put it, has come about not because of him, but because of the serial failures of the expert politicians.0 -
Today is the Solstice (leap year)!peter_from_putney said:
Indeed, it's my birthday as well as being very adjacent to the summer Solstice.RobD said:
What's wrong with 23rd June?FrankBooth said:Given the US has the 4th July, what about the 5th July? It would make things easier what with the inter-connected banking system. And 5th July is the anniversary of the 1945 general election.
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Which area of London please.anothernick said:
I've done several canvassing sessions with Labour In in London - admittedly it's a borough identified as leaning to Remain but the results have been overwhelming - you're looking at more than 70% remain - perhaps 80% assuming the don't knows split 50-50. Leavers are a tiny minority, even in social housing estates.taffys said:''Sitting in Hampstead, and I realise I'm getting a very London-centric view, I'm not sure I agree. It's 29-1 in my office, and I've counted North of 30 Remain posters in my 'hood at the weekend, against zero for Leave.''
Indeed, but ABC1 takes many forms. JohnO has posted how shocked he was at the support for Leave in Elmbridge, which is Britain's taxpayer powerhouse.
I have a feeling when some pollsters think ABC1 they think well paid public sector civil servants - but anyway, we shall see.0 -
Fair Go, Mr 43, let me phrase it another way. It doesn't matter a toss to me (an older person) personally whether we stay in or go out, I am not likely to be around long enough to be bothered either way. What I do care about is the future my son will have to cope with. So I'll vote accordingly.FF43 said:
I didn't say it does nor that it should. Apart from the fact people have perfectly sensible reasons for making their individual and different choices - as a generalisation I think Leave is a rational choice for older people, as I said at the start.HurstLlama said:
Mr 43, A child may well have a different view on an issue from its parent. That does not however stop the parent from doing what it thinks it is in the best interest of the child, and nor should it.FF43 said:
The issue with that is that their children and grandchildren have a different view from them as to where their own interests lie. I don't intend to denigrate older people's viewpoints and I can see it might have come across that I do. It's that the world is a different place from what it was in the seventies and before.HurstLlama said:
Most pensioners do not care as much about themselves as they do about the futures of their children and grandchildren. Please take that as a starting point and then think about why the vote as they do.FF43 said:
They are people who have been left behind by globalisation. Either old dogs who don't want to learn new tricks or dogs who never had any tricks. I don't think they are right about the EU, but leaving is a rational choice for them and I think their thinking deserves some understanding.Anorak said:So, putting it simply, the people most likely to swing a leave vote are those who currently contribute the least, and those who will have to live with the consequences for the shortest amount of time.
Ain't democracy grand.0 -
I've created several hundred jobs in the UK. You?Starfall said:
Are you an employer by any chance?rcs1000 said:
It's not clear to me why the government should be in the business of legislating when people work.SandyRentool said:
They could call themselves The Popular Partyrcs1000 said:
Not another f*cking bank holiday please.Fenster said:Boris should go on telly on Weds and offer the final Friday in June as a national bank holiday called British Independence Day.
That'd set the cat among the pigeons.
I'd vote for any political party that offered to cut it back to two: New Year's day and one in the summer.
Not.0 -
Leave vote will be yuge in South Northamptonshire.PlatoSaid said:Andrea Leadsom
An open letter to my constituents on why we should Vote Leave on Thursday:
https://t.co/woTi4osEBw
@vote_leave0 -
Yes if they are registered twice, because it will bring the aggregate turnout down. In the case of students who are registered at home and at college they will have a maximum turnout of 50% even if they all vote. Probably doesn't make a big difference overall but could be a significant factor in why official turnout stats have such low figures amongst 18-24s.nunu said:
Since this is a national election does it matter where people are registered?TudorRose said:
I do wonder about the reliability of turnout figures for this age group. Remember that most students can be registered to vote in 2 places but can only vote in 1, which caps the turnout for them at 50%.nunu said:Remain relying on 18-24 year olds in full time education. Lol. Their turnout will be 55℅ at best.
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I think it's more a case of where one is canvassing. Canvass Lambeth, and you'll get overwhelming support for Remain. Canvass Havering, and you'll get overwhelming support for Leave.PeterC said:
Other canvassers have reported the contrary. Perhaps punters just tell you what they think you want to hear.anothernick said:
I've done several canvassing sessions with Labour In in London - admittedly it's a borough identified as leaning to Remain but the results have been overwhelming - you're looking at more than 70% remain - perhaps 80% assuming the don't knows split 50-50. Leavers are a tiny minority, even in social housing estates.taffys said:''Sitting in Hampstead, and I realise I'm getting a very London-centric view, I'm not sure I agree. It's 29-1 in my office, and I've counted North of 30 Remain posters in my 'hood at the weekend, against zero for Leave.''
Indeed, but ABC1 takes many forms. JohnO has posted how shocked he was at the support for Leave in Elmbridge, which is Britain's taxpayer powerhouse.
I have a feeling when some pollsters think ABC1 they think well paid public sector civil servants - but anyway, we shall see.0 -
As I type there is £60k wanting to lay Remain at around 1/3 on betfair.0
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Strange couple of threads - mass panic among Leavers for no obvious reason except the markets, and that could be profit-taking or false rumours or who knows what. The weekend polls did suggest that Remain was catching up, but overcoming the undoubtedly less favouralbe postasl votes must be a challenge.
I replied in the last thread about Remain GOTV work - lots in London, not sure about elsewhere. Is there a serious Leave GOTV operation?0 -
I would expect renters to do better out of Brexit than home owners, especially in London.Sean_F said:
Things have moved on. All polls show working class voters favour Leave now. Home owners also favour Leave. Are you saying home owners are chavvy layabouts?MarkSenior said:
Yes based on polling evidence . Around 6 weeks ago ( ICM IIRC ) had a poll which showed Leave being favoured by only 2 groups the Unemployed and the Retired . You and several other Leavers on here got quite upset with me when I pointed this out .Sean_F said:
Is that assertion based upon polling evidence or sheer prejudice?MarkSenior said:
I don't accept that it is the WWC who are voting in strength for Leave . The WWC I suspect will think about the threat to their jobs and vote Remain . The WNWC , the unemployed and shirkers who expect to receive benefits whilst sitting at home watching horse racing on the TV on the other hand will vote strongly for Leavercs1000 said:
18-24 year olds have historically had low-turnout, and the old have traditionally had high turnoutJamesP said:
*Anecdote Alert* During the 2010 General Election, my university had a polling station for the roughly 1500 people living on campus. Apparently turnout was around 30%, yes some people may have voted in their home constituency, by post, but I don't suspect the number was particularly great, I only know of two people who did and one them was myself. Maybe the EU Referendum will enthuse a higher turnout, personally I doubt whether students 18-24, will be able to get to 50% turnout.nunu said:Remain relying on 18-24 year olds in full time education. Lol. Their turnout will be 55℅ at best.
Good for Leave
ABs and the university educated usually turn up to vote, and those without qualifications or in C2 or DE are less likely to
Good for Remain
I think TC has this one right; if the WWC turns up, it's Leave. If they don't, it's Remain.0 -
No, it's a hugely 'good thing'. The corollary of 'experts' doing the thinking is people not doing the thinking. That's the whole point. Stay in the EU, because experts say so. We've got it right on health even though you're sick. There's no God, because Professor Dawkins has written so on a bus - so that's ok then. The reaction isn't against intellectuals, it's against an obnoxious and compromised commentariat using men in white coats as a stick to beat independent thought out of people, not into them. Blanket dismissal of such pronouncements isn't a sophisticated response, but as a default one it could be worse.Scott_P said:
It's unarguably not a good thing. The Trumpification of politics is bad news. For everybody.nunu said:This not listening to experts meme is not going to help Remain. People just don't believe them anymore. Not saying its a good thing. Just the way it is.
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Does anyone check that they dont vote twice?TudorRose said:
Yes if they are registered twice, because it will bring the aggregate turnout down. In the case of students who are registered at home and at college they will have a maximum turnout of 50% even if they all vote. Probably doesn't make a big difference overall but could be a significant factor in why official turnout stats have such low figures amongst 18-24s.nunu said:
Since this is a national election does it matter where people are registered?TudorRose said:
I do wonder about the reliability of turnout figures for this age group. Remember that most students can be registered to vote in 2 places but can only vote in 1, which caps the turnout for them at 50%.nunu said:Remain relying on 18-24 year olds in full time education. Lol. Their turnout will be 55℅ at best.
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Spot on Mr L.HurstLlama said:
Fair Go, Mr 43, let me phrase it another way. It doesn't matter a toss to me (an older person) personally whether we stay in or go out, I am not likely to be around long enough to be bothered either way. What I do care about is the future my son will have to cope with. So I'll vote accordingly.FF43 said:
I didn't say it does nor that it should. Apart from the fact people have perfectly sensible reasons for making their individual and different choices - as a generalisation I think Leave is a rational choice for older people, as I said at the start.HurstLlama said:
Mr 43, A child may well have a different view on an issue from its parent. That does not however stop the parent from doing what it thinks it is in the best interest of the child, and nor should it.FF43 said:
The issue with that is that their children and grandchildren have a different view from them as to where their own interests lie. I don't intend to denigrate older people's viewpoints and I can see it might have come across that I do. It's that the world is a different place from what it was in the seventies and before.HurstLlama said:
Most pensioners do not care as much about themselves as they do about the futures of their children and grandchildren. Please take that as a starting point and then think about why the vote as they do.FF43 said:
They are people who have been left behind by globalisation. Either old dogs who don't want to learn new tricks or dogs who never had any tricks. I don't think they are right about the EU, but leaving is a rational choice for them and I think their thinking deserves some understanding.Anorak said:So, putting it simply, the people most likely to swing a leave vote are those who currently contribute the least, and those who will have to live with the consequences for the shortest amount of time.
Ain't democracy grand.
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I agree wholly with your POV on bank holidays; they just happen to be very popular.rcs1000 said:
I've created several hundred jobs in the UK. You?Starfall said:
Are you an employer by any chance?rcs1000 said:
It's not clear to me why the government should be in the business of legislating when people work.SandyRentool said:
They could call themselves The Popular Partyrcs1000 said:
Not another f*cking bank holiday please.Fenster said:Boris should go on telly on Weds and offer the final Friday in June as a national bank holiday called British Independence Day.
That'd set the cat among the pigeons.
I'd vote for any political party that offered to cut it back to two: New Year's day and one in the summer.
Not.0 -
Happy Birthday, Mr. Star!Pulpstar said:
It's my birthday todaypeter_from_putney said:
Indeed, it's my birthday as well as being very adjacent to the summer Solstice.RobD said:
What's wrong with 23rd June?FrankBooth said:Given the US has the 4th July, what about the 5th July? It would make things easier what with the inter-connected banking system. And 5th July is the anniversary of the 1945 general election.
! 0 -
But vote will still count if they are registered in one area and vote in another? Surely it should?TudorRose said:
Yes if they are registered twice, because it will bring the aggregate turnout down. In the case of students who are registered at home and at college they will have a maximum turnout of 50% even if they all vote. Probably doesn't make a big difference overall but could be a significant factor in why official turnout stats have such low figures amongst 18-24s.nunu said:
Since this is a national election does it matter where people are registered?TudorRose said:
I do wonder about the reliability of turnout figures for this age group. Remember that most students can be registered to vote in 2 places but can only vote in 1, which caps the turnout for them at 50%.nunu said:Remain relying on 18-24 year olds in full time education. Lol. Their turnout will be 55℅ at best.
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/Luckyguy1983 said:No, it's a hugely 'good thing'.
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It's also one reason why Oxford and Cambridge (and Edinburgh to an extent) need careful consideration before you back them as the 'most remain' voting areas.john_zims said:@nunu
'Since this is a national election does it matter where people are registered?
Yes, if they are registered at Uni & are now back home.0 -
Not in Luton, but huge amounts of leafletting. We decided that the lack of historical canvassing data would have made it very difficult to do an effective canvass.NickPalmer said:Strange couple of threads - mass panic among Leavers for no obvious reason except the markets, and that could be profit-taking or false rumours or who knows what. The weekend polls did suggest that Remain was catching up, but overcoming the undoubtedly less favouralbe postasl votes must be a challenge.
I replied in the last thread about Remain GOTV work - lots in London, not sure about elsewhere. Is there a serious Leave GOTV operation?0 -
Also encourages national culture as people can organise events knowing most people wont be working or usual weekend commitments.Luckyguy1983 said:
I agree wholly with your POV on bank holidays; they just happen to be very popular.rcs1000 said:
I've created several hundred jobs in the UK. You?Starfall said:
Are you an employer by any chance?rcs1000 said:
It's not clear to me why the government should be in the business of legislating when people work.SandyRentool said:
They could call themselves The Popular Partyrcs1000 said:
Not another f*cking bank holiday please.Fenster said:Boris should go on telly on Weds and offer the final Friday in June as a national bank holiday called British Independence Day.
That'd set the cat among the pigeons.
I'd vote for any political party that offered to cut it back to two: New Year's day and one in the summer.
Not.0 -
0
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I think the WWC have a number of things on their minds, including their jobs. But not quite as you state:MarkSenior said:
We shall see on Thursday who is right .kle4 said:
You might not accept it, but they are. You may think it irrational, they though should think about threat to their jobs, but most don't appear to care - or they think there's threats to those anyway, so why not express the anger they have toward the EU and the government.MarkSenior said:
I don't accept that it is the WWC who are voting in strength for Leave . The WWC I suspect will think about the threat to their jobs and vote Remain . The WNWC , the unemployed and shirkers who expect to receive benefits whilst sitting at home watching horse racing on the TV on the other hand will vote strongly for Leavercs1000 said:
18-24 year olds have historically had low-turnout, and the old have traditionally had high turnoutJamesP said:
*Anecdote Alert* During the 2010 General Election, my university had a polling station for the roughly 1500 people living on campus. Apparently turnout was around 30%, yes some people may have voted in their home constituency, by post, but I don't suspect the number was particularly great, I only know of two people who did and one them was myself. Maybe the EU Referendum will enthuse a higher turnout, personally I doubt whether students 18-24, will be able to get to 50% turnout.nunu said:Remain relying on 18-24 year olds in full time education. Lol. Their turnout will be 55℅ at best.
Good for Leave
ABs and the university educated usually turn up to vote, and those without qualifications or in C2 or DE are less likely to
Good for Remain
I think TC has this one right; if the WWC turns up, it's Leave. If they don't, it's Remain.
1. they are concerned that immigration has suppressed their wages and will continue to do so
2. they are concerned with losing their jobs - but this could be neutral. Leave could result in immediate job losses, then stabilization if immigration is brought under control. Remain could result in job losses, if immigration is unfettered.
PS I am not positing these as my views, but how the decision could be seen from the WWC perspective.0 -
Whatever the result, we can take solace in the fact that there'll be tears before bedtime for either Farage or Osborne come Friday morning.0
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Happy birthdayPulpstar said:
It's my birthday todaypeter_from_putney said:
Indeed, it's my birthday as well as being very adjacent to the summer Solstice.RobD said:
What's wrong with 23rd June?FrankBooth said:Given the US has the 4th July, what about the 5th July? It would make things easier what with the inter-connected banking system. And 5th July is the anniversary of the 1945 general election.
!
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Yes, but because they are registered in two areas, one area will show a voter (and increase turnout) and the other will show a non-voter (and reduce turnout). The individual will have one vote but the turnout figure will be 1/2 (50%).nunu said:
But vote will still count if they are registered in one area and vote in another? Surely it should?TudorRose said:
Yes if they are registered twice, because it will bring the aggregate turnout down. In the case of students who are registered at home and at college they will have a maximum turnout of 50% even if they all vote. Probably doesn't make a big difference overall but could be a significant factor in why official turnout stats have such low figures amongst 18-24s.nunu said:
Since this is a national election does it matter where people are registered?TudorRose said:
I do wonder about the reliability of turnout figures for this age group. Remember that most students can be registered to vote in 2 places but can only vote in 1, which caps the turnout for them at 50%.nunu said:Remain relying on 18-24 year olds in full time education. Lol. Their turnout will be 55℅ at best.
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It's Remain's Last Best Chance.....Jonathan said:Is why the markets turned?
https://twitter.com/hashtag/CatsAgainstBrexit0 -
You would think so - but my (almost certainly not demographically correct) conversations are coming back something like 60% Remain rather than the 85%+ Remain that I was expecting. Quite a few 'Green Leaves' type voters as well as a long-term Kate Hoey / Old Labour voters that are following her lead and going 'Leave'.Sean_F said:
I think it's more a case of where one is canvassing. Canvass Lambeth, and you'll get overwhelming support for Remain.PeterC said:
Other canvassers have reported the contrary. Perhaps punters just tell you what they think you want to hear.anothernick said:
I've done several canvassing sessions with Labour In in London - admittedly it's a borough identified as leaning to Remain but the results have been overwhelming - you're looking at more than 70% remain - perhaps 80% assuming the don't knows split 50-50. Leavers are a tiny minority, even in social housing estates.taffys said:''Sitting in Hampstead, and I realise I'm getting a very London-centric view, I'm not sure I agree. It's 29-1 in my office, and I've counted North of 30 Remain posters in my 'hood at the weekend, against zero for Leave.''
Indeed, but ABC1 takes many forms. JohnO has posted how shocked he was at the support for Leave in Elmbridge, which is Britain's taxpayer powerhouse.
I have a feeling when some pollsters think ABC1 they think well paid public sector civil servants - but anyway, we shall see.0 -
Cats would be solidly behind Brexit. They don't like other cats down the street in general, let alone ones from the rest of the EU.Jonathan said:Is why the markets turned?
https://twitter.com/hashtag/CatsAgainstBrexit
And despite having complete freedom of movement, they never intentionally head off more than about 150 yards from home.0 -
£70k now wanting lay Remain at around 1/3, anybody confident either way is a mug. One slip up or unexpected event between now and thursday will seal it. The dreadful murder last week hasn't changed a thing, a howler tomorrow night might do.0
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I asked this question about a week ago and the consensus was no. Makes you think, doesn't it?Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Does anyone check that they dont vote twice?TudorRose said:
Yes if they are registered twice, because it will bring the aggregate turnout down. In the case of students who are registered at home and at college they will have a maximum turnout of 50% even if they all vote. Probably doesn't make a big difference overall but could be a significant factor in why official turnout stats have such low figures amongst 18-24s.nunu said:
Since this is a national election does it matter where people are registered?TudorRose said:
I do wonder about the reliability of turnout figures for this age group. Remember that most students can be registered to vote in 2 places but can only vote in 1, which caps the turnout for them at 50%.nunu said:Remain relying on 18-24 year olds in full time education. Lol. Their turnout will be 55℅ at best.
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The EU takes a percentage of all VAT receipts as part of its funding settlement. With the current and deepening funding crisis in the EU there is no way they are going to allow any reduction in the amount of money they get from this source. Certainly they cannot let member states set the minimum rates and exclusions.Andy_Cooke said:
Ironically, I read the document on the VAT proposal last night while discussing the EU with a friend online (I know, I'm a bit sad).PlatoSaid said:New Vote Leave poster playing Remain at their own game
New EU rules on tax could cost each household over £2,600 ─► https://t.co/sVfUAQi1bE
#VoteLeave https://t.co/LG33aHaHXU
It does strike me that it actually said nearly the opposite of what Vote Leave are claiming - that the EU propose making VAT exclusions and zero rating more flexible, and suggest either making it easier and swifter to update the list of exclusions and zero rating, or getting rid of the entire list and letting Member States largely do exclusions and zero ratings as they see fit.
To be fair, the earlier Remain bombshell had a large amount of bullshit in it (exaggeration of actual claims and taking worst cases, plus comparing between two alternative rates of increase), but this one is actually diametrically opposed to what it's based on.
Sadly, I'm confident very few will bother to check either.0 -
What about dogs? They have rabies concerns, of course.Pulpstar said:
Cats would be solidly behind Brexit. They don't like other cats down the street in general, let alone ones from the rest of the EU.Jonathan said:Is why the markets turned?
https://twitter.com/hashtag/CatsAgainstBrexit0 -
It depends what you're using experts for.Scott_P said:
If I'm having my brain operated on, absolutely, I would far prefer to have a qualified brain surgeon doing the job than a bus driver.
If I ask the brain surgeon or the bus driver for his opinion on political matters, there's no reason why I should assume that one is better qualified to answer than the other.0 -
We shall indeed.MarkSenior said:
We shall see on Thursday who is right .kle4 said:
You might not accept it, but they are. You may think it irrational, they though should think about threat to their jobs, but most don't appear to care - or they think there's threats to those anyway, so why not express the anger they have toward the EU and the government.MarkSenior said:
I don't accept that it is the WWC who are voting in strength for Leave . The WWC I suspect will think about the threat to their jobs and vote Remain . The WNWC , the unemployed and shirkers who expect to receive benefits whilst sitting at home watching horse racing on the TV on the other hand will vote strongly for Leavercs1000 said:
18-24 year olds have historically had low-turnout, and the old have traditionally had high turnoutJamesP said:
*Anecdote Alert* During the 2010 General Election, my university had a polling station for the roughly 1500 people living on campus. Apparently turnout was around 30%, yes some people may have voted in their home constituency, by post, but I don't suspect the number was particularly great, I only know of two people who did and one them was myself. Maybe the EU Referendum will enthuse a higher turnout, personally I doubt whether students 18-24, will be able to get to 50% turnout.nunu said:Remain relying on 18-24 year olds in full time education. Lol. Their turnout will be 55℅ at best.
Good for Leave
ABs and the university educated usually turn up to vote, and those without qualifications or in C2 or DE are less likely to
Good for Remain
I think TC has this one right; if the WWC turns up, it's Leave. If they don't, it's Remain.
Selfishly of course a remain vote would be OK - it means I can vote my conscience without worry.
-1 -
Believe me students or not Oxford is a sea of remain posters.TudorRose said:
It's also one reason why Oxford and Cambridge (and Edinburgh to an extent) need careful consideration before you back them as the 'most remain' voting areas.john_zims said:@nunu
'Since this is a national election does it matter where people are registered?
Yes, if they are registered at Uni & are now back home.0 -
I expect Plato's cats are trying to tell her something.Jonathan said:Is why the markets turned?
https://twitter.com/hashtag/CatsAgainstBrexit0 -
That's because they left them up before they went home! Seriously, the campus up here (Lancaster) is very quiet and almost no posters.Fenman said:
Believe me students or not Oxford is a sea of remain posters.TudorRose said:
It's also one reason why Oxford and Cambridge (and Edinburgh to an extent) need careful consideration before you back them as the 'most remain' voting areas.john_zims said:@nunu
'Since this is a national election does it matter where people are registered?
Yes, if they are registered at Uni & are now back home.0 -
So was Tessa Munt's constituency last year. Fat lot of good it did her.Fenman said:
Believe me students or not Oxford is a sea of remain posters.TudorRose said:
It's also one reason why Oxford and Cambridge (and Edinburgh to an extent) need careful consideration before you back them as the 'most remain' voting areas.john_zims said:@nunu
'Since this is a national election does it matter where people are registered?
Yes, if they are registered at Uni & are now back home.0 -
There will. And then Farage will carry on as leader as before.Pulpstar said:Whatever the result, we can take solace in the fact that there'll be tears before bedtime for either Farage or Osborne come Friday morning.
0 -
Stonehenge at the Solstice is still on my bucket list - but not much point if it is too cloudy to se the sunrise. Maybe next year.geoffw said:
Today is the Solstice (leap year)!peter_from_putney said:
Indeed, it's my birthday as well as being very adjacent to the summer Solstice.RobD said:
What's wrong with 23rd June?FrankBooth said:Given the US has the 4th July, what about the 5th July? It would make things easier what with the inter-connected banking system. And 5th July is the anniversary of the 1945 general election.
One of the few places you'll see a weirder collection of individuals than pb.com....0 -
It's quite amusing.Sean_F said:
It depends what you're using experts for.Scott_P said:
If I'm having my brain operated on, absolutely, I would far prefer to have a qualified brain surgeon doing the job than a bus driver.
If I ask the brain surgeon or the bus driver for his opinion on political matters, there's no reason why I should assume that one is better qualified to answer than the other.
You use experts for their in depth knowledge of a limited subject.
A referendum is a generalist matter which covers a wide range of issues.
Over reliance on experts simply says youve not understood the exercise0 -
NickPalmer said:
Strange couple of threads - mass panic among Leavers for no obvious reason except the markets, and that could be profit-taking or false rumours or who knows what. The weekend polls did suggest that Remain was catching up, but overcoming the undoubtedly less favouralbe postasl votes must be a challenge.
I replied in the last thread about Remain GOTV work - lots in London, not sure about elsewhere. Is there a serious Leave GOTV operation?
Not sure I agree about the postals. Foreign resident Brits and students do not a brexit make.NickPalmer said:Strange couple of threads - mass panic among Leavers for no obvious reason except the markets, and that could be profit-taking or false rumours or who knows what. The weekend polls did suggest that Remain was catching up, but overcoming the undoubtedly less favouralbe postasl votes must be a challenge.
I replied in the last thread about Remain GOTV work - lots in London, not sure about elsewhere. Is there a serious Leave GOTV operation?0 -
Oh lets hope they both get out of bed crying.Pulpstar said:Whatever the result, we can take solace in the fact that there'll be tears before bedtime for either Farage or Osborne come Friday morning.
It would cheer us all up.0 -
Mr. Pulpstar, happy birthday.0
-
Since this seems to be the habit today... I also have a degree and have spent most of my life working overseas both inside and outside the EU.weejonnie said:
I have one degree and I am voting Leave - or at least I would if my wife weren't supporting remain and is out of the country with no proxy vote - the things you do for marital harmony. Anyone have Zero or Minus one degree?RepublicanTory said:KentRising said:
On the other hand, young people tend to be foolish and thus it's only for the good that their decisions are somewhat diluted by older and wiser heads!Anorak said:So, putting it simply, the people most likely to swing a leave vote are those who currently contribute the least, and those who will have to live with the consequences for the shortest amount of time.
Ain't democracy grand.
I've got three degrees and I'm voting Leave. I acknowledge that I am unusual...
Anyway - more important than the footy is the euro 2016 bridge tournament http://www.eurobridge.org/repository/competitions/16budapest/microsite/RunningScores/Asp/RoundTeamsConditStatClassicMod.asp?qtournid=1210&qshowflag=1 England trouncing Scotland.
And of course I am voting Leave.
The degree/non degree split is a red herring really. Certainly in terms of looking at what sort of people vote Leave or Remain. It stems from the fact that until the mid to late 90s not that many people actually went to university. I went in the early/mid 80s and at the time the rate of school leavers going on to higher education was les than 5%. It is now 50%.
Given that the young are far more Europhile than those of my age and older it is hardly surprising that we see more university educated voting for Remain. It is a simple function of age.
What would be genuinely interesting would be to see the Remain/Leave split amongst those with degrees who are over the age of 50.0 -
Particularly when they use their expertise to support the case for their desired political outcome.Alanbrooke said:
It's quite amusing.Sean_F said:
It depends what you're using experts for.Scott_P said:
If I'm having my brain operated on, absolutely, I would far prefer to have a qualified brain surgeon doing the job than a bus driver.
If I ask the brain surgeon or the bus driver for his opinion on political matters, there's no reason why I should assume that one is better qualified to answer than the other.
You use experts for their in depth knowledge of a limited subject.
A referendum is a generalist matter which covers a wide range of issues.
Over reliance on experts simply says youve not understood the exercise0 -
12/5 on England voting Leave seems pretty generous.
ICM had a 6pt lead on the phones and 8pts online last week.0 -
How many un-resignations will there be, by the end of Friday?Alanbrooke said:
Oh lets hope the both get out of bed crying.Pulpstar said:Whatever the result, we can take solace in the fact that there'll be tears before bedtime for either Farage or Osborne come Friday morning.
It would cheer us all up.
0 -
Very few will be able bothered to vote at Warwick uni then again in the home counties. Calm down.TudorRose said:
I asked this question about a week ago and the consensus was no. Makes you think, doesn't it?Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Does anyone check that they dont vote twice?TudorRose said:
Yes if they are registered twice, because it will bring the aggregate turnout down. In the case of students who are registered at home and at college they will have a maximum turnout of 50% even if they all vote. Probably doesn't make a big difference overall but could be a significant factor in why official turnout stats have such low figures amongst 18-24s.nunu said:
Since this is a national election does it matter where people are registered?TudorRose said:
I do wonder about the reliability of turnout figures for this age group. Remember that most students can be registered to vote in 2 places but can only vote in 1, which caps the turnout for them at 50%.nunu said:Remain relying on 18-24 year olds in full time education. Lol. Their turnout will be 55℅ at best.
0 -
So Eagles and Sturgeon have been dropped for the second leg, whilst Leave field an unchanged side?0
-
I suspect that a lot of both our politicians and posters here would get uncomfortably high marks in one of those DIY aspergers/autism tests.MarqueeMark said:
Stonehenge at the Solstice is still on my bucket list - but not much point if it is too cloudy to se the sunrise. Maybe next year.geoffw said:
Today is the Solstice (leap year)!peter_from_putney said:
Indeed, it's my birthday as well as being very adjacent to the summer Solstice.RobD said:
What's wrong with 23rd June?FrankBooth said:Given the US has the 4th July, what about the 5th July? It would make things easier what with the inter-connected banking system. And 5th July is the anniversary of the 1945 general election.
One of the few places you'll see a weirder collection of individuals than pb.com....0 -
Richard did you see my response to you on both threads earlier?Richard_Tyndall said:
Since this seems to be the habit today... I also have a degree and have spent most of my life working overseas both inside and outside the EU.weejonnie said:
I have one degree and I am voting Leave - or at least I would if my wife weren't supporting remain and is out of the country with no proxy vote - the things you do for marital harmony. Anyone have Zero or Minus one degree?RepublicanTory said:KentRising said:
On the other hand, young people tend to be foolish and thus it's only for the good that their decisions are somewhat diluted by older and wiser heads!Anorak said:So, putting it simply, the people most likely to swing a leave vote are those who currently contribute the least, and those who will have to live with the consequences for the shortest amount of time.
Ain't democracy grand.
I've got three degrees and I'm voting Leave. I acknowledge that I am unusual...
Anyway - more important than the footy is the euro 2016 bridge tournament http://www.eurobridge.org/repository/competitions/16budapest/microsite/RunningScores/Asp/RoundTeamsConditStatClassicMod.asp?qtournid=1210&qshowflag=1 England trouncing Scotland.
And of course I am voting Leave.
The degree/non degree split is a red herring really. Certainly in terms of looking at what sort of people vote Leave or Remain. It stems from the fact that until the mid to late 90s not that many people actually went to university. I went in the early/mid 80s and at the time the rate of school leavers going on to higher education was les than 5%. It is now 50%.
Given that the young are far more Europhile than those of my age and older it is hardly surprising that we see more university educated voting for Remain. It is a simple function of age.
What would be genuinely interesting would be to see the Remain/Leave split amongst those with degrees who are over the age of 50.0 -
Mr. Meek, Rudd also dropped.
It's Sadiq Khan, Frances O'Grady and Ruth Davidson[sp] for Remain.0 -
Nice to see that you are happy to see people being disenfranchised.nunu said:
Still, I suppose it's a step up from the other day when you were encouraging RochdalePioneers to miscount Remain votes in his role as an official counter.0 -
In all likelihood, most retired professional people took their qualifications while working as trainees, rather than going to university.Richard_Tyndall said:
Since this seems to be the habit today... I also have a degree and have spent most of my life working overseas both inside and outside the EU.weejonnie said:
I have one degree and I am voting Leave - or at least I would if my wife weren't supporting remain and is out of the country with no proxy vote - the things you do for marital harmony. Anyone have Zero or Minus one degree?RepublicanTory said:KentRising said:
On the other hand, young people tend to be foolish and thus it's only for the good that their decisions are somewhat diluted by older and wiser heads!Anorak said:So, putting it simply, the people most likely to swing a leave vote are those who currently contribute the least, and those who will have to live with the consequences for the shortest amount of time.
Ain't democracy grand.
I've got three degrees and I'm voting Leave. I acknowledge that I am unusual...
Anyway - more important than the footy is the euro 2016 bridge tournament http://www.eurobridge.org/repository/competitions/16budapest/microsite/RunningScores/Asp/RoundTeamsConditStatClassicMod.asp?qtournid=1210&qshowflag=1 England trouncing Scotland.
And of course I am voting Leave.
The degree/non degree split is a red herring really. Certainly in terms of looking at what sort of people vote Leave or Remain. It stems from the fact that until the mid to late 90s not that many people actually went to university. I went in the early/mid 80s and at the time the rate of school leavers going on to higher education was les than 5%. It is now 50%.
Given that the young are far more Europhile than those of my age and older it is hardly surprising that we see more university educated voting for Remain. It is a simple function of age.
What would be genuinely interesting would be to see the Remain/Leave split amongst those with degrees who are over the age of 50.0 -
The funniest thing Ive seen today was an interview on BBC Breakfast where the young lady representing Remain look positively affronted that people could quite happily consign the experts advice to the bin.Casino_Royale said:
Particularly when they use their expertise to support the case for their desired political outcome.Alanbrooke said:
It's quite amusing.Sean_F said:
It depends what you're using experts for.Scott_P said:
If I'm having my brain operated on, absolutely, I would far prefer to have a qualified brain surgeon doing the job than a bus driver.
If I ask the brain surgeon or the bus driver for his opinion on political matters, there's no reason why I should assume that one is better qualified to answer than the other.
You use experts for their in depth knowledge of a limited subject.
A referendum is a generalist matter which covers a wide range of issues.
Over reliance on experts simply says youve not understood the exercise
Poor dear maybe when she gets older she'll understand.0 -
Somebody suggested earlier that the move to Remain was the result of private polling by financial institutions. They've swung back slightly which disproves that point. If Remain were confident, having been 20 points clear at one stage they'd be 1.10 on betfair. Its just trading and arbing now by shrewdies, punters and politicos are pinstickers, nothing more.0
-
I want as many people to vote as possible, but that's not really disenfranchisement is it? Except self disenfranchisementJobabob said:
0 -
To quote Spike Milligan :" Rhubarb"0
-
Nigel Farage and his motley crew don’t speak for everyone in the Leave campaign and I feel sorry for the good and decent and intelligent and downright nice people who are on that side of the dispute but who do not much care for Farage and his game. But these are the people you lie with and that, in the end, is a choice.
What’s more, it’s hard to disassociate yourselves from Farageist excess when the official campaign prattles on about how Turkey is going to be joining the EU. And, nudge-nudge, wink-wink, you know what that means, don’t you? Of course you do. There’s a spectrum and if Farage and Arron Banks are at one end of it, there are plenty of other, more ostensibly respectable, people who are closer to Farage than they are to the centre. That’s a choice too.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/every-political-generation-low-moment/0 -
Assume that was aimed at me. Thanks, Mr Dancer. So a completely new Remain attack, defence and goalie? From that I guess we can adduce that it wasn't just Ms Eagles who thought the first leg was a "f*cking disaster"?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Meek, Rudd also dropped.
It's Sadiq Khan, Frances O'Grady and Ruth Davidson[sp] for Remain.0 -
As long as Osborne is buried by midnight at a crossroads in a garlic field with with a silver stake in his weasel brain I don't really care :-)MarkHopkins said:
How many un-resignations will there be, by the end of Friday?Alanbrooke said:
Oh lets hope the both get out of bed crying.Pulpstar said:Whatever the result, we can take solace in the fact that there'll be tears before bedtime for either Farage or Osborne come Friday morning.
It would cheer us all up.0 -
I was fairly surprised they'd put it in even as an option. I'd expect the first option to be followed, but even that would be a welcome increase in flexibility. There's certainly no explicit proposal to do away with zero rating.Richard_Tyndall said:
The EU takes a percentage of all VAT receipts as part of its funding settlement. With the current and deepening funding crisis in the EU there is no way they are going to allow any reduction in the amount of money they get from this source. Certainly they cannot let member states set the minimum rates and exclusions.Andy_Cooke said:
Ironically, I read the document on the VAT proposal last night while discussing the EU with a friend online (I know, I'm a bit sad).PlatoSaid said:New Vote Leave poster playing Remain at their own game
New EU rules on tax could cost each household over £2,600 ─► https://t.co/sVfUAQi1bE
#VoteLeave https://t.co/LG33aHaHXU
It does strike me that it actually said nearly the opposite of what Vote Leave are claiming - that the EU propose making VAT exclusions and zero rating more flexible, and suggest either making it easier and swifter to update the list of exclusions and zero rating, or getting rid of the entire list and letting Member States largely do exclusions and zero ratings as they see fit.
To be fair, the earlier Remain bombshell had a large amount of bullshit in it (exaggeration of actual claims and taking worst cases, plus comparing between two alternative rates of increase), but this one is actually diametrically opposed to what it's based on.
Sadly, I'm confident very few will bother to check either.
Not to mention that doing so would send the vast majority of the increased tax revenues to the Government, allowing the Government to do whatever they wanted with it (cut the deficit, cut other taxes, increase public spending). That latter point, though, is well within the "standard" mendacity levels of both sides.0 -
Oh, it's Massie.Scott_P said:Nigel Farage and his motley crew don’t speak for everyone in the Leave campaign and I feel sorry for the good and decent and intelligent and downright nice people who are on that side of the dispute but who do not much care for Farage and his game. But these are the people you lie with and that, in the end, is a choice.
What’s more, it’s hard to disassociate yourselves from Farageist excess when the official campaign prattles on about how Turkey is going to be joining the EU. And, nudge-nudge, wink-wink, you know what that means, don’t you? Of course you do. There’s a spectrum and if Farage and Arron Banks are at one end of it, there are plenty of other, more ostensibly respectable, people who are closer to Farage than they are to the centre. That’s a choice too.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/every-political-generation-low-moment/0 -
So what ?Scott_P said:Nigel Farage and his motley crew don’t speak for everyone in the Leave campaign and I feel sorry for the good and decent and intelligent and downright nice people who are on that side of the dispute but who do not much care for Farage and his game. But these are the people you lie with and that, in the end, is a choice.
What’s more, it’s hard to disassociate yourselves from Farageist excess when the official campaign prattles on about how Turkey is going to be joining the EU. And, nudge-nudge, wink-wink, you know what that means, don’t you? Of course you do. There’s a spectrum and if Farage and Arron Banks are at one end of it, there are plenty of other, more ostensibly respectable, people who are closer to Farage than they are to the centre. That’s a choice too.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/every-political-generation-low-moment/
Theres a spectrum in Remain Jezza at one end and Dave at the other.
That really is a pointless post.0 -
That was a joke, calm down. What is wrong with the people on this site. Jheez.Jobabob said:
Nice to see that you are happy to see people being disenfranchised.nunu said:
Still, I suppose it's a step up from the other day when you were encouraging RochdalePioneers to miscount Remain votes in his role as an official counter.0 -
I'm bringing a tanker of holy water too, just in case.Alanbrooke said:
As long as Osborne is buried by midnight at a crossroads in a garlic field with with a silver stake in his weasel brain I don't really care :-)MarkHopkins said:
How many un-resignations will there be, by the end of Friday?Alanbrooke said:
Oh lets hope the both get out of bed crying.Pulpstar said:Whatever the result, we can take solace in the fact that there'll be tears before bedtime for either Farage or Osborne come Friday morning.
It would cheer us all up.
And another of sewage.....0 -
Why does a slight swing back disprove that point?blackburn63 said:Somebody suggested earlier that the move to Remain was the result of private polling by financial institutions. They've swung back slightly which disproves that point. If Remain were confident, having been 20 points clear at one stage they'd be 1.10 on betfair. Its just trading and arbing now by shrewdies, punters and politicos are pinstickers, nothing more.
0 -
Mr. Rising, it's the Cameron/Osborne line.
Nothing about the EU, just FarageFarageFarage.
Mr. Mark, not sure, it may've always been the plan for Remain to have a different team.
As I said earlier, they've got a London Labour mayor, a Scottish Conservative and a trades unionist. O'Grady, the latter, may be most important for trying to get non-London England on Remain's side.0 -
Donald Trump last matched for Republican nominee on Betfair at 1.19.0
-
Oh Scott. Pitiable. You'll never get them to give you a chair at this rate.Scott_P said:0 -
You think he should be shown mercy then?Alanbrooke said:
As long as Osborne is buried by midnight at a crossroads in a garlic field with with a silver stake in his weasel brain I don't really care :-)MarkHopkins said:
How many un-resignations will there be, by the end of Friday?Alanbrooke said:
Oh lets hope the both get out of bed crying.Pulpstar said:Whatever the result, we can take solace in the fact that there'll be tears before bedtime for either Farage or Osborne come Friday morning.
It would cheer us all up.0 -
D-Day - 4.nunu said:
That was a joke, calm down. What is wrong with the people on this site. Jheez.Jobabob said:
Nice to see that you are happy to see people being disenfranchised.nunu said:
Still, I suppose it's a step up from the other day when you were encouraging RochdalePioneers to miscount Remain votes in his role as an official counter.0 -
Leave.Eu should share their data with you. Labour In will be crucial for the GOTV remain as the CLP's are allowed to campaign.Sean_F said:
Not in Luton, but huge amounts of leafletting. We decided that the lack of historical canvassing data would have made it very difficult to do an effective canvass.NickPalmer said:Strange couple of threads - mass panic among Leavers for no obvious reason except the markets, and that could be profit-taking or false rumours or who knows what. The weekend polls did suggest that Remain was catching up, but overcoming the undoubtedly less favouralbe postasl votes must be a challenge.
I replied in the last thread about Remain GOTV work - lots in London, not sure about elsewhere. Is there a serious Leave GOTV operation?0 -
Whereas the Leave line has been Farage is nothing to do with us...Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Rising, it's the Cameron/Osborne line.
Nothing about the EU, just FarageFarageFarage.
https://twitter.com/gerryhassan/status/7431512196281835520 -
Ahem, just got a message from Mr. K. Any word on how long his ban is, whether it's temporary/permanent etc?
Edited extra bit: Mr. P, Farage is part of the broader (but not official) campaign.
Remain has terrorist sympathisers and Tony Blair. There's enough dodginess to spread around.0 -
In the best possible taste.Alanbrooke said:
As long as Osborne is buried by midnight at a crossroads in a garlic field with with a silver stake in his weasel brain I don't really care :-)MarkHopkins said:
How many un-resignations will there be, by the end of Friday?Alanbrooke said:
Oh lets hope the both get out of bed crying.Pulpstar said:Whatever the result, we can take solace in the fact that there'll be tears before bedtime for either Farage or Osborne come Friday morning.
It would cheer us all up.0 -
Brexit vote must not stop other EU states seeking further integration, says Moscovici
The European Commissioner Pierre Moscovici has said today that the Brexit referendum must not prevent other member states from pursuing further integration.
Speaking at a conference in Germany Mr Moscovici said: "A Brexit would be a loss for Britain and the EU. That's why I hope the British will vote to stay.
"I'm truly convinced, whatever happens on June 23, we have to be proactive.
"It must not prevent the others from going further... We must move on."0 -
chestnut said:
Brexit vote must not stop other EU states seeking further integration, says Moscovici
The European Commissioner Pierre Moscovici has said today that the Brexit referendum must not prevent other member states from pursuing further integration.
Speaking at a conference in Germany Mr Moscovici said: "A Brexit would be a loss for Britain and the EU. That's why I hope the British will vote to stay.
"I'm truly convinced, whatever happens on June 23, we have to be proactive.
"It must not prevent the others from going further... We must move on."
No matter what the people tell us ... we will not listen.
0 -
https://twitter.com/PoliticalAP/status/743076129356034048
Has to be done. For more...
https://twitter.com/politicalap0 -
If Scott and Paste can't be arsed to give so much as a couple of words on the link he's so kindly provided for us, why dignify it with any thoughts of your own?Alanbrooke said:
So what ?Scott_P said:Nigel Farage and his motley crew don’t speak for everyone in the Leave campaign and I feel sorry for the good and decent and intelligent and downright nice people who are on that side of the dispute but who do not much care for Farage and his game. But these are the people you lie with and that, in the end, is a choice.
What’s more, it’s hard to disassociate yourselves from Farageist excess when the official campaign prattles on about how Turkey is going to be joining the EU. And, nudge-nudge, wink-wink, you know what that means, don’t you? Of course you do. There’s a spectrum and if Farage and Arron Banks are at one end of it, there are plenty of other, more ostensibly respectable, people who are closer to Farage than they are to the centre. That’s a choice too.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/every-political-generation-low-moment/
Theres a spectrum in Remain Jezza at one end and Dave at the other.
That really is a pointless post.0 -
God, that was thought-provoking.Scott_P said:Nigel Farage and his motley crew don’t speak for everyone in the Leave campaign and I feel sorry for the good and decent and intelligent and downright nice people who are on that side of the dispute but who do not much care for Farage and his game. But these are the people you lie with and that, in the end, is a choice.
What’s more, it’s hard to disassociate yourselves from Farageist excess when the official campaign prattles on about how Turkey is going to be joining the EU. And, nudge-nudge, wink-wink, you know what that means, don’t you? Of course you do. There’s a spectrum and if Farage and Arron Banks are at one end of it, there are plenty of other, more ostensibly respectable, people who are closer to Farage than they are to the centre. That’s a choice too.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/every-political-generation-low-moment/
Previously I thought there was some sort of referendum going on, and I was meant to vote for the best option from a binary choice.
Now I learn that it is some kind of meta-election in which I am implicitly endorsing the vilest of whackjobs whose preference in this binary choice happens to match my own, even if their thought processes that led them to this conclusion were orthogonal to my own.
I've changed my mind now - much better to vote with the IRA lot. They've clearly got mine, and Britain's, best interests at heart.0
