As I said, instead of just reaching for the "RACIST" button on the Guardian approved keyboard, have a really hard think about what pandering to Muslims has done to your party and if you think it is heading in the right direction.
Labour supposedly "pandering to Muslims" has nothing to do with the events of the past few days. Ken Livingstone would always have been a racist irrespective of what stances Labour had taken, whether they "pandered" to various people or not.
So Naz Shah and Rupa Huq as well as the vast number of other Muslim anti-Semites in your party are just imaginary? Right.
Clearly you're happier burying your head in the sand over the direction of your party than actually seeing it for what it really is. Is it any wonder that UKIP took more votes off Labour than they did from the Tories last year and are about to the same in Wales next week.
As I said, instead of just reaching for the "RACIST" button on the Guardian approved keyboard, have a really hard think about what pandering to Muslims has done to your party and if you think it is heading in the right direction.
Labour supposedly "pandering to Muslims" has nothing to do with the events of the past few days. Ken Livingstone would always have been a racist irrespective of what stances Labour had taken, whether they "pandered" to various people or not.
Seriously, you're losing the plot here over Sadiq. He's got skeletons falling out of the closet - and that's without his quota manifesto. The maxim of judging those by the company they keep has shown him in a very poor light.
As so often, the truth comes over like bad fiction.
Is this a claim on par with yesterdays bollox about Shahs statement being changed.
I see Mann had his petrol can on that one yesterday nothing when he was proved to be wrong.
Your party is full of liars, racists, Islamists and anti-Semites.
And your full of ........
Come on. We both know Sean exaggerates. Labour isn't 'full' of liars, racists, Islamists and anti-Semites; it just has rather more than a mainstream party should.
If they go for Mann under false hubris from Milne then you might well see a mass resignation from the shadow cabinet. This could easily move from anther left wing self harm episode to full self destruction.
I wonder how ready the parliamentary party are to react quickly?
You think you've got it tough. Just imagine being a Labour canvasser in Golders Green today.
Well they could canvass for an end to corruption at 788 790 Finchley Road as a good use of their time. After all it's only a 10 to 15 minute walk up from the tube station.
Shah and Ken have been suspended for recent 'discovery' (like it wasn't in our faces since forever) of lifelong prejudices. The Tories and the press must be looking forward with glee to the day Labour tries to restore the whip to them!
Could this be a bigger problem for Cameron than the referendum?
Michael Crick @MichaelLCrick ELECTION EXPENSES: Electoral Commission, CPS & representatives of c15 police forces to hold meeting next week to discuss #C4News allegations
The British have an innate sense of 'fair play' - it's just not cricket to appear to try and engineer an unfair advantage. They also like to support the underdog. Which is why Leave went up post Obama.
Could this be a bigger problem for Cameron than the referendum?
Michael Crick @MichaelLCrick ELECTION EXPENSES: Electoral Commission, CPS & representatives of c15 police forces to hold meeting next week to discuss #C4News allegations
I'd be surprised if this went anywhere TBH, the battle buses were organised nationally rather than by individual constituencies. I can see the rules being clarified in detail by the Electoral Commission though.
As I said, instead of just reaching for the "RACIST" button on the Guardian approved keyboard, have a really hard think about what pandering to Muslims has done to your party and if you think it is heading in the right direction.
Labour supposedly "pandering to Muslims" has nothing to do with the events of the past few days. Ken Livingstone would always have been a racist irrespective of what stances Labour had taken, whether they "pandered" to various people or not.
So Naz Shah and Rupa Huq as well as the vast number of other Muslim anti-Semites in your party are just imaginary? Right.
Clearly you're happier burying your head in the sand over the direction of your party than actually seeing it for what it really is. Is it any wonder that UKIP took more votes off Labour than they did from the Tories last year and are about to the same in Wales next week.
The Tories are down 7% on the election, UKIP up 7% in latest yougov, Labour slightly up
@patrick_kidd: "You've lost it Mr Livingstone, you need help. What are you on?" John Mann MP lays into the hug-a-Hitler former mayor
Hug-A-Hitler...brilliant.
John Mann never one to turn up on TV without a petrol can.
What a complete shambles. Labour right wing out to get the current leadership.
Livingstone must be completely thick at best to bring Adolf into this
This is why Labour is totally and utterly screwed. Instead of dealing with the anti-Semitism that is now rife in parts of the party, members see calls to tackle it as an attack on the leader. Thus, you get the disgusting sight of the disgusting Ken Livingstone defending Adolf Fucking Hitler on the television as a member of the NEC.
Do Labour members begin to understand that they are destroying their party's brand and also consigning the country to year upon year of inept and destructive right wing rule?
It is utterly shameful.
I've just watched the interview and whilst there were bits of it that were un PC and made wonder what Livingstone REALLY thinks 'proper anti-semites don't just hate Israel' I don't think there was a smoking gun. Saying Hitler favoured Zionism in 1932 may just be an historical truth. It's not ludicrous to think that some of the Europeans who favoured a Jewish state were anti-semites who wanted rid of the Jewish population.
Where I think he was on shakier ground was wider anti-semitism within the left. It's obviously a problem as even Diane Abbot admitted years ago and particularly irksome to me given how so much of the modern left has been inspired by anti-discrimination and civil rights. However before the new Labour types start preaching their holier than thou views they should remember the 2005 general election campaign when posters about Michael Howard and Oliver Letwin seemed designed to highlight their Jewishness and Mike O'Brien attacking Evan Harris. The problem may be worse with the large influx of new members but it's not new.
Could this be a bigger problem for Cameron than the referendum?
Michael Crick @MichaelLCrick ELECTION EXPENSES: Electoral Commission, CPS & representatives of c15 police forces to hold meeting next week to discuss #C4News allegations
Excellent. The tory mp for Cornwall north let the cat out of the bag that the battle bus was for specific local campaigning. A national expense my ar $e.
I expect to see a wave of historically awful anti-Semitic tweets and posts being dragged up over the next few days. Shall we have a PB competition to guess the next Labour MP to get a Guido crosshairs?
sorry if it's been mentioned but the "highlight" for me, in a tough field, was when he said that Shah wasn't anti-semitic because anti-semites hate all Jews. Left unsaid, of course, was..."whereas she only hates the ones in Israel..."
The acting Chief Constable of South Yorkshire Police is facing a corruption allegations from her time at Greater Manchester Police
Corruption everywhere you look in UK these days the decline in confidence in government which begin at the start of October last year is gathering steam ....
@patrick_kidd: "You've lost it Mr Livingstone, you need help. What are you on?" John Mann MP lays into the hug-a-Hitler former mayor
Hug-A-Hitler...brilliant.
John Mann never one to turn up on TV without a petrol can.
What a complete shambles. Labour right wing out to get the current leadership.
Livingstone must be completely thick at best to bring Adolf into this
This is why Labour is totally and utterly screwed. Instead of dealing with the anti-Semitism that is now rife in parts of the party, members see calls to tackle it as an attack on the leader. Thus, you get the disgusting sight of the disgusting Ken Livingstone defending Adolf Fucking Hitler on the television as a member of the NEC.
Do Labour members begin to understand that they are destroying their party's brand and also consigning the country to year upon year of inept and destructive right wing rule?
It is utterly shameful.
I've just watched the interview and whilst there were bits of it that were un PC and made wonder what Livingstone REALLY thinks 'proper anti-semites don't just hate Israel' I don't think there was a smoking gun. Saying Hitler favoured Zionism in 1932 may just be an historical truth. It's not ludicrous to think that some of the Europeans who favoured a Jewish state were anti-semites who wanted rid of the Jewish population.
His worst comment was talking about "before Hitler went crazy in 1932", as if he what he wrote in Mein Kampf about how Jews weren't part of the "master race" were all fine and dandy. Talking about "the Israel lobby" also has horrible implications.
Ken let the cat out of the bag back in 2012, when he said something like how Jews don't vote Labour because they're rich. Unfortunately, there is a section of the Left who thinks any group who are stereotypically richer cannot be subjected to "real" discrimination.
sorry if it's been mentioned but the "highlight" for me, in a tough field, was when he said that Shah wasn't anti-semitic because anti-semites hate all Jews. Left unsaid, of course, was..."whereas she only hates the ones in Israel..."
In the previous BBC news interview he said the same thing even more directly. "An anti-Semite hates all Jews, not just the ones in Israel."
sorry if it's been mentioned but the "highlight" for me, in a tough field, was when he said that Shah wasn't anti-semitic because anti-semites hate all Jews. Left unsaid, of course, was..."whereas she only hates the ones in Israel..."
I think Rupa Huq comparing Shah to someone sharing a picture of Boris failing to use a zipline properly was the highlight for me.
Labour's "Moderate" Muslim MPs are looking rather less moderate than they would like us to believe.
The acting Chief Constable of South Yorkshire Police is facing a corruption allegations from her time at Greater Manchester Police
With all this going on at South Yorkshire Police mothers wondering if the (nearly) two year investigation into Sir Cliff Richard and historic allegations of a sexual nature will be brought to a close anytime soon....
The utterly useless and repellent Seamus Milne may just be about to create a martyr and a rallying point for those opposed to the hard left's takeover of Labour. Go on Seamus - suspend John Mann; you know you want to.
Jeremy Corbyn looks suddenly less secure as Labour leader. The chances of him being ousted must have taken a significant uptick today.
An uptick maybe, but hardly a significant one. This won't happen until the Unions finally realise they have backed an unelectable loser ..... probably around 2-3 years hence and 1-2 years before the next GE. For those of a patient disposition, it may be worth backing in combination Ladbrokes' 10/1 against his departure as Labour leader taking place in 2018, staking 54.2% of your investment, and coupling this with staking the remaining 45.8% on him being thrown out leaving during 2019. Should either element prove successful, this bet pays just shy of 5/1 on your combined stake. As ever DYOR.
I expect to see a wave of historically awful anti-Semitic tweets and posts being dragged up over the next few days. Shall we have a PB competition to guess the next Labour MP to get a Guido crosshairs?
Well Rupa Huq has drawn a bullseye on her back after her "explanation" this morning about Shah's anti-Semitic posts.
sorry if it's been mentioned but the "highlight" for me, in a tough field, was when he said that Shah wasn't anti-semitic because anti-semites hate all Jews. Left unsaid, of course, was..."whereas she only hates the ones in Israel..."
I think Rupa Huq comparing Shah to someone sharing a picture of Boris failing to use a zipline properly was the highlight for me.
Labour's "Moderate" Muslim MPs are looking rather less moderate than they would like us to believe.
Let's all be friends, this really isn't anything to be too concerned about...
And Jeremy's innate gentleness of spirit will assuredly bring the party together - it's honestly so refreshing, almost liberating, after all those years wasted in the search for self indulgent majorities. And for what purpose?
The utterly useless and repellent Seamus Milne may just be about to create a martyr and a rallying point for those opposed to the hard left's takeover of Labour. Go on Seamus - suspend John Mann; you know you want to.
Je Suis John
Would John Mann join UKIP if Labour was to suspend him?
I expect to see a wave of historically awful anti-Semitic tweets and posts being dragged up over the next few days. Shall we have a PB competition to guess the next Labour MP to get a Guido crosshairs?
The utterly useless and repellent Seamus Milne may just be about to create a martyr and a rallying point for those opposed to the hard left's takeover of Labour. Go on Seamus - suspend John Mann; you know you want to.
Je Suis John
It really does come to something if I end up supporting / feeling sorry for John Mann..."Free the Anti-Nazi One"....
@patrickwintour: Ken Livingstone also due to appear tonight on East Enders, Master Chef and is flying to Spain for BT Sport's Europa League half time panel.
Let's all be friends, this really isn't anything to be too concerned about...
And Jeremy's innate gentleness of spirit will assuredly bring the party together - it's honestly so refreshing, almost liberating, after all those years wasted in the search for self indulgent majorities. And for what purpose?
Let's all be friends, this really isn't anything to be too concerned about...
And Jeremy's innate gentleness of spirit will assuredly bring the party together - it's honestly so refreshing, almost liberating, after all those years wasted in the search for self indulgent majorities. And for what purpose?
I expect to see a wave of historically awful anti-Semitic tweets and posts being dragged up over the next few days. Shall we have a PB competition to guess the next Labour MP to get a Guido crosshairs?
@patrickwintour: Ken Livingstone also due to appear tonight on East Enders, Master Chef and is flying to Spain for BT Sport's Europa League half time panel.
He'd better not go anywhere near Spain. Bad luck follows him more than when @TSE goes to Anfield!
The utterly useless and repellent Seamus Milne may just be about to create a martyr and a rallying point for those opposed to the hard left's takeover of Labour. Go on Seamus - suspend John Mann; you know you want to.
Je Suis John
Would John Mann join UKIP if Labour was to suspend him?
Hope so.
You cant go round accusing people of being a Nazi sympathizer on live TV.
@patrickwintour: Ken Livingstone also due to appear tonight on East Enders, Master Chef and is flying to Spain for BT Sport's Europa League half time panel.
He'd better not go anywhere near Spain. Bad luck follows him more than when @TSE goes to Anfield!
Jeremy Corbyn looks suddenly less secure as Labour leader. The chances of him being ousted must have taken a significant uptick today.
An uptick maybe, but hardly a significant one. This won't happen until the Unions finally realise they have backed an unelectable loser ..... probably around 2-3 years hence and 1-2 years before the next GE. For those of a patient disposition, it may be worth backing in combination Ladbrokes' 10/1 against his departure as Labour leader taking place in 2018, staking 54.2% of your investment, and coupling this with staking the remaining 45.8% on him being thrown out leaving during 2019. Should either element prove successful, this bet pays just shy of 5/1 on your combined stake. As ever DYOR.
I think that's a very fair shout, and have followed you in on that one.
Jeremy Corbyn looks suddenly less secure as Labour leader. The chances of him being ousted must have taken a significant uptick today.
An uptick maybe, but hardly a significant one. This won't happen until the Unions finally realise they have backed an unelectable loser ..... probably around 2-3 years hence and 1-2 years before the next GE. For those of a patient disposition, it may be worth backing in combination Ladbrokes' 10/1 against his departure as Labour leader taking place in 2018, staking 54.2% of your investment, and coupling this with staking the remaining 45.8% on him being thrown out leaving during 2019*. Should either element prove successful, this bet pays just shy of 5/1 on your combined stake. As ever DYOR.
* at Ladbrokes' odds of 12/1 ..... I should have added.
The utterly useless and repellent Seamus Milne may just be about to create a martyr and a rallying point for those opposed to the hard left's takeover of Labour. Go on Seamus - suspend John Mann; you know you want to.
Je Suis John
After a couple of weeks of screaming at the PM I'm now starting to feel very sorry indeed for the moderate centre left.
Surely a few MPs now have the guts to quit the shad cab, if not today then next week. This isn't going to get any better unless the moderates either stand up to it publically or resign en masse to form SDP2.
The utterly useless and repellent Seamus Milne may just be about to create a martyr and a rallying point for those opposed to the hard left's takeover of Labour. Go on Seamus - suspend John Mann; you know you want to.
Je Suis John
Would John Mann join UKIP if Labour was to suspend him?
Hope so.
You cant go round accusing people of being a Nazi sympathizer on live TV.
If he had said that to me he would be in court.
Sure, but you don't think that Hitler was a Zionist so it wouldn't be true.
Did somebody say something about a civil war in the Tory party....
We are governed by fuckwits. In all parties. Maybe I should get the Patrick Party going....
Please do. I'd not only vote for it but donate money and time to it. But please learn from the UKIP experience and be careful of who you recruit, also be prepared for it to take about 20 years before it starts seeing electoral success.
I don't think Londoners will be changing their vote based on Ken's remarks today.
They might be changing their certainty to vote - all that matters.
I agree. Turnout may decline. That's Labour's fear. And the good people's hopes. Certainly on the streets, some Labourites aren't voting Khan, but I can't quantify.
@patrickwintour: Ken Livingstone also due to appear tonight on East Enders, Master Chef and is flying to Spain for BT Sport's Europa League half time panel.
He'd better not go anywhere near Spain. Bad luck follows him more than when @TSE goes to Anfield!
Let's all be friends, this really isn't anything to be too concerned about...
And Jeremy's innate gentleness of spirit will assuredly bring the party together - it's honestly so refreshing, almost liberating, after all those years wasted in the search for self indulgent majorities. And for what purpose?
I'd like to see the split of the ABs without the C1s, personally.
YouGov don't go into that level of detail.
This is going to sound very condescending, patronising, and elitist of me, but there's a reason Cameron decided to hold the referendum during the European Championships, that split explains it.
TV viewing figures show that televised football is very popular with ABC1s. They make up more than half the audience IIRC.
The utterly useless and repellent Seamus Milne may just be about to create a martyr and a rallying point for those opposed to the hard left's takeover of Labour. Go on Seamus - suspend John Mann; you know you want to.
Je Suis John
After a couple of weeks of screaming at the PM I'm now starting to feel very sorry indeed for the moderate centre left.
Surely a few MPs now have the guts to quit the shad cab, if not today then next week. This isn't going to get any better unless the moderates either stand up to it publically or resign en masse to form SDP2.
No, Southam Observer has this one exactly right: they are going to have to stay put, survive reselection and pray for evisceration (and hope against hope that some of them will be survivors) in 2020. Only then can the far left malignancy be extirpated once and for all, and what is left of the party can rebuild. It needn't be a protracted process.
I wonder how long this investigation into Hug-A-Hitler's conduct will take. It should take all of about 12 minutes i.e. the length of the Daily Politics interview.
How long before all the pieces come together and some very unpleasant views are unearthed from those in Sadiq Khan's inner circle? London is great city and deserves better as its ambassador than Continuity Ken.
The utterly useless and repellent Seamus Milne may just be about to create a martyr and a rallying point for those opposed to the hard left's takeover of Labour. Go on Seamus - suspend John Mann; you know you want to.
Je Suis John
After a couple of weeks of screaming at the PM I'm now starting to feel very sorry indeed for the moderate centre left.
Surely a few MPs now have the guts to quit the shad cab, if not today then next week. This isn't going to get any better unless the moderates either stand up to it publically or resign en masse to form SDP2.
No, Southam Observer has this one exactly right: they are going to have to stay put, survive reelection, pray for evisceration (and hope against hope that some of them will be survivors) in 2020. Only then can the far left malignancy be extirpated once and for all, and what is left of the party can rebuild. It needn't be a protracted process.
After the last dose of militancy there was still a mass worker movement around which to rebuild the centre.
Comments
Clearly you're happier burying your head in the sand over the direction of your party than actually seeing it for what it really is. Is it any wonder that UKIP took more votes off Labour than they did from the Tories last year and are about to the same in Wales next week.
I wonder how ready the parliamentary party are to react quickly?
Congratulations.
why is it that politics is always so dull between general elections. #sigh.
http://i.imgur.com/JNWpe04.jpg
UKIP 3rd.
The acting Chief Constable of South Yorkshire Police is facing a corruption allegations from her time at Greater Manchester Police
Where I think he was on shakier ground was wider anti-semitism within the left. It's obviously a problem as even Diane Abbot admitted years ago and particularly irksome to me given how so much of the modern left has been inspired by anti-discrimination and civil rights. However before the new Labour types start preaching their holier than thou views they should remember the 2005 general election campaign when posters about Michael Howard and Oliver Letwin seemed designed to highlight their Jewishness and Mike O'Brien attacking Evan Harris. The problem may be worse with the large influx of new members but it's not new.
All the leftie fruitcakes on display today, lol
Ken let the cat out of the bag back in 2012, when he said something like how Jews don't vote Labour because they're rich. Unfortunately, there is a section of the Left who thinks any group who are stereotypically richer cannot be subjected to "real" discrimination.
Labour's "Moderate" Muslim MPs are looking rather less moderate than they would like us to believe.
Is it wishful thinking to see electoral benefit from UKIP in this?
She's not happy!
Je Suis John
For those of a patient disposition, it may be worth backing in combination Ladbrokes' 10/1 against his departure as Labour leader taking place in 2018, staking 54.2% of your investment, and coupling this with staking the remaining 45.8% on him being thrown out leaving during 2019.
Should either element prove successful, this bet pays just shy of 5/1 on your combined stake.
As ever DYOR.
Clive Lewis MP Retweeted
Malia Bouattia @MaliaBouattia Apr 24
I’m the new NUS president – and no, I’m not an antisemitic Isis sympathiser | Malia Bouattia http://gu.com/p/4thke/stw @guardian
You cant go round accusing people of being a Nazi sympathizer on live TV.
If he had said that to me he would be in court.
I was there for the Dortmund game.
What a ClusterCorbyn.
@brookebay21: @OwenJones84 @tian_UK @Calderbank I do not believe Ken livingstone is antisemitic it's the right of labour attacking the leadership again
Surely a few MPs now have the guts to quit the shad cab, if not today then next week. This isn't going to get any better unless the moderates either stand up to it publically or resign en masse to form SDP2.
Grimsby
Yes, but where?
Now? not so much.