Without the required media access to quiz participants, this G7 is just a spin machine not worthy of the media coverage it is getting.
People (media and public) like a spectacle. Important people hob nobbing is pagentry but it is comforting pagentry. And if you are lucky you get a clip of Trudeau, Boris, Rutte and Macron laughing about Trump.
I can’t have a clip of Trudeau without knowing with a few seconds of makeup he can do the Black and White Minstrel show. He already has turned up with the hair.
And yet. He continues to win. Looks likely to win again. Same with Ardern. It is the sine qua non of politics.
Andrew Scheer and the Canadian Conservatives actually came out ahead in votes at the 2019 federal election, but Trudeau still won.
Funny... I don't remember too many compliants from the Left about the unfairness of the electoral system at the time.
Actually the Left in Canada were incandescent. Particularly as electoral reform was one of the major prongs Trudeau won the previous election on. The system hugely benefits the centre. Which is where Trudeau sits.
Seats wise maybe but not in terms of forming a government, for example Corbyn would not have got as close as he did in 2017 to leading a leftwing Labour government with an overall majority under PR
Christ alive.....surely gravity has to come into play at some point.
I would expect a clear shift from Tory to ReformUK if Freedom Day is postponed by Boris next week as is likely.
I doubt it would change the Labour or LD vote much but if the Reform candidate gets 5,000 votes or so in Thursday's Chesham and Amersham by election as a protest vote at the extended restrictions that could cut the Tory vote drastically and see the LDs get close even if the Tories scrape a hold
I thought the Reform candidate isn't standing?
There is a ReformUK candidate in Chesham and Amersham on Thursday who is campaigning hard on an end all restrictions ticket and even has his own battlebus
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Don't sweat on it, we all get cranky sometimes. Especially me.
If the Supreme Blunderer finally does let us out of jail in a few weeks' time then all will be well, but as @Leon points out the batshit crazy wing of the scientific establishment is on the march, so those of us who are dead nervous are not lacking in justification.
You’re really not “in jail”. Bars are open at restricted capacity, and nightclubs are shut, but life for most people still goes on.
My wife and I had a long chat this morning and we're both of the same mind, if the UK falls into permanent measures we're going to leave the country even if we have to sell the house we've just bought and leave people behind. The life that the government and scientists have planned for us isn't real life, it's a facsimile of it.
We probably would do a variation - spend several months a year somewhere else and come back to the UK for various things but I share your views.
But some good news the other way. With Trump gone, me and my wife are back on with our US roadtrip.
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Don't sweat on it, we all get cranky sometimes. Especially me.
If the Supreme Blunderer finally does let us out of jail in a few weeks' time then all will be well, but as @Leon points out the batshit crazy wing of the scientific establishment is on the march, so those of us who are dead nervous are not lacking in justification.
You’re really not “in jail”. Bars are open at restricted capacity, and nightclubs are shut, but life for most people still goes on.
True, but the real concern here is (a) that the remaining restrictions will continue indefinitely and (b) when the cases keep going up, the Government may indeed panic and reverse back into lockdown.
We all hope that neither of those things will happen, but you'd be foolish to dismiss the prospect out of hand. Weak, frightened, vacillating PM + a lot of catastrophist public health radicals = disaster potential.
Christ alive.....surely gravity has to come into play at some point.
I would expect a clear shift from Tory to ReformUK if Freedom Day is postponed by Boris next week as is likely.
I doubt it would change the Labour or LD vote much but if the Reform candidate gets 5,000 votes or so in Thursday's Chesham and Amersham by election as a protest vote at the extended restrictions that could cut the Tory vote drastically and see the LDs get close even if the Tories scrape a hold
I thought the Reform candidate isn't standing?
There is a ReformUK candidate in Chesham and Amersham on Thursday who is campaigning hard on an end all restrictions ticket and even has his own battlebus
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
Christ alive.....surely gravity has to come into play at some point.
I would expect a clear shift from Tory to ReformUK if Freedom Day is postponed by Boris next week as is likely.
I doubt it would change the Labour or LD vote much but if the Reform candidate gets 5,000 votes or so in Thursday's Chesham and Amersham by election as a protest vote at the extended restrictions that could cut the Tory vote drastically and see the LDs get close even if the Tories scrape a hold
I thought the Reform candidate isn't standing?
There is a ReformUK candidate in Chesham and Amersham on Thursday who is campaigning hard on an end all restrictions ticket and even has his own battlebus
He's lashing out. The interviewer called him out for being a liar, which he doesn't like, even though he is one. Probably OK although we can't be sure. The chaos that surrounds him is real enough even if he is false in other ways.
The quote at 12.21.34 is telling: "you've just got to do whatever it takes to protect life"
The covid zealots have won. The war is over. We will not learn to live with this, like we do flu (which kills people every winter). We will do whatever it takes to avoid loss of life.
Whatever it takes.
Whatever it takes is a biosecurity state with lockdown and social distancing and rules for ever.
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Don't sweat on it, we all get cranky sometimes. Especially me.
If the Supreme Blunderer finally does let us out of jail in a few weeks' time then all will be well, but as @Leon points out the batshit crazy wing of the scientific establishment is on the march, so those of us who are dead nervous are not lacking in justification.
You’re really not “in jail”. Bars are open at restricted capacity, and nightclubs are shut, but life for most people still goes on.
True, but the real concern here is (a) that the remaining restrictions will continue indefinitely and (b) when the cases keep going up, the Government may indeed panic and reverse back into lockdown.
We all hope that neither of those things will happen, but you'd be foolish to dismiss the prospect out of hand. Weak, frightened, vacillating PM + a lot of catastrophist public health radicals = disaster potential.
The Johnson government will commit to nothing. The irreversible journey is perfectly reversible if it suits.
I am getting increasingly irate with DougSeal’s contention that it was just “U.K. citizens returning home”.
What the hell were they doing in India - aka PLAGUE CENTRAL - in the first place? Well, we know what; they were visiting relatives and getting a bit of sun. @Foxy called them “Gujarati snowbirds” or some such.
We watched it all happen in real time and many of us called it out at the time.
The reason they were in India was that, until quite late March, it was considered to have turned the Covid corner and was a safe place to go. It had apparently low Covid prevalence and lockdown restrictions were significantly fewer than the UK's. This was what the world's press was saying about India in February and March -
"Coronavirus: Is the epidemic finally coming to an end in India?"
"India suffers highest daily coronavirus infections in five months"
"India has been reporting a spike in cases - above the 60,000 mark - for three consecutive days, though Monday’s rise was still below September’s peak of more than 90,000 cases a day."
India had, for several months, been held up as some sort of Covid miracle, people were going round openly asking whether they had reached herd immunity, or had some mysterous antibody protection, The test series with England was in front of nearly full stadia. Things were going great. Until, bang, they were not.
As cases exploded, quite suddenly, in India over three weeks in early April people came home. It's as simple as that.
It would have been a bit harsh on British Indians, visiting family in India, to leave them stranded there, having to use their health system, in those circumstances wouldn't it? I guess the issue is quarantining when they returned to the UK
The government should have said back in March 2020 than anyone who leaves Britain does so at their own risk and is liable to being stranded without warning.
Instead it has preferred to put restrictions on the domestic economy and society to putting restrictions on international travel.
Yeah sounds sensible, but had there been footage of thousands of British Citizens suffering with Covid and relying on overwhelmed Indian health services, the outrage would have been through the roof.
Boris shouldn’t have said a specific date for reopening I guess, just said he’d review things every fortnight or so
The outrage from some would have been through the roof.
The response from the majority would have been "couldn't give a toss, they shouldn't have gone there".
Christ alive.....surely gravity has to come into play at some point.
I would expect a clear shift from Tory to ReformUK if Freedom Day is postponed by Boris next week as is likely.
I doubt it would change the Labour or LD vote much but if the Reform candidate gets 5,000 votes or so in Thursday's Chesham and Amersham by election as a protest vote at the extended restrictions that could cut the Tory vote drastically and see the LDs get close even if the Tories scrape a hold
I thought the Reform candidate isn't standing?
There is a ReformUK candidate in Chesham and Amersham on Thursday who is campaigning hard on an end all restrictions ticket and even has his own battlebus
Christ alive.....surely gravity has to come into play at some point.
I would expect a clear shift from Tory to ReformUK if Freedom Day is postponed by Boris next week as is likely.
I doubt it would change the Labour or LD vote much but if the Reform candidate gets 5,000 votes or so in Thursday's Chesham and Amersham by election as a protest vote at the extended restrictions that could cut the Tory vote drastically and see the LDs get close even if the Tories scrape a hold
I thought the Reform candidate isn't standing?
There is a ReformUK candidate in Chesham and Amersham on Thursday who is campaigning hard on an end all restrictions ticket and even has his own battlebus
If it is genuinely a delay what is gained from waiting till Monday to announce it? Other than lessening the opportunities to soften everyone up by leaking that it's already been decided anyway?
I am getting increasingly irate with DougSeal’s contention that it was just “U.K. citizens returning home”.
What the hell were they doing in India - aka PLAGUE CENTRAL - in the first place? Well, we know what; they were visiting relatives and getting a bit of sun. @Foxy called them “Gujarati snowbirds” or some such.
We watched it all happen in real time and many of us called it out at the time.
The reason they were in India was that, until quite late March, it was considered to have turned the Covid corner and was a safe place to go. It had apparently low Covid prevalence and lockdown restrictions were significantly fewer than the UK's. This was what the world's press was saying about India in February and March -
"Coronavirus: Is the epidemic finally coming to an end in India?"
"India suffers highest daily coronavirus infections in five months"
"India has been reporting a spike in cases - above the 60,000 mark - for three consecutive days, though Monday’s rise was still below September’s peak of more than 90,000 cases a day."
India had, for several months, been held up as some sort of Covid miracle, people were going round openly asking whether they had reached herd immunity, or had some mysterous antibody protection, The test series with England was in front of nearly full stadia. Things were going great. Until, bang, they were not.
As cases exploded, quite suddenly, in India over three weeks in early April people came home. It's as simple as that.
It would have been a bit harsh on British Indians, visiting family in India, to leave them stranded there, having to use their health system, in those circumstances wouldn't it? I guess the issue is quarantining when they returned to the UK
The government should have said back in March 2020 than anyone who leaves Britain does so at their own risk and is liable to being stranded without warning.
Instead it has preferred to put restrictions on the domestic economy and society to putting restrictions on international travel.
Yeah sounds sensible, but had there been footage of thousands of British Citizens suffering with Covid and relying on overwhelmed Indian health services, the outrage would have been through the roof.
Boris shouldn’t have said a specific date for reopening I guess, just said he’d review things every fortnight or so
The outrage from some would have been through the roof.
The response from the majority would have been "couldn't give a toss, they shouldn't have gone there".
Which of those two starkly different reactions would you have had, Richard?
Christ alive.....surely gravity has to come into play at some point.
I would expect a clear shift from Tory to ReformUK if Freedom Day is postponed by Boris next week as is likely.
I doubt it would change the Labour or LD vote much but if the Reform candidate gets 5,000 votes or so in Thursday's Chesham and Amersham by election as a protest vote at the extended restrictions that could cut the Tory vote drastically and see the LDs get close even if the Tories scrape a hold
I thought the Reform candidate isn't standing?
There is a ReformUK candidate in Chesham and Amersham on Thursday who is campaigning hard on an end all restrictions ticket and even has his own battlebus
He's lashing out. The interviewer called him out for being a liar, which he doesn't like, even though he is one. Probably OK although we can't be sure. The chaos that surrounds him is real enough even if he is false in other ways.
The quote at 12.21.34 is telling: "you've just got to do whatever it takes to protect life"
The covid zealots have won. The war is over. We will not learn to live with this, like we do flu (which kills people every winter). We will do whatever it takes to avoid loss of life.
Whatever it takes.
Whatever it takes is a biosecurity state with lockdown and social distancing and rules for ever.
Susan Michie was right.
And it won't just be Covid. It'll be all respiratory illnesses that they'll seek to permanently suppress. We'll never be rid of these evil masks.
Christ alive.....surely gravity has to come into play at some point.
I would expect a clear shift from Tory to ReformUK if Freedom Day is postponed by Boris next week as is likely.
I doubt it would change the Labour or LD vote much but if the Reform candidate gets 5,000 votes or so in Thursday's Chesham and Amersham by election as a protest vote at the extended restrictions that could cut the Tory vote drastically and see the LDs get close even if the Tories scrape a hold
I thought the Reform candidate isn't standing?
There is a ReformUK candidate in Chesham and Amersham on Thursday who is campaigning hard on an end all restrictions ticket and even has his own battlebus
A vote for Reform in C&A (or anywhere else for that matter) would do far more to lift lockdown restrictions than getting double jabbed.
Are you really suggesting that if no one got vaccinated but voted for Reform things would be in a better state?
Florida, which voted for Trump in both 2016 and 2020 and has a GOP governor, is now restriction free even though it has had fewer of its residents fully vaccinated as a percentage than we have
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
Why be anxious? Just please yourself and fuck the government.
Ni dieu ni maître.
How can you do that DA? You have a property abroad don't you?
I travelled to my place in Brittany via the back roads of the Netherlands and Belgium multiple times. However I am an EU citizen which makes it easier... I reckon I could get to Spain or Portugal with no problem.
The government haven't got a fucking clue what they are doing on restrictions or enforcement. Ignore them.
I am getting increasingly irate with DougSeal’s contention that it was just “U.K. citizens returning home”.
What the hell were they doing in India - aka PLAGUE CENTRAL - in the first place? Well, we know what; they were visiting relatives and getting a bit of sun. @Foxy called them “Gujarati snowbirds” or some such.
We watched it all happen in real time and many of us called it out at the time.
The reason they were in India was that, until quite late March, it was considered to have turned the Covid corner and was a safe place to go. It had apparently low Covid prevalence and lockdown restrictions were significantly fewer than the UK's. This was what the world's press was saying about India in February and March -
"Coronavirus: Is the epidemic finally coming to an end in India?"
"India suffers highest daily coronavirus infections in five months"
"India has been reporting a spike in cases - above the 60,000 mark - for three consecutive days, though Monday’s rise was still below September’s peak of more than 90,000 cases a day."
India had, for several months, been held up as some sort of Covid miracle, people were going round openly asking whether they had reached herd immunity, or had some mysterous antibody protection, The test series with England was in front of nearly full stadia. Things were going great. Until, bang, they were not.
As cases exploded, quite suddenly, in India over three weeks in early April people came home. It's as simple as that.
It would have been a bit harsh on British Indians, visiting family in India, to leave them stranded there, having to use their health system, in those circumstances wouldn't it? I guess the issue is quarantining when they returned to the UK
The government should have said back in March 2020 than anyone who leaves Britain does so at their own risk and is liable to being stranded without warning.
Instead it has preferred to put restrictions on the domestic economy and society to putting restrictions on international travel.
Yeah sounds sensible, but had there been footage of thousands of British Citizens suffering with Covid and relying on overwhelmed Indian health services, the outrage would have been through the roof.
Boris shouldn’t have said a specific date for reopening I guess, just said he’d review things every fortnight or so
The outrage from some would have been through the roof.
The response from the majority would have been "couldn't give a toss, they shouldn't have gone there".
Which of those two starkly different reactions would you have had, Richard?
Need you ask
I'll add I have as little concern for anti-vaxxers.
With choice comes responsibility for the consequences.
If it is genuinely a delay what is gained from waiting till Monday to announce it? Other than lessening the opportunities to soften everyone up by leaking that it's already been decided anyway?
Because the hacks who question him after these Downing St pressers are mostly even thicker than he is.
Boris: "More lockdown lite for a month, no guarantee that there won't be more after that, so sorry."
All 14 journos: "So, when will foreign holidays start up again?"
He's lashing out. The interviewer called him out for being a liar, which he doesn't like, even though he is one. Probably OK although we can't be sure. The chaos that surrounds him is real enough even if he is false in other ways.
The quote at 12.21.34 is telling: "you've just got to do whatever it takes to protect life"
The covid zealots have won. The war is over. We will not learn to live with this, like we do flu (which kills people every winter). We will do whatever it takes to avoid loss of life.
Whatever it takes.
Whatever it takes is a biosecurity state with lockdown and social distancing and rules for ever.
Susan Michie was right.
Or alternatively, Johnson saying something off the cuff that he thinks has a nice ring to it and counteracts what he (correctly) perceives to be the popular perception that for all his charms he can be a little cavalier about things sometimes.
“also UK minister David Frost in charge of EU relations went to Boris Johnson's meeting with Presidents Michel and von der Leyen wearing socks emblazoned with the Union Jack. "That was a bit weird," EU official said. "As if we didn't know he came from the UK"“
The EU reps literally turned up with EU flag face masks..
Christ alive.....surely gravity has to come into play at some point.
I would expect a clear shift from Tory to ReformUK if Freedom Day is postponed by Boris next week as is likely.
I doubt it would change the Labour or LD vote much but if the Reform candidate gets 5,000 votes or so in Thursday's Chesham and Amersham by election as a protest vote at the extended restrictions that could cut the Tory vote drastically and see the LDs get close even if the Tories scrape a hold
I thought the Reform candidate isn't standing?
There is a ReformUK candidate in Chesham and Amersham on Thursday who is campaigning hard on an end all restrictions ticket and even has his own battlebus
A vote for Reform in C&A (or anywhere else for that matter) would do far more to lift lockdown restrictions than getting double jabbed.
Are you really suggesting that if no one got vaccinated but voted for Reform things would be in a better state?
Florida, which voted for Trump in both 2016 and 2010 and has a GOP governor, is now restriction free even though it has had fewer of its residents vaccinated as a percentage than we have
Texas too.
I think Nevada opened up recently too.
Some states have outlawed mask mandates.
They are living life as normal. Free and unburdened by the ghastly doom porn and fear propaganda that permeates our country and makes life so horrible.
For the first time in my life I sort of have an idea of how an eastern European might have felt before the fall of the Berlin Wall. Looking at the West with a bitter envy. Free, rich and happy.
Martin Kulldorff @MartinKulldorff · 14h "You cannot just focus on one disease like COVID, you have to look at public health as a whole. That has been the huge failure of our pandemic response."
Christ alive.....surely gravity has to come into play at some point.
I would expect a clear shift from Tory to ReformUK if Freedom Day is postponed by Boris next week as is likely.
I doubt it would change the Labour or LD vote much but if the Reform candidate gets 5,000 votes or so in Thursday's Chesham and Amersham by election as a protest vote at the extended restrictions that could cut the Tory vote drastically and see the LDs get close even if the Tories scrape a hold
I thought the Reform candidate isn't standing?
There is a ReformUK candidate in Chesham and Amersham on Thursday who is campaigning hard on an end all restrictions ticket and even has his own battlebus
A vote for Reform in C&A (or anywhere else for that matter) would do far more to lift lockdown restrictions than getting double jabbed.
Are you really suggesting that if no one got vaccinated but voted for Reform things would be in a better state?
That's a false choice. Reform believe in protection of the vulnerable but freedom for the rest of us.
Texas and Florida exist. They are REAL. Europe is opening up with far lower vaccination rates. Why are they doing that?
Ah, so vaccinations are useful then? You were claiming that anyone voting for reform would do far more to get rid of lockdown than a vaccination. I think that's a load of bollocks.
If it is genuinely a delay what is gained from waiting till Monday to announce it? Other than lessening the opportunities to soften everyone up by leaking that it's already been decided anyway?
Because the hacks who question him after these Downing St pressers are mostly even thicker than he is.
Boris: "More lockdown lite for a month, no guarantee that there won't be more after that, so sorry."
All 14 journos: "So, when will foreign holidays start up again?"
Followed by what about some wanky arts festival....or how restrictions are racist, sexist, homophobic...
And not a single question on why 6 million doses of a vaccine aren't been used.
Christ alive.....surely gravity has to come into play at some point.
I would expect a clear shift from Tory to ReformUK if Freedom Day is postponed by Boris next week as is likely.
I doubt it would change the Labour or LD vote much but if the Reform candidate gets 5,000 votes or so in Thursday's Chesham and Amersham by election as a protest vote at the extended restrictions that could cut the Tory vote drastically and see the LDs get close even if the Tories scrape a hold
I thought the Reform candidate isn't standing?
There is a ReformUK candidate in Chesham and Amersham on Thursday who is campaigning hard on an end all restrictions ticket and even has his own battlebus
A vote for Reform in C&A (or anywhere else for that matter) would do far more to lift lockdown restrictions than getting double jabbed.
Are you really suggesting that if no one got vaccinated but voted for Reform things would be in a better state?
That's a false choice. Reform believe in protection of the vulnerable but freedom for the rest of us.
Texas and Florida exist. They are REAL. Europe is opening up with far lower vaccination rates. Why are they doing that?
Ah, so vaccinations are useful then? You were claiming that anyone voting for reform would do far more to get rid of lockdown than a vaccination. I think that's a load of bollocks.
Not necessarily, if Farage was PM now we would certainly be getting Freedom Day on June 21st, much as DeSantis has now ended all restrictions in Florida as the Governor there now.
Of course scientifically the more we get double vaccinated the better we are protected from Covid but Reform UK and the GOP in the US take the view that ultimately we should now be free to live our lives again without constraint
He's lashing out. The interviewer called him out for being a liar, which he doesn't like, even though he is one. Probably OK although we can't be sure. The chaos that surrounds him is real enough even if he is false in other ways.
The quote at 12.21.34 is telling: "you've just got to do whatever it takes to protect life"
The covid zealots have won. The war is over. We will not learn to live with this, like we do flu (which kills people every winter). We will do whatever it takes to avoid loss of life.
Whatever it takes.
Whatever it takes is a biosecurity state with lockdown and social distancing and rules for ever.
Susan Michie was right.
And it won't just be Covid. It'll be all respiratory illnesses that they'll seek to permanently suppress. We'll never be rid of these evil masks.
When the public do turn against the government for what they are doing, as they inevitably will one day, they will turn very hard.
He's lashing out. The interviewer called him out for being a liar, which he doesn't like, even though he is one. Probably OK although we can't be sure. The chaos that surrounds him is real enough even if he is false in other ways.
The quote at 12.21.34 is telling: "you've just got to do whatever it takes to protect life"
The covid zealots have won. The war is over. We will not learn to live with this, like we do flu (which kills people every winter). We will do whatever it takes to avoid loss of life.
Whatever it takes.
Whatever it takes is a biosecurity state with lockdown and social distancing and rules for ever.
Susan Michie was right.
And it won't just be Covid. It'll be all respiratory illnesses that they'll seek to permanently suppress. We'll never be rid of these evil masks.
When the public do turn against the government for what they are doing, as they inevitably will one day, they will turn very hard.
It'll be 'never again' territory.
I think Baker and the cleverer Tories know that.
I reckon the Government will probably get away with all of this. Their elderly support base loves lockdowns, and the Opposition are absolutely useless and show no sign of having either the willingness or ability to improve.
This could be Japan, you know. We could have one party rule for many decades.
If it is genuinely a delay what is gained from waiting till Monday to announce it? Other than lessening the opportunities to soften everyone up by leaking that it's already been decided anyway?
Because it is going to be excruciating for Boris "Indian border" Johnson, when he has to admit his fuck-up has fucked the country
Most Brits won't notice - yet, but he knows and those around him know.
He doesn't want this public embarrassment to happen when is hosting the G7 - and who can blame him, emotionally
Christ alive.....surely gravity has to come into play at some point.
I would expect a clear shift from Tory to ReformUK if Freedom Day is postponed by Boris next week as is likely.
I doubt it would change the Labour or LD vote much but if the Reform candidate gets 5,000 votes or so in Thursday's Chesham and Amersham by election as a protest vote at the extended restrictions that could cut the Tory vote drastically and see the LDs get close even if the Tories scrape a hold
I thought the Reform candidate isn't standing?
There is a ReformUK candidate in Chesham and Amersham on Thursday who is campaigning hard on an end all restrictions ticket and even has his own battlebus
A vote for Reform in C&A (or anywhere else for that matter) would do far more to lift lockdown restrictions than getting double jabbed.
Are you really suggesting that if no one got vaccinated but voted for Reform things would be in a better state?
Florida, which voted for Trump in both 2016 and 2010 and has a GOP governor, is now restriction free even though it has had fewer of its residents vaccinated as a percentage than we have
Texas too.
I think Nevada opened up recently too.
Some states have outlawed mask mandates.
They are living life as normal. Free and unburdened by the ghastly doom porn and fear propaganda that permeates our country and makes life so horrible.
For the first time in my life I sort of have an idea of how an eastern European might have felt before the fall of the Berlin Wall. Looking at the West with a bitter envy. Free, rich and happy.
It depends on the state, generally the Biden voting states like New York and California still have some capacity restrictions, especially indoors and masks mandates still in place, while the majority of Trump voting states are now completely restriction free
Macron to Biden: "Mr Pres I want to thank you…we have to deal w/this pandemic we have to face a lot of crisis, climate change–for all these issues what we need is coop–it’s great to have a US pres v.willing to coop–i think what you demonstrated is that leadership is partnership"
Christ alive.....surely gravity has to come into play at some point.
I would expect a clear shift from Tory to ReformUK if Freedom Day is postponed by Boris next week as is likely.
I doubt it would change the Labour or LD vote much but if the Reform candidate gets 5,000 votes or so in Thursday's Chesham and Amersham by election as a protest vote at the extended restrictions that could cut the Tory vote drastically and see the LDs get close even if the Tories scrape a hold
I thought the Reform candidate isn't standing?
There is a ReformUK candidate in Chesham and Amersham on Thursday who is campaigning hard on an end all restrictions ticket and even has his own battlebus
A vote for Reform in C&A (or anywhere else for that matter) would do far more to lift lockdown restrictions than getting double jabbed.
Are you really suggesting that if no one got vaccinated but voted for Reform things would be in a better state?
That's a false choice. Reform believe in protection of the vulnerable but freedom for the rest of us.
Texas and Florida exist. They are REAL. Europe is opening up with far lower vaccination rates. Why are they doing that?
Ah, so vaccinations are useful then? You were claiming that anyone voting for reform would do far more to get rid of lockdown than a vaccination. I think that's a load of bollocks.
Yes they are useful but our government is making our freedom conditional on turning Britain into a human pin cushion. Vaccinate or stay locked down is the deal.
Reform will guarantee our freedom come what may. No more lockdowns.
The tories 'rule nothing out'
Reform DO rule stuff out. They rule out taking away my freedom. That's why I support them and donate to them.
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Christ alive.....surely gravity has to come into play at some point.
I would expect a clear shift from Tory to ReformUK if Freedom Day is postponed by Boris next week as is likely.
I doubt it would change the Labour or LD vote much but if the Reform candidate gets 5,000 votes or so in Thursday's Chesham and Amersham by election as a protest vote at the extended restrictions that could cut the Tory vote drastically and see the LDs get close even if the Tories scrape a hold
I thought the Reform candidate isn't standing?
There is a ReformUK candidate in Chesham and Amersham on Thursday who is campaigning hard on an end all restrictions ticket and even has his own battlebus
A vote for Reform in C&A (or anywhere else for that matter) would do far more to lift lockdown restrictions than getting double jabbed.
Are you really suggesting that if no one got vaccinated but voted for Reform things would be in a better state?
Florida, which voted for Trump in both 2016 and 2010 and has a GOP governor, is now restriction free even though it has had fewer of its residents vaccinated as a percentage than we have
Texas too.
I think Nevada opened up recently too.
Some states have outlawed mask mandates.
They are living life as normal. Free and unburdened by the ghastly doom porn and fear propaganda that permeates our country and makes life so horrible.
For the first time in my life I sort of have an idea of how an eastern European might have felt before the fall of the Berlin Wall. Looking at the West with a bitter envy. Free, rich and happy.
Sorry for being blunt.
That's up there with children saying they know how victims of a famine feel, because they only have two chocolate biscuits.
Martin Kulldorff @MartinKulldorff · 14h "You cannot just focus on one disease like COVID, you have to look at public health as a whole. That has been the huge failure of our pandemic response."
Yes, we'll eventually start worrying about other disease. Like flu! Which can also, oh so conveniently, be suppressed with masks and social distancing. Which will continue forever.
Public health, being, of course, the sole responsibility and interest of government. The 'NHS with country attached' model moves another step closer.
I am getting increasingly irate with DougSeal’s contention that it was just “U.K. citizens returning home”.
What the hell were they doing in India - aka PLAGUE CENTRAL - in the first place? Well, we know what; they were visiting relatives and getting a bit of sun. @Foxy called them “Gujarati snowbirds” or some such.
We watched it all happen in real time and many of us called it out at the time.
The reason they were in India was that, until quite late March, it was considered to have turned the Covid corner and was a safe place to go. It had apparently low Covid prevalence and lockdown restrictions were significantly fewer than the UK's. This was what the world's press was saying about India in February and March -
"Coronavirus: Is the epidemic finally coming to an end in India?"
"India suffers highest daily coronavirus infections in five months"
"India has been reporting a spike in cases - above the 60,000 mark - for three consecutive days, though Monday’s rise was still below September’s peak of more than 90,000 cases a day."
India had, for several months, been held up as some sort of Covid miracle, people were going round openly asking whether they had reached herd immunity, or had some mysterous antibody protection, The test series with England was in front of nearly full stadia. Things were going great. Until, bang, they were not.
As cases exploded, quite suddenly, in India over three weeks in early April people came home. It's as simple as that.
It would have been a bit harsh on British Indians, visiting family in India, to leave them stranded there, having to use their health system, in those circumstances wouldn't it? I guess the issue is quarantining when they returned to the UK
The government should have said back in March 2020 than anyone who leaves Britain does so at their own risk and is liable to being stranded without warning.
Instead it has preferred to put restrictions on the domestic economy and society to putting restrictions on international travel.
Yeah sounds sensible, but had there been footage of thousands of British Citizens suffering with Covid and relying on overwhelmed Indian health services, the outrage would have been through the roof.
Boris shouldn’t have said a specific date for reopening I guess, just said he’d review things every fortnight or so
The outrage from some would have been through the roof.
The response from the majority would have been "couldn't give a toss, they shouldn't have gone there".
Which of those two starkly different reactions would you have had, Richard?
Need you ask
I'll add I have as little concern for anti-vaxxers.
With choice comes responsibility for the consequences.
I just thought I'd check. Never assume. I have noticed that you don't do a great deal of "walking a mile in another man's shoes." Metaphorically, I mean.
Christ alive.....surely gravity has to come into play at some point.
I would expect a clear shift from Tory to ReformUK if Freedom Day is postponed by Boris next week as is likely.
I doubt it would change the Labour or LD vote much but if the Reform candidate gets 5,000 votes or so in Thursday's Chesham and Amersham by election as a protest vote at the extended restrictions that could cut the Tory majority fall drastically and see the LDs get close even if the Tories scrape a hold
I don't see them getting 5,000 votes which would be more than 10%. They might get around 5% and save their deposit.
Christ alive.....surely gravity has to come into play at some point.
I would expect a clear shift from Tory to ReformUK if Freedom Day is postponed by Boris next week as is likely.
I doubt it would change the Labour or LD vote much but if the Reform candidate gets 5,000 votes or so in Thursday's Chesham and Amersham by election as a protest vote at the extended restrictions that could cut the Tory majority fall drastically and see the LDs get close even if the Tories scrape a hold
I don't see them getting 5,000 votes which would be more than 10%. They might get around 5% and save their deposit.
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
The conservatives gave people like Michie power over ordinary Brits, something no conservative government would have ever dreamt of doing in the past under any circumstances.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
Christ alive.....surely gravity has to come into play at some point.
I would expect a clear shift from Tory to ReformUK if Freedom Day is postponed by Boris next week as is likely.
I doubt it would change the Labour or LD vote much but if the Reform candidate gets 5,000 votes or so in Thursday's Chesham and Amersham by election as a protest vote at the extended restrictions that could cut the Tory majority fall drastically and see the LDs get close even if the Tories scrape a hold
I don't see them getting 5,000 votes which would be more than 10%. They might get around 5% and save their deposit.
52% of Tory voters want to end restrictions on weddings on 21st June, 35% of Tory voters want to end social distancing regulations and 23% of Tory voters even want to end all masks restrictions on June 21st. If most of that 23% of the 55% of the vote the Tories got in Chesham in 2019 went ReformUK then ReformUK could easily get 10% of the vote on Thursday
Christ alive.....surely gravity has to come into play at some point.
I would expect a clear shift from Tory to ReformUK if Freedom Day is postponed by Boris next week as is likely.
I doubt it would change the Labour or LD vote much but if the Reform candidate gets 5,000 votes or so in Thursday's Chesham and Amersham by election as a protest vote at the extended restrictions that could cut the Tory majority fall drastically and see the LDs get close even if the Tories scrape a hold
I don't see them getting 5,000 votes which would be more than 10%. They might get around 5% and save their deposit.
52% of Tory voters want to end restrictions on weddings on 21st June, 35% of Tory voters want to end social distancing regulations and 23% of Tory voters even want to end all masks restrictions on June 21st. If most of that 23% of the 55% of the vote the Tories got in Chesham in 2019 went ReformUK then ReformUK could easily get 10% of the vote on Thursday
Shows how useless James Bracey is, he said the batsman hit it.
If only Yorkshire had a decent international standard wicketkeeper.
We do, he just gets treated very badly by the selectors.
Did James Bracey win a raffle where the prize was to play for England?
I mean right now he's looking like a pound shop Richard Blakey.
He’s not had an easy time of it, certainly. I was a bit dubious when he was picked as keeper because although he’s capable - well, more capable than Buttler - it’s not really what he’s best at. But even leaving that aside, he’s clearly been affected by nerves. Unusually so. Generally, when he has a big moment to seize when batting for the Lions or in a set piece match, he’s raised his game. Doesn’t necessarily suggest the happiest of England squads at the moment.
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
The conservatives gave people like Michie power over ordinary Brits, something no conservative government would have ever dreamt of doing in the past under any circumstances.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
Susan Michie is a member of Independent Sage, the go to group for the media to attack and undermine the government
The conservatives did not give her a mouthpiece, that was our media
I know that an academic's political views should be distinguished from their political activism (as long as they themselves attempt to do so) but you do wonder about the credibility of a communist whose field is developing techniques to alter/control human behaviour.
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
The conservatives gave people like Michie power over ordinary Brits, something no conservative government would have ever dreamt of doing in the past under any circumstances.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
Susan Michie is a member of Independent Sage, the go to group for the media to attack and undermine the government
The conservatives did not give her a mouthpiece, that was our media
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
The conservatives gave people like Michie power over ordinary Brits, something no conservative government would have ever dreamt of doing in the past under any circumstances.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
Susan Michie is a member of Independent Sage, the go to group for the media to attack and undermine the government
The conservatives did not give her a mouthpiece, that was our media
I know that an academic's political views should be distinguished from their political activism (as long as they themselves attempt to do so) but you do wonder about the credibility of a communist whose field is developing techniques to alter/control human behaviour.
Do you? I’m pleased to hear you’re wondering. I came to the conclusion some time back that she had no credibility at all.
I am getting increasingly irate with DougSeal’s contention that it was just “U.K. citizens returning home”.
What the hell were they doing in India - aka PLAGUE CENTRAL - in the first place? Well, we know what; they were visiting relatives and getting a bit of sun. @Foxy called them “Gujarati snowbirds” or some such.
We watched it all happen in real time and many of us called it out at the time.
The reason they were in India was that, until quite late March, it was considered to have turned the Covid corner and was a safe place to go. It had apparently low Covid prevalence and lockdown restrictions were significantly fewer than the UK's. This was what the world's press was saying about India in February and March -
"Coronavirus: Is the epidemic finally coming to an end in India?"
"India suffers highest daily coronavirus infections in five months"
"India has been reporting a spike in cases - above the 60,000 mark - for three consecutive days, though Monday’s rise was still below September’s peak of more than 90,000 cases a day."
India had, for several months, been held up as some sort of Covid miracle, people were going round openly asking whether they had reached herd immunity, or had some mysterous antibody protection, The test series with England was in front of nearly full stadia. Things were going great. Until, bang, they were not.
As cases exploded, quite suddenly, in India over three weeks in early April people came home. It's as simple as that.
It would have been a bit harsh on British Indians, visiting family in India, to leave them stranded there, having to use their health system, in those circumstances wouldn't it? I guess the issue is quarantining when they returned to the UK
The government should have said back in March 2020 than anyone who leaves Britain does so at their own risk and is liable to being stranded without warning.
Instead it has preferred to put restrictions on the domestic economy and society to putting restrictions on international travel.
Yeah sounds sensible, but had there been footage of thousands of British Citizens suffering with Covid and relying on overwhelmed Indian health services, the outrage would have been through the roof.
Boris shouldn’t have said a specific date for reopening I guess, just said he’d review things every fortnight or so
The outrage from some would have been through the roof.
The response from the majority would have been "couldn't give a toss, they shouldn't have gone there".
Which of those two starkly different reactions would you have had, Richard?
Need you ask
I'll add I have as little concern for anti-vaxxers.
With choice comes responsibility for the consequences.
I just thought I'd check. Never assume. I have noticed that you don't do a great deal of "walking a mile in another man's shoes." Metaphorically, I mean.
Walking a mile in another man's shoes ?
It's leads to allowing people to do what they want and then make excuses for them if it causes problems.
I prefer a responsible rationality and accepting the consequences of your own choices.
Christ alive.....surely gravity has to come into play at some point.
I would expect a clear shift from Tory to ReformUK if Freedom Day is postponed by Boris next week as is likely.
I doubt it would change the Labour or LD vote much but if the Reform candidate gets 5,000 votes or so in Thursday's Chesham and Amersham by election as a protest vote at the extended restrictions that could cut the Tory majority fall drastically and see the LDs get close even if the Tories scrape a hold
I don't see them getting 5,000 votes which would be more than 10%. They might get around 5% and save their deposit.
52% of Tory voters want to end restrictions on weddings on 21st June, 35% of Tory voters want to end social distancing regulations and 23% of Tory voters even want to end all masks restrictions on June 21st. If most of that 23% of the 55% of the vote the Tories got in Chesham in 2019 went ReformUK then ReformUK could easily get 10% of the vote on Thursday
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
The conservatives gave people like Michie power over ordinary Brits, something no conservative government would have ever dreamt of doing in the past under any circumstances.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
Susan Michie is a member of Independent Sage, the go to group for the media to attack and undermine the government
The conservatives did not give her a mouthpiece, that was our media
Michie should have been removed from SAGE ages ago...she constantly refuses to take any collective responsibility, it is pretty clear she is the source of a load of leaks and also sits on the deliberately misleading Independent SAGE.
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
The conservatives gave people like Michie power over ordinary Brits, something no conservative government would have ever dreamt of doing in the past under any circumstances.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
Susan Michie is a member of Independent Sage, the go to group for the media to attack and undermine the government
The conservatives did not give her a mouthpiece, that was our media
Sorry but Michie is a member of SAGE not independent SAGE.
Some SAGE scientists have already apologised for using unethical psychological techniques to intimidate Britons in the pandemic after being exposed in A State of Fear.
Fraser Nelson reported that some SAGE scientists who demurred from main recommendations were intimidated by others.
If this ends I want a full investigation into how and why this happened, how long it went on and what Michie's role was and remains.
As I understand it certain propaganda techniques are a breach of international human rights laws and I would like to see the guilty prosecuted in court, and those conservative politicians who gave these people a free hand exposed.
Christ alive.....surely gravity has to come into play at some point.
I would expect a clear shift from Tory to ReformUK if Freedom Day is postponed by Boris next week as is likely.
I doubt it would change the Labour or LD vote much but if the Reform candidate gets 5,000 votes or so in Thursday's Chesham and Amersham by election as a protest vote at the extended restrictions that could cut the Tory majority fall drastically and see the LDs get close even if the Tories scrape a hold
I don't see them getting 5,000 votes which would be more than 10%. They might get around 5% and save their deposit.
52% of Tory voters want to end restrictions on weddings on 21st June, 35% of Tory voters want to end social distancing regulations and 23% of Tory voters even want to end all masks restrictions on June 21st. If most of that 23% of the 55% of the vote the Tories got in Chesham in 2019 went ReformUK then ReformUK could easily get 10% of the vote on Thursday
He's lashing out. The interviewer called him out for being a liar, which he doesn't like, even though he is one. Probably OK although we can't be sure. The chaos that surrounds him is real enough even if he is false in other ways.
The quote at 12.21.34 is telling: "you've just got to do whatever it takes to protect life"
The covid zealots have won. The war is over. We will not learn to live with this, like we do flu (which kills people every winter). We will do whatever it takes to avoid loss of life.
Whatever it takes.
Whatever it takes is a biosecurity state with lockdown and social distancing and rules for ever.
Susan Michie was right.
And it won't just be Covid. It'll be all respiratory illnesses that they'll seek to permanently suppress. We'll never be rid of these evil masks.
When the public do turn against the government for what they are doing, as they inevitably will one day, they will turn very hard.
It'll be 'never again' territory.
I think Baker and the cleverer Tories know that.
I reckon the Government will probably get away with all of this. Their elderly support base loves lockdowns, and the Opposition are absolutely useless and show no sign of having either the willingness or ability to improve.
This could be Japan, you know. We could have one party rule for many decades.
Based on here, the vitriol for delaying step 4 of the roadmap is mainly coming from right wing Leavers. It appears they have discovered that Boris Johnson is incompetent and untrustworthy, as is the government he leads. It remains to be seen how such people will react electorally. Perhaps they will abstain. Perhaps they will defect to Labour if Starmer can be replaced as leader by a Peter Bone type. Or perhaps they will still vote Tory.
It's the first poll for ages which LEGA hasn't led. Their collapse in support from the mid-30s has been incredible. The Social Democrats have benefitted as have FdL (Brothers of Italy), the latest right-wing political incarnation which actually has roots back in the Italian Social Movement of the 1970s.
Signs the Saxony-Anhalt election effect is already fading for the CDU and solid numbers again for the FDP who looks set to make big gains in the Bundestag along with the Greens.
Lest we forget, the Italians have gotten rid of the "bonus" seats thing, so those percentage shares will be pretty much the seat shares in the lower house. In the upper house, it'll be a but more concentrated, but not much.
Basically, to form a government you will need a minimum of either FdI + LEGA + FI , or PD + M5S + a bunch of small parties and a quite bit of luck in the upper house.
If that is the result, it's hard to see a functioning Italian government emerging from the election.
And now this. The dominant narrative will now be: "he screwed up, and we ended up with an extra four weeks of restrictions and a third wave. back in lockdown for eight months."
Fixed it for you.
I mean come on, we know it's coming. The catastrophist wing of the scientist lobby are going to completely take over now.
You've been trumpeting disaster since week bloody one. The vaccines won't work. We'll be locked down forever. We'll all get reinfected. There's no way out.
All you ever bloody do is insist it's going to be an utter disaster, ignore every single step back or better off, and insist that everything will be horrible.
Of course we're not going to be sodding locked down for eight months. We're not locked down now. We've got restrictions, about equivalent to Tier One from last year, and the big discussion is whether they should be retained for four weeks.
We're not hurriedly closing the schools, closing all restaurants and pubs, banning travel outside the house.
I'm starting to think you actually get disappointed when disaster doesn't happen.
That’s unfair
For a long time Black Rook has been full of sunny optimism (too much, perhaps)
I suspect he/she is a tad bipolar and is now on the downslope of a mood shift. Have a little sympathy. We are all stressed by this ever receding day of freedom. Black Rook also has a point, when members of official SAGE talk about ‘keeping masks and social distancing forever’ it is only right to be alarmed about the future. Some top scientists really do want perpetual controls on society
You're right. I did catch myself and apologise; I was out of order to snap at Black_Rook.
Everyone is anxious. And bloody angry at the government for landing us in this
We must all be nice to each other, for a bit, if we can. Or we can try, anyway
You're going to be nice to me for a change then, are you?
I don't think Susan Michie is a scientist but a behavioural psychologist, probably also one of the people Private Eye called 'the Marxist-Leninist aristocracy'.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
The conservatives gave people like Michie power over ordinary Brits, something no conservative government would have ever dreamt of doing in the past under any circumstances.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
Susan Michie is a member of Independent Sage, the go to group for the media to attack and undermine the government
The conservatives did not give her a mouthpiece, that was our media
Sorry but Michie is a member of SAGE not independent SAGE.
My wife and I had a long chat this morning and we're both of the same mind, if the UK falls into permanent measures we're going to leave the country even if we have to sell the house we've just bought and leave people behind. The life that the government and scientists have planned for us isn't real life, it's a facsimile of it.
We probably would do a variation - spend several months a year somewhere else and come back to the UK for various things but I share your views.
But some good news the other way. With Trump gone, me and my wife are back on with our US roadtrip.
Unless one of you is an American citizen, you'll need to go via Canada or Mexico (for 14 days), due to the restrictions on non-US citizens travelling to the US.
Comments
I typed 'our's' instead of 'ours', I couldn't even blame autocorrect as I typed it on a laptop.
https://twitter.com/Alex4CandA/status/1402588085800648709?s=20
https://twitter.com/Alex4CandA/status/1403042652745052163?s=20
There is no longer any room for dispute
We await the final proof, or otherwise, re the lab leak itself.
This is quite a moment, it will go unnoticed for a while
We all hope that neither of those things will happen, but you'd be foolish to dismiss the prospect out of hand. Weak, frightened, vacillating PM + a lot of catastrophist public health radicals = disaster potential.
Smug, self-satisfied complacent lethargy is a defining feature of the UK establishment.
The covid zealots have won. The war is over. We will not learn to live with this, like we do flu (which kills people every winter). We will do whatever it takes to avoid loss of life.
Whatever it takes.
Whatever it takes is a biosecurity state with lockdown and social distancing and rules for ever.
Susan Michie was right.
The response from the majority would have been "couldn't give a toss, they shouldn't have gone there".
Switzerland are awesome.
Did James Bracey win a raffle where the prize was to play for England?
I mean right now he's looking like a pound shop Richard Blakey.
Texas and Florida exist. They are REAL. Europe is opening up with far lower vaccination rates. Why are they doing that?
The government haven't got a fucking clue what they are doing on restrictions or enforcement. Ignore them.
I'll add I have as little concern for anti-vaxxers.
With choice comes responsibility for the consequences.
Hopefully today, so I can watch England v. Croatia without distraction.
Boris: "More lockdown lite for a month, no guarantee that there won't be more after that, so sorry."
All 14 journos: "So, when will foreign holidays start up again?"
The EU reps literally turned up with EU flag face masks..
I think Nevada opened up recently too.
Some states have outlawed mask mandates.
They are living life as normal. Free and unburdened by the ghastly doom porn and fear propaganda that permeates our country and makes life so horrible.
For the first time in my life I sort of have an idea of how an eastern European might have felt before the fall of the Berlin Wall. Looking at the West with a bitter envy. Free, rich and happy.
Well, it's a thought.
@MartinKulldorff
·
14h
"You cannot just focus on one disease like COVID, you have to look at public health as a whole. That has been the huge failure of our pandemic response."
- my interview with with
@DanProft
&
@AmyJacobson
on
@MorningAnswer
https://twitter.com/MartinKulldorff/status/1403498994823839745
And not a single question on why 6 million doses of a vaccine aren't been used.
Of course scientifically the more we get double vaccinated the better we are protected from Covid but Reform UK and the GOP in the US take the view that ultimately we should now be free to live our lives again without constraint
It'll be 'never again' territory.
I think Baker and the cleverer Tories know that.
Hopefully this summer the current England squad channel the spirit of Butcher.
This could be Japan, you know. We could have one party rule for many decades.
Most Brits won't notice - yet, but he knows and those around him know.
He doesn't want this public embarrassment to happen when is hosting the G7 - and who can blame him, emotionally
https://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-2020/coronavirus-state-restrictions.html
Macron to Biden: "Mr Pres I want to thank you…we have to deal w/this pandemic we have to face a lot of crisis, climate change–for all these issues what we need is coop–it’s great to have a US pres v.willing to coop–i think what you demonstrated is that leadership is partnership"
https://twitter.com/RymMomtaz/status/1403718655431561218?s=20
Reform will guarantee our freedom come what may. No more lockdowns.
The tories 'rule nothing out'
Reform DO rule stuff out. They rule out taking away my freedom. That's why I support them and donate to them.
But the jokes are all mine.
Vote Conservative, get Communist?
That's up there with children saying they know how victims of a famine feel, because they only have two chocolate biscuits.
Public health, being, of course, the sole responsibility and interest of government. The 'NHS with country attached' model moves another step closer.
Although he has had a good season
I guess we will find out how much of that was down to playing alongside Dias
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/tennis/54574377
Wales equalise
They should not have worn a white kit against the Welsh.
The Welsh spend all year long chasing white things.
It is one of the things I hope to hold them responsible for one day.
The modern 'conservative' party is the biggest exercise in political charlatanism in my life time bar none. They put criminals who misrepresent themselves to shame.
A junior minister astonishingly claimed he was a 'libertarian conservative' the other day on Talk radio with a straight face. Right up there with some burglar pretending to be the gas man to get into some old person's home.
https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/xoc1ldh9zg/TheTimes_Reopening_210603.pdf
The conservatives did not give her a mouthpiece, that was our media
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies-sage-coronavirus-covid-19-response-membership/list-of-participants-of-sage-and-related-sub-groups
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies-sage-coronavirus-covid-19-response-membership/list-of-participants-of-sage-and-related-sub-groups#scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies-sage
Edit - Feck VAR.
It's leads to allowing people to do what they want and then make excuses for them if it causes problems.
I prefer a responsible rationality and accepting the consequences of your own choices.
I won’t get my coat, but I will get my bike.
Hurrah for the BBC for putting nearly all of their matches in UHD.
Some SAGE scientists have already apologised for using unethical psychological techniques to intimidate Britons in the pandemic after being exposed in A State of Fear.
Fraser Nelson reported that some SAGE scientists who demurred from main recommendations were intimidated by others.
If this ends I want a full investigation into how and why this happened, how long it went on and what Michie's role was and remains.
As I understand it certain propaganda techniques are a breach of international human rights laws and I would like to see the guilty prosecuted in court, and those conservative politicians who gave these people a free hand exposed.
Basically, to form a government you will need a minimum of either FdI + LEGA + FI , or PD + M5S + a bunch of small parties and a quite bit of luck in the upper house.
If that is the result, it's hard to see a functioning Italian government emerging from the election.
https://www.independentsage.org/who-are-independent-sage/
As for the rest of your post, link please, given your track record.
Merely because our scientists have been abject doesn’t mean anyone’s going to trust an anti-vaxxer.
After that performance, I think wales are probably a technical lay @ ~200/1