Labour civil war in full flow at least some compensation for a Johnson victory, just wish I’d backed my nightly prediction of Tory +60:majority and labour crash and burn!
Some head banging bampot on bbc1 saying that this election is clearly a rejection of pale male stale. She was as pale and stale as possible just also female.
Possibly, likely, counting my chickens here, but, now that it seems that Brexit will actually happen, it was probably for the good that the referendum result was tested to within an inch of its life before enactment, albeit in the free market kind of way it has rather than a second go at it. Leave won the referendum, then the only party willing to enact the result won a Majority in a subsequent GE with the policy in its manifesto. Double lock!
Yep. It is unambiguously the will of the people. We'll be out by 1st Feb.
Oven cooked.
Seems a bit overbaked to me but beggars cant be chooses
Labour know how to stage manage... in 1997 there was hoards of supporters cheering Blair, it looked like the "people had spoken", a scene almost from World War Z with crowds swarming Downing street. Yet, despite Boris securing more votes than Blair in 1997 we wont see those kind of scenes.
Polling suggests Johnson is not a popular PM, just fortunate to be facing the most unpopular LOTO ever. Blair was genuinely popular at the time.
Layla Moran is that rare breed of politician that does human, like Charlie Kennedy before her. Lib Dems could do worse at this point, and probably would given their very limited MP gene pool
Corbyn was very good at 'doing human'.
Moran is also better at doing leadership simultaneously.
Some head banging bampot on bbc1 saying that this election is clearly a rejection of pale male stale. She was as pale and stale as possible just also female.
She was just defending herself from the victim one-up-womanship of the harridan next to her.
The fishing question is iconic, even though it may not be "important" and the Cons will need to tread carefully for the sake of their seaside supporters. Like NI in the Withdrawal Agreement, it could prove to be an insurmountable point of disagreement for an FTA.
More people work at Harrods than in the British fishing industry.
Isn't that the problem? The same amount of fishing is happening, except that it's now EU boats making the money.
Less fishing is happening because there are less fish. We opened our waters to them as a quid pro quo for them opening their markets to all the fish we export to them (because most of the fish we catch is exported to the EU). The attention that fishing gets compared to financial services, whose access to EU markets is at risk and is worth hundreds or thousands times as much to our economy, is breathtaking.
I safely predict the EU will get their fish. There will no doubt be a tactful process to disguise that this fish is theirs by right of treaty.
Financial Services are already heading over the Channel through customer demand; UK pharmaceuticals are seeing a lot downsides to Brexit in terms of attracting international research talent, patent applicability, market positions and regulation; motor industry has very little reason to invest in the UK, although that's not only Brexit. These are big and lucrative industries and no-one is giving any thought at strategic level.
Labour know how to stage manage... in 1997 there was hoards of supporters cheering Blair, it looked like the "people had spoken", a scene almost from World War Z with crowds swarming Downing street. Yet, despite Boris securing more votes than Blair in 1997 we wont see those kind of scenes.
Because the Tories have been in power for 9 years while Labour had been out of power for twice that in 1997? I don't remember Blair declaring himself to be leading the People's Government in the style of a third world coup leader either (although I was so hung over that day I might have missed it).
Jo Swinson reckons she smashed the glass ceiling by becoming the first female Liberal Democrat party leader. Leading to broken glass falling on her ...
Really!!???
We've had two female Prime Ministers, two devolved female First Ministers and many female party leaders before her. No glass was broken.
To quote my mum (an LD, who did not vote LD this time) 'She wants to be Nicola Sturgeon, but doesn't have the ability'.
Sounds like my sibling. A former SDP and Lib Dem voter who voted SNP yesterday because “I don’t want the conservatives in”.
Jo Swinson proving that she's a metro liberal pro EU fanatic completely out of touch with the rest of us. It's not Boris Johnson that's the problem, Jo - it's YOU.
And in that regard, I've yet to see evidence that Layla Moran isn't identical. It's not that Layla isn't tainted by the Coalition and Swinson is; it's that they are both craven Europhiles. It is their far more recent actions that make the LibDems unpalatable. Moran was out on the stump selling the egregious notion of Revoke. That is a problem.
I got brickbats aplenty here for reporting back that Swinson was unpopular on the doorsteps. No, it wasn't my subjective dislike of the LibDems; no, it was not my natural misogyny shining through. It was telling it like it is.
Jo Swinson got stick as the "Mumsnet" candidate. Layla Moran would be worse. She's the sort of person who'd lecture you at length on where you are going wrong with your parenting, despite never having had a kid herself. I confidently predict that the LibDems will have an even more difficult issue in selling Moran to the voters rthan they had with Swinson.
The LibDems have got this arse about face. They need to stand back, work out what they are for, what their retail offer is. Then decide on the leader to sell that offer. They got plaudits from the IFS (I know, I know) for their Manifesto offering this time. They occupy the sensible economic space that Labour has vacated. Now, a new Labour leader will likely try to tack back to retake that lost ground. But the LibDems could have dug in by then. They can have a whole package of proposals, crafted whilst not in hock to union paymasters. But they need to look inwardly at what they offer the voters of North Devon and North Cornwall, not impose an unwanted European settlement on them whilst branding the voters inward-looking thick little Englanders. See their previous candidate in North Deon for details.
They should appoint a Parliamentary leader, but also a more senior Party leader who does not have to be in the House for that. Indeed, Jo Swinson could fulfil the role - if she were able to learn the reasons why they have just crashed and burned with the voters.
Labour know how to stage manage... in 1997 there was hoards of supporters cheering Blair, it looked like the "people had spoken", a scene almost from World War Z with crowds swarming Downing street. Yet, despite Boris securing more votes than Blair in 1997 we wont see those kind of scenes.
Polling suggests Johnson is not a popular PM, just fortunate to be facing the most unpopular LOTO ever. Blair was genuinely popular at the time.
The most unpopular LOTO filled a huge square in Bristol only days before this huge defeat...
Election polling have put together a list of targets for 2024. For Lab they now need a 10% swing on UNS to get a majority of 2. That includes a lot of gains in Scotland. Without any Scottish gains it would be 13% swing required
Amazing some of the seats Labour now need to win back in the north to recover. It looks like Bury North is the new most marginal constituency, only 105 votes between Lab/Con
The Lib Dem target list is interesting too, several seats previously thought of as solidly Conservative are now in their top 20. South Cambridgeshire at #8, Esher is #9, Wokingham #17. Cambridge is now down at 24.
Possibly, likely, counting my chickens here, but, now that it seems that Brexit will actually happen, it was probably for the good that the referendum result was tested to within an inch of its life before enactment, albeit in the free market kind of way it has rather than a second go at it. Leave won the referendum, then the only party willing to enact the result won a Majority in a subsequent GE with the policy in its manifesto. Double lock!
Yep. It is unambiguously the will of the people. We'll be out by 1st Feb.
Oven cooked.
Remain 52% Leave 48% but the war, stage one is over let’s hope WAIB gets proper scrutiny and is not rushed through, it can wait for the new year.
Labour know how to stage manage... in 1997 there was hoards of supporters cheering Blair, it looked like the "people had spoken", a scene almost from World War Z with crowds swarming Downing street. Yet, despite Boris securing more votes than Blair in 1997 we wont see those kind of scenes.
Because the Tories have been in power for 9 years while Labour had been out of power for twice that in 1997? I don't remember Blair declaring himself to be leading the People's Government in the style of a third world coup leader either (although I was so hung over that day I might have missed it).
He said that New Labour was the political arm of the British people, and other equally totalitarian words.
Labour know how to stage manage... in 1997 there was hoards of supporters cheering Blair, it looked like the "people had spoken", a scene almost from World War Z with crowds swarming Downing street. Yet, despite Boris securing more votes than Blair in 1997 we wont see those kind of scenes.
A new dawn has broken, has it not?
Boris' people aren't anywhere near London that's why !
Labour know how to stage manage... in 1997 there was hoards of supporters cheering Blair, it looked like the "people had spoken", a scene almost from World War Z with crowds swarming Downing street. Yet, despite Boris securing more votes than Blair in 1997 we wont see those kind of scenes.
Polling suggests Johnson is not a popular PM, just fortunate to be facing the most unpopular LOTO ever. Blair was genuinely popular at the time.
The most unpopular LOTO filled a huge square in Bristol only days before this huge defeat...
Unpopular as in disliked by most people rather than not very well liked by a few people.
Possibly, likely, counting my chickens here, but, now that it seems that Brexit will actually happen, it was probably for the good that the referendum result was tested to within an inch of its life before enactment, albeit in the free market kind of way it has rather than a second go at it. Leave won the referendum, then the only party willing to enact the result won a Majority in a subsequent GE with the policy in its manifesto. Double lock!
Yep. It is unambiguously the will of the people. We'll be out by 1st Feb.
Oven cooked.
Remain 52% Leave 48% but the war, stage one is over let’s hope WAIB gets proper scrutiny and is not rushed through, it can wait for the new year.
Yes Johnson loves scrutiny, that will definitely happen.
The LDs need to find a way of making their peace with leavers. They spent 3 years belittling half the population (e.g. exotic spresm) and can only attract a quarter of the other half.
I'm afraid it's more likely they'll think it's a wizard wheeze to become "the Back In Party." BIP. You heard it here first,
Many voters believe that the UK is better off in the EU. They aren't going to change their minds simply because Brexit is going ahead. A lot will depend on the consequences but the Tories had better hope that Brexit significantly improves the lives of the working class voters in the seats they gained last night.
It's easy to tell people Brexit is going to improve their lives, something else entirely to deliver it.
Some head banging bampot on bbc1 saying that this election is clearly a rejection of pale male stale. She was as pale and stale as possible just also female.
She was just defending herself from the victim one-up-womanship of the harridan next to her.
Cringe. Self interest masquerading as enlightened desire to help oppressed people.
Jo Swinson proving that she's a metro liberal pro EU fanatic completely out of touch with the rest of us. It's not Boris Johnson that's the problem, Jo - it's YOU.
And in that regard, I've yet to see evidence that Layla Moran isn't identical. It's not that Layla isn't tainted by the Coalition and Swinson is; it's that they are both craven Europhiles. It is their far more recent actions that make the LibDems unpalatable. Moran was out on the stump selling the egregious notion of Revoke. That is a problem.
I got brickbats aplenty here for reporting back that Swinson was unpopular on the doorsteps. No, it wasn't my subjective dislike of the LibDems; no, it was not my natural misogyny shining through. It was telling it like it is.
Jo Swinson got stick as the "Mumsnet" candidate. Layla Moran would be worse. She's the sort of person who'd lecture you at length on where you are going wrong with your parenting, despite never having had a kid herself. I confidently predict that the LibDems will have an even more difficult issue in selling Moran to the voters rthan they had with Swinson.
The LibDems have got this arse about face. They need to stand back, work out what they are for, what their retail offer is. Then decide on the leader to sell that offer. They got plaudits from the IFS (I know, I know) for their Manifesto offering this time. They occupy the sensible economic space that Labour has vacated. Now, a new Labour leader will likely try to tack back to retake that lost ground. But the LibDems could have dug in by then. They can have a whole package of proposals, crafted whilst not in hock to union paymasters. But they need to look inwardly at what they offer the voters of North Devon and North Cornwall, not impose an unwanted European settlement on them whilst branding the voters inward-looking thick little Englanders. See their previous candidate in North Deon for details.
They should appoint a Parliamentary leader, but also a more senior Party leader who does not have to be in the House for that. Indeed, Jo Swinson could fulfil the role - if she were able to learn the reasons why they have just crashed and burned with the voters.
Hi, first time I’ve posted, though I’ve been lurking around here for a considerable time!
I’m one of those who is desperately disappointed that the Tories won; to me it feels a bit like 1992, waking up feeling deflated and bruised. At least this time I was expecting it, as I have been firmly of the opinion that Labour under Corbyn and McDonnell were heading for disaster.
Although I (*see note) didn’t vote Labour yesterday, I would certainly have voted for a centre-left Labour party, primarily to stop the Conservatives. And whatever I might think of them, they are still the main opposition party, so I wanted to put some thoughts out in the aftermath of the December Debacle.
1. The Labour Brexit position Trying to ride two horses didn’t work. Maintaining ambiguity was supposed to help in Leave-voting areas, but it’s obvious from the votes for the Brexit Party in Labour seats that there were a substantial cadre of voters who didn’t believe a word of it, and for whom it was too important an issue to accept second best.
I am left wondering if a full-blooded commitment, whether to Leave or second referendum, would have been better: if to Leave, they might have held on to more of those Brexit-supporting Labour voters, while ceding Remainia to the LibDems and Greens, and hoping to work with those parties against the Tories post-election; if to Remain, then a more comprehensive Remain alliance might have given them more opportunity to attack the Tories in Remain areas to compensate for the losses in Leave areas – losses which I fully expected, although not on the scale they eventually came to. And speaking of the LibDems and Greens…
2. The Labour attitude to the LibDems and Greens
It didn’t take long last night – till Blyth Valley, I think – for Labour voices on social media to start attacking these two parties for getting in the way of a Labour victory. In fact, it started before election night: I personally know one Green candidate who was verbally threatened and abused her Labour opponent, and physically intimidated by a bunch of Labour supporters at a hustings, for the impudence of standing against Labour – in a safe Tory seat.
Leaving aside the fact that Brexit Party votes were a far more significant factor in Labour losses, and also the fact that if Labour want a quid pro quo tactical alliance, they need to offer a quid for the quo, Labour should be asking themselves why, if the Labour offer was so good, so many people who could have voted Labour chose to forgo that manifesto for something else.
And Labour also need to realise that, by saying that the Greens or LibDems ‘stole’ their votes, they are implicitly accepting that there is indeed an overlap between the parties, and where there is an overlap, there is room for cooperation and compromise. Starting by doing away with calling the LibDems ‘Tory-lite’ and the Greens ‘splitters’, they could usefully lay the groundwork for future cooperation. Which leads me on to…
Jo Swinson proving that she's a metro liberal pro EU fanatic completely out of touch with the rest of us. It's not Boris Johnson that's the problem, Jo - it's YOU.
And in that regard, I've yet to see evidence that Layla Moran isn't identical. It's not that Layla isn't tainted by the Coalition and Swinson is; it's that they are both craven Europhiles. It is their far more recent actions that make the LibDems unpalatable. Moran was out on the stump selling the egregious notion of Revoke. That is a problem.
I got brickbats aplenty here for reporting back that Swinson was unpopular on the doorsteps. No, it wasn't my subjective dislike of the LibDems; no, it was not my natural misogyny shining through. It was telling it like it is.
Jo Swinson got stick as the "Mumsnet" candidate. Layla Moran would be worse. She's the sort of person who'd lecture you at length on where you are going wrong with your parenting, despite never having had a kid herself. I confidently predict that the LibDems will have an even more difficult issue in selling Moran to the voters rthan they had with Swinson.
The LibDems have got this arse about face. They need to stand back, work out what they are for, what their retail offer is. Then decide on the leader to sell that offer. They got plaudits from the IFS (I know, I know) for their Manifesto offering this time. They occupy the sensible economic space that Labour has vacated. Now, a new Labour leader will likely try to tack back to retake that lost ground. But the LibDems could have dug in by then. They can have a whole package of proposals, crafted whilst not in hock to union paymasters. But they need to look inwardly at what they offer the voters of North Devon and North Cornwall, not impose an unwanted European settlement on them whilst branding the voters inward-looking thick little Englanders. See their previous candidate in North Deon for details.
They should appoint a Parliamentary leader, but also a more senior Party leader who does not have to be in the House for that. Indeed, Jo Swinson could fulfil the role - if she were able to learn the reasons why they have just crashed and burned with the voters.
Labour and the LDs need a geographic plan to start with, and not pick a leader til they have that plan. Are the LDs trying to expand in metropolitan areas vs Labour or to reclaim territory in SW and Scotland? Are Labour looking at Scotland, Wales, Midlands or the North? Different approaches need different leaders.
Obviously if both Lab & LD decide their focus is metropolitan first then its ideal for the Tories, and its realistic both parties make that mistake despite common sense saying it wont get them anywhere.
Jo Swinson reckons she smashed the glass ceiling by becoming the first female Liberal Democrat party leader. Leading to broken glass falling on her ...
Really!!???
We've had two female Prime Ministers, two devolved female First Ministers and many female party leaders before her. No glass was broken.
To quote my mum (an LD, who did not vote LD this time) 'She wants to be Nicola Sturgeon, but doesn't have the ability'.
I have a slightly soft spot for Swinson because she categorically would make a better PM than either Johnson or Corbyn, but no-one much voted for her, including myself.
"It's not you Jo, it's me"...
Swinson would categorically be a better PM than Corbyn or Johnson because she is not a self-indulgent ideologue nor a feckless fraud. Give her credit. A certain lack of empathy and self-awareness are quibbles in comparison. The problem is that we are so obsessed by the other that sensible decency doesn't get a look in.
3. The shape of the new parliamentary Labour party Now, I don’t know the answer to this, and I’m hoping someone here or elsewhere may do the legwork on this and come up with some figures, but is the new PLP, with MPs losing, new faces replacing retirees, etc., heavily Corbynite, still quite anti-Corbyn, equally split, or what? There seems to be little room for compromise between the Corbyn/Momentum wing who seem to be simultaneously calling for one more push and also blaming the electorate for not realising how great Labour is, and the – what can I call it? – more realistic wing, who would like to move (back) to the centre ground and give themselves a shot at winning in 2024. We might have hoped that following last night’s debacle, Corbyn would have resigned #gracefully, but instead he appears to want to hang on until next year, wanting a ‘time for reflection’ that is transparently an attempt to hang on so the succession can be, er, ‘arranged’. Can the centre-left MPs do anything to hasten a change? Well, dependent on how the numbers stack up, maybe they need to take some drastic action to get something moving. And given that they’ve got five years of security of post until the next election, acting now could mean time to smooth over the inevitable ill-feeling between now and 2024. If I was a leading centre-left Labour MP, and looked around me and worked out the numbers were there to do it, then on the day before parliament reconvenes, I’d aanounce that the centre-left MPs would not take the Labour whip, but would sit as a separate group in parliament. I’d make sure, in fact, that this new group was big enough to be larger than Corbyn’s Labour, and hence be the official Opposition, relegating Corbyn to being a minor leader who could make his meandering speeches to an empty chamber. I’d even, if the numbers made it necessary, hold my nose and reach out to the LibDems, Plaid Cymru, and Caroline Lucas, to see if an umbrella grouping could work. What would they call such a grouping? Of course we had this all with Change UK, TIG, and so on. But there is one option that could be used, an existing party name that has none of the baggage of Labour, but has a long and proud history that bridges socialism, social democracy and indeed liberalism. Party rules might need amending of course, and some MPs might need to quickly fill out a membership form, but might Parliament, and the country, benefit from the Labour Party being sidelined by a rejuvenated and revived Co-Operative Party? Well, a voter (this voter) can dream…
* Note: I am a former activist for (sequentially) the LibDems and Greens, but no longer active for, or a member of, any party.
Should corbyn really bang on about no one in the party disagreeing with the manifest? Seems like hed trying to make sure the platform is not tarnished, but all that means is the problem must be him and anyone like him.
Hi, first time I’ve posted, though I’ve been lurking around here for a considerable time!
I’m one of those who is desperately disappointed that the Tories won; to me it feels a bit like 1992, waking up feeling deflated and bruised. At least this time I was expecting it, as I have been firmly of the opinion that Labour under Corbyn and McDonnell were heading for disaster.
Although I (*see note) didn’t vote Labour yesterday, I would certainly have voted for a centre-left Labour party, primarily to stop the Conservatives. And whatever I might think of them, they are still the main opposition party, so I wanted to put some thoughts out in the aftermath of the December Debacle.
1. The Labour Brexit position
2. The Labour attitude to the LibDems and Greens
It didn’t take long last night – till Blyth Valley, I think – for Labour voices on social media to start attacking these two parties for getting in the way of a Labour victory. In fact, it started before election night: I personally know one Green candidate who was verbally threatened and abused her Labour opponent, and physically intimidated by a bunch of Labour supporters at a hustings, for the impudence of standing against Labour – in a safe Tory seat.
Leaving aside the fact that Brexit Party votes were a far more significant factor in Labour losses, and also the fact that if Labour want a quid pro quo tactical alliance, they need to offer a quid for the quo, Labour should be asking themselves why, if the Labour offer was so good, so many people who could have voted Labour chose to forgo that manifesto for something else.
And Labour also need to realise that, by saying that the Greens or LibDems ‘stole’ their votes, they are implicitly accepting that there is indeed an overlap between the parties, and where there is an overlap, there is room for cooperation and compromise. Starting by doing away with calling the LibDems ‘Tory-lite’ and the Greens ‘splitters’, they could usefully lay the groundwork for future cooperation. Which leads me on to…
I wonder if Boris will put someone big and interesting in charge of Health, or will he keep Hancock.
Gove!
I was thinking that. But then he's marmite.
What about producing a shock like asking Theresa May, or ennobling Cameron... they probably wouldn't want to do it but it'd be nice to stamp some authority on it by doing a Brown-bringing-back-Mandelson style move.
Jo Swinson got stick as the "Mumsnet" candidate. Layla Moran would be worse. She's the sort of person who'd lecture you at length on where you are going wrong with your parenting, despite never having had a kid herself.
I know it's not the point you're trying to make, but as a parent who's about to fill in the application form to choose Capitano Junior's primary school, I would far, far rather have Layla Moran setting education policy than any of the recent Secretaries of State, whether Labour or Conservative. Moran genuinely "gets it". Gove was fixated on free schools and shitting on the teaching profession. Labour is still pushing the failed dogma that SEN kids should be educated in a mainstream setting, to the detriment of both those kids and the others who share the class with them.
As it is, after nine years of Conservative government and a Conservative-run county council, our local primary is so shockingly bad that we're even considering going private - though hopefully we'll get Junior into one of the smaller village schools nearby.
Should corbyn really bang on about no one in the party disagreeing with the manifest? Seems like hed trying to make sure the platform is not tarnished, but all that means is the problem must be him and anyone like him.
They are not going to give up thier party of pure socialism without a fight Corbyn delaying to game the outcome. It may still end up in a split.
Possibly, likely, counting my chickens here, but, now that it seems that Brexit will actually happen, it was probably for the good that the referendum result was tested to within an inch of its life before enactment, albeit in the free market kind of way it has rather than a second go at it. Leave won the referendum, then the only party willing to enact the result won a Majority in a subsequent GE with the policy in its manifesto. Double lock!
Yep. It is unambiguously the will of the people. We'll be out by 1st Feb.
Oven cooked.
Remain 52% Leave 48% but the war, stage one is over let’s hope WAIB gets proper scrutiny and is not rushed through, it can wait for the new year.
Yes Johnson loves scrutiny, that will definitely happen.
I really worry that these important albeit very simple Bills being rushed through in a single day over the last year have given government a taste to take the piss with timetabling now they have the upper hand
Hi, first time I’ve posted, though I’ve been lurking around here for a considerable time!
I’m one of those who is desperately disappointed that the Tories won; to me it feels a bit like 1992, waking up feeling deflated and bruised. At least this time I was expecting it, as I have been firmly of the opinion that Labour under Corbyn and McDonnell were heading for disaster.
1. The Labour Brexit position Trying to ride two horses didn’t work. Maintaining ambiguity was supposed to help in Leave-voting areas, but it’s obvious from the votes for the Brexit Party in Labour seats that there were a substantial cadre of voters who didn’t believe a word of it, and for whom it was too important an issue to accept second best.
I am left wondering if a full-blooded commitment, whether to Leave or second referendum, would have been better: if to Leave, they might have held on to more of those Brexit-supporting Labour voters, while ceding Remainia to the LibDems and Greens, and hoping to work with those parties against the Tories post-election; if to Remain, then a more comprehensive Remain alliance might have given them more opportunity to attack the Tories in Remain areas to compensate for the losses in Leave areas – losses which I fully expected, although not on the scale they eventually came to. And speaking of the LibDems and Greens…
2. The Labour attitude to the LibDems and Greens
It didn’t take long last night – till Blyth Valley, I think – for Labour voices on social media to start attacking these two parties for getting in the way of a Labour victory. In fact, it started before election night: I personally know one Green candidate who was verbally threatened and abused her Labour opponent, and physically intimidated by a bunch of Labour supporters at a hustings, for the impudence of standing against Labour – in a safe Tory seat.
Leaving aside the fact that Brexit Party votes were a far more significant factor in Labour losses, and also the fact that if Labour want a quid pro quo tactical alliance, they need to offer a quid for the quo, Labour should be asking themselves why, if the Labour offer was so good, so many people who could have voted Labour chose to forgo that manifesto for something else.
And Labour also need to realise that, by saying that the Greens or LibDems ‘stole’ their votes, they are implicitly accepting that there is indeed an overlap between the parties, and where there is an overlap, there is room for cooperation and compromise. Starting by doing away with calling the LibDems ‘Tory-lite’ and the Greens ‘splitters’, they could usefully lay the groundwork for future cooperation. Which leads me on to…
I wonder if Boris will put someone big and interesting in charge of Health, or will he keep Hancock.
Gove!
I was thinking that. But then he's marmite.
What about producing a shock like asking Theresa May, or ennobling Cameron... they probably wouldn't want to do it but it'd be nice to stamp some authority on it by doing a Brown-bringing-back-Mandelson style move.
I'd put my money on Rishi Sunak who is due a promotion after a well-regarded stint as Chief Secretary to the Treasury and in one of the election debates.
Labour know how to stage manage... in 1997 there was hoards of supporters cheering Blair, it looked like the "people had spoken", a scene almost from World War Z with crowds swarming Downing street. Yet, despite Boris securing more votes than Blair in 1997 we wont see those kind of scenes.
Polling suggests Johnson is not a popular PM, just fortunate to be facing the most unpopular LOTO ever. Blair was genuinely popular at the time.
The most unpopular LOTO filled a huge square in Bristol only days before this huge defeat...
What does that matter? Crappy bands can still sell out a venue to the right crowd.
It's an unpopular opinion for Labour supporters but I think the NHS has lost some of its salience as an election issue. Not in terms of media coverage (they love it) or the politicians' desire to create it into a football, but in terms of public reaction.
Voters are naturally cynical and I think the 'NHS in Crisis' is priced in. We all know it needs more money, and will need more money next year, and the year after that, and the constant refrain of Tory Cuts, Save the NHS and NHS Privatisation probably shifts hardly a vote.
@Fenster I wonder if Boris will put someone big and interesting in charge of Health, or will he keep Hancock. ---- Gove!
This winter will be grim. That boy on the hospital floor is only the start of it. Johnson should put a safe pair of hands into that role, if none other. Which rules Gove out.
Tactically, Labour and the LDs should have delayed the election until the New Year. Health would be a much bigger theme and Johnson wouldn't be getting "most trusted" ratings on it.
Hi, first time I’ve posted, though I’ve been lurking around here for a considerable time!
I’m one of those who is desperately disappointed that the Tories won; to me it feels a bit like 1992, waking up feeling deflated and bruised. At least this time I was expecting it, as I have been firmly of the opinion that Labour under Corbyn and McDonnell were heading for disaster.
Although I (*see note) didn’t vote Labour yesterday, I would certainly have voted for a centre-left Labour party, primarily to stop the Conservatives. And whatever I might think of them, they are still the main opposition party, so I wanted to put some thoughts out in the aftermath of the December Debacle.
[snip]
Huginn_and_Muninn, welcome and thanks for your thoughtful contribution. There is much for all parties to take on board after last night. How do Labour and the LibDems reverse out of their respective cul-de-sacs? How do the SNP use their mountain of MPs if the PM refuses point-blank to hold indy-ref2? How do the Tories not disappoint their newly-borrowed voters? So plenty for us all to chip in with our twopenneth worth.
Love that speech outside No10 from Boris. Positive, inspiring, friendly and warm. Thank God he won. Can you imagine if it had been Corbyn?
I was a first time Conservative voter and, more than hearing the voices of my parents whispering as I wavered over the ballot paper, I phoned them both beforehand to ask permission to vote Tory & said I wouldn't if it would make them feel let down. Millions of others obviously felt the same, and I am glad that we agreed that the gridlock could not go on any longer. .
Labour know how to stage manage... in 1997 there was hoards of supporters cheering Blair, it looked like the "people had spoken", a scene almost from World War Z with crowds swarming Downing street. Yet, despite Boris securing more votes than Blair in 1997 we wont see those kind of scenes.
Polling suggests Johnson is not a popular PM, just fortunate to be facing the most unpopular LOTO ever. Blair was genuinely popular at the time.
The most unpopular LOTO filled a huge square in Bristol only days before this huge defeat...
What does that matter? Crappy bands can still sell out a venue to the right crowd.
It's an unpopular opinion for Labour supporters but I think the NHS has lost some of its salience as an election issue. Not in terms of media coverage (they love it) or the politicians' desire to create it into a football, but in terms of public reaction.
Voters are naturally cynical and I think the 'NHS in Crisis' is priced in. We all know it needs more money, and will need more money next year, and the year after that, and the constant refrain of Tory Cuts, Save the NHS and NHS Privatisation probably shifts hardly a vote.
The people who use it the most are the over 65s and they vote overwhelmingly Tory!
Labour know how to stage manage... in 1997 there was hoards of supporters cheering Blair, it looked like the "people had spoken", a scene almost from World War Z with crowds swarming Downing street. Yet, despite Boris securing more votes than Blair in 1997 we wont see those kind of scenes.
Because the Tories have been in power for 9 years while Labour had been out of power for twice that in 1997? I don't remember Blair declaring himself to be leading the People's Government in the style of a third world coup leader either (although I was so hung over that day I might have missed it).
"the Labour Party is now the political arm of the British People" ring any bells? But it's true Blair was v popular and even I who didn't vote in 97 got swept up in the wave of sunny optimism Labour's win generated - I remember being in a great mood and feeling I was part of something great.
Comments
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2019/results
Financial Services are already heading over the Channel through customer demand; UK pharmaceuticals are seeing a lot downsides to Brexit in terms of attracting international research talent, patent applicability, market positions and regulation; motor industry has very little reason to invest in the UK, although that's not only Brexit. These are big and lucrative industries and no-one is giving any thought at strategic level.
I got brickbats aplenty here for reporting back that Swinson was unpopular on the doorsteps. No, it wasn't my subjective dislike of the LibDems; no, it was not my natural misogyny shining through. It was telling it like it is.
Jo Swinson got stick as the "Mumsnet" candidate. Layla Moran would be worse. She's the sort of person who'd lecture you at length on where you are going wrong with your parenting, despite never having had a kid herself. I confidently predict that the LibDems will have an even more difficult issue in selling Moran to the voters rthan they had with Swinson.
The LibDems have got this arse about face. They need to stand back, work out what they are for, what their retail offer is. Then decide on the leader to sell that offer. They got plaudits from the IFS (I know, I know) for their Manifesto offering this time. They occupy the sensible economic space that Labour has vacated. Now, a new Labour leader will likely try to tack back to retake that lost ground. But the LibDems could have dug in by then. They can have a whole package of proposals, crafted whilst not in hock to union paymasters. But they need to look inwardly at what they offer the voters of North Devon and North Cornwall, not impose an unwanted European settlement on them whilst branding the voters inward-looking thick little Englanders. See their previous candidate in North Deon for details.
They should appoint a Parliamentary leader, but also a more senior Party leader who does not have to be in the House for that. Indeed, Jo Swinson could fulfil the role - if she were able to learn the reasons why they have just crashed and burned with the voters.
The Lib Dem target list is interesting too, several seats previously thought of as solidly Conservative are now in their top 20. South Cambridgeshire at #8, Esher is #9, Wokingham #17. Cambridge is now down at 24.
It's easy to tell people Brexit is going to improve their lives, something else entirely to deliver it.
Interesting background. German, arty, photogenic.
https://twitter.com/Jessica54965615/status/1205444518050500609
I’m one of those who is desperately disappointed that the Tories won; to me it feels a bit like 1992, waking up feeling deflated and bruised. At least this time I was expecting it, as I have been firmly of the opinion that Labour under Corbyn and McDonnell were heading for disaster.
Although I (*see note) didn’t vote Labour yesterday, I would certainly have voted for a centre-left Labour party, primarily to stop the Conservatives. And whatever I might think of them, they are still the main opposition party, so I wanted to put some thoughts out in the aftermath of the December Debacle.
1. The Labour Brexit position
Trying to ride two horses didn’t work. Maintaining ambiguity was supposed to help in Leave-voting areas, but it’s obvious from the votes for the Brexit Party in Labour seats that there were a substantial cadre of voters who didn’t believe a word of it, and for whom it was too important an issue to accept second best.
I am left wondering if a full-blooded commitment, whether to Leave or second referendum, would have been better: if to Leave, they might have held on to more of those Brexit-supporting Labour voters, while ceding Remainia to the LibDems and Greens, and hoping to work with those parties against the Tories post-election; if to Remain, then a more comprehensive Remain alliance might have given them more opportunity to attack the Tories in Remain areas to compensate for the losses in Leave areas – losses which I fully expected, although not on the scale they eventually came to. And speaking of the LibDems and Greens…
2. The Labour attitude to the LibDems and Greens
It didn’t take long last night – till Blyth Valley, I think – for Labour voices on social media to start attacking these two parties for getting in the way of a Labour victory. In fact, it started before election night: I personally know one Green candidate who was verbally threatened and abused her Labour opponent, and physically intimidated by a bunch of Labour supporters at a hustings, for the impudence of standing against Labour – in a safe Tory seat.
Leaving aside the fact that Brexit Party votes were a far more significant factor in Labour losses, and also the fact that if Labour want a quid pro quo tactical alliance, they need to offer a quid for the quo, Labour should be asking themselves why, if the Labour offer was so good, so many people who could have voted Labour chose to forgo that manifesto for something else.
And Labour also need to realise that, by saying that the Greens or LibDems ‘stole’ their votes, they are implicitly accepting that there is indeed an overlap between the parties, and where there is an overlap, there is room for cooperation and compromise. Starting by doing away with calling the LibDems ‘Tory-lite’ and the Greens ‘splitters’, they could usefully lay the groundwork for future cooperation. Which leads me on to…
Obviously if both Lab & LD decide their focus is metropolitan first then its ideal for the Tories, and its realistic both parties make that mistake despite common sense saying it wont get them anywhere.
Nationalise it now!!!!!!!!!!!!
What about producing a shock like asking Theresa May, or ennobling Cameron... they probably wouldn't want to do it but it'd be nice to stamp some authority on it by doing a Brown-bringing-back-Mandelson style move.
As it is, after nine years of Conservative government and a Conservative-run county council, our local primary is so shockingly bad that we're even considering going private - though hopefully we'll get Junior into one of the smaller village schools nearby.
https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1205505251530485760?s=20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBpXBxK1H2M
Voters are naturally cynical and I think the 'NHS in Crisis' is priced in. We all know it needs more money, and will need more money next year, and the year after that, and the constant refrain of Tory Cuts, Save the NHS and NHS Privatisation probably shifts hardly a vote.
Tactically, Labour and the LDs should have delayed the election until the New Year. Health would be a much bigger theme and Johnson wouldn't be getting "most trusted" ratings on it.
I was a first time Conservative voter and, more than hearing the voices of my parents whispering as I wavered over the ballot paper, I phoned them both beforehand to ask permission to vote Tory & said I wouldn't if it would make them feel let down. Millions of others obviously felt the same, and I am glad that we agreed that the gridlock could not go on any longer.
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Bingo!
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1205454612972617728?s=20
The Boris Landslide - I like the sound of that!
I miss him. Intelligent, personable, genuinely working class. Everything the current leadership are not.
So that is the leadership resolved - no problem
One of the most exciting results, not just in Northern Ireland but the whole of the UK.
Under 100 votes, simply amazing.