A bit of hope for Leavers. Just spoke to a friend who has been canvassing one of the big post war working class estates in Croydon where it is more than 80 per cent Leave.
That would be either New Addington, Forestdale, Ashburton or Waddon.
Until about 25 years ago they were solidly white working class. They are now solidly multiethnic working class. That is not good news for Remain.
The anti-immigration immigrant/2nd gen immigrant is an interesting case study for the endless handwringing articles, post EUref.
My parents have friends who were immigrants from EU and non EU in the 1970s - both voting out.
This story is from a good few years ago. I suspect it is worse now. Family know some (black) Zimbabweans. Some of family saved for heaven knows how long to come over here on holiday to pay fare and visa.
Get to UK airport. Basically told you are lying and you are trying to immigrate here. Your on the next plane back. After intervention of UK based family they were allowed to stay for 48 hours.
-------------
Want to visit your cousin to be best man at his wedding and live in Sri lanka. Visa fee ~£100. Return flights from Colombo start from £363. And if they say F*** off then no refund of visa fee.
Want to visit your cousin and be best man at his wedding and live in Barbados, Same thing. By the way HM Queen is head of state there. We are part of the same goddam Kingdom.
So your weddings ruined, your cousins a couple of months pay out of pocket as the £100 fee isn't refunded.
Then just to cap it all you get a burst pipe and some Lithuanian who can hardly speak English turns up.
But being from the Commonwealth at least you get to vote in the EU referendum.
Then our politicians smugly take the ethnic vote for granted, because obviously brexiteers are waycist.
#ignorethepolls
As soon as you write waycist you undermine anything and everything you write. It's juvenile.
This is a betting site. Ignore it if you want and bet accordingly.
Most people on here know next to nothing about betting and post less.
Nigel Farage and his motley crew don’t speak for everyone in the Leave campaign and I feel sorry for the good and decent and intelligent and downright nice people who are on that side of the dispute but who do not much care for Farage and his game. But these are the people you lie with and that, in the end, is a choice.
What’s more, it’s hard to disassociate yourselves from Farageist excess when the official campaign prattles on about how Turkey is going to be joining the EU. And, nudge-nudge, wink-wink, you know what that means, don’t you? Of course you do. There’s a spectrum and if Farage and Arron Banks are at one end of it, there are plenty of other, more ostensibly respectable, people who are closer to Farage than they are to the centre. That’s a choice too.
Theres a spectrum in Remain Jezza at one end and Dave at the other.
That really is a pointless post.
Indeed. Absolute bollocks. If I believe something is right, I don't stop believing it to be right just because a jackass does also, and I have no remorse for holding that view because a jackass does.
Even the very worst people hold some true and even good values. It would be stupidity of the utmost degree for everyone else to eschew those good values because of a totally artificial and spurious 'association' of people holding that value with the evil person.
True. And especially in a referendum, when there is only one choice.
It is indeed a pretty shallow or even stupid form of reasoning, and only discredits those who seek to make it.
To those monstering Brexit it is always uncomfortable when you have to side with unpleasant allies. But it sometimes has to be done.
Should we have declared war on Russia to in 1941. After all Stalin had already put more innocent people to death than Hitler ever would.
We not only didnt declare war on Russia we armed and supported them.
Why, because that was in the national interest.
For anyone who abhors the idea of replacing representative democracy with a supranational oligarchy then the need for allies, even unpleasant ones is just as imperative as it was for Churchill. They can be faced down once the battle is one but for our childrens sake that battle must be won.
" I can't get upset over the tragic deaths of people I've never heard of. I can feel sorry for their friends and family."
Me neither, Miss P.. Perhaps it is my upbringing and work experience but I tend to think that there are about 600,000 deaths in the UK each year, each a tragedy for the family (though sometimes a relief as well). Of those there are about 50* unlawfully killings a month in England and Wales, everyone a tragedy for the families. I get about three emails a week telling me of people that worked for the same organisations that I did have shuffled off this mortal coil, and these days I go to a lot more funerals than weddings.
I cannot feel any emotion about the death of someone who I have never known, or even heard of. Why on earth should I?"
While flicking through the last thread I came over this. Plato and her chum Hurst Llama discussing why the death of young MP Jo Cox left them unmoved.
I remember after the death of Lee Rigby finding myself near a large parade where a military band which seemed to stretch forever were marching with banners with his picture held aloft. There were soldiers in the band crying as they marched past.
The crowds down either side were clapping. I don't know whether any of them had met him personally but it was really quite moving. It made you think that a young drummer just going about his business should be killed for no other reason than that he was a drummer in the British army.
I bet there wasn't a single old crow let alone two who even thought to THEMSELVES that it didn't bother them because he was just one of 600,000.
A cancelled meeting (well, there's a surprise) as most of the men want to leave early and make sure they are in good time for the football tonight.
Thumbing through some of the afternoon posts, I'm left with the view REMAIN are playing the psychological card at this late hour. Once again, the self-interested prophets of doom are out and about telling us how the world will end if we have the affront to vote LEAVE on Thursday.
Everything is now being done to de-motivate the LEAVE vote before Thursday whether it be more warnings of disaster or simply the sneering and jeering of those wedded to either the current leadership of the Conservative Party or wedded to the fear of an alternative leadership team ?
As I'm not a Conservative, I don't care. The Sun is shining and I'm voting LEAVE on Thursday.
As someone might have said "It's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's a new start for the UK....and we're feeling good".
Football tonight - depends which England turns up and to a large extent which Slovakia. hey could frustrate us out of this but an early England goal will calm nerves and force them to come to us. If we win Group B, we'll know our next opponents by the end of tomorrow and we play Saturday late afternoon. If we are runners up, we could have to play Portugal or perhaps Iceland but we wouldn't know that for some while and the game would be next Monday evening.
Why would they finish early to go watch a minor league game
Lady Bucket, Osborne's either lying or committing a massive dereliction of duty.
Someone else here said a day or two ago that Treasury civil servants had been instructed to leave it very late in the day to plan for potential exit, and were rather distressed about it as a result.
A cancelled meeting (well, there's a surprise) as most of the men want to leave early and make sure they are in good time for the football tonight.
Thumbing through some of the afternoon posts, I'm left with the view REMAIN are playing the psychological card at this late hour. Once again, the self-interested prophets of doom are out and about telling us how the world will end if we have the affront to vote LEAVE on Thursday.
Everything is now being done to de-motivate the LEAVE vote before Thursday whether it be more warnings of disaster or simply the sneering and jeering of those wedded to either the current leadership of the Conservative Party or wedded to the fear of an alternative leadership team ?
As I'm not a Conservative, I don't care. The Sun is shining and I'm voting LEAVE on Thursday.
As someone might have said "It's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's a new start for the UK....and we're feeling good".
Football tonight - depends which England turns up and to a large extent which Slovakia. hey could frustrate us out of this but an early England goal will calm nerves and force them to come to us. If we win Group B, we'll know our next opponents by the end of tomorrow and we play Saturday late afternoon. If we are runners up, we could have to play Portugal or perhaps Iceland but we wouldn't know that for some while and the game would be next Monday evening.
Why would they finish early to go watch a minor league game
A cancelled meeting (well, there's a surprise) as most of the men want to leave early and make sure they are in good time for the football tonight.
Thumbing through some of the afternoon posts, I'm left with the view REMAIN are playing the psychological card at this late hour. Once again, the self-interested prophets of doom are out and about telling us how the world will end if we have the affront to vote LEAVE on Thursday.
Everything is now being done to de-motivate the LEAVE vote before Thursday whether it be more warnings of disaster or simply the sneering and jeering of those wedded to either the current leadership of the Conservative Party or wedded to the fear of an alternative leadership team ?
As I'm not a Conservative, I don't care. The Sun is shining and I'm voting LEAVE on Thursday.
As someone might have said "It's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's a new start for the UK....and we're feeling good".
Football tonight - depends which England turns up and to a large extent which Slovakia. hey could frustrate us out of this but an early England goal will calm nerves and force them to come to us. If we win Group B, we'll know our next opponents by the end of tomorrow and we play Saturday late afternoon. If we are runners up, we could have to play Portugal or perhaps Iceland but we wouldn't know that for some while and the game would be next Monday evening.
Why would they finish early to go watch a minor league game
oh dear!
Bitterness from fans of teams that didnae qualify isn't really that attractive...!
Corbyn quite good tonight - he is doing himself no harm and I didn't think I would ever say that
If I had a choice between Corbyn or Osborne then Corbyn wouldnt be a difficult tick in the box. At least he has principles, even if I strongly disagree with a good few of them.
Corbyn quite good tonight - he is doing himself no harm and I didn't think I would ever say that
Game changer?
He is sincere and authentic and, in a sea of self-serving shapeshifters, stands out as a consequence.
It's the quality that got him elected leader in the first place.
He sincerely opposed membership of the EU until internal party management 'persuaded' him to become a Remainer. Funny how the usually vociferous Corbynistas on Twitter have been almost anonymous throughout this campaign.
Nigel Farage and his motley crew don’t speak for everyone in the Leave campaign and I feel sorry for the good and decent and intelligent and downright nice people who are on that side of the dispute but who do not much care for Farage and his game. But these are the people you lie with and that, in the end, is a choice.
What’s more, it’s hard to disassociate yourselves from Farageist excess when the official campaign prattles on about how Turkey is going to be joining the EU. And, nudge-nudge, wink-wink, you know what that means, don’t you? Of course you do. There’s a spectrum and if Farage and Arron Banks are at one end of it, there are plenty of other, more ostensibly respectable, people who are closer to Farage than they are to the centre. That’s a choice too.
Theres a spectrum in Remain Jezza at one end and Dave at the other.
That really is a pointless post.
Indeed. Absolute bollocks. If I believe something is right, I don't stop believing it to be right just because a jackass does also, and I have no remorse for holding that view because a jackass does.
Even the very worst people hold some true and even good values. It would be stupidity of the utmost degree for everyone else to eschew those good values because of a totally artificial and spurious 'association' of people holding that value with the evil person.
True. And especially in a referendum, when there is only one choice.
It is indeed a pretty shallow or even stupid form of reasoning, and only discredits those who seek to make it.
You're right, but for many people this is a borderline decision, and Farage and his interventions aren't going to help Leave.
Lady Bucket, Osborne's either lying or committing a massive dereliction of duty.
Someone else here said a day or two ago that Treasury civil servants had been instructed to leave it very late in the day to plan for potential exit, and were rather distressed about it as a result.
And it's utterly disingenuous. If it's up to 'vote leave' to say what should happen then they (Osborne and Cameron) are lying about remaining in government after a Brexit vote. If they are still in post (as they claim) then it will be their decision what happens on Friday and beyond.
A cancelled meeting (well, there's a surprise) as most of the men want to leave early and make sure they are in good time for the football tonight.
Thumbing through some of the afternoon posts, I'm left with the view REMAIN are playing the psychological card at this late hour. Once again, the self-interested prophets of doom are out and about telling us how the world will end if we have the affront to vote LEAVE on Thursday.
Everything is now being done to de-motivate the LEAVE vote before Thursday whether it be more warnings of disaster or simply the sneering and jeering of those wedded to either the current leadership of the Conservative Party or wedded to the fear of an alternative leadership team ?
As I'm not a Conservative, I don't care. The Sun is shining and I'm voting LEAVE on Thursday.
As someone might have said "It's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's a new start for the UK....and we're feeling good".
Football tonight - depends which England turns up and to a large extent which Slovakia. hey could frustrate us out of this but an early England goal will calm nerves and force them to come to us. If we win Group B, we'll know our next opponents by the end of tomorrow and we play Saturday late afternoon. If we are runners up, we could have to play Portugal or perhaps Iceland but we wouldn't know that for some while and the game would be next Monday evening.
Why would they finish early to go watch a minor league game
oh dear!
Bitterness from fans of teams that didnae qualify isn't really that attractive...!
Sad losers with no sense of humour deserve the shitty lives they obviously have
Lord Forsyth on BBC Scotland saying if we vote Leave, responsibility for farming & fishing policy will be immediately transferred to Holyrood on the 24th.
Corbyn quite good tonight - he is doing himself no harm and I didn't think I would ever say that
Game changer?
He is sincere and authentic and, in a sea of self-serving shapeshifters, stands out as a consequence.
It's the quality that got him elected leader in the first place.
He sincerely opposed membership of the EU until internal party management 'persuaded' him to become a Remainer. Funny how the usually vociferous Corbynistas on Twitter have been almost anonymous throughout this campaign.
Lord Forsyth on BBC Scotland saying if we vote Leave, responsibility for farming & fishing policy will be immediately transferred to Holyrood on the 24th.
Hmm..
Then straight on to un-elected Eurocrats.
Jim Sillars making the increased immigration argument for Brexit...
A cancelled meeting (well, there's a surprise) as most of the men want to leave early and make sure they are in good time for the football tonight.
Thumbing through some of the afternoon posts, I'm left with the view REMAIN are playing the psychological card at this late hour. Once again, the self-interested prophets of doom are out and about telling us how the world will end if we have the affront to vote LEAVE on Thursday.
Everything is now being done to de-motivate the LEAVE vote before Thursday whether it be more warnings of disaster or simply the sneering and jeering of those wedded to either the current leadership of the Conservative Party or wedded to the fear of an alternative leadership team ?
As I'm not a Conservative, I don't care. The Sun is shining and I'm voting LEAVE on Thursday.
As someone might have said "It's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's a new start for the UK....and we're feeling good".
Football tonight - depends which England turns up and to a large extent which Slovakia. hey could frustrate us out of this but an early England goal will calm nerves and force them to come to us. If we win Group B, we'll know our next opponents by the end of tomorrow and we play Saturday late afternoon. If we are runners up, we could have to play Portugal or perhaps Iceland but we wouldn't know that for some while and the game would be next Monday evening.
Why would they finish early to go watch a minor league game
oh dear!
Bitterness from fans of teams that didnae qualify isn't really that attractive...!
Sad losers with no sense of humour deserve the shitty lives they obviously have
Lord Forsyth on BBC Scotland saying if we vote Leave, responsibility for farming & fishing policy will be immediately transferred to Holyrood on the 24th.
Hmm..
Then straight on to un-elected Eurocrats.
Jim Sillars making the increased immigration argument for Brexit...
A cancelled meeting (well, there's a surprise) as most of the men want to leave early and make sure they are in good time for the football tonight.
Thumbing through some of the afternoon posts, I'm left with the view REMAIN are playing the psychological card at this late hour. Once again, the self-interested prophets of doom are out and about telling us how the world will end if we have the affront to vote LEAVE on Thursday.
Everything is now being done to de-motivate the LEAVE vote before Thursday whether it be more warnings of disaster or simply the sneering and jeering of those wedded to either the current leadership of the Conservative Party or wedded to the fear of an alternative leadership team ?
As I'm not a Conservative, I don't care. The Sun is shining and I'm voting LEAVE on Thursday.
As someone might have said "It's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's a new start for the UK....and we're feeling good".
Football tonight - depends which England turns up and to a large extent which Slovakia. hey could frustrate us out of this but an early England goal will calm nerves and force them to come to us. If we win Group B, we'll know our next opponents by the end of tomorrow and we play Saturday late afternoon. If we are runners up, we could have to play Portugal or perhaps Iceland but we wouldn't know that for some while and the game would be next Monday evening.
Why would they finish early to go watch a minor league game
oh dear!
Bitterness from fans of teams that didnae qualify isn't really that attractive...!
Sad losers with no sense of humour deserve the shitty lives they obviously have
Corbyn quite good tonight - he is doing himself no harm and I didn't think I would ever say that
Game changer?
He is sincere and authentic and, in a sea of self-serving shapeshifters, stands out as a consequence.
It's the quality that got him elected leader in the first place.
He sincerely opposed membership of the EU until internal party management 'persuaded' him to become a Remainer. Funny how the usually vociferous Corbynistas on Twitter have been almost anonymous throughout this campaign.
I think he believes in democracy and as the party agreed a policy of remain felt honour bound as leader to go along with it whatever his personal views
Corbyn quite good tonight - he is doing himself no harm and I didn't think I would ever say that
Game changer?
He is sincere and authentic and, in a sea of self-serving shapeshifters, stands out as a consequence.
It's the quality that got him elected leader in the first place.
He sincerely opposed membership of the EU until internal party management 'persuaded' him to become a Remainer. Funny how the usually vociferous Corbynistas on Twitter have been almost anonymous throughout this campaign.
But he was honest enough to still voice his concerns. Remain to reform it.
A cancelled meeting (well, there's a surprise) as most of the men want to leave early and make sure they are in good time for the football tonight.
Thumbing through some of the afternoon posts, I'm left with the view REMAIN are playing the psychological card at this late hour. Once again, the self-interested prophets of doom are out and about telling us how the world will end if we have the affront to vote LEAVE on Thursday.
Everything is now being done to de-motivate the LEAVE vote before Thursday whether it be more warnings of disaster or simply the sneering and jeering of those wedded to either the current leadership of the Conservative Party or wedded to the fear of an alternative leadership team ?
As I'm not a Conservative, I don't care. The Sun is shining and I'm voting LEAVE on Thursday.
As someone might have said "It's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's a new start for the UK....and we're feeling good".
Football tonight - depends which England turns up and to a large extent which Slovakia. hey could frustrate us out of this but an early England goal will calm nerves and force them to come to us. If we win Group B, we'll know our next opponents by the end of tomorrow and we play Saturday late afternoon. If we are runners up, we could have to play Portugal or perhaps Iceland but we wouldn't know that for some while and the game would be next Monday evening.
Why would they finish early to go watch a minor league game
oh dear!
Bitterness from fans of teams that didnae qualify isn't really that attractive...!
Sad losers with no sense of humour deserve the shitty lives they obviously have
Is that your excuse?
You prove my point , sad loser with no sense of humour. Why the inferiority complex.
A cancelled meeting (well, there's a surprise) as most of the men want to leave early and make sure they are in good time for the football tonight.
Thumbing through some of the afternoon posts, I'm left with the view REMAIN are playing the psychological card at this late hour. Once again, the self-interested prophets of doom are out and about telling us how the world will end if we have the affront to vote LEAVE on Thursday.
Everything is now being done to de-motivate the LEAVE vote before Thursday whether it be more warnings of disaster or simply the sneering and jeering of those wedded to either the current leadership of the Conservative Party or wedded to the fear of an alternative leadership team ?
As I'm not a Conservative, I don't care. The Sun is shining and I'm voting LEAVE on Thursday.
As someone might have said "It's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's a new start for the UK....and we're feeling good".
Football tonight - depends which England turns up and to a large extent which Slovakia. hey could frustrate us out of this but an early England goal will calm nerves and force them to come to us. If we win Group B, we'll know our next opponents by the end of tomorrow and we play Saturday late afternoon. If we are runners up, we could have to play Portugal or perhaps Iceland but we wouldn't know that for some while and the game would be next Monday evening.
Why would they finish early to go watch a minor league game
oh dear!
Bitterness from fans of teams that didnae qualify isn't really that attractive...!
Sad losers with no sense of humour deserve the shitty lives they obviously have
We see the EU, or the argument for it, as about being outward looking to the rest of the world. If you're optimistic about globalisation and the wider world it makes sense to be in the EU, so the theory goes and the argument from Remain. I'm not sure if that is really how it is seen on the continent. I suspect a lot of pro-EU feeling comes down to wanting to protect European civilisation in the modern world. How liberal are the rising powers like China, Russia and Brazil? The United States will always protect its own interests first. But no-one on the Remain side is prepared to sell the EU on this basis. The idea that as Europeans we need to stand together in a world full of wild west capitalism and authoritarian governments. But that wouldn't be PC would it?
Unless I'm very much mistaken, I would say that the anecdotal evidence offered on this site to date strongly favours LEAVE, paricularly with reference to large numbers of voters, eg the Nissan workforce vs a few dozen people in North London. But then again, these are random reports, completely unsubstatiated and unweighted and although interesting, have about the same value as yesterday's fish and chips wrapping.
@BBCPhilipSim: Jim Sillars says "the SNP does not have a mandate to hold indyref2", he says. Minority government, and didn't ask for mandate in manifesto.
@BBCPhilipSim: Mr Sillars: SNP doesn't have "moral authority" to ask for indyref2 now. Couldn't have mandate until 2020. Ms Cherry says he's "simply wrong"
A cancelled meeting (well, there's a surprise) as most of the men want to leave early and make sure they are in good time for the football tonight.
Thumbing through some of the afternoon posts, I'm left with the view REMAIN are playing the psychological card at this late hour. Once again, the self-interested prophets of doom are out and about telling us how the world will end if we have the affront to vote LEAVE on Thursday.
Everything is now being done to de-motivate the LEAVE vote before Thursday whether it be more warnings of disaster or simply the sneering and jeering of those wedded to either the current leadership of the Conservative Party or wedded to the fear of an alternative leadership team ?
As I'm not a Conservative, I don't care. The Sun is shining and I'm voting LEAVE on Thursday.
As someone might have said "It's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's a new start for the UK....and we're feeling good".
Football tonight - depends which England turns up and to a large extent which Slovakia. hey could frustrate us out of this but an early England goal will calm nerves and force them to come to us. If we win Group B, we'll know our next opponents by the end of tomorrow and we play Saturday late afternoon. If we are runners up, we could have to play Portugal or perhaps Iceland but we wouldn't know that for some while and the game would be next Monday evening.
Why would they finish early to go watch a minor league game
oh dear!
Bitterness from fans of teams that didnae qualify isn't really that attractive...!
Sad losers with no sense of humour deserve the shitty lives they obviously have
Is that your excuse?
You prove my point , sad loser with no sense of humour. Why the inferiority complex.
Unless I'm very much mistaken, I would say that the anecdotal evidence offered on this site to date strongly favours LEAVE, paricularly with reference to large numbers of voters, eg the Nissan workforce vs a few dozen people in North London. But then again, these are random reports, completely unsubstatiated and unweighted and although interesting, have about the same value as yesterday's fish and chips wrapping.
How many people on this site are 30s/40s with a couple of kids and a big mortgage? I imagine such factors play a huge amount in which way you will vote.
" I can't get upset over the tragic deaths of people I've never heard of. I can feel sorry for their friends and family."
Me neither, Miss P.. Perhaps it is my upbringing and work experience but I tend to think that there are about 600,000 deaths in the UK each year, each a tragedy for the family (though sometimes a relief as well). Of those there are about 50* unlawfully killings a month in England and Wales, everyone a tragedy for the families. I get about three emails a week telling me of people that worked for the same organisations that I did have shuffled off this mortal coil, and these days I go to a lot more funerals than weddings.
I cannot feel any emotion about the death of someone who I have never known, or even heard of. Why on earth should I?"
While flicking through the last thread I came over this. Plato and her chum Hurst Llama discussing why the death of young MP Jo Cox left them unmoved.
I remember after the death of Lee Rigby finding myself near a large parade where a military band which seemed to stretch forever were marching with banners with his picture held aloft. There were soldiers in the band crying as they marched past.
The crowds down either side were clapping. I don't know whether any of them had met him personally but it was really quite moving. It made you think that a young drummer just going about his business should be killed for no other reason than that he was a drummer in the British army.
I bet there wasn't a single old crow let alone two who even thought to THEMSELVES that it didn't bother them because he was just one of 600,000.
Sorry, Roger, as was also said one can feel sorry for their families, but cry about the death of someone I didn't know and never heard of - nah. I have buried my parents and my sister and too many real friends, I know grief. I can't feel it for a total stranger. Maybe you can, in which case good luck to you.
@PeterMannionMP: Free tip for Vote Leave. Seeking to label others' actions 'morally unacceptable'? Get someone (anyone) other than Liam Fox to do it. #Remain
A bit of hope for Leavers. Just spoke to a friend who has been canvassing one of the big post war working class estates in Croydon where it is more than 80 per cent Leave.
That would be either New Addington, Forestdale, Ashburton or Waddon.
Until about 25 years ago they were solidly white working class. They are now solidly multiethnic working class. That is not good news for Remain.
The anti-immigration immigrant/2nd gen immigrant is an interesting case study for the endless handwringing articles, post EUref.
My parents have friends who were immigrants from EU and non EU in the 1970s - both voting out.
This story is from a good few years ago. I suspect it is worse now. Family know some (black) Zimbabweans. Some of family saved for heaven knows how long to come over here on holiday to pay fare and visa.
Get to UK airport. Basically told you are lying and you are trying to immigrate here. Your on the next plane back. After intervention of UK based family they were allowed to stay for 48 hours.
-------------
Want to visit your cousin to be best man at his wedding and live in Sri lanka. Visa fee ~£100. Return flights from Colombo start from £363. And if they say F*** off then no refund of visa fee.
Want to visit your cousin and be best man at his wedding and live in Barbados, Same thing. By the way HM Queen is head of state there. We are part of the same goddam Kingdom.
So your weddings ruined, your cousins a couple of months pay out of pocket as the £100 fee isn't refunded.
Then just to cap it all you get a burst pipe and some Lithuanian who can hardly speak English turns up.
But being from the Commonwealth at least you get to vote in the EU referendum.
Then our politicians smugly take the ethnic vote for granted, because obviously brexiteers are waycist.
#ignorethepolls
As soon as you write waycist you undermine anything and everything you write. It's juvenile.
So are the SJW types who used whined cries of "waycist" to try to shut down arguments.
It doesn't work any more.
And nor should it. However an element of Leaves support is based on what can at best be described as xenophobia. Giggling as you write "waycist" doesn't make it acceptable.
No, just makes it annoying in a 'Nah, Nah, Na, Na, Nah' sort of way.
Unless I'm very much mistaken, I would say that the anecdotal evidence offered on this site to date strongly favours LEAVE, paricularly with reference to large numbers of voters, eg the Nissan workforce vs a few dozen people in North London. But then again, these are random reports, completely unsubstatiated and unweighted and although interesting, have about the same value as yesterday's fish and chips wrapping.
The problem is that the opinion polls are, other than as a guide to trend changes also no better than fish and chip wrapping because they have no reference point to base them on.
Anecdotes at least give a hint of that reference point.
Unless I'm very much mistaken, I would say that the anecdotal evidence offered on this site to date strongly favours LEAVE, paricularly with reference to large numbers of voters, eg the Nissan workforce vs a few dozen people in North London. But then again, these are random reports, completely unsubstatiated and unweighted and although interesting, have about the same value as yesterday's fish and chips wrapping.
While I agree with you some anecdotes are quite amusing. While putting uo a Vote Leave placard recently a group of returning local female walkers of admittedly mature years asked if more of them were available to put up on their houses nearby. I handed them some and they trounced off down the pavement during which time they must have received approximately a dozen beeps of support from drivers on the main road as they flashed them above their heads.
Corbyn quite good tonight - he is doing himself no harm and I didn't think I would ever say that
Game changer?
He is sincere and authentic and, in a sea of self-serving shapeshifters, stands out as a consequence.
It's the quality that got him elected leader in the first place.
He sincerely opposed membership of the EU until internal party management 'persuaded' him to become a Remainer. Funny how the usually vociferous Corbynistas on Twitter have been almost anonymous throughout this campaign.
He'll be with Brexit where it really counts... In the Polling Booth!
And, in a post REMAIN world they'll be less of a risk of "integration" under him than there would be the Tories.
Could you ever see Jezza signing up to the Euro? Unlike Cameron and Osborne who'd sell their granny's if they thought they could get away with ditching the Pound.
A stunningly brilliant piece of writing from Brendan O'Neill on remain's prejudices
Forgive me for being prejudiced. But "A stunningly brilliant piece of writing from Brendan O'Neill" is a phrase I believe is highly unlikely to be true.
Unless I'm very much mistaken, I would say that the anecdotal evidence offered on this site to date strongly favours LEAVE, paricularly with reference to large numbers of voters, eg the Nissan workforce vs a few dozen people in North London. But then again, these are random reports, completely unsubstatiated and unweighted and although interesting, have about the same value as yesterday's fish and chips wrapping.
Most of the anecdotes come from active campaigners for LEAVE, experiencing the natural politeness of the great English public; almost all come from their sympathisers.
Remain should hope no waverers are currently watching C5. A programme about EU migrants sending benefits back to their home country and one guy using it to build a house.
Unless I'm very much mistaken, I would say that the anecdotal evidence offered on this site to date strongly favours LEAVE, paricularly with reference to large numbers of voters, eg the Nissan workforce vs a few dozen people in North London. But then again, these are random reports, completely unsubstatiated and unweighted and although interesting, have about the same value as yesterday's fish and chips wrapping.
Most of the anecdotes come from active campaigners for LEAVE, experiencing the natural politeness of the great English public; almost all come from their sympathisers.
If the anecdotal evidence from here is a quarter way accurate Remain will do well to poll in the high teens.....
Unless I'm very much mistaken, I would say that the anecdotal evidence offered on this site to date strongly favours LEAVE, paricularly with reference to large numbers of voters, eg the Nissan workforce vs a few dozen people in North London. But then again, these are random reports, completely unsubstatiated and unweighted and although interesting, have about the same value as yesterday's fish and chips wrapping.
While I agree with you some anecdotes are quite amusing. While putting uo a Vote Leave placard recently a group of returning local female walkers of admittedly mature years asked if more of them were available to put up on their houses nearby. I handed them some and they trounced off down the pavement during which time they must have received approximately a dozen beeps of support from drivers on the main road as they flashed them above their heads.
I assume you meant it was the placards they were flashing?
Unless I'm very much mistaken, I would say that the anecdotal evidence offered on this site to date strongly favours LEAVE, paricularly with reference to large numbers of voters, eg the Nissan workforce vs a few dozen people in North London. But then again, these are random reports, completely unsubstatiated and unweighted and although interesting, have about the same value as yesterday's fish and chips wrapping.
The problem is that the opinion polls are, other than as a guide to trend changes also no better than fish and chip wrapping because they have no reference point to base them on.
Anecdotes at least give a hint of that reference point.
The problem with the anecdotes is that we tend to get "Brexit is doing great" from Brexit supporters on here, and vice-versa.
DC's clause on the meaning of 'Ever Closer Union' is perhaps the most important part of his deal, because it is a strong marker. Yes, I expect there to be bumps in the writing of this into EU treaties, but as an acknowledgement of reality, I don't expect it ultimately to be struck down and I do expect it to have significant bearing on the future development of the EU.
As for the inner core, if they want an army, let 'em.
In Mr Paxman's recent EU doccy, the House of Commons Library told him that 59% of UK laws in 2010-2013 came from the EU. That's plenty close enough already.
Remain should hope no waverers are currently watching C5. A programme about EU migrants sending benefits back to their home country and one guy using it to build a house.
Yes the staunchest Remain voter is a young middle class LD voting graduate who lives in London and likes to travel and reads the Guardian.
The staunchest Leave voter is a working class UKIP voting pensioner who left school at 16 and lives in the East of England and rarely goes abroad and reads the Sun
I can't talk about remain voters but I am as staunch a Leaver as you can get.
I have two degrees plus post graduate qualifications, live in the South East, have travelled widely (including periods of living in Portugal, The Middle East and the Caribbean) and have not even looked at the Sun newspaper for donkeys' years.
Why do some people insist on trying to pigeon-hole others? The degree of stereotyping, which applied in other circumstances would be seen as objectionable if not downright illegal, that we see on this site is really starting to get up my nose.
Unless I'm very much mistaken, I would say that the anecdotal evidence offered on this site to date strongly favours LEAVE, paricularly with reference to large numbers of voters, eg the Nissan workforce vs a few dozen people in North London. But then again, these are random reports, completely unsubstatiated and unweighted and although interesting, have about the same value as yesterday's fish and chips wrapping.
How many people on this site are 30s/40s with a couple of kids and a big mortgage? I imagine such factors play a huge amount in which way you will vote.
I started late so I am 50 with 2 kids at school and a big mortgage.
" I can't get upset over the tragic deaths of people I've never heard of. I can feel sorry for their friends and family."
Me neither, Miss P.. Perhaps it is my upbringing and work experience but I tend to think that there are about 600,000 deaths in the UK each year, each a tragedy for the family (though sometimes a relief as well). Of those there are about 50* unlawfully killings a month in England and Wales, everyone a tragedy for the families. I get about three emails a week telling me of people that worked for the same organisations that I did have shuffled off this mortal coil, and these days I go to a lot more funerals than weddings.
I cannot feel any emotion about the death of someone who I have never known, or even heard of. Why on earth should I?"
While flicking through the last thread I came over this. Plato and her chum Hurst Llama discussing why the death of young MP Jo Cox left them unmoved.
I remember after the death of Lee Rigby finding myself near a large parade where a military band which seemed to stretch forever were marching with banners with his picture held aloft. There were soldiers in the band crying as they marched past.
The crowds down either side were clapping. I don't know whether any of them had met him personally but it was really quite moving. It made you think that a young drummer just going about his business should be killed for no other reason than that he was a drummer in the British army.
I bet there wasn't a single old crow let alone two who even thought to THEMSELVES that it didn't bother them because he was just one of 600,000.
Sorry, Roger, as was also said one can feel sorry for their families, but cry about the death of someone I didn't know and never heard of - nah. I have buried my parents and my sister and too many real friends, I know grief. I can't feel it for a total stranger. Maybe you can, in which case good luck to you.
I, like many of us, have also known real grief - in my case the the death at a young age of my wife as well as that of a number of close friends over the years. Nevertheless, that doesn't prevent me from shedding a tear or two over a stranger when I hear of a particularly tragic story. Actually, I'd say that my own losses have probably made me better able to appreciate the pain that those involved are going through.
DC's clause on the meaning of 'Ever Closer Union' is perhaps the most important part of his deal, because it is a strong marker. Yes, I expect there to be bumps in the writing of this into EU treaties, but as an acknowledgement of reality, I don't expect it ultimately to be struck down and I do expect it to have significant bearing on the future development of the EU.
As for the inner core, if they want an army, let 'em.
In Mr Paxman's recent EU doccy, the House of Commons Library told him that 59% of UK laws in 2010-2013 came from the EU. That's plenty close enough already.
[Serious question]
How do you measure laws? By numbers of acts of parliament? By word count? By number of articles?
I ask this because if you look through the list of Acts of Parliament 2015 (here), you see remarkably few that appear EU inspired. There is the "European Union (Approvals) Act 2015", but most seem to be unremarkable and certainly not inspired by the EU.
DC's clause on the meaning of 'Ever Closer Union' is perhaps the most important part of his deal, because it is a strong marker. Yes, I expect there to be bumps in the writing of this into EU treaties, but as an acknowledgement of reality, I don't expect it ultimately to be struck down and I do expect it to have significant bearing on the future development of the EU.
As for the inner core, if they want an army, let 'em.
In Mr Paxman's recent EU doccy, the House of Commons Library told him that 59% of UK laws in 2010-2013 came from the EU. That's plenty close enough already.
[Serious question]
How do you measure laws? By numbers of acts of parliament? By word count? By number of articles?
I ask this because if you look through the list of Acts of Parliament 2015 (here), you see remarkably few that appear EU inspired. There is the "European Union (Approvals) Act 2015", but most seem to be unremarkable and certainly not inspired by the EU.
Remain should hope no waverers are currently watching C5. A programme about EU migrants sending benefits back to their home country and one guy using it to build a house.
Is he using English builders and plumbers to do it?
Yes the staunchest Remain voter is a young middle class LD voting graduate who lives in London and likes to travel and reads the Guardian.
The staunchest Leave voter is a working class UKIP voting pensioner who left school at 16 and lives in the East of England and rarely goes abroad and reads the Sun
I can't talk about remain voters but I am as staunch a Leaver as you can get.
I have two degrees plus post graduate qualifications, live in the South East, have travelled widely (including periods of living in Portugal, The Middle East and the Caribbean) and have not even looked at the Sun newspaper for donkeys' years.
Why do some people insist on trying to pigeon-hole others? The degree of stereotyping, which applied in other circumstances would be seen as objectionable if not downright illegal, that we see on this site is really starting to get up my nose.
I am sure there are some working class pensioners who live in a coastal town and will be voting Remain too, there are exceptions for every rule but by looking at the polling data which is the subject of this thread you can determine which way a voter is more likely to vote based on their socio-economic characteristics
" I can't get upset over the tragic deaths of people I've never heard of. I can feel sorry for their friends and family."
Me neither, Miss P.. Perhaps it is my upbringing and work experience but I tend to think that there are about 600,000 deaths in the UK each year, each a tragedy for the family (though sometimes a relief as well). Of those there are about 50* unlawfully killings a month in England and Wales, everyone a tragedy for the families. I get about three emails a week telling me of people that worked for the same organisations that I did have shuffled off this mortal coil, and these days I go to a lot more funerals than weddings.
I cannot feel any emotion about the death of someone who I have never known, or even heard of. Why on earth should I?"
While flicking through the last thread I came over this. Plato and her chum Hurst Llama discussing why the death of young MP Jo Cox left them unmoved.
I remember after the death of Lee Rigby finding myself near a large parade where a military band which seemed to stretch forever were marching with banners with his picture held aloft. There were soldiers in the band crying as they marched past.
The crowds down either side were clapping. I don't know whether any of them had met him personally but it was really quite moving. It made you think that a young drummer just going about his business should be killed for no other reason than that he was a drummer in the British army.
I bet there wasn't a single old crow let alone two who even thought to THEMSELVES that it didn't bother them because he was just one of 600,000.
Sorry, Roger, as was also said one can feel sorry for their families, but cry about the death of someone I didn't know and never heard of - nah. I have buried my parents and my sister and too many real friends, I know grief. I can't feel it for a total stranger. Maybe you can, in which case good luck to you.
I, like many of us, have also known real grief - in my case the the death at a young age of my wife as well as that of a number of close friends over the years. Nevertheless, that doesn't prevent me from shedding a tear or two over a stranger when I hear of a particularly tragic story. Actually, I'd say that my own losses have probably made me more able to appreciate what those involved are going through.
That is what makes us human. I am really touched by you recounting your personal experience about the premature death of your young wife. That has really quite moved me.
FWIW someone called IBRiS has released polling for Sunday and today showing Remain 47.4%, Leave 44.5%.
Well that is clear nonsense. They know so little that they are quoting the results to 3 significant figures.
Epic Maths Fail.
Agree. I absolutely hate polling that isn't rounded.
It would be okay, if an error was given , i.e. 47.4±2.3.
I agree polls should certainly give an error. It is basic GCSE science that all measurements should come with an error.
But, I think your example is not OK, because it implies that the 1 sigma error is known to 1 dp.
Instead of Remain 47.4%, Leave 44.5%, I think IBRIS should have reported something like Remain 47±3 %, Leave 45±3 %. (If you believe, optimistically, the error is about 3 % )
However, if IBRIS can't get basic stuff right, they won't have got complicated stuff right, so their poll is probably worthless.
Moves in the financial and betting markets would appear to indicate this is squeaky bum time for the leave campaign, particularly Farage’s provisional wing of it. Is Nigel going rogue? Ancient referendum campaigning law declares that if you can’t spot the liability at the table, then it’s you. Farage has spent significant portions of the past 24 hours denying he is a liability – “I wouldn’t have thought so, would you?” he wondered of the BBC – and attempting to cast his allies in the official leave campaign as more unpleasant than himself.
“Michael Gove had better look at his own posters.” Boris Johnson’s plan for a migrant amnesty for those in the country for more than 12 years was “a strange thing to say”. Never mind getting his country back: you get the feeling Nigel would currently settle for getting his campaign back.
“I still think we’re going to win,” he declared on Today, sounding distinctly like someone whose certainties in this regard have a half-life slightly shorter than some of the more violently unstable radioisotopes. Even homophones have it in for him. As he insisted on LBC: “Nothing I said has been inciteful.” Nigel increasingly seems out-strategised by his own metaphors. Asked again to paint a picture of post-Brexit politics, he said of Ukip: “We effectively will be like the canaries in the mineshaft.” Does Nigel know what happens to canaries in this line of work? Perhaps someone needs to break it to him: they don’t go to live on a farm.
DC's clause on the meaning of 'Ever Closer Union' is perhaps the most important part of his deal, because it is a strong marker. Yes, I expect there to be bumps in the writing of this into EU treaties, but as an acknowledgement of reality, I don't expect it ultimately to be struck down and I do expect it to have significant bearing on the future development of the EU.
As for the inner core, if they want an army, let 'em.
In Mr Paxman's recent EU doccy, the House of Commons Library told him that 59% of UK laws in 2010-2013 came from the EU. That's plenty close enough already.
[Serious question]
How do you measure laws? By numbers of acts of parliament? By word count? By number of articles?
I ask this because if you look through the list of Acts of Parliament 2015 (here), you see remarkably few that appear EU inspired. There is the "European Union (Approvals) Act 2015", but most seem to be unremarkable and certainly not inspired by the EU.
A 2010 HoC library publication threw around several numbers. On p.16 it says
"..We estimate that around 50 per cent of UK legislation with a significant economic impact has its origins in EU legislation. OECD analysis of regulation in Europe yields similar results. In 2002, they estimated that 40 per cent of all new UK regulations with a significant impact on business were derived from Community legislation. Despite reports that 80 per cent of German regulation emanates from the EU, the German Government estimates that the proportion is about 50 per cent"
" I can't get upset over the tragic deaths of people I've never heard of. I can feel sorry for their friends and family."
Me neither, Miss P.. Perhaps it is my upbringing and work experience but I tend to think that there are about 600,000 deaths in the UK each year, each a tragedy for the family (though sometimes a relief as well). Of those there are about 50* unlawfully killings a month in England and Wales, everyone a tragedy for the families. I get about three emails a week telling me of people that worked for the same organisations that I did have shuffled off this mortal coil, and these days I go to a lot more funerals than weddings.
I cannot feel any emotion about the death of someone who I have never known, or even heard of. Why on earth should I?"
While flicking through the last thread I came over this. Plato and her chum Hurst Llama discussing why the death of young MP Jo Cox left them unmoved.
I remember after the death of Lee Rigby finding myself near a large parade where a military band which seemed to stretch forever were marching with banners with his picture held aloft. There were soldiers in the band crying as they marched past.
The crowds down either side were clapping. I don't know whether any of them had met him personally but it was really quite moving. It made you think that a young drummer just going about his business should be killed for no other reason than that he was a drummer in the British army.
I bet there wasn't a single old crow let alone two who even thought to THEMSELVES that it didn't bother them because he was just one of 600,000.
Sorry, Roger, as was also said one can feel sorry for their families, but cry about the death of someone I didn't know and never heard of - nah. I have buried my parents and my sister and too many real friends, I know grief. I can't feel it for a total stranger. Maybe you can, in which case good luck to you.
I, like many of us, have also known real grief - in my case the the death at a young age of my wife as well as that of a number of close friends over the years. Nevertheless, that doesn't prevent me from shedding a tear or two over a stranger when I hear of a particularly tragic story. Actually, I'd say that my own losses have probably made me better able to appreciate the pain that those involved are going through.
I agree with the last sentence. That is the ability to empathise not a requirement to feel grief.
From Wiki ... "Student Grant is a cartoon strip created by Simon Thorp for the British comic Viz.[1] Grant first appeared in 1992 and became popular, featuring regularly for the rest of the decade.
The character is a University student named Grant Wankshaft, attending the fictional Spunkbridge University, one of the former polytechnics which became universities in 1992. Grant is pretentious, lazy,[2] smug and conceited, and peppers his speech with the word "actually".[3].
Grant vainly thinks of himself as a world-wise liberal intellectual, but is frequently shown as bigoted, not especially bright, and reliant on his parents for support, with little idea about the world outside of campus. He has a number of friends just like him, They are opinionated and talk loudly and ignorantly about various subjects.
Several of Grant's collegiate friends have bizarre speech impediments, dental deformities or both."
(my addition .. they often accuse everyone else of being "wacist").
"Grant likes to think of himself as in touch with the working classes but is utterly middle class and possesses a latent contempt for non-students in general, regarding himself and his friends as their superiors. This has resulted in a number of savage beatings over the years."
Unless I'm very much mistaken, I would say that the anecdotal evidence offered on this site to date strongly favours LEAVE, paricularly with reference to large numbers of voters, eg the Nissan workforce vs a few dozen people in North London. But then again, these are random reports, completely unsubstatiated and unweighted and although interesting, have about the same value as yesterday's fish and chips wrapping.
Most of the anecdotes come from active campaigners for LEAVE, experiencing the natural politeness of the great English public; almost all come from their sympathisers.
If the anecdotal evidence from here is a quarter way accurate Remain will do well to poll in the high teens.....
Wouldn't that be nice? A clear decisive result?
Isn't going to happen but I would laugh... and laugh and laugh
My anecdotal evidence is mixed and I would expect Mid Sussex to be somewhere around 50/50.
FWIW someone called IBRiS has released polling for Sunday and today showing Remain 47.4%, Leave 44.5%.
Well that is clear nonsense. They know so little that they are quoting the results to 3 significant figures.
Epic Maths Fail.
Agree. I absolutely hate polling that isn't rounded.
It would be okay, if an error was given , i.e. 47.4±2.3.
I agree polls should certainly give an error. It is basic GCSE science that all measurements should come with an error.
But, I think your example is not OK, because it implies that the 1 sigma error is known to 1 dp.
Instead of Remain 47.4%, Leave 44.5%, I think IBRIS should have reported something like Remain 47±3 %, Leave 45±3 %. (If you believe, optimistically, the error is about 3 % )
However, if IBRIS can't get basic stuff right, they won't have got complicated stuff right, so their poll is probably worthless.
No no no no no
An error margin is fine, as long as it does actually measure the error. And the error bar on a typical poll is much much bigger than the sampling error alone.
Comments
It is indeed a pretty shallow or even stupid form of reasoning, and only discredits those who seek to make it.
Says it is up to the Leave campaign to come up with a plan.
Should we have declared war on Russia to in 1941. After all Stalin had already put more innocent people to death than Hitler ever would.
We not only didnt declare war on Russia we armed and supported them.
Why, because that was in the national interest.
For anyone who abhors the idea of replacing representative democracy with a supranational oligarchy then the need for allies, even unpleasant ones is just as imperative as it was for Churchill. They can be faced down once the battle is one but for our childrens sake that battle must be won.
Me neither, Miss P.. Perhaps it is my upbringing and work experience but I tend to think that there are about 600,000 deaths in the UK each year, each a tragedy for the family (though sometimes a relief as well). Of those there are about 50* unlawfully killings a month in England and Wales, everyone a tragedy for the families. I get about three emails a week telling me of people that worked for the same organisations that I did have shuffled off this mortal coil, and these days I go to a lot more funerals than weddings.
I cannot feel any emotion about the death of someone who I have never known, or even heard of. Why on earth should I?"
While flicking through the last thread I came over this. Plato and her chum Hurst Llama discussing why the death of young MP Jo Cox left them unmoved.
I remember after the death of Lee Rigby finding myself near a large parade where a military band which seemed to stretch forever were marching with banners with his picture held aloft. There were soldiers in the band crying as they marched past.
The crowds down either side were clapping. I don't know whether any of them had met him personally but it was really quite moving. It made you think that a young drummer just going about his business should be killed for no other reason than that he was a drummer in the British army.
I bet there wasn't a single old crow let alone two who even thought to THEMSELVES that it didn't bother them because he was just one of 600,000.
It's the quality that got him elected leader in the first place.
Someone else here said a day or two ago that Treasury civil servants had been instructed to leave it very late in the day to plan for potential exit, and were rather distressed about it as a result.
Hmm..
Then straight on to un-elected Eurocrats.
https://next.ft.com/content/8278467a-34a5-11e6-bda0-04585c31b153
I think he indirectly highlights one of Remain's weaknesses though. Political correctness. One of the fundamental differences in how we see the EU
PS: How can they wear those dire tops. Whoever thought they were a good idea should be sacked.
It's a pipe-dream, but still a view.
We see the EU, or the argument for it, as about being outward looking to the rest of the world. If you're optimistic about globalisation and the wider world it makes sense to be in the EU, so the theory goes and the argument from Remain. I'm not sure if that is really how it is seen on the continent. I suspect a lot of pro-EU feeling comes down to wanting to protect European civilisation in the modern world. How liberal are the rising powers like China, Russia and Brazil? The United States will always protect its own interests first. But no-one on the Remain side is prepared to sell the EU on this basis. The idea that as Europeans we need to stand together in a world full of wild west capitalism and authoritarian governments. But that wouldn't be PC would it?
But then again, these are random reports, completely unsubstatiated and unweighted and although interesting, have about the same value as yesterday's fish and chips wrapping.
Epic Maths Fail.
@BBCPhilipSim: Jim Sillars says "the SNP does not have a mandate to hold indyref2", he says. Minority government, and didn't ask for mandate in manifesto.
Anecdotes at least give a hint of that reference point.
And, in a post REMAIN world they'll be less of a risk of "integration" under him than there would be the Tories.
Could you ever see Jezza signing up to the Euro? Unlike Cameron and Osborne who'd sell their granny's if they thought they could get away with ditching the Pound.
I have two degrees plus post graduate qualifications, live in the South East, have travelled widely (including periods of living in Portugal, The Middle East and the Caribbean) and have not even looked at the Sun newspaper for donkeys' years.
Why do some people insist on trying to pigeon-hole others? The degree of stereotyping, which applied in other circumstances would be seen as objectionable if not downright illegal, that we see on this site is really starting to get up my nose.
How do you measure laws? By numbers of acts of parliament? By word count? By number of articles?
I ask this because if you look through the list of Acts of Parliament 2015 (here), you see remarkably few that appear EU inspired. There is the "European Union (Approvals) Act 2015", but most seem to be unremarkable and certainly not inspired by the EU.
Finally the referendum has arrived.
But, I think your example is not OK, because it implies that the 1 sigma error is known to 1 dp.
Instead of Remain 47.4%, Leave 44.5%, I think IBRIS should have reported something like Remain 47±3 %, Leave 45±3 %. (If you believe, optimistically, the error is about 3 % )
However, if IBRIS can't get basic stuff right, they won't have got complicated stuff right, so their poll is probably worthless.
“Michael Gove had better look at his own posters.” Boris Johnson’s plan for a migrant amnesty for those in the country for more than 12 years was “a strange thing to say”. Never mind getting his country back: you get the feeling Nigel would currently settle for getting his campaign back.
“I still think we’re going to win,” he declared on Today, sounding distinctly like someone whose certainties in this regard have a half-life slightly shorter than some of the more violently unstable radioisotopes. Even homophones have it in for him. As he insisted on LBC: “Nothing I said has been inciteful.” Nigel increasingly seems out-strategised by his own metaphors. Asked again to paint a picture of post-Brexit politics, he said of Ukip: “We effectively will be like the canaries in the mineshaft.” Does Nigel know what happens to canaries in this line of work? Perhaps someone needs to break it to him: they don’t go to live on a farm.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/20/farage-dons-the-tinfoil-as-his-brex-appeal-begins-to-falter
Paxman quote is 5m into the video linked to below.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/brexit-facts-not-fear/
A 2010 HoC library publication threw around several numbers. On p.16 it says
"..We estimate that around 50 per cent of UK legislation with a significant economic impact has its origins in EU legislation. OECD analysis of regulation in Europe yields similar results. In 2002, they estimated that 40 per cent of all new UK regulations with a significant impact on business were derived from Community legislation. Despite reports that 80 per cent of German regulation emanates from the EU, the German Government estimates that the proportion is about 50 per cent"
http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/RP10-62
From Wiki ... "Student Grant is a cartoon strip created by Simon Thorp for the British comic Viz.[1] Grant first appeared in 1992 and became popular, featuring regularly for the rest of the decade.
The character is a University student named Grant Wankshaft, attending the fictional Spunkbridge University, one of the former polytechnics which became universities in 1992. Grant is pretentious, lazy,[2] smug and conceited, and peppers his speech with the word "actually".[3].
Grant vainly thinks of himself as a world-wise liberal intellectual, but is frequently shown as bigoted, not especially bright, and reliant on his parents for support, with little idea about the world outside of campus. He has a number of friends just like him, They are opinionated and talk loudly and ignorantly about various subjects.
Several of Grant's collegiate friends have bizarre speech impediments, dental deformities or both."
(my addition .. they often accuse everyone else of being "wacist").
"Grant likes to think of himself as in touch with the working classes but is utterly middle class and possesses a latent contempt for non-students in general, regarding himself and his friends as their superiors. This has resulted in a number of savage beatings over the years."
Isn't going to happen but I would laugh... and laugh and laugh
My anecdotal evidence is mixed and I would expect Mid Sussex to be somewhere around 50/50.
http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/east_anglia_will_vote_for_brexit_our_latest_survey_shows_1_4583840
An error margin is fine, as long as it does actually measure the error. And the error bar on a typical poll is much much bigger than the sampling error alone.