The BBC are a disgrace for showing that. They should have cut back to the studio immediately. I couldn’t watch that, was ghoulish.
To be honest, anyone is free to turn off.
Yes, we should definitely get in the habit of filming people dying. The option and decision was to not have this sick invasive footage going into millions of homes. I appreciate the pundits were underprepared but that’s live TV.
I did switch over but then of course I didn’t know when it was safe to switch back.
Why would you want to switch back? Someone was in your perhaps overdramatised view "dying" but you hoped there was a chance of the march was being continued?
Probably because I wanted an update on his condition without watching him lying motionless on the floor? I feel that’s quite a normal approach to these things.
Fair enough, assuming you know or are related to him.
Hello sociopath
We don't need to get angry with each other because of what happened in the match.
Are you new to PB?
Yes and someone else earlier was saying that when you're wrong the best thing is just to say so and move on.
That would decimate posting volumes on here. Could actually kill the site.
My list of current leaders I have a view on, from serious to lightweight;
1. Merkel 2. Biden 3. Morrison 4. Sturgeon 3. Macron 4. Putin 5. Drakeford 5. Trudeau 6. Von der Leyen 7. Ardern 8. Johnson
You don't think Putin is that serious? He is a lot of things, but he is definitely serious, a serious threat to the world, to anybody who opposes him, any surrounding countries with any land he thinks is useful.
He is not beyond dumb and desperate attention-grabbing manoeuvres (was my thinking).
Your list seems a little politically-tinted to me. I wouldn't describe Biden as serious - the poor man is barely lucid.
Pardon my French, but what a load of horseshit. Biden's more lucid that you - or me for that matter.
What I want to know is how the virus got from the Wuhan lab, ie the BSL-2 CDC facility where they did much of the research, all the way across the city to the market?
I mean, how could that happen?
What I love about the
That could be a photo of Croydon with Chinese place names turned on.
As cellphone-data-suggests-october-shutdown-wuhan-lab-experts-n1202716
And about 1,000 other examples.
No, that’s the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a BSL-4 lab about 10km from the market (I think)
Since the plague began, the scientists in Wuhan have admitted much of their work was done in lower level BSL-2 ancillary labs
‘Much of Shi’s work on gain-of-function in coronaviruses was performed at the BSL2 safety level, as is stated in her publications and other documents. She has said in an interview with Science magazine that “[t]he coronavirus research in our laboratory is conducted in BSL-2 or BSL-3 laboratories.”’
One of these is alleged to be the Wuhan ‘CDC’. I happily confess I can’t prove that’s it in the photo. But I have seen several maps which show the BSL-2 and 3 labs are much nearer the market
As ever, you bluster loudly but you’re embarrassingly ill-informed
Sorry: there is literally ZERO evidence that that photo is of either the wet market or the the Wuhan lab.
It's a photo. With circles on it. Providence unknown.
One of the circles says "Wuhan CDC". Which doesn't exist,
The other says "Market".
And I'm the one ill informed?
Are you high?
You didn’t even do your ‘ten seconds of research’ to find out if there were multiple labs in Wuhan. There are. Oh dear.
You don't even know that photo is from Wuhan.
The only thing we know for sure is that "Wuhan CDC" doesn't exist.
And I'm the one not doing my research?
I HAVE done my research. I’m 99% sure that is a map of central Wuhan. And it correctly identifies the Wuhan wet market
However the circled building appears to be a Ramen bar. Which, I confess, does not sound like an evil bioweapon lab
That said, right next door is a research hospital. Who knows. Where are the other, lower level labs? It’s quite an important detail
I did the same search on Google
Two things: 1. That's a seafood market, so are we sure that's the alleged wet market, anyway? And 2. If you look around the images, the hospital is in the middle of some really fancy office and hotel space.
The Wuhan Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market (Chinese: 武汉华南海鲜批发市场),[1][2] also known as the Huanan Seafood Market[3] (Huanan means 'South China'), was a live animal and seafood market in Jianghan District, Wuhan City, the capital of Hubei Province in Central China.
The market became widely known worldwide after being identified as the 'Ground Zero'…
So, it's down to a simple question: was "Wuhan CDC" (which doesn't exist) actually the lab, or was it a noodle bar?
Well, it looks like I’m right and you’re wrong. AGAIN
Check this thread, it links to a live Baidu map which confirms the other red circle is basically correct. That’s the Wuhan Jianghan Disease Prevention and Control Centre
‘The location on the map linked on project-evidence.github.io has changed since the screenshot. Chinese locations have not been accurate on Google Maps in the past, due to restrictions. The correct walking distance between Huanan Seafood Market and Wuhan CDC is most likely 0.5km.’
Has he proved the lab theory now then? - With that photo?
No, he had not proven it.
Proof - either way - may never come, especially if it was a low level escape, and was covered up.
If the virus is discovered in the wild, that would clearly be a big boost for the wild theory. But remember it took six years to find the specific host of SARS and we've never found the hosts of either HIV/AIDS or Ebola.
Also, even if it is found in the wild, it doesn't mean that it wasn't captured and then escaped.
If it leaked from a lab does it follow that the Chinese government know it did and are hence covering up? Or might they be in the dark too?
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
Media totally out of touch with the public...again... remember anybody who diagrees is a racist accordingly to pundits including one who have been done for racism...
They need to find an alternative by next season. Something less divisive, like the cricketers.
Christian Eriksen had a Facetime call with his teammates from the hospital and asked them to play the game tonight, as “he feels better now”, @sportstudio just reported.
I see Bozo is trying to deflect from the 21st June delay by trying to pick a fight with the EU. The so called oven ready deal was a dogs dinner and now the fat oaf goes to his tiresome sovereignty bollocks when he was the one that signed upto sticking the border in the Irish Sea.
History will record that Boris had three choices: remain (a suicidal hospital pass and only theoretical, but it was there); no deal; a deal which was politically bad in relation to Ireland. No other options existed.
His critics have the luxury, like DUP politicians, of expounding at length what they didn't want but need to note that no other possibility would get through parliament (though of course remain was not tried). (Remain, it is fair to say, would have demolished the balance of UK politics in unforeseeable and catastrophic ways.) The critics, just like the DUP, have not yet come up with a fourth option which would have got through the EU and parliament.
So the question for history will be not was Boris perfect (he wasn't) but were there better options at the time. No.
Boris opted for Get Out. Watch it fail. Renegotiate with an EU once we can all see it must be done. That's what he is doing.
Membership of the Common Market or even just signing up to aligning standards for agriculture.
Would have passed parliament and EU would have agreed.
No it wouldn't pass Parliament. Remember the indicative votes - that was put forwards and was rejected. 🤦♂️
Plus at the referendum we didn't vote to Remain either.
I reckon would have passed, easily.
Aligning agricultural standards to the EU is leaving the EU.
It is just your ideology standing in the way and causing the rise in tensions in N Ireland in doing so.
If it would have passed, why was it rejected in the indicative votes?
Of course my ideology rejects it and my ideology has no more of a reason to bow down to alignment, than telling the Irish they must leave the EU with us. Any solution needs to recognise that Ireland wants to remain and we want to leave and treat all parties with respect.
Respect is always good. But the Conservative Party also claims to be hard-headed about markets. Losing access for food exports to the EU and Northern Ireland so that we can in theory lower our standards, while insisting that we don't actually want to, makes no sense.
Good grief. You lot simply won’t accept the fact you lost the referendum will you? The reason we won is precisely the lack of respect for the wishes of the electorate you are now showing. You simply refuse to accept we want what we want. It is arrogance and a total and utter disgrace.
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
Media totally out of touch with the public...again... remember anybody who diagrees is a racist accordingly to pundits including one who have been done for racism...
They need to find an alternative by next season. Something less divisive, like the cricketers.
Perhaps we could all start judging people on the content of their character and not the colour of their skin and see if it works.
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
Media totally out of touch with the public...again... remember anybody who diagrees is a racist accordingly to pundits including one who have been done for racism...
They need to find an alternative by next season. Something less divisive, like the cricketers.
Perhaps we could all start judging people on the content of their character and not the colour of their skin and see if it works.
Tory lead now averaging more than 10%. Tory solid on ~43, difference is always Labour vs Lib Thingies + Eco-Fascists.
True - though only 5 months ago Opinium showed Labour ahead.The pollster is now showing the same Tory lead as just post Easter. In itself , this poll does not imply a Tory gain at Batley&Spen - indeed it shows a small swing to Labour of 1.35% compared with December 2019 which should indicate an increased Labour majority in terms of vote share. If,however, the seat is lost, Starmer will be toast - all his authority will be destroyed.
Con 43% +1 Lab 34% -2 Green 7% +2 Lib Dem 6 ±0 10-11 Jun; change since 27-28 May
Public want restrictions extended (54-37) according to that poll
We can turn to the lyrics of The Jam once again:
"And the public wants what the public gets But I don't get what this society wants"
Although on this, I'm on the side of the majority.
I'd be curious to see polling on whether people think we should reverse the last reopening.
My dad - who's spent the last two weeks saying that we will open up on 21 June - thinks that if they're worried, then they should shut pubs etc. And I think he's right.
What happens when things don't get better in three weeks time? They'll extend and extend and extend. It would be better to reverse the last reopening and get cases down and give a bit more time for the vaccines to take effect.
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
Media totally out of touch with the public...again... remember anybody who diagrees is a racist accordingly to pundits including one who have been done for racism...
They need to find an alternative by next season. Something less divisive, like the cricketers.
Well, the cricketers have certainly united the nation in the fervent belief that they are a bit shit.
Tory lead now averaging more than 10%. Tory solid on ~43, difference is always Labour vs Lib Thingies + Eco-Fascists.
True - though only 5 months ago Opinium showed Labour ahead.The pollster is now showing the same Tory lead as just post Easter. In itself , this poll does not imply a Tory gain at Batley&Spen - indeed it shows a small swing to Labour of 1.35% compared with December 2019 which should indicate an increased Labour majority in terms of vote share. If,however, the seat is lost, Starmer will be toast - all his authority will be destroyed.
You are nothing but consistent.....always seeing that bright spark for Labour.
What I want to know is how the virus got from the Wuhan lab, ie the BSL-2 CDC facility where they did much of the research, all the way across the city to the market?
I mean, how could that happen?
What I love about the
That could be a photo of Croydon with Chinese place names turned on.
As cellphone-data-suggests-october-shutdown-wuhan-lab-experts-n1202716
And about 1,000 other examples.
No, that’s the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a BSL-4 lab about 10km from the market (I think)
Since the plague began, the scientists in Wuhan have admitted much of their work was done in lower level BSL-2 ancillary labs
‘Much of Shi’s work on gain-of-function in coronaviruses was performed at the BSL2 safety level, as is stated in her publications and other documents. She has said in an interview with Science magazine that “[t]he coronavirus research in our laboratory is conducted in BSL-2 or BSL-3 laboratories.”’
One of these is alleged to be the Wuhan ‘CDC’. I happily confess I can’t prove that’s it in the photo. But I have seen several maps which show the BSL-2 and 3 labs are much nearer the market
As ever, you bluster loudly but you’re embarrassingly ill-informed
Sorry: there is literally ZERO evidence that that photo is of either the wet market or the the Wuhan lab.
It's a photo. With circles on it. Providence unknown.
One of the circles says "Wuhan CDC". Which doesn't exist,
The other says "Market".
And I'm the one ill informed?
Are you high?
You didn’t even do your ‘ten seconds of research’ to find out if there were multiple labs in Wuhan. There are. Oh dear.
You don't even know that photo is from Wuhan.
The only thing we know for sure is that "Wuhan CDC" doesn't exist.
And I'm the one not doing my research?
I HAVE done my research. I’m 99% sure that is a map of central Wuhan. And it correctly identifies the Wuhan wet market
However the circled building appears to be a Ramen bar. Which, I confess, does not sound like an evil bioweapon lab
That said, right next door is a research hospital. Who knows. Where are the other, lower level labs? It’s quite an important detail
I did the same search on Google
Two things: 1. That's a seafood market, so are we sure that's the alleged wet market, anyway? And 2. If you look around the images, the hospital is in the middle of some really fancy office and hotel space.
The Wuhan Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market (Chinese: 武汉华南海鲜批发市场),[1][2] also known as the Huanan Seafood Market[3] (Huanan means 'South China'), was a live animal and seafood market in Jianghan District, Wuhan City, the capital of Hubei Province in Central China.
The market became widely known worldwide after being identified as the 'Ground Zero'…
So, it's down to a simple question: was "Wuhan CDC" (which doesn't exist) actually the lab, or was it a noodle bar?
Well, it looks like I’m right and you’re wrong. AGAIN
Check this thread, it links to a live Baidu map which confirms the other red circle is basically correct. That’s the Wuhan Jianghan Disease Prevention and Control Centre
‘The location on the map linked on project-evidence.github.io has changed since the screenshot. Chinese locations have not been accurate on Google Maps in the past, due to restrictions. The correct walking distance between Huanan Seafood Market and Wuhan CDC is most likely 0.5km.’
Has he proved the lab theory now then? - With that photo?
No, he had not proven it.
Proof - either way - may never come, especially if it was a low level escape, and was covered up.
If the virus is discovered in the wild, that would clearly be a big boost for the wild theory. But remember it took six years to find the specific host of SARS and we've never found the hosts of either HIV/AIDS or Ebola.
Also, even if it is found in the wild, it doesn't mean that it wasn't captured and then escaped.
If it leaked from a lab does it follow that the Chinese government know it did and are hence covering up? Or might they be in the dark too?
Nothing is certain, and Robert is right, I certainly did not prove the virus came from the lab, that would make me the internet hero of the century (or the guy who started World War 3), all I proved is that there is a laboratory near the wet market, which might have been a BSL2 centre of risky corona gain-of-function research
What was interesting in that whole exchange was how a smart guy, Robert Smithson, leapt immediately to the conclusion that I had posted some insane Trumpite conspiratorial bollocks, which needed just ten seconds Googling to refute - only for ten seconds googling to show I was completely right, and he was embarrassingly wrong, on all counts
Why this reaction? I think the original gaslighting by the scientific/political Establishment: "lab leak" is mad, Trump believes it, all viruses come from animals naturally - has been notably successful. It has duped many people
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
Media totally out of touch with the public...again... remember anybody who diagrees is a racist accordingly to pundits including one who have been done for racism...
They need to find an alternative by next season. Something less divisive, like the cricketers.
Perhaps we could all start judging people on the content of their character and not the colour of their skin and see if it works.
We should judge people on the choice of their shoes and general attire.
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
Media totally out of touch with the public...again... remember anybody who diagrees is a racist accordingly to pundits including one who have been done for racism...
They need to find an alternative by next season. Something less divisive, like the cricketers.
Well, the cricketers have certainly united the nation in the fervent belief that they are a bit shit.
Tory lead now averaging more than 10%. Tory solid on ~43, difference is always Labour vs Lib Thingies + Eco-Fascists.
True - though only 5 months ago Opinium showed Labour ahead.The pollster is now showing the same Tory lead as just post Easter. In itself , this poll does not imply a Tory gain at Batley&Spen - indeed it shows a small swing to Labour of 1.35% compared with December 2019 which should indicate an increased Labour majority in terms of vote share. If,however, the seat is lost, Starmer will be toast - all his authority will be destroyed.
You are nothing but consistent.....always seeing that bright spark for Labour.
Which bright spark would that be? It is far from visible to me.
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
Media totally out of touch with the public...again... remember anybody who diagrees is a racist accordingly to pundits including one who have been done for racism...
They need to find an alternative by next season. Something less divisive, like the cricketers.
Before this taking the knee malarkey, wasn't the last time the England team made a political gesture before kick off that time they all gave a Nazi salute away to Germany?
Con 43% +1 Lab 34% -2 Green 7% +2 Lib Dem 6 ±0 10-11 Jun; change since 27-28 May
Public want restrictions extended (54-37) according to that poll
We can turn to the lyrics of The Jam once again:
"And the public wants what the public gets But I don't get what this society wants"
Although on this, I'm on the side of the majority.
I'd be curious to see polling on whether people think we should reverse the last reopening.
My dad - who's spent the last two weeks saying that we will open up on 21 June - thinks that if they're worried, then they should shut pubs etc. And I think he's right.
What happens when things don't get better in three weeks time? They'll extend and extend and extend. It would be better to reverse the last reopening and get cases down and give a bit more time for the vaccines to take effect.
A short delay might not be too unpalatable to many on the Conservative benches but I reckon going backwards would very much NOT be.
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
Media totally out of touch with the public...again... remember anybody who diagrees is a racist accordingly to pundits including one who have been done for racism...
They need to find an alternative by next season. Something less divisive, like the cricketers.
Well, the cricketers have certainly united the nation in the fervent belief that they are a bit shit.
Only a bit? Very generous.
Well, they have been playing India and New Zealand, by some distance the two best sides in the world right now. But even so, it’s remarkable how they keep finding new and innovative ways to fail with the bat.
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
I think you may have an interest in that, but of course here in Wales our minister has spoken to my son and his partner today and confirmed the service with 40 attendees for the 31st July and another 30 can gather socially distanced outside in the Church grounds, before all of us go to the marquee for the wedding breakfast
They are delighted and my son is setting up to broadcast the service on YouTube from inside the church to everyone, and indeed to our other son and daughter in law in Vancouver
Mind you he is head of IT and Network service at his school so he has the expertise to do it cost free
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
Media totally out of touch with the public...again... remember anybody who diagrees is a racist accordingly to pundits including one who have been done for racism...
They need to find an alternative by next season. Something less divisive, like the cricketers.
Well, the cricketers have certainly united the nation in the fervent belief that they are a bit shit.
Only a bit? Very generous.
Well, they have been playing India and New Zealand, by some distance the two best sides in the world right now. But even so, it’s remarkable how they keep finding new and innovative ways to fail with the bat.
This wasn't even NZ A-Team, it was mostly their B team. They are saving most of the big guns for the match vs India.
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
Media totally out of touch with the public...again... remember anybody who diagrees is a racist accordingly to pundits including one who have been done for racism...
They need to find an alternative by next season. Something less divisive, like the cricketers.
Well, the cricketers have certainly united the nation in the fervent belief that they are a bit shit.
Only a bit? Very generous.
Only the batting bit of the team.
The bowlers have been OK, and even better with the bat than the batsmen themselves.
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
It went down really well in St. Petersburg when Belgium did it, that's for sure.
Were there a few boos?
Closer to an entire (admittedly half-full) stadium full of whistles.
I did say this the other day we are going to see this throughout the tournament. The Eastern European fans in particular are just not on board with it.
Con 43% +1 Lab 34% -2 Green 7% +2 Lib Dem 6 ±0 10-11 Jun; change since 27-28 May
Public want restrictions extended (54-37) according to that poll
We can turn to the lyrics of The Jam once again:
"And the public wants what the public gets But I don't get what this society wants"
Although on this, I'm on the side of the majority.
I'd be curious to see polling on whether people think we should reverse the last reopening.
My dad - who's spent the last two weeks saying that we will open up on 21 June - thinks that if they're worried, then they should shut pubs etc. And I think he's right.
What happens when things don't get better in three weeks time? They'll extend and extend and extend. It would be better to reverse the last reopening and get cases down and give a bit more time for the vaccines to take effect.
A short delay might not be too unpalatable to many on the Conservative benches but I reckon going backwards would very much NOT be.
I don't doubt it. But I think that the PM is storing up trouble if he simply delays the next stage. Things won't magically improve in that time. Okay, more vaccines will be at work, but it's the cases that's driving this wobble. And they will carry on getting worse.
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
It went down really well in St. Petersburg when Belgium did it, that's for sure.
Were there a few boos?
Closer to an entire (admittedly half-full) stadium full of whistles.
I did say this the other day we are going to see this throughout the tournament.
They should have done a massive ceremonial knee at the beginning and then ended it. This is the worst of all worlds, the symbolism mocked, the fans annoyed, the players deeply uneasy
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
It went down really well in St. Petersburg when Belgium did it, that's for sure.
Were there a few boos?
Closer to an entire (admittedly half-full) stadium full of whistles.
I did say this the other day we are going to see this throughout the tournament.
They should have done a massive ceremonial knee at the beginning and then ended it. This is the worst of all worlds, the symbolism mocked, the fans annoyed, the players deeply uneasy
Given they had an opening ceremony, perhaps incorporating it there as a one-off might have been the way forward.
At the England friendly it was a curious mix of applause and boos although on balance I thought the former won out. But at St Petersburg it seemed just outright hostility.
Christian Eriksen had a Facetime call with his teammates from the hospital and asked them to play the game tonight, as “he feels better now”, @sportstudio just reported.
I see Bozo is trying to deflect from the 21st June delay by trying to pick a fight with the EU. The so called oven ready deal was a dogs dinner and now the fat oaf goes to his tiresome sovereignty bollocks when he was the one that signed upto sticking the border in the Irish Sea.
History will record that Boris had three choices: remain (a suicidal hospital pass and only theoretical, but it was there); no deal; a deal which was politically bad in relation to Ireland. No other options existed.
His critics have the luxury, like DUP politicians, of expounding at length what they didn't want but need to note that no other possibility would get through parliament (though of course remain was not tried). (Remain, it is fair to say, would have demolished the balance of UK politics in unforeseeable and catastrophic ways.) The critics, just like the DUP, have not yet come up with a fourth option which would have got through the EU and parliament.
So the question for history will be not was Boris perfect (he wasn't) but were there better options at the time. No.
Boris opted for Get Out. Watch it fail. Renegotiate with an EU once we can all see it must be done. That's what he is doing.
It was the most sensible option by far.
Why not accept aligning UK agriculture standards to the EU and signing up to that ?
UK famers are happy with that and would not stop trade deals with US etc.
Because we voted to take back control.
Having our own rules is literally what Boris and Vote Leave campaigned on in 2016, so entirely right to campaign on and negotiate that in 2019 too.
You are changing what you are saying.
It is purely your ideology getting in the way of aligning agriculture standards to the EU.
It aligns to the 2016 referendum result, it deals with the N Ireland issues.
It is an option, one that would work.
Your ideology stands in its way though.
Aren't standards already perfectly aligned?
No: we have much stricter standards for animal welfare than the EU.
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
Media totally out of touch with the public...again... remember anybody who diagrees is a racist accordingly to pundits including one who have been done for racism...
They need to find an alternative by next season. Something less divisive, like the cricketers.
Well, the cricketers have certainly united the nation in the fervent belief that they are a bit shit.
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
It went down really well in St. Petersburg when Belgium did it, that's for sure.
Were there a few boos?
Closer to an entire (admittedly half-full) stadium full of whistles.
I did say this the other day we are going to see this throughout the tournament.
They should have done a massive ceremonial knee at the beginning and then ended it. This is the worst of all worlds, the symbolism mocked, the fans annoyed, the players deeply uneasy
Given they had an opening ceremony, perhaps incorporating it there as a one-off might have been the way forward.
At the England friendly it was a curious mix of applause and boos although on balance I thought the former won out. But at St Petersburg it seemed just outright hostility.
Can you blame them?
Russia had zero involvement in the Atlantic slave trade and has fuck all to do with American policing. It has its own racial problems but the idea Russian fans should respect "the death of George Floyd" and this ridiculous, increasingly-embarrassing piece of Anglo-Saxon virtue signalling, by millionaires, is absurd
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
Media totally out of touch with the public...again... remember anybody who diagrees is a racist accordingly to pundits including one who have been done for racism...
They need to find an alternative by next season. Something less divisive, like the cricketers.
Before this taking the knee malarkey, wasn't the last time the England team made a political gesture before kick off that time they all gave a Nazi salute away to Germany?
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
Media totally out of touch with the public...again... remember anybody who diagrees is a racist accordingly to pundits including one who have been done for racism...
They need to find an alternative by next season. Something less divisive, like the cricketers.
Before this taking the knee malarkey, wasn't the last time the England team made a political gesture before kick off that time they all gave a Nazi salute away to Germany?
I think you may have an interest in that, but of course here in Wales our minister has spoken to my son and his partner today and confirmed the service with 40 attendees for the 31st July and another 30 can gather socially distanced outside in the Church grounds, before all of us go to the marquee for the wedding breakfast
They are delighted and my son is setting up to broadcast the service on YouTube from inside the church to everyone, and indeed to our other son and daughter in law in Vancouver
Mind you he is head of IT and Network service at his school so he has the expertise to do it cost free
I hope all goes well for them, we are doing the wedding with 30 and a livesteam next weekend in Oxford and a Thanksgiving reception outdoors on July 3rd in Epping for 50-60 at present rules depending
Oh yes, the Ruskies have a player with a surname that sounds a lot like 'Jerkoff'
That will stop amusing me.
A bit like a Bulgarian player with a surname that sounded like 'Bollock off'.
During WW2 there was a British POW in Germany, who made a daring and almost-successful escape attempt, disguised as an officer in the Bulgarian Navy (because his RN Reserve uniform had crowns on the buttons, and Bulgaria was a kingdom AND German ally).
For his nom d'évasion he called himself "Ivan Bugeroff".
I think you may have an interest in that, but of course here in Wales our minister has spoken to my son and his partner today and confirmed the service with 40 attendees for the 31st July and another 30 can gather socially distanced outside in the Church grounds, before all of us go to the marquee for the wedding breakfast
They are delighted and my son is setting up to broadcast the service on YouTube from inside the church to everyone, and indeed to our other son and daughter in law in Vancouver
Mind you he is head of IT and Network service at his school so he has the expertise to do it cost free
I hope all goes well for them, we are doing the wedding with 30 and a livesteam next weekend in Oxford and a Thanksgiving reception outdoors on July 3rd in Epping for 50-60 at present rules depending
Thanks @HYUFD and may you have a wonderful wedding and outdoor reception on the 3rd July
Con 43% +1 Lab 34% -2 Green 7% +2 Lib Dem 6 ±0 10-11 Jun; change since 27-28 May
Public want restrictions extended (54-37) according to that poll
Stockholm syndrome lol
Your regular reminder that just because something is popular doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.
As one pollster reminds us all the public were in favour of the Iraq War and a few years later hardly anyone admitting to supporting it at the time.
Well quite.
Not according to MORI - in February 2003: a quarter of the public (26%) said they would support British troops being used without proof that Iraq is hiding weapons or a new Security Council resolution, while 63% would oppose, net support of -37; at the end of February, the figures were 24% support, 67% oppose, net -43.
That changed once the Forces were in action, as it always does, then changed back afterwards.
What I want to know is how the virus got from the Wuhan lab, ie the BSL-2 CDC facility where they did much of the research, all the way across the city to the market?
I mean, how could that happen?
What I love about the
That could be a photo of Croydon with Chinese place names turned on.
As cellphone-data-suggests-october-shutdown-wuhan-lab-experts-n1202716
And about 1,000 other examples.
No, that’s the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a BSL-4 lab about 10km from the market (I think)
Since the plague began, the scientists in Wuhan have admitted much of their work was done in lower level BSL-2 ancillary labs
‘Much of Shi’s work on gain-of-function in coronaviruses was performed at the BSL2 safety level, as is stated in her publications and other documents. She has said in an interview with Science magazine that “[t]he coronavirus research in our laboratory is conducted in BSL-2 or BSL-3 laboratories.”’
One of these is alleged to be the Wuhan ‘CDC’. I happily confess I can’t prove that’s it in the photo. But I have seen several maps which show the BSL-2 and 3 labs are much nearer the market
As ever, you bluster loudly but you’re embarrassingly ill-informed
Sorry: there is literally ZERO evidence that that photo is of either the wet market or the the Wuhan lab.
It's a photo. With circles on it. Providence unknown.
One of the circles says "Wuhan CDC". Which doesn't exist,
The other says "Market".
And I'm the one ill informed?
Are you high?
You didn’t even do your ‘ten seconds of research’ to find out if there were multiple labs in Wuhan. There are. Oh dear.
You don't even know that photo is from Wuhan.
The only thing we know for sure is that "Wuhan CDC" doesn't exist.
And I'm the one not doing my research?
I HAVE done my research. I’m 99% sure that is a map of central Wuhan. And it correctly identifies the Wuhan wet market
However the circled building appears to be a Ramen bar. Which, I confess, does not sound like an evil bioweapon lab
That said, right next door is a research hospital. Who knows. Where are the other, lower level labs? It’s quite an important detail
I did the same search on Google
Two things: 1. That's a seafood market, so are we sure that's the alleged wet market, anyway? And 2. If you look around the images, the hospital is in the middle of some really fancy office and hotel space.
The Wuhan Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market (Chinese: 武汉华南海鲜批发市场),[1][2] also known as the Huanan Seafood Market[3] (Huanan means 'South China'), was a live animal and seafood market in Jianghan District, Wuhan City, the capital of Hubei Province in Central China.
The market became widely known worldwide after being identified as the 'Ground Zero'…
So, it's down to a simple question: was "Wuhan CDC" (which doesn't exist) actually the lab, or was it a noodle bar?
Well, it looks like I’m right and you’re wrong. AGAIN
Check this thread, it links to a live Baidu map which confirms the other red circle is basically correct. That’s the Wuhan Jianghan Disease Prevention and Control Centre
‘The location on the map linked on project-evidence.github.io has changed since the screenshot. Chinese locations have not been accurate on Google Maps in the past, due to restrictions. The correct walking distance between Huanan Seafood Market and Wuhan CDC is most likely 0.5km.’
Has he proved the lab theory now then? - With that photo?
No, he had not proven it.
Proof - either way - may never come, especially if it was a low level escape, and was covered up.
If the virus is discovered in the wild, that would clearly be a big boost for the wild theory. But remember it took six years to find the specific host of SARS and we've never found the hosts of either HIV/AIDS or Ebola.
Also, even if it is found in the wild, it doesn't mean that it wasn't captured and then escaped.
If it leaked from a lab does it follow that the Chinese government know it did and are hence covering up? Or might they be in the dark too?
Nothing is certain, and Robert is right, I certainly did not prove the virus came from the lab, that would make me the internet hero of the century (or the guy who started World War 3), all I proved is that there is a laboratory near the wet market, which might have been a BSL2 centre of risky corona gain-of-function research
What was interesting in that whole exchange was how a smart guy, Robert Smithson, leapt immediately to the conclusion that I had posted some insane Trumpite conspiratorial bollocks, which needed just ten seconds Googling to refute - only for ten seconds googling to show I was completely right, and he was embarrassingly wrong, on all counts
Why this reaction? I think the original gaslighting by the scientific/political Establishment: "lab leak" is mad, Trump believes it, all viruses come from animals naturally - has been notably successful. It has duped many people
The evidence has to be both compatible with leak and incompatible with wild. Just the 1st isn't enough. And unfortunately you can't divorce messenger from message. Not so much you - although there is that - but with all the Trumpian loonies. I'm afraid their support does taint the object of it. There's no easy way around that. It saves so much time to assume everything they say is true is false. It's efficient to do that because it will be the case 99% of the time. But there will be that 1% and maybe this is it. I doubt it but that's all I'm doing. Doubting. Which is a big move. I'm no longer rejecting it out of hand - my efficient default for Trump tat - and I'm not mocking it. Looking forward to being able to mock it again one day but I realize that day might never arrive. Could be permanent limbo on this one - which would not be great for anyone.
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
It went down really well in St. Petersburg when Belgium did it, that's for sure.
Were there a few boos?
Closer to an entire (admittedly half-full) stadium full of whistles.
I did say this the other day we are going to see this throughout the tournament.
They should have done a massive ceremonial knee at the beginning and then ended it. This is the worst of all worlds, the symbolism mocked, the fans annoyed, the players deeply uneasy
Given they had an opening ceremony, perhaps incorporating it there as a one-off might have been the way forward.
At the England friendly it was a curious mix of applause and boos although on balance I thought the former won out. But at St Petersburg it seemed just outright hostility.
Can you blame them?
Russia had zero involvement in the Atlantic slave trade and has fuck all to do with American policing. It has its own racial problems but the idea Russian fans should respect "the death of George Floyd" and this ridiculous, increasingly-embarrassing piece of Anglo-Saxon virtue signalling, by millionaires, is absurd
I'd certainly boo, if I was a St Petersburger
Personally I don't really give a fuck either way if they do it if that's the choice, although one does wonder about instances where there is pressure being exerted to do it (the big discussion in F1 was about certain drivers not doing it and why not etc.).
But I do think doing it, and then subsequently arguing about doing it or not, is mere displacement activity. A salve so that right-on people can say they are tackling an important issue, taking a stand, raising awareness etc. It's all a bit...meta, if I'm honest.
Oh yes, the Ruskies have a player with a surname that sounds a lot like 'Jerkoff'
That will stop amusing me.
A bit like a Bulgarian player with a surname that sounded like 'Bollock off'.
During WW2 there was a British POW in Germany, who made a daring and almost-successful escape attempt, disguised as an officer in the Bulgarian Navy (because his RN Reserve uniform had crowns on the buttons, and Bulgaria was a kingdom AND German ally).
For his nom d'évasion he called himself "Ivan Bugeroff".
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
It went down really well in St. Petersburg when Belgium did it, that's for sure.
Were there a few boos?
Closer to an entire (admittedly half-full) stadium full of whistles.
I did say this the other day we are going to see this throughout the tournament.
They should have done a massive ceremonial knee at the beginning and then ended it. This is the worst of all worlds, the symbolism mocked, the fans annoyed, the players deeply uneasy
Given they had an opening ceremony, perhaps incorporating it there as a one-off might have been the way forward.
At the England friendly it was a curious mix of applause and boos although on balance I thought the former won out. But at St Petersburg it seemed just outright hostility.
Can you blame them?
Russia had zero involvement in the Atlantic slave trade and has fuck all to do with American policing. It has its own racial problems but the idea Russian fans should respect "the death of George Floyd" and this ridiculous, increasingly-embarrassing piece of Anglo-Saxon virtue signalling, by millionaires, is absurd
I'd certainly boo, if I was a St Petersburger
There are also barely any black Russians, Russia is almost entirely white apart from a few Tatar Mongolians in the far East of the country.
Hence Putin is so popular with white nationalists and racists
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
It went down really well in St. Petersburg when Belgium did it, that's for sure.
Were there a few boos?
Closer to an entire (admittedly half-full) stadium full of whistles.
I did say this the other day we are going to see this throughout the tournament.
They should have done a massive ceremonial knee at the beginning and then ended it. This is the worst of all worlds, the symbolism mocked, the fans annoyed, the players deeply uneasy
Do you think taking the knee is political at all? Not even when complete with black power salute?
Quite funny seeing all the separate huddles occurring. EU lot did it yesterday, and looks like Biden, Johnson, and Morrison came from an Aus-U.K.-US one.
Quite funny seeing all the separate huddles occurring. EU lot did it yesterday, and looks like Biden, Johnson, and Morrison came from an Aus-U.K.-US one.
Con 43% +1 Lab 34% -2 Green 7% +2 Lib Dem 6 ±0 10-11 Jun; change since 27-28 May
Public want restrictions extended (54-37) according to that poll
Stockholm syndrome lol
Your regular reminder that just because something is popular doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.
As one pollster reminds us all the public were in favour of the Iraq War and a few years later hardly anyone admitting to supporting it at the time.
Well quite.
Not according to MORI - in February 2003: a quarter of the public (26%) said they would support British troops being used without proof that Iraq is hiding weapons or a new Security Council resolution, while 63% would oppose, net support of -37; at the end of February, the figures were 24% support, 67% oppose, net -43.
That changed once the Forces were in action, as it always does, then changed back afterwards.
Missing the point again. I was talking about people supporting the war in 2003 then recalling they opposed it years later.
What I want to know is how the virus got from the Wuhan lab, ie the BSL-2 CDC facility where they did much of the research, all the way across the city to the market?
I mean, how could that happen?
What I love about the
That could be a photo of Croydon with Chinese place names turned on.
As cellphone-data-suggests-october-shutdown-wuhan-lab-experts-n1202716
And about 1,000 other examples.
No, that’s the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a BSL-4 lab about 10km from the market (I think)
Since the plague began, the scientists in Wuhan have admitted much of their work was done in lower level BSL-2 ancillary labs
‘Much of Shi’s work on gain-of-function in coronaviruses was performed at the BSL2 safety level, as is stated in her publications and other documents. She has said in an interview with Science magazine that “[t]he coronavirus research in our laboratory is conducted in BSL-2 or BSL-3 laboratories.”’
One of these is alleged to be the Wuhan ‘CDC’. I happily confess I can’t prove that’s it in the photo. But I have seen several maps which show the BSL-2 and 3 labs are much nearer the market
As ever, you bluster loudly but you’re embarrassingly ill-informed
Sorry: there is literally ZERO evidence that that photo is of either the wet market or the the Wuhan lab.
It's a photo. With circles on it. Providence unknown.
One of the circles says "Wuhan CDC". Which doesn't exist,
The other says "Market".
And I'm the one ill informed?
Are you high?
You didn’t even do your ‘ten seconds of research’ to find out if there were multiple labs in Wuhan. There are. Oh dear.
You don't even know that photo is from Wuhan.
The only thing we know for sure is that "Wuhan CDC" doesn't exist.
And I'm the one not doing my research?
I HAVE done my research. I’m 99% sure that is a map of central Wuhan. And it correctly identifies the Wuhan wet market
However the circled building appears to be a Ramen bar. Which, I confess, does not sound like an evil bioweapon lab
That said, right next door is a research hospital. Who knows. Where are the other, lower level labs? It’s quite an important detail
I did the same search on Google
Two things: 1. That's a seafood market, so are we sure that's the alleged wet market, anyway? And 2. If you look around the images, the hospital is in the middle of some really fancy office and hotel space.
The Wuhan Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market (Chinese: 武汉华南海鲜批发市场),[1][2] also known as the Huanan Seafood Market[3] (Huanan means 'South China'), was a live animal and seafood market in Jianghan District, Wuhan City, the capital of Hubei Province in Central China.
The market became widely known worldwide after being identified as the 'Ground Zero'…
So, it's down to a simple question: was "Wuhan CDC" (which doesn't exist) actually the lab, or was it a noodle bar?
Well, it looks like I’m right and you’re wrong. AGAIN
Check this thread, it links to a live Baidu map which confirms the other red circle is basically correct. That’s the Wuhan Jianghan Disease Prevention and Control Centre
‘The location on the map linked on project-evidence.github.io has changed since the screenshot. Chinese locations have not been accurate on Google Maps in the past, due to restrictions. The correct walking distance between Huanan Seafood Market and Wuhan CDC is most likely 0.5km.’
Has he proved the lab theory now then? - With that photo?
No, he had not proven it.
Proof - either way - may never come, especially if it was a low level escape, and was covered up.
If the virus is discovered in the wild, that would clearly be a big boost for the wild theory. But remember it took six years to find the specific host of SARS and we've never found the hosts of either HIV/AIDS or Ebola.
Also, even if it is found in the wild, it doesn't mean that it wasn't captured and then escaped.
If it leaked from a lab does it follow that the Chinese government know it did and are hence covering up? Or might they be in the dark too?
Nothing is certain, and Robert is right, I certainly did not prove the virus came from the lab, that would make me the internet hero of the century (or the guy who started World War 3), all I proved is that there is a laboratory near the wet market, which might have been a BSL2 centre of risky corona gain-of-function research
What was interesting in that whole exchange was how a smart guy, Robert Smithson, leapt immediately to the conclusion that I had posted some insane Trumpite conspiratorial bollocks, which needed just ten seconds Googling to refute - only for ten seconds googling to show I was completely right, and he was embarrassingly wrong, on all counts
Why this reaction? I think the original gaslighting by the scientific/political Establishment: "lab leak" is mad, Trump believes it, all viruses come from animals naturally - has been notably successful. It has duped many people
The evidence has to be both compatible with leak and incompatible with wild. Just the 1st isn't enough. And unfortunately you can't divorce messenger from message. Not so much you - although there is that - but with all the Trumpian loonies. I'm afraid their support does taint the object of it. There's no easy way around that. It saves so much time to assume everything they say is true is false. It's efficient to do that because it will be the case 99% of the time. But there will be that 1% and maybe this is it. I doubt it but that's all I'm doing. Doubting. Which is a big move. I'm no longer rejecting it out of hand - my efficient default for Trump tat - and I'm not mocking it. Looking forward to being able to mock it again one day but I realize that day might never arrive. Could be permanent limbo on this one - which would not be great for anyone.
I don't particularly give a fuck what you think, so you can save yourself the energy expended in typing long boring narcissistic paragraphs, in future
I do care what Robert Smithson thinks because he is clever and it is bewildering he is confounded by this. Also, he can ban me
Opinium finds only 35% of voters agree with players taking the knee before a game but a further 28% think they should be allowed to do it even if they disagree with it
It went down really well in St. Petersburg when Belgium did it, that's for sure.
Were there a few boos?
Closer to an entire (admittedly half-full) stadium full of whistles.
I did say this the other day we are going to see this throughout the tournament.
They should have done a massive ceremonial knee at the beginning and then ended it. This is the worst of all worlds, the symbolism mocked, the fans annoyed, the players deeply uneasy
Given they had an opening ceremony, perhaps incorporating it there as a one-off might have been the way forward.
At the England friendly it was a curious mix of applause and boos although on balance I thought the former won out. But at St Petersburg it seemed just outright hostility.
Can you blame them?
Russia had zero involvement in the Atlantic slave trade and has fuck all to do with American policing. It has its own racial problems but the idea Russian fans should respect "the death of George Floyd" and this ridiculous, increasingly-embarrassing piece of Anglo-Saxon virtue signalling, by millionaires, is absurd
I'd certainly boo, if I was a St Petersburger
Personally I don't really give a fuck either way if they do it if that's the choice, although one does wonder about instances where there is pressure being exerted to do it (the big discussion in F1 was about certain drivers not doing it and why not etc.).
But I do think doing it, and then subsequently arguing about doing it or not, is mere displacement activity. A salve so that right-on people can say they are tackling an important issue, taking a stand, raising awareness etc. It's all a bit...meta, if I'm honest.
Cases (daily average) - week to 13/9/20 - 2838 Hospitalizations (daily average) 10 days later (week to 23/9) - 243
Fast forward
cases week to 28/5/21 - 2744 Hospitalizations (daily average) week to 7/6 - 108
Far fewer hospitalisations and, I would strongly imagine, involving patients that are (on average) less ill, in need of less care, and are leaving again after shorter stays.
Not that this makes the blindest bit of difference insofar as any of the individuals involved in making decisions about our ongoing privations are concerned.
Con 43% +1 Lab 34% -2 Green 7% +2 Lib Dem 6 ±0 10-11 Jun; change since 27-28 May
Public want restrictions extended (54-37) according to that poll
Stockholm syndrome lol
Your regular reminder that just because something is popular doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.
As one pollster reminds us all the public were in favour of the Iraq War and a few years later hardly anyone admitting to supporting it at the time.
Well quite.
Not according to MORI - in February 2003: a quarter of the public (26%) said they would support British troops being used without proof that Iraq is hiding weapons or a new Security Council resolution, while 63% would oppose, net support of -37; at the end of February, the figures were 24% support, 67% oppose, net -43.
That changed once the Forces were in action, as it always does, then changed back afterwards.
Missing the point again. I was talking about people supporting the war in 2003 then recalling they opposed it years later.
I see Bozo is trying to deflect from the 21st June delay by trying to pick a fight with the EU. The so called oven ready deal was a dogs dinner and now the fat oaf goes to his tiresome sovereignty bollocks when he was the one that signed upto sticking the border in the Irish Sea.
History will record that Boris had three choices: remain (a suicidal hospital pass and only theoretical, but it was there); no deal; a deal which was politically bad in relation to Ireland. No other options existed.
His critics have the luxury, like DUP politicians, of expounding at length what they didn't want but need to note that no other possibility would get through parliament (though of course remain was not tried). (Remain, it is fair to say, would have demolished the balance of UK politics in unforeseeable and catastrophic ways.) The critics, just like the DUP, have not yet come up with a fourth option which would have got through the EU and parliament.
So the question for history will be not was Boris perfect (he wasn't) but were there better options at the time. No.
Boris opted for Get Out. Watch it fail. Renegotiate with an EU once we can all see it must be done. That's what he is doing.
It was the most sensible option by far.
Why not accept aligning UK agriculture standards to the EU and signing up to that ?
UK famers are happy with that and would not stop trade deals with US etc.
Because we voted to take back control.
Having our own rules is literally what Boris and Vote Leave campaigned on in 2016, so entirely right to campaign on and negotiate that in 2019 too.
You are changing what you are saying.
It is purely your ideology getting in the way of aligning agriculture standards to the EU.
It aligns to the 2016 referendum result, it deals with the N Ireland issues.
It is an option, one that would work.
Your ideology stands in its way though.
Aren't standards already perfectly aligned?
No: we have much stricter standards for animal welfare than the EU.
If Boris wants to play hardball over this, the narrative could be constructed which basically asks: Does the EU value keeping the odd, stray, high quality sausage from slipping into County Louth, above peace in Northern Ireland and the GFA?
Obvs to the EU the single market trumps every other country's rights and expectations, but why should it?
If the story can be kept to the contrast of bacon butties and seed potatoes v violence, and a legalistic desire by the EU to defend irrational protectionism Boris could be on a winner.
There is nothing intrinsically rational about the idea, among advanced industrial democracies, that a sausage roll that is safe to eat in Armagh is not safe to eat in Kells. Or Bialystok for that matter.
Cases (daily average) - week to 13/9/20 - 2838 Hospitalizations (daily average) 10 days later (week to 23/9) - 243
Fast forward
cases week to 28/5/21 - 2744 Hospitalizations (daily average) week to 7/6 - 108
Far fewer hospitalisations and, I would strongly imagine, involving patients that are (on average) less ill, in need of less care, and are leaving again after shorter stays.
Not that this makes the blindest bit of difference insofar as any of the individuals involved in making decisions about our ongoing privations are concerned.
This was talked about on the radio the other day.
Essentially we have half the hospitalisations per infection compared to Sept 2020.
Given we are doubling every 10 days then if we let things rip, even if we let things rip much faster as total relaxation would lead to, then we are very very rapidly going to get back to the NHS collapsing.
So who is Amy Maxmen, and why does she matter, in the story of Covid?
Let me explain
She is a well-known science journalist, and she has written a long series of articles for Nature, Scientific American, etc, variously squishing the "lab leak hypothesis" or saying that investigation of it is divisive and pointless
Let's see. In recent days a damning video has emerged, from 2016, where British boffin Peter Daszak - who funded the "gain of function" research at Wuhan, boasts that his colleagues have created "killer coronaviruses"
Watch the video. It's from a 90 minute video panel meeting, broadcast by C-Span from NYC. Now, who is that woman on Peter Daszak's left? Yes, it's Amy Maxmen
Is this a smoking gun? Of course not. She's a journalist. She must meet scientists all the time
However, when confronted with this link, Amy Maxmen did a very strange thing, She denied she knew him. This despite this picture, despite her interviewing Daszak for other articles, and despite her actually tweeting her "honour" to be on that panel alongside him in NYC, and linking him in the tweet (this being one of the few tweets she hasn't hastily deleted, in the last 48 hours)
Pressed further, and shown more photos, Maxmen then said - I kid you not - that the image of her with Daszak had been "doctored" by the ex editor of Breitbart. She claimed it was a fake. She still claimed not to know him
She was then pressed further, and shown overwhelming video and photo and online evidence that she sat alongside Daszak, that she knew him, that she was lying - at this point she dropped the entire argument that the images were faked by Breitbart and she said Oh yes, I forgot I knew him. She forgot she was honoured to be with the man at the centre of the greatest medical story in a century, and she forgot she had interviewed him for other pieces, and she accidentally thought Breitbart was trying to frame her
This IS a smoking gun. There is a small cabal of journalists and scientists trying to cover up their own involvement in 1. Covid origins, and 2. The cover up of these origins
Cases (daily average) - week to 13/9/20 - 2838 Hospitalizations (daily average) 10 days later (week to 23/9) - 243
Fast forward
cases week to 28/5/21 - 2744 Hospitalizations (daily average) week to 7/6 - 108
Far fewer hospitalisations and, I would strongly imagine, involving patients that are (on average) less ill, in need of less care, and are leaving again after shorter stays.
Not that this makes the blindest bit of difference insofar as any of the individuals involved in making decisions about our ongoing privations are concerned.
This was talked about on the radio the other day.
Essentially we have half the hospitalisations per infection compared to Sept 2020.
Given we are doubling every 10 days then if we let things rip, even if we let things rip much faster as total relaxation would lead to, then we are very very rapidly going to get back to the NHS collapsing.
Assuming it followed the same trajectory. Given the number of double vaccinated people in vulnerable groups, that seems a very bold assumption.
I think you may have an interest in that, but of course here in Wales our minister has spoken to my son and his partner today and confirmed the service with 40 attendees for the 31st July and another 30 can gather socially distanced outside in the Church grounds, before all of us go to the marquee for the wedding breakfast
They are delighted and my son is setting up to broadcast the service on YouTube from inside the church to everyone, and indeed to our other son and daughter in law in Vancouver
Mind you he is head of IT and Network service at his school so he has the expertise to do it cost free
I hope all goes well for them, we are doing the wedding with 30 and a livesteam next weekend in Oxford and a Thanksgiving reception outdoors on July 3rd in Epping for 50-60 at present rules depending
Perhaps you could postpone a day, then have a BIG fireworks display?
Congratulations & best of British luck - or even better, American luck - with the weather!
Cases (daily average) - week to 13/9/20 - 2838 Hospitalizations (daily average) 10 days later (week to 23/9) - 243
Fast forward
cases week to 28/5/21 - 2744 Hospitalizations (daily average) week to 7/6 - 108
Far fewer hospitalisations and, I would strongly imagine, involving patients that are (on average) less ill, in need of less care, and are leaving again after shorter stays.
Not that this makes the blindest bit of difference insofar as any of the individuals involved in making decisions about our ongoing privations are concerned.
This was talked about on the radio the other day.
Essentially we have half the hospitalisations per infection compared to Sept 2020.
Given we are doubling every 10 days then if we let things rip, even if we let things rip much faster as total relaxation would lead to, then we are very very rapidly going to get back to the NHS collapsing.
Assuming it followed the same trajectory. Given the number of double vaccinated people in vulnerable groups, that seems a very bold assumption.
Cases (daily average) - week to 13/9/20 - 2838 Hospitalizations (daily average) 10 days later (week to 23/9) - 243
Fast forward
cases week to 28/5/21 - 2744 Hospitalizations (daily average) week to 7/6 - 108
Far fewer hospitalisations and, I would strongly imagine, involving patients that are (on average) less ill, in need of less care, and are leaving again after shorter stays.
Not that this makes the blindest bit of difference insofar as any of the individuals involved in making decisions about our ongoing privations are concerned.
This was talked about on the radio the other day.
Essentially we have half the hospitalisations per infection compared to Sept 2020.
Given we are doubling every 10 days then if we let things rip, even if we let things rip much faster as total relaxation would lead to, then we are very very rapidly going to get back to the NHS collapsing.
Assuming it followed the same trajectory. Given the number of double vaccinated people in vulnerable groups, that seems a very bold assumption.
I see Bozo is trying to deflect from the 21st June delay by trying to pick a fight with the EU. The so called oven ready deal was a dogs dinner and now the fat oaf goes to his tiresome sovereignty bollocks when he was the one that signed upto sticking the border in the Irish Sea.
History will record that Boris had three choices: remain (a suicidal hospital pass and only theoretical, but it was there); no deal; a deal which was politically bad in relation to Ireland. No other options existed.
His critics have the luxury, like DUP politicians, of expounding at length what they didn't want but need to note that no other possibility would get through parliament (though of course remain was not tried). (Remain, it is fair to say, would have demolished the balance of UK politics in unforeseeable and catastrophic ways.) The critics, just like the DUP, have not yet come up with a fourth option which would have got through the EU and parliament.
So the question for history will be not was Boris perfect (he wasn't) but were there better options at the time. No.
Boris opted for Get Out. Watch it fail. Renegotiate with an EU once we can all see it must be done. That's what he is doing.
It was the most sensible option by far.
Why not accept aligning UK agriculture standards to the EU and signing up to that ?
UK famers are happy with that and would not stop trade deals with US etc.
Because we voted to take back control.
Having our own rules is literally what Boris and Vote Leave campaigned on in 2016, so entirely right to campaign on and negotiate that in 2019 too.
You are changing what you are saying.
It is purely your ideology getting in the way of aligning agriculture standards to the EU.
It aligns to the 2016 referendum result, it deals with the N Ireland issues.
It is an option, one that would work.
Your ideology stands in its way though.
Aren't standards already perfectly aligned?
No: we have much stricter standards for animal welfare than the EU.
If Boris wants to play hardball over this, the narrative could be constructed which basically asks: Does the EU value keeping the odd, stray, high quality sausage from slipping into County Louth, above peace in Northern Ireland and the GFA?
Obvs to the EU the single market trumps every other country's rights and expectations, but why should it?
If the story can be kept to the contrast of bacon butties and seed potatoes v violence, and a legalistic desire by the EU to defend irrational protectionism Boris could be on a winner.
There is nothing intrinsically rational about the idea, among advanced industrial democracies, that a sausage roll that is safe to eat in Armagh is not safe to eat in Kells. Or Bialystok for that matter.
"keeping the odd, stray, high quality sausage from slipping into County Louth"
Moderator! Must we PBers be subjected to THIS kind of filthy, obscene & lewd (take your pick) innuendo?
Cases (daily average) - week to 13/9/20 - 2838 Hospitalizations (daily average) 10 days later (week to 23/9) - 243
Fast forward
cases week to 28/5/21 - 2744 Hospitalizations (daily average) week to 7/6 - 108
Far fewer hospitalisations and, I would strongly imagine, involving patients that are (on average) less ill, in need of less care, and are leaving again after shorter stays.
Not that this makes the blindest bit of difference insofar as any of the individuals involved in making decisions about our ongoing privations are concerned.
This was talked about on the radio the other day.
Essentially we have half the hospitalisations per infection compared to Sept 2020.
Given we are doubling every 10 days then if we let things rip, even if we let things rip much faster as total relaxation would lead to, then we are very very rapidly going to get back to the NHS collapsing.
Except they are not staying in hospital. Shorter stays, of younger, less sick people, hence the total in hospital only gently rising.
Cases (daily average) - week to 13/9/20 - 2838 Hospitalizations (daily average) 10 days later (week to 23/9) - 243
Fast forward
cases week to 28/5/21 - 2744 Hospitalizations (daily average) week to 7/6 - 108
Far fewer hospitalisations and, I would strongly imagine, involving patients that are (on average) less ill, in need of less care, and are leaving again after shorter stays.
Not that this makes the blindest bit of difference insofar as any of the individuals involved in making decisions about our ongoing privations are concerned.
This was talked about on the radio the other day.
Essentially we have half the hospitalisations per infection compared to Sept 2020.
Given we are doubling every 10 days then if we let things rip, even if we let things rip much faster as total relaxation would lead to, then we are very very rapidly going to get back to the NHS collapsing.
Assuming it followed the same trajectory. Given the number of double vaccinated people in vulnerable groups, that seems a very bold assumption.
We are following that trajectory, so far.
More of Less podcast from memory, worth a listen.
Those are the key words.
Of course
So do you want to risk another 4months of lock down by relaxing too early, causing utter collapse in public confidence, or take another few weeks to take time to have confidence that you are not going to utterly destroy the economy by opening too soon?
I see Bozo is trying to deflect from the 21st June delay by trying to pick a fight with the EU. The so called oven ready deal was a dogs dinner and now the fat oaf goes to his tiresome sovereignty bollocks when he was the one that signed upto sticking the border in the Irish Sea.
History will record that Boris had three choices: remain (a suicidal hospital pass and only theoretical, but it was there); no deal; a deal which was politically bad in relation to Ireland. No other options existed.
His critics have the luxury, like DUP politicians, of expounding at length what they didn't want but need to note that no other possibility would get through parliament (though of course remain was not tried). (Remain, it is fair to say, would have demolished the balance of UK politics in unforeseeable and catastrophic ways.) The critics, just like the DUP, have not yet come up with a fourth option which would have got through the EU and parliament.
So the question for history will be not was Boris perfect (he wasn't) but were there better options at the time. No.
Boris opted for Get Out. Watch it fail. Renegotiate with an EU once we can all see it must be done. That's what he is doing.
It was the most sensible option by far.
Why not accept aligning UK agriculture standards to the EU and signing up to that ?
UK famers are happy with that and would not stop trade deals with US etc.
Because we voted to take back control.
Having our own rules is literally what Boris and Vote Leave campaigned on in 2016, so entirely right to campaign on and negotiate that in 2019 too.
You are changing what you are saying.
It is purely your ideology getting in the way of aligning agriculture standards to the EU.
It aligns to the 2016 referendum result, it deals with the N Ireland issues.
It is an option, one that would work.
Your ideology stands in its way though.
Aren't standards already perfectly aligned?
No: we have much stricter standards for animal welfare than the EU.
If Boris wants to play hardball over this, the narrative could be constructed which basically asks: Does the EU value keeping the odd, stray, high quality sausage from slipping into County Louth, above peace in Northern Ireland and the GFA?
Obvs to the EU the single market trumps every other country's rights and expectations, but why should it?
If the story can be kept to the contrast of bacon butties and seed potatoes v violence, and a legalistic desire by the EU to defend irrational protectionism Boris could be on a winner.
There is nothing intrinsically rational about the idea, among advanced industrial democracies, that a sausage roll that is safe to eat in Armagh is not safe to eat in Kells. Or Bialystok for that matter.
"keeping the odd, stray, high quality sausage from slipping into County Louth"
Moderator! Must we PBers be subjected to THIS kind of filthy, obscene & lewd (take your pick) innuendo?
Am hoping the answer is, yes!
A veterinary inspector has just told me that all this BS about sausages is largely due to what we define as a ‘sausage’ being different from the EU’s definition.
I assumed he’d been watching too much Yes Minister, but he assured me he hasn’t been and this really is a problem. A bit like that ridiculous time they wanted us to rename chocolate Vegelate due to the different proportion of cocoa beans in it.
Cases (daily average) - week to 13/9/20 - 2838 Hospitalizations (daily average) 10 days later (week to 23/9) - 243
Fast forward
cases week to 28/5/21 - 2744 Hospitalizations (daily average) week to 7/6 - 108
Far fewer hospitalisations and, I would strongly imagine, involving patients that are (on average) less ill, in need of less care, and are leaving again after shorter stays.
Not that this makes the blindest bit of difference insofar as any of the individuals involved in making decisions about our ongoing privations are concerned.
This was talked about on the radio the other day.
Essentially we have half the hospitalisations per infection compared to Sept 2020.
Given we are doubling every 10 days then if we let things rip, even if we let things rip much faster as total relaxation would lead to, then we are very very rapidly going to get back to the NHS collapsing.
Assuming it followed the same trajectory. Given the number of double vaccinated people in vulnerable groups, that seems a very bold assumption.
We are following that trajectory, so far.
More of Less podcast from memory, worth a listen.
Those are the key words.
Of course
So do you want to risk another 4months of lock down by relaxing too early, causing utter collapse in public confidence, or take another few weeks to take time to have confidence that you are not going to utterly destroy the economy by opening too soon?
It is almost inconceivable on the figures presented that there could be another lockdown. This isn’t a variant that leads to significant vaccine escape. So although it is running riot among those in vulnerable groups who have for whatever reason have declined the vaccine, and in younger groups who are yet to be jabbed, it’s going to run out of potential hosts quite quickly.
My concern is that I am seeing people arguing for further arbitrary extensions based on dubious models that have so far been consistently wrong, when all the actual data we have points to a much lower peak.
And finally, if it really is that virulent among children there is very little point keeping everything else shuttered and schools open, as it will spread there anyway. And I don’t think one school in Bedford apart anyone is proposing that.
So a postponement would seem pretty pointless from an epidemiological point of view.
Comments
That would decimate posting volumes on here. Could actually kill the site.
Denmark aren’t having a good day
As one pollster reminds us all the public were in favour of the Iraq War and a few years later hardly anyone admitting to supporting it at the time.
https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1403791681196068864?s=20
They need to find an alternative by next season. Something less divisive, like the cricketers.
https://twitter.com/ptgorst/status/1403793250331287552
Copa America 2021: Twelve of Venezuela's players and coaching staff test positive for Covid-19 - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57456469
He's scared of crosses
"And the public wants what the public gets
But I don't get what this society wants"
Although on this, I'm on the side of the majority.
https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/VI-10-06-21-Observer-corrected.xlsx
My dad - who's spent the last two weeks saying that we will open up on 21 June - thinks that if they're worried, then they should shut pubs etc. And I think he's right.
What happens when things don't get better in three weeks time? They'll extend and extend and extend. It would be better to reverse the last reopening and get cases down and give a bit more time for the vaccines to take effect.
Surreal game.
What was interesting in that whole exchange was how a smart guy, Robert Smithson, leapt immediately to the conclusion that I had posted some insane Trumpite conspiratorial bollocks, which needed just ten seconds Googling to refute - only for ten seconds googling to show I was completely right, and he was embarrassingly wrong, on all counts
Why this reaction? I think the original gaslighting by the scientific/political Establishment: "lab leak" is mad, Trump believes it, all viruses come from animals naturally - has been notably successful. It has duped many people
Didn't know it was created by a Brit....bit embarrassing for the French.
That will stop amusing me.
A bit like a Bulgarian player with a surname that sounded like 'Bollock off'.
They are delighted and my son is setting up to broadcast the service on YouTube from inside the church to everyone, and indeed to our other son and daughter in law in Vancouver
Mind you he is head of IT and Network service at his school so he has the expertise to do it cost free
The bowlers have been OK, and even better with the bat than the batsmen themselves.
https://twitter.com/G7/status/1403797976061988864?s=20
At the England friendly it was a curious mix of applause and boos although on balance I thought the former won out. But at St Petersburg it seemed just outright hostility.
Suits??!
For about 2.4 nanoseconds.
Then I remembered the old proverb about stopped clocks.
Russia had zero involvement in the Atlantic slave trade and has fuck all to do with American policing. It has its own racial problems but the idea Russian fans should respect "the death of George Floyd" and this ridiculous, increasingly-embarrassing piece of Anglo-Saxon virtue signalling, by millionaires, is absurd
I'd certainly boo, if I was a St Petersburger
For his nom d'évasion he called himself "Ivan Bugeroff".
That changed once the Forces were in action, as it always does, then changed back afterwards.
But I do think doing it, and then subsequently arguing about doing it or not, is mere displacement activity. A salve so that right-on people can say they are tackling an important issue, taking a stand, raising awareness etc. It's all a bit...meta, if I'm honest.
https://lettersofnote.com/2009/10/28/we-all-feel-like-that-now-and-then/
Hence Putin is so popular with white nationalists and racists
Cases (daily average) - week to 13/9/20 - 2838
Hospitalizations (daily average) 10 days later (week to 23/9) - 243
Fast forward
cases week to 28/5/21 - 2744
Hospitalizations (daily average) week to 7/6 - 108
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2015/06/03/remembering-iraq
It was something that happened in America as well.
https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2015/05/21/americans-remember-opposing-2003-war-iraq
I do care what Robert Smithson thinks because he is clever and it is bewildering he is confounded by this. Also, he can ban me
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9679605/Jeremy-Corbyn-joins-smoke-grenade-touting-pro-Palestine-protestors-Downing-Street.html
(My summer holiday last year was in the house just behind the Hidden Hut).
Not that this makes the blindest bit of difference insofar as any of the individuals involved in making decisions about our ongoing privations are concerned.
I agree with that anyway.
(Yes, I know, that's Romania, but it's close enough.)
Obvs to the EU the single market trumps every other country's rights and expectations, but why should it?
If the story can be kept to the contrast of bacon butties and seed potatoes v violence, and a legalistic desire by the EU to defend irrational protectionism Boris could be on a winner.
There is nothing intrinsically rational about the idea, among advanced industrial democracies, that a sausage roll that is safe to eat in Armagh is not safe to eat in Kells. Or Bialystok for that matter.
Essentially we have half the hospitalisations per infection compared to Sept 2020.
Given we are doubling every 10 days then if we let things rip, even if we let things rip much faster as total relaxation would lead to, then we are very very rapidly going to get back to the NHS collapsing.
Let me explain
She is a well-known science journalist, and she has written a long series of articles for Nature, Scientific American, etc, variously squishing the "lab leak hypothesis" or saying that investigation of it is divisive and pointless
Here's just one, recently,
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01383-3
Here's another, which was eagerly cited by our own parochial halfwit, NigelB, as a "balanced" analysis of the hypotheses
https://twitter.com/amymaxmen/status/1402376072029642764?s=20
But is she balanced?
Let's see. In recent days a damning video has emerged, from 2016, where British boffin Peter Daszak - who funded the "gain of function" research at Wuhan, boasts that his colleagues have created "killer coronaviruses"
No joke:
https://twitter.com/jimduey/status/1402606579875254272?s=20
Watch the video. It's from a 90 minute video panel meeting, broadcast by C-Span from NYC. Now, who is that woman on Peter Daszak's left? Yes, it's Amy Maxmen
Is this a smoking gun? Of course not. She's a journalist. She must meet scientists all the time
However, when confronted with this link, Amy Maxmen did a very strange thing, She denied she knew him. This despite this picture, despite her interviewing Daszak for other articles, and despite her actually tweeting her "honour" to be on that panel alongside him in NYC, and linking him in the tweet (this being one of the few tweets she hasn't hastily deleted, in the last 48 hours)
Pressed further, and shown more photos, Maxmen then said - I kid you not - that the image of her with Daszak had been "doctored" by the ex editor of Breitbart. She claimed it was a fake. She still claimed not to know him
She was then pressed further, and shown overwhelming video and photo and online evidence that she sat alongside Daszak, that she knew him, that she was lying - at this point she dropped the entire argument that the images were faked by Breitbart and she said Oh yes, I forgot I knew him. She forgot she was honoured to be with the man at the centre of the greatest medical story in a century, and she forgot she had interviewed him for other pieces, and she accidentally thought Breitbart was trying to frame her
https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1403538394123169793?s=20
This IS a smoking gun. There is a small cabal of journalists and scientists trying to cover up their own involvement in 1. Covid origins, and 2. The cover up of these origins
This is now indisputable.
Congratulations & best of British luck - or even better, American luck - with the weather!
More of Less podcast from memory, worth a listen.
Moderator! Must we PBers be subjected to THIS kind of filthy, obscene & lewd (take your pick) innuendo?
Am hoping the answer is, yes!
So do you want to risk another 4months of lock down by relaxing too early, causing utter collapse in public confidence, or take another few weeks to take time to have confidence that you are not going to utterly destroy the economy by opening too soon?
I assumed he’d been watching too much Yes Minister, but he assured me he hasn’t been and this really is a problem. A bit like that ridiculous time they wanted us to rename chocolate Vegelate due to the different proportion of cocoa beans in it.
Seems like everyone wanted Geffrye taken down, but the government Bungled it.
My concern is that I am seeing people arguing for further arbitrary extensions based on dubious models that have so far been consistently wrong, when all the actual data we have points to a much lower peak.
And finally, if it really is that virulent among children there is very little point keeping everything else shuttered and schools open, as it will spread there anyway. And I don’t think one school in Bedford apart anyone is proposing that.
So a postponement would seem pretty pointless from an epidemiological point of view.
Anyway, I am off to bed. Have a good evening.