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Comments
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Good article Mr Meeks, the pollsters have a lot to prove, before they can redeem themselves.
I won’t be holding my breath however,
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In a way I do admire the chutzpah of rebutting accusations of antisemitism with "it's a Jewish conspiracy".0
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FPT
Alistair said:
» show previous quotes
No.
There are two options for what he is saying. The first is tautologically pointless. No one is blaming invisible pixies for the people being crushed to death. No insight is gained from saying it was crowd members that crushed other crowd members. We know that. It is a vacuous, pseudo-intellectual statement at best.
The other option is that it is victim blaming because quite surely some of those who were crushed so hard that their rib cages collapsed were also pressing against other who had the same happen to them either before or after they died. And this happened whilst people only feet away had no idea it was occurring. In crush and pre-crush situations people can take locally optimal, even logical, decisions for themselves that are devastating for the crowd as a whole. Not one person in that crowd thought "I know, I'll push this person so hard they won't be able to breather"
The whole notion of "not pushing" is based on some utopian vision of crowds
People are also completely ignoring that the reason why there was such a rush
Look, here's the report on the Love Parade crowd disaster to get this clear of football fans.
http://epjdatascience.springeropen.com/articles/10.1140/epjds7
Here's the key lines
"As was pointed out in Sec. 2.3, when the crowd was trapped in a situation of extreme density, it did not have a chance to get an overview of the situation and possible ways to improve it, in particular to get out of the area."
"However, it took some time until the criticality of the situation was noticed and evacuation measures were taken. When the evacuation finally became effective, the ramp cleared quickly."
In dense crowd situations it takes external observation and direction for a crowd to safely disperse.
Hmm , still does not get away from the fact that if they were not acting like a herd of wildebeest and just rushing forward then it would not have happened.
For sure once you are in the melee it is hard to do anything. I was involved in similar crowds, much bigger ones indeed, and it was scary indeed. I went down stairway 13 at Ibrox on day of the disaster , we heard the roar as the last minute goal was scored and people started to try to go back, we were at bottom and just left, only hearing about disaster later. At that time, in Scotland at least, most people were at best half cut as well. Had some scary ones at Hampden with over 100K crowds. Surprising it did not happen more often.0 -
In the column with Brendan Barber, Cameron embraces Osborne's £4,300 lie. This has so many deceptions in the calculations it is hard to always mention them all. Most easily understood is dividing the 2030 GDP difference by the 2015 number of households. David Cameron is a fundamentally dishonest person.0
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Presumably along with all other male MPsAlastairMeeks said:The dance of the seven veils begins:
https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/7256160816085319680 -
Comrades! Labour has a strong new leader. His name is David Cameron, and he needs your help
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/28/comrades-labour-has-a-strong-new-leader-his-name-is-david-camero/Their co-operation is in itself remarkable, as they acknowledge that a "former trade union leader and a Conservative prime minister have never before put pen to paper together". But why is the Tory leader having to pitch so openly for votes from trade union members and the other folk who still read the Guardian?
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I'm wondering if there were klaxons going off in Ladbrokes when I put down my modest wager on some Scottish constituency best a few days ago.TheScreamingEagles said:The irony of last year was the Scottish polling was the most accurate, yet profitably doubted by the bookies the most beforehand.
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I guess this means Ken won't be the Labour candidate in the Tooting by election.Casino_Royale said:
Sweet Jesus. I made a bit of a (risky) joke yesterday about Livingstone probably thinking Goebels was a bit of a wet.TheScreamingEagles said:I don't normally swear, but fuck me, he actually said this
https://twitter.com/smashmorePH/status/725610120739229696
Was I joking??0 -
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Engineers don't build stuff. Engineers design stuff. It is 'hairy-arsed contractors' who build stuff!Sandpit said:
Philippine nurses coming for a job would I'm sure have their employer (most likely the NHS) pay the fee as part of the hiring costs. Ditto Indian engineers, although most of them are building stuff in Dubai and Qatar right now, and earning pretty good money doing it.Indigo said:
My main problem with that is it lets in the richest people, not the best people. You would still have endless Russian oligarchs kids swanning around Knightsbridge, but would never see a talented Engineer from the third world, as for nurses from the Philippines, forget it, £5000 is 3 years salary.MaxPB said:
Nah, you don't even need to do that, just do what rcs has suggested, make immigration here cost more money, a £5000 annual surcharge for NHS insurance for non-residents, a £2500 per child per year non-resident surcharge for the education system etc... That automatically puts off all but the highest earners.Layne said:
May I suggest a couple more?Patrick said:FPT - Let's have another go!
I'm searching for a political party that will:
1. Balance the budget but do so in a way that has a reasonable balance between tax rises and spending cuts (I think we're taxed enough apart from the 0.1%) and allocates spending cuts in a fair way too (sorry rich pensioners you need to be in this together with everyone else).
2. Defend our country and our culture. (Yes I am thinking of the EU and of Islam, defence spending, overseas aid and all the rest).
3. Defend free speech. We have proscribed speech right now. Some look for 'safe spaces'. Free speech means free speech - especially the right to offend someone else.
4. Is socially liberal - I'm fine with gays, soft drugs, etc. But doesn't seek to shove PC crap down my neck.
5. Enforce the law. (Rotherham, etc)
6. Put citizens first and the establishment second. Children over teachers, passengers over tube drivers, patients over doctors, customers over unions, etc.
I have no party to vote for these days. It's depressing.
7. Heavily restrict unskilled migration, and migration from extremist nations like Pakistan and Somalia.
8. A new independent body to regulate the BBC's blatant bias.0 -
“‘Look, Nick,’ said David Cameron impatiently, ‘I just don’t care. We’ve only got one Conservative MP north of the border. Let Labour sort it out. It’s now their problem.’TheScreamingEagles said:
I'd be happy with the Tories finishing second in Scotland.MaxPB said:Or Zac pulls off the shock of the century, UKIP beat the Tories in Wales and Scotland slides into a NOM with SLAB in third. I wonder what odds I can get on all of that...
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I froget, is he still part of Labour conversation over Trident despite mocking a guys mental health condition?TheScreamingEagles said:
I guess this means Ken won't be the Labour candidate in the Tooting by election.Casino_Royale said:
Sweet Jesus. I made a bit of a (risky) joke yesterday about Livingstone probably thinking Goebels was a bit of a wet.TheScreamingEagles said:I don't normally swear, but fuck me, he actually said this
https://twitter.com/smashmorePH/status/725610120739229696
Was I joking??0 -
Cameron is virtue signalling to Blairites, it has ever been thus, hugging hoodies, huskies, turbines on the roof and now fellating trades unions over the EU, he is a disgrace.Sandpit said:
But how many of the "Poorest in our Country" read the Guardian? They're preaching to the choir, would have been much better off writing in the Mirror!Plato_Says said:
/twitter.com/faisalislam/status/7256153080614789130 -
Miss Plato, Cameron's gone from nodding along as a foreign leader disparages the UK to turning tricks for the trade unions.
I'd already decided not to vote Conservative at the local elections, even before the formation of the Patrick Party [on a serious note, if something like that were put together I'd be more than happy to lend a hand with writing/proofing etc], but, if not, that would've pushed me away.
Mr. Owls, I share your contempt for Jess Phillips. [And Livingstone, presumably].0 -
IA I was not expressing an opinion...but asking a question...slight difference..0
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FYI Keiran Pedley is a Labour supporter.blackburn63 said:A couple of points FPT.
Keiran Pedley is a Spurs fan, I therefore agree with everything he says.
TSE, who I understand is cosy with CCHQ said that Cameron estimated that 70 of his MPs would come out for Leave. This is the root problem that not just Cameron but our senior politicians in general have, they surround themselves with nodding dogs, SPADs and focus groups who tell them what they want to hear. How on earth can Cameron understand the mood of the electorate if he doesn't understand the mood of his own MPs. In fairness to Blair, he made Prescott his deputy, he represented everything Blair wasn't and acted as a weather vane.
This referendum is about far more than EU membership, its a wake up call about accountability and public service, Cameron has taken his own people for granted, they won't all forgive him.0 -
Seeing both Judaism and Islam as "medieval" is a disqualification for decency.blackburn63 said:
WTF?Innocent_Abroad said:
Labour cannot go on trying to appeal to both Muslims and Jews. It has to choose between them. Boy, am I ever glad I left the Party!FrancisUrquhart said:http://order-order.com/2016/04/28/rupa-huq-defends-naz-shahs-anti-semitism/
I wonder if a white MP had done the same with material saying all Muslims should be removed from Europe etc, anybody would dare to give this reaction?
There are millions of decent people who support Labour, they don't give a fuck about medieval beliefs.
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If Jeremy Corbyn is not a gimp he should ask Dave that at next week's PMQs. Oh wait a mo.....Layne said:In the column with Brendan Barber, Cameron embraces Osborne's £4,300 lie. This has so many deceptions in the calculations it is hard to always mention them all. Most easily understood is dividing the 2030 GDP difference by the 2015 number of households. David Cameron is a fundamentally dishonest person.
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What a fine principled, patriotic lion of a man.
DEFECTION: Cllr Greg Robbins outlines why he has today joined the Welsh Conservatives, quitting Plaid Cymru.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChHr479XEAAKe88.jpg0 -
Even dividing the 2030 GDP difference by the 2030 projected number of households would still be bollox, the measure of GDP/Household is meaningless, because there is no more than a passing relationship between GDP and household income.Layne said:In the column with Brendan Barber, Cameron embraces Osborne's £4,300 lie. This has so many deceptions in the calculations it is hard to always mention them all. Most easily understood is dividing the 2030 GDP difference by the 2015 number of households. David Cameron is a fundamentally dishonest person.
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You called me a cretin. How is that asking a question?richardDodd said:IA I was not expressing an opinion...but asking a question...slight difference..
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I disagree. Firstly it's about balance rather than it being a binary choice. But in fact companies that treat their staff badly invariably give poor customer service, in part because the staff themselves are demotivated and in part because there develops a poor interpersonal culture throughout the organisation.Innocent_Abroad said:
[6] means that you get treated like dirt in the workplace in order to be treated with respect the rest of the time. Is that what you really want?Patrick said:FPT - Let's have another go!
I'm searching for a political party that will:
1. Balance the budget but do so in a way that has a reasonable balance between tax rises and spending cuts (I think we're taxed enough apart from the 0.1%) and allocates spending cuts in a fair way too (sorry rich pensioners you need to be in this together with everyone else).
2. Defend our country and our culture. (Yes I am thinking of the EU and of Islam, defence spending, overseas aid and all the rest).
3. Defend free speech. We have proscribed speech right now. Some look for 'safe spaces'. Free speech means free speech - especially the right to offend someone else.
4. Is socially liberal - I'm fine with gays, soft drugs, etc. But doesn't seek to shove PC crap down my neck.
5. Enforce the law. (Rotherham, etc)
6. Put citizens first and the establishment second. Children over teachers, passengers over tube drivers, patients over doctors, customers over unions, etc.
I have no party to vote for these days. It's depressing.
The whole thing should happen organically anyway given adequate choice. it's no coincidence that those organisations with poor cultures usually have a well-established monopoly of some sort, whether public or private sector, so that customers - to the extent that they're even recognised as customers - come a poor second behind stitch-ups among decision makers.0 -
I did not think I would ever see a Leader of the Conservative party issue this statement unless they defected to the Lib Dems or Labour.Indigo said:
Cameron is virtue signalling to Blairites, it has ever been thus, hugging hoodies, huskies, turbines on the roof and now fellating trades unions over the EU, he is a disgrace.Sandpit said:
But how many of the "Poorest in our Country" read the Guardian? They're preaching to the choir, would have been much better off writing in the Mirror!Plato_Says said:/twitter.com/faisalislam/status/725615308061478913
" being in Europe has helped to deliver many of the crucial rights that underpin fairness at work. Paid holidays, maternity rights, equal treatment for the millions of people working part-time, protections for agency workers, even equal pay for women at work: all are guaranteed by Europe and all could be at risk if we left."
Maybe that is what Cameron has really done?0 -
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Career before party, he’s seen the writing on the wall.TheScreamingEagles said:What a fine principled, patriotic lion of a man.
DEFECTION: Cllr Greg Robbins outlines why he has today joined the Welsh Conservatives, quitting Plaid Cymru.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChHr479XEAAKe88.jpg 0 -
Are you a cretin ?Innocent_Abroad said:
You called me a cretin. How is that asking a question?richardDodd said:IA I was not expressing an opinion...but asking a question...slight difference..
Why are you being a cretin ?
Why don't you stop being a cretin ?
and of course
Have you stopped being a cretin yet ?
Plenty of choice 0 -
Well they would be able to come for high wage, high skill positions. £400 per month and no access to the benefits system means that minimum earnings of £30k for a single person and £50k for a family of four. If anything we would end up with more immigration of highly skilled people as the arbitrary blocks are removed and those who can't pay their way would be forced to leave as their NI numbers are rescinded and housing benefits and tax credits removed.Indigo said:
My main problem with that is it lets in the richest people, not the best people. You would still have endless Russian oligarchs kids swanning around Knightsbridge, but would never see a talented Engineer from the third world, as for nurses from the Philippines, forget it, £5000 is 3 years salary.MaxPB said:
Nah, you don't even need to do that, just do what rcs has suggested, make immigration here cost more money, a £5000 annual surcharge for NHS insurance for non-residents, a £2500 per child per year non-resident surcharge for the education system etc... That automatically puts off all but the highest earners.Layne said:
May I suggest a couple more?Patrick said:FPT - Let's have another go!
I'm searching for a political party that will:
1. Balance the budget but do so in a way that has a reasonable balance between tax rises and spending cuts (I think we're taxed enough apart from the 0.1%) and allocates spending cuts in a fair way too (sorry rich pensioners you need to be in this together with everyone else).
2. Defend our country and our culture. (Yes I am thinking of the EU and of Islam, defence spending, overseas aid and all the rest).
3. Defend free speech. We have proscribed speech right now. Some look for 'safe spaces'. Free speech means free speech - especially the right to offend someone else.
4. Is socially liberal - I'm fine with gays, soft drugs, etc. But doesn't seek to shove PC crap down my neck.
5. Enforce the law. (Rotherham, etc)
6. Put citizens first and the establishment second. Children over teachers, passengers over tube drivers, patients over doctors, customers over unions, etc.
I have no party to vote for these days. It's depressing.
7. Heavily restrict unskilled migration, and migration from extremist nations like Pakistan and Somalia.
8. A new independent body to regulate the BBC's blatant bias.0 -
Mr. Betting, he's the PM of a majority government. If they'd be at risk, that implies he'd be the ones risking them.
It's a pathetic statement.0 -
Oh dear. And I had you down as a thinker.Casino_Royale said:
But virtually no-one wants to vote for your eurowank.Stark_Dawning said:
'These days'? When has any party advocated all those things? 'Never' is the answer.Patrick said:FPT - Let's have another go!
I'm searching for a political party that will:
1. Balance the budget but do so in a way that has a reasonable balance between tax rises and spending cuts (I think we're taxed enough apart from the 0.1%) and allocates spending cuts in a fair way too (sorry rich pensioners you need to be in this together with everyone else).
2. Defend our country and our culture. (Yes I am thinking of the EU and of Islam, defence spending, overseas aid and all the rest).
3. Defend free speech. We have proscribed speech right now. Some look for 'safe spaces'. Free speech means free speech - especially the right to offend someone else.
4. Is socially liberal - I'm fine with gays, soft drugs, etc. But doesn't seek to shove PC crap down my neck.
5. Enforce the law. (Rotherham, etc)
6. Put citizens first and the establishment second. Children over teachers, passengers over tube drivers, patients over doctors, customers over unions, etc.
I have no party to vote for these days. It's depressing.0 -
Only a tomfool would set up a business that didn't have a USP. That's at least halfway to monopolistic trading. You are far too bright, David, to believe a word economics textbooks spout.david_herdson said:
I disagree. Firstly it's about balance rather than it being a binary choice. But in fact companies that treat their staff badly invariably give poor customer service, in part because the staff themselves are demotivated and in part because there develops a poor interpersonal culture throughout the organisation.Innocent_Abroad said:
[6] means that you get treated like dirt in the workplace in order to be treated with respect the rest of the time. Is that what you really want?Patrick said:FPT - Let's have another go!
I'm searching for a political party that will:
1. Balance the budget but do so in a way that has a reasonable balance between tax rises and spending cuts (I think we're taxed enough apart from the 0.1%) and allocates spending cuts in a fair way too (sorry rich pensioners you need to be in this together with everyone else).
2. Defend our country and our culture. (Yes I am thinking of the EU and of Islam, defence spending, overseas aid and all the rest).
3. Defend free speech. We have proscribed speech right now. Some look for 'safe spaces'. Free speech means free speech - especially the right to offend someone else.
4. Is socially liberal - I'm fine with gays, soft drugs, etc. But doesn't seek to shove PC crap down my neck.
5. Enforce the law. (Rotherham, etc)
6. Put citizens first and the establishment second. Children over teachers, passengers over tube drivers, patients over doctors, customers over unions, etc.
I have no party to vote for these days. It's depressing.
The whole thing should happen organically anyway given adequate choice. it's no coincidence that those organisations with poor cultures usually have a well-established monopoly of some sort, whether public or private sector, so that customers - to the extent that they're even recognised as customers - come a poor second behind stitch-ups among decision makers.
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@MartinHoscik: Team Khan won’t be chuffed with Ken’s comment that Sadiq “is just like me” - caller immediately after said it was “kiss of death” for Sadiq.0
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A mistake no one would make with youStark_Dawning said:
Oh dear. And I had you down as a thinker.Casino_Royale said:
But virtually no-one wants to vote for your eurowank.Stark_Dawning said:
'These days'? When has any party advocated all those things? 'Never' is the answer.Patrick said:FPT - Let's have another go!
I'm searching for a political party that will:
1. Balance the budget but do so in a way that has a reasonable balance between tax rises and spending cuts (I think we're taxed enough apart from the 0.1%) and allocates spending cuts in a fair way too (sorry rich pensioners you need to be in this together with everyone else).
2. Defend our country and our culture. (Yes I am thinking of the EU and of Islam, defence spending, overseas aid and all the rest).
3. Defend free speech. We have proscribed speech right now. Some look for 'safe spaces'. Free speech means free speech - especially the right to offend someone else.
4. Is socially liberal - I'm fine with gays, soft drugs, etc. But doesn't seek to shove PC crap down my neck.
5. Enforce the law. (Rotherham, etc)
6. Put citizens first and the establishment second. Children over teachers, passengers over tube drivers, patients over doctors, customers over unions, etc.
I have no party to vote for these days. It's depressing. 0 -
Likewise - but your post at 10.08am shows that perhaps I was wrong.Stark_Dawning said:
Oh dear. And I had you down as a thinker.Casino_Royale said:
But virtually no-one wants to vote for your eurowank.Stark_Dawning said:
'These days'? When has any party advocated all those things? 'Never' is the answer.Patrick said:FPT - Let's have another go!
I'm searching for a political party that will:
1. Balance the budget but do so in a way that has a reasonable balance between tax rises and spending cuts (I think we're taxed enough apart from the 0.1%) and allocates spending cuts in a fair way too (sorry rich pensioners you need to be in this together with everyone else).
2. Defend our country and our culture. (Yes I am thinking of the EU and of Islam, defence spending, overseas aid and all the rest).
3. Defend free speech. We have proscribed speech right now. Some look for 'safe spaces'. Free speech means free speech - especially the right to offend someone else.
4. Is socially liberal - I'm fine with gays, soft drugs, etc. But doesn't seek to shove PC crap down my neck.
5. Enforce the law. (Rotherham, etc)
6. Put citizens first and the establishment second. Children over teachers, passengers over tube drivers, patients over doctors, customers over unions, etc.
I have no party to vote for these days. It's depressing.0 -
Which of those do you oppose?TCPoliticalBetting said:
I did not think I would ever see a Leader of the Conservative party issue this statement unless they defected to the Lib Dems or Labour.Indigo said:
Cameron is virtue signalling to Blairites, it has ever been thus, hugging hoodies, huskies, turbines on the roof and now fellating trades unions over the EU, he is a disgrace.Sandpit said:
But how many of the "Poorest in our Country" read the Guardian? They're preaching to the choir, would have been much better off writing in the Mirror!Plato_Says said:/twitter.com/faisalislam/status/725615308061478913
" being in Europe has helped to deliver many of the crucial rights that underpin fairness at work. Paid holidays, maternity rights, equal treatment for the millions of people working part-time, protections for agency workers, even equal pay for women at work: all are guaranteed by Europe and all could be at risk if we left."
Maybe that is what Cameron has really done?
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As I noted on an earlier thread - it's crap Party management. How can you not know that your best mate Gove is going to break for Leave? Or half your MPs? Either you've not been listening for quite a long time, or you've dismissed their valid concerns. When the driver of the bus looks over his shoulder and discovers half the passengers got off en route - he's only got himself to blame.blackburn63 said:A couple of points FPT.
Keiran Pedley is a Spurs fan, I therefore agree with everything he says.
TSE, who I understand is cosy with CCHQ said that Cameron estimated that 70 of his MPs would come out for Leave. This is the root problem that not just Cameron but our senior politicians in general have, they surround themselves with nodding dogs, SPADs and focus groups who tell them what they want to hear. How on earth can Cameron understand the mood of the electorate if he doesn't understand the mood of his own MPs. In fairness to Blair, he made Prescott his deputy, he represented everything Blair wasn't and acted as a weather vane.
This referendum is about far more than EU membership, its a wake up call about accountability and public service, Cameron has taken his own people for granted, they won't all forgive him.0 -
Can't be long before Guido has a picture of Ken with red cross-hairs over it!0
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Really sporting of the Labour Party to help out the Tory Party a week before a crucial set of elections.0
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I'm rather proud of it. I'm thinking of having it framed, to remind me in years to come how correct I can be.Casino_Royale said:
Likewise - but your post at 10.08am shows that perhaps I was wrong.Stark_Dawning said:
Oh dear. And I had you down as a thinker.Casino_Royale said:
But virtually no-one wants to vote for your eurowank.Stark_Dawning said:
'These days'? When has any party advocated all those things? 'Never' is the answer.Patrick said:FPT - Let's have another go!
I'm searching for a political party that will:
1. Balance the budget but do so in a way that has a reasonable balance between tax rises and spending cuts (I think we're taxed enough apart from the 0.1%) and allocates spending cuts in a fair way too (sorry rich pensioners you need to be in this together with everyone else).
2. Defend our country and our culture. (Yes I am thinking of the EU and of Islam, defence spending, overseas aid and all the rest).
3. Defend free speech. We have proscribed speech right now. Some look for 'safe spaces'. Free speech means free speech - especially the right to offend someone else.
4. Is socially liberal - I'm fine with gays, soft drugs, etc. But doesn't seek to shove PC crap down my neck.
5. Enforce the law. (Rotherham, etc)
6. Put citizens first and the establishment second. Children over teachers, passengers over tube drivers, patients over doctors, customers over unions, etc.
I have no party to vote for these days. It's depressing.0 -
Well yes. There's also the problem that it assumed out of thin air that EEA membership was no advantage over WTO rules for service companies, even though EEA and EU members have exact same trade access for services.Indigo said:
Even dividing the 2030 GDP difference by the 2030 projected number of households would still be bollox, the measure of GDP/Household is meaningless, because there is no more than a passing relationship between GDP and household income.Layne said:In the column with Brendan Barber, Cameron embraces Osborne's £4,300 lie. This has so many deceptions in the calculations it is hard to always mention them all. Most easily understood is dividing the 2030 GDP difference by the 2015 number of households. David Cameron is a fundamentally dishonest person.
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The Mirror really isn't very keen on Remain at all. I've seen a lot of pro-Brexit opinion articles - they know their readers. I agree it'd be a much better platform, but I can't see Cameron getting any audience at all.Sandpit said:
But how many of the "Poorest in our Country" read the Guardian? They're preaching to the choir, would have been much better off writing in the Mirror!Plato_Says said:/twitter.com/faisalislam/status/725615308061478913
Has he ever done a piece there? He's written one for NewDay recently. I forget that even exists.0 -
It can't be long until they pull the plug on that paper surely...Plato_Says said:
The Mirror really isn't very keen on Remain at all. I've seen a lot of pro-Brexit opinion articles - they know their readers. I agree it'd be a much better platform, but I can't see Cameron getting any audience at all.Sandpit said:
But how many of the "Poorest in our Country" read the Guardian? They're preaching to the choir, would have been much better off writing in the Mirror!Plato_Says said:/twitter.com/faisalislam/status/725615308061478913
Has he ever done a piece there? He's written one for NewDay recently. I forget that even exists.0 -
The lack of virtue signals from Livingstone & Haq are strong today.0
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But considered opinion is saying that a sub-35% turnout in London gives Zac a 50/50 chance of winning Mayoralty. Same opinion from both sides.Casino_Royale said:
But what?Dixie said:
I agree there is a lot of 'meh' and the opinion polls back that. But....Casino_Royale said:
Zac will lose because he won't even turn out his own Tory base.MaxPB said:Or Zac pulls off the shock of the century, UKIP beat the Tories in Wales and Scotland slides into a NOM with SLAB in third. I wonder what odds I can get on all of that...
Virtually every Tory activist I speak to is "meh".0 -
Blimey, I turn away to do an hour of work and Ken Livingston goes full on bat-people crazed revisionist historian on live radio.TheScreamingEagles said:Really sporting of the Labour Party to help out the Tory Party a week before a crucial set of elections.
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It's a wonderfully circular argumentglw said:In a way I do admire the chutzpah of rebutting accusations of antisemitism with "it's a Jewish conspiracy".
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He's a Spurs fan, far more important than anything elseCasino_Royale said:
FYI Keiran Pedley is a Labour supporter.blackburn63 said:A couple of points FPT.
Keiran Pedley is a Spurs fan, I therefore agree with everything he says.
TSE, who I understand is cosy with CCHQ said that Cameron estimated that 70 of his MPs would come out for Leave. This is the root problem that not just Cameron but our senior politicians in general have, they surround themselves with nodding dogs, SPADs and focus groups who tell them what they want to hear. How on earth can Cameron understand the mood of the electorate if he doesn't understand the mood of his own MPs. In fairness to Blair, he made Prescott his deputy, he represented everything Blair wasn't and acted as a weather vane.
This referendum is about far more than EU membership, its a wake up call about accountability and public service, Cameron has taken his own people for granted, they won't all forgive him.0 -
And that direction of travel is no doubt one reason why Corbyn was (and for that matter, apparently still is) unkeen to take action against Shah - apart from his general unwillingness to engage in confrontation.TheScreamingEagles said:@jessphillips: Ken Livingstone must be suspended from the Labour Party
How many others on the Labour left have made 'edgy' comments, either to burnish their 'radical' reputation or because they actually believe it?0 -
These rights would only be at risk because the fecking Tories would want to take them away!TCPoliticalBetting said:
I did not think I would ever see a Leader of the Conservative party issue this statement unless they defected to the Lib Dems or Labour.Indigo said:
Cameron is virtue signalling to Blairites, it has ever been thus, hugging hoodies, huskies, turbines on the roof and now fellating trades unions over the EU, he is a disgrace.Sandpit said:
But how many of the "Poorest in our Country" read the Guardian? They're preaching to the choir, would have been much better off writing in the Mirror!Plato_Says said:/twitter.com/faisalislam/status/725615308061478913
" being in Europe has helped to deliver many of the crucial rights that underpin fairness at work. Paid holidays, maternity rights, equal treatment for the millions of people working part-time, protections for agency workers, even equal pay for women at work: all are guaranteed by Europe and all could be at risk if we left."
Maybe that is what Cameron has really done?
Either Cameron is a total hypocrite or he has just crossed the floor of the house.0 -
Don't panic, don't panic....TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Via Mike
YouGov referendum SEG split
ABC1s 51% IN 36% OUT
C2DEs 27% IN 51% OUT
In past elections ABC1s much more likely to vote0 -
So now we have a 'Conservative' prime minister speaking like Jacques Delors.TCPoliticalBetting said:
I did not think I would ever see a Leader of the Conservative party issue this statement unless they defected to the Lib Dems or Labour.Indigo said:
Cameron is virtue signalling to Blairites, it has ever been thus, hugging hoodies, huskies, turbines on the roof and now fellating trades unions over the EU, he is a disgrace.Sandpit said:
But how many of the "Poorest in our Country" read the Guardian? They're preaching to the choir, would have been much better off writing in the Mirror!Plato_Says said:/twitter.com/faisalislam/status/725615308061478913
" being in Europe has helped to deliver many of the crucial rights that underpin fairness at work. Paid holidays, maternity rights, equal treatment for the millions of people working part-time, protections for agency workers, even equal pay for women at work: all are guaranteed by Europe and all could be at risk if we left."
Maybe that is what Cameron has really done?
Extraordinary. Either he is a 100% paid-up Europhile or he really does believe in absolutely nothing and will therefore say absolutely anything.
Either way, he proves himself dishonest and disreputable.0 -
I have a feeling that Staines minions have a whole filing cabinet full of them, just waiting to see the light of day.david_herdson said:
And that direction of travel is no doubt one reason why Corbyn was (and for that matter, apparently still is) unkeen to take action against Shah - apart from his general unwillingness to engage in confrontation.TheScreamingEagles said:@jessphillips: Ken Livingstone must be suspended from the Labour Party
How many others on the Labour left have made 'edgy' comments, either to burnish their 'radical' reputation or because they actually believe it?0 -
Sadiq Khan tries to have it both ways depending on how big the story is. This is a man who responds to criticism of women having to go through a back entrance at an event by saying its a matter of respecting religious freedom.0
-
IA.. I asked if you were a cretin..I did not say you were one0
-
And yet here you are, Layne, still talking about it.Layne said:In the column with Brendan Barber, Cameron embraces Osborne's £4,300 lie. This has so many deceptions in the calculations it is hard to always mention them all. Most easily understood is dividing the 2030 GDP difference by the 2015 number of households. David Cameron is a fundamentally dishonest person.
That'll suit George very nicely.0 -
I admire the use of the word 'chutzpah' in that context.glw said:In a way I do admire the chutzpah of rebutting accusations of antisemitism with "it's a Jewish conspiracy".
0 -
I oppose the view that we have these because of Europe. Equal treatment of workers on grounds of their sex comes from UK law back in the 1970s or earlier etc etc. We have a UK PM ignoring our history of making our own laws and being proud about that.Innocent_Abroad said:
Which of those do you oppose?TCPoliticalBetting said:
I did not think I would ever see a Leader of the Conservative party issue this statement unless they defected to the Lib Dems or Labour.Indigo said:
Cameron is virtue signalling to Blairites, it has ever been thus, hugging hoodies, huskies, turbines on the roof and now fellating trades unions over the EU, he is a disgrace.Sandpit said:
But how many of the "Poorest in our Country" read the Guardian? They're preaching to the choir, would have been much better off writing in the Mirror!Plato_Says said:/twitter.com/faisalislam/status/725615308061478913
" being in Europe has helped to deliver many of the crucial rights that underpin fairness at work. Paid holidays, maternity rights, equal treatment for the millions of people working part-time, protections for agency workers, even equal pay for women at work: all are guaranteed by Europe and all could be at risk if we left."
Maybe that is what Cameron has really done?
0 -
Arron Banks did it again yesterday too.Casino_Royale said:
And yet here you are, Layne, still talking about it.Layne said:In the column with Brendan Barber, Cameron embraces Osborne's £4,300 lie. This has so many deceptions in the calculations it is hard to always mention them all. Most easily understood is dividing the 2030 GDP difference by the 2015 number of households. David Cameron is a fundamentally dishonest person.
That'll suit George very nicely.
He's getting a Knighthood from Dave were Remain to win.0 -
The biggest mistake is taking seriously an economic forecast for 14 years time.Indigo said:Even dividing the 2030 GDP difference by the 2030 projected number of households would still be bollox, the measure of GDP/Household is meaningless, because there is no more than a passing relationship between GDP and household income.
0 -
I posted this yesterday, but worth linking to it again..
'Nice shot Abu, but you roasted us too!'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3563080/Nice-shot-Abu-roasted-Chaotic-footage-shows-reality-ISIS-fighters-hapless-militants-bicker-moan-firefight.html
The western government really should be using this as anti-ISIS propaganda. You too could go to Syria and be a laughing stock.0 -
And another Labour MP comes out to slam Ken
https://twitter.com/ConorMcGinn/status/7256238504577966080 -
I'd like to see the split of the ABs without the C1s, personally.TheScreamingEagles said:Via Mike
YouGov referendum SEG split
ABC1s 51% IN 36% OUT
C2DEs 27% IN 51% OUT
In past elections ABC1s much more likely to vote0 -
0
-
I was a Blairite. He's not appealing to me at all. I've no idea who he is anymore. He's pork-barreling HMG to win.Indigo said:
Cameron is virtue signalling to Blairites, it has ever been thus, hugging hoodies, huskies, turbines on the roof and now fellating trades unions over the EU, he is a disgrace.Sandpit said:
But how many of the "Poorest in our Country" read the Guardian? They're preaching to the choir, would have been much better off writing in the Mirror!Plato_Says said:/twitter.com/faisalislam/status/7256153080614789130 -
The interesting question is within the ABC1 are the 51% or the 36% more likely to turn out. I would suggest the latter by some margin, Leavers are more motivated.TheScreamingEagles said:Via Mike
YouGov referendum SEG split
ABC1s 51% IN 36% OUT
C2DEs 27% IN 51% OUT
In past elections ABC1s much more likely to vote0 -
Look at your post of 10.27 am. It's clearly a rhetorical question. Now followed by over half an hour of weaselling.richardDodd said:IA.. I asked if you were a cretin..I did not say you were one
0 -
This government (and the Conservatives in Opposition) have opposed a great deal of pan-EU employment legislation. Cameron seems to be implying that if we left the EU, his own government would repeal these laws, and therefore EU membership is necessary to prevent his own government from acting in ways that it would like.SandyRentool said:
These rights would only be at risk because the fecking Tories would want to take them away!TCPoliticalBetting said:
I did not think I would ever see a Leader of the Conservative party issue this statement unless they defected to the Lib Dems or Labour.Indigo said:
Cameron is virtue signalling to Blairites, it has ever been thus, hugging hoodies, huskies, turbines on the roof and now fellating trades unions over the EU, he is a disgrace.Sandpit said:
But how many of the "Poorest in our Country" read the Guardian? They're preaching to the choir, would have been much better off writing in the Mirror!Plato_Says said:/twitter.com/faisalislam/status/725615308061478913
" being in Europe has helped to deliver many of the crucial rights that underpin fairness at work. Paid holidays, maternity rights, equal treatment for the millions of people working part-time, protections for agency workers, even equal pay for women at work: all are guaranteed by Europe and all could be at risk if we left."
Maybe that is what Cameron has really done?
Either Cameron is a total hypocrite or he has just crossed the floor of the house.0 -
Let's face reality. All Labour's ultra left leadership, Corbyn, McDonnell, Milne et al, would cheerfully see Israel wiped off the map. Just as they all supported the Provisional IRA etc. It's what they are.david_herdson said:
And that direction of travel is no doubt one reason why Corbyn was (and for that matter, apparently still is) unkeen to take action against Shah - apart from his general unwillingness to engage in confrontation.TheScreamingEagles said:@jessphillips: Ken Livingstone must be suspended from the Labour Party
How many others on the Labour left have made 'edgy' comments, either to burnish their 'radical' reputation or because they actually believe it?0 -
Agreed, he is cut from the same cloth, just a better liarLayne said:Sadiq Khan tries to have it both ways depending on how big the story is. This is a man who responds to criticism of women having to go through a back entrance at an event by saying its a matter of respecting religious freedom.
0 -
YouGov don't go into that level of detail.Casino_Royale said:
I'd like to see the split of the ABs without the C1s, personally.TheScreamingEagles said:Via Mike
YouGov referendum SEG split
ABC1s 51% IN 36% OUT
C2DEs 27% IN 51% OUT
In past elections ABC1s much more likely to vote
This is going to sound very condescending, patronising, and elitist of me, but there's a reason Cameron decided to hold the referendum during the European Championships, that split explains it.0 -
I thought so, given what I've read whilst following his Twitter account.Casino_Royale said:
FYI Keiran Pedley is a Labour supporter.blackburn63 said:A couple of points FPT.
Keiran Pedley is a Spurs fan, I therefore agree with everything he says.
TSE, who I understand is cosy with CCHQ said that Cameron estimated that 70 of his MPs would come out for Leave. This is the root problem that not just Cameron but our senior politicians in general have, they surround themselves with nodding dogs, SPADs and focus groups who tell them what they want to hear. How on earth can Cameron understand the mood of the electorate if he doesn't understand the mood of his own MPs. In fairness to Blair, he made Prescott his deputy, he represented everything Blair wasn't and acted as a weather vane.
This referendum is about far more than EU membership, its a wake up call about accountability and public service, Cameron has taken his own people for granted, they won't all forgive him.0 -
FU..The ISIS combatant wearing the head cam was killed in that little encounter..0
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Maybe he's panicking and just not engaging his brain.SandyRentool said:
These rights would only be at risk because the fecking Tories would want to take them away!TCPoliticalBetting said:
I did not think I would ever see a Leader of the Conservative party issue this statement unless they defected to the Lib Dems or Labour.Indigo said:
Cameron is virtue signalling to Blairites, it has ever been thus, hugging hoodies, huskies, turbines on the roof and now fellating trades unions over the EU, he is a disgrace.Sandpit said:
But how many of the "Poorest in our Country" read the Guardian? They're preaching to the choir, would have been much better off writing in the Mirror!Plato_Says said:/twitter.com/faisalislam/status/725615308061478913
" being in Europe has helped to deliver many of the crucial rights that underpin fairness at work. Paid holidays, maternity rights, equal treatment for the millions of people working part-time, protections for agency workers, even equal pay for women at work: all are guaranteed by Europe and all could be at risk if we left."
Maybe that is what Cameron has really done?
Either Cameron is a total hypocrite or he has just crossed the floor of the house.0 -
drip drip drip dripFrancisUrquhart said:
I have a feeling that Staines minions have a whole filing cabinet full of them, just waiting to see the light of day.david_herdson said:
And that direction of travel is no doubt one reason why Corbyn was (and for that matter, apparently still is) unkeen to take action against Shah - apart from his general unwillingness to engage in confrontation.TheScreamingEagles said:@jessphillips: Ken Livingstone must be suspended from the Labour Party
How many others on the Labour left have made 'edgy' comments, either to burnish their 'radical' reputation or because they actually believe it?
I imagine they've gone for a relatively junior MP first, having already nailed a few councillors.
0 -
There were a lot of ABC1s at the Spectator debate, which Leave "won", didn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:Via Mike
YouGov referendum SEG split
ABC1s 51% IN 36% OUT
C2DEs 27% IN 51% OUT
In past elections ABC1s much more likely to vote0 -
I know. I watched the full film on Vice. I presume the Peshmerga gave it to Vice, as they have had reporters on the front line with them for a long time now.richardDodd said:FU..The ISIS combatant wearing the head cam was killed in that little encounter..
0 -
Blair didn't make Prescott his deputy; Prescott was independently elected at the same time (in fact, prescott ran against Blair for the leadership too). Blair did at least have the sense to listen to Prescott as the authentic voice of Labour, from time to time.blackburn63 said:A couple of points FPT.
Keiran Pedley is a Spurs fan, I therefore agree with everything he says.
TSE, who I understand is cosy with CCHQ said that Cameron estimated that 70 of his MPs would come out for Leave. This is the root problem that not just Cameron but our senior politicians in general have, they surround themselves with nodding dogs, SPADs and focus groups who tell them what they want to hear. How on earth can Cameron understand the mood of the electorate if he doesn't understand the mood of his own MPs. In fairness to Blair, he made Prescott his deputy, he represented everything Blair wasn't and acted as a weather vane.
This referendum is about far more than EU membership, its a wake up call about accountability and public service, Cameron has taken his own people for granted, they won't all forgive him.0 -
" If there is hope..it lies in the proles"TheScreamingEagles said:Via Mike
YouGov referendum SEG split
ABC1s 51% IN 36% OUT
C2DEs 27% IN 51% OUT
In past elections ABC1s much more likely to vote0 -
Corbyn and his party could have great fun with Cameron at the next PMQs. He should start by thanking the PM for his conversion to Labour policies on the social chapter. Then in follow up questions highlight each one and ask what led Cameron to his damascene conversion to the Labour view on each of them... If that does not cause heart attacks on the tory back benches nothing will... Mentioning Jaques Delors as another poster below highlighted would just add to the Labour merriment. The SDP and the Lib Dems could even join in.SandyRentool said:
These rights would only be at risk because the fecking Tories would want to take them away!TCPoliticalBetting said:
I did not think I would ever see a Leader of the Conservative party issue this statement unless they defected to the Lib Dems or Labour.Indigo said:
Cameron is virtue signalling to Blairites, it has ever been thus, hugging hoodies, huskies, turbines on the roof and now fellating trades unions over the EU, he is a disgrace.Sandpit said:
But how many of the "Poorest in our Country" read the Guardian? They're preaching to the choir, would have been much better off writing in the Mirror!Plato_Says said:/twitter.com/faisalislam/status/725615308061478913
" being in Europe has helped to deliver many of the crucial rights that underpin fairness at work. Paid holidays, maternity rights, equal treatment for the millions of people working part-time, protections for agency workers, even equal pay for women at work: all are guaranteed by Europe and all could be at risk if we left."
Maybe that is what Cameron has really done?
Either Cameron is a total hypocrite or he has just crossed the floor of the house.
0 -
Some extraordinary numbers from Yougov. UKIP are on 31% with working class voters and 24% among voters aged over 50.0
-
It's a lot easier to go after the Earl of Strafford than to go after the king.0
-
Leave need to campaign hard on the housing issue to win over ABC1s, young people and Londoners. The OECD report says explicitly that housing would be more affordable if we left.0
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Sadiq Khan acting all shocked....lets not forget his own speechwriter* had to be sacked for disgusting social media posts both before and during his employment with Khan. Either Khan is incompetent and never checked or he turned a blind eye.
And shock horror...
http://order-order.com/2016/04/28/khan-campaigned-for-naz-shah-defended-ken-on-anti-semitism/
* and nobody seemed to wonder how this guy got the job in the first place given his piss poor qualifications / suitability for the role.0 -
Yeah, but I'm sure if The New Statesman held a similar debate, Remain would win that debate.TOPPING said:
There were a lot of ABC1s at the Spectator debate, which Leave "won", didn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:Via Mike
YouGov referendum SEG split
ABC1s 51% IN 36% OUT
C2DEs 27% IN 51% OUT
In past elections ABC1s much more likely to vote0 -
Maybe try writing fewer cretinous posts?Innocent_Abroad said:
Look at your post of 10.27 am. It's clearly a rhetorical question. Now followed by over half an hour of weaselling.richardDodd said:IA.. I asked if you were a cretin..I did not say you were one
"What is Fascist is your belief in your unfettered belief to define Fascism. Among other things"
I mean FFS...
0 -
Spurs and Zac Goldsmith are around the same odds on Betfair !Plato_Says said:
I thought so, given what I've read whilst following his Twitter account.Casino_Royale said:
FYI Keiran Pedley is a Labour supporter.blackburn63 said:A couple of points FPT.
Keiran Pedley is a Spurs fan, I therefore agree with everything he says.
TSE, who I understand is cosy with CCHQ said that Cameron estimated that 70 of his MPs would come out for Leave. This is the root problem that not just Cameron but our senior politicians in general have, they surround themselves with nodding dogs, SPADs and focus groups who tell them what they want to hear. How on earth can Cameron understand the mood of the electorate if he doesn't understand the mood of his own MPs. In fairness to Blair, he made Prescott his deputy, he represented everything Blair wasn't and acted as a weather vane.
This referendum is about far more than EU membership, its a wake up call about accountability and public service, Cameron has taken his own people for granted, they won't all forgive him.
So Kieran should have 1 result to cheer shortly
0 -
If I had know Keiran was a Spurs fan, I would never have introduced him to Mike.Pulpstar said:
Spurs and Zac Goldsmith are around the same odds on Betfair !Plato_Says said:
I thought so, given what I've read whilst following his Twitter account.Casino_Royale said:
FYI Keiran Pedley is a Labour supporter.blackburn63 said:A couple of points FPT.
Keiran Pedley is a Spurs fan, I therefore agree with everything he says.
TSE, who I understand is cosy with CCHQ said that Cameron estimated that 70 of his MPs would come out for Leave. This is the root problem that not just Cameron but our senior politicians in general have, they surround themselves with nodding dogs, SPADs and focus groups who tell them what they want to hear. How on earth can Cameron understand the mood of the electorate if he doesn't understand the mood of his own MPs. In fairness to Blair, he made Prescott his deputy, he represented everything Blair wasn't and acted as a weather vane.
This referendum is about far more than EU membership, its a wake up call about accountability and public service, Cameron has taken his own people for granted, they won't all forgive him.
So Kieran should have 1 result to cheer shortly0 -
Why do non-voters not vote? 'Nothing ever makes a difference' is a common reply. That is for an election, not a referendum. No one can say that upon the outcome of the referendum nothing will change.Indigo said:
The interesting question is within the ABC1 are the 51% or the 36% more likely to turn out. I would suggest the latter by some margin, Leavers are more motivated.TheScreamingEagles said:Via Mike
YouGov referendum SEG split
ABC1s 51% IN 36% OUT
C2DEs 27% IN 51% OUT
In past elections ABC1s much more likely to vote
It surely makes more sense to measure propensity to vote from the refendum sample directly, rather than superimpose demographic profiles from an election context.0 -
Buried in this is something @Richard_Nabavi has rightly been flagging up:
http://news.sky.com/story/1686289/why-is-osborne-so-sure-of-eu-campaign-victory?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter
"This is a preview to the long anticipated HM Treasury report into the short-term impact of a Brexit vote.
As we know, the Chancellor has already anticipated that this could include a spike in mortgage costs.
Undoubtedly, this will leave pro-Leave campaigners absolutely furious.
This second report due in early May will be much more the horror story than the Project Fear alleged of the first report."
0 -
From the Spectator article on the BBC - I find this extraordinary:
"The same ambiguity applies when it comes to the EU. Bourne commissioned a research company called Newswatch to analyse the discussion of the EU on the Today programme between March 2004 and last June. In the monitored sample, 4,275 guests appeared to talk about the EU, of whom just 132 were in favour of British withdrawal. That’s 3.2 per cent of the total, even though opinion polls in the same period put the level of public support for withdrawal at between 33 and 50 per cent. Of those 132, some 95 were members of Ukip and over a third of the pro-Brexit contributions were from one man, Nigel Farage."0 -
The referendum will lead to an existential crisis for Labour that they are ill-prepared to withstand.Sean_F said:Some extraordinary numbers from Yougov. UKIP are on 31% with working class voters and 24% among voters aged over 50.
0 -
He's a whip too.TheScreamingEagles said:And another Labour MP comes out to slam Ken
https://twitter.com/ConorMcGinn/status/7256238504577966080 -
I have absolutely no idea why Cameron has 'co-authored' the piece. It would stand perfectly well - within its context - coming from just barber.TCPoliticalBetting said:
I did not think I would ever see a Leader of the Conservative party issue this statement unless they defected to the Lib Dems or Labour.Indigo said:
Cameron is virtue signalling to Blairites, it has ever been thus, hugging hoodies, huskies, turbines on the roof and now fellating trades unions over the EU, he is a disgrace.Sandpit said:
But how many of the "Poorest in our Country" read the Guardian? They're preaching to the choir, would have been much better off writing in the Mirror!Plato_Says said:/twitter.com/faisalislam/status/725615308061478913
" being in Europe has helped to deliver many of the crucial rights that underpin fairness at work. Paid holidays, maternity rights, equal treatment for the millions of people working part-time, protections for agency workers, even equal pay for women at work: all are guaranteed by Europe and all could be at risk if we left."
Maybe that is what Cameron has really done?0 -
Vote Leave (are you reading?) need to note this and get their framing of the debate and their rebuttals in first.AlastairMeeks said:Buried in this is something @Richard_Nabavi has rightly been flagging up:
http://news.sky.com/story/1686289/why-is-osborne-so-sure-of-eu-campaign-victory?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter
"This is a preview to the long anticipated HM Treasury report into the short-term impact of a Brexit vote.
As we know, the Chancellor has already anticipated that this could include a spike in mortgage costs.
Undoubtedly, this will leave pro-Leave campaigners absolutely furious.
This second report due in early May will be much more the horror story than the Project Fear alleged of the first report."
Everything Remain are doing they are giving plenty of warning about.0 -
Some Leavers are Rabid though.Stark_Dawning said:
If Remain wins - by whatever margin - Cameron and Osborne will be fine. This is reminding me of the Left's travails over unilateral disarmament in the 1980s. Yes, there was no end of abuse and bitterness whilst the argument raged, but once the view was settled everyone just shrugged and moved on. Even a die-hard unilateralist like Corbyn becoming leader hasn't revivified the matter. This will be Leave's last battle. If they lose, neither they nor anyone else will be able to summon up the energy to persevere any more.Sandpit said:
After the effort he has put in and the number of his own side he's alienated in the process, Cameron has to win big or he's likely to be toast in short order. 60-40 as a minimum to avoid a challenge over the summer?GIN1138 said:FTPT
TheScreamingEagles said:
You sound like a lefty class warrior. You're going to be very disappointed if Remain wins aren't you?GIN1138 said:
People have had it with the Posh Boys.TheScreamingEagles said:Zac's down to 2% on Betfair, new poll coming out ?
I'm expecting REMAIN to win after everything they've done.
In a way that's when the fun begins as we can start setting about destroying Cameron and Osborne for their treachery. We've got to see both of them humiliated and turfed out of office in disgrace.
Realistically Cameron will be off on his own terms I suppose, but we can still tear Osborne to pieces (especially if the Tories are mad enough to make him leader - Fingers crossed)
As a unilateralist in the 80's I was wrong.
Cant see the reasonable leavers like Casino, Sean Fear let alone the even more rabid leavers saying that ever should Remain win.
I am 67% Leave 33% WNV at the moment BTW0 -
0
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The International Consortium of Investigative Journalists is about to unleash a huge data dump about how some of the world's wealthiest and most powerful people hide their cash.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/panama-papers-data-dump-in-may-2016-4?r=US&IR=T
Basically they are going to release all the data in searchable form. Although given the Guardian only managed 4 days worth of revelations, I am going to presume it won't be very exciting.0 -
Honestly, I'm gobsmacked by it. It's just beyond wrong on every level.Sean_F said:
This government (and the Conservatives in Opposition) have opposed a great deal of pan-EU employment legislation. Cameron seems to be implying that if we left the EU, his own government would repeal these laws, and therefore EU membership is necessary to prevent his own government from acting in ways that it would like.SandyRentool said:
These rights would only be at risk because the fecking Tories would want to take them away!TCPoliticalBetting said:
I did not think I would ever see a Leader of the Conservative party issue this statement unless they defected to the Lib Dems or Labour.Indigo said:
Cameron is virtue signalling to Blairites, it has ever been thus, hugging hoodies, huskies, turbines on the roof and now fellating trades unions over the EU, he is a disgrace.Sandpit said:
But how many of the "Poorest in our Country" read the Guardian? They're preaching to the choir, would have been much better off writing in the Mirror!Plato_Says said:/twitter.com/faisalislam/status/725615308061478913
" being in Europe has helped to deliver many of the crucial rights that underpin fairness at work. Paid holidays, maternity rights, equal treatment for the millions of people working part-time, protections for agency workers, even equal pay for women at work: all are guaranteed by Europe and all could be at risk if we left."
Maybe that is what Cameron has really done?
Either Cameron is a total hypocrite or he has just crossed the floor of the house.0 -
I was at that debate. Leave won 2:1 on the voting card.TOPPING said:
There were a lot of ABC1s at the Spectator debate, which Leave "won", didn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:Via Mike
YouGov referendum SEG split
ABC1s 51% IN 36% OUT
C2DEs 27% IN 51% OUT
In past elections ABC1s much more likely to vote
Was it a Conservative leaning and politically engaged audience? Yes, but that's precisely why it presages such significance for the internal politics of the Party after the referendum.
I've never seen or heard a politician cheered as loudly as Dan Hannan was. It was deafening.0
![[Deleted User]](https://wd.vanillicon.com/d2ea526b1b06ed109333f390c7ae956b_100.png)
