@tamcohen: Ken Livingstone rang Sky News and said he was 'quoting historical fact and will not give credence to those calling for his resignation'
Livingstone couldn't even get the year of Hitler's election victory correct: it was 1933.
In 1932 there were two elections, the second of which saw the Nazis lose votes, albeit still the largest party.
As ever, he is lying.
Winning most votes could be seen as an election victory. In fact, in political terms, it was a victory. It was the parliament following from the second 1932 election which saw hitler become chancellor (after early-on instability with the fall of Bruning and the brief administration of Schleicher).
The 1933 election was subject to much more intimidation although was just about still democratic.
Remain seem very worried about their 'left flank', hence the union money, this latest Cameron effort, and perhaps their current script of advising Leavers to bang on about immigration (I mean really wtf?), so as to alienate and 'fire up' left wing soft Remainers.
All very encouraging, and it would seem to me that as a response, Leavers need to paint Remainers as basically ugly duplicitous sneering Tories, which as luck would have it, is mostly what they are.
Roger Boyes in the Times yesterday recommended Leavers encourage Marie Le Pen to speak for Brexit. How stupid do they think we are? Obviously, he got dozens of raspberries for that one.
There were a lot of ABC1s at the Spectator debate, which Leave "won", didn't it?
I was at that debate. Leave won 2:1 on the voting card.
Was it a Conservative leaning and politically engaged audience? Yes, but that's precisely why it presages such significance for the internal politics of the Party after the referendum.
I've never seen or heard a politician cheered as loudly as Dan Hannan was. It was deafening.
Any politician who starts his speech by asking to made redundant deserves to raise the roof!! Whatever the result of the referendum Hannan should run for Parliament, he really is a wasted talent as an MEP.
I disagree, Mr. Pit. If Hannan were in the commons than he would be squished by the rules/conventions on Party loyalty. He would be placing himself at the mercy of the whips and the leader. As an MEP he has much more freedom of action.
I doubt that's true - parliament has a place for lively mavericks: the back-benches.
Well, that or the shadow cabinet.
Well when the honorable member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip fails to become the next Prime Minister in a couple of months time, and stalks off in a huff to go and edit some national newspaper, or make a TV show about Rome, there will be a nice rock steady safe seat that Mr Hannan could inspect, not quite as safe as 1st on the SE England MEP List, but no real chance of losing his job.
In this referendum, Cameron has given £9m of taxpayers money to the Remain campaign, and stitched up a deal with the unions so they will give another £2m. I don't know how anyone can believe he is a principled and ethical leader. It's the sort of behaviour you'd expect from a mayor of Naples or Baltimore.
That's worrying. Sounds like those Leftists after the banking crisis. We should abolish the City, but that's okay as we could replace it with football and pop music.
What is the point of people calling for the suspension of Livingstone? He isn't going to change his views. Suspending him gives the impression that he could come back.
You would have thought Chairman Milne would have found somebody else to go on Daily Politics than Red Ken....I don't even dare look at Tim's twitter feed, I presume he has self combusted.
Paradoxically, I guess Ken may never get a knighthood. I've never understood anti-semitism. Should that include arabs? Maybe it's jealousness or/and perverted religiosity. "What a piece of work ..."
You would think so, you would hope so, but with Jezza in charge there is no certainty.
I like "SO" want a decent Labour party, if for nothing else as to be a good opposition to the Tories. Instead we have this rabble of disgusting terrorist extremist anti-Semite sympathizing shits.
What is the point of people calling for the suspension of Livingstone? He isn't going to change his views. Suspending him gives the impression that he could come back.
There should be no way back from this.
Procedural. You'd need to suspend pending a disciplinary hearing.
In this referendum, Cameron has given £9m of taxpayers money to the Remain campaign, and stitched up a deal with the unions so they will give another £2m. I don't know how anyone can believe he is a principled and ethical leader. It's the sort of behaviour you'd expect from a mayor of Naples or Baltimore.
It actually worse than that, because parties are able to spend money on the campaign according to their share of the vote:
Conservatives: £7m, Labour £5.5m, UKIP £4m, Lib Dems £3m, The SNP, Greens, Plaid Cymru and other parties that got less than 5% of votes cast in May will be limited to £700,000.
Since all the parties except UKIP are for Remain, that means in excess of the 7m campaign limit for VLTC and BSE, there is another 18m available to Leave compared to 4m for Remain. So around 23m for Remain compared to around 11m for Leave. Sounds fair.
You would have thought Chairman Milne would have found somebody else to go on Daily Politics than Red Ken....I don't even dare look at Tim's twitter feed, I presume he has self combusted.
There were a lot of ABC1s at the Spectator debate, which Leave "won", didn't it?
Just been listening to that this morning.
Very good debate from all sides, Hannan's speech in particular was of his usual quality, it would be good to see more of him. Also good to hear that they sold out a huge theatre for the debate, over 2k people including our own @Casino_Royale I believe.
He (Hannan), however, was poor on QT, when asked to opine on broader issues. He is the obverse of Nige: very appealing, easy to like, but, sadly, as single-issue obsessed as Farage.
Having heard Dan Hannan orate on two seperate occasions, I thought he was quite quite bonkers. Possibly my only divergence of view with The Rt Rev Professor Nabavi.
That's the first time I've ever heard a Conservative say that about him.
He really isn't - he's very sharp.
I've just watched a video of Dan Hannan glibly claiming that humans will easily be able to adapt to climate change on the basis that people happily live in Helsinki at 5°C and Rio at 31°C. The man's an idiot.
Ken Livingstone says calling for the forced deportation of Jews is "rude".
Yes, that's right Ken: the camp guards were just a bit uppity and disrespectful.
Funnily enough, that was almost exactly the tone of Shah's apology: I'm sorry my words upset you. Not 'what I said was shameful' but that the fault was in injuring someone's feelings rather than the inherent unjustness of the comment.
In this referendum, Cameron has given £9m of taxpayers money to the Remain campaign, and stitched up a deal with the unions so they will give another £2m. I don't know how anyone can believe he is a principled and ethical leader. It's the sort of behaviour you'd expect from a mayor of Naples or Baltimore.
It actually worse than that, because parties are able to spend money on the campaign according to their share of the vote:
Conservatives: £7m, Labour £5.5m, UKIP £4m, Lib Dems £3m, The SNP, Greens, Plaid Cymru and other parties that got less than 5% of votes cast in May will be limited to £700,000.
Since all the parties except UKIP are for Remain, that means in excess of the 7m campaign limit for VLTC and BSE, there is another 18m available to Leave compared to 4m for Remain. So around 23m for Remain compared to around 11m for Leave. Sounds fair.
But the Conservative party is neutral so presumably will not spend any of the £7m.
Don't worry, I'm sure they'll have him back on This Week before too long.
I'd hope not.
They always have radical nutters on that show.
Whilst I wasn't exactly happy about Diane Abbott receiving License payer's money for her 'fee', Ken Livingstone's remarks today and previously are on a different level to anything "West Indian mums are better" Abbott has said.
In this referendum, Cameron has given £9m of taxpayers money to the Remain campaign, and stitched up a deal with the unions so they will give another £2m. I don't know how anyone can believe he is a principled and ethical leader. It's the sort of behaviour you'd expect from a mayor of Naples or Baltimore.
It actually worse than that, because parties are able to spend money on the campaign according to their share of the vote:
Conservatives: £7m, Labour £5.5m, UKIP £4m, Lib Dems £3m, The SNP, Greens, Plaid Cymru and other parties that got less than 5% of votes cast in May will be limited to £700,000.
Since all the parties except UKIP are for Remain, that means in excess of the 7m campaign limit for VLTC and BSE, there is another 18m available to Leave compared to 4m for Remain. So around 23m for Remain compared to around 11m for Leave. Sounds fair.
But the Conservative party is neutral so presumably will not spend any of the £7m.
Patrick Minford has probably given "remain" the most ammunition yet.
Yup, and to think all those Leavers ramping up Patrick Minford have gone curiously quiet.
Minford's seems a perfectly Thatcherite position to me - strip away the artificial EU 'protections' and let British manufacturing sink or swim. If Leavers truly believe they are Maggie's heirs they should be backing him to the hilt.
Dan Hodges @DPJHodges 1m1 minute ago Labour MP and senior Labour NEC member arguing on live national television about whether Hitler was a Zionist. This is actually happening.
In a way, the extreme nature of Livingstone's comments make it easier for Corbyn. They are so bad it's clearly just an instant sacking. It can be worse when they're bad but not so bad the leadership is tempted to go easy on them.
On Livingstone, this has to end in expulsion. Anything else means that Labour can reasonably be charged as institutionally anti-Semitic.
I agree. But that then leaves a large hole at the centre of the Corbynite leadership. Ken Livingstone is their intellectual godfather.
This is a disaster for Jeremy Corbyn on four separate levels:
1) Crashing the current election round 2) Extending the impression that Labour is institutionally anti-Semitic 3) Removing one of the few heavyweights from his inner circle 4) Giving his party opponents a cause to rally around that can't just be brushed aside as the whining of sour losers
On Livingstone, this has to end in expulsion. Anything else means that Labour can reasonably be charged as institutionally anti-Semitic.
I agree. But that then leaves a large hole at the centre of the Corbynite leadership. Ken Livingstone is their intellectual godfather.
This is a disaster for Jeremy Corbyn on four separate levels:
1) Crashing the current election round 2) Extending the impression that Labour is institutionally anti-Semitic 3) Removing one of the few heavyweights from his inner circle 4) Giving his party opponents a cause to rally around that can't just be brushed aside as the whining of sour losers
You know as a party you are in trouble if Hug-A-Hitler is you "intellectual godfather"...
@feedthedrummer: The Labour Party is going to have to wash itself with bleach just to be able to walk past plant life without it dying after this interview.
There were a lot of ABC1s at the Spectator debate, which Leave "won", didn't it?
Just been listening to that this morning.
Very good debate from all sides, Hannan's speech in particular was of his usual quality, it would be good to see more of him. Also good to hear that they sold out a huge theatre for the debate, over 2k people including our own @Casino_Royale I believe.
He (Hannan), however, was poor on QT, when asked to opine on broader issues. He is the obverse of Nige: very appealing, easy to like, but, sadly, as single-issue obsessed as Farage.
Having heard Dan Hannan orate on two seperate occasions, I thought he was quite quite bonkers. Possibly my only divergence of view with The Rt Rev Professor Nabavi.
That's the first time I've ever heard a Conservative say that about him.
He really isn't - he's very sharp.
I've just watched a video of Dan Hannan glibly claiming that humans will easily be able to adapt to climate change on the basis that people happily live in Helsinki at 5°C and Rio at 31°C. The man's an idiot.
No he isn't. The point he was making is that humans are infinitely adaptable to climates and that it might make more economic sense to adapt ourselves to the inevitable rather than try and cripple the global economy in a futile attempt to try to prevent it entirely. And then he does go on to say sensible environmental protections are a must have.
That was probably the most rivetting ten minutes of political TV that I have ever seen in my life. Beautiful.
So under Jahadi Jez, we have had Chairman Mao's Little Red Book, Hug a Suicide Bomber and all the stuff about Hitler...You can't believe it is the same party that under Blair / Bad Al were masters of media manipulation and message.
I cannot believe what I have just seen what I have seen on live TV.
This is Labour's blackest day in years, possibly decades. Ken is not a lone maverick, he spouts out ideas that clearly have currency in parts of the hard left. This is the hard left that Miliband let back into the party with his bonkers £3 support and vote plan.
On Livingstone, this has to end in expulsion. Anything else means that Labour can reasonably be charged as institutionally anti-Semitic.
I agree. But that then leaves a large hole at the centre of the Corbynite leadership. Ken Livingstone is their intellectual godfather.
This is a disaster for Jeremy Corbyn on four separate levels:
1) Crashing the current election round 2) Extending the impression that Labour is institutionally anti-Semitic 3) Removing one of the few heavyweights from his inner circle 4) Giving his party opponents a cause to rally around that can't just be brushed aside as the whining of sour losers
The right wing of Labour have done a great job here of beginning to get rid of Jezza - they are pulling down his support rather than go straight to the headshot.
Comments
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/725611301968420864
"Hitler was a bit of a bleeding-hearted liberal."
The 1933 election was subject to much more intimidation although was just about still democratic.
https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/725640479367385088
Shame as it undermines the real criticism that needs leveling at Livingstone and Corbyn
Thing is, Livingstone has become such a spoof of himself it's difficult to tell.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/28/ken-livingstone-accuses-israel-lobby-of-orchestrating-a-campaign/
He has to be finished now, surely. Mocking a guys mental health condition was horrid, but this is a totally different level.
Jarvis, Hunt, Liz Kendall join calls to dump Ken.
Come Labour, this man shouldn't be anywhere near your party, let alone involved in consultation on national defence. Get rid of him.
There should be no way back from this.
11 Labour MPs calling for his resignation
I've never understood anti-semitism. Should that include arabs?
Maybe it's jealousness or/and perverted religiosity.
"What a piece of work ..."
Am amazed that Clegg has stayed silent for so long. Will he take opportunity to speak.
I like "SO" want a decent Labour party, if for nothing else as to be a good opposition to the Tories. Instead we have this rabble of disgusting terrorist extremist anti-Semite sympathizing shits.
Conservatives: £7m, Labour £5.5m, UKIP £4m, Lib Dems £3m, The SNP, Greens, Plaid Cymru and other parties that got less than 5% of votes cast in May will be limited to £700,000.
Since all the parties except UKIP are for Remain, that means in excess of the 7m campaign limit for VLTC and BSE, there is another 18m available to Leave compared to 4m for Remain. So around 23m for Remain compared to around 11m for Leave. Sounds fair.
I agree with Nick.
https://twitter.com/GOsborneGenius/with_replies
http://order-order.com/2016/04/28/watch-john-mann-tells-ken-youre-a-fking-disgrace/
John Mann: Ken Livingstone is a worse historian than he is a politician.
Maybe a combination of both?
I really need to get on with some work, but this is blockbuster stuff.
Labour MP and senior Labour NEC member arguing on live national television about whether Hitler was a Zionist. This is actually happening.
This is a disaster for Jeremy Corbyn on four separate levels:
1) Crashing the current election round
2) Extending the impression that Labour is institutionally anti-Semitic
3) Removing one of the few heavyweights from his inner circle
4) Giving his party opponents a cause to rally around that can't just be brushed aside as the whining of sour losers
Idiot? You're not fit to wipe his shoes.
This is Labour's blackest day in years, possibly decades. Ken is not a lone maverick, he spouts out ideas that clearly have currency in parts of the hard left. This is the hard left that Miliband let back into the party with his bonkers £3 support and vote plan.
What you reap.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/725646754213941248
Livingstone:-
"Look, Hitler wasn't anti-Semitic. I've got a set of his Bar Mitzvah photographs to prove it."