Maybe it's true, and their stats don't lie, and they just did a brilliant job. Why and how? - because they knew early on what they were dealing with: because their scientists studied it or even created it in the lab
They would have done a good job anyway. Remember this virus is SARS - a mutant thereof (whatever may have caused the mutation) but still SARS. If someone here knows Mandarin they can confirm whether or not this is obvious from the words used by officials and "influencers". (Note to pedants: yes, SARS denotes a syndrome as does Covid-19 but it also denotes the virus in both its CoV1 and CoV2 forms.) "SARS is back - stay indoors". Or a message to local officials: "SARS is back - get your welding equipment out." Bang. Near-total lockdown. Death rates with Covid-19 per 1 million population: China ~3; USA ~1800.
Then there was Boris Johnson saying on 5 March "one of the theories is, that perhaps you could take it on the chin, take it all in one go and allow the disease, as it were, to move through the population, without taking as many draconian measures. I think we need to strike a balance".
"SARS is back - let's wait and see and try to strike a balance" - doesn't work. China was much better prepared regardless of what happened or didn't happen in its labs in the year or so before the outbreak.
GB News isn't going to be "rolling news" apparently. More a series of news related programmes ala Rachel Maddow or Tucker Carlson.
Like LBC.
Isn't LBC more phone ins? And "interviews" with guests.
That isn't what Maddow or Carlson does. They basically get an hour to rant about something in the news and very few guests / interviews. Hannity is normally just him with a series of extended monologues.
"The London-based commentariat has convinced itself that Geordie Tory is a left-behind loser who voted for a Brexit and Boris spit-roast to express his rage at globalisation. This is only a small part of the story. For the hidden truth about Geordie Tory is that he is actually doing rather well for himself. He did not go to university (thus avoiding a pile of student debt), but quickly found a job at a local firm, and his money goes much further in the north than it would in the south. He lives in a four-bedroomed semi-detached, has a couple of cars in the drive and can rely on two sets of grandparents to chip in with child care. He zips to work or Asda in a few minutes, thinks the local school is doing an acceptable job and looks forward to his next holiday in Florida, providing the government can stop faffing about. He pities his school friends who went to university, moved down south and now either live in a crowded flat or (before the covid-19 pandemic) spent a couple of hours a day on a packed train."
GB News isn't going to be "rolling news" apparently. More a series of news related programmes ala Rachel Maddow or Tucker Carlson.
Like LBC.
Isn't LBC more phone ins?
That isn't what Maddow or Carlson does. They basically get an hour to rant about something in the news.and very few guests / interviews.
I'm not sure tbh. It has been decades since I used to listen to Clive Bull and Murder After Midnight. https://www.lbc.co.uk/
Blimey. Clive's on now.
I don't listen to it, but whenever I see clips it always seems to be a caller getting "owned" e.g. James O'Brien or maajid nawaz ...because a combination of them not being very smart and the fact the host has the megaphone controls so they can just drown them out.
Outside it is Ferrari interviewing a politician, but that normally revolves around callers as well.
"The London-based commentariat has convinced itself that Geordie Tory is a left-behind loser who voted for a Brexit and Boris spit-roast to express his rage at globalisation. This is only a small part of the story. For the hidden truth about Geordie Tory is that he is actually doing rather well for himself. He did not go to university (thus avoiding a pile of student debt), but quickly found a job at a local firm, and his money goes much further in the north than it would in the south. He lives in a four-bedroomed semi-detached, has a couple of cars in the drive and can rely on two sets of grandparents to chip in with child care. He zips to work or Asda in a few minutes, thinks the local school is doing an acceptable job and looks forward to his next holiday in Florida, providing the government can stop faffing about. He pities his school friends who went to university, moved down south and now either live in a crowded flat or (before the covid-19 pandemic) spent a couple of hours a day on a packed train."
"The London-based commentariat has convinced itself that Geordie Tory is a left-behind loser who voted for a Brexit and Boris spit-roast to express his rage at globalisation. This is only a small part of the story. For the hidden truth about Geordie Tory is that he is actually doing rather well for himself. He did not go to university (thus avoiding a pile of student debt), but quickly found a job at a local firm, and his money goes much further in the north than it would in the south. He lives in a four-bedroomed semi-detached, has a couple of cars in the drive and can rely on two sets of grandparents to chip in with child care. He zips to work or Asda in a few minutes, thinks the local school is doing an acceptable job and looks forward to his next holiday in Florida, providing the government can stop faffing about. He pities his school friends who went to university, moved down south and now either live in a crowded flat or (before the covid-19 pandemic) spent a couple of hours a day on a packed train."
Huge queues at Sheffield's Crucible Theatre pop-up vaccine site
A pop-up Covid vaccine clinic in Sheffield reached capacity shortly after opening - prompting officials to ask people not to attend. The clinic initially had 500 doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine available, and managed to secure a further 200.
FFS....we have over 6 million sodding doses blocking up a warehouse. Sid has now having to ask the neighbours if he can store some in their fridges....Rather than 700, they could have been doing 7000.
That's just poor management.
Any number of clinics in towns do more than that on a continuing basis.
The evidence has to be both compatible with leak and incompatible with wild. Just the 1st isn't enough. And unfortunately you can't divorce messenger from message. Not so much you - although there is that - but with all the Trumpian loonies. I'm afraid their support does taint the object of it. There's no easy way around that. It saves so much time to assume everything they say is true is false. It's efficient to do that because it will be the case 99% of the time. But there will be that 1% and maybe this is it. I doubt it but that's all I'm doing. Doubting. Which is a big move. I'm no longer rejecting it out of hand - my efficient default for Trump tat - and I'm not mocking it. Looking forward to being able to mock it again one day but I realize that day might never arrive. Could be permanent limbo on this one - which would not be great for anyone.
Actually it doesn't. It's possible for a virus of natural origin to be leaked from the lab. In fact by trying to prove that the virus has artificial origin in order to support a lab leak theory, people actually undermine the possibility of a lab leak. It is highly unlikely that the virus has an artificial origin, while the leak of a naturally occurring virus from a lab in Wuhan is plausible. The evidence for the latter is circumstantial however.
Yes, quite
But to make it clear, there are now four hypotheses, and here's the probability I give to them:
1. Natural Zoonosis - the trad "wet market" theory - 20%
2. Accidental but natural "lab leak" - a worker gets bitten in Yunnan, bat blood is spilled in a Wuhan lab - 60%
3. Accidental lab leak of an altered virus - a spillage means a gain-of-function bug escapes into the world - 19.9%
4. Deliberate leak of a bioweapon - 0.1%
And for 2 and 3 - if true - what is the chance the Chinese government know as opposed to don't know?
For 4 it's obviously 100% vs 0%.
Tricky, but in both cases I'd say it's highly likely the Chinese government knows, and also that they knew quite early on
The evidence that they know now is the enormous cover-up, the policing of the mine, the destruction of the Wuhan database, the lies about the viruses they studied, the lies about early infections, the obsession with crushing the lab leak hypothesis, the death or disappearance of so many crucial witnesses, the refusal to allow any external inquiry, the use of manipulative figures like Daszak, and so and so on
The evidence they knew early on is less overwhelming, but still fairly impressive: the extremely early vaccine proposals, the suppression of dissenting voices from the start, and - most of all - the amazingly successful Chinese reaction to the virus, once they locked down Hubei
This is a nation of 1.4bn people, the cradle of a terrible pathogen, and only 4000 died, unlike 4 million around the world? Really?
Maybe it's true, and their stats don't lie, and they just did a brilliant job. Why and how? - because they knew early on what they were dealing with: because their scientists studied it or even created it in the lab
Right. Ok. But the last time we exchanged on this you advanced the following as strong evidence that the natural origin was unlikely - that China had absolutely and genuinely busted a gut trying to find animal zero and had come up empty handed.
So, my question - if they know it leaked from a lab why would they be doing that? They'd know it was futile.
It would have been quite suspicious had they not looked.
But if they were only pretending to look, it can't then be advanced as evidence against the natural origin that they failed to find anything.
See the problem?
Why not?
Because not finding something you are not looking for is hardly evidence it's not there.
A search has to be real for its failure to be meaningful.
Unless the search wasn't real because they know that it came from a lab in the first place
Comments
"SARS is back - let's wait and see and try to strike a balance" - doesn't work. China was much better prepared regardless of what happened or didn't happen in its labs in the year or so before the outbreak.
That isn't what Maddow or Carlson does. They basically get an hour to rant about something in the news and very few guests / interviews. Hannity is normally just him with a series of extended monologues.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/
Blimey. Clive's on now.
https://www.economist.com/britain/2021/06/12/a-new-version-of-essex-man-is-born-in-the-north
Outside it is Ferrari interviewing a politician, but that normally revolves around callers as well.
I don't intend to watch GB News either.
Guess what?
Any number of clinics in towns do more than that on a continuing basis.
And Sheffield is a medium sized city.