Appointment of Peter Cruddas, who donated £500,000 to party after taking seat, is ‘unlawful’, say campaigners
The Good Law Project – which has brought a series of judicial review cases against the government over the award of contracts during the pandemic – has said it intends to challenge the appointment in the courts.
What I want to know is how the virus got from the Wuhan lab, ie the BSL-2 CDC facility where they did much of the research, all the way across the city to the market?
I mean, how could that happen?
What I love about the
That could be a photo of Croydon with Chinese place names turned on.
As cellphone-data-suggests-october-shutdown-wuhan-lab-experts-n1202716
And about 1,000 other examples.
No, that’s the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a BSL-4 lab about 10km from the market (I think)
Since the plague began, the scientists in Wuhan have admitted much of their work was done in lower level BSL-2 ancillary labs
‘Much of Shi’s work on gain-of-function in coronaviruses was performed at the BSL2 safety level, as is stated in her publications and other documents. She has said in an interview with Science magazine that “[t]he coronavirus research in our laboratory is conducted in BSL-2 or BSL-3 laboratories.”’
One of these is alleged to be the Wuhan ‘CDC’. I happily confess I can’t prove that’s it in the photo. But I have seen several maps which show the BSL-2 and 3 labs are much nearer the market
As ever, you bluster loudly but you’re embarrassingly ill-informed
Sorry: there is literally ZERO evidence that that photo is of either the wet market or the the Wuhan lab.
It's a photo. With circles on it. Providence unknown.
One of the circles says "Wuhan CDC". Which doesn't exist,
The other says "Market".
And I'm the one ill informed?
Are you high?
You didn’t even do your ‘ten seconds of research’ to find out if there were multiple labs in Wuhan. There are. Oh dear.
You don't even know that photo is from Wuhan.
The only thing we know for sure is that "Wuhan CDC" doesn't exist.
And I'm the one not doing my research?
I HAVE done my research. I’m 99% sure that is a map of central Wuhan. And it correctly identifies the Wuhan wet market
However the circled building appears to be a Ramen bar. Which, I confess, does not sound like an evil bioweapon lab
That said, right next door is a research hospital. Who knows. Where are the other, lower level labs? It’s quite an important detail
I did the same search on Google
Two things: 1. That's a seafood market, so are we sure that's the alleged wet market, anyway? And 2. If you look around the images, the hospital is in the middle of some really fancy office and hotel space.
The Wuhan Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market (Chinese: 武汉华南海鲜批发市场),[1][2] also known as the Huanan Seafood Market[3] (Huanan means 'South China'), was a live animal and seafood market in Jianghan District, Wuhan City, the capital of Hubei Province in Central China.
The market became widely known worldwide after being identified as the 'Ground Zero'…
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
Perhaps a Theresa May and Steve Baker dream team.
Steve Baker loses his seat next time.
A majority of 4,000 and 8,000 LDs and Greens for Labour to squeeze.
Hard Brexitism doesn't play well in Wycombe.
Possibly. Though FWIW, in a hypothetical where he actually becomes that important, the elderly MP for Brexitshire North West could always be offered a peerage and he could be parachuted into the seat - so there are ways and means, of course.
In the current state of UK politics it would be hard to get me to vote anything other than Tory, but per impossibile Steve Baker as leader of the party would do it.
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
Do you think the 1922 will move against Boris if he extends lockdown beyond 19th July?
What I want to know is how the virus got from the Wuhan lab, ie the BSL-2 CDC facility where they did much of the research, all the way across the city to the market?
"That did much of the research..."
Cites, please.
‘Much of Shi’s work on gain-of-function in coronaviruses was performed at the BSL2 safety level, as is stated in her publications and other documents. She has said in an interview with Science magazine that “[t]he coronavirus research in our laboratory is conducted in BSL-2 or BSL-3 laboratories.”
‘“It is clear that some or all of this work was being performed using a biosafety standard — biosafety level 2, the biosafety level of a standard US dentist’s office — that would pose an unacceptably high risk of infection of laboratory staff upon contact with a virus having the transmission properties of SARS-CoV-2,” Ebright says.’
It's funny isn't it: if Covid had been a hypothetical and you'd asked me about Germany vs the UK and how our governments would react, I'd have assumed that Germany would nail vaccine production, but would be overly cautious with restrictions and would be slow to open up.
The UK under Boris Johnson, on the other hand, I'd have assumed would mess up the vaccines, but would have a swashbuckling attitude that would mean we'd open up successfully.
The EU, the US and Israel are correctly opening up while we dither.
Boris: for the love of God, please (a) release the AZN vaccines to people who want them, and (b) open up on the 21st.
(a) Not a prayer: we don't give AZ to the under 40s. There is a two-in-a-million chance that their brains might melt. (b) He will. Probably. On June 21st - 2026.
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
The conservatives gave people like Michie power over ordinary Brits, something no conservative government would have ever dreamt of doing in the past under any circumstances.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
Susan Michie is a member of Independent Sage, the go to group for the media to attack and undermine the government
The conservatives did not give her a mouthpiece, that was our media
Sorry but Michie is a member of SAGE not independent SAGE.
Well there is the report on scientists apology....
Which is not a report on SAGE, but on a different committee. And while disturbing, therefore doesn’t support your claim.
The reality is, of course, that the problem here is those people who have refused to be vaccinated. They are the ones driving hospital admissions and deaths.
So no, I don’t blame the government, although I think they are bloody fools and the world would be a happier place if they would all jump in a lake. I do to a degree blame SAGE, who appear to have no common sense, Indie SAGE, who are clearly self-important windbags, or the NHS bosses.
But to the greatest extent I blame you. You are restricting my freedom. You are putting my life on hold. You are making me stagger under intolerable and otherwise unnecessary burdens at work trying to provide an education to children, which is hard work at the best of times.
And at the same time you are a hypocrite who lectures me on ‘giving up my freedoms.’ That’s what sets you apart from say, Dura Ace who has never lectured me on any part of my lifestyle.
You are a thousand times worse than Susan Michie. But you have neither the courage nor the ability to see that.
Sad, but there we are. It would be your problem in normal times, but it’s infuriating that you inflict it on the rest of us too.
And now I really am off for the afternoon. Have a good one.
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
A great post and thank you.
Here's the thing. It is not surprising the UK does not want to be free when the government is not showing voters the whole story. Gargantuan debts, furlough and money printing are hiding the hugely destructive effects of restrictions. Right now voters think there is no hit to take.
Johnson goes on ad nauseam about 'caution' but there is absolutely nothing cautious about what he is doing. The UK is engaged in massive and reckless gamble with the country's economy in the near and medium term future. A gamble that could break us for decades.
It was a big gamble when we were all involved in it. Now that some Western countries are deciding to live with covid, its an insane policy. Insane. Investors will soon start to differentiate between the covid brave and the covid cowards.
Those governments in thrall to scientists who will never take a hit could be severely punished.
The flip side is that those who are first movers will benefit mightily
It's funny isn't it: if Covid had been a hypothetical and you'd asked me about Germany vs the UK and how our governments would react, I'd have assumed that Germany would nail vaccine production, but would be overly cautious with restrictions and would be slow to open up.
The UK under Boris Johnson, on the other hand, I'd have assumed would mess up the vaccines, but would have a swashbuckling attitude that would mean we'd open up successfully.
The EU, the US and Israel are correctly opening up while we dither.
Boris: for the love of God, please (a) release the AZN vaccines to people who want them, and (b) open up on the 21st.
I think one difference is that in this country there is one body (the Govt) that takes all the decisions and is all powerful. Even more so now the courts seem powerless to resist in a rapidly developing situation like this (partly a consequence of the unwritten constitution I guess). That comes with advantages and disadvantages.
Where in most other places there are clear limits to Govt power - whether through the ability to challenge Govt edict on constitutional grounds in the courts, or alternative local power bases to whom the central authority can not dictate.
He's lashing out. The interviewer called him out for being a liar, which he doesn't like, even though he is one. Probably OK although we can't be sure. The chaos that surrounds him is real enough even if he is false in other ways.
The quote at 12.21.34 is telling: "you've just got to do whatever it takes to protect life"
The covid zealots have won. The war is over. We will not learn to live with this, like we do flu (which kills people every winter). We will do whatever it takes to avoid loss of life.
Whatever it takes.
Whatever it takes is a biosecurity state with lockdown and social distancing and rules for ever.
Susan Michie was right.
And it won't just be Covid. It'll be all respiratory illnesses that they'll seek to permanently suppress. We'll never be rid of these evil masks.
When the public do turn against the government for what they are doing, as they inevitably will one day, they will turn very hard.
It'll be 'never again' territory.
I think Baker and the cleverer Tories know that.
I reckon the Government will probably get away with all of this. Their elderly support base loves lockdowns, and the Opposition are absolutely useless and show no sign of having either the willingness or ability to improve.
This could be Japan, you know. We could have one party rule for many decades.
Based on here, the vitriol for delaying step 4 of the roadmap is mainly coming from right wing Leavers. It appears they have discovered that Boris Johnson is incompetent and untrustworthy, as is the government he leads. It remains to be seen how such people will react electorally. Perhaps they will abstain. Perhaps they will defect to Labour if Starmer can be replaced as leader by a Peter Bone type. Or perhaps they will still vote Tory.
I am a leaver. I do not identify as right wing. I have never voted Tory and cannot imagine I ever will. The conflating of leavers with what you believe is right wing tories who are just uncovering the reality of the PM is just one of the reasons the remainers failed so dismally both in the referendum and beyond.
That's unfair on me. I'm going on a high volume of actual posts on here from prolific actual posters who ARE right wing leavers. Going that way. I'm not looking at the sentiment and then assuming that that sentiment = right wing leaver.
If I have been unkind to you I apologise but I am sick of the Leaver=Tory equation.
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
Do you think the 1922 will move against Boris if he extends lockdown beyond 19th July?
You asked @MaxPB but, butting in, a lot may depend on the 1922 election - see Guido for details. I think it will be the Northern 2019 uptake that will lead the charge to get rid of Boris if he is seen to dither on the 21st and their constituents go ballistic.
What I want to know is how the virus got from the Wuhan lab, ie the BSL-2 CDC facility where they did much of the research, all the way across the city to the market?
"That did much of the research..."
Cites, please.
‘Much of Shi’s work on gain-of-function in coronaviruses was performed at the BSL2 safety level, as is stated in her publications and other documents. She has said in an interview with Science magazine that “[t]he coronavirus research in our laboratory is conducted in BSL-2 or BSL-3 laboratories.”
‘“It is clear that some or all of this work was being performed using a biosafety standard — biosafety level 2, the biosafety level of a standard US dentist’s office — that would pose an unacceptably high risk of infection of laboratory staff upon contact with a virus having the transmission properties of SARS-CoV-2,” Ebright says.’
What I want to know is how the virus got from the Wuhan lab, ie the BSL-2 CDC facility where they did much of the research, all the way across the city to the market?
I mean, how could that happen?
What I love about the
That could be a photo of Croydon with Chinese place names turned on.
As cellphone-data-suggests-october-shutdown-wuhan-lab-experts-n1202716
And about 1,000 other examples.
No, that’s the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a BSL-4 lab about 10km from the market (I think)
Since the plague began, the scientists in Wuhan have admitted much of their work was done in lower level BSL-2 ancillary labs
‘Much of Shi’s work on gain-of-function in coronaviruses was performed at the BSL2 safety level, as is stated in her publications and other documents. She has said in an interview with Science magazine that “[t]he coronavirus research in our laboratory is conducted in BSL-2 or BSL-3 laboratories.”’
One of these is alleged to be the Wuhan ‘CDC’. I happily confess I can’t prove that’s it in the photo. But I have seen several maps which show the BSL-2 and 3 labs are much nearer the market
As ever, you bluster loudly but you’re embarrassingly ill-informed
Sorry: there is literally ZERO evidence that that photo is of either the wet market or the the Wuhan lab.
It's a photo. With circles on it. Providence unknown.
One of the circles says "Wuhan CDC". Which doesn't exist,
The other says "Market".
And I'm the one ill informed?
Are you high?
You didn’t even do your ‘ten seconds of research’ to find out if there were multiple labs in Wuhan. There are. Oh dear.
You don't even know that photo is from Wuhan.
The only thing we know for sure is that "Wuhan CDC" doesn't exist.
And I'm the one not doing my research?
I HAVE done my research. I’m 99% sure that is a map of central Wuhan. And it correctly identifies the Wuhan wet market
However the circled building appears to be a Ramen bar. Which, I confess, does not sound like an evil bioweapon lab
That said, right next door is a research hospital. Who knows. Where are the other, lower level labs? It’s quite an important detail
I did the same search on Google
Two things: 1. That's a seafood market, so are we sure that's the alleged wet market, anyway? And 2. If you look around the images, the hospital is in the middle of some really fancy office and hotel space.
The Wuhan Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market (Chinese: 武汉华南海鲜批发市场),[1][2] also known as the Huanan Seafood Market[3] (Huanan means 'South China'), was a live animal and seafood market in Jianghan District, Wuhan City, the capital of Hubei Province in Central China.
The market became widely known worldwide after being identified as the 'Ground Zero'…
So, it's down to a simple question: was "Wuhan CDC" (which doesn't exist) actually the lab, or was it a noodle bar?
He's lashing out. The interviewer called him out for being a liar, which he doesn't like, even though he is one. Probably OK although we can't be sure. The chaos that surrounds him is real enough even if he is false in other ways.
The quote at 12.21.34 is telling: "you've just got to do whatever it takes to protect life"
The covid zealots have won. The war is over. We will not learn to live with this, like we do flu (which kills people every winter). We will do whatever it takes to avoid loss of life.
Whatever it takes.
Whatever it takes is a biosecurity state with lockdown and social distancing and rules for ever.
Susan Michie was right.
And it won't just be Covid. It'll be all respiratory illnesses that they'll seek to permanently suppress. We'll never be rid of these evil masks.
When the public do turn against the government for what they are doing, as they inevitably will one day, they will turn very hard.
It'll be 'never again' territory.
I think Baker and the cleverer Tories know that.
I reckon the Government will probably get away with all of this. Their elderly support base loves lockdowns, and the Opposition are absolutely useless and show no sign of having either the willingness or ability to improve.
This could be Japan, you know. We could have one party rule for many decades.
Based on here, the vitriol for delaying step 4 of the roadmap is mainly coming from right wing Leavers. It appears they have discovered that Boris Johnson is incompetent and untrustworthy, as is the government he leads. It remains to be seen how such people will react electorally. Perhaps they will abstain. Perhaps they will defect to Labour if Starmer can be replaced as leader by a Peter Bone type. Or perhaps they will still vote Tory.
I am a leaver. I do not identify as right wing. I have never voted Tory and cannot imagine I ever will. The conflating of leavers with what you believe is right wing tories who are just uncovering the reality of the PM is just one of the reasons the remainers failed so dismally both in the referendum and beyond.
That's unfair on me. I'm going on a high volume of actual posts on here from prolific actual posters who ARE right wing leavers. Going that way. I'm not looking at the sentiment and then assuming that that sentiment = right wing leaver.
If I have been unkind to you I apologise but I am sick of the Leaver=Tory equation.
Fair enough. It's understandable you're sick of it if you're a Leaver who did NOT vote Tory at GE19. However it was the Brexit election, and it was won by the Leave vote consolidating behind the Tories, so you're bound to get some linking of the 2 things. But I'll remember it doesn't apply in your case.
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
Do you think the 1922 will move against Boris if he extends lockdown beyond 19th July?
You asked @MaxPB but, butting in, a lot may depend on the 1922 election - see Guido for details. I think it will be the Northern 2019 uptake that will lead the charge to get rid of Boris if he is seen to dither on the 21st and their constituents go ballistic.
Why would the MPs move against a PM who is thirteen points up in the polls?
The MPs will not move until the polls move against Johnson, and/or there are by-election or local election results showing other parties gaining.
If Reform got 5,000 in C&A, for example, that would concentrate a lot of minds. They won't, sadly.
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
The conservatives gave people like Michie power over ordinary Brits, something no conservative government would have ever dreamt of doing in the past under any circumstances.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
Susan Michie is a member of Independent Sage, the go to group for the media to attack and undermine the government
The conservatives did not give her a mouthpiece, that was our media
Sorry but Michie is a member of SAGE not independent SAGE.
Well there is the report on scientists apology....
Which is not a report on SAGE, but on a different committee. And while disturbing, therefore doesn’t support your claim.
The reality is, of course, that the problem here is those people who have refused to be vaccinated. They are the ones driving hospital admissions and deaths.
So no, I don’t blame the government, although I think they are bloody fools and the world would be a happier place if they would all jump in a lake. I do to a degree blame SAGE, who appear to have no common sense, Indie SAGE, who are clearly self-important windbags, or the NHS bosses.
But to the greatest extent I blame you. You are restricting my freedom. You are putting my life on hold. You are making me stagger under intolerable and otherwise unnecessary burdens at work trying to provide an education to children, which is hard work at the best of times.
And at the same time you are a hypocrite who lectures me on ‘giving up my freedoms.’ That’s what sets you apart from say, Dura Ace who has never lectured me on any part of my lifestyle.
You are a thousand times worse than Susan Michie. But you have neither the courage nor the ability to see that.
Sad, but there we are. It would be your problem in normal times, but it’s infuriating that you inflict it on the rest of us too.
And now I really am off for the afternoon. Have a good one.
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
A great post and thank you.
Here's the thing. It is not surprising the UK does not want to be free when the government is not showing voters the whole story. Gargantuan debts, furlough and money printing are hiding the hugely destructive effects of restrictions. Right now voters think there is no hit to take.
Johnson goes on ad nauseam about 'caution' but there is absolutely nothing cautious about what he is doing. The UK is engaged in massive and reckless gamble with the country's economy in the near and medium term future. A gamble that could break us for decades.
It was a big gamble when we were all involved in it. Now that some Western countries are deciding to live with covid, its an insane policy. Insane. Investors will soon start to differentiate between the covid brave and the covid cowards.
Those governments in thrall to scientists who will never take a hit could be severely punished.
The flip side is that those who are first movers will benefit mightily
It's funny isn't it: if Covid had been a hypothetical and you'd asked me about Germany vs the UK and how our governments would react, I'd have assumed that Germany would nail vaccine production, but would be overly cautious with restrictions and would be slow to open up.
The UK under Boris Johnson, on the other hand, I'd have assumed would mess up the vaccines, but would have a swashbuckling attitude that would mean we'd open up successfully.
The EU, the US and Israel are correctly opening up while we dither.
Boris: for the love of God, please (a) release the AZN vaccines to people who want them, and (b) open up on the 21st.
On point a - if it were my decision I'd actually give Novavax an emergency use authorisation based on the preliminary data from the PIII trial as we'd get around 10m-12m doses released for bottling at Wockhart and GSK immediately which would get us 3m extra doses per week in 21 days and then 2m per week from current manufacturing.
It's probably about the same risk level as AZ but it doesn't need 4 weeks to reach minimum efficacy and it's already shown better results against existing variants on the same level as Pfizer and Moderna. In terms of neutralising antibodies Novavax has the second best overall immunity provided after Moderna and it only requires a 3 week gap.
That not only gets us over the line, we'd be done with our vaccine programme as Novavax would cover the last 6-7m people and it would free up Pfizer for second doses for the over 25s cohort.
The thing that strikes me about so many of the wickets, just how technically poor the batsman look...on a flattish pitch in home conditions. This isn't like they are in India and having to face conditions they are unaccustomed to.
I know Sibley got a score in the first innings, but with him it always just looks like a matter of time they get it in the right spot and his technical is so flawed he can't help but edge it.
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
Do you think the 1922 will move against Boris if he extends lockdown beyond 19th July?
You asked @MaxPB but, butting in, a lot may depend on the 1922 election - see Guido for details. I think it will be the Northern 2019 uptake that will lead the charge to get rid of Boris if he is seen to dither on the 21st and their constituents go ballistic.
"But" away. I'm genuinely interested to see what everyone thinks.
I mean it seems bizarre to think that after winning an 80 seat majority 18 months ago the Tories might move again Boris but on the other hand I can't see them letting lockdown go on much longer either...
I think because of the goodwill he has within the party for winning the biggest Conservative majority since 1987 he will get away with delaying from 21st June to 19th July but if he doesn't fully unlock on 19th July all bets are off would be my best guess.
The thing that strikes me about so many of the wickets, just how technically poor the batsman look...on a flattish pitch at home conditions. This isn't like they are in India and having to face conditions they are unaccustomed to.
This is the t20 generation.
Technique for the longer form game has gone, and who can blame them when the IPL/franchise cricket allows them to earn so much.
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
The conservatives gave people like Michie power over ordinary Brits, something no conservative government would have ever dreamt of doing in the past under any circumstances.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
Susan Michie is a member of Independent Sage, the go to group for the media to attack and undermine the government
The conservatives did not give her a mouthpiece, that was our media
Sorry but Michie is a member of SAGE not independent SAGE.
Well there is the report on scientists apology....
Which is not a report on SAGE, but on a different committee. And while disturbing, therefore doesn’t support your claim.
The reality is, of course, that the problem here is those people who have refused to be vaccinated. They are the ones driving hospital admissions and deaths.
So no, I don’t blame the government, although I think they are bloody fools and the world would be a happier place if they would all jump in a lake. I do to a degree blame SAGE, who appear to have no common sense, Indie SAGE, who are clearly self-important windbags, or the NHS bosses.
But to the greatest extent I blame you. You are restricting my freedom. You are putting my life on hold. You are making me stagger under intolerable and otherwise unnecessary burdens at work trying to provide an education to children, which is hard work at the best of times.
And at the same time you are a hypocrite who lectures me on ‘giving up my freedoms.’ That’s what sets you apart from say, Dura Ace who has never lectured me on any part of my lifestyle.
You are a thousand times worse than Susan Michie. But you have neither the courage nor the ability to see that.
Sad, but there we are. It would be your problem in normal times, but it’s infuriating that you inflict it on the rest of us too.
And now I really am off for the afternoon. Have a good one.
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
A great post and thank you.
Here's the thing. It is not surprising the UK does not want to be free when the government is not showing voters the whole story. Gargantuan debts, furlough and money printing are hiding the hugely destructive effects of restrictions. Right now voters think there is no hit to take.
Johnson goes on ad nauseam about 'caution' but there is absolutely nothing cautious about what he is doing. The UK is engaged in massive and reckless gamble with the country's economy in the near and medium term future. A gamble that could break us for decades.
It was a big gamble when we were all involved in it. Now that some Western countries are deciding to live with covid, its an insane policy. Insane. Investors will soon start to differentiate between the covid brave and the covid cowards.
Those governments in thrall to scientists who will never take a hit could be severely punished.
The flip side is that those who are first movers will benefit mightily
It's funny isn't it: if Covid had been a hypothetical and you'd asked me about Germany vs the UK and how our governments would react, I'd have assumed that Germany would nail vaccine production, but would be overly cautious with restrictions and would be slow to open up.
The UK under Boris Johnson, on the other hand, I'd have assumed would mess up the vaccines, but would have a swashbuckling attitude that would mean we'd open up successfully.
The EU, the US and Israel are correctly opening up while we dither.
Boris: for the love of God, please (a) release the AZN vaccines to people who want them, and (b) open up on the 21st.
On point a - if it were my decision I'd actually give Novavax an emergency use authorisation based on the preliminary data from the PIII trial as we'd get around 10m-12m doses released for bottling at Wockhart and GSK immediately which would get us 3m extra doses per week in 21 days and then 2m per week from current manufacturing.
It's probably about the same risk level as AZ but it doesn't need 4 weeks to reach minimum efficacy and it's already shown better results against existing variants on the same level as Pfizer and Moderna. In terms of neutralising antibodies Novavax has the second best overall immunity provided after Moderna and it only requires a 3 week gap.
That not only gets us over the line, we'd be done with our vaccine programme as Novavax would cover the last 6-7m people and it would free up Pfizer for second doses for the over 25s cohort.
Reminder: none of this would help because vaccines are less than 100% effective and therefore, in the eyes of the catastrophist scientists and the random number modellers, completely useless.
What I want to know is how the virus got from the Wuhan lab, ie the BSL-2 CDC facility where they did much of the research, all the way across the city to the market?
"That did much of the research..."
Cites, please.
‘Much of Shi’s work on gain-of-function in coronaviruses was performed at the BSL2 safety level, as is stated in her publications and other documents. She has said in an interview with Science magazine that “[t]he coronavirus research in our laboratory is conducted in BSL-2 or BSL-3 laboratories.”
‘“It is clear that some or all of this work was being performed using a biosafety standard — biosafety level 2, the biosafety level of a standard US dentist’s office — that would pose an unacceptably high risk of infection of laboratory staff upon contact with a virus having the transmission properties of SARS-CoV-2,” Ebright says.’
The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists is a pretty odd publication - regularly running very anti nuclear power articles, for example.
Jesus Christ Robert, you don’t read anything, do you? You know zero about this. Honestly. It’s a bit embarrassing
It is now widely accepted that the major scientific journals - Nature, Lancet, Scientific American - are deeply compromised on this subject. They accept fraudulent letters denouncing ‘lab leak’ organised by Peter Wuhan Daszak, which declare ‘no conflict of interest’ - a total lie. Yet they refuse to publish contradictory research which investigates lab leak, this has been happening since early 2020
Wade had no choice about where he published. No way Lancet would take it. So he went there, with his seminal article, which had entirely changed the global debate
This sounds like a classic Guardian, biased by omission.....you don't get 5 years in prison for just nicking a mobile phone.
Osime Brown was jailed for stealing a friend’s mobile phone, a crime that he and others say he did not commit. He was sentenced to five years for robbery, attempted robbery and perverting the course of justice.
He was jailed for 5 years for stealing a mobile phone and perverting the course of justice, which was based on sending a Facebook message which said "stop lying".
Everyone, including the prosecution, agree he didn't steal the phone but he was convicted under joint enterprise.
I'm not familiar with the details of the case but this one looks a stinker.
You don't get 5 years for just that. It doesn't pass the smell test. And his codefendants got no jail time. There is clearly more to it.
The guy has lived here lawfully since he was 4, so he should not be deported under absolutely any circumstances. He should be regarded as a citizen due to the amount of time that has passed. If he got 5 years in jail, which sounds unbelievable on the face of it given the apparent crime then he has served his time and that should be the end of that. There really is no need to fish around for vague complexities particular to this case that might justify what is going on.
As I have kept saying, the fact the Home office keep doing this is evidence that it is structurally racist: picking on poor black people and banishing them from the country. Everyone involved, from the home secretary down should just hang their heads in shame. They've learned nothing at all since Windrush. Sending a disabled, autistic young man to Jamaica with no family support is tantamount to a death sentence. In my view, it is no different to George Floyd from being murdered by the police.
That wasn't my point. I wasn't debating if he should be deported or not, I was pointing out that it struck me as a classic example of Guardian bias by omission.
There is no way, 3 people got charged with robbing a phone. 2 got no jail time who stole the phone, and the one who is a good little boy and whose only offense is claimed he sent a facebook message saying "stop lying" and is claimed he didn't even do any of the robbing, got 5 years...5 years...not 5 months for perverting the course of justice...5 years....and he is supposed to have a disability as well. Nah not buying it.
5 years in jail you have to have serious stuff against you.
If that was true, that would be up there with one of the biggest miscarriages of justice ever. And yet after appeals etc etc etc, even the campaigners who want him to stay aren't making hay about the 5 year jail sentence. They are instead saying not fair to deport him.
There must be a record of the case, can you find out what the secret evil crime he did was then?
And as far as I can tell people e have been campaigning on this from the moment he was convicted.
The thing that strikes me about so many of the wickets, just how technically poor the batsman look...on a flattish pitch at home conditions. This isn't like they are in India and having to face conditions they are unaccustomed to.
This is the t20 generation.
Technique for the longer form game has gone, and who can blame them when the IPL/franchise cricket allows them to earn so much.
Yep, it’s difficult to spend time training for Test cricket, when the short game has such massive rewards in IPL.
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
Do you think the 1922 will move against Boris if he extends lockdown beyond 19th July?
You asked @MaxPB but, butting in, a lot may depend on the 1922 election - see Guido for details. I think it will be the Northern 2019 uptake that will lead the charge to get rid of Boris if he is seen to dither on the 21st and their constituents go ballistic.
"But" away. I'm genuinely interested to see what everyone thinks.
I mean it seems bizarre to think that after winning an 80 seat majority 18 months ago the Tories might move again Boris but on the other hand I can't see them letting lockdown go on much longer either...
I think because of the goodwill he has within the party for winning the biggest Conservative majority since 1987 he will get away with delaying from 21st June to 19th July but if he doesn't fully unlock on 19th July all bets are off would be my best guess.
Rolling restrictions will prove wildly popular with the over-85s, so the MPs will do nothing.
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
The conservatives gave people like Michie power over ordinary Brits, something no conservative government would have ever dreamt of doing in the past under any circumstances.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
Susan Michie is a member of Independent Sage, the go to group for the media to attack and undermine the government
The conservatives did not give her a mouthpiece, that was our media
Sorry but Michie is a member of SAGE not independent SAGE.
Well there is the report on scientists apology....
Which is not a report on SAGE, but on a different committee. And while disturbing, therefore doesn’t support your claim.
The reality is, of course, that the problem here is those people who have refused to be vaccinated. They are the ones driving hospital admissions and deaths.
So no, I don’t blame the government, although I think they are bloody fools and the world would be a happier place if they would all jump in a lake. I do to a degree blame SAGE, who appear to have no common sense, Indie SAGE, who are clearly self-important windbags, or the NHS bosses.
But to the greatest extent I blame you. You are restricting my freedom. You are putting my life on hold. You are making me stagger under intolerable and otherwise unnecessary burdens at work trying to provide an education to children, which is hard work at the best of times.
And at the same time you are a hypocrite who lectures me on ‘giving up my freedoms.’ That’s what sets you apart from say, Dura Ace who has never lectured me on any part of my lifestyle.
You are a thousand times worse than Susan Michie. But you have neither the courage nor the ability to see that.
Sad, but there we are. It would be your problem in normal times, but it’s infuriating that you inflict it on the rest of us too.
And now I really am off for the afternoon. Have a good one.
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
A great post and thank you.
Here's the thing. It is not surprising the UK does not want to be free when the government is not showing voters the whole story. Gargantuan debts, furlough and money printing are hiding the hugely destructive effects of restrictions. Right now voters think there is no hit to take.
Johnson goes on ad nauseam about 'caution' but there is absolutely nothing cautious about what he is doing. The UK is engaged in massive and reckless gamble with the country's economy in the near and medium term future. A gamble that could break us for decades.
It was a big gamble when we were all involved in it. Now that some Western countries are deciding to live with covid, its an insane policy. Insane. Investors will soon start to differentiate between the covid brave and the covid cowards.
Those governments in thrall to scientists who will never take a hit could be severely punished.
The flip side is that those who are first movers will benefit mightily
It's funny isn't it: if Covid had been a hypothetical and you'd asked me about Germany vs the UK and how our governments would react, I'd have assumed that Germany would nail vaccine production, but would be overly cautious with restrictions and would be slow to open up.
The UK under Boris Johnson, on the other hand, I'd have assumed would mess up the vaccines, but would have a swashbuckling attitude that would mean we'd open up successfully.
The EU, the US and Israel are correctly opening up while we dither.
Boris: for the love of God, please (a) release the AZN vaccines to people who want them, and (b) open up on the 21st.
On point a - if it were my decision I'd actually give Novavax an emergency use authorisation based on the preliminary data from the PIII trial as we'd get around 10m-12m doses released for bottling at Wockhart and GSK immediately which would get us 3m extra doses per week in 21 days and then 2m per week from current manufacturing.
It's probably about the same risk level as AZ but it doesn't need 4 weeks to reach minimum efficacy and it's already shown better results against existing variants on the same level as Pfizer and Moderna. In terms of neutralising antibodies Novavax has the second best overall immunity provided after Moderna and it only requires a 3 week gap.
That not only gets us over the line, we'd be done with our vaccine programme as Novavax would cover the last 6-7m people and it would free up Pfizer for second doses for the over 25s cohort.
The other option would be to use half doses of Pfizer or Moderna. In the original trials, they looked almost as effective in eliciting antibody response. They should certainly run larger trials with such dosages where the pandemic is at its hottest, as if they were to confirm effectiveness it would massively speed up the rate at which the rest of the world could be vaccinated.
This sounds like a classic Guardian, biased by omission.....you don't get 5 years in prison for just nicking a mobile phone.
Osime Brown was jailed for stealing a friend’s mobile phone, a crime that he and others say he did not commit. He was sentenced to five years for robbery, attempted robbery and perverting the course of justice.
He was jailed for 5 years for stealing a mobile phone and perverting the course of justice, which was based on sending a Facebook message which said "stop lying".
Everyone, including the prosecution, agree he didn't steal the phone but he was convicted under joint enterprise.
I'm not familiar with the details of the case but this one looks a stinker.
You don't get 5 years for just that. It doesn't pass the smell test. And his codefendants got no jail time. There is clearly more to it.
The guy has lived here lawfully since he was 4, so he should not be deported under absolutely any circumstances. He should be regarded as a citizen due to the amount of time that has passed. If he got 5 years in jail, which sounds unbelievable on the face of it given the apparent crime then he has served his time and that should be the end of that. There really is no need to fish around for vague complexities particular to this case that might justify what is going on.
As I have kept saying, the fact the Home office keep doing this is evidence that it is structurally racist: picking on poor black people and banishing them from the country. Everyone involved, from the home secretary down should just hang their heads in shame. They've learned nothing at all since Windrush. Sending a disabled, autistic young man to Jamaica with no family support is tantamount to a death sentence. In my view, it is no different to George Floyd from being murdered by the police.
That wasn't my point. I wasn't debating if he should be deported or not, I was pointing out that it struck me as a classic example of Guardian bias by omission.
There is no way, 3 people got charged with robbing a phone. 2 got no jail time who stole the phone, and the one who is a good little boy and whose only offense is claimed he sent a facebook message saying "stop lying" and is claimed he didn't even do any of the robbing, got 5 years...5 years...not 5 months for perverting the course of justice...5 years....and he is supposed to have a disability as well. Nah not buying it.
5 years in jail you have to have serious stuff against you.
If that was true, that would be up there with one of the biggest miscarriages of justice ever. And yet after appeals etc etc etc, even the campaigners who want him to stay aren't making hay about the 5 year jail sentence. They are instead saying not fair to deport him.
There must be a record of the case, can you find out what the secret evil crime he did was then?
And as far as I can tell people e have been campaigning on this from the moment he was convicted.
He was a juvenile, so hard to find out...but...
According to The Voice, he has committed a series of offences which culminated in a sentence of five years in a Young Offender Institution for this crime.
That suggests no a one off being in the wrong place at wrong time.
What I want to know is how the virus got from the Wuhan lab, ie the BSL-2 CDC facility where they did much of the research, all the way across the city to the market?
I mean, how could that happen?
What I love about the
That could be a photo of Croydon with Chinese place names turned on.
As cellphone-data-suggests-october-shutdown-wuhan-lab-experts-n1202716
And about 1,000 other examples.
No, that’s the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a BSL-4 lab about 10km from the market (I think)
Since the plague began, the scientists in Wuhan have admitted much of their work was done in lower level BSL-2 ancillary labs
‘Much of Shi’s work on gain-of-function in coronaviruses was performed at the BSL2 safety level, as is stated in her publications and other documents. She has said in an interview with Science magazine that “[t]he coronavirus research in our laboratory is conducted in BSL-2 or BSL-3 laboratories.”’
One of these is alleged to be the Wuhan ‘CDC’. I happily confess I can’t prove that’s it in the photo. But I have seen several maps which show the BSL-2 and 3 labs are much nearer the market
As ever, you bluster loudly but you’re embarrassingly ill-informed
Sorry: there is literally ZERO evidence that that photo is of either the wet market or the the Wuhan lab.
It's a photo. With circles on it. Providence unknown.
One of the circles says "Wuhan CDC". Which doesn't exist,
The other says "Market".
And I'm the one ill informed?
Are you high?
You didn’t even do your ‘ten seconds of research’ to find out if there were multiple labs in Wuhan. There are. Oh dear.
You don't even know that photo is from Wuhan.
The only thing we know for sure is that "Wuhan CDC" doesn't exist.
And I'm the one not doing my research?
I HAVE done my research. I’m 99% sure that is a map of central Wuhan. And it correctly identifies the Wuhan wet market
However the circled building appears to be a Ramen bar. Which, I confess, does not sound like an evil bioweapon lab
That said, right next door is a research hospital. Who knows. Where are the other, lower level labs? It’s quite an important detail
I did the same search on Google
Two things: 1. That's a seafood market, so are we sure that's the alleged wet market, anyway? And 2. If you look around the images, the hospital is in the middle of some really fancy office and hotel space.
The Wuhan Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market (Chinese: 武汉华南海鲜批发市场),[1][2] also known as the Huanan Seafood Market[3] (Huanan means 'South China'), was a live animal and seafood market in Jianghan District, Wuhan City, the capital of Hubei Province in Central China.
The market became widely known worldwide after being identified as the 'Ground Zero'…
So, it's down to a simple question: was "Wuhan CDC" (which doesn't exist) actually the lab, or was it a noodle bar?
The CCDC administers a number of laboratories across China, including the biosafety level 2 facility at the Wuhan Center for Disease Control (sometimes confused with the nearby Wuhan Institute of Virology),[5]
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
The conservatives gave people like Michie power over ordinary Brits, something no conservative government would have ever dreamt of doing in the past under any circumstances.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
Susan Michie is a member of Independent Sage, the go to group for the media to attack and undermine the government
The conservatives did not give her a mouthpiece, that was our media
Sorry but Michie is a member of SAGE not independent SAGE.
Well there is the report on scientists apology....
Which is not a report on SAGE, but on a different committee. And while disturbing, therefore doesn’t support your claim.
The reality is, of course, that the problem here is those people who have refused to be vaccinated. They are the ones driving hospital admissions and deaths.
So no, I don’t blame the government, although I think they are bloody fools and the world would be a happier place if they would all jump in a lake. I do to a degree blame SAGE, who appear to have no common sense, Indie SAGE, who are clearly self-important windbags, or the NHS bosses.
But to the greatest extent I blame you. You are restricting my freedom. You are putting my life on hold. You are making me stagger under intolerable and otherwise unnecessary burdens at work trying to provide an education to children, which is hard work at the best of times.
And at the same time you are a hypocrite who lectures me on ‘giving up my freedoms.’ That’s what sets you apart from say, Dura Ace who has never lectured me on any part of my lifestyle.
You are a thousand times worse than Susan Michie. But you have neither the courage nor the ability to see that.
Sad, but there we are. It would be your problem in normal times, but it’s infuriating that you inflict it on the rest of us too.
And now I really am off for the afternoon. Have a good one.
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
A great post and thank you.
Here's the thing. It is not surprising the UK does not want to be free when the government is not showing voters the whole story. Gargantuan debts, furlough and money printing are hiding the hugely destructive effects of restrictions. Right now voters think there is no hit to take.
Johnson goes on ad nauseam about 'caution' but there is absolutely nothing cautious about what he is doing. The UK is engaged in massive and reckless gamble with the country's economy in the near and medium term future. A gamble that could break us for decades.
It was a big gamble when we were all involved in it. Now that some Western countries are deciding to live with covid, its an insane policy. Insane. Investors will soon start to differentiate between the covid brave and the covid cowards.
Those governments in thrall to scientists who will never take a hit could be severely punished.
The flip side is that those who are first movers will benefit mightily
It's funny isn't it: if Covid had been a hypothetical and you'd asked me about Germany vs the UK and how our governments would react, I'd have assumed that Germany would nail vaccine production, but would be overly cautious with restrictions and would be slow to open up.
The UK under Boris Johnson, on the other hand, I'd have assumed would mess up the vaccines, but would have a swashbuckling attitude that would mean we'd open up successfully.
The EU, the US and Israel are correctly opening up while we dither.
Boris: for the love of God, please (a) release the AZN vaccines to people who want them, and (b) open up on the 21st.
On point a - if it were my decision I'd actually give Novavax an emergency use authorisation based on the preliminary data from the PIII trial as we'd get around 10m-12m doses released for bottling at Wockhart and GSK immediately which would get us 3m extra doses per week in 21 days and then 2m per week from current manufacturing.
It's probably about the same risk level as AZ but it doesn't need 4 weeks to reach minimum efficacy and it's already shown better results against existing variants on the same level as Pfizer and Moderna. In terms of neutralising antibodies Novavax has the second best overall immunity provided after Moderna and it only requires a 3 week gap.
That not only gets us over the line, we'd be done with our vaccine programme as Novavax would cover the last 6-7m people and it would free up Pfizer for second doses for the over 25s cohort.
The other option would be to use half doses of Pfizer or Moderna. In the original trials, they looked almost as effective in eliciting antibody response. They should certainly run larger trials with such dosages where the pandemic is at its hottest, as if they were to confirm effectiveness it would massively speed up the rate at which the rest of the world could be vaccinated.
Tbh, I'd be happy with that. It would allow everyone to be covered faster and we could do a sweep up of booster doses in August once the new supply deal comes online. We're currently doing about 1.7m Pfizer/Moderna doses per week as that's the supply, if we could double that figure for first doses and get coverage up to a baseline level it would make a lot of sense.
I'd take anything right now. One of the issues with releasing AZ is that it locks under 30s into an 8 week cycle and most of them don't want to wait 8 weeks for their second dose. Novavax looks like a better bet to me than AZ and we could approve it tomorrow then get the first doses in arms about 20 days from now after certification of the first finished batch completes. I think it's a very small risk and if these numbers were available in January Novavax would have been granted an emergency use authorisation just as Pfizer were with a similar amount of efficacy data. AZ had even less and got one.
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
The conservatives gave people like Michie power over ordinary Brits, something no conservative government would have ever dreamt of doing in the past under any circumstances.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
Susan Michie is a member of Independent Sage, the go to group for the media to attack and undermine the government
The conservatives did not give her a mouthpiece, that was our media
Sorry but Michie is a member of SAGE not independent SAGE.
Well there is the report on scientists apology....
Which is not a report on SAGE, but on a different committee. And while disturbing, therefore doesn’t support your claim.
The reality is, of course, that the problem here is those people who have refused to be vaccinated. They are the ones driving hospital admissions and deaths.
So no, I don’t blame the government, although I think they are bloody fools and the world would be a happier place if they would all jump in a lake. I do to a degree blame SAGE, who appear to have no common sense, Indie SAGE, who are clearly self-important windbags, or the NHS bosses.
But to the greatest extent I blame you. You are restricting my freedom. You are putting my life on hold. You are making me stagger under intolerable and otherwise unnecessary burdens at work trying to provide an education to children, which is hard work at the best of times.
And at the same time you are a hypocrite who lectures me on ‘giving up my freedoms.’ That’s what sets you apart from say, Dura Ace who has never lectured me on any part of my lifestyle.
You are a thousand times worse than Susan Michie. But you have neither the courage nor the ability to see that.
Sad, but there we are. It would be your problem in normal times, but it’s infuriating that you inflict it on the rest of us too.
And now I really am off for the afternoon. Have a good one.
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
A great post and thank you.
Here's the thing. It is not surprising the UK does not want to be free when the government is not showing voters the whole story. Gargantuan debts, furlough and money printing are hiding the hugely destructive effects of restrictions. Right now voters think there is no hit to take.
Johnson goes on ad nauseam about 'caution' but there is absolutely nothing cautious about what he is doing. The UK is engaged in massive and reckless gamble with the country's economy in the near and medium term future. A gamble that could break us for decades.
It was a big gamble when we were all involved in it. Now that some Western countries are deciding to live with covid, its an insane policy. Insane. Investors will soon start to differentiate between the covid brave and the covid cowards.
Those governments in thrall to scientists who will never take a hit could be severely punished.
The flip side is that those who are first movers will benefit mightily
It's funny isn't it: if Covid had been a hypothetical and you'd asked me about Germany vs the UK and how our governments would react, I'd have assumed that Germany would nail vaccine production, but would be overly cautious with restrictions and would be slow to open up.
The UK under Boris Johnson, on the other hand, I'd have assumed would mess up the vaccines, but would have a swashbuckling attitude that would mean we'd open up successfully.
The EU, the US and Israel are correctly opening up while we dither.
Boris: for the love of God, please (a) release the AZN vaccines to people who want them, and (b) open up on the 21st.
On point a - if it were my decision I'd actually give Novavax an emergency use authorisation based on the preliminary data from the PIII trial as we'd get around 10m-12m doses released for bottling at Wockhart and GSK immediately which would get us 3m extra doses per week in 21 days and then 2m per week from current manufacturing.
It's probably about the same risk level as AZ but it doesn't need 4 weeks to reach minimum efficacy and it's already shown better results against existing variants on the same level as Pfizer and Moderna. In terms of neutralising antibodies Novavax has the second best overall immunity provided after Moderna and it only requires a 3 week gap.
That not only gets us over the line, we'd be done with our vaccine programme as Novavax would cover the last 6-7m people and it would free up Pfizer for second doses for the over 25s cohort.
Reminder: none of this would help because vaccines are less than 100% effective and therefore, in the eyes of the catastrophist scientists and the random number modellers, completely useless.
In all seriousness, the overwhelming majority of the concern is the spread amongst the pre-vaccinated. Get them dosed, and the spread collapses.
A decent guesstimate would be that every 3-4 million doses will knock 0.1 off the R rate if it's around 1.5 at the moment. We're doing that every week right now; Max's proposal would supercharge that to nearly 0.2 per week. Whilst gradually pressing down on the cases-to-hospitalisations ratio.
We'd be there three weeks from today, even with Delta. That would certainly give us the July 5th opening at a minimum and might embolden Johnson to go for the 21st of June, anyway.
Frankly, at the very least, the Government should be offering any administrative and managerial help to Novavax to square away the submission that they can.
What I want to know is how the virus got from the Wuhan lab, ie the BSL-2 CDC facility where they did much of the research, all the way across the city to the market?
I mean, how could that happen?
What I love about the
That could be a photo of Croydon with Chinese place names turned on.
As cellphone-data-suggests-october-shutdown-wuhan-lab-experts-n1202716
And about 1,000 other examples.
No, that’s the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a BSL-4 lab about 10km from the market (I think)
Since the plague began, the scientists in Wuhan have admitted much of their work was done in lower level BSL-2 ancillary labs
‘Much of Shi’s work on gain-of-function in coronaviruses was performed at the BSL2 safety level, as is stated in her publications and other documents. She has said in an interview with Science magazine that “[t]he coronavirus research in our laboratory is conducted in BSL-2 or BSL-3 laboratories.”’
One of these is alleged to be the Wuhan ‘CDC’. I happily confess I can’t prove that’s it in the photo. But I have seen several maps which show the BSL-2 and 3 labs are much nearer the market
As ever, you bluster loudly but you’re embarrassingly ill-informed
Sorry: there is literally ZERO evidence that that photo is of either the wet market or the the Wuhan lab.
It's a photo. With circles on it. Providence unknown.
One of the circles says "Wuhan CDC". Which doesn't exist,
The other says "Market".
And I'm the one ill informed?
Are you high?
You didn’t even do your ‘ten seconds of research’ to find out if there were multiple labs in Wuhan. There are. Oh dear.
You don't even know that photo is from Wuhan.
The only thing we know for sure is that "Wuhan CDC" doesn't exist.
And I'm the one not doing my research?
I HAVE done my research. I’m 99% sure that is a map of central Wuhan. And it correctly identifies the Wuhan wet market
However the circled building appears to be a Ramen bar. Which, I confess, does not sound like an evil bioweapon lab
That said, right next door is a research hospital. Who knows. Where are the other, lower level labs? It’s quite an important detail
I did the same search on Google
Two things: 1. That's a seafood market, so are we sure that's the alleged wet market, anyway? And 2. If you look around the images, the hospital is in the middle of some really fancy office and hotel space.
The Wuhan Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market (Chinese: 武汉华南海鲜批发市场),[1][2] also known as the Huanan Seafood Market[3] (Huanan means 'South China'), was a live animal and seafood market in Jianghan District, Wuhan City, the capital of Hubei Province in Central China.
The market became widely known worldwide after being identified as the 'Ground Zero'…
So, it's down to a simple question: was "Wuhan CDC" (which doesn't exist) actually the lab, or was it a noodle bar?
Well, it looks like I’m right and you’re wrong. AGAIN
Check this thread, it links to a live Baidu map which confirms the other red circle is basically correct. That’s the Wuhan Jianghan Disease Prevention and Control Centre
‘The location on the map linked on project-evidence.github.io has changed since the screenshot. Chinese locations have not been accurate on Google Maps in the past, due to restrictions. The correct walking distance between Huanan Seafood Market and Wuhan CDC is most likely 0.5km.’
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
The conservatives gave people like Michie power over ordinary Brits, something no conservative government would have ever dreamt of doing in the past under any circumstances.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
Susan Michie is a member of Independent Sage, the go to group for the media to attack and undermine the government
The conservatives did not give her a mouthpiece, that was our media
Sorry but Michie is a member of SAGE not independent SAGE.
Well there is the report on scientists apology....
Which is not a report on SAGE, but on a different committee. And while disturbing, therefore doesn’t support your claim.
The reality is, of course, that the problem here is those people who have refused to be vaccinated. They are the ones driving hospital admissions and deaths.
So no, I don’t blame the government, although I think they are bloody fools and the world would be a happier place if they would all jump in a lake. I do to a degree blame SAGE, who appear to have no common sense, Indie SAGE, who are clearly self-important windbags, or the NHS bosses.
But to the greatest extent I blame you. You are restricting my freedom. You are putting my life on hold. You are making me stagger under intolerable and otherwise unnecessary burdens at work trying to provide an education to children, which is hard work at the best of times.
And at the same time you are a hypocrite who lectures me on ‘giving up my freedoms.’ That’s what sets you apart from say, Dura Ace who has never lectured me on any part of my lifestyle.
You are a thousand times worse than Susan Michie. But you have neither the courage nor the ability to see that.
Sad, but there we are. It would be your problem in normal times, but it’s infuriating that you inflict it on the rest of us too.
And now I really am off for the afternoon. Have a good one.
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
A great post and thank you.
Here's the thing. It is not surprising the UK does not want to be free when the government is not showing voters the whole story. Gargantuan debts, furlough and money printing are hiding the hugely destructive effects of restrictions. Right now voters think there is no hit to take.
Johnson goes on ad nauseam about 'caution' but there is absolutely nothing cautious about what he is doing. The UK is engaged in massive and reckless gamble with the country's economy in the near and medium term future. A gamble that could break us for decades.
It was a big gamble when we were all involved in it. Now that some Western countries are deciding to live with covid, its an insane policy. Insane. Investors will soon start to differentiate between the covid brave and the covid cowards.
Those governments in thrall to scientists who will never take a hit could be severely punished.
The flip side is that those who are first movers will benefit mightily
It's funny isn't it: if Covid had been a hypothetical and you'd asked me about Germany vs the UK and how our governments would react, I'd have assumed that Germany would nail vaccine production, but would be overly cautious with restrictions and would be slow to open up.
The UK under Boris Johnson, on the other hand, I'd have assumed would mess up the vaccines, but would have a swashbuckling attitude that would mean we'd open up successfully.
The EU, the US and Israel are correctly opening up while we dither.
Boris: for the love of God, please (a) release the AZN vaccines to people who want them, and (b) open up on the 21st.
On point a - if it were my decision I'd actually give Novavax an emergency use authorisation based on the preliminary data from the PIII trial as we'd get around 10m-12m doses released for bottling at Wockhart and GSK immediately which would get us 3m extra doses per week in 21 days and then 2m per week from current manufacturing.
It's probably about the same risk level as AZ but it doesn't need 4 weeks to reach minimum efficacy and it's already shown better results against existing variants on the same level as Pfizer and Moderna. In terms of neutralising antibodies Novavax has the second best overall immunity provided after Moderna and it only requires a 3 week gap.
That not only gets us over the line, we'd be done with our vaccine programme as Novavax would cover the last 6-7m people and it would free up Pfizer for second doses for the over 25s cohort.
Reminder: none of this would help because vaccines are less than 100% effective and therefore, in the eyes of the catastrophist scientists and the random number modellers, completely useless.
In fact Disney World was specifically exempted from the sate law banning mandatory mask wearing.
Ahah - it just removed the rule to wear them Inside. Had recently got rid of outside.
America is powering ahead with reopening and we’re just .. well
More mainly Trump states with GOP governors are restriction free now, the Biden states still tend to have some restrictions and mask mandates though even they are more open than we are at the moment
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
The conservatives gave people like Michie power over ordinary Brits, something no conservative government would have ever dreamt of doing in the past under any circumstances.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
Susan Michie is a member of Independent Sage, the go to group for the media to attack and undermine the government
The conservatives did not give her a mouthpiece, that was our media
Sorry but Michie is a member of SAGE not independent SAGE.
Well there is the report on scientists apology....
Which is not a report on SAGE, but on a different committee. And while disturbing, therefore doesn’t support your claim.
The reality is, of course, that the problem here is those people who have refused to be vaccinated. They are the ones driving hospital admissions and deaths.
So no, I don’t blame the government, although I think they are bloody fools and the world would be a happier place if they would all jump in a lake. I do to a degree blame SAGE, who appear to have no common sense, Indie SAGE, who are clearly self-important windbags, or the NHS bosses.
But to the greatest extent I blame you. You are restricting my freedom. You are putting my life on hold. You are making me stagger under intolerable and otherwise unnecessary burdens at work trying to provide an education to children, which is hard work at the best of times.
And at the same time you are a hypocrite who lectures me on ‘giving up my freedoms.’ That’s what sets you apart from say, Dura Ace who has never lectured me on any part of my lifestyle.
You are a thousand times worse than Susan Michie. But you have neither the courage nor the ability to see that.
Sad, but there we are. It would be your problem in normal times, but it’s infuriating that you inflict it on the rest of us too.
And now I really am off for the afternoon. Have a good one.
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
A great post and thank you.
Here's the thing. It is not surprising the UK does not want to be free when the government is not showing voters the whole story. Gargantuan debts, furlough and money printing are hiding the hugely destructive effects of restrictions. Right now voters think there is no hit to take.
Johnson goes on ad nauseam about 'caution' but there is absolutely nothing cautious about what he is doing. The UK is engaged in massive and reckless gamble with the country's economy in the near and medium term future. A gamble that could break us for decades.
It was a big gamble when we were all involved in it. Now that some Western countries are deciding to live with covid, its an insane policy. Insane. Investors will soon start to differentiate between the covid brave and the covid cowards.
Those governments in thrall to scientists who will never take a hit could be severely punished.
The flip side is that those who are first movers will benefit mightily
It's funny isn't it: if Covid had been a hypothetical and you'd asked me about Germany vs the UK and how our governments would react, I'd have assumed that Germany would nail vaccine production, but would be overly cautious with restrictions and would be slow to open up.
The UK under Boris Johnson, on the other hand, I'd have assumed would mess up the vaccines, but would have a swashbuckling attitude that would mean we'd open up successfully.
The EU, the US and Israel are correctly opening up while we dither.
Boris: for the love of God, please (a) release the AZN vaccines to people who want them, and (b) open up on the 21st.
On point a - if it were my decision I'd actually give Novavax an emergency use authorisation based on the preliminary data from the PIII trial as we'd get around 10m-12m doses released for bottling at Wockhart and GSK immediately which would get us 3m extra doses per week in 21 days and then 2m per week from current manufacturing.
It's probably about the same risk level as AZ but it doesn't need 4 weeks to reach minimum efficacy and it's already shown better results against existing variants on the same level as Pfizer and Moderna. In terms of neutralising antibodies Novavax has the second best overall immunity provided after Moderna and it only requires a 3 week gap.
That not only gets us over the line, we'd be done with our vaccine programme as Novavax would cover the last 6-7m people and it would free up Pfizer for second doses for the over 25s cohort.
The other option would be to use half doses of Pfizer or Moderna. In the original trials, they looked almost as effective in eliciting antibody response. They should certainly run larger trials with such dosages where the pandemic is at its hottest, as if they were to confirm effectiveness it would massively speed up the rate at which the rest of the world could be vaccinated.
That was AZ, wasn’t it? Caused by an error in one of the trials.
Anyway I still think that vaccines (and the link to rising case numbers) aren’t the issue. They are the excuse, allowing the scientists to produce new models on the grounds that “things have changed”. The scientists haven’t produced a single original model throughout this whole pandemic. They ALWAYS show basically the same thing. I suspect that every model Ferguson has ever produced shows the same thing. A range of scenarios ranging from the extremely benign to the very scary. And the Govt being encouraged to take a cautious approach on the basis of the scary ones. And because there’s a range of scenarios they can never be accused of getting it wrong. Because they always make sure that the inputs are things of which they are uncertain.
The thing that strikes me about so many of the wickets, just how technically poor the batsman look...on a flattish pitch at home conditions. This isn't like they are in India and having to face conditions they are unaccustomed to.
This is the t20 generation.
Technique for the longer form game has gone, and who can blame them when the IPL/franchise cricket allows them to earn so much.
Yep, it’s difficult to spend time training for Test cricket, when the short game has such massive rewards in IPL.
None of this lot have been near the IPL. They’ve all been playing 4 day cricket for the last two months.
It’s the absence of the IPL players that means we have this shower.
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
Do you think the 1922 will move against Boris if he extends lockdown beyond 19th July?
Depends what happens in the polls and on Thursday, if there is not much leakage to ReformUK than Boris is fine.
If Boris' announcement cancelling Freedom Day proves as disastrous as May's announcement cancelling Brexit in Spring 2019 was to Tory prospects and there is again Tory leakage to Farage and Tice then he will have a problem
In fact Disney World was specifically exempted from the sate law banning mandatory mask wearing.
Ahah - it just removed the rule to wear them Inside. Had recently got rid of outside.
America is powering ahead with reopening and we’re just .. well
More manly Trump states with GOP governors are restriction free now, the Biden states still tend to have some restrictions and mask mandates though even they are more open than we are at the moment
Are these "manly" States ready for the Indian variant with less than 50% vaccinated in some?
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
The conservatives gave people like Michie power over ordinary Brits, something no conservative government would have ever dreamt of doing in the past under any circumstances.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
Susan Michie is a member of Independent Sage, the go to group for the media to attack and undermine the government
The conservatives did not give her a mouthpiece, that was our media
Sorry but Michie is a member of SAGE not independent SAGE.
Well there is the report on scientists apology....
Which is not a report on SAGE, but on a different committee. And while disturbing, therefore doesn’t support your claim.
The reality is, of course, that the problem here is those people who have refused to be vaccinated. They are the ones driving hospital admissions and deaths.
So no, I don’t blame the government, although I think they are bloody fools and the world would be a happier place if they would all jump in a lake. I do to a degree blame SAGE, who appear to have no common sense, Indie SAGE, who are clearly self-important windbags, or the NHS bosses.
But to the greatest extent I blame you. You are restricting my freedom. You are putting my life on hold. You are making me stagger under intolerable and otherwise unnecessary burdens at work trying to provide an education to children, which is hard work at the best of times.
And at the same time you are a hypocrite who lectures me on ‘giving up my freedoms.’ That’s what sets you apart from say, Dura Ace who has never lectured me on any part of my lifestyle.
You are a thousand times worse than Susan Michie. But you have neither the courage nor the ability to see that.
Sad, but there we are. It would be your problem in normal times, but it’s infuriating that you inflict it on the rest of us too.
And now I really am off for the afternoon. Have a good one.
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
A great post and thank you.
Here's the thing. It is not surprising the UK does not want to be free when the government is not showing voters the whole story. Gargantuan debts, furlough and money printing are hiding the hugely destructive effects of restrictions. Right now voters think there is no hit to take.
Johnson goes on ad nauseam about 'caution' but there is absolutely nothing cautious about what he is doing. The UK is engaged in massive and reckless gamble with the country's economy in the near and medium term future. A gamble that could break us for decades.
It was a big gamble when we were all involved in it. Now that some Western countries are deciding to live with covid, its an insane policy. Insane. Investors will soon start to differentiate between the covid brave and the covid cowards.
Those governments in thrall to scientists who will never take a hit could be severely punished.
The flip side is that those who are first movers will benefit mightily
It's funny isn't it: if Covid had been a hypothetical and you'd asked me about Germany vs the UK and how our governments would react, I'd have assumed that Germany would nail vaccine production, but would be overly cautious with restrictions and would be slow to open up.
The UK under Boris Johnson, on the other hand, I'd have assumed would mess up the vaccines, but would have a swashbuckling attitude that would mean we'd open up successfully.
The EU, the US and Israel are correctly opening up while we dither.
Boris: for the love of God, please (a) release the AZN vaccines to people who want them, and (b) open up on the 21st.
On point a - if it were my decision I'd actually give Novavax an emergency use authorisation based on the preliminary data from the PIII trial as we'd get around 10m-12m doses released for bottling at Wockhart and GSK immediately which would get us 3m extra doses per week in 21 days and then 2m per week from current manufacturing.
It's probably about the same risk level as AZ but it doesn't need 4 weeks to reach minimum efficacy and it's already shown better results against existing variants on the same level as Pfizer and Moderna. In terms of neutralising antibodies Novavax has the second best overall immunity provided after Moderna and it only requires a 3 week gap.
That not only gets us over the line, we'd be done with our vaccine programme as Novavax would cover the last 6-7m people and it would free up Pfizer for second doses for the over 25s cohort.
Reminder: none of this would help because vaccines are less than 100% effective and therefore, in the eyes of the catastrophist scientists and the random number modellers, completely useless.
How many vaccines are 100% effective.
None, obviously. The point being that there's always an excuse to ignore anything positive that's happening and catastrophise.
In fact Disney World was specifically exempted from the sate law banning mandatory mask wearing.
Ahah - it just removed the rule to wear them Inside. Had recently got rid of outside.
America is powering ahead with reopening and we’re just .. well
More manly Trump states with GOP governors are restriction free now, the Biden states still tend to have some restrictions and mask mandates though even they are more open than we are at the moment
Are these "manly" States ready for the Indian variant with less than 50% vaccinated in some?
It would seem so, Trump voters tend to be anti Vaxxers too
In fact Disney World was specifically exempted from the sate law banning mandatory mask wearing.
Ahah - it just removed the rule to wear them Inside. Had recently got rid of outside.
America is powering ahead with reopening and we’re just .. well
More manly Trump states with GOP governors are restriction free now, the Biden states still tend to have some restrictions and mask mandates though even they are more open than we are at the moment
By the end of this week, even California will be (largely) restriction free. The US has basically reopened in every state.
The places that probably do need to worry are in the Deep South, where Delta is starting (from a very low base) to hit places with low levels of vaccine uptake.
The thing that strikes me about so many of the wickets, just how technically poor the batsman look...on a flattish pitch at home conditions. This isn't like they are in India and having to face conditions they are unaccustomed to.
This is the t20 generation.
Technique for the longer form game has gone, and who can blame them when the IPL/franchise cricket allows them to earn so much.
Yep, it’s difficult to spend time training for Test cricket, when the short game has such massive rewards in IPL.
Never had any interest in short form. I find it really dull. It’s like 5-a-side football to me.
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
Do you think the 1922 will move against Boris if he extends lockdown beyond 19th July?
You asked @MaxPB but, butting in, a lot may depend on the 1922 election - see Guido for details. I think it will be the Northern 2019 uptake that will lead the charge to get rid of Boris if he is seen to dither on the 21st and their constituents go ballistic.
They would be stupid to do so.
Boris’s replacement is almost certain to ditch the “levelling up” commitments.
Well, I’m sure they’ll pay lip service to it, but the funding will evaporate.
What I want to know is how the virus got from the Wuhan lab, ie the BSL-2 CDC facility where they did much of the research, all the way across the city to the market?
I mean, how could that happen?
What I love about the
That could be a photo of Croydon with Chinese place names turned on.
As cellphone-data-suggests-october-shutdown-wuhan-lab-experts-n1202716
And about 1,000 other examples.
No, that’s the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a BSL-4 lab about 10km from the market (I think)
Since the plague began, the scientists in Wuhan have admitted much of their work was done in lower level BSL-2 ancillary labs
‘Much of Shi’s work on gain-of-function in coronaviruses was performed at the BSL2 safety level, as is stated in her publications and other documents. She has said in an interview with Science magazine that “[t]he coronavirus research in our laboratory is conducted in BSL-2 or BSL-3 laboratories.”’
One of these is alleged to be the Wuhan ‘CDC’. I happily confess I can’t prove that’s it in the photo. But I have seen several maps which show the BSL-2 and 3 labs are much nearer the market
As ever, you bluster loudly but you’re embarrassingly ill-informed
Sorry: there is literally ZERO evidence that that photo is of either the wet market or the the Wuhan lab.
It's a photo. With circles on it. Providence unknown.
One of the circles says "Wuhan CDC". Which doesn't exist,
The other says "Market".
And I'm the one ill informed?
Are you high?
You didn’t even do your ‘ten seconds of research’ to find out if there were multiple labs in Wuhan. There are. Oh dear.
You don't even know that photo is from Wuhan.
The only thing we know for sure is that "Wuhan CDC" doesn't exist.
And I'm the one not doing my research?
I HAVE done my research. I’m 99% sure that is a map of central Wuhan. And it correctly identifies the Wuhan wet market
However the circled building appears to be a Ramen bar. Which, I confess, does not sound like an evil bioweapon lab
That said, right next door is a research hospital. Who knows. Where are the other, lower level labs? It’s quite an important detail
I did the same search on Google
Two things: 1. That's a seafood market, so are we sure that's the alleged wet market, anyway? And 2. If you look around the images, the hospital is in the middle of some really fancy office and hotel space.
The Wuhan Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market (Chinese: 武汉华南海鲜批发市场),[1][2] also known as the Huanan Seafood Market[3] (Huanan means 'South China'), was a live animal and seafood market in Jianghan District, Wuhan City, the capital of Hubei Province in Central China.
The market became widely known worldwide after being identified as the 'Ground Zero'…
So, it's down to a simple question: was "Wuhan CDC" (which doesn't exist) actually the lab, or was it a noodle bar?
Well, it looks like I’m right and you’re wrong. AGAIN
Check this thread, it links to a live Baidu map which confirms the other red circle is basically correct. That’s the Wuhan Jianghan Disease Prevention and Control Centre
‘The location on the map linked on project-evidence.github.io has changed since the screenshot. Chinese locations have not been accurate on Google Maps in the past, due to restrictions. The correct walking distance between Huanan Seafood Market and Wuhan CDC is most likely 0.5km.’
A short while ago a plane took off from LBA. I thought I'd take a look to see where it was going - Ryanair to Faro.
Are they taking the bloody piss?
Earlier today Wor Lass took part in some sort of 'World Outdoor Knitting Day' event. No, I'd not heard of it either.
I'm wondering what is left to leak to the Sunday papers. I suppose in recent days the stories have gone 'two weeks', 'two to four weeks', 'four weeks', so perhaps we are due 'at least four weeks'?
In fact Disney World was specifically exempted from the sate law banning mandatory mask wearing.
Ahah - it just removed the rule to wear them Inside. Had recently got rid of outside.
America is powering ahead with reopening and we’re just .. well
More manly Trump states with GOP governors are restriction free now, the Biden states still tend to have some restrictions and mask mandates though even they are more open than we are at the moment
By the end of this week, even California will be (largely) restriction free. The US has basically reopened in every state.
The places that probably do need to worry are in the Deep South, where Delta is starting (from a very low base) to hit places with low levels of vaccine uptake.
California is well behind UK in vaccination. If it hits here hard, it's going to hit California even harder.
What I want to know is how the virus got from the Wuhan lab, ie the BSL-2 CDC facility where they did much of the research, all the way across the city to the market?
I mean, how could that happen?
What I love about the
That could be a photo of Croydon with Chinese place names turned on.
As cellphone-data-suggests-october-shutdown-wuhan-lab-experts-n1202716
And about 1,000 other examples.
No, that’s the Wuhan Institute of Virology,
One of these is
As ever, you bluster loudly but you’re embarrassingly ill-informed
Sorry: there is literally ZERO evidence that that photo is of either the wet market or the the Wuhan lab.
It's a photo. With circles on it. Providence unknown.
One of the circles says "Wuhan CDC". Which doesn't exist,
The other says "Market".
And I'm the one ill informed?
Are you high?
You didn’t even do your ‘ten seconds of research’ to find out if there were multiple labs in Wuhan. There are. Oh dear.
You don't even know that photo is from Wuhan.
The only thing we know for sure is that "Wuhan CDC" doesn't exist.
And I'm the one not doing my research?
I HAVE done my research. I’m 99% sure that is a map of central Wuhan. And it correctly identifies the Wuhan wet market
However the circled building appears to be a Ramen bar. Which, I confess, does not sound like an evil bioweapon lab
That said, right next door is a research hospital. Who knows. Where are the other, lower level labs? It’s quite an important detail
I did the same search on Google
Two things: 1. That's a seafood market, so are we sure that's the alleged wet market, anyway? And 2. If you look around the images, the hospital is in the middle of some really fancy office and hotel space.
The Wuhan Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market (Chinese: 武汉华南海鲜批发市场),[1][2] also known as the Huanan Seafood Market[3] (Huanan means 'South China'), was a live animal and seafood market in Jianghan District, Wuhan City, the capital of Hubei Province in Central China.
The market became widely known worldwide after being identified as the 'Ground Zero'…
So, it's down to a simple question: was "Wuhan CDC" (which doesn't exist) actually the lab, or was it a noodle bar?
I’m off for a walk in the park. I just want to tot up your score-sheet today. It’s quite impressive
I posted a map/photo positing the idea that there was a lower level Wuhan lab much nearer the market
Your reaction was this:
You said it was probably Croydon: it isn’t
You denied it was Wuhan: it is
You said it wasn’t the wet market: yet it is
You said it was a seafood market: they’re the same
You said ten seconds of research would prove me wrong: ten seconds proved me right
You thought I was talking about the Wuhan Institute of Virology: I wasn’t
You thought there was only one lab in Wuhan: there’s more
You had no idea why Wade would publish in the Bulletin: do some reading
You said the Wuhan CDC does not exist: it does
You said that the other red circle was not a Chinese lab: Chinese Google says it is
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
The conservatives gave people like Michie power over ordinary Brits, something no conservative government would have ever dreamt of doing in the past under any circumstances.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
Susan Michie is a member of Independent Sage, the go to group for the media to attack and undermine the government
The conservatives did not give her a mouthpiece, that was our media
Sorry but Michie is a member of SAGE not independent SAGE.
Well there is the report on scientists apology....
Which is not a report on SAGE, but on a different committee. And while disturbing, therefore doesn’t support your claim.
The reality is, of course, that the problem here is those people who have refused to be vaccinated. They are the ones driving hospital admissions and deaths.
So no, I don’t blame the government, although I think they are bloody fools and the world would be a happier place if they would all jump in a lake. I do to a degree blame SAGE, who appear to have no common sense, Indie SAGE, who are clearly self-important windbags, or the NHS bosses.
But to the greatest extent I blame you. You are restricting my freedom. You are putting my life on hold. You are making me stagger under intolerable and otherwise unnecessary burdens at work trying to provide an education to children, which is hard work at the best of times.
And at the same time you are a hypocrite who lectures me on ‘giving up my freedoms.’ That’s what sets you apart from say, Dura Ace who has never lectured me on any part of my lifestyle.
You are a thousand times worse than Susan Michie. But you have neither the courage nor the ability to see that.
Sad, but there we are. It would be your problem in normal times, but it’s infuriating that you inflict it on the rest of us too.
And now I really am off for the afternoon. Have a good one.
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
A great post and thank you.
Here's the thing. It is not surprising the UK does not want to be free when the government is not showing voters the whole story. Gargantuan debts, furlough and money printing are hiding the hugely destructive effects of restrictions. Right now voters think there is no hit to take.
Johnson goes on ad nauseam about 'caution' but there is absolutely nothing cautious about what he is doing. The UK is engaged in massive and reckless gamble with the country's economy in the near and medium term future. A gamble that could break us for decades.
It was a big gamble when we were all involved in it. Now that some Western countries are deciding to live with covid, its an insane policy. Insane. Investors will soon start to differentiate between the covid brave and the covid cowards.
Those governments in thrall to scientists who will never take a hit could be severely punished.
The flip side is that those who are first movers will benefit mightily
It's funny isn't it: if Covid had been a hypothetical and you'd asked me about Germany vs the UK and how our governments would react, I'd have assumed that Germany would nail vaccine production, but would be overly cautious with restrictions and would be slow to open up.
The UK under Boris Johnson, on the other hand, I'd have assumed would mess up the vaccines, but would have a swashbuckling attitude that would mean we'd open up successfully.
The EU, the US and Israel are correctly opening up while we dither.
Boris: for the love of God, please (a) release the AZN vaccines to people who want them, and (b) open up on the 21st.
On point a - if it were my decision I'd actually give Novavax an emergency use authorisation based on the preliminary data from the PIII trial as we'd get around 10m-12m doses released for bottling at Wockhart and GSK immediately which would get us 3m extra doses per week in 21 days and then 2m per week from current manufacturing.
It's probably about the same risk level as AZ but it doesn't need 4 weeks to reach minimum efficacy and it's already shown better results against existing variants on the same level as Pfizer and Moderna. In terms of neutralising antibodies Novavax has the second best overall immunity provided after Moderna and it only requires a 3 week gap.
That not only gets us over the line, we'd be done with our vaccine programme as Novavax would cover the last 6-7m people and it would free up Pfizer for second doses for the over 25s cohort.
Reminder: none of this would help because vaccines are less than 100% effective and therefore, in the eyes of the catastrophist scientists and the random number modellers, completely useless.
How many vaccines are 100% effective.
None, obviously. The point being that there's always an excuse to ignore anything positive that's happening and catastrophise.
In fact Disney World was specifically exempted from the sate law banning mandatory mask wearing.
Ahah - it just removed the rule to wear them Inside. Had recently got rid of outside.
America is powering ahead with reopening and we’re just .. well
More manly Trump states with GOP governors are restriction free now, the Biden states still tend to have some restrictions and mask mandates though even they are more open than we are at the moment
By the end of this week, even California will be (largely) restriction free. The US has basically reopened in every state.
The places that probably do need to worry are in the Deep South, where Delta is starting (from a very low base) to hit places with low levels of vaccine uptake.
It hasn't.
I make it 22 out of 25 Trump voting states have fully reopened but only 9 out of 25 Biden voting states have fully reopened and neither has DC either
What I want to know is how the virus got from the Wuhan lab, ie the BSL-2 CDC facility where they did much of the research, all the way across the city to the market?
I mean, how could that happen?
What I love about the
That could be a photo of Croydon with Chinese place names turned on.
As cellphone-data-suggests-october-shutdown-wuhan-lab-experts-n1202716
And about 1,000 other examples.
No, that’s the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a BSL-4 lab about 10km from the market (I think)
Since the plague began, the scientists in Wuhan have admitted much of their work was done in lower level BSL-2 ancillary labs
‘Much of Shi’s work on gain-of-function in coronaviruses was performed at the BSL2 safety level, as is stated in her publications and other documents. She has said in an interview with Science magazine that “[t]he coronavirus research in our laboratory is conducted in BSL-2 or BSL-3 laboratories.”’
One of these is alleged to be the Wuhan ‘CDC’. I happily confess I can’t prove that’s it in the photo. But I have seen several maps which show the BSL-2 and 3 labs are much nearer the market
As ever, you bluster loudly but you’re embarrassingly ill-informed
Sorry: there is literally ZERO evidence that that photo is of either the wet market or the the Wuhan lab.
It's a photo. With circles on it. Providence unknown.
One of the circles says "Wuhan CDC". Which doesn't exist,
The other says "Market".
And I'm the one ill informed?
Are you high?
You didn’t even do your ‘ten seconds of research’ to find out if there were multiple labs in Wuhan. There are. Oh dear.
You don't even know that photo is from Wuhan.
The only thing we know for sure is that "Wuhan CDC" doesn't exist.
And I'm the one not doing my research?
I HAVE done my research. I’m 99% sure that is a map of central Wuhan. And it correctly identifies the Wuhan wet market
However the circled building appears to be a Ramen bar. Which, I confess, does not sound like an evil bioweapon lab
That said, right next door is a research hospital. Who knows. Where are the other, lower level labs? It’s quite an important detail
I did the same search on Google
Two things: 1. That's a seafood market, so are we sure that's the alleged wet market, anyway? And 2. If you look around the images, the hospital is in the middle of some really fancy office and hotel space.
The Wuhan Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market (Chinese: 武汉华南海鲜批发市场),[1][2] also known as the Huanan Seafood Market[3] (Huanan means 'South China'), was a live animal and seafood market in Jianghan District, Wuhan City, the capital of Hubei Province in Central China.
The market became widely known worldwide after being identified as the 'Ground Zero'…
So, it's down to a simple question: was "Wuhan CDC" (which doesn't exist) actually the lab, or was it a noodle bar?
Well, it looks like I’m right and you’re wrong. AGAIN
Check this thread, it links to a live Baidu map which confirms the other red circle is basically correct. That’s the Wuhan Jianghan Disease Prevention and Control Centre
‘The location on the map linked on project-evidence.github.io has changed since the screenshot. Chinese locations have not been accurate on Google Maps in the past, due to restrictions. The correct walking distance between Huanan Seafood Market and Wuhan CDC is most likely 0.5km.’
This sounds like a classic Guardian, biased by omission.....you don't get 5 years in prison for just nicking a mobile phone.
Osime Brown was jailed for stealing a friend’s mobile phone, a crime that he and others say he did not commit. He was sentenced to five years for robbery, attempted robbery and perverting the course of justice.
He was jailed for 5 years for stealing a mobile phone and perverting the course of justice, which was based on sending a Facebook message which said "stop lying".
Everyone, including the prosecution, agree he didn't steal the phone but he was convicted under joint enterprise.
I'm not familiar with the details of the case but this one looks a stinker.
You don't get 5 years for just that. It doesn't pass the smell test. And his codefendants got no jail time. There is clearly more to it.
The guy has lived here lawfully since he was 4, so he should not be deported under absolutely any circumstances. He should be regarded as a citizen due to the amount of time that has passed. If he got 5 years in jail, which sounds unbelievable on the face of it given the apparent crime then he has served his time and that should be the end of that. There really is no need to fish around for vague complexities particular to this case that might justify what is going on.
As I have kept saying, the fact the Home office keep doing this is evidence that it is structurally racist: picking on poor black people and banishing them from the country. Everyone involved, from the home secretary down should just hang their heads in shame. They've learned nothing at all since Windrush. Sending a disabled, autistic young man to Jamaica with no family support is tantamount to a death sentence. In my view, it is no different to George Floyd from being murdered by the police.
As the Delta variant of the coronavirus spreads in southeastern China, doctors say they are finding that the symptoms are different and more dangerous than those they saw when the the virus started spreading in late 2019 in Wuhan.
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
The conservatives gave people like Michie power over ordinary Brits, something no conservative government would have ever dreamt of doing in the past under any circumstances.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
Susan Michie is a member of Independent Sage, the go to group for the media to attack and undermine the government
The conservatives did not give her a mouthpiece, that was our media
Sorry but Michie is a member of SAGE not independent SAGE.
Well there is the report on scientists apology....
Which is not a report on SAGE, but on a different committee. And while disturbing, therefore doesn’t support your claim.
The reality is, of course, that the problem here is those people who have refused to be vaccinated. They are the ones driving hospital admissions and deaths.
So no, I don’t blame the government, although I think they are bloody fools and the world would be a happier place if they would all jump in a lake. I do to a degree blame SAGE, who appear to have no common sense, Indie SAGE, who are clearly self-important windbags, or the NHS bosses.
But to the greatest extent I blame you. You are restricting my freedom. You are putting my life on hold. You are making me stagger under intolerable and otherwise unnecessary burdens at work trying to provide an education to children, which is hard work at the best of times.
And at the same time you are a hypocrite who lectures me on ‘giving up my freedoms.’ That’s what sets you apart from say, Dura Ace who has never lectured me on any part of my lifestyle.
You are a thousand times worse than Susan Michie. But you have neither the courage nor the ability to see that.
Sad, but there we are. It would be your problem in normal times, but it’s infuriating that you inflict it on the rest of us too.
And now I really am off for the afternoon. Have a good one.
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
A great post and thank you.
Here's the thing. It is not surprising the UK does not want to be free when the government is not showing voters the whole story. Gargantuan debts, furlough and money printing are hiding the hugely destructive effects of restrictions. Right now voters think there is no hit to take.
Johnson goes on ad nauseam about 'caution' but there is absolutely nothing cautious about what he is doing. The UK is engaged in massive and reckless gamble with the country's economy in the near and medium term future. A gamble that could break us for decades.
It was a big gamble when we were all involved in it. Now that some Western countries are deciding to live with covid, its an insane policy. Insane. Investors will soon start to differentiate between the covid brave and the covid cowards.
Those governments in thrall to scientists who will never take a hit could be severely punished.
The flip side is that those who are first movers will benefit mightily
It's funny isn't it: if Covid had been a hypothetical and you'd asked me about Germany vs the UK and how our governments would react, I'd have assumed that Germany would nail vaccine production, but would be overly cautious with restrictions and would be slow to open up.
The UK under Boris Johnson, on the other hand, I'd have assumed would mess up the vaccines, but would have a swashbuckling attitude that would mean we'd open up successfully.
The EU, the US and Israel are correctly opening up while we dither.
Boris: for the love of God, please (a) release the AZN vaccines to people who want them, and (b) open up on the 21st.
On point a - if it were my decision I'd actually give Novavax an emergency use authorisation based on the preliminary data from the PIII trial as we'd get around 10m-12m doses released for bottling at Wockhart and GSK immediately which would get us 3m extra doses per week in 21 days and then 2m per week from current manufacturing.
It's probably about the same risk level as AZ but it doesn't need 4 weeks to reach minimum efficacy and it's already shown better results against existing variants on the same level as Pfizer and Moderna. In terms of neutralising antibodies Novavax has the second best overall immunity provided after Moderna and it only requires a 3 week gap.
That not only gets us over the line, we'd be done with our vaccine programme as Novavax would cover the last 6-7m people and it would free up Pfizer for second doses for the over 25s cohort.
The other option would be to use half doses of Pfizer or Moderna. In the original trials, they looked almost as effective in eliciting antibody response. They should certainly run larger trials with such dosages where the pandemic is at its hottest, as if they were to confirm effectiveness it would massively speed up the rate at which the rest of the world could be vaccinated.
That was AZ, wasn’t it? Caused by an error in one of the trials.
Anyway I still think that vaccines (and the link to rising case numbers) aren’t the issue. They are the excuse, allowing the scientists to produce new models on the grounds that “things have changed”. The scientists haven’t produced a single original model throughout this whole pandemic. They ALWAYS show basically the same thing. I suspect that every model Ferguson has ever produced shows the same thing. A range of scenarios ranging from the extremely benign to the very scary. And the Govt being encouraged to take a cautious approach on the basis of the scary ones. And because there’s a range of scenarios they can never be accused of getting it wrong. Because they always make sure that the inputs are things of which they are uncertain.
Ferguson failed to get F&M, BSE or swine flu right, and predicted 90,000 deaths in Sweden by July 2020 with no lockdown. There were ~8,000.
No lockdown was standard worldwide public health policy for >100 years and was in the UK 2011 pandemic plan. It was still the UK policy in Febrary 2020 and would have been the least bad way to deal with SARS-CoV-2.
Maybe this is why we got lockdowns, aka the most stupid public health policy in my lifetime
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
The conservatives gave people like Michie power over ordinary Brits, something no conservative government would have ever dreamt of doing in the past under any circumstances.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
Susan Michie is a member of Independent Sage, the go to group for the media to attack and undermine the government
The conservatives did not give her a mouthpiece, that was our media
Sorry but Michie is a member of SAGE not independent SAGE.
Well there is the report on scientists apology....
Which is not a report on SAGE, but on a different committee. And while disturbing, therefore doesn’t support your claim.
The reality is, of course, that the problem here is those people who have refused to be vaccinated. They are the ones driving hospital admissions and deaths.
So no, I don’t blame the government, although I think they are bloody fools and the world would be a happier place if they would all jump in a lake. I do to a degree blame SAGE, who appear to have no common sense, Indie SAGE, who are clearly self-important windbags, or the NHS bosses.
But to the greatest extent I blame you. You are restricting my freedom. You are putting my life on hold. You are making me stagger under intolerable and otherwise unnecessary burdens at work trying to provide an education to children, which is hard work at the best of times.
And at the same time you are a hypocrite who lectures me on ‘giving up my freedoms.’ That’s what sets you apart from say, Dura Ace who has never lectured me on any part of my lifestyle.
You are a thousand times worse than Susan Michie. But you have neither the courage nor the ability to see that.
Sad, but there we are. It would be your problem in normal times, but it’s infuriating that you inflict it on the rest of us too.
And now I really am off for the afternoon. Have a good one.
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
A great post and thank you.
Here's the thing. It is not surprising the UK does not want to be free when the government is not showing voters the whole story. Gargantuan debts, furlough and money printing are hiding the hugely destructive effects of restrictions. Right now voters think there is no hit to take.
Johnson goes on ad nauseam about 'caution' but there is absolutely nothing cautious about what he is doing. The UK is engaged in massive and reckless gamble with the country's economy in the near and medium term future. A gamble that could break us for decades.
It was a big gamble when we were all involved in it. Now that some Western countries are deciding to live with covid, its an insane policy. Insane. Investors will soon start to differentiate between the covid brave and the covid cowards.
Those governments in thrall to scientists who will never take a hit could be severely punished.
The flip side is that those who are first movers will benefit mightily
It's funny isn't it: if Covid had been a hypothetical and you'd asked me about Germany vs the UK and how our governments would react, I'd have assumed that Germany would nail vaccine production, but would be overly cautious with restrictions and would be slow to open up.
The UK under Boris Johnson, on the other hand, I'd have assumed would mess up the vaccines, but would have a swashbuckling attitude that would mean we'd open up successfully.
The EU, the US and Israel are correctly opening up while we dither.
Boris: for the love of God, please (a) release the AZN vaccines to people who want them, and (b) open up on the 21st.
On point a - if it were my decision I'd actually give Novavax an emergency use authorisation based on the preliminary data from the PIII trial as we'd get around 10m-12m doses released for bottling at Wockhart and GSK immediately which would get us 3m extra doses per week in 21 days and then 2m per week from current manufacturing.
It's probably about the same risk level as AZ but it doesn't need 4 weeks to reach minimum efficacy and it's already shown better results against existing variants on the same level as Pfizer and Moderna. In terms of neutralising antibodies Novavax has the second best overall immunity provided after Moderna and it only requires a 3 week gap.
That not only gets us over the line, we'd be done with our vaccine programme as Novavax would cover the last 6-7m people and it would free up Pfizer for second doses for the over 25s cohort.
The other option would be to use half doses of Pfizer or Moderna. In the original trials, they looked almost as effective in eliciting antibody response. They should certainly run larger trials with such dosages where the pandemic is at its hottest, as if they were to confirm effectiveness it would massively speed up the rate at which the rest of the world could be vaccinated.
That was AZ, wasn’t it? Caused by an error in one of the trials.
Anyway I still think that vaccines (and the link to rising case numbers) aren’t the issue. They are the excuse, allowing the scientists to produce new models on the grounds that “things have changed”. The scientists haven’t produced a single original model throughout this whole pandemic. They ALWAYS show basically the same thing. I suspect that every model Ferguson has ever produced shows the same thing. A range of scenarios ranging from the extremely benign to the very scary. And the Govt being encouraged to take a cautious approach on the basis of the scary ones. And because there’s a range of scenarios they can never be accused of getting it wrong. Because they always make sure that the inputs are things of which they are uncertain.
Ferguson failed to get F&M, BSE or swine flu right, and predicted 90,000 deaths in Sweden by July 2020 with no lockdown. There were ~8,000.
No lockdown was standard worldwide public health policy for >100 years and was in the UK 2011 pandemic plan. It was still the UK policy in Febrary 2020 and would have been the least bad way to deal with SARS-CoV-2.
Maybe this is why we got lockdowns, aka the most stupid public health policy in my lifetime
What I want to know is how the virus got from the Wuhan lab, ie the BSL-2 CDC facility where they did much of the research, all the way across the city to the market?
I mean, how could that happen?
What I love about the
That could be a photo of Croydon with Chinese place names turned on.
As cellphone-data-suggests-october-shutdown-wuhan-lab-experts-n1202716
And about 1,000 other examples.
No, that’s the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a BSL-4 lab about 10km from the market (I think)
Since the plague began, the scientists in Wuhan have admitted much of their work was done in lower level BSL-2 ancillary labs
‘Much of Shi’s work on gain-of-function in coronaviruses was performed at the BSL2 safety level, as is stated in her publications and other documents. She has said in an interview with Science magazine that “[t]he coronavirus research in our laboratory is conducted in BSL-2 or BSL-3 laboratories.”’
One of these is alleged to be the Wuhan ‘CDC’. I happily confess I can’t prove that’s it in the photo. But I have seen several maps which show the BSL-2 and 3 labs are much nearer the market
As ever, you bluster loudly but you’re embarrassingly ill-informed
Sorry: there is literally ZERO evidence that that photo is of either the wet market or the the Wuhan lab.
It's a photo. With circles on it. Providence unknown.
One of the circles says "Wuhan CDC". Which doesn't exist,
The other says "Market".
And I'm the one ill informed?
Are you high?
You didn’t even do your ‘ten seconds of research’ to find out if there were multiple labs in Wuhan. There are. Oh dear.
You don't even know that photo is from Wuhan.
The only thing we know for sure is that "Wuhan CDC" doesn't exist.
And I'm the one not doing my research?
I HAVE done my research. I’m 99% sure that is a map of central Wuhan. And it correctly identifies the Wuhan wet market
However the circled building appears to be a Ramen bar. Which, I confess, does not sound like an evil bioweapon lab
That said, right next door is a research hospital. Who knows. Where are the other, lower level labs? It’s quite an important detail
I did the same search on Google
Two things: 1. That's a seafood market, so are we sure that's the alleged wet market, anyway? And 2. If you look around the images, the hospital is in the middle of some really fancy office and hotel space.
The Wuhan Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market (Chinese: 武汉华南海鲜批发市场),[1][2] also known as the Huanan Seafood Market[3] (Huanan means 'South China'), was a live animal and seafood market in Jianghan District, Wuhan City, the capital of Hubei Province in Central China.
The market became widely known worldwide after being identified as the 'Ground Zero'…
So, it's down to a simple question: was "Wuhan CDC" (which doesn't exist) actually the lab, or was it a noodle bar?
Well, it looks like I’m right and you’re wrong. AGAIN
Check this thread, it links to a live Baidu map which confirms the other red circle is basically correct. That’s the Wuhan Jianghan Disease Prevention and Control Centre
‘The location on the map linked on project-evidence.github.io has changed since the screenshot. Chinese locations have not been accurate on Google Maps in the past, due to restrictions. The correct walking distance between Huanan Seafood Market and Wuhan CDC is most likely 0.5km.’
I've got not time for vaccine refusers and I would shed no tears if they all got COVID and died but it is simply a personal choice to take on that individual risk of refusing a vaccine.
The issue has always been overwhelming the NHS which was a collective risk for the nation. The vaccine programme has eliminated that collective risk regardless of what the garbage models say.
No, the issue here are the c***s like Susan Michie who are pushing forever lockdown as a solution to anything. Ultimately people like contrarian are now only really risking their own health by refusing the vaccine. People like Michie are trying to push the whole nation into a permanent state of social distancing because they're on a power trip and theyve realised the government is too weak to tell them to get fucked.
As I said this morning, the UK feels like a country that no longer wants to be free. The people have been mollified by the anti freedom scientists with the scare stories and garbage models. That's not a society I want to live in, asking permission from unelected scientists to enjoy some of life's pleasures. No thanks. Whatever contrarian's faults he's not pushing the idea of forever lockdown on anyone because he doesn't want the vaccine. Michie and her band of c***s are doing that.
It's going to take Steve Baker PM to get rid of these wankers. I'll rejoin the party and campaign for him if necessary. Anything but this half life.
Do you think the 1922 will move against Boris if he extends lockdown beyond 19th July?
Depends what happens in the polls and on Thursday, if there is not much leakage to ReformUK than Boris is fine.
If Boris' announcement cancelling Freedom Day proves as disastrous as May's announcement cancelling Brexit in Spring 2019 was to Tory prospects and there is again Tory leakage to Farage and Tice then he will have a problem
Doubt that will happen. Which if you think about it means that Brexit was more important to Tory voters than freedom itself. Sounds about right.
I feel sick - the cameras even looked for angles to get christian's face as he was lying face down...
Awful awful scenes.
That's pretty strange - usually when there's a serious injury they don't even show replays, and a collapse is clearly serious.
It is the host broadcaster who did that.
It is interesting that in the UK when there's a serious leg smashing type injury in a domestic match Sky and BT don't show a replay but in Europe they do,
What I want to know is how the virus got from the Wuhan lab, ie the BSL-2 CDC facility where they did much of the research, all the way across the city to the market?
I mean, how could that happen?
What I love about the
That could be a photo of Croydon with Chinese place names turned on.
As cellphone-data-suggests-october-shutdown-wuhan-lab-experts-n1202716
And about 1,000 other examples.
No, that’s the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a BSL-4 lab about 10km from the market (I think)
Since the plague began, the scientists in Wuhan have admitted much of their work was done in lower level BSL-2 ancillary labs
‘Much of Shi’s work on gain-of-function in coronaviruses was performed at the BSL2 safety level, as is stated in her publications and other documents. She has said in an interview with Science magazine that “[t]he coronavirus research in our laboratory is conducted in BSL-2 or BSL-3 laboratories.”’
One of these is alleged to be the Wuhan ‘CDC’. I happily confess I can’t prove that’s it in the photo. But I have seen several maps which show the BSL-2 and 3 labs are much nearer the market
As ever, you bluster loudly but you’re embarrassingly ill-informed
Sorry: there is literally ZERO evidence that that photo is of either the wet market or the the Wuhan lab.
It's a photo. With circles on it. Providence unknown.
One of the circles says "Wuhan CDC". Which doesn't exist,
The other says "Market".
And I'm the one ill informed?
Are you high?
You didn’t even do your ‘ten seconds of research’ to find out if there were multiple labs in Wuhan. There are. Oh dear.
You don't even know that photo is from Wuhan.
The only thing we know for sure is that "Wuhan CDC" doesn't exist.
And I'm the one not doing my research?
I HAVE done my research. I’m 99% sure that is a map of central Wuhan. And it correctly identifies the Wuhan wet market
However the circled building appears to be a Ramen bar. Which, I confess, does not sound like an evil bioweapon lab
That said, right next door is a research hospital. Who knows. Where are the other, lower level labs? It’s quite an important detail
I did the same search on Google
Two things: 1. That's a seafood market, so are we sure that's the alleged wet market, anyway? And 2. If you look around the images, the hospital is in the middle of some really fancy office and hotel space.
The Wuhan Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market (Chinese: 武汉华南海鲜批发市场),[1][2] also known as the Huanan Seafood Market[3] (Huanan means 'South China'), was a live animal and seafood market in Jianghan District, Wuhan City, the capital of Hubei Province in Central China.
The market became widely known worldwide after being identified as the 'Ground Zero'…
So, it's down to a simple question: was "Wuhan CDC" (which doesn't exist) actually the lab, or was it a noodle bar?
Well, it looks like I’m right and you’re wrong. AGAIN
Check this thread, it links to a live Baidu map which confirms the other red circle is basically correct. That’s the Wuhan Jianghan Disease Prevention and Control Centre
‘The location on the map linked on project-evidence.github.io has changed since the screenshot. Chinese locations have not been accurate on Google Maps in the past, due to restrictions. The correct walking distance between Huanan Seafood Market and Wuhan CDC is most likely 0.5km.’
Comments
Tsk, Robert. This took TEN SECONDS OF RESEARCH
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huanan_Seafood_Wholesale_Market
The Wuhan Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market (Chinese: 武汉华南海鲜批发市场),[1][2] also known as the Huanan Seafood Market[3] (Huanan means 'South China'), was a live animal and seafood market in Jianghan District, Wuhan City, the capital of Hubei Province in Central China.
The market became widely known worldwide after being identified as the 'Ground Zero'…
Do you think the 1922 will move against Boris if he extends lockdown beyond 19th July?
‘“It is clear that some or all of this work was being performed using a biosafety standard — biosafety level 2, the biosafety level of a standard US dentist’s office — that would pose an unacceptably high risk of infection of laboratory staff upon contact with a virus having the transmission properties of SARS-CoV-2,” Ebright says.’
https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/
(b) He will. Probably. On June 21st - 2026.
Where in most other places there are clear limits to Govt power - whether through the ability to challenge Govt edict on constitutional grounds in the courts, or alternative local power bases to whom the central authority can not dictate.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9679605/Jeremy-Corbyn-joins-smoke-grenade-touting-pro-Palestine-protestors-Downing-Street.html
Maybe Sabina Park 1998.
The two day test was a shocking Indian Bunsen burner.
The 46 all out was solely down to Hurricane Ambrose.
We were the best side through out that test match until the final session.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-west-indies-1993-94-61748/west-indies-vs-england-3rd-test-63639/full-scorecard
You asked @MaxPB but, butting in, a lot may depend on the 1922 election - see Guido for details. I think it will be the Northern 2019 uptake that will lead the charge to get rid of Boris if he is seen to dither on the 21st and their constituents go ballistic.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/oxfam-in-hay-on-wye-changes-locks-and-axes-bloody-welsh-shop-volunteers-nzcgtvfsl
The MPs will not move until the polls move against Johnson, and/or there are by-election or local election results showing other parties gaining.
If Reform got 5,000 in C&A, for example, that would concentrate a lot of minds. They won't, sadly.
It's probably about the same risk level as AZ but it doesn't need 4 weeks to reach minimum efficacy and it's already shown better results against existing variants on the same level as Pfizer and Moderna. In terms of neutralising antibodies Novavax has the second best overall immunity provided after Moderna and it only requires a 3 week gap.
That not only gets us over the line, we'd be done with our vaccine programme as Novavax would cover the last 6-7m people and it would free up Pfizer for second doses for the over 25s cohort.
I know Sibley got a score in the first innings, but with him it always just looks like a matter of time they get it in the right spot and his technical is so flawed he can't help but edge it.
I mean it seems bizarre to think that after winning an 80 seat majority 18 months ago the Tories might move again Boris but on the other hand I can't see them letting lockdown go on much longer either...
I think because of the goodwill he has within the party for winning the biggest Conservative majority since 1987 he will get away with delaying from 21st June to 19th July but if he doesn't fully unlock on 19th July all bets are off would be my best guess.
Technique for the longer form game has gone, and who can blame them when the IPL/franchise cricket allows them to earn so much.
Have I not suffered enough ?
It is now widely accepted that the major scientific journals - Nature, Lancet, Scientific American - are deeply compromised on this subject. They accept fraudulent letters denouncing ‘lab leak’ organised by Peter Wuhan Daszak, which declare ‘no conflict of interest’ - a total lie. Yet they refuse to publish contradictory research which investigates lab leak, this has been happening since early 2020
https://unherd.com/2021/06/beijings-useful-idiots/
Wade had no choice about where he published. No way Lancet would take it. So he went there, with his seminal article, which had entirely changed the global debate
And as far as I can tell people e have been campaigning on this from the moment he was convicted.
Daniel O'Shaughnessy and Robert Taylor.
Pretty much unpronounceable to English mouths.
They should certainly run larger trials with such dosages where the pandemic is at its hottest, as if they were to confirm effectiveness it would massively speed up the rate at which the rest of the world could be vaccinated.
I mean picking as captain the godson of the Chairman of Selectors was *interesting*.
Inside. Had recently got rid of outside.
America is powering ahead with reopening and we’re just .. well
According to The Voice, he has committed a series of offences which culminated in a sentence of five years in a Young Offender Institution for this crime.
That suggests no a one off being in the wrong place at wrong time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Center_for_Disease_Control_and_Prevention
I'd take anything right now. One of the issues with releasing AZ is that it locks under 30s into an 8 week cycle and most of them don't want to wait 8 weeks for their second dose. Novavax looks like a better bet to me than AZ and we could approve it tomorrow then get the first doses in arms about 20 days from now after certification of the first finished batch completes. I think it's a very small risk and if these numbers were available in January Novavax would have been granted an emergency use authorisation just as Pfizer were with a similar amount of efficacy data. AZ had even less and got one.
Get them dosed, and the spread collapses.
A decent guesstimate would be that every 3-4 million doses will knock 0.1 off the R rate if it's around 1.5 at the moment.
We're doing that every week right now; Max's proposal would supercharge that to nearly 0.2 per week. Whilst gradually pressing down on the cases-to-hospitalisations ratio.
We'd be there three weeks from today, even with Delta. That would certainly give us the July 5th opening at a minimum and might embolden Johnson to go for the 21st of June, anyway.
Frankly, at the very least, the Government should be offering any administrative and managerial help to Novavax to square away the submission that they can.
Check this thread, it links to a live Baidu map which confirms the other red circle is basically correct. That’s the Wuhan Jianghan Disease Prevention and Control Centre
‘The location on the map linked on project-evidence.github.io has changed since the screenshot. Chinese locations have not been accurate on Google Maps in the past, due to restrictions. The correct walking distance between Huanan Seafood Market and Wuhan CDC is most likely 0.5km.’
https://github.com/Project-Evidence/project-evidence.github.io/issues/14
And yes, it exists. Check the affiliations at the end
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2008-3
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/that-1980s-sports-blog/2020/jul/23/when-england-four-captains-4-0-defeat-west-indies-1988-cricket
Root can't play the anchor role.
Minus 9 for 7 and Wood coming in.
Win the toss and bat on a beautiful surface. Make 300 and lose in 3 days.
Anyway I still think that vaccines (and the link to rising case numbers) aren’t the issue. They are the excuse, allowing the scientists to produce new models on the grounds that “things have changed”. The scientists haven’t produced a single original model throughout this whole pandemic. They ALWAYS show basically the same thing. I suspect that every model Ferguson has ever produced shows the same thing. A range of scenarios ranging from the extremely benign to the very scary. And the Govt being encouraged to take a cautious approach on the basis of the scary ones. And because there’s a range of scenarios they can never be accused of getting it wrong. Because they always make sure that the inputs are things of which they are uncertain.
It’s the absence of the IPL players that means we have this shower.
If Boris' announcement cancelling Freedom Day proves as disastrous as May's announcement cancelling Brexit in Spring 2019 was to Tory prospects and there is again Tory leakage to Farage and Tice then he will have a problem
Not for long I'd wager.
The places that probably do need to worry are in the Deep South, where Delta is starting (from a very low base) to hit places with low levels of vaccine uptake.
Boris’s replacement is almost certain to ditch the “levelling up” commitments.
Well, I’m sure they’ll pay lip service to it, but the funding will evaporate.
Edit: just!
Are they taking the bloody piss?
Earlier today Wor Lass took part in some sort of 'World Outdoor Knitting Day' event. No, I'd not heard of it either.
I'm wondering what is left to leak to the Sunday papers. I suppose in recent days the stories have gone 'two weeks', 'two to four weeks', 'four weeks', so perhaps we are due 'at least four weeks'?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/50940600
I posted a map/photo positing the idea that there was a lower level Wuhan lab much nearer the market
Your reaction was this:
You said it was probably Croydon: it isn’t
You denied it was Wuhan: it is
You said it wasn’t the wet market: yet it is
You said it was a seafood market: they’re the same
You said ten seconds of research would prove me wrong: ten seconds proved me right
You thought I was talking about the Wuhan Institute of Virology: I wasn’t
You thought there was only one lab in Wuhan: there’s more
You had no idea why Wade would publish in the Bulletin: do some reading
You said the Wuhan CDC does not exist: it does
You said that the other red circle was not a Chinese lab: Chinese Google says it is
My work, for this afternoon, is done
I make it 22 out of 25 Trump voting states have fully reopened but only 9 out of 25 Biden voting states have fully reopened and neither has DC either
https://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-2020/coronavirus-state-restrictions.html
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1684920/boris-johnsons-decision-to-play-cricket-day-after-brexit-victory-cost-him-chance-to-be-pm-reveals-book-on-the-secrets-of-tory-bust-up/
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1403726322967400454?s=20
No lockdown was standard worldwide public health policy for >100 years and was in the UK 2011 pandemic plan. It was still the UK policy in Febrary 2020 and would have been the least bad way to deal with SARS-CoV-2.
Maybe this is why we got lockdowns, aka the most stupid public health policy in my lifetime
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/how-fanatics-took-over-world
Awful awful scenes.
https://theferret.scot/fact-check-neil-ferguson-covid-19-predictions/
It is interesting that in the UK when there's a serious leg smashing type injury in a domestic match Sky and BT don't show a replay but in Europe they do,