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Lessons from the worst episodes of our history – politicalbetting.com

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  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,762
    isam said:

    What a great ad for a Mental Health Campaign

    https://youtu.be/VLtnaeIVh2Q

    Wow. And well done him.
  • RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nice touch, but why is the EU flag still there?

    Our flags at @ScotParl are flying at half-mast today as a mark of respect for Sir David Amess MP.

    https://twitter.com/ScotParl/status/1449046817262510089?s=20

    Could be an old photo taken off the disc.
    It's the Council of Europe flag, this came up a few months ago IIRC.

    The UK is still a member.
    Phew, all the 'Hate the EU, love Europe' lads can rest easy.
    We all know why it's there, and it's got nothing to do with the Council of Europe.
    I applaud your internatonalist approach of caring about what flags countries other than your own fly outside their parliament.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nice touch, but why is the EU flag still there?

    Our flags at @ScotParl are flying at half-mast today as a mark of respect for Sir David Amess MP.

    https://twitter.com/ScotParl/status/1449046817262510089?s=20

    Could be an old photo taken off the disc.
    It's the Council of Europe flag, this came up a few months ago IIRC.

    The UK is still a member.
    Phew, all the 'Hate the EU, love Europe' lads can rest easy.
    We all know why it's there, and it's got nothing to do with the Council of Europe.
    I applaud your internatonalist approach of caring about what flags countries other than your own fly outside their parliament.
    Did I say I cared?
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nice touch, but why is the EU flag still there?

    Our flags at @ScotParl are flying at half-mast today as a mark of respect for Sir David Amess MP.

    https://twitter.com/ScotParl/status/1449046817262510089?s=20

    Could be an old photo taken off the disc.
    It's the Council of Europe flag, this came up a few months ago IIRC.

    The UK is still a member.
    Phew, all the 'Hate the EU, love Europe' lads can rest easy.
    Turns out I was wrong.

    The European flag is to continue flying outside the Scottish Parliament beyond Brexit after MSPs voted to keep it up.

    Holyrood's management group had planned to lower the flag at 23:00 on Friday, the moment the UK leaves the EU.

    However MSPs voted by 63 to 54 to overturn this decision after the Scottish government forced a debate.

    Presiding Officer Ken Macintosh warned ministers not to politicise the issue, saying the flags flown at Holyrood "reflect our relationships in law".

    The Conservatives, Labour and the Lib Dems argued that the "non-political" decision of the Parliamentary Corporate Body should be respected, but SNP and Green MSPs united to "direct" the group to keep the flag up.

    The Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body (SPCB) - a management group made up of an MSP from each of Holyrood's parties - had made the decision to remove the flag after Brexit, but to fly it each year on Europe Day.

    However this has now been overturned after a brief but heated debate in the chamber, with the group pledging to abide by the result of the vote.

    The motion passed by MSPs noted that Scotland and the UK would remain in the Council of Europe, and said the flag should stay up "as a sign of support and solidarity with those EU nationals who have made Scotland their home".

    Leading for the government, External Affairs Secretary Fiona Hyslop said MSPs should "stand firm in solidarity with all the EU citizens who live in Scotland" and keep the flag flying "as a practical demonstration of our regret" about Brexit.

    She said ministers did not take the prospect of "directing" the parliamentary authorities lightly, and said "it should not happen regularly" - but said "I do not believe their decision reflects the views of parliament as a whole, and nor do I believe that the decision could be non-political".

    Green MSP Ross Greer echoed that point, saying there was "no way to make the binary choice between keeping the European flag up and taking it down without that choice being political".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-51294445
    Excellent, that gives the PBTories something to talk about now that they can't discuss you know what. I'm off now, got a Philip Kerr novel to finish.
    Make sure you come back tomorrow, I've got a Scotland thread and subsamples feature heavily.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nice touch, but why is the EU flag still there?

    Our flags at @ScotParl are flying at half-mast today as a mark of respect for Sir David Amess MP.

    https://twitter.com/ScotParl/status/1449046817262510089?s=20

    Could be an old photo taken off the disc.
    It's the Council of Europe flag, this came up a few months ago IIRC.

    The UK is still a member.
    Phew, all the 'Hate the EU, love Europe' lads can rest easy.
    We all know why it's there, and it's got nothing to do with the Council of Europe.
    I applaud your internatonalist approach of caring about what flags countries other than your own fly outside their parliament.
    Did I say I cared?
    No posty, no caree is my general rule of t'internet.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,136

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nice touch, but why is the EU flag still there?

    Our flags at @ScotParl are flying at half-mast today as a mark of respect for Sir David Amess MP.

    https://twitter.com/ScotParl/status/1449046817262510089?s=20

    Could be an old photo taken off the disc.
    It's the Council of Europe flag, this came up a few months ago IIRC.

    The UK is still a member.
    Phew, all the 'Hate the EU, love Europe' lads can rest easy.
    Turns out I was wrong.

    The European flag is to continue flying outside the Scottish Parliament beyond Brexit after MSPs voted to keep it up.

    Holyrood's management group had planned to lower the flag at 23:00 on Friday, the moment the UK leaves the EU.

    However MSPs voted by 63 to 54 to overturn this decision after the Scottish government forced a debate.

    Presiding Officer Ken Macintosh warned ministers not to politicise the issue, saying the flags flown at Holyrood "reflect our relationships in law".

    The Conservatives, Labour and the Lib Dems argued that the "non-political" decision of the Parliamentary Corporate Body should be respected, but SNP and Green MSPs united to "direct" the group to keep the flag up.

    The Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body (SPCB) - a management group made up of an MSP from each of Holyrood's parties - had made the decision to remove the flag after Brexit, but to fly it each year on Europe Day.

    However this has now been overturned after a brief but heated debate in the chamber, with the group pledging to abide by the result of the vote.

    The motion passed by MSPs noted that Scotland and the UK would remain in the Council of Europe, and said the flag should stay up "as a sign of support and solidarity with those EU nationals who have made Scotland their home".

    Leading for the government, External Affairs Secretary Fiona Hyslop said MSPs should "stand firm in solidarity with all the EU citizens who live in Scotland" and keep the flag flying "as a practical demonstration of our regret" about Brexit.

    She said ministers did not take the prospect of "directing" the parliamentary authorities lightly, and said "it should not happen regularly" - but said "I do not believe their decision reflects the views of parliament as a whole, and nor do I believe that the decision could be non-political".

    Green MSP Ross Greer echoed that point, saying there was "no way to make the binary choice between keeping the European flag up and taking it down without that choice being political".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-51294445
    Excellent, that gives the PBTories something to talk about now that they can't discuss you know what. I'm off now, got a Philip Kerr novel to finish.
    Make sure you come back tomorrow, I've got a Scotland thread and subsamples feature heavily.
    Ooh, thanks; just don't get yourself kicked off PB.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nice touch, but why is the EU flag still there?

    Our flags at @ScotParl are flying at half-mast today as a mark of respect for Sir David Amess MP.

    https://twitter.com/ScotParl/status/1449046817262510089?s=20

    Could be an old photo taken off the disc.
    It's the Council of Europe flag, this came up a few months ago IIRC.

    The UK is still a member.
    Phew, all the 'Hate the EU, love Europe' lads can rest easy.
    We all know why it's there, and it's got nothing to do with the Council of Europe.
    I applaud your internatonalist approach of caring about what flags countries other than your own fly outside their parliament.
    Did I say I cared?
    No posty, no caree is my general rule of t'internet.
    Where's the fun in that? I think it's perfectly fine to comment on things you don't feel particularly strongly about. In this case it is really obvious why it is being done, and it has nothing to do with the Council of Europe.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    edited October 2021

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nice touch, but why is the EU flag still there?

    Our flags at @ScotParl are flying at half-mast today as a mark of respect for Sir David Amess MP.

    https://twitter.com/ScotParl/status/1449046817262510089?s=20

    Could be an old photo taken off the disc.
    It's the Council of Europe flag, this came up a few months ago IIRC.

    The UK is still a member.
    Phew, all the 'Hate the EU, love Europe' lads can rest easy.
    We all know why it's there, and it's got nothing to do with the Council of Europe.
    I applaud your internatonalist approach of caring about what flags countries other than your own fly outside their parliament.
    Did I say I cared?
    No posty, no caree is my general rule of t'internet.
    Really? I do hope you apply that universally.

    Can't say I really agree, as 'care' can mean quite a few things, from mild interest to deep connection, or just out of boredom.
  • kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nice touch, but why is the EU flag still there?

    Our flags at @ScotParl are flying at half-mast today as a mark of respect for Sir David Amess MP.

    https://twitter.com/ScotParl/status/1449046817262510089?s=20

    Could be an old photo taken off the disc.
    It's the Council of Europe flag, this came up a few months ago IIRC.

    The UK is still a member.
    Phew, all the 'Hate the EU, love Europe' lads can rest easy.
    We all know why it's there, and it's got nothing to do with the Council of Europe.
    I applaud your internatonalist approach of caring about what flags countries other than your own fly outside their parliament.
    Did I say I cared?
    No posty, no caree is my general rule of t'internet.
    Really? I do hope you apply that universally.
    You pm me a list of the things you think I care about and I'll see what I can do.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nice touch, but why is the EU flag still there?

    Our flags at @ScotParl are flying at half-mast today as a mark of respect for Sir David Amess MP.

    https://twitter.com/ScotParl/status/1449046817262510089?s=20

    Could be an old photo taken off the disc.
    It's the Council of Europe flag, this came up a few months ago IIRC.

    The UK is still a member.
    Phew, all the 'Hate the EU, love Europe' lads can rest easy.
    We all know why it's there, and it's got nothing to do with the Council of Europe.
    I applaud your internatonalist approach of caring about what flags countries other than your own fly outside their parliament.
    Did I say I cared?
    No posty, no caree is my general rule of t'internet.
    Really? I do hope you apply that universally.
    You pm me a list of the things you think I care about and I'll see what I can do.
    I didn't have a list to mind, just presuming you are fair minded and so apply the principle to yourself if you apply it to others.

    Not everything is an attack, you know.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,957
    edited October 2021
    If you thought Salah's goal against City was goal of the season then his goal against Watford is even better.


    I need a cigarette after that, that's how good it is.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,762

    This morning I laid a wreath in memory of Sir David Amess MP, a much loved colleague and friend.

    My thoughts are with his wife, children and friends.


    https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1449337951612248066?s=20

    On that thread from Secretary Antony Blinken:

    "The United States sends its deepest condolences to the family, friends, and colleagues of Sir David Amess of the United Kingdom, a dedicated public servant and lawmaker. An attack on elected officials is an attack on democracy."

    Well, quite.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,008
    I don't have time to go into this in detail (just about to head out) but my wife has had several miscarriages @MaxPB - we were both fertile and just unlucky; if the fetus isn't right and not developing properly then the body rejects it - which is probably right to be honest.

    Is the word heartbreak? I don't think so. They happened to us between 8-12 weeks when the fetus is still very tiny, and barely more than an egg sac on one occasion - in fact, that's why she miscarried because it was just an egg sac.

    The feelings were more disappointment, embarrassment, irritation and fear that we might not succeed, but not heartbreak; it's just you've got excited and your hopes were dashed. We didnt have any desire to go all American and broadcast it to the world and just kept it private with very close friends and family, which is how we like it.

    FWIW, I think there's a world of difference between a miscarriage in the very early stages and losing a baby at 7 or 8 months that has a serious deformity, which happened to my elder sister, or losing a baby in the first 24 hours after its born, which happened to an ex of mine, which was genuinely heartbreaking.

    Of course, we have successfully had a child now, and are very much over it. That made us feel much better. But until you do you will feel the fear and worry if each pregnancy is going to "stick". If you've had 3 or more I'd seek advice. Otherwise if it's just two I'd just keep trying. It might sound callous to say so but to some extent it can also be a bit of a numbers game and lots of things need to go right to produce a healthy child.

    Please feel free to VM if you want to talk more.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164

    If you thought Salah's goal against City was goal of the season then his goal against Watford is even better.


    I need a cigarette after that, that's how good it is.

    Lol, just turned it off. Watford not exactly benefiting from a new manager bounce. Mind you, that must ware off after the tenth change.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,957
    edited October 2021
    tlg86 said:

    If you thought Salah's goal against City was goal of the season then his goal against Watford is even better.


    I need a cigarette after that, that's how good it is.

    Lol, just turned it off. Watford not exactly benefiting from a new manager bounce. Mind you, that must ware off after the tenth change.
    There was a stat earlier on this week, it was the sixth anniversary of Klopp becoming Liverpool manager, in that period Watford have had nine changes of manager.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,008
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nice touch, but why is the EU flag still there?

    Our flags at @ScotParl are flying at half-mast today as a mark of respect for Sir David Amess MP.

    https://twitter.com/ScotParl/status/1449046817262510089?s=20

    Could be an old photo taken off the disc.
    It's the Council of Europe flag, this came up a few months ago IIRC.

    The UK is still a member.
    Both true and funny, and they can fly what they like, but come on, as RobD suggests what are the chances anyone flies that flag because it is the Council of Europe (not to be confused with the European Council) flag? As institutions go it's a bit under the radar. If there is reference to EU Nationals at any point that gives the game away, since there'd be no need to be so specific if it was really about the Council.
    The EU has culturally appropriated it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    edited October 2021
    Businesses, I know you've got a lot of other stuff on at the moment but you really need to start war-gaming right now.



  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Pff. Other one was better - he had to hit that one on his right foot, which I didn't know he could.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,008
    On topic, a truly excellent article by @Quincel - I think I agree with all of it.

    In my experience individual people generally want a quiet life, follow the path of least resistant and respond to what they are incentivised (or not) to respond to.

    I've done quite a bit of work on catastrophic risk in the past. If the structures and systems aren't in place to make joining the dots and doing the right thing straightforward (together with very good internal and external assurance) then it will just be too much effort and risk for most people, and that's when people just conform and catastrophes slip through the net.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Pulpstar said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Frieze sitrep 2. You’re meant to wear a mask but the Brits and Italians are abandoning them.

    A guy next to me has just bought an amazing Chinese artwork for £29,000

    How can anyone possibly get $29,000 worth of pleasure out of a painting? It is just vanity and showing off at that point. Seems obscene to spend so much on something with no practical use when you think how many malaria nets that could buy.
    Tbh 29k isn't that much for a decent painting, the one I own only cost a few hundred but fits my house very well and well I enjoy it
    A few hundred is a reasonable price for a painting. It isn't the average person's yearly salary.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    kle4 said:

    Pff. Other one was better - he had to hit that one on his right foot, which I didn't know he could.
    Better opposition too, and that does matter in these debates.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    JBriskin3 said:

    Aslan said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Bad taste Slater deletes

    Murdo Fraser
    @murdo_fraser
    I see that ⁦
    @lornaslater
    ⁩ has now deleted her racist tweet. This is what a Scottish Govt Minister thought was appropriate:

    https://twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1449339943722102784?s=20

    I don't see the racism there?
    Xenophobic might be more correct but she deleted the tweet which shows she knows she was in the wrong.
    I don't even see xenophobia. She said another political party was bad and asked why the English voted for them. Neither of the two parts of that point are xenophobic.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    edited October 2021

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nice touch, but why is the EU flag still there?

    Our flags at @ScotParl are flying at half-mast today as a mark of respect for Sir David Amess MP.

    https://twitter.com/ScotParl/status/1449046817262510089?s=20

    Could be an old photo taken off the disc.
    It's the Council of Europe flag, this came up a few months ago IIRC.

    The UK is still a member.
    Both true and funny, and they can fly what they like, but come on, as RobD suggests what are the chances anyone flies that flag because it is the Council of Europe (not to be confused with the European Council) flag? As institutions go it's a bit under the radar. If there is reference to EU Nationals at any point that gives the game away, since there'd be no need to be so specific if it was really about the Council.
    The EU has culturally appropriated it.
    To be fair I think it's a solid flag. Simple but striking.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Carnyx said:

    Nice touch, but why is the EU flag still there?

    Our flags at @ScotParl are flying at half-mast today as a mark of respect for Sir David Amess MP.

    https://twitter.com/ScotParl/status/1449046817262510089?s=20

    Could be an old photo taken off the disc. Edit: like petrol queues and supermarket shelves.
    No, there was a vote. Scottish parliament decided to keep the flag of europe up.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    Aslan said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Aslan said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Bad taste Slater deletes

    Murdo Fraser
    @murdo_fraser
    I see that ⁦
    @lornaslater
    ⁩ has now deleted her racist tweet. This is what a Scottish Govt Minister thought was appropriate:

    https://twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1449339943722102784?s=20

    I don't see the racism there?
    Xenophobic might be more correct but she deleted the tweet which shows she knows she was in the wrong.
    I don't even see xenophobia. She said another political party was bad and asked why the English voted for them. Neither of the two parts of that point are xenophobic.
    Because 25% of Scottish voters (never mind the Welsh) voted Tory in 2019.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,735
    It would appear that Matt Hancock has been sacked by the UN before he could save Africa because the covid report found that he didn’t save the U.K. https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1449313761622380550
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    tlg86 said:

    Aslan said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Aslan said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Bad taste Slater deletes

    Murdo Fraser
    @murdo_fraser
    I see that ⁦
    @lornaslater
    ⁩ has now deleted her racist tweet. This is what a Scottish Govt Minister thought was appropriate:

    https://twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1449339943722102784?s=20

    I don't see the racism there?
    Xenophobic might be more correct but she deleted the tweet which shows she knows she was in the wrong.
    I don't even see xenophobia. She said another political party was bad and asked why the English voted for them. Neither of the two parts of that point are xenophobic.
    Because 25% of Scottish voters (never mind the Welsh) voted Tory in 2019.
    Which means the Scots, as a group, didn't vote for them. In the same way as the Brits, as a group, didn't vote for Remain.
  • tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pff. Other one was better - he had to hit that one on his right foot, which I didn't know he could.
    Better opposition too, and that does matter in these debates.
    And the context of the matches as well.

    Harry Kane is a flat track bully.

    He's played in the final of Champions League, the Euros, and the Rumbelows Cup and never scored.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Businesses, I know you've got a lot of other stuff on at the moment but you really need to start war-gaming right now.



    Very Trumpish comments about a trade war.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nice touch, but why is the EU flag still there?

    Our flags at @ScotParl are flying at half-mast today as a mark of respect for Sir David Amess MP.

    https://twitter.com/ScotParl/status/1449046817262510089?s=20

    Could be an old photo taken off the disc.
    It's the Council of Europe flag, this came up a few months ago IIRC.

    The UK is still a member.
    Both true and funny, and they can fly what they like, but come on, as RobD suggests what are the chances anyone flies that flag because it is the Council of Europe (not to be confused with the European Council) flag? As institutions go it's a bit under the radar. If there is reference to EU Nationals at any point that gives the game away, since there'd be no need to be so specific if it was really about the Council.
    The EU has culturally appropriated it.
    To be fair I think it's a solid flag. Simple but striking.
    The visual elements are good but the colours are naff.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Scott_xP said:

    It would appear that Matt Hancock has been sacked by the UN before he could save Africa because the covid report found that he didn’t save the U.K. https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1449313761622380550

    The italic bit is your own commentary?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    edited October 2021
    Aslan said:

    tlg86 said:

    Aslan said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Aslan said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Bad taste Slater deletes

    Murdo Fraser
    @murdo_fraser
    I see that ⁦
    @lornaslater
    ⁩ has now deleted her racist tweet. This is what a Scottish Govt Minister thought was appropriate:

    https://twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1449339943722102784?s=20

    I don't see the racism there?
    Xenophobic might be more correct but she deleted the tweet which shows she knows she was in the wrong.
    I don't even see xenophobia. She said another political party was bad and asked why the English voted for them. Neither of the two parts of that point are xenophobic.
    Because 25% of Scottish voters (never mind the Welsh) voted Tory in 2019.
    Which means the Scots, as a group, didn't vote for them. In the same way as the Brits, as a group, didn't vote for Remain.
    They did, didn't they, otherwise the UK wouldn't have left?

    Edit: sorry, totally misread that!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    Aslan said:

    tlg86 said:

    Aslan said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Aslan said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Bad taste Slater deletes

    Murdo Fraser
    @murdo_fraser
    I see that ⁦
    @lornaslater
    ⁩ has now deleted her racist tweet. This is what a Scottish Govt Minister thought was appropriate:

    https://twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1449339943722102784?s=20

    I don't see the racism there?
    Xenophobic might be more correct but she deleted the tweet which shows she knows she was in the wrong.
    I don't even see xenophobia. She said another political party was bad and asked why the English voted for them. Neither of the two parts of that point are xenophobic.
    Because 25% of Scottish voters (never mind the Welsh) voted Tory in 2019.
    Which means the Scots, as a group, didn't vote for them. In the same way as the Brits, as a group, didn't vote for Remain.
    But that 25% of the vote gave the Tories 6 seats so Scotland contributes to the Tory rule at Westminster. As TSE likes to point out, Scotland kept the Tories in power in 1992.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pff. Other one was better - he had to hit that one on his right foot, which I didn't know he could.
    Better opposition too, and that does matter in these debates.
    And the context of the matches as well.

    Harry Kane is a flat track bully.

    He's played in the final of Champions League, the Euros, and the Rumbelows Cup and never scored.
    I wouldn’t say that’s proof of him being a flat track bully. After all, a certain Thierry Henry had an appalling record in cup finals (partly due to disgraceful cheating by Stephane Henchoz).

    I’d say Romelu Lukaku is a flat track bully given his record against the better clubs in England (compared with someone like Jamie Vardy, who’s the complete opposite).
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    This amusing:
    France has noted that the US president, Joe Biden, made substantive concessions in the after the Aukus furore and assured Macron that similar discourtesy would not be repeated, but Johnson made no comparable proposals in his make-up call and instead promoted Adm Sir Tony Radakin, the British official most intimately involved in breaking up the French submarine contract, to chief of the defence staff.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/16/perfidious-albion-why-french-faith-in-boris-johnson-has-nosedived

    I thought the whole thing was US and Australia driven and the UK was just a weak vassal that had no relevance to the deal? But now we need to make up and offer concessions for the stuff we didn't do? The French are a joke.
  • tlg86 said:

    Aslan said:

    tlg86 said:

    Aslan said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Aslan said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Bad taste Slater deletes

    Murdo Fraser
    @murdo_fraser
    I see that ⁦
    @lornaslater
    ⁩ has now deleted her racist tweet. This is what a Scottish Govt Minister thought was appropriate:

    https://twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1449339943722102784?s=20

    I don't see the racism there?
    Xenophobic might be more correct but she deleted the tweet which shows she knows she was in the wrong.
    I don't even see xenophobia. She said another political party was bad and asked why the English voted for them. Neither of the two parts of that point are xenophobic.
    Because 25% of Scottish voters (never mind the Welsh) voted Tory in 2019.
    Which means the Scots, as a group, didn't vote for them. In the same way as the Brits, as a group, didn't vote for Remain.
    But that 25% of the vote gave the Tories 6 seats so Scotland contributes to the Tory rule at Westminster. As TSE likes to point out, Scotland kept the Tories in power in 1992.
    And also kept the Tories in power in 2017.

    Without those 12 Tory gains in Scotland I reckon we'd have a coalition of chaos a rainbow alliance.

    Possibly the end of Brexit for that Parliament or the softest of soft Brexit.
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pff. Other one was better - he had to hit that one on his right foot, which I didn't know he could.
    Better opposition too, and that does matter in these debates.
    And the context of the matches as well.

    Harry Kane is a flat track bully.

    He's played in the final of Champions League, the Euros, and the Rumbelows Cup and never scored.
    I wouldn’t say that’s proof of him being a flat track bully. After all, a certain Thierry Henry had an appalling record in cup finals (partly due to disgraceful cheating by Stephane Henchoz).

    I’d say Romelu Lukaku is a flat track bully given his record against the better clubs in England (compared with someone like Jamie Vardy, who’s the complete opposite).
    Agree on Lukaku and Vardy.

    Henry's greatness isn't in doubt given all the honours he won.

    FYI - Don't talk about Henry and handballs within earshot of any Irish people.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Also this bit:
    France has also rallied the support of 11 EU maritime nations to demand that the UK honour the spirit and letter of the 2019 withdrawal agreement on fishing rights. Their joint statement claims that British demands that boats smaller than 12 metres produce GPS records to show whether they have previously fished in its waters is impossible and outside the agreement. Reprisals are due to be announced in the next week, the French have vowed.
    So, entirely contrary to the terms of the Future Relationship agreement, France wants boats with no evidence at all of historically fishing in our waters to have rights here? And it's the British that are pernicious?

    The reality is that the reason a boat wouldn't have records is that they were previously illegally fishing over quota and didn't want a paper trail if the authorities stopped them.
  • kle4 said:

    Businesses, I know you've got a lot of other stuff on at the moment but you really need to start war-gaming right now.



    Very Trumpish comments about a trade war.
    Not really when the other party is threatening a trade war.

    The UK is entirely within its rights to invoke Article 16 if there's any trade diversion etc happening which everyone agrees is happening. So if they do that and then a trade war is threatened then who's really being Trumpish?
  • Absolutely fantastic result against Watford. Five stars.
  • Just discovered there's a Prince Andrew Court in Cambridge.

    And there was I thinking we'd never see him in court .. ;)

    How do you think we feel, a whole fcuking country dedicated to him being a saint?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164

    Absolutely fantastic result against Watford. Five stars.

    I was looking at the 538 model and they had Liverpool ahead of Chelsea, which is contrary to the betting. I agree with 538.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,232
    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers
  • You'd think the first thing a person would do with a new job offer is check if you could continue with your current one, then you remember it's Hancock.

    Sam Coates Sky
    @SamCoatesSky
    31m
    I understand a major issue with the appointment is the UN can’t appoint sitting Parliamentarians, and since Matt Hancock wasn’t going to resign his seat this was a deal breaker


  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,787
    Aslan said:

    Also this bit:

    France has also rallied the support of 11 EU maritime nations to demand that the UK honour the spirit and letter of the 2019 withdrawal agreement on fishing rights.

    Denmark is a notable omission from the list of countries supporting France on this.
  • Just discovered there's a Prince Andrew Court in Cambridge.

    And there was I thinking we'd never see him in court .. ;)

    How do you think we feel, a whole fcuking country dedicated to him being a saint?
    I thought that was Russia :lol:
  • You'd think the first thing a person would do with a new job offer is check if you could continue with your current one, then you remember it's Hancock.

    Sam Coates Sky
    @SamCoatesSky
    31m
    I understand a major issue with the appointment is the UN can’t appoint sitting Parliamentarians, and since Matt Hancock wasn’t going to resign his seat this was a deal breaker


    Personally I would check before I offer a job that the person I'm offering it to is eligible. Maybe even when they have their name put forward.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279

    You'd think the first thing a person would do with a new job offer is check if you could continue with your current one, then you remember it's Hancock.

    Sam Coates Sky
    @SamCoatesSky
    31m
    I understand a major issue with the appointment is the UN can’t appoint sitting Parliamentarians, and since Matt Hancock wasn’t going to resign his seat this was a deal breaker


    I thought it was a bit odd that Hancock wasn't going to resign his seat when taking this job.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,583

    Matt Hancock UN appointment “not taken forward”, UN spokesman tells UN news organisation Pass Blue

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1449313761622380550?s=20

    Sure he will be able to get a non exec role at some of the companies who received £££££ without any accountability.
    Mistresses and ex-wives don't come cheap.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    edited October 2021
    JBriskin3 said:

    Nice touch, but why is the EU flag still there?

    Our flags at @ScotParl are flying at half-mast today as a mark of respect for Sir David Amess MP.

    https://twitter.com/ScotParl/status/1449046817262510089?s=20

    Holy shit - they are still literally flying the EU flag.

    #JailSturgeonForSedition
    I'm still proudly displaying the EU flag on my car's number plate.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Alistair said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nice touch, but why is the EU flag still there?

    Our flags at @ScotParl are flying at half-mast today as a mark of respect for Sir David Amess MP.

    https://twitter.com/ScotParl/status/1449046817262510089?s=20

    Could be an old photo taken off the disc. Edit: like petrol queues and supermarket shelves.
    No, there was a vote. Scottish parliament decided to keep the flag of europe up.
    Not to mention that the flag pre-dates the EU, and was first adopted by the Council of Europe which the UK remains a member of.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,232
    edited October 2021



    Denmark is a notable omission from the list of countries supporting France on this.

    Hah! That bombardment of 1807 suitably cowed the blighters.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,849
    Andy_JS said:

    You'd think the first thing a person would do with a new job offer is check if you could continue with your current one, then you remember it's Hancock.

    Sam Coates Sky
    @SamCoatesSky
    31m
    I understand a major issue with the appointment is the UN can’t appoint sitting Parliamentarians, and since Matt Hancock wasn’t going to resign his seat this was a deal breaker


    I thought it was a bit odd that Hancock wasn't going to resign his seat when taking this job.
    Felt he could squeeze Africa in, I suppose.
  • tlg86 said:

    Absolutely fantastic result against Watford. Five stars.

    I was looking at the 538 model and they had Liverpool ahead of Chelsea, which is contrary to the betting. I agree with 538.
    Not sure the latest with covid impacts but African Nations looked like a big issue for Liverpool.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,849
    edited October 2021
    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Bodes well for the ice-skating come winter.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    You'd think the first thing a person would do with a new job offer is check if you could continue with your current one, then you remember it's Hancock.

    Sam Coates Sky
    @SamCoatesSky
    31m
    I understand a major issue with the appointment is the UN can’t appoint sitting Parliamentarians, and since Matt Hancock wasn’t going to resign his seat this was a deal breaker


    I thought it was a bit odd that Hancock wasn't going to resign his seat when taking this job.
    Felt he could squeeze Africa in, I suppose.
    His latest 'squeeze' eh?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,849

    kle4 said:

    Businesses, I know you've got a lot of other stuff on at the moment but you really need to start war-gaming right now.



    Very Trumpish comments about a trade war.
    Not really when the other party is threatening a trade war.

    The UK is entirely within its rights to invoke Article 16 if there's any trade diversion etc happening which everyone agrees is happening. So if they do that and then a trade war is threatened then who's really being Trumpish?
    See how nobody replies if you write something too ludicrous, Philip?

    It's a fine line you tread and you've wandered over it here.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    edited October 2021
    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Is it open to the general public?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,741
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Bodes well for the ice-skating come winter.
    I confess I hadn't heard of Frieze.

    Obviously some thing for the North London Metropolitan Elite.
  • Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Terrible news for Starmer - can't see him clawing back much of the Red Wall when Boris can point to the preservation of the London art scene as a tangible benefit of Brexit.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    edited October 2021
    @ Pip Moss. The study of catastrophe in complex adaptive systems has become my life for the past decade. If you are interested in learning more about how we can learn and adapt, the following are, in my view, must reads:

    Safety at the Sharp End. This identifies 7 critical non-technical skills failures of which in some combination are found in all major disasters.

    Managing the Unexpected: Resilient Performance in an Age of Uncertainty. The bible on HROs (high reliability organizations = those that operate in complex, changing, high consequence environments yet achieve extraordinary levels of safety)

    Meltdown. Why Our Systems Fail and What We Can Do About It. A key concept here is that diversity is not just good at bringing different viewpoints to bear and hence opening up more routes to solutions, but that diversity per se makes the entire group more sceptical and hence less disposed towards complacency and groupthink.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,232
    stodge said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Bodes well for the ice-skating come winter.
    I confess I hadn't heard of Frieze.

    Obviously some thing for the North London Metropolitan Elite.
    It’s probably the most famous art fair in the world? Alongside Basel

    It’s joyous. Enormous. Totally open to the public. But sold out this year
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Art, fashion, finance, tech. It's going nowhere. Try as they might London has seen off all the attacks.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    JBriskin3 said:

    Nice touch, but why is the EU flag still there?

    Our flags at @ScotParl are flying at half-mast today as a mark of respect for Sir David Amess MP.

    https://twitter.com/ScotParl/status/1449046817262510089?s=20

    Holy shit - they are still literally flying the EU flag.

    #JailSturgeonForSedition
    I'm still proudly displaying the EU flag on my car's number plate.
    The irony is that it's an impossible dream for Scotland but a useful political reminder of a referendum and what might be.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,741
    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Bodes well for the ice-skating come winter.
    I confess I hadn't heard of Frieze.

    Obviously some thing for the North London Metropolitan Elite.
    It’s probably the most famous art fair in the world? Alongside Basel

    It’s joyous. Enormous. Totally open to the public. But sold out this year
    Honestly, I've never heard of it.

    In any case, if I were going anywhere today, I'd be heading to Ascot for Champions Day - they'll get 30,000 for that. The coronavirus hasn't killed off horse racing either
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Art, fashion, finance, tech. It's going nowhere. Try as they might London has seen off all the attacks.
    But but but, all the bankers are moving to Frankfurt, or was it Paris…

    Why would anyone want to live in London, if the UK isn’t in the EU?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Bodes well for the ice-skating come winter.
    I confess I hadn't heard of Frieze.

    Obviously some thing for the North London Metropolitan Elite.
    It’s probably the most famous art fair in the world? Alongside Basel

    It’s joyous. Enormous. Totally open to the public. But sold out this year
    Honestly, I've never heard of it.

    In any case, if I were going anywhere today, I'd be heading to Ascot for Champions Day - they'll get 30,000 for that. The coronavirus hasn't killed off horse racing either
    My girlfriend likes to remind me that if you call it "horse racing" rather than just "racing" it means you're a filthy casual.

    Obviously I continue to use "horse racing" all the more.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    edited October 2021

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Bodes well for the ice-skating come winter.
    I confess I hadn't heard of Frieze.

    Obviously some thing for the North London Metropolitan Elite.
    It’s probably the most famous art fair in the world? Alongside Basel

    It’s joyous. Enormous. Totally open to the public. But sold out this year
    Honestly, I've never heard of it.

    In any case, if I were going anywhere today, I'd be heading to Ascot for Champions Day - they'll get 30,000 for that. The coronavirus hasn't killed off horse racing either
    My girlfriend likes to remind me that if you call it "horse racing" rather than just "racing" it means you're a filthy casual.

    Obviously I continue to use "horse racing" all the more.
    I alway bridle at the American 'horseback riding'. What else would one ride? And how else would you ride a horse?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,849
    stodge said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Bodes well for the ice-skating come winter.
    I confess I hadn't heard of Frieze.

    Obviously some thing for the North London Metropolitan Elite.
    I've been a couple of times so it can't be that elite. It's in RP, though, which is Central Park for us North London metro types.
  • kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Businesses, I know you've got a lot of other stuff on at the moment but you really need to start war-gaming right now.



    Very Trumpish comments about a trade war.
    Not really when the other party is threatening a trade war.

    The UK is entirely within its rights to invoke Article 16 if there's any trade diversion etc happening which everyone agrees is happening. So if they do that and then a trade war is threatened then who's really being Trumpish?
    See how nobody replies if you write something too ludicrous, Philip?

    It's a fine line you tread and you've wandered over it here.
    You replied.

    I think nobody else replied because they can see I'm right. Article 16 is explicit in its conditions, trade diversion is classed as a condition and it's clearly happened. Even the EU accept that even if you don't.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    TimT said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Bodes well for the ice-skating come winter.
    I confess I hadn't heard of Frieze.

    Obviously some thing for the North London Metropolitan Elite.
    It’s probably the most famous art fair in the world? Alongside Basel

    It’s joyous. Enormous. Totally open to the public. But sold out this year
    Honestly, I've never heard of it.

    In any case, if I were going anywhere today, I'd be heading to Ascot for Champions Day - they'll get 30,000 for that. The coronavirus hasn't killed off horse racing either
    My girlfriend likes to remind me that if you call it "horse racing" rather than just "racing" it means you're a filthy casual.

    Obviously I continue to use "horse racing" all the more.
    I alway bridle at the American 'horseback riding'. What else would one ride? And how else would you ride a horse?
    I've seen camel racing. Somewhat juvenile riders.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Businesses, I know you've got a lot of other stuff on at the moment but you really need to start war-gaming right now.



    Very Trumpish comments about a trade war.
    Not really when the other party is threatening a trade war.

    The UK is entirely within its rights to invoke Article 16 if there's any trade diversion etc happening which everyone agrees is happening. So if they do that and then a trade war is threatened then who's really being Trumpish?
    See how nobody replies if you write something too ludicrous, Philip?

    It's a fine line you tread and you've wandered over it here.
    You replied.

    I think nobody else replied because they can see I'm right. Article 16 is explicit in its conditions, trade diversion is classed as a condition and it's clearly happened. Even the EU accept that even if you don't.
    Nah, I don't think you're right mate.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,849

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Bodes well for the ice-skating come winter.
    I confess I hadn't heard of Frieze.

    Obviously some thing for the North London Metropolitan Elite.
    It’s probably the most famous art fair in the world? Alongside Basel

    It’s joyous. Enormous. Totally open to the public. But sold out this year
    Honestly, I've never heard of it.

    In any case, if I were going anywhere today, I'd be heading to Ascot for Champions Day - they'll get 30,000 for that. The coronavirus hasn't killed off horse racing either
    My girlfriend likes to remind me that if you call it "horse racing" rather than just "racing" it means you're a filthy casual.

    Obviously I continue to use "horse racing" all the more.
    Yes, it's "racing". You only have to add a qualifier for other types, eg motor, greyhound, pigeon etc.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,612
    @MaxPB

    Just catching up - been out on the river, rowing.

    With respect to miscarriages - talking about it is important. Try a counsellor - maybe suggest a joint session?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    edited October 2021
    TimT said:

    @ Pip Moss. The study of catastrophe in complex adaptive systems has become my life for the past decade. If you are interested in learning more about how we can learn and adapt, the following are, in my view, must reads:

    Safety at the Sharp End. This identifies 7 critical non-technical skills failures of which in some combination are found in all major disasters.

    Managing the Unexpected: Resilient Performance in an Age of Uncertainty. The bible on HROs (high reliability organizations = those that operate in complex, changing, high consequence environments yet achieve extraordinary levels of safety)

    Meltdown. Why Our Systems Fail and What We Can Do About It. A key concept here is that diversity is not just good at bringing different viewpoints to bear and hence opening up more routes to solutions, but that diversity per se makes the entire group more sceptical and hence less disposed towards complacency and groupthink.

    I'd recommend the last solely on the ability of affordability in finding a copy, after a quick Amazon check.

    Though I don't know who this Pip Moss is. I refuse to know PBers as people and not webhandles :)
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Art, fashion, finance, tech. It's going nowhere. Try as they might London has seen off all the attacks.
    But but but, all the bankers are moving to Frankfurt, or was it Paris…

    Why would anyone want to live in London, if the UK isn’t in the EU?
    Because it's not Frankfurt (boring beyond hell) and Paris is usually way better as a City Break rather than somewhere to actually live?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,583
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Art, fashion, finance, tech. It's going nowhere. Try as they might London has seen off all the attacks.
    "Seen off all the attacks". I thought Johnson's plan was to make art, fashion, finance and tech go North, or is that what you mean by "nowhere"?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,612
    TimT said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Bodes well for the ice-skating come winter.
    I confess I hadn't heard of Frieze.

    Obviously some thing for the North London Metropolitan Elite.
    It’s probably the most famous art fair in the world? Alongside Basel

    It’s joyous. Enormous. Totally open to the public. But sold out this year
    Honestly, I've never heard of it.

    In any case, if I were going anywhere today, I'd be heading to Ascot for Champions Day - they'll get 30,000 for that. The coronavirus hasn't killed off horse racing either
    My girlfriend likes to remind me that if you call it "horse racing" rather than just "racing" it means you're a filthy casual.

    Obviously I continue to use "horse racing" all the more.
    I alway bridle at the American 'horseback riding'. What else would one ride? And how else would you ride a horse?
    Elephants. Obviously.

    Many years ago, went to the Chitwan reserve in Nepal. We had to stay out side the reserve. We entered the reserve each day, by elephant, wading/swimming across the river at dawn.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    TimT said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Bodes well for the ice-skating come winter.
    I confess I hadn't heard of Frieze.

    Obviously some thing for the North London Metropolitan Elite.
    It’s probably the most famous art fair in the world? Alongside Basel

    It’s joyous. Enormous. Totally open to the public. But sold out this year
    Honestly, I've never heard of it.

    In any case, if I were going anywhere today, I'd be heading to Ascot for Champions Day - they'll get 30,000 for that. The coronavirus hasn't killed off horse racing either
    My girlfriend likes to remind me that if you call it "horse racing" rather than just "racing" it means you're a filthy casual.

    Obviously I continue to use "horse racing" all the more.
    I alway bridle at the American 'horseback riding'. What else would one ride? And how else would you ride a horse?
    I've seen camel racing. Somewhat juvenile riders.
    In the Gulf now, they use robot jockeys for camel racing, operated from cars running alongside. Easier to train than boys, and less controversial.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=z8N6ooJQU0s
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    edited October 2021
    TimT said:

    @ Pip Moss. The study of catastrophe in complex adaptive systems has become my life for the past decade. If you are interested in learning more about how we can learn and adapt, the following are, in my view, must reads:

    Safety at the Sharp End. This identifies 7 critical non-technical skills failures of which in some combination are found in all major disasters.

    Managing the Unexpected: Resilient Performance in an Age of Uncertainty. The bible on HROs (high reliability organizations = those that operate in complex, changing, high consequence environments yet achieve extraordinary levels of safety)

    Meltdown. Why Our Systems Fail and What We Can Do About It. A key concept here is that diversity is not just good at bringing different viewpoints to bear and hence opening up more routes to solutions, but that diversity per se makes the entire group more sceptical and hence less disposed towards complacency and groupthink.

    Sounds interesting, thanks. I'm particularly interested in the Boeing 737 MAX failure.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,232
    edited October 2021
    It’s surprising how many Brits, even Londoners, have never heard of Frieze. It’s probably the best art fair in the world. Certainly one of the biggest

    You get to see the finest ultra modern art from all over the globe in one place. Plus lots of weird/fascinating/beautiful/pretentious/insanely rich/laughable people

    Then you go to Frieze Masters and see incredible ancient, primitive, famous art from Raphael to New Guinea carvings to Chinese calligraphy to Warhol

    And it happens once a year on our doorstep. And so many people are just… unaware?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    A dizzying amount of money is already pouring into the battles for the House and the Senate more than a year before the 2022 elections, as Republicans are bullish on their chances to take over both chambers in the first midterm election under President Biden, given the narrow margins keeping Democrats in power.

    The two parties’ main war chests for the House total a combined $128 million — more than double the sum at this point in the 2020 cycle.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/16/us/politics/midterm-elections-campaign-financing.html
  • eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Art, fashion, finance, tech. It's going nowhere. Try as they might London has seen off all the attacks.
    But but but, all the bankers are moving to Frankfurt, or was it Paris…

    Why would anyone want to live in London, if the UK isn’t in the EU?
    Because it's not Frankfurt (boring beyond hell) and Paris is usually way better as a City Break rather than somewhere to actually live?
    Why is Frankfurt regarded as so boring ?

    Are the inhabitants obliged to watch endless episodes of Last of the Summer Wine or some such ?

    Sure its not on anyone's tourism list but I thought these high powered bankers worked 60 hours a week in high stress jobs - do they have the time or energy for anything exciting after that ?

    Are other German cities also boring or is Frankfurt uniquely so ?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    stodge said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Bodes well for the ice-skating come winter.
    I confess I hadn't heard of Frieze.

    Obviously some thing for the North London Metropolitan Elite.
    Me neither.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    TimT said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Bodes well for the ice-skating come winter.
    I confess I hadn't heard of Frieze.

    Obviously some thing for the North London Metropolitan Elite.
    It’s probably the most famous art fair in the world? Alongside Basel

    It’s joyous. Enormous. Totally open to the public. But sold out this year
    Honestly, I've never heard of it.

    In any case, if I were going anywhere today, I'd be heading to Ascot for Champions Day - they'll get 30,000 for that. The coronavirus hasn't killed off horse racing either
    My girlfriend likes to remind me that if you call it "horse racing" rather than just "racing" it means you're a filthy casual.

    Obviously I continue to use "horse racing" all the more.
    I alway bridle at the American 'horseback riding'. What else would one ride? And how else would you ride a horse?
    Elephants. Obviously.

    Many years ago, went to the Chitwan reserve in Nepal. We had to stay out side the reserve. We entered the reserve each day, by elephant, wading/swimming across the river at dawn.
    Only ridden an elephant once, in Kandy.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,728
    Leon said:

    It’s surprising how many Brits, even Londoners, have never heard of Frieze. It’s probably the best art fair in the world. Certainly one of the biggest

    You get to see the finest ultra modern art from all over the globe in one place. Plus lots of weird/fascinating/beautiful/pretentious/insanely rich/laughable people

    Then you go to Frieze Masters and see incredible ancient, primitive, famous art from Raphael to New Guinea carvings to Chinese calligraphy to Warhol

    And it happens once a year on our doorstep. And so many people are just… unaware?

    A bloke I used to work with runs an art gallery in Holland Park and he mentioned it on an Instagram post the other day. I’d never heard of it til then
  • Leon said:

    It’s surprising how many Brits, even Londoners, have never heard of Frieze. It’s probably the best art fair in the world. Certainly one of the biggest

    You get to see the finest ultra modern art from all over the globe in one place. Plus lots of weird/fascinating/beautiful/pretentious/insanely rich/laughable people

    Then you go to Frieze Masters and see incredible ancient, primitive, famous art from Raphael to New Guinea carvings to Chinese calligraphy to Warhol

    And it happens once a year on our doorstep. And so many people are just… unaware?

    I've never heard of it either and glancing at the BBC News front page it doesn't even feature at all that I can see. Whereas Edinburgh Fringe etc always does.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    Andy_JS said:

    TimT said:

    @ Pip Moss. The study of catastrophe in complex adaptive systems has become my life for the past decade. If you are interested in learning more about how we can learn and adapt, the following are, in my view, must reads:

    Safety at the Sharp End. This identifies 7 critical non-technical skills failures of which in some combination are found in all major disasters.

    Managing the Unexpected: Resilient Performance in an Age of Uncertainty. The bible on HROs (high reliability organizations = those that operate in complex, changing, high consequence environments yet achieve extraordinary levels of safety)

    Meltdown. Why Our Systems Fail and What We Can Do About It. A key concept here is that diversity is not just good at bringing different viewpoints to bear and hence opening up more routes to solutions, but that diversity per se makes the entire group more sceptical and hence less disposed towards complacency and groupthink.

    Sounds interesting, thanks. I'm particularly interested in the Boeing 737 MAX failure.
    Sorry, I don't have any specific reading suggestions on that, but civil aviation in general has been the biggest single contributor to the field. The FAA investigations are very, very good and in general are not too hard to read, even for non-engineers. They have an entire reading room on the 737 MAX:

    https://www.faa.gov/foia/electronic_reading_room/boeing_reading_room/
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    edited October 2021

    TimT said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    So here’s one thing Brexit didn’t do. Kill off London as the art capital of Europe. This place is jammers

    Bodes well for the ice-skating come winter.
    I confess I hadn't heard of Frieze.

    Obviously some thing for the North London Metropolitan Elite.
    It’s probably the most famous art fair in the world? Alongside Basel

    It’s joyous. Enormous. Totally open to the public. But sold out this year
    Honestly, I've never heard of it.

    In any case, if I were going anywhere today, I'd be heading to Ascot for Champions Day - they'll get 30,000 for that. The coronavirus hasn't killed off horse racing either
    My girlfriend likes to remind me that if you call it "horse racing" rather than just "racing" it means you're a filthy casual.

    Obviously I continue to use "horse racing" all the more.
    I alway bridle at the American 'horseback riding'. What else would one ride? And how else would you ride a horse?
    Elephants. Obviously.

    Many years ago, went to the Chitwan reserve in Nepal. We had to stay out side the reserve. We entered the reserve each day, by elephant, wading/swimming across the river at dawn.
    Never seen racing elephants. Ridden them, on one occasion round a Thai vineyard. And the Thais and Burmese used to fight on them, too.

    Edit. There's an Elephant Polo Cup, too.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,232

    Leon said:

    It’s surprising how many Brits, even Londoners, have never heard of Frieze. It’s probably the best art fair in the world. Certainly one of the biggest

    You get to see the finest ultra modern art from all over the globe in one place. Plus lots of weird/fascinating/beautiful/pretentious/insanely rich/laughable people

    Then you go to Frieze Masters and see incredible ancient, primitive, famous art from Raphael to New Guinea carvings to Chinese calligraphy to Warhol

    And it happens once a year on our doorstep. And so many people are just… unaware?

    I've never heard of it either and glancing at the BBC News front page it doesn't even feature at all that I can see. Whereas Edinburgh Fringe etc always does.
    Yes it’s bonkers. It’s easily as important in the art world as Edinburgh is in performing arts

    It also generates vast sums of cash as people flood into london from across the world - and buy all the art. Not just here but at auction houses and other galleries and private sales…
  • I see the PB art conosoors have signed in.
    Quick straw poll, hands up which PBers have bought a piece of art in the last couple of years (prints of Spitfires and David Shepherd elephants don't count for this one)?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881
    Great thread header, very interesting read, thanks!
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s surprising how many Brits, even Londoners, have never heard of Frieze. It’s probably the best art fair in the world. Certainly one of the biggest

    You get to see the finest ultra modern art from all over the globe in one place. Plus lots of weird/fascinating/beautiful/pretentious/insanely rich/laughable people

    Then you go to Frieze Masters and see incredible ancient, primitive, famous art from Raphael to New Guinea carvings to Chinese calligraphy to Warhol

    And it happens once a year on our doorstep. And so many people are just… unaware?

    I've never heard of it either and glancing at the BBC News front page it doesn't even feature at all that I can see. Whereas Edinburgh Fringe etc always does.
    Yes it’s bonkers. It’s easily as important in the art world as Edinburgh is in performing arts

    It also generates vast sums of cash as people flood into london from across the world - and buy all the art. Not just here but at auction houses and other galleries and private sales…
    Im guessing the Beeb has more luvvies in performing arts than they have in art.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,232
    First things I see as I walk into Frieze Masters. I’ve been here 5 minutes

    Medieval wooden busts. Precious 11th century church painting. Damien Hirst. Henry moore. Picasso. Bonnard. 5th bc Cycladic bust. 4000 year old Egyptian ibis. Keith haring Warhol

    5 minutes
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,232

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s surprising how many Brits, even Londoners, have never heard of Frieze. It’s probably the best art fair in the world. Certainly one of the biggest

    You get to see the finest ultra modern art from all over the globe in one place. Plus lots of weird/fascinating/beautiful/pretentious/insanely rich/laughable people

    Then you go to Frieze Masters and see incredible ancient, primitive, famous art from Raphael to New Guinea carvings to Chinese calligraphy to Warhol

    And it happens once a year on our doorstep. And so many people are just… unaware?

    I've never heard of it either and glancing at the BBC News front page it doesn't even feature at all that I can see. Whereas Edinburgh Fringe etc always does.
    Yes it’s bonkers. It’s easily as important in the art world as Edinburgh is in performing arts

    It also generates vast sums of cash as people flood into london from across the world - and buy all the art. Not just here but at auction houses and other galleries and private sales…
    Im guessing the Beeb has more luvvies in performing arts than they have in art.
    Funnily enough I just saw Alan Yentob. The controversial BBC arts presenter
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    edited October 2021
    Leon said:

    First things I see as I walk into Frieze Masters. I’ve been here 5 minutes

    Medieval wooden busts. Precious 11th century church painting. Damien Hirst. Henry moore. Picasso. Bonnard. 5th bc Cycladic bust. 4000 year old Egyptian ibis. Keith haring Warhol

    5 minutes

    Very lucky to see pre-Reformation English or Welsh religious art. Wasn't 90% of English religious art destroyed in the Reformation and half the remainder by the Puritans 100 years later?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Andy_JS said:

    TimT said:

    @ Pip Moss. The study of catastrophe in complex adaptive systems has become my life for the past decade. If you are interested in learning more about how we can learn and adapt, the following are, in my view, must reads:

    Safety at the Sharp End. This identifies 7 critical non-technical skills failures of which in some combination are found in all major disasters.

    Managing the Unexpected: Resilient Performance in an Age of Uncertainty. The bible on HROs (high reliability organizations = those that operate in complex, changing, high consequence environments yet achieve extraordinary levels of safety)

    Meltdown. Why Our Systems Fail and What We Can Do About It. A key concept here is that diversity is not just good at bringing different viewpoints to bear and hence opening up more routes to solutions, but that diversity per se makes the entire group more sceptical and hence less disposed towards complacency and groupthink.

    Sounds interesting, thanks. I'm particularly interested in the Boeing 737 MAX failure.
    Here is the US NTSB investigation report, into the issues on the 737 Max.
    https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/ASR1901.pdf
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    Andy_JS said:

    TimT said:

    @ Pip Moss. The study of catastrophe in complex adaptive systems has become my life for the past decade. If you are interested in learning more about how we can learn and adapt, the following are, in my view, must reads:

    Safety at the Sharp End. This identifies 7 critical non-technical skills failures of which in some combination are found in all major disasters.

    Managing the Unexpected: Resilient Performance in an Age of Uncertainty. The bible on HROs (high reliability organizations = those that operate in complex, changing, high consequence environments yet achieve extraordinary levels of safety)

    Meltdown. Why Our Systems Fail and What We Can Do About It. A key concept here is that diversity is not just good at bringing different viewpoints to bear and hence opening up more routes to solutions, but that diversity per se makes the entire group more sceptical and hence less disposed towards complacency and groupthink.

    Sounds interesting, thanks. I'm particularly interested in the Boeing 737 MAX failure.
    Probably should add

    Drift into Failure by Sidney Dekker

    Safety I and Safety II by Erik Hollnagel, who went on to develop the concept of Resilience Engineering.
This discussion has been closed.