If that's Labour it's their first mis-step in this - it will allow Tories to go on the attack about "harassing 4 year olds and their mothers" - especially since Cummings is reportedly in Downing St.
Live by the sword. Anyway, Cummings brought his child into it when he told his staff in Cabinet to defend him with the kid.
That Sir is rubbish!
Yeah, but that's politics now. One side had 10 years of using both the velvet glove and the iron fist, like Vote Leave and Leave.EU, so if the other side is fighting back with two hands as well, we can't really be surprised.
I have no problem with your desire to take down Cummings. His wife and child are not acceptable collateral damage.
Live by the sword..............he reaps what he sows, in his immortal words who cares what he thinks
I don't care what he thinks Malcolm, but his child did not ask to have such a hideous oik for a father so the child should be left out of all the nastiness.
I agree Pete, but it is Cummings fault , as I said he is reaping what he sows to the detriment of his family.
It is interesting that those on here most vociferous in their defence of Cummings' family (myself excluded) were quite happy to beat up on Mrs Starmer Senior and her donkeys.
As I am certainly not defending Cummings, may I ask what the story is about Mrs Starmer and her donkeys? That one completely passed me by.
It was a Daily Mail front page article on Kier Starmer a week or two ago: Headline something like "Starmer owns land worth up to £10milllion".
Actual story is: Starmer owns green belt land next to his mother’s house that he bought for her donkey sanctuary. It’s worth maybe £20k tops.
Build a bunch of houses on it & you could probably sell them all for £10million total but a) that requires you to get planning permission on the green belt & b) to pay to build the houses in the first place. "Up to" was doing an awful lot of work in that headline.
(Actual £ figures may vary, but general principle is accurate to my recollection.)
The fact his mother owns a donkey sanctuary is the first thing I've heard about him that improves my view of him.
If that's Labour it's their first mis-step in this - it will allow Tories to go on the attack about "harassing 4 year olds and their mothers" - especially since Cummings is reportedly in Downing St.
Live by the sword. Anyway, Cummings brought his child into it when he told his staff in Cabinet to defend him with the kid.
That Sir is rubbish!
Yeah, but that's politics now. One side had 10 years of using both the velvet glove and the iron fist, like Vote Leave and Leave.EU, so if the other side is fighting back with two hands as well, we can't really be surprised.
I have no problem with your desire to take down Cummings. His wife and child are not acceptable collateral damage.
Live by the sword..............he reaps what he sows, in his immortal words who cares what he thinks
I don't care what he thinks Malcolm, but his child did not ask to have such a hideous oik for a father so the child should be left out of all the nastiness.
I agree Pete, but it is Cummings fault , as I said he is reaping what he sows to the detriment of his family.
It is interesting that those on here most vociferous in their defence of Cummings' family (myself excluded) were quite happy to beat up on Mrs Starmer Senior and her donkeys.
As I am certainly not defending Cummings, may I ask what the story is about Mrs Starmer and her donkeys? That one completely passed me by.
The Mail attacked Starmer for owning a field which he'd bought for his ill Mother to keep her donkeys in.
Cheers. Yep that one genuinely passed me by completely. But then it is the Mail so should be treated with contempt anyway. I know I shouldn't ask but why is buying your Mum a field in any way wrong? A slightly strange Mother's Day pressie perhaps but hardly the weirdest I have ever heard of.
Note that is continuity IDS Tweeting out Labour propaganda...
What's the betting that would were pumping out condemnatory tweets about Tim Montgomerie a couple of months ago over his Hungarian associations?
That sentence makes no sense at all, are you okay?
I'm pointing out that Tim Montgomerie was in recent months the face of evil to anti-Tories for his praise of Viktor Orban, but now his opinions are treated as gospel because it's politically convenient for them. Ergo, they are hypocrites.
Do I really have to spell out such simple things for you?
Yes. What does your operative phrase “that would were pumping” actually mean? When I was a kid my mum fed me alphabet soup and my resulting shit made more sense than that.
'Would' in that sentence was a typo for 'you'. How did you get on in school without being able to deduce things like that?
Obvious typos are not a completely different word made up of a twice the number of letters - so the most likely explanation, based on that and everything else you post, was that you were having some sort of aneurism. Hence my concern.
As for school, unexceptional. An unconditional offer from Oxford, a degree in history, a conversion course, an LL.M and a partnership in a City Law Firm. Mere bagatelle I accept.
You've never started a sentence then reworked its construction but neglected to alter a single word? OK.
You're not the only person to have been at Oxford, by the way.
You’re joking! Thinking about it, though, there were indeed an awful lot of other people round about my age hanging about there at the time...including my future wife, so you might just be right about that! Thank you! Your profound insight continues to impress.
You really can't take it when people don't instantly bend to your will, can you? Please don't tell me it was one of the crap colleges
Thanks but I am not interested in you bending to my will. I’m not into S&M - but I admire the honesty about your own proclivities.
Trinity. But for the virus I would have been at a retirement dinner on March 14 for my history tutor there. Jacob Rees-Mogg who did the same course at the same college four years earlier, was also on the guest list. So, based on the calibre of JRM alone, a crap college.
Gordouuuli! He's got a face like a ham, 'cos Bobby Johnson says so, and he should know...
Are you okay?
If you were at Trinity, you should have heard those lines coming over the wall from time to time (or from in front of your gates, on occasion).
We didn’t actually listen to the shite coming over the wall from Balliol. Little point to be honest. Indeed the Harry Lime society was so obsessed with their juvenile little pranks we felt rather sorry for them.
If that's Labour it's their first mis-step in this - it will allow Tories to go on the attack about "harassing 4 year olds and their mothers" - especially since Cummings is reportedly in Downing St.
Live by the sword. Anyway, Cummings brought his child into it when he told his staff in Cabinet to defend him with the kid.
That Sir is rubbish!
Yeah, but that's politics now. One side had 10 years of using both the velvet glove and the iron fist, like Vote Leave and Leave.EU, so if the other side is fighting back with two hands as well, we can't really be surprised.
I have no problem with your desire to take down Cummings. His wife and child are not acceptable collateral damage.
Live by the sword..............he reaps what he sows, in his immortal words who cares what he thinks
I don't care what he thinks Malcolm, but his child did not ask to have such a hideous oik for a father so the child should be left out of all the nastiness.
I agree Pete, but it is Cummings fault , as I said he is reaping what he sows to the detriment of his family.
It is interesting that those on here most vociferous in their defence of Cummings' family (myself excluded) were quite happy to beat up on Mrs Starmer Senior and her donkeys.
As I am certainly not defending Cummings, may I ask what the story is about Mrs Starmer and her donkeys? That one completely passed me by.
It was a Daily Mail front page article on Kier Starmer a week or two ago: Headline something like "Starmer owns land worth up to £10milllion".
Actual story is: Starmer owns green belt land next to his mother’s house that he bought for her donkey sanctuary. It’s worth maybe £20k tops.
Build a bunch of houses on it & you could probably sell them all for £10million total but a) that requires you to get planning permission on the green belt & b) to pay to build the houses in the first place. "Up to" was doing an awful lot of work in that headline.
(Actual £ figures may vary, but general principle is accurate to my recollection.)
The fact his mother owns a donkey sanctuary is the first thing I've heard about him that improves my view of him.
The piteous cries for 'kindness and tolerance' for a 'man and his family for decisions taken at a time of great stress and worry' are a sight to behold. Cumming's whole career as evidenced by his recent public performances has been based on him being a cnut, and he gave every sign of revelling in it when he was top dog.
If that's Labour it's their first mis-step in this - it will allow Tories to go on the attack about "harassing 4 year olds and their mothers" - especially since Cummings is reportedly in Downing St.
Live by the sword. Anyway, Cummings brought his child into it when he told his staff in Cabinet to defend him with the kid.
That Sir is rubbish!
Yeah, but that's politics now. One side had 10 years of using both the velvet glove and the iron fist, like Vote Leave and Leave.EU, so if the other side is fighting back with two hands as well, we can't really be surprised.
I have no problem with your desire to take down Cummings. His wife and child are not acceptable collateral damage.
Live by the sword..............he reaps what he sows, in his immortal words who cares what he thinks
I don't care what he thinks Malcolm, but his child did not ask to have such a hideous oik for a father so the child should be left out of all the nastiness.
I agree Pete, but it is Cummings fault , as I said he is reaping what he sows to the detriment of his family.
It is interesting that those on here most vociferous in their defence of Cummings' family (myself excluded) were quite happy to beat up on Mrs Starmer Senior and her donkeys.
As I am certainly not defending Cummings, may I ask what the story is about Mrs Starmer and her donkeys? That one completely passed me by.
The Mail attacked Starmer for owning a field which he'd bought for his ill Mother to keep her donkeys in.
Cheers. Yep that one genuinely passed me by completely. But then it is the Mail so should be treated with contempt anyway. I know I shouldn't ask but why is buying your Mum a field in any way wrong? A slightly strange Mother's Day pressie perhaps but hardly the weirdest I have ever heard of.
The value of the land had apparently increased such that, if it was a housing estate rather than a field, the houses on it could be worth up to £10m (although, to be clear, it isn't a housing estate, there's no planning permission on it, and it's actually used to keep donkeys).
Still, pretty earth-shattering as a scandal, I am sure you'll agree.
If that's Labour it's their first mis-step in this - it will allow Tories to go on the attack about "harassing 4 year olds and their mothers" - especially since Cummings is reportedly in Downing St.
Live by the sword. Anyway, Cummings brought his child into it when he told his staff in Cabinet to defend him with the kid.
That Sir is rubbish!
Yeah, but that's politics now. One side had 10 years of using both the velvet glove and the iron fist, like Vote Leave and Leave.EU, so if the other side is fighting back with two hands as well, we can't really be surprised.
I have no problem with your desire to take down Cummings. His wife and child are not acceptable collateral damage.
Live by the sword..............he reaps what he sows, in his immortal words who cares what he thinks
I don't care what he thinks Malcolm, but his child did not ask to have such a hideous oik for a father so the child should be left out of all the nastiness.
I agree Pete, but it is Cummings fault , as I said he is reaping what he sows to the detriment of his family.
It is interesting that those on here most vociferous in their defence of Cummings' family (myself excluded) were quite happy to beat up on Mrs Starmer Senior and her donkeys.
As I am certainly not defending Cummings, may I ask what the story is about Mrs Starmer and her donkeys? That one completely passed me by.
It was a Daily Mail front page article on Kier Starmer a week or two ago: Headline something like "Starmer owns land worth up to £10milllion".
Actual story is: Starmer owns green belt land next to his mother’s house that he bought for her donkey sanctuary. It’s worth maybe £20k tops.
Build a bunch of houses on it & you could probably sell them all for £10million total but a) that requires you to get planning permission on the green belt & b) to pay to build the houses in the first place. "Up to" was doing an awful lot of work in that headline.
(Actual £ figures may vary, but general principle is accurate to my recollection.)
The fact his mother owns a donkey sanctuary is the first thing I've heard about him that improves my view of him.
Owned. I believe she is no longer with us
Sad. Hope the donkeys are still being looked after.
Note that is continuity IDS Tweeting out Labour propaganda...
What's the betting that would were pumping out condemnatory tweets about Tim Montgomerie a couple of months ago over his Hungarian associations?
That sentence makes no sense at all, are you okay?
I'm pointing out that Tim Montgomerie was in recent months the face of evil to anti-Tories for his praise of Viktor Orban, but now his opinions are treated as gospel because it's politically convenient for them. Ergo, they are hypocrites.
Do I really have to spell out such simple things for you?
Yes. What does your operative phrase “that would were pumping” actually mean? When I was a kid my mum fed me alphabet soup and my resulting shit made more sense than that.
'Would' in that sentence was a typo for 'you'. How did you get on in school without being able to deduce things like that?
Obvious typos are not a completely different word made up of a twice the number of letters - so the most likely explanation, based on that and everything else you post, was that you were having some sort of aneurism. Hence my concern.
As for school, unexceptional. An unconditional offer from Oxford, a degree in history, a conversion course, an LL.M and a partnership in a City Law Firm. Mere bagatelle I accept.
You've never started a sentence then reworked its construction but neglected to alter a single word? OK.
You're not the only person to have been at Oxford, by the way.
You’re joking! Thinking about it, though, there were indeed an awful lot of other people round about my age hanging about there at the time...including my future wife, so you might just be right about that! Thank you! Your profound insight continues to impress.
You really can't take it when people don't instantly bend to your will, can you? Please don't tell me it was one of the crap colleges
Thanks but I am not interested in you bending to my will. I’m not into S&M - but I admire the honesty about your own proclivities.
Trinity. But for the virus I would have been at a retirement dinner on March 14 for my history tutor there. Jacob Rees-Mogg who did the same course at the same college four years earlier, was also on the guest list. So, based on the calibre of JRM alone, a crap college.
Gordouuuli! He's got a face like a ham, 'cos Bobby Johnson says so, and he should know...
Are you okay?
If you were at Trinity, you should have heard those lines coming over the wall from time to time (or from in front of your gates, on occasion).
We didn’t actually listen to the shite coming over the wall from Balliol. Little point to be honest. Indeed the Harry Lime society was so obsessed with their juvenile little pranks we felt rather sorry for them.
I've not been following the site today. Am I reading right now that the story is that Cummings has made multiple trips?
If so he should go.
I was willing yesterday to give the benefit of the doubt if it was for the welfare of a three year old. As a father of a three year old myself their safety must always come first.
However multiple trips without reasonable reasons is simply inexcusable if true.
I hope that's clear enough.
That's fine. But we do need to hear a heartfelt "sorry" from you. You lost some dignity with all the nonsense yesterday. An apology would go some way to restoring it.
Not at all.
I was responding to the facts at the time. If the facts are that a father was looking after a three year old then I will never object to that. Children come before politics.
If the facts are that there have been multiple trips then that wasn't something I knew yesterday and doesn't change what I said one iota.
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?
In a frenzy of partisanship you placed your brain in a jar and swallowed whole the risible transformation of, 'He chose to self-isolate in more amenable surroundings' into, 'Fearing for welfare of small child, he acted as any father would' - and thus lost dignity.
It was sad to see.
Not at all. I never said that. I said that if he's done what he's done thinking it's in the best interests of his child then that's reasonable. I also said (as I've said all along) that every adult, every parent, must think for themselves.
I never said all father's would do the same thing that's ludicrous and doesn't match my philosophy of believing everyone is an individual who can act differently so why would I say that? That would be completely out of character. I don't believe in one size fits all solutions.
You swallowed it, is the point. And in doing so looked less the free-thinking, socially liberal, libertarian with a hankering for England My England, and rather more the slavishly partisan supporter of this Boris Johnson Conservative Government.
Gives me no pleasure to say this, Philip, but I'm afraid it's true. I know you won't apologize on here but I do hope you reflect.
Note that is continuity IDS Tweeting out Labour propaganda...
What's the betting that would were pumping out condemnatory tweets about Tim Montgomerie a couple of months ago over his Hungarian associations?
That sentence makes no sense at all, are you okay?
I'm pointing out that Tim Montgomerie was in recent months the face of evil to anti-Tories for his praise of Viktor Orban, but now his opinions are treated as gospel because it's politically convenient for them. Ergo, they are hypocrites.
Do I really have to spell out such simple things for you?
Yes. What does your operative phrase “that would were pumping” actually mean? When I was a kid my mum fed me alphabet soup and my resulting shit made more sense than that.
'Would' in that sentence was a typo for 'you'. How did you get on in school without being able to deduce things like that?
Obvious typos are not a completely different word made up of a twice the number of letters - so the most likely explanation, based on that and everything else you post, was that you were having some sort of aneurism. Hence my concern.
As for school, unexceptional. An unconditional offer from Oxford, a degree in history, a conversion course, an LL.M and a partnership in a City Law Firm. Mere bagatelle I accept.
You've never started a sentence then reworked its construction but neglected to alter a single word? OK.
You're not the only person to have been at Oxford, by the way.
You’re joking! Thinking about it, though, there were indeed an awful lot of other people round about my age hanging about there at the time...including my future wife, so you might just be right about that! Thank you! Your profound insight continues to impress.
You really can't take it when people don't instantly bend to your will, can you? Please don't tell me it was one of the crap colleges
Thanks but I am not interested in you bending to my will. I’m not into S&M - but I admire the honesty about your own proclivities.
Trinity. But for the virus I would have been at a retirement dinner on March 14 for my history tutor there. Jacob Rees-Mogg who did the same course at the same college four years earlier, was also on the guest list. So, based on the calibre of JRM alone, a crap college.
Gordouuuli! He's got a face like a ham, 'cos Bobby Johnson says so, and he should know...
The piteous cries for 'kindness and tolerance' for a 'man and his family for decisions taken at a time of great stress and worry' are a sight to behold. Cumming's whole career as evidenced by his recent public performances has been based on him being a cnut, and he gave every sign of revelling in it when he was top dog.
Is breaking the law to point out someone has broken the law, a defence under the law?
What law has that person broken?
Well clearly he is not there to take exercise. And since he claims he was furloughed he clearly isn't there for employment purposes either.
Once again what actual law has been broken by the man standing there?
Cummings however definitely broke The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020 unless his parents are under 70 years old - For those hard of thinking they are not under 70 years old.
PB Tories calling out the hounding of Cummings is a noble thing to do, except they've never called out hounding of MPs on the other side.
Yes we have.
Also, Cummings is a civil servant, a member of staff not an elected politician.
When?
Personally, right back to Gordon Brown when he was PM, and Damien McBride was his media henchman who became the story.
I don't ever recall such harassment of a civil servant as we've seen in the last couple of days though.
Cummings is in reality much more political than civil. I don't think he'd wish to be thought anything else. But of course he shouldn't be harassed personally and picketing someone's home is always repulsive.
Repulsive is very very generous- this is a culture war with the Puritains trying to burn their self anointed witch.
Is breaking the law to point out someone has broken the law, a defence under the law?
What law has that person broken?
Well clearly he is not there to take exercise. And since he claims he was furloughed he clearly isn't there for employment purposes either.
He’ll plead exceptional circumstances, lose, get fined, and walk away a martyr to some. Not me I hasten to add - it’s a cheap stunt that detracts from the hole being dug quite nicely without this sort of thing.
The piteous cries for 'kindness and tolerance' for a 'man and his family for decisions taken at a time of great stress and worry' are a sight to behold. Cumming's whole career as evidenced by his recent public performances has been based on him being a cnut, and he gave every sign of revelling in it when he was top dog.
It's been a while since I have read the Sermon on the Mount, but don't think the idea behind 'kindness' or 'tolerance' is that we're kind or tolerant just to the people who deserve it.
Virtue without terror is powerless so fuck kindness, fuck tolerance and fuck the Islington Baldrick.
If that's Labour it's their first mis-step in this - it will allow Tories to go on the attack about "harassing 4 year olds and their mothers" - especially since Cummings is reportedly in Downing St.
Live by the sword. Anyway, Cummings brought his child into it when he told his staff in Cabinet to defend him with the kid.
That Sir is rubbish!
Yeah, but that's politics now. One side had 10 years of using both the velvet glove and the iron fist, like Vote Leave and Leave.EU, so if the other side is fighting back with two hands as well, we can't really be surprised.
I have no problem with your desire to take down Cummings. His wife and child are not acceptable collateral damage.
Live by the sword..............he reaps what he sows, in his immortal words who cares what he thinks
I don't care what he thinks Malcolm, but his child did not ask to have such a hideous oik for a father so the child should be left out of all the nastiness.
I agree Pete, but it is Cummings fault , as I said he is reaping what he sows to the detriment of his family.
It is interesting that those on here most vociferous in their defence of Cummings' family (myself excluded) were quite happy to beat up on Mrs Starmer Senior and her donkeys.
As I am certainly not defending Cummings, may I ask what the story is about Mrs Starmer and her donkeys? That one completely passed me by.
The Mail attacked Starmer for owning a field which he'd bought for his ill Mother to keep her donkeys in.
Cheers. Yep that one genuinely passed me by completely. But then it is the Mail so should be treated with contempt anyway. I know I shouldn't ask but why is buying your Mum a field in any way wrong? A slightly strange Mother's Day pressie perhaps but hardly the weirdest I have ever heard of.
I think the Mail was going for a "KS is a fake lefty because he’s really worth £millions" line in order to try and drive wedges between segments of the Labour membership. And to be fair, those splits are there to be exploited if you can find a way to do it - the Labour left is still very sore over Corbyn & the leadership election that followed with all the shenanigans by the party employees & so on.
Whole story kind of fell flat on it’s face though. "Labour leader cares about donkeys" really didn’t split the membership in the way they hoped.
The value of the land had apparently increased such that, if it was a housing estate rather than a field, the houses on it could be worth up to £10m (although, to be clear, it isn't a housing estate, there's no planning permission on it, and it's actually used to keep donkeys).
Still, pretty earth-shattering as a scandal, I am sure you'll agree.
It was green belt IIRC, so the odds of getting that planning permission are long indeed. In the meantime, the land is worth a few £10k at most.
Note that is continuity IDS Tweeting out Labour propaganda...
What's the betting that would were pumping out condemnatory tweets about Tim Montgomerie a couple of months ago over his Hungarian associations?
That sentence makes no sense at all, are you okay?
I'm pointing out that Tim Montgomerie was in recent months the face of evil to anti-Tories for his praise of Viktor Orban, but now his opinions are treated as gospel because it's politically convenient for them. Ergo, they are hypocrites.
Do I really have to spell out such simple things for you?
Yes. What does your operative phrase “that would were pumping” actually mean? When I was a kid my mum fed me alphabet soup and my resulting shit made more sense than that.
'Would' in that sentence was a typo for 'you'. How did you get on in school without being able to deduce things like that?
Obvious typos are not a completely different word made up of a twice the number of letters - so the most likely explanation, based on that and everything else you post, was that you were having some sort of aneurism. Hence my concern.
As for school, unexceptional. An unconditional offer from Oxford, a degree in history, a conversion course, an LL.M and a partnership in a City Law Firm. Mere bagatelle I accept.
You've never started a sentence then reworked its construction but neglected to alter a single word? OK.
You're not the only person to have been at Oxford, by the way.
Hmm. The original email is carefully ambiguous. The Poly up Headington Hill? The Secretarial College? The footie club down the Abingdon Road?
Nope, an actual ancient Oxford college. But since neither of us is likely to post our degree certificates on PB, you can choose to believe or disbelieve either of us as you please.
LOL, the fanny Tories on here are always bragging about which Uni, which gold card , which 5 star hotel they frequent etc. Poor inferiority complexes, be interesting to compare them to the plebs who left school and do real jobs. I would not have lowered myself to go into a bunch of crapbags at Oxford/Cambridge etc, I cannot think of a worse punishment.
Oxbridge holds no mystique for me. I know it's totally wrong, but when I encounter an Oxbridge attendee my immediate thought is: 'Yeah, yeah. Had rich parents who got them into a good school that could game the entrance process.' It's chippy and unfair and I hate myself for it, but it is what I think.
Unfortunately it is very often accurate as you see with many of the hoorays running the country.
Is breaking the law to point out someone has broken the law, a defence under the law?
What law has that person broken?
Well clearly he is not there to take exercise. And since he claims he was furloughed he clearly isn't there for employment purposes either.
Did you not know the regulations had changed? It doesn't have to be exercise now - it can also be "open-air recreation to promote their physical or mental health or emotional wellbeing".
The piteous cries for 'kindness and tolerance' for a 'man and his family for decisions taken at a time of great stress and worry' are a sight to behold. Cumming's whole career as evidenced by his recent public performances has been based on him being a cnut, and he gave every sign of revelling in it when he was top dog.
I've not been following the site today. Am I reading right now that the story is that Cummings has made multiple trips?
If so he should go.
I was willing yesterday to give the benefit of the doubt if it was for the welfare of a three year old. As a father of a three year old myself their safety must always come first.
However multiple trips without reasonable reasons is simply inexcusable if true.
I hope that's clear enough.
That's fine. But we do need to hear a heartfelt "sorry" from you. You lost some dignity with all the nonsense yesterday. An apology would go some way to restoring it.
Not at all.
I was responding to the facts at the time. If the facts are that a father was looking after a three year old then I will never object to that. Children come before politics.
If the facts are that there have been multiple trips then that wasn't something I knew yesterday and doesn't change what I said one iota.
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?
In a frenzy of partisanship you placed your brain in a jar and swallowed whole the risible transformation of, 'He chose to self-isolate in more amenable surroundings' into, 'Fearing for welfare of small child, he acted as any father would' - and thus lost dignity.
It was sad to see.
Not at all. I never said that. I said that if he's done what he's done thinking it's in the best interests of his child then that's reasonable. I also said (as I've said all along) that every adult, every parent, must think for themselves.
I never said all father's would do the same thing that's ludicrous and doesn't match my philosophy of believing everyone is an individual who can act differently so why would I say that? That would be completely out of character. I don't believe in one size fits all solutions.
You swallowed it, is the point. And in doing so looked less the free-thinking, socially liberal, libertarian with a hankering for England My England, and rather more the slavishly partisan supporter of this Boris Johnson Conservative Government.
Gives me no pleasure to say this, Philip, but I'm afraid it's true. I know you won't apologize on here but I do hope you reflect.
Find a single instance of me criticising anyone for parenting and you'd have a point.
It is a liberal philosophy to believe everyone can make their own choices in good faith for their own children.
If that's Labour it's their first mis-step in this - it will allow Tories to go on the attack about "harassing 4 year olds and their mothers" - especially since Cummings is reportedly in Downing St.
Live by the sword. Anyway, Cummings brought his child into it when he told his staff in Cabinet to defend him with the kid.
That Sir is rubbish!
Yeah, but that's politics now. One side had 10 years of using both the velvet glove and the iron fist, like Vote Leave and Leave.EU, so if the other side is fighting back with two hands as well, we can't really be surprised.
I have no problem with your desire to take down Cummings. His wife and child are not acceptable collateral damage.
Live by the sword..............he reaps what he sows, in his immortal words who cares what he thinks
I don't care what he thinks Malcolm, but his child did not ask to have such a hideous oik for a father so the child should be left out of all the nastiness.
I agree Pete, but it is Cummings fault , as I said he is reaping what he sows to the detriment of his family.
It is interesting that those on here most vociferous in their defence of Cummings' family (myself excluded) were quite happy to beat up on Mrs Starmer Senior and her donkeys.
As I am certainly not defending Cummings, may I ask what the story is about Mrs Starmer and her donkeys? That one completely passed me by.
It was a Daily Mail front page article on Kier Starmer a week or two ago: Headline something like "Starmer owns land worth up to £10milllion".
Actual story is: Starmer owns green belt land next to his mother’s house that he bought for her donkey sanctuary. It’s worth maybe £20k tops.
Build a bunch of houses on it & you could probably sell them all for £10million total but a) that requires you to get planning permission on the green belt & b) to pay to build the houses in the first place. "Up to" was doing an awful lot of work in that headline.
(Actual £ figures may vary, but general principle is accurate to my recollection.)
The fact his mother owns a donkey sanctuary is the first thing I've heard about him that improves my view of him.
Owned. I believe she is no longer with us
Sad. Hope the donkeys are still being looked after.
Sir Keir ordered that the donkeys be SHOT with a bolt gun before she was cold in the ground, and insisted on WATCHING the carnage personally while eating VEAL and drinking FRENCH wine.
Either that or someone else with a field who knew Starmer's elderly parents took them on.
PB Tories calling out the hounding of Cummings is a noble thing to do, except they've never called out hounding of MPs on the other side.
Yes we have.
Also, Cummings is a civil servant, a member of staff not an elected politician.
When?
Personally, right back to Gordon Brown when he was PM, and Damien McBride was his media henchman who became the story.
I don't ever recall such harassment of a civil servant as we've seen in the last couple of days though.
Cummings is in reality much more political than civil. I don't think he'd wish to be thought anything else. But of course he shouldn't be harassed personally and picketing someone's home is always repulsive.
Repulsive is very very generous- this is a culture war with the Puritains trying to burn their self anointed witch.
If that's Labour it's their first mis-step in this - it will allow Tories to go on the attack about "harassing 4 year olds and their mothers" - especially since Cummings is reportedly in Downing St.
Live by the sword. Anyway, Cummings brought his child into it when he told his staff in Cabinet to defend him with the kid.
That Sir is rubbish!
Yeah, but that's politics now. One side had 10 years of using both the velvet glove and the iron fist, like Vote Leave and Leave.EU, so if the other side is fighting back with two hands as well, we can't really be surprised.
I have no problem with your desire to take down Cummings. His wife and child are not acceptable collateral damage.
Live by the sword..............he reaps what he sows, in his immortal words who cares what he thinks
I don't care what he thinks Malcolm, but his child did not ask to have such a hideous oik for a father so the child should be left out of all the nastiness.
I agree Pete, but it is Cummings fault , as I said he is reaping what he sows to the detriment of his family.
It is interesting that those on here most vociferous in their defence of Cummings' family (myself excluded) were quite happy to beat up on Mrs Starmer Senior and her donkeys.
As I am certainly not defending Cummings, may I ask what the story is about Mrs Starmer and her donkeys? That one completely passed me by.
The Mail attacked Starmer for owning a field which he'd bought for his ill Mother to keep her donkeys in.
Cheers. Yep that one genuinely passed me by completely. But then it is the Mail so should be treated with contempt anyway. I know I shouldn't ask but why is buying your Mum a field in any way wrong? A slightly strange Mother's Day pressie perhaps but hardly the weirdest I have ever heard of.
They were making out he was a millionaire land developer, completely bogus.
Massively off topic but a change of Opposition leader in New Zealand with the ousting of National leader Simon Bridges and his replacement by Todd Muller.
The latest Colmar Brunton poll published on Thursday might well have been the last straw for Bridges as it showed a five point National lead (46-41) having turned into a 30-point Labour lead (59-29) via a 17.5% swing to Jacinda Ardern's party.
As we've seen elsewhere, incumbent Governments have done very well out of covid-19 and Ardern is no exception. The poll numbers suggested Ardern's Labour Party would win 79 of the 120 seats in the NZ Parliament with National on 38 and the Greens on 3 leaving Labour with a majority of 38.
That poll and the implication of serious backbench losses probably tipped the balance agsinst Bridges. Muller now has less than four months to restore National fortunes before the September election.
Note that is continuity IDS Tweeting out Labour propaganda...
What's the betting that would were pumping out condemnatory tweets about Tim Montgomerie a couple of months ago over his Hungarian associations?
That sentence makes no sense at all, are you okay?
I'm pointing out that Tim Montgomerie was in recent months the face of evil to anti-Tories for his praise of Viktor Orban, but now his opinions are treated as gospel because it's politically convenient for them. Ergo, they are hypocrites.
Do I really have to spell out such simple things for you?
Yes. What does your operative phrase “that would were pumping” actually mean? When I was a kid my mum fed me alphabet soup and my resulting shit made more sense than that.
'Would' in that sentence was a typo for 'you'. How did you get on in school without being able to deduce things like that?
Obvious typos are not a completely different word made up of a twice the number of letters - so the most likely explanation, based on that and everything else you post, was that you were having some sort of aneurism. Hence my concern.
As for school, unexceptional. An unconditional offer from Oxford, a degree in history, a conversion course, an LL.M and a partnership in a City Law Firm. Mere bagatelle I accept.
You've never started a sentence then reworked its construction but neglected to alter a single word? OK.
You're not the only person to have been at Oxford, by the way.
Hmm. The original email is carefully ambiguous. The Poly up Headington Hill? The Secretarial College? The footie club down the Abingdon Road?
Nope, an actual ancient Oxford college. But since neither of us is likely to post our degree certificates on PB, you can choose to believe or disbelieve either of us as you please.
LOL, the fanny Tories on here are always bragging about which Uni, which gold card , which 5 star hotel they frequent etc. Poor inferiority complexes, be interesting to compare them to the plebs who left school and do real jobs. I would not have lowered myself to go into a bunch of crapbags at Oxford/Cambridge etc, I cannot think of a worse punishment.
I am not a Tory. You, however, appear to have one as your profile avatar.
Charlie was a man of the people
Maybe, but by definition Charles Stuart was also a Tory. The very first Tories were Jacobites when they opposed the Whig-supported Exclusion Bill which set out to disinherit the heir presumptive James, Duke of York, who eventually became James II of England and VII of Scotland.
His grandson was Roman native Charles Edward Louis John Casimir Sylvester Maria Stuart (real man of the people stuff that name) who spent all of his 14 months of his life within the shores of Britain attempting to resurrect the Tory cause and regain his thrones in Edinburgh and London as a Catholic autarchy.
For a man who spends a lot of time on here slagging off Tories it is ironic that you have one as your profile pic.
The piteous cries for 'kindness and tolerance' for a 'man and his family for decisions taken at a time of great stress and worry' are a sight to behold. Cumming's whole career as evidenced by his recent public performances has been based on him being a cnut, and he gave every sign of revelling in it when he was top dog.
Note that is continuity IDS Tweeting out Labour propaganda...
What's the betting that would were pumping out condemnatory tweets about Tim Montgomerie a couple of months ago over his Hungarian associations?
That sentence makes no sense at all, are you okay?
I'm pointing out that Tim Montgomerie was in recent months the face of evil to anti-Tories for his praise of Viktor Orban, but now his opinions are treated as gospel because it's politically convenient for them. Ergo, they are hypocrites.
Do I really have to spell out such simple things for you?
Yes. What does your operative phrase “that would were pumping” actually mean? When I was a kid my mum fed me alphabet soup and my resulting shit made more sense than that.
'Would' in that sentence was a typo for 'you'. How did you get on in school without being able to deduce things like that?
Obvious typos are not a completely different word made up of a twice the number of letters - so the most likely explanation, based on that and everything else you post, was that you were having some sort of aneurism. Hence my concern.
As for school, unexceptional. An unconditional offer from Oxford, a degree in history, a conversion course, an LL.M and a partnership in a City Law Firm. Mere bagatelle I accept.
You've never started a sentence then reworked its construction but neglected to alter a single word? OK.
You're not the only person to have been at Oxford, by the way.
Hmm. The original email is carefully ambiguous. The Poly up Headington Hill? The Secretarial College? The footie club down the Abingdon Road?
Nope, an actual ancient Oxford college. But since neither of us is likely to post our degree certificates on PB, you can choose to believe or disbelieve either of us as you please.
LOL, the fanny Tories on here are always bragging about which Uni, which gold card , which 5 star hotel they frequent etc. Poor inferiority complexes, be interesting to compare them to the plebs who left school and do real jobs. I would not have lowered myself to go into a bunch of crapbags at Oxford/Cambridge etc, I cannot think of a worse punishment.
I am not a Tory. You, however, appear to have one as your profile avatar.
Charlie was a man of the people
Interesting you should be a fan Malc - I was under the impression the predominant Nat feeling these days about BPC was quite unforgiving.
PB Tories calling out the hounding of Cummings is a noble thing to do, except they've never called out hounding of MPs on the other side.
Yes we have.
Also, Cummings is a civil servant, a member of staff not an elected politician.
When?
Personally, right back to Gordon Brown when he was PM, and Damien McBride was his media henchman who became the story.
I don't ever recall such harassment of a civil servant as we've seen in the last couple of days though.
How many times do I have to write this? He is not a bonefide Civil Servant. He is a Conservative Party stooge!
He's still a private figure, not someone elected.
If people have a problem with him (which clearly many do), then they should address Mr Johnson, the elected politician who appointed him to his role.
Screaming outside his house on a Sunday, when he is known to be at work but his wife and child are likely home, is really not playing the game.
That's weird, as the Police have just turned up at his house, and his wife and child aren't in (observed by journalists).
Wonder where they are? Durham seems too obvious.
Mass sigh of disappointment by PB Tories that in fact (checks notes) a 'toddler' isn't being 'terrorised'. That's the first moderately high piece of moral ground that they've been able to crawl onto for several days.
"Cummings had to make a proper sacrifice to take the job; Johnson talked him into cancelling a surgical procedure, serious enough to warrant general anaesthetic, which had been scheduled for three days later, when Johnson formally became PM.
He promised his wife, the journalist Mary Wakefield, that he would reschedule the operation for the week following 31 October and only after the op would he then discuss with Johnson what – if any – his future role in government would be.
I cannot judge whether Cummings will return after the surgery. I understand it depends on his health, the views of his wife, and whether he and Johnson can agree on a long-term role that would suit them both. Pimpernel-like, he may vanish again."
PB Tories calling out the hounding of Cummings is a noble thing to do, except they've never called out hounding of MPs on the other side.
Yes we have.
Also, Cummings is a civil servant, a member of staff not an elected politician.
When?
Personally, right back to Gordon Brown when he was PM, and Damien McBride was his media henchman who became the story.
I don't ever recall such harassment of a civil servant as we've seen in the last couple of days though.
Cummings is in reality much more political than civil. I don't think he'd wish to be thought anything else. But of course he shouldn't be harassed personally and picketing someone's home is always repulsive.
Repulsive is very very generous- this is a culture war with the Puritains trying to burn their self anointed witch.
Horrible narrow minded people.
Scum actually.
Aw diddums.
Typical fundamentalist leftie - thinks nothing should stand in the way of the cause - because the cause is righteous - see the IRA, Al Qaeda, National Socialists in Germany etc.
The piteous cries for 'kindness and tolerance' for a 'man and his family for decisions taken at a time of great stress and worry' are a sight to behold. Cumming's whole career as evidenced by his recent public performances has been based on him being a cnut, and he gave every sign of revelling in it when he was top dog.
Note that is continuity IDS Tweeting out Labour propaganda...
What's the betting that would were pumping out condemnatory tweets about Tim Montgomerie a couple of months ago over his Hungarian associations?
That sentence makes no sense at all, are you okay?
I'm pointing out that Tim Montgomerie was in recent months the face of evil to anti-Tories for his praise of Viktor Orban, but now his opinions are treated as gospel because it's politically convenient for them. Ergo, they are hypocrites.
Do I really have to spell out such simple things for you?
Yes. What does your operative phrase “that would were pumping” actually mean? When I was a kid my mum fed me alphabet soup and my resulting shit made more sense than that.
'Would' in that sentence was a typo for 'you'. How did you get on in school without being able to deduce things like that?
Obvious typos are not a completely different word made up of a twice the number of letters - so the most likely explanation, based on that and everything else you post, was that you were having some sort of aneurism. Hence my concern.
As for school, unexceptional. An unconditional offer from Oxford, a degree in history, a conversion course, an LL.M and a partnership in a City Law Firm. Mere bagatelle I accept.
You've never started a sentence then reworked its construction but neglected to alter a single word? OK.
You're not the only person to have been at Oxford, by the way.
Hmm. The original email is carefully ambiguous. The Poly up Headington Hill? The Secretarial College? The footie club down the Abingdon Road?
Nope, an actual ancient Oxford college. But since neither of us is likely to post our degree certificates on PB, you can choose to believe or disbelieve either of us as you please.
LOL, the fanny Tories on here are always bragging about which Uni, which gold card , which 5 star hotel they frequent etc. Poor inferiority complexes, be interesting to compare them to the plebs who left school and do real jobs. I would not have lowered myself to go into a bunch of crapbags at Oxford/Cambridge etc, I cannot think of a worse punishment.
I am not a Tory. You, however, appear to have one as your profile avatar.
Charlie was a man of the people
Maybe, but by definition Charles Stuart was also a Tory. The very first Tories were Jacobites when they opposed the Whig-supported Exclusion Bill which set out to disinherit the heir presumptive James, Duke of York, who eventually became James II of England and VII of Scotland.
His grandson was Roman native Charles Edward Louis John Casimir Sylvester Maria Stuart (real man of the people stuff that name) who spent all of his 14 months of his life within the shores of Britain attempting to resurrect the Tory cause and regain his thrones in Edinburgh and London as a Catholic autarchy.
For a man who spends a lot of time on here slagging off Tories it is ironic that you have one as your profile pic.
He is there for a very specific purpose.
What, to promote Absolute Monarchism and an established Catholic Church as a viable form of government? Weird given your other posts.
PB Tories calling out the hounding of Cummings is a noble thing to do, except they've never called out hounding of MPs on the other side.
Yes we have.
Also, Cummings is a civil servant, a member of staff not an elected politician.
When?
Personally, right back to Gordon Brown when he was PM, and Damien McBride was his media henchman who became the story.
I don't ever recall such harassment of a civil servant as we've seen in the last couple of days though.
Cummings is in reality much more political than civil. I don't think he'd wish to be thought anything else. But of course he shouldn't be harassed personally and picketing someone's home is always repulsive.
Repulsive is very very generous- this is a culture war with the Puritains trying to burn their self anointed witch.
Horrible narrow minded people.
Scum actually.
Aw diddums.
Typical fundamentalist leftie - thinks nothing should stand in the way of the cause - because the cause is righteous - see the IRA, Al Qaeda, National Socialists in Germany etc.
I've not been following the site today. Am I reading right now that the story is that Cummings has made multiple trips?
If so he should go.
I was willing yesterday to give the benefit of the doubt if it was for the welfare of a three year old. As a father of a three year old myself their safety must always come first.
However multiple trips without reasonable reasons is simply inexcusable if true.
I hope that's clear enough.
That's fine. But we do need to hear a heartfelt "sorry" from you. You lost some dignity with all the nonsense yesterday. An apology would go some way to restoring it.
Not at all.
I was responding to the facts at the time. If the facts are that a father was looking after a three year old then I will never object to that. Children come before politics.
If the facts are that there have been multiple trips then that wasn't something I knew yesterday and doesn't change what I said one iota.
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?
In a frenzy of partisanship you placed your brain in a jar and swallowed whole the risible transformation of, 'He chose to self-isolate in more amenable surroundings' into, 'Fearing for welfare of small child, he acted as any father would' - and thus lost dignity.
It was sad to see.
Not at all. I never said that. I said that if he's done what he's done thinking it's in the best interests of his child then that's reasonable. I also said (as I've said all along) that every adult, every parent, must think for themselves.
I never said all father's would do the same thing that's ludicrous and doesn't match my philosophy of believing everyone is an individual who can act differently so why would I say that? That would be completely out of character. I don't believe in one size fits all solutions.
You swallowed it, is the point. And in doing so looked less the free-thinking, socially liberal, libertarian with a hankering for England My England, and rather more the slavishly partisan supporter of this Boris Johnson Conservative Government.
Gives me no pleasure to say this, Philip, but I'm afraid it's true. I know you won't apologize on here but I do hope you reflect.
Find a single instance of me criticising anyone for parenting and you'd have a point.
It is a liberal philosophy to believe everyone can make their own choices in good faith for their own children.
I'd love to know what Dom's and BoJo's deal is....after all BoJo has the moral scruples of of Fred West and would throw his child under a train to save his skin...
The only thing that BoJo is loyal to is BoJo....so keeping on Dom suggests something is amiss at Number 10....
PB Tories calling out the hounding of Cummings is a noble thing to do, except they've never called out hounding of MPs on the other side.
Yes we have.
Also, Cummings is a civil servant, a member of staff not an elected politician.
When?
Personally, right back to Gordon Brown when he was PM, and Damien McBride was his media henchman who became the story.
I don't ever recall such harassment of a civil servant as we've seen in the last couple of days though.
Cummings is in reality much more political than civil. I don't think he'd wish to be thought anything else. But of course he shouldn't be harassed personally and picketing someone's home is always repulsive.
Repulsive is very very generous- this is a culture war with the Puritains trying to burn their self anointed witch.
Horrible narrow minded people.
Scum actually.
Aw diddums.
Typical fundamentalist leftie - thinks nothing should stand in the way of the cause - because the cause is righteous - see the IRA, Al Qaeda, National Socialists in Germany etc.
Horrible people - Lead by Donkeys - run by cnuts.
You’re equating these guys with the Nazis?
Harry's gone full tonto! I suppose his boys have taken a hell of a beating.
I've not been following the site today. Am I reading right now that the story is that Cummings has made multiple trips?
If so he should go.
I was willing yesterday to give the benefit of the doubt if it was for the welfare of a three year old. As a father of a three year old myself their safety must always come first.
However multiple trips without reasonable reasons is simply inexcusable if true.
I hope that's clear enough.
That's fine. But we do need to hear a heartfelt "sorry" from you. You lost some dignity with all the nonsense yesterday. An apology would go some way to restoring it.
Not at all.
I was responding to the facts at the time. If the facts are that a father was looking after a three year old then I will never object to that. Children come before politics.
If the facts are that there have been multiple trips then that wasn't something I knew yesterday and doesn't change what I said one iota.
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?
In a frenzy of partisanship you placed your brain in a jar and swallowed whole the risible transformation of, 'He chose to self-isolate in more amenable surroundings' into, 'Fearing for welfare of small child, he acted as any father would' - and thus lost dignity.
It was sad to see.
Not at all. I never said that. I said that if he's done what he's done thinking it's in the best interests of his child then that's reasonable. I also said (as I've said all along) that every adult, every parent, must think for themselves.
I never said all father's would do the same thing that's ludicrous and doesn't match my philosophy of believing everyone is an individual who can act differently so why would I say that? That would be completely out of character. I don't believe in one size fits all solutions.
You swallowed it, is the point. And in doing so looked less the free-thinking, socially liberal, libertarian with a hankering for England My England, and rather more the slavishly partisan supporter of this Boris Johnson Conservative Government.
Gives me no pleasure to say this, Philip, but I'm afraid it's true. I know you won't apologize on here but I do hope you reflect.
Find a single instance of me criticising anyone for parenting and you'd have a point.
It is a liberal philosophy to believe everyone can make their own choices in good faith for their own children.
I'd love to know what Dom's and BoJo's deal is....after all BoJo has the moral scruples of of Fred West and would throw his child under a train to save his skin...
The only thing that BoJo is loyal to is BoJo....so keeping on Dom suggests something is amiss at Number 10....
I somehow still think sticking by Cummings helps Johnson in the medium term. As soon as Cummings falls the focus is switched to Johnson and what he knew.
Cummings also knows where all the bodies are buried.
I think Cummings is staying for now and Johnson is staying until the election.
Going to lay 2020 exit at 5 right NOW.
You can back Cummings to stay till June at 15/8 with Paddy Power or Betfair Sportsbook.
Thanks. I'm banned from all bookies unfortunately. Can only do Exchange and Spreads.
Do you think Dom is going?
Why are you banned from bookies?
I used to make a steady income stream from betting and after a while they all either closed me down or effectively did by imposing stake limits of 50p or similar.
So now it's Betfair Exchange or Sporting Index.
Which is actually good because I used to spend so much time on the betting it got quite boring and became more like a job than a recreation.
Matched betting was it?
I did similar too with casinos. Shut me down eventually.
Matched as in hedged to lock in small profits each time, yes.
How on earth can you win at a casino apart from blackjack or poker?
PB Tories calling out the hounding of Cummings is a noble thing to do, except they've never called out hounding of MPs on the other side.
Yes we have.
Also, Cummings is a civil servant, a member of staff not an elected politician.
When?
Personally, right back to Gordon Brown when he was PM, and Damien McBride was his media henchman who became the story.
I don't ever recall such harassment of a civil servant as we've seen in the last couple of days though.
Cummings is in reality much more political than civil. I don't think he'd wish to be thought anything else. But of course he shouldn't be harassed personally and picketing someone's home is always repulsive.
Repulsive is very very generous- this is a culture war with the Puritains trying to burn their self anointed witch.
Horrible narrow minded people.
Scum actually.
Aw diddums.
Typical fundamentalist leftie - thinks nothing should stand in the way of the cause - because the cause is righteous - see the IRA, Al Qaeda, National Socialists in Germany etc.
Horrible people - Lead by Donkeys - run by cnuts.
You’re equating these guys with the Nazis?
I think he needs a lie down, and possibly a quick lobotomy.....
I'm currently translating new German legislation (some people have fun Sundays, y'know) which is quite interesting - they are envisaging the possibility of Covid medicines becoming available but difficult to produce in sufficient quantities, so the legislation gives the authorities to exempt both domestic and foreign pharmaceutical compsanies from all the usual requirements for production (GMP, package leaflet, labelling) and to waive their product liability for Covid products.
Completely out of touch. Nobody in real Britain thinks there needs to be an investigation because everyone who followed the rules to the letter knows he broke them, and he broke them really, really badly.
If they think that old tactic will work, they've got another thing coming.
I somehow still think sticking by Cummings helps Johnson in the medium term. As soon as Cummings falls the focus is switched to Johnson and what he knew.
Cummings also knows where all the bodies are buried.
I think Cummings is staying for now and Johnson is staying until the election.
Going to lay 2020 exit at 5 right NOW.
You can back Cummings to stay till June at 15/8 with Paddy Power or Betfair Sportsbook.
Thanks. I'm banned from all bookies unfortunately. Can only do Exchange and Spreads.
Do you think Dom is going?
Why are you banned from bookies?
I used to make a steady income stream from betting and after a while they all either closed me down or effectively did by imposing stake limits of 50p or similar.
So now it's Betfair Exchange or Sporting Index.
Which is actually good because I used to spend so much time on the betting it got quite boring and became more like a job than a recreation.
Matched betting was it?
I did similar too with casinos. Shut me down eventually.
Matched as in hedged to lock in small profits each time, yes.
How on earth can you win at a casino apart from blackjack or poker?
PB Tories calling out the hounding of Cummings is a noble thing to do, except they've never called out hounding of MPs on the other side.
Yes we have.
Also, Cummings is a civil servant, a member of staff not an elected politician.
When?
Personally, right back to Gordon Brown when he was PM, and Damien McBride was his media henchman who became the story.
I don't ever recall such harassment of a civil servant as we've seen in the last couple of days though.
Cummings is in reality much more political than civil. I don't think he'd wish to be thought anything else. But of course he shouldn't be harassed personally and picketing someone's home is always repulsive.
Repulsive is very very generous- this is a culture war with the Puritains trying to burn their self anointed witch.
Horrible narrow minded people.
Scum actually.
Aw diddums.
Typical fundamentalist leftie - thinks nothing should stand in the way of the cause - because the cause is righteous - see the IRA, Al Qaeda, National Socialists in Germany etc.
Horrible people - Lead by Donkeys - run by cnuts.
You’re equating these guys with the Nazis?
I think he needs a lie down, and possibly a quick lobotomy.....
The devout Tories are getting fractious as their silly excuses get ridiculed more and more.
I've not been following the site today. Am I reading right now that the story is that Cummings has made multiple trips?
If so he should go.
I was willing yesterday to give the benefit of the doubt if it was for the welfare of a three year old. As a father of a three year old myself their safety must always come first.
However multiple trips without reasonable reasons is simply inexcusable if true.
I hope that's clear enough.
That's fine. But we do need to hear a heartfelt "sorry" from you. You lost some dignity with all the nonsense yesterday. An apology would go some way to restoring it.
Not at all.
I was responding to the facts at the time. If the facts are that a father was looking after a three year old then I will never object to that. Children come before politics.
If the facts are that there have been multiple trips then that wasn't something I knew yesterday and doesn't change what I said one iota.
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?
In a frenzy of partisanship you placed your brain in a jar and swallowed whole the risible transformation of, 'He chose to self-isolate in more amenable surroundings' into, 'Fearing for welfare of small child, he acted as any father would' - and thus lost dignity.
It was sad to see.
Not at all. I never said that. I said that if he's done what he's done thinking it's in the best interests of his child then that's reasonable. I also said (as I've said all along) that every adult, every parent, must think for themselves.
I never said all father's would do the same thing that's ludicrous and doesn't match my philosophy of believing everyone is an individual who can act differently so why would I say that? That would be completely out of character. I don't believe in one size fits all solutions.
You swallowed it, is the point. And in doing so looked less the free-thinking, socially liberal, libertarian with a hankering for England My England, and rather more the slavishly partisan supporter of this Boris Johnson Conservative Government.
Gives me no pleasure to say this, Philip, but I'm afraid it's true. I know you won't apologize on here but I do hope you reflect.
Find a single instance of me criticising anyone for parenting and you'd have a point.
It is a liberal philosophy to believe everyone can make their own choices in good faith for their own children.
I'd love to know what Dom's and BoJo's deal is....after all BoJo has the moral scruples of of Fred West and would throw his child under a train to save his skin...
The only thing that BoJo is loyal to is BoJo....so keeping on Dom suggests something is amiss at Number 10....
What says you Mr Thompson?
Johnson is Fred West, but Dom is Rosemary West: the brains of the outfit, and possibly the instigator.
The piteous cries for 'kindness and tolerance' for a 'man and his family for decisions taken at a time of great stress and worry' are a sight to behold. Cumming's whole career as evidenced by his recent public performances has been based on him being a cnut, and he gave every sign of revelling in it when he was top dog.
I'm currently translating new German legislation (some people have fun Sundays, y'know) which is quite interesting - they are envisaging the possibility of Covid medicines becoming available but difficult to produce in sufficient quantities, so the legislation gives the authorities to exempt both domestic and foreign pharmaceutical compsanies from all the usual requirements for production (GMP, package leaflet, labelling) and to waive their product liability for Covid products.
I've not been following the site today. Am I reading right now that the story is that Cummings has made multiple trips?
If so he should go.
I was willing yesterday to give the benefit of the doubt if it was for the welfare of a three year old. As a father of a three year old myself their safety must always come first.
However multiple trips without reasonable reasons is simply inexcusable if true.
I hope that's clear enough.
That's fine. But we do need to hear a heartfelt "sorry" from you. You lost some dignity with all the nonsense yesterday. An apology would go some way to restoring it.
Not at all.
I was responding to the facts at the time. If the facts are that a father was looking after a three year old then I will never object to that. Children come before politics.
If the facts are that there have been multiple trips then that wasn't something I knew yesterday and doesn't change what I said one iota.
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?
In a frenzy of partisanship you placed your brain in a jar and swallowed whole the risible transformation of, 'He chose to self-isolate in more amenable surroundings' into, 'Fearing for welfare of small child, he acted as any father would' - and thus lost dignity.
It was sad to see.
Not at all. I never said that. I said that if he's done what he's done thinking it's in the best interests of his child then that's reasonable. I also said (as I've said all along) that every adult, every parent, must think for themselves.
I never said all father's would do the same thing that's ludicrous and doesn't match my philosophy of believing everyone is an individual who can act differently so why would I say that? That would be completely out of character. I don't believe in one size fits all solutions.
You swallowed it, is the point. And in doing so looked less the free-thinking, socially liberal, libertarian with a hankering for England My England, and rather more the slavishly partisan supporter of this Boris Johnson Conservative Government.
Gives me no pleasure to say this, Philip, but I'm afraid it's true. I know you won't apologize on here but I do hope you reflect.
Find a single instance of me criticising anyone for parenting and you'd have a point.
It is a liberal philosophy to believe everyone can make their own choices in good faith for their own children.
I'd love to know what Dom's and BoJo's deal is....after all BoJo has the moral scruples of of Fred West and would throw his child under a train to save his skin...
The only thing that BoJo is loyal to is BoJo....so keeping on Dom suggests something is amiss at Number 10....
What says you Mr Thompson?
Dom knows where the bodies are buried..
Possibly....or Boris is just emotionally dependant on having him around all the time....
It is something worrying though because any rational relationship would have led to Cummings resigning and coming back in 6 months or so....
I’m quite proud of my Russell Group undergraduate degree. 🤷♂️
As you should be. I was very unhappy at Oxford before I met my future wife there. Grammar school kids are not posh enough to be toffs but too posh to adopt the angry young man/working class hero thing many of those educated at comps, esp Northern comps, often did.
I don't hold the media in quite as much contempt as some of the BJ boosters and Tory till I die guys on here, but sometimes their lack of self awareness is quite astonishing.
PB Tories calling out the hounding of Cummings is a noble thing to do, except they've never called out hounding of MPs on the other side.
Yes we have.
Also, Cummings is a civil servant, a member of staff not an elected politician.
When?
Personally, right back to Gordon Brown when he was PM, and Damien McBride was his media henchman who became the story.
I don't ever recall such harassment of a civil servant as we've seen in the last couple of days though.
Cummings is in reality much more political than civil. I don't think he'd wish to be thought anything else. But of course he shouldn't be harassed personally and picketing someone's home is always repulsive.
Repulsive is very very generous- this is a culture war with the Puritains trying to burn their self anointed witch.
Horrible narrow minded people.
Scum actually.
Aw diddums.
Typical fundamentalist leftie - thinks nothing should stand in the way of the cause - because the cause is righteous - see the IRA, Al Qaeda, National Socialists in Germany etc.
Horrible people - Lead by Donkeys - run by cnuts.
You’re equating these guys with the Nazis?
I think he needs a lie down, and possibly a quick lobotomy.....
The devout Tories are getting fractious as their silly excuses get ridiculed more and more.
It's shocking how they so freely think they can label their opponents as scum....
I would prefer to be called a see you next Tuesday....
PB Tories calling out the hounding of Cummings is a noble thing to do, except they've never called out hounding of MPs on the other side.
Yes we have.
Also, Cummings is a civil servant, a member of staff not an elected politician.
When?
Personally, right back to Gordon Brown when he was PM, and Damien McBride was his media henchman who became the story.
I don't ever recall such harassment of a civil servant as we've seen in the last couple of days though.
Cummings is in reality much more political than civil. I don't think he'd wish to be thought anything else. But of course he shouldn't be harassed personally and picketing someone's home is always repulsive.
Repulsive is very very generous- this is a culture war with the Puritains trying to burn their self anointed witch.
Horrible narrow minded people.
Scum actually.
Aw diddums.
Typical fundamentalist leftie - thinks nothing should stand in the way of the cause - because the cause is righteous - see the IRA, Al Qaeda, National Socialists in Germany etc.
Horrible people - Lead by Donkeys - run by cnuts.
You’re equating these guys with the Nazis?
I think he needs a lie down, and possibly a quick lobotomy.....
The devout Tories are getting fractious as their silly excuses get ridiculed more and more.
Don’t be too unkind. It must be tough for them realising how comprehensively they have been played with all this “won’t you think of the child” excuse-mongering. At least it will stop them using it as a stick to beat their opponents in future, as they have been inclined to do.
Scottish Conservatives FAIL to defend Scotland against pandemic! With his personal trust rating, in YouGov’s January poll, at only 8% and support for his party leader’s Coronavirus unlocking strategy at only 9% in May, Jackson Carlaw must now deal with two damning exposures of how his party’s handling of the crisis has clearly brought the deadly virus to Scotland in the early days of the outbreak. https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2020/05/23/scottish-conservatives-fail-to-defend-scotland-against-pandemic/
I don't hold the media in quite as much contempt as some of the BJ boosters and Tory till I die guys on here, but sometimes their lack of self awareness is quite astonishing.
I somehow still think sticking by Cummings helps Johnson in the medium term. As soon as Cummings falls the focus is switched to Johnson and what he knew.
Cummings also knows where all the bodies are buried.
I think Cummings is staying for now and Johnson is staying until the election.
Going to lay 2020 exit at 5 right NOW.
You can back Cummings to stay till June at 15/8 with Paddy Power or Betfair Sportsbook.
Thanks. I'm banned from all bookies unfortunately. Can only do Exchange and Spreads.
Do you think Dom is going?
Why are you banned from bookies?
I used to make a steady income stream from betting and after a while they all either closed me down or effectively did by imposing stake limits of 50p or similar.
So now it's Betfair Exchange or Sporting Index.
Which is actually good because I used to spend so much time on the betting it got quite boring and became more like a job than a recreation.
Matched betting was it?
I did similar too with casinos. Shut me down eventually.
Matched as in hedged to lock in small profits each time, yes.
How on earth can you win at a casino apart from blackjack or poker?
Bonus offers.
Ah right. I thought you meant physical casinos. Don't know why. The world is digital now.
You don't get the absurdly cheap steak and chips online, though, do you?
I'm currently translating new German legislation (some people have fun Sundays, y'know) which is quite interesting - they are envisaging the possibility of Covid medicines becoming available but difficult to produce in sufficient quantities, so the legislation gives the authorities to exempt both domestic and foreign pharmaceutical compsanies from all the usual requirements for production (GMP, package leaflet, labelling) and to waive their product liability for Covid products.
What does 'waive product liability' mean ?
Does it mean no responsibility for side effects ?
Presumably, yes
The UK has a scheme for no-faulty compensation paid by the state in vaccine damage cases:
I am speaking to you from the cabinet room at 10 Downing Street. This morning the Transport Secretary informed the media that unless they withdrew their scurrilous lies about Saint Dominic of Cummings, a state of war would exist between us.
I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with Germany.”
PB Tories calling out the hounding of Cummings is a noble thing to do, except they've never called out hounding of MPs on the other side.
Yes we have.
Also, Cummings is a civil servant, a member of staff not an elected politician.
When?
Personally, right back to Gordon Brown when he was PM, and Damien McBride was his media henchman who became the story.
I don't ever recall such harassment of a civil servant as we've seen in the last couple of days though.
Cummings is in reality much more political than civil. I don't think he'd wish to be thought anything else. But of course he shouldn't be harassed personally and picketing someone's home is always repulsive.
Repulsive is very very generous- this is a culture war with the Puritains trying to burn their self anointed witch.
Horrible narrow minded people.
Scum actually.
Aw diddums.
Typical fundamentalist leftie - thinks nothing should stand in the way of the cause - because the cause is righteous - see the IRA, Al Qaeda, National Socialists in Germany etc.
I've not been following the site today. Am I reading right now that the story is that Cummings has made multiple trips?
If so he should go.
I was willing yesterday to give the benefit of the doubt if it was for the welfare of a three year old. As a father of a three year old myself their safety must always come first.
However multiple trips without reasonable reasons is simply inexcusable if true.
I hope that's clear enough.
That's fine. But we do need to hear a heartfelt "sorry" from you. You lost some dignity with all the nonsense yesterday. An apology would go some way to restoring it.
Not at all.
I was responding to the facts at the time. If the facts are that a father was looking after a three year old then I will never object to that. Children come before politics.
If the facts are that there have been multiple trips then that wasn't something I knew yesterday and doesn't change what I said one iota.
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?
In a frenzy of partisanship you placed your brain in a jar and swallowed whole the risible transformation of, 'He chose to self-isolate in more amenable surroundings' into, 'Fearing for welfare of small child, he acted as any father would' - and thus lost dignity.
It was sad to see.
Not at all. I never said that. I said that if he's done what he's done thinking it's in the best interests of his child then that's reasonable. I also said (as I've said all along) that every adult, every parent, must think for themselves.
I never said all father's would do the same thing that's ludicrous and doesn't match my philosophy of believing everyone is an individual who can act differently so why would I say that? That would be completely out of character. I don't believe in one size fits all solutions.
You swallowed it, is the point. And in doing so looked less the free-thinking, socially liberal, libertarian with a hankering for England My England, and rather more the slavishly partisan supporter of this Boris Johnson Conservative Government.
Gives me no pleasure to say this, Philip, but I'm afraid it's true. I know you won't apologize on here but I do hope you reflect.
Find a single instance of me criticising anyone for parenting and you'd have a point.
It is a liberal philosophy to believe everyone can make their own choices in good faith for their own children.
I'd love to know what Dom's and BoJo's deal is....after all BoJo has the moral scruples of of Fred West and would throw his child under a train to save his skin...
The only thing that BoJo is loyal to is BoJo....so keeping on Dom suggests something is amiss at Number 10....
I agree with you Tyson ... it's very, very strange. Do we know if Cummings is still at No.10, if so discussing what I wonder? If a deal is done between Boris and DC for him to stay on, can we expect Cabinet resignation(s) tonight or tomorrow?
Scottish Conservatives FAIL to defend Scotland against pandemic! With his personal trust rating, in YouGov’s January poll, at only 8% and support for his party leader’s Coronavirus unlocking strategy at only 9% in May, Jackson Carlaw must now deal with two damning exposures of how his party’s handling of the crisis has clearly brought the deadly virus to Scotland in the early days of the outbreak. https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2020/05/23/scottish-conservatives-fail-to-defend-scotland-against-pandemic/
Last time I checked the Tories weren't in power in Scotland.
From the BBC: "Americans are being warned to be wary of hungry rats who have become angry due to a lack of their usual restaurant food to feast on during the coronavirus lockdown. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said there had been "reports of unusual or aggressive rodent behaviour" due to a decrease in food available, "especially in dense commercial areas"."
PB Tories calling out the hounding of Cummings is a noble thing to do, except they've never called out hounding of MPs on the other side.
Yes we have.
Also, Cummings is a civil servant, a member of staff not an elected politician.
I seem to remember a proper civil servant, Ollie Robbins, having unpleasant vitriol heaped upon him for months on end by right-wing papers and others, simply for doing the job he was asked to do by the PM at the time.
I've not been following the site today. Am I reading right now that the story is that Cummings has made multiple trips?
If so he should go.
I was willing yesterday to give the benefit of the doubt if it was for the welfare of a three year old. As a father of a three year old myself their safety must always come first.
However multiple trips without reasonable reasons is simply inexcusable if true.
I hope that's clear enough.
That's fine. But we do need to hear a heartfelt "sorry" from you. You lost some dignity with all the nonsense yesterday. An apology would go some way to restoring it.
Not at all.
I was responding to the facts at the time. If the facts are that a father was looking after a three year old then I will never object to that. Children come before politics.
If the facts are that there have been multiple trips then that wasn't something I knew yesterday and doesn't change what I said one iota.
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?
In a frenzy of partisanship you placed your brain in a jar and swallowed whole the risible transformation of, 'He chose to self-isolate in more amenable surroundings' into, 'Fearing for welfare of small child, he acted as any father would' - and thus lost dignity.
It was sad to see.
Not at all. I never said that. I said that if he's done what he's done thinking it's in the best interests of his child then that's reasonable. I also said (as I've said all along) that every adult, every parent, must think for themselves.
I never said all father's would do the same thing that's ludicrous and doesn't match my philosophy of believing everyone is an individual who can act differently so why would I say that? That would be completely out of character. I don't believe in one size fits all solutions.
You swallowed it, is the point. And in doing so looked less the free-thinking, socially liberal, libertarian with a hankering for England My England, and rather more the slavishly partisan supporter of this Boris Johnson Conservative Government.
Gives me no pleasure to say this, Philip, but I'm afraid it's true. I know you won't apologize on here but I do hope you reflect.
Find a single instance of me criticising anyone for parenting and you'd have a point.
It is a liberal philosophy to believe everyone can make their own choices in good faith for their own children.
I'd love to know what Dom's and BoJo's deal is....after all BoJo has the moral scruples of of Fred West and would throw his child under a train to save his skin...
The only thing that BoJo is loyal to is BoJo....so keeping on Dom suggests something is amiss at Number 10....
I agree with you Tyson ... it's very, very strange. Do we know if Cummings is still at No.10, if so discussing what I wonder? If a deal is done between Boris and DC for him to stay on, can we expect Cabinet resignation(s) tonight or tomorrow?
They've come to an arrangement I guess where BoJo will announce his departure this evening.....
The problem is now with Boris is that he's swimming with the sharks (his colleagues) without any protection....
'His' being Mr C?
Ovviamente.....
Boris likes going to Chequers too much to throw in the towel....
An Italian word which means what it looks like, for once. I got very angry with the Biblioteca di San Marco in Florence once because I asked them for a copy of a manuscript and they sent me back something called a preventivo, which sounds gratuitously uncooperative. Eventually I looked it up...
Comments
If people have a problem with him (which clearly many do), then they should address Mr Johnson, the elected politician who appointed him to his role.
Screaming outside his house on a Sunday, when he is known to be at work but his wife and child are likely home, is really not playing the game.
To be fair, it took info that he attended the hat eugenics conference to get him to resign.
That said I still think he should stay.
Still, pretty earth-shattering as a scandal, I am sure you'll agree.
Gives me no pleasure to say this, Philip, but I'm afraid it's true. I know you won't apologize on here but I do hope you reflect.
Cummings however definitely broke The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020 unless his parents are under 70 years old - For those hard of thinking they are not under 70 years old.
Horrible narrow minded people.
Scum actually.
Ooh you're such a big man ...
Whole story kind of fell flat on it’s face though. "Labour leader cares about donkeys" really didn’t split the membership in the way they hoped.
Wonder where they are? Durham seems too obvious.
It is a liberal philosophy to believe everyone can make their own choices in good faith for their own children.
Either that or someone else with a field who knew Starmer's elderly parents took them on.
It was definitely one or the other.
Massively off topic but a change of Opposition leader in New Zealand with the ousting of National leader Simon Bridges and his replacement by Todd Muller.
The latest Colmar Brunton poll published on Thursday might well have been the last straw for Bridges as it showed a five point National lead (46-41) having turned into a 30-point Labour lead (59-29) via a 17.5% swing to Jacinda Ardern's party.
As we've seen elsewhere, incumbent Governments have done very well out of covid-19 and Ardern is no exception. The poll numbers suggested Ardern's Labour Party would win 79 of the 120 seats in the NZ Parliament with National on 38 and the Greens on 3 leaving Labour with a majority of 38.
That poll and the implication of serious backbench losses probably tipped the balance agsinst Bridges. Muller now has less than four months to restore National fortunes before the September election.
"Cummings had to make a proper sacrifice to take the job; Johnson talked him into cancelling a surgical procedure, serious enough to warrant general anaesthetic, which had been scheduled for three days later, when Johnson formally became PM.
He promised his wife, the journalist Mary Wakefield, that he would reschedule the operation for the week following 31 October and only after the op would he then discuss with Johnson what – if any – his future role in government would be.
I cannot judge whether Cummings will return after the surgery. I understand it depends on his health, the views of his wife, and whether he and Johnson can agree on a long-term role that would suit them both. Pimpernel-like, he may vanish again."
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/dominic-cummings-won-t-blink-over-no-deal-but-will-boris-johnson-
Horrible people - Lead by Donkeys - run by cnuts.
Still, we don't get Glenda Jackson tweeting support of Dan Hodges' nonsense, do we?
I'd love to know what Dom's and BoJo's deal is....after all BoJo has the moral scruples of of Fred West and would throw his child under a train to save his skin...
The only thing that BoJo is loyal to is BoJo....so keeping on Dom suggests something is amiss at Number 10....
What says you Mr Thompson?
How on earth can you win at a casino apart from blackjack or poker?
Completely out of touch. Nobody in real Britain thinks there needs to be an investigation because everyone who followed the rules to the letter knows he broke them, and he broke them really, really badly.
If they think that old tactic will work, they've got another thing coming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wioh5qUj7fM
I rather imagine that Glenda doesn't do Twitter. I hope so anyway.
Does it mean no responsibility for side effects ?
It is something worrying though because any rational relationship would have led to Cummings resigning and coming back in 6 months or so....
https://twitter.com/gordonguthrie/status/1264568026185203714?s=20
I would prefer to be called a see you next Tuesday....
With his personal trust rating, in YouGov’s January poll, at only 8% and support for his party leader’s Coronavirus unlocking strategy at only 9% in May, Jackson Carlaw must now deal with two damning exposures of how his party’s handling of the crisis has clearly brought the deadly virus to Scotland in the early days of the outbreak.
https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2020/05/23/scottish-conservatives-fail-to-defend-scotland-against-pandemic/
But he can get out of the jam?
The problem is now with Boris is that he's swimming with the sharks (his colleagues) without any protection....
You don't get the absurdly cheap steak and chips online, though, do you?
The UK has a scheme for no-faulty compensation paid by the state in vaccine damage cases:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_Damage_Payment
Only applies to a list of named vaccines, not including Covid-19 vaccines. I wonder whether this will be added to the list.
Boris likes going to Chequers too much to throw in the towel....
*a graceful tribute to your new avatar!
He has either to step up to the plate or take paternity leave
I am speaking to you from the cabinet room at 10 Downing Street. This morning the Transport Secretary informed the media that unless they withdrew their scurrilous lies about Saint Dominic of Cummings, a state of war would exist between us.
I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with Germany.”
If a deal is done between Boris and DC for him to stay on, can we expect Cabinet resignation(s) tonight or tomorrow?
I am a Man City fan...when I see Aguero sitting on the bench...I'm never that bothered if we go down the odd goal....
https://twitter.com/theangelremiel/status/1264574259873173504
"Americans are being warned to be wary of hungry rats who have become angry due to a lack of their usual restaurant food to feast on during the coronavirus lockdown.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said there had been "reports of unusual or aggressive rodent behaviour" due to a decrease in food available, "especially in dense commercial areas"."
Hah.