Just off phone from Mother, a pensioner in her 60s of no particular political affiliation. Cummingsgate was mentioned. She remarked that Johnson had made "an enormous gaffe," that all the goodwill he might have earned from having to manage the pandemic, and from having been ill with the virus to boot, had "all been washed away," and that it was "a total debacle."
I couldn't find much with which to disagree.
I think the experience of most people phoning apolitical, elderly relatives this weekend will be exactly the same.
I called mine a short while ago, and they were seething - barely able to articulate their anger and contempt.
As I said on here right at the beginning, Middle England is fucking steaming over this in way not seen for years.
And next week? And next month? And next year? Four years from now? How long exactly are they going to 'steam'?
Why are so many people so short-termist in their thinking? Emotions simply don't burn that hot for that long - it's bloody exhausting.
My other half, who is unaccountably convinced that I am a fan of Boris Johnson, has spent 10 minutes ranting at me about Dominic Cummings. In vain I’ve tried to tell him I agree with him.
@CorrectHorseBattery will be delighted to hear that he’s vowed to vote hard left from here on. I have my doubts, I have to say.
Back to the pandemic, and looking at my favourite graph, the number of new hospital admissions looks to be flatlining. Indicating an R of 1. And now there are plans to ease restrictions further.
My other half, who is unaccountably convinced that I am a fan of Boris Johnson, has spent 10 minutes ranting at me about Dominic Cummings. In vain I’ve tried to tell him I agree with him.
@CorrectHorseBattery will be delighted to hear that he’s vowed to vote hard left from here on. I have my doubts, I have to say.
Just off phone from Mother, a pensioner in her 60s of no particular political affiliation. Cummingsgate was mentioned. She remarked that Johnson had made "an enormous gaffe," that all the goodwill he might have earned from having to manage the pandemic, and from having been ill with the virus to boot, had "all been washed away," and that it was "a total debacle."
I couldn't find much with which to disagree.
I think the experience of most people phoning apolitical, elderly relatives this weekend will be exactly the same.
I called mine a short while ago, and they were seething - barely able to articulate their anger and contempt.
As I said on here right at the beginning, Middle England is fucking steaming over this in way not seen for years.
And next week? And next month? And next year? Four years from now? How long exactly are they going to 'steam'?
Why are so many people so short-termist in their thinking? Emotions simply don't burn that hot for that long - it's bloody exhausting.
That's assuming that Boris will handle things better from now on, is that likely? Brexit won't help.
Somewhere in Britain there is a couple with a young child.
One of the couple got Covid symptoms. Unsure what to do they rang for official advice and were told in no uncertain terms they could not travel to near their parents under threat of prosecution.
The Lab backroom team are searching for that couple.
I dont know why (maybe its EDG's good attempt at a song below!) but I read that to the sound of the A-team intro .
Just off phone from Mother, a pensioner in her 60s of no particular political affiliation. Cummingsgate was mentioned. She remarked that Johnson had made "an enormous gaffe," that all the goodwill he might have earned from having to manage the pandemic, and from having been ill with the virus to boot, had "all been washed away," and that it was "a total debacle."
I couldn't find much with which to disagree.
I think the experience of most people phoning apolitical, elderly relatives this weekend will be exactly the same.
I called mine a short while ago, and they were seething - barely able to articulate their anger and contempt.
As I said on here right at the beginning, Middle England is fucking steaming over this in way not seen for years.
And next week? And next month? And next year? Four years from now? How long exactly are they going to 'steam'?
Why are so many people so short-termist in their thinking? Emotions simply don't burn that hot for that long - it's bloody exhausting.
By the time 1997 came around, 16 September 1992 was long in the past. But it did most of the damage that the Tories could not recover from. Had Major been replaced then maybe it wouldn't have been such a bad defeat, but who knows.
Right now the Tories are doing a lot of damage to themselves as long as Boris is PM. Even if Cummings is sacked in the next day or so, it's too late.
So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.
@DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.
Real respect for you and some of the PB Tories. Clearly misjudged some of you.
He was in it for 8 years, to be a true PB Tory you must be so for life, not just for Christmas
Pathetic garbage
Well you voted for Blair twice.
You are a Tory leaning floating voter, not really a PB Tory
I think that comment about Big G does you no credit. He is clearly a principled man who (I hope he takes this the right way) was involved in your party before you were born. Given you are no huge fan of Cummings yourself a little more humility and understanding would not go amiss.
BigG called my post "pathetic garbage" if he responds aggressively I will respond in kimd with no apology. I have campaigned for the Tories for 23 years and never voted Labour unlike BigG. Simple statement of fact
And I have over 50 years campaigning and long before you were born
In your defence I think you have always had your doubts about Johnson's fitness to be PM.
I did not cast my member vote for him but to be fair, apart from brexit, he is a liberal one nation consevative but covid has changed him and he is a shadow of his former self
For his own sake and the nations he needs to consider his position after today's unforgiveable decision
Are you being tempted away by that silvery-haired charmer and his dulcet (mono)tones BigG?
I suppose if all this Cummings fallout forces Boris to relax the shutdown then it will be all worth it! Maybe its all part of a plot to get poeple to "disobey" lockdown when thats what the government want people now to do but cannot say
Contact tracing is dead before they've started it now. Only the most conscientious people will stay at home during the summer because they are a contact of someone who might have the virus, when the example has been set that it's not important by those at the very top.
And that will make it harder to keep the virus under control and we'll all suffer as a result.
So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.
@DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.
Real respect for you and some of the PB Tories. Clearly misjudged some of you.
He was in it for 8 years, to be a true PB Tory you must be so for life, not just for Christmas
Pathetic garbage
Well you voted for Blair twice.
You are a Tory leaning floating voter, not really a PB Tory
I think that comment about Big G does you no credit. He is clearly a principled man who (I hope he takes this the right way) was involved in your party before you were born. Given you are no huge fan of Cummings yourself a little more humility and understanding would not go amiss.
BigG called my post "pathetic garbage" if he responds aggressively I will respond in kimd with no apology. I have campaigned for the Tories for 23 years and never voted Labour unlike BigG. Simple statement of fact
And I have over 50 years campaigning and long before you were born
In your defence I think you have always had your doubts about Johnson's fitness to be PM.
I did not cast my member vote for him but to be fair, apart from brexit, he is a liberal one nation consevative but covid has changed him and he is a shadow of his former self
For his own sake and the nations he needs to consider his position after today's unforgiveable decision
I thought that Hunts support for hunting pushed you to vote for Johnson.
Can anybody name a country where there has been a second spike or return to lock down?
A few areas that were initially very mildly affected, like Singapore, and parts of China like Harbin.
Yes. There has been a second wave in new cases in Iran since restrictions were reduced a few weeks ago. This second wave may just have started to level off in the last few days. However, there has not been a corresponding second wave in new deaths, which are still below half of what they were at the peak. There has been a increase over the last 10 days of 10 more deaths per day which is small in proportional terms.
Big moment this morning - Tony Hall refused to answer Marr question re whether BBC will further delay implementation of over 75s TV Licence.
Currently scheduled for 1st August. So bills would need to go out in early July.
Can just imagine how well it is going to go down for millions of over 75s to get a bill for £157.50 for something they previously got for free - whilst locked down in virus crisis.
It could have been. If Cummings had apologised and resigned or was sacked.
Trashing the government's guidelines in order to save the skin of a "non elected metropolitan elite bureaucrat" makes it a Public Health story in the middle of a nasty pandemic which has killed tens of thousands and affected the lives of everyone in the country, now and for the foreseeable future - I doubt there's anything less "bubble" than that.
We'll probably find out next that Cummings has a taste for bat stew.
You're going to be sooo disappointed when you wake up from all your frothing and find that you're still years away from having even a shot at power.
Maybe take up a hobby to pass the time? Knitting? I hear knitting's good.
For some people it is not about who is in power, it is what is principled and right. I am not a Tory supporter as you know, so you may discount my view, but there are plenty of Conservatives on here, people who I disagree with on most issues but who I have no doubt support what they think is for the best of the country, that are just as dismayed by this turn of events. You need to start thinking about repairing the cracks on your own side before you engage in any more of your “yah, boo, sucks” sneering.
What for? I'm not their mother. They can vote for whomever they please - and I'm confident that in 4 years they will vote based on the issues of the day and their own best interests, not a few days of rage in mid-2020.
As for 'principled and right', what exactly does that have to do with politics? Maybe it's just because I find moralizing to be deeply tedious in all areas of life, but I have simply never viewed politics as primarily a moral endeavour. Politics is above all about power, and people who don't see that tend not to win it.
Just off phone from Mother, a pensioner in her 60s of no particular political affiliation. Cummingsgate was mentioned. She remarked that Johnson had made "an enormous gaffe," that all the goodwill he might have earned from having to manage the pandemic, and from having been ill with the virus to boot, had "all been washed away," and that it was "a total debacle."
I couldn't find much with which to disagree.
I think the experience of most people phoning apolitical, elderly relatives this weekend will be exactly the same.
I called mine a short while ago, and they were seething - barely able to articulate their anger and contempt.
As I said on here right at the beginning, Middle England is fucking steaming over this in way not seen for years.
And next week? And next month? And next year? Four years from now? How long exactly are they going to 'steam'?
Why are so many people so short-termist in their thinking? Emotions simply don't burn that hot for that long - it's bloody exhausting.
The Tories lost the 1997 election on 16 September 1992.
Today they lost the 2024 election - while things will change the likelihood that people will turn up and vote Tory in 2024 has dropped a bit. In the privacy of the voting booth, they will think back and remember why they weren't planning to.
Contact tracing is dead before they've started it now. Only the most conscientious people will stay at home during the summer because they are a contact of someone who might have the virus, when the example has been set that it's not important by those at the very top.
And that will make it harder to keep the virus under control and we'll all suffer as a result.
An absolute disaster.
The virus is fizzling out anyway , if it helps people to get out and working then it will do some good. Don't think its deliberate plot of Cummings/Boris but it could well work to get the county back off this now too prolonged lockdown
Well, after reading the comments on here, I went to the trouble of listening to Johnson's defence of Cummings.
I wonder if Johnson wrote that piece of garbage that he read out or if Cummings did? A understandable reaction for a parent and father? Maybe so, no one really disputes that, but it was completely contrary to official guidance.
I notice that Boris never mentioned that little inconvenient fact.
If you didn't go to the funeral of a loved one, if you didn't go and hold the hand of your dying parents because you were following what you thought were rules which applied to everyone. then the Tories think that you're a pretty crap son or daughter because you didn't have the wit to follow your "instincts".
Is this the most disgusting thing any Prime Minister has ever come out with?
I suppose if all this Cummings fallout forces Boris to relax the shutdown then it will be all worth it! Maybe its all part of a plot to get poeple to "disobey" lockdown when thats what the government want people now to do but cannot say
I did post a joke that this was all a Cummings' game theory plan to get UK back to work a couple of days ago.
If you didn't go to the funeral of a loved one, if you didn't go and hold the hand of your dying parents because you were following what you thought were rules which applied to everyone. then the Tories think that you're a pretty crap son or daughter because you didn't have the wit to follow your "instincts".
Is this the most disgusting thing any Prime Minister has ever come out with?
Jokes around here today have been along the "I can do whatever I think is right" perspective.
When people starting laughing at the govt, you know it is in trouble.
Unfortunately, the witness who reported him seems to be based it on the misconception that he should have self-isolated for 14 days.
Nope the witness who reported him was wondering why he had driven 30 miles (or 260 miles) to wander around a closed castle. They are plenty of nice country parks on the way from Durham and even more on the way from London.
The thing is if Big Dom had gone straight away, most people don't know or care who he is. Yes the Guardian and twitter would have been very excited that they got the boogeyman, but it would have no more impact on Boris or government than Prof Pantsdown incident. Especially as Boris was very ill at the time.
That's the utterly inexplicable bit for me. Six months on the shelf and Doms back.
Absolutely no harm.
Why do this except to show you can?
But it can't be inexplicable for you because you not only called it but put your money down. Dom no go.
As soon as he didn't immediately go that night /immediatly next morning it was straight to the cash machine.
So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.
@DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.
Real respect for you and some of the PB Tories. Clearly misjudged some of you.
He was in it for 8 years, to be a true PB Tory you must be so for life, not just for Christmas
Pathetic garbage
Well you voted for Blair twice.
You are a Tory leaning floating voter, not really a PB Tory
I think that comment about Big G does you no credit. He is clearly a principled man who (I hope he takes this the right way) was involved in your party before you were born. Given you are no huge fan of Cummings yourself a little more humility and understanding would not go amiss.
BigG called my post "pathetic garbage" if he responds aggressively I will respond in kimd with no apology. I have campaigned for the Tories for 23 years and never voted Labour unlike BigG. Simple statement of fact
And I have over 50 years campaigning and long before you were born
In your defence I think you have always had your doubts about Johnson's fitness to be PM.
I did not cast my member vote for him but to be fair, apart from brexit, he is a liberal one nation consevative but covid has changed him and he is a shadow of his former self
For his own sake and the nations he needs to consider his position after today's unforgiveable decision
He always was a self-motivated, duplicitous chancer. He shafted Cameron, May and the country. Today he was sub-Corbyn useless.
You're going to be sooo disappointed when you wake up from all your frothing and find that you're still years away from having even a shot at power.
Maybe take up a hobby to pass the time? Knitting? I hear knitting's good.
For some people it is not about who is in power, it is what is principled and right. I am not a Tory supporter as you know, so you may discount my view, but there are plenty of Conservatives on here, people who I disagree with on most issues but who I have no doubt support what they think is for the best of the country, that are just as dismayed by this turn of events. You need to start thinking about repairing the cracks on your own side before you engage in any more of your “yah, boo, sucks” sneering.
What for? I'm not their mother. They can vote for whomever they please - and I'm confident that in 4 years they will vote based on the issues of the day and their own best interests, not a few days of rage in mid-2020.
As for 'principled and right', what exactly does that have to do with politics? Maybe it's just because I find moralizing to be deeply tedious in all areas of life, but I have simply never viewed politics as primarily a moral endeavour. Politics is above all about power, and people who don't see that tend not to win it.
It’s good to know that being principled and right has nothing to do with politics, and it’s all about power. I will take that away and reflect.
So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.
@DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.
Real respect for you and some of the PB Tories. Clearly misjudged some of you.
He was in it for 8 years, to be a true PB Tory you must be so for life, not just for Christmas
Pathetic garbage
Well you voted for Blair twice.
You are a Tory leaning floating voter, not really a PB Tory
I think that comment about Big G does you no credit. He is clearly a principled man who (I hope he takes this the right way) was involved in your party before you were born. Given you are no huge fan of Cummings yourself a little more humility and understanding would not go amiss.
BigG called my post "pathetic garbage" if he responds aggressively I will respond in kimd with no apology. I have campaigned for the Tories for 23 years and never voted Labour unlike BigG. Simple statement of fact
And I have over 50 years campaigning and long before you were born
In your defence I think you have always had your doubts about Johnson's fitness to be PM.
I did not cast my member vote for him but to be fair, apart from brexit, he is a liberal one nation consevative but covid has changed him and he is a shadow of his former self
For his own sake and the nations he needs to consider his position after today's unforgiveable decision
I thought that Hunts support for hunting pushed you to vote for Johnson.
I did not vote for Hunt either
Yes Big G. You have always been a big fan of foxhunting. It's ridiculous for people not to appreciate that.
So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.
@DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.
Real respect for you and some of the PB Tories. Clearly misjudged some of you.
He was in it for 8 years, to be a true PB Tory you must be so for life, not just for Christmas
Pathetic garbage
Well you voted for Blair twice.
You are a Tory leaning floating voter, not really a PB Tory
I think that comment about Big G does you no credit. He is clearly a principled man who (I hope he takes this the right way) was involved in your party before you were born. Given you are no huge fan of Cummings yourself a little more humility and understanding would not go amiss.
BigG called my post "pathetic garbage" if he responds aggressively I will respond in kimd with no apology. I have campaigned for the Tories for 23 years and never voted Labour unlike BigG. Simple statement of fact
And I have over 50 years campaigning and long before you were born
In your defence I think you have always had your doubts about Johnson's fitness to be PM.
I did not cast my member vote for him but to be fair, apart from brexit, he is a liberal one nation consevative but covid has changed him and he is a shadow of his former self
For his own sake and the nations he needs to consider his position after today's unforgiveable decision
Are you being tempted away by that silvery-haired charmer and his dulcet (mono)tones BigG?
Not really but he does seem to have removed toxic Corbyn from relevance
Tonight I am ashamed and finding it hard to comprehend how Boris could throw away his Premiership in such a crass and idiotic manner
So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.
@DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.
Real respect for you and some of the PB Tories. Clearly misjudged some of you.
He was in it for 8 years, to be a true PB Tory you must be so for life, not just for Christmas
Pathetic garbage
Well you voted for Blair twice.
You are a Tory leaning floating voter, not really a PB Tory
I think that comment about Big G does you no credit. He is clearly a principled man who (I hope he takes this the right way) was involved in your party before you were born. Given you are no huge fan of Cummings yourself a little more humility and understanding would not go amiss.
BigG called my post "pathetic garbage" if he responds aggressively I will respond in kimd with no apology. I have campaigned for the Tories for 23 years and never voted Labour unlike BigG. Simple statement of fact
And I have over 50 years campaigning and long before you were born
In your defence I think you have always had your doubts about Johnson's fitness to be PM.
I did not cast my member vote for him but to be fair, apart from brexit, he is a liberal one nation consevative but covid has changed him and he is a shadow of his former self
For his own sake and the nations he needs to consider his position after today's unforgiveable decision
I thought that Hunts support for hunting pushed you to vote for Johnson.
I did not vote for Hunt either
No - you voted for neither then backed Boris to the hilt. It has not been your finest hour.....
You're going to be sooo disappointed when you wake up from all your frothing and find that you're still years away from having even a shot at power.
Maybe take up a hobby to pass the time? Knitting? I hear knitting's good.
For some people it is not about who is in power, it is what is principled and right. I am not a Tory supporter as you know, so you may discount my view, but there are plenty of Conservatives on here, people who I disagree with on most issues but who I have no doubt support what they think is for the best of the country, that are just as dismayed by this turn of events. You need to start thinking about repairing the cracks on your own side before you engage in any more of your “yah, boo, sucks” sneering.
What for? I'm not their mother. They can vote for whomever they please - and I'm confident that in 4 years they will vote based on the issues of the day and their own best interests, not a few days of rage in mid-2020.
As for 'principled and right', what exactly does that have to do with politics? Maybe it's just because I find moralizing to be deeply tedious in all areas of life, but I have simply never viewed politics as primarily a moral endeavour. Politics is above all about power, and people who don't see that tend not to win it.
So, Bluey, given his form on this, do you have full confidence that Boris will ace all future issues as and when they arise?
Just off phone from Mother, a pensioner in her 60s of no particular political affiliation. Cummingsgate was mentioned. She remarked that Johnson had made "an enormous gaffe," that all the goodwill he might have earned from having to manage the pandemic, and from having been ill with the virus to boot, had "all been washed away," and that it was "a total debacle."
I couldn't find much with which to disagree.
I think the experience of most people phoning apolitical, elderly relatives this weekend will be exactly the same.
I called mine a short while ago, and they were seething - barely able to articulate their anger and contempt.
As I said on here right at the beginning, Middle England is fucking steaming over this in way not seen for years.
And next week? And next month? And next year? Four years from now? How long exactly are they going to 'steam'?
Why are so many people so short-termist in their thinking? Emotions simply don't burn that hot for that long - it's bloody exhausting.
By the time 1997 came around, 16 September 1992 was long in the past. But it did most of the damage that the Tories could not recover from. Had Major been replaced then maybe it wouldn't have been such a bad defeat, but who knows.
Right now the Tories are doing a lot of damage to themselves as long as Boris is PM. Even if Cummings is sacked in the next day or so, it's too late.
Exactly.
And this isn't about money. It's about people missing their own Dad's fucking funerals etc etc.
So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.
@DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.
Real respect for you and some of the PB Tories. Clearly misjudged some of you.
He was in it for 8 years, to be a true PB Tory you must be so for life, not just for Christmas
Pathetic garbage
Well you voted for Blair twice.
You are a Tory leaning floating voter, not really a PB Tory
I think that comment about Big G does you no credit. He is clearly a principled man who (I hope he takes this the right way) was involved in your party before you were born. Given you are no huge fan of Cummings yourself a little more humility and understanding would not go amiss.
BigG called my post "pathetic garbage" if he responds aggressively I will respond in kimd with no apology. I have campaigned for the Tories for 23 years and never voted Labour unlike BigG. Simple statement of fact
And I have over 50 years campaigning and long before you were born
In your defence I think you have always had your doubts about Johnson's fitness to be PM.
I did not cast my member vote for him but to be fair, apart from brexit, he is a liberal one nation consevative but covid has changed him and he is a shadow of his former self
For his own sake and the nations he needs to consider his position after today's unforgiveable decision
I thought that Hunts support for hunting pushed you to vote for Johnson.
I did not vote for Hunt either
No - you voted for neither then backed Boris to the hilt. It has not been your finest hour.....
So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.
@DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.
Real respect for you and some of the PB Tories. Clearly misjudged some of you.
He was in it for 8 years, to be a true PB Tory you must be so for life, not just for Christmas
Pathetic garbage
Well you voted for Blair twice.
You are a Tory leaning floating voter, not really a PB Tory
I think that comment about Big G does you no credit. He is clearly a principled man who (I hope he takes this the right way) was involved in your party before you were born. Given you are no huge fan of Cummings yourself a little more humility and understanding would not go amiss.
BigG called my post "pathetic garbage" if he responds aggressively I will respond in kimd with no apology. I have campaigned for the Tories for 23 years and never voted Labour unlike BigG. Simple statement of fact
And I have over 50 years campaigning and long before you were born
In your defence I think you have always had your doubts about Johnson's fitness to be PM.
I did not cast my member vote for him but to be fair, apart from brexit, he is a liberal one nation consevative but covid has changed him and he is a shadow of his former self
For his own sake and the nations he needs to consider his position after today's unforgiveable decision
I thought that Hunts support for hunting pushed you to vote for Johnson.
I did not vote for Hunt either
Yes Big G. You have always been a big fan of foxhunting. It's ridiculous for people not to appreciate that.
Contact tracing is dead before they've started it now. Only the most conscientious people will stay at home during the summer because they are a contact of someone who might have the virus, when the example has been set that it's not important by those at the very top.
And that will make it harder to keep the virus under control and we'll all suffer as a result.
An absolute disaster.
The virus is fizzling out anyway , if it helps people to get out and working then it will do some good. Don't think its deliberate plot of Cummings/Boris but it could well work to get the county back off this now too prolonged lockdown
What is causing the virus to fizzle out in your opinion? Has it mutated? Or maybe we were doing the right thing two weeks ago. If you're wrong and we stop doing the right thing, we'll find out in a fortnight whether it has fizzled out or not.
Can anybody name a country where there has been a second spike or return to lock down?
A few areas that were initially very mildly affected, like Singapore, and parts of China like Harbin.
Yes. There has been a second wave in new cases in Iran since restrictions were reduced a few weeks ago. This second wave may just have started to level off in the last few days. However, there has not been a corresponding second wave in new deaths, which are still below half of what they were at the peak. There has been a increase over the last 10 days of 10 more deaths per day which is small in proportional terms.
There's no mystery about any of this, is there?
If R rises above 1, then there will be a second wave. And the only way it will stop growing is if either restrictions are imposed to take it back below 1, or enough people are infected that the susceptible fraction of the population drops below 1/R.
There's no magic way of avoiding a second wave, just because we've had the first one.
If you didn't go to the funeral of a loved one, if you didn't go and hold the hand of your dying parents because you were following what you thought were rules which applied to everyone. then the Tories think that you're a pretty crap son or daughter because you didn't have the wit to follow your "instincts".
Is this the most disgusting thing any Prime Minister has ever come out with?
Jokes around here today have been along the "I can do whatever I think is right" perspective.
When people starting laughing at the govt, you know it is in trouble.
Yes, take all those Thatcher sketches on Spitting Image. Only 10 years later the Tories were out of power. Boom.
So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.
@DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.
Real respect for you and some of the PB Tories. Clearly misjudged some of you.
He was in it for 8 years, to be a true PB Tory you must be so for life, not just for Christmas
Pathetic garbage
Well you voted for Blair twice.
You are a Tory leaning floating voter, not really a PB Tory
I think that comment about Big G does you no credit. He is clearly a principled man who (I hope he takes this the right way) was involved in your party before you were born. Given you are no huge fan of Cummings yourself a little more humility and understanding would not go amiss.
BigG called my post "pathetic garbage" if he responds aggressively I will respond in kimd with no apology. I have campaigned for the Tories for 23 years and never voted Labour unlike BigG. Simple statement of fact
And I have over 50 years campaigning and long before you were born
In your defence I think you have always had your doubts about Johnson's fitness to be PM.
I did not cast my member vote for him but to be fair, apart from brexit, he is a liberal one nation consevative but covid has changed him and he is a shadow of his former self
For his own sake and the nations he needs to consider his position after today's unforgiveable decision
I thought that Hunts support for hunting pushed you to vote for Johnson.
I did not vote for Hunt either
No - you voted for neither then backed Boris to the hilt. It has not been your finest hour.....
Neither yours to be honest
Really? I have never thought that Boris would make a good PM, but neither have I done a volte face after supposedly tearing up my membership card.
It is a weird situation, fresh from a big electoral victory and riding high in the polls but you sense that BoJo is finished. Paradoxically the moral tainting plus the clear demonstration that he is not up to the job combine to make his early ousting likely and that is possibly not good news for Labour. Limping ineptly on with diminished authority would suit their electoral purposes. Depending on the replacement it might be a good thing for the country in current crisis.
Just off phone from Mother, a pensioner in her 60s of no particular political affiliation. Cummingsgate was mentioned. She remarked that Johnson had made "an enormous gaffe," that all the goodwill he might have earned from having to manage the pandemic, and from having been ill with the virus to boot, had "all been washed away," and that it was "a total debacle."
I couldn't find much with which to disagree.
I think the experience of most people phoning apolitical, elderly relatives this weekend will be exactly the same.
I called mine a short while ago, and they were seething - barely able to articulate their anger and contempt.
As I said on here right at the beginning, Middle England is fucking steaming over this in way not seen for years.
And next week? And next month? And next year? Four years from now? How long exactly are they going to 'steam'?
Why are so many people so short-termist in their thinking? Emotions simply don't burn that hot for that long - it's bloody exhausting.
By the time 1997 came around, 16 September 1992 was long in the past. But it did most of the damage that the Tories could not recover from. Had Major been replaced then maybe it wouldn't have been such a bad defeat, but who knows.
Right now the Tories are doing a lot of damage to themselves as long as Boris is PM. Even if Cummings is sacked in the next day or so, it's too late.
Exactly.
And this isn't about money. It's about people missing their own Dad's fucking funerals etc etc.
And then being told by a bumbling liar that they are "confused" about the issue!
It is a weird situation, fresh from a big electoral victory and riding high in the polls but you sense that BoJo is finished. Paradoxically the moral tainting plus the clear demonstration that he is not up to the job combine to make his early ousting likely and that is possibly not good news for Labour. Limping ineptly on with diminished authority would suit their electoral purposes. Depending on the replacement it might be a good thing for the country in current crisis.
A famous political commentator, I forget who - maybe Tony Howard, said that being promoted PM is like an X-ray on the soul.
Contact tracing is dead before they've started it now. Only the most conscientious people will stay at home during the summer because they are a contact of someone who might have the virus, when the example has been set that it's not important by those at the very top.
And that will make it harder to keep the virus under control and we'll all suffer as a result.
An absolute disaster.
The virus is fizzling out anyway , if it helps people to get out and working then it will do some good. Don't think its deliberate plot of Cummings/Boris but it could well work to get the county back off this now too prolonged lockdown
I hope you're right that the virus is fizzling out, but I don't see any evidence for that.
It is a weird situation, fresh from a big electoral victory and riding high in the polls but you sense that BoJo is finished. Paradoxically the moral tainting plus the clear demonstration that he is not up to the job combine to make his early ousting likely and that is possibly not good news for Labour. Limping ineptly on with diminished authority would suit their electoral purposes. Depending on the replacement it might be a good thing for the country in current crisis.
Who can take over from here? He has surrounded himself with a cabinet of incompetents and pushed out the likes of Javid, Hunt, Ellwood, Clark. Thats why Cummings is seen as so vital, he effectively does the cabinets work whilst they play on TV.
Sunak is probably the best of the plausible runners.
So that's my 8 year run in the Conservative party coming to an end.
@DavidL, @Big_G_NorthWales and other members I hope you do the same. I can't be a member of this party while Boris is leader. His lack of judgement here has been absolutely appalling. The ruling elite can't have a special set of exemptions to rules the rest of us live by, it's just not right.
Real respect for you and some of the PB Tories. Clearly misjudged some of you.
He was in it for 8 years, to be a true PB Tory you must be so for life, not just for Christmas
Pathetic garbage
Well you voted for Blair twice.
You are a Tory leaning floating voter, not really a PB Tory
I think that comment about Big G does you no credit. He is clearly a principled man who (I hope he takes this the right way) was involved in your party before you were born. Given you are no huge fan of Cummings yourself a little more humility and understanding would not go amiss.
BigG called my post "pathetic garbage" if he responds aggressively I will respond in kimd with no apology. I have campaigned for the Tories for 23 years and never voted Labour unlike BigG. Simple statement of fact
And I have over 50 years campaigning and long before you were born
In your defence I think you have always had your doubts about Johnson's fitness to be PM.
I did not cast my member vote for him but to be fair, apart from brexit, he is a liberal one nation consevative but covid has changed him and he is a shadow of his former self
For his own sake and the nations he needs to consider his position after today's unforgiveable decision
I thought that Hunts support for hunting pushed you to vote for Johnson.
I did not vote for Hunt either
No - you voted for neither then backed Boris to the hilt. It has not been your finest hour.....
Neither yours to be honest
For what it's worth Mrs C. has been consistent with regard to her posting about Brexit, Corbyn and Johnson.
If you didn't go to the funeral of a loved one, if you didn't go and hold the hand of your dying parents because you were following what you thought were rules which applied to everyone. then the Tories think that you're a pretty crap son or daughter because you didn't have the wit to follow your "instincts".
Is this the most disgusting thing any Prime Minister has ever come out with?
Jokes around here today have been along the "I can do whatever I think is right" perspective.
When people starting laughing at the govt, you know it is in trouble.
Yes, take all those Thatcher sketches on Spitting Image. Only 10 years later the Tories were out of power. Boom.
The Spitting Image jokes underlined Thatcher’s power: “...and the vegetables Mam? Oh, they’ll have what I’m having." etc etc.
The thing is if Big Dom had gone straight away, most people don't know or care who he is. Yes the Guardian and twitter would have been very excited that they got the boogeyman, but it would have no more impact on Boris or government than Prof Pantsdown incident. Especially as Boris was very ill at the time.
That's the utterly inexplicable bit for me. Six months on the shelf and Doms back.
Absolutely no harm.
Why do this except to show you can?
But it can't be inexplicable for you because you not only called it but put your money down. Dom no go.
As soon as he didn't immediately go that night /immediatly next morning it was straight to the cash machine.
The week ahead will gradually stop being about Cummings and will be more about whether schools are really ready to re-open and whether parents are ready to allow their children to attend.
The Government and those wanting the lockdown to end will be on one side and on the other will be local authorities, teachers' unions, concerned parents, the Labour Party. The division will be clear and Cummings will become irrelevant.
Anecdata:
Mrs Capitano, who is a primary headteacher, emailed all her Reception/Year 1/Year 6 parents last week asking if they were planning to send their kids in.
Pretty clear divide. All the middle class parents said yes. Many of the working class parents said no.
There are interesting sociological discussions you could have about why this is (and we just have, over half a bottle of wine...), but in PB terms, the interesting thing is what this says about the Red Wall. If working class voters are keener to prolong lockdown, that doesn't suggest the Cummings escapade will play well in Red Wall seats.
IIRC Sean Fear made an interesting comment on this divide:
Middle class parents are more concerned about education of their children.
Working class parents are more concerned about safety of their children.
The irony in the current situation is that working class jobs are likely to be more at risk of covid.
That could only happen if the current government was regarded as a failure, a Starmer government was regarded as a failure and all current and potential parties were regarded as having nothing to offer.
Either Cummings goes soon, or BJ goes within months. The only time I can remember feeling such a deep sense of utter rage is when I heard about the News of the World tapping Milly Dowler's phone. And we know what happened to the News of the World. You can't cross a line with the British public like Cummings has and expect to survive. This isn't party politics or Leave Vs Remain. This is crossing a fundamental line of decent behaviour. Incredible they can't see this.
I forget the details but wasn’t the NoTW actually *not guilty*?
Comments
Why are so many people so short-termist in their thinking? Emotions simply don't burn that hot for that long - it's bloody exhausting.
@CorrectHorseBattery will be delighted to hear that he’s vowed to vote hard left from here on. I have my doubts, I have to say.
Brexit won't help.
Starmer studying this for next week.
Right now the Tories are doing a lot of damage to themselves as long as Boris is PM. Even if Cummings is sacked in the next day or so, it's too late.
Durham Constabulary will have put him up to doing this after the false accusations earlier this week.
And that will make it harder to keep the virus under control and we'll all suffer as a result.
An absolute disaster.
Currently scheduled for 1st August. So bills would need to go out in early July.
Can just imagine how well it is going to go down for millions of over 75s to get a bill for £157.50 for something they previously got for free - whilst locked down in virus crisis.
That's all gone now.
As for 'principled and right', what exactly does that have to do with politics? Maybe it's just because I find moralizing to be deeply tedious in all areas of life, but I have simply never viewed politics as primarily a moral endeavour. Politics is above all about power, and people who don't see that tend not to win it.
Today they lost the 2024 election - while things will change the likelihood that people will turn up and vote Tory in 2024 has dropped a bit. In the privacy of the voting booth, they will think back and remember why they weren't planning to.
I wonder if Johnson wrote that piece of garbage that he read out or if Cummings did? A understandable reaction for a parent and father? Maybe so, no one really disputes that, but it was completely contrary to official guidance.
I notice that Boris never mentioned that little inconvenient fact.
If you didn't go to the funeral of a loved one, if you didn't go and hold the hand of your dying parents because you were following what you thought were rules which applied to everyone. then the Tories think that you're a pretty crap son or daughter because you didn't have the wit to follow your "instincts".
Is this the most disgusting thing any Prime Minister has ever come out with?
When people starting laughing at the govt, you know it is in trouble.
Tonight I am ashamed and finding it hard to comprehend how Boris could throw away his Premiership in such a crass and idiotic manner
GE 2024 is wide open*
I thought Major was rather good in that clip.
And this isn't about money. It's about people missing their own Dad's fucking funerals etc etc.
I suspect that isn't the main breaking item tonight. Roll on 10pm.
I made the world's best witty riposte here earlier, about 'hat eugenics', and it didn't get a crumb of recognition.
But then neither did Van Gogh.
If you're wrong and we stop doing the right thing, we'll find out in a fortnight whether it has fizzled out or not.
If R rises above 1, then there will be a second wave. And the only way it will stop growing is if either restrictions are imposed to take it back below 1, or enough people are infected that the susceptible fraction of the population drops below 1/R.
There's no magic way of avoiding a second wave, just because we've had the first one.
May 2020: Government looks like the last days of Douglas-Home
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1264603869730025477
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1264604463303622656
Oh boy is that true tonight.
Weak, blustering, out of touch, lost.
Sunak is probably the best of the plausible runners.
Can’t see Johnson getting the same treatment.
Well done Alastair, enjoy your filthy lucre
Pecunia non olet
Middle class parents are more concerned about education of their children.
Working class parents are more concerned about safety of their children.
The irony in the current situation is that working class jobs are likely to be more at risk of covid.
A frightening scenario.
Most likely someone broke the law to confirm that
Charming
Driving 262 miles while ill with coronavirus, THAT’s breaking the law...
Boris Johnson failed to close down Cummings story
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52793376
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1264660059222573057