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  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited December 2019
    Byronic said:

    murali_s said:

    nunu2 said:

    Channel 4 are making a good case to have their licence revoked after the election.

    This cycle of vengeance against Channel 4 is very old. Channel 4 news is really only what remains of an intellectually ambitious channel.
    +1

    Their coverage of the war-crimes and genocide in Sri Lanka was truly astounding. They carried the torch while the rest of the mainstream media were playing silly buggers.
    Channel 4 News does some really good stuff, which is why it is such a shame they are so clearly biased against Boris, the Tories and Brexit. The bias demeans them, devalues their journalism, and will in the end see Channel 4 News dismantled.

    It would be nice to think there are clever people in C4 who can see the bigger picture. And then take steps to remedy it.
    This is the same impetus that restructured Channel 4 to start with. Channel 4 news may be metropolitan, but if the Thatcherite mission against non-commercial broadcasting is completed, with the BBC bitten down to a subscription service too, all that will remain is a wasteland of ITV, Channel 5 and Sky-alikes.

    In the 1980s and early 1990s British television was, by common consent, the best in the world. Now French and German TV, and programming from many other nations, far outstrips it.
  • Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    isam said:

    Byronic said:

    felix said:

    Fair enough I’ll hold my hands up that I’ve got it wrong

    Good for you - that's something Southam Observer will never do :)

    I already have on here and here ...
    https://twitter.com/SpaJw/status/1202915568271134720

    You need to ask yourself why you are SO desperate to think the worst of Boris, and Brexit, that it is literally warping your senses.

    This isn't the first time you've made an embarrassing error by leaping to a false conclusion that best supports your prejudices
    Blinkered, prejudiced and ill mannered. Knows nothing about betting. A complete embarrassment
    No, Southam is an OK guy. A mensch, of sorts. I have hopes he can be restored to lucidity, when his grief is abated, following the Boris landslide.

    Thank-you - enough.

    If we're going to be fraternal on PB (it makes a nice change) then I happily confess I am in the same boat, though I maybe realised my problem a bit earlier than you. A few months back I noticed I was making errors of judgement, that were born of my contempt for Corbyn and my dislike of Remainer elitism.

    Since then I have striven to address my bias. But we are all a work in progress.

    Incidentally, there are already signs that Brexit might not be as bad as you fear. For the first time in years, London property prices are perking up.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f85e6602-f005-11e9-a55a-30afa498db1b

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/london-house-prices-show-the-first-signs-of-recovery-2ffvb8blm

    I reckon there is a lot of pent-up investment waiting to come to Britain (because we are still seen as stable, despite Brexit and Corbyn, because stability is RELATIVE - i.e. Brexit is a mess but it's better than Hong Kong's riots).

    If and when Boris wins a decent majority, I expect the economy to pick up pace.

    One thing I have definitely learned in my 50 plus years is that making a complete twat of yourself can be cathartic if you react in the right way. I have made a complete twat of myself this morning. I think it may actually end up doing me some good.

    The possibility of Corbyn will undoubtedly benefit some aspects of UK inward investment and I can see some kind of release in the early part of next year. Longer term, though, I am not so sure. We will see.

  • BluerBlueBluerBlue Posts: 521
    edited December 2019

    BluerBlue said:

    5.1 million now. Must be the world's biggest Twitter bubble.

    No one cares after the C4 smear. Neilgate lasted about 14 hours.
    Ha ha in your dreams.
    How many points will it shift in Labour's favour?

  • For everyone shooting C4 News.

    They made a mistake. They have now made a public apology. What more do you want? Public floggings?

    Yes. They were too quick to rush out their supposed "gotcha" that they didn't do the most basic of fact checking. It just took one to listen with eyes closed to hear what was really said. Not the most sophisticated of techniques.

    For an idiot on twitter that would be par for the course; for a national broadcaster in the middle of a general election campaign it shows at the very least a massive error of judgement. More likely it demonstrates a lack of basic professionalism and due diligence in their editorial standards and processes.

    They should be publicly flogged for that.
    This could be catching. Perhaps we could bastinado Sajid Javid for straight-out lying about trends in homelessness. We could pull out Boris Johnson's scrotal hairs one by one for continuing to assert that there will no checks on goods going between Britain and Northern Ireland when his own government's documents confirm they will.
    There is a difference.

    Politicians make claims and statements in an election. It is the job of broadcasters to assess, analyse and report the validity of those claims. It is for electors to judge the veracity of the claims and propositions before casting their ballot.

    When C4 make a biased cluster*uck like this it undermines the confidence in any of their content. That is the difference.
    If you are being downright dishonest as a matter of practice, as the Conservatives currently are, then you have no moral standing to complain about the mistakes of others. Motes and beams.
    It doesn't need to be a race to the bottom.

    We expect our politicians to make claims and counter claims that are politically-motivated and use statistsics that are open to a variety of interpretations. It goes to the heart of "trust" that electors weigh when voting.

    However, we rightly expect our broadcast media to be above the fray.

    Channel 4 fell woefully and demonstrably short in this instance. This is not a party-political point I am making - I hope I would be as concerned had they smeared another party in similar circumstances and had to quickly retract.

    We deserve better.

  • kle4 said:

    camel said:

    Andy_JS said:

    llef said:

    UK Election Poll: Conservatives 44% (Unch.); Labour 32% (+4) - Ipsos/MORIv

    https://twitter.com/LiveSquawk/status/1202899539579068416

    All the polls are rather uncannily coming into line with the topline MRP figures of Con 43%, Lab 32%.
    Tories seem firm on 43. Anti-tory vote seems a movable feast. So can Jeremy pull off his 2017 late swing trick again or not?
    I think yes, but hes further back now. 41-36 I think.
    By this stage of the 2017 campaign labour had exceeded 35% in 8 polls. They would exceed it in a further 6 over the coming weekend. The swing had already begun and actually seemed to peak over this coming weekend equivalent
    Was it not the Saturday evening before the election that we got those 1% leads and the whole of PB went into complete meltdown?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    I think that a lot of those about to vote Labour have a deep seated moral discomfort over Corbyn that they are trying to repress. Projecting evil characteristics on Johnson resolves the dilemma allowing them to justify their horrible moral choice.

    I would remove the word moral from that statement - it really isn't necessary and is equally true without it.
  • BluerBlue said:

    If I were Boris, I would use the phrase "people of talent" ten times in the debate tonight, just for the bantz...

    "People of talent want to Get Brexit Done"
    “And unleash Britain’s potential”
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    Byronic said:

    felix said:

    Fair enough I’ll hold my hands up that I’ve got it wrong

    Good for you - that's something Southam Observer will never do :)

    I already have on here and here ...
    https://twitter.com/SpaJw/status/1202915568271134720

    You need to ask yourself why you are SO desperate to think the worst of Boris, and Brexit, that it is literally warping your senses.

    This isn't the first time you've made an embarrassing error by leaping to a false conclusion that best supports your prejudices
    Blinkered, prejudiced and ill mannered. Knows nothing about betting. A complete embarrassment

    Ha, ha. Bless you. I do know next to nothing about betting, it is true. But so what? It has not really held me back.

    But this is a site about betting and politics, you know nothing about the former and are blinkered, prejudiced and ill informed on the latter. Why’d you bother?
    I think that is out of order isam. I'd admit that Brexit and Boris has sent him batshit, but it's done that to most of us! I'd genuinely vote for the Labour Party of SO ,and if you have to be a bettor to post in here, this place would be awfully quiet.

  • Was it not the Saturday evening before the election that we got those 1% leads and the whole of PB went into complete meltdown?


  • This Talent-/Colour-gate thing works so well for Boris that I'm beginning to believe C4 may be undercover Tories after all...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,602
    edited December 2019

    Andy_JS said:

    The fact that so many Corbynistas are still insisting Johnson said colour could potentially prove a real problem for them if they carry on like this.

    It is quite scary how much the cult are like Team Trump supporters. It doesn't matter what the facts are, they have their own alternative facts.

    And as I pointed out last night, this isn't just random 18 year olds, people like Michael Rosen, a supposed highly intelligent man (and yes I know he has already been very left wing so not surprising he is a fan of Corbyn)...his twitter feed is littered with the fake news shit.
    I really like Michael Rosen's Radio 4 programmes on language. Shows how important it is not to let politics affect everything.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    kle4 said:

    camel said:

    Andy_JS said:

    llef said:

    UK Election Poll: Conservatives 44% (Unch.); Labour 32% (+4) - Ipsos/MORIv

    https://twitter.com/LiveSquawk/status/1202899539579068416

    All the polls are rather uncannily coming into line with the topline MRP figures of Con 43%, Lab 32%.
    Tories seem firm on 43. Anti-tory vote seems a movable feast. So can Jeremy pull off his 2017 late swing trick again or not?
    I think yes, but hes further back now. 41-36 I think.
    By this stage of the 2017 campaign labour had exceeded 35% in 8 polls. They would exceed it in a further 6 over the coming weekend. The swing had already begun and actually seemed to peak over this coming weekend equivalent
    If it peaked the weekend before the 2017 election, what happens this time were it to peak at the election booth (not saying it will but....)

  • Channel 4 fell woefully and demonstrably short in this instance. This is not a party-political point I am making - I hope I would be as concerned had they smeared another party in similar circumstances and had to quickly retract.

    Come off it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,602
    It feels like there's a cult out there that wants to ban everything. They're like the puritans in the 17th century.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912

    kinabalu said:

    glw said:

    A lot of lefties on here have made fools of themselves this morning. I hope they are feeling suitably ashamed.

    No. Those making fools of themselves are limited to the following.

    (i) CH4.

    (ii) Those who defended the BJ comments before the correction was known.

    Think about it.
    I do think you need a third category

    https://twitter.com/mattzarb/status/1202917019055796225
    There are a huge number of idiots on Twitter insisting that Boris said colour and that Channel4 have been knobbled in some way.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    Just had the Tories knock my Stockton South door for the first time ever. Bless them. Both students from Surrey. Had no idea where they were. Does show how much £££ the Tory machine has though

    I thought you said the Stockton South people had been moved to Darlo?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386

    Byronic said:

    isam said:

    Byronic said:

    felix said:

    Fair enough I’ll hold my hands up that I’ve got it wrong

    Good for you - that's something Southam Observer will never do :)

    I already have on here and here ...
    https://twitter.com/SpaJw/status/1202915568271134720

    You need to ask yourself why you are SO desperate to think the worst of Boris, and Brexit, that it is literally warping your senses.

    This isn't the first time you've made an embarrassing error by leaping to a false conclusion that best supports your prejudices
    Blinkered, prejudiced and ill mannered. Knows nothing about betting. A complete embarrassment
    No, Southam is an OK guy. A mensch, of sorts. I have hopes he can be restored to lucidity, when his grief is abated, following the Boris landslide.

    Thank-you - I do appreciate it. The trick is to separate the personal from the political. It's the not having control thing, I think. Watching the country slide into what you strongly believe is a preventable disaster because there is no-one capable of preventing it is very tough. I wish I were handling it better. It's not healthy. But on a personal level Johnson is undoubtedly going to be very good for me and my family. I imagine I will get used to that soon enough.

    I can feel your pain and others and really do understand it

    So many have a deep affection for the EU and in divorce it is excrutiating and wrecks emotions

    I only want brexit done because I believe it has to happen even though I voted remain

    I do believe those who want to be in the EU need to form a campaign to rejoin and if leaving goes wrong, which it may or may not, rejoining may become a very popular option probably by the time of the next election

    I do not really have a deep affection for the EU. I have a deep affection for the UK. It's clear, though, that my views about what are best for the UK are minority ones. My task is to learn to deal with that better.
    People like me who advocate a strong UK within a far from perfect EU are traitors. I know this now. True patriots like Mr Johnson, Mr Farage and Mr Rees-Mogg are beyond reproach. They will nonetheless be the architects of a United Ireland and an independent Scotland.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Andy_JS said:

    The fact that so many Corbynistas are still insisting Johnson said colour could potentially prove a real problem for them if they carry on like this.

    "People of Colour" is trending number 4 on Twitter.

    It's quite the spectacle. Head over there to watch 100,000 people, many of them journalists, pundits, academics, politicians, lawyers, make absolute embarrassing titwanks of themselves, as they relentlessly pursue a story already proven as fake.

    Yes, this could snowball into something modestly significant. It's remarkable.
  • BluerBlue said:

    BluerBlue said:

    5.1 million now. Must be the world's biggest Twitter bubble.

    No one cares after the C4 smear. Neilgate lasted about 14 hours.
    Ha ha in your dreams.
    How many points will it shift in Labour's favour?
    I don't know. I just think it's good that cheats don't prosper, liars are confronted and cowards are exposed. It's good to see that the British public still believe in fair play.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Just listened to it. Sounds like colour to me. Certainly sounds nothing like talent.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    C4 must be run by secret Tories, this nothing story has completely taken the agenda away from the Andrew Neil story, which is probably much more important.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    edited December 2019
    Yes I'll give you that. But my point was that it is the people who defended (rather than criticized) the comments before the error came to light who have questions to answer.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    For The Many not The Few. Tee Hee.
  • eek said:

    I think that a lot of those about to vote Labour have a deep seated moral discomfort over Corbyn that they are trying to repress. Projecting evil characteristics on Johnson resolves the dilemma allowing them to justify their horrible moral choice.

    I would remove the word moral from that statement - it really isn't necessary and is equally true without it.
    Maybe you are right, a lot of decent people are voting Labour I know that. Many haven't really researched the nature of the leadership. There are also some who dare not look at it and are fooling themselves.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited December 2019
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The fact that so many Corbynistas are still insisting Johnson said colour could potentially prove a real problem for them if they carry on like this.

    It is quite scary how much the cult are like Team Trump supporters. It doesn't matter what the facts are, they have their own alternative facts.

    And as I pointed out last night, this isn't just random 18 year olds, people like Michael Rosen, a supposed highly intelligent man (and yes I know he has already been very left wing so not surprising he is a fan of Corbyn)...his twitter feed is littered with the fake news shit.
    I really like Michael Rosen's Radio 4 programmes on language. Shows how important it is not to let politics affect everything.
    Mrs U has met him a few years ago and spoke with him at length and said he was very charming. As I say, we all know he is very left wing, but I am just disappointed to find that he has resorted to the retweeting all this fake news shit from the usual suspects.
  • XtrainXtrain Posts: 341
    Andy_JS said:

    It feels like there's a cult out there that wants to ban everything. They're like the puritans in the 17th century.
    These people are idiots.
    Without Christmas jumpers we'll have to turn our thermostats up!
  • Just listened to it. Sounds like colour to me. Certainly sounds nothing like talent.

    I frequently struggle to understand what Johnson says, he has such an inpenitrably posh accent.
  • Just had the Tories knock my Stockton South door for the first time ever. Bless them. Both students from Surrey. Had no idea where they were. Does show how much £££ the Tory machine has though

    Not had a single door knocker or leaflet. Given I only moved here a year or so ago I would have thought they might want to know how/if my home of 4 adults would vote.

  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    What was Labours big announcement this morning to get their campaign back on the front foot? I must have missed it.
  • My favourite People Of Talent tweet so far
    https://twitter.com/ceejayqueue/status/1202922001876344832?s=20
    Because I so believe that Boris is racist that I misheard him, proves that he must be racist.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    You Gov are running a poll on whether Johnson should the AN interview .

    It’s early days but so far overwhelmingly people say yes . I doubt the issue will change many votes , but the questions AN wanted to put are more problematic if people saw the AN clip.
  • Ah, Jezza.

    twitter.com/ExStrategist/status/1202924201923022849

    Jesus Christ, even the yuff don't like him.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    melcf said:

    Define Irony:, Boris Ali Kemal Bey Johnson, Priti Patel, Sajid Javed and Chinless/ No named Father Gove are now the gatekeepers to this ancient and powerful land. To keep people of colour out.

    MODERATORS

    I would encourage you to ban this racist poster
  • What was Labours big announcement this morning to get their campaign back on the front foot? I must have missed it.

    New top secret documents (off reddit I presume).
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    edited December 2019
    Here's an example of a senior politician humiliating themselves on the issue

    https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/1202912996252618754?s=20

    Chuka hasn't even got the balls to apologise or delete. Shameful stuff, really. We are governed by moral dwarves.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Ŵ

    BluerBlue said:

    If I were Boris, I would use the phrase "people of talent" ten times in the debate tonight, just for the bantz...

    "People of talent want to Get Brexit Done"
    “And unleash Britain’s potential”
    Just a shame most of the people saying such things are retired already and leaving the heavy lifting to others.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Just listened to it. Sounds like colour to me. Certainly sounds nothing like talent.

    are you listening to the original footage or some edited version from a Momentum tweet? Struggle to see how people would think it is 'colour' instead of 'talent' with the original footage and not reading the subtitles.
  • eek said:

    Just had the Tories knock my Stockton South door for the first time ever. Bless them. Both students from Surrey. Had no idea where they were. Does show how much £££ the Tory machine has though

    I thought you said the Stockton South people had been moved to Darlo?
    Indeed! And from what we can see they have. But these people have been sent from dahn sarf.
  • Just had the Tories knock my Stockton South door for the first time ever. Bless them. Both students from Surrey. Had no idea where they were. Does show how much £££ the Tory machine has though

    Not had a single door knocker or leaflet. Given I only moved here a year or so ago I would have thought they might want to know how/if my home of 4 adults would vote.

    Lib Dem propaganda effort at Chez Urquhart appears to have now died out.
  • Its Talent. It doesn't remotely sound like Colour.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited December 2019
    Byronic said:

    Here's an example of a senior politician humiliating themselves on the issue

    https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/1202912996252618754?s=20

    Chuka hasn't even got the balls to apologise or delete. Shameful stuff, really. We are governed by moral dwarves.

    That does now seem to be the line to take on twitter. I was only wrong, because Boris is a massive racist and so I don't need to apologise.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    If there is any dispute, here is definitive proof, a different video of the same speech

    https://twitter.com/JoeAudritt/status/1202930891338764288?s=20

    It's TALENT
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    New thread
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,128

    Off topic, why do so many young men sport such stupid beards these days?

    They make them look like Charles Darwin and about 50 years old, when they’re clearly in their mid-late twenties. The best looking years of their lives. They look utterly ridiculous, and dangerously hipster like.

    Where has this silly fad come from?

    While we're at it: thickly pencilled eyebrows on young women. It looks really strange and the Kardashian look has been influential.

    Decadal fashion changes aren't noticeable at the time, but later it's really obvious. Look at the fashions on old episodes of Friends, and Chandler is basically a paean to pastel matte woodland shades (dark green, dark brown, sandy yellow). You don't see suits like that on men these days, which is a bit of a pity. I've still got a long dark-blue thick wool double-breasted coat from the 1980s (basically Captain Jack - Harkness, not Sparrow) which, when I get rich and will have restored, will look magnificent.

    Pause. I am an adult with a mortgage. Really. :)

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited December 2019
    Byronic said:

    If there is any dispute, here is definitive proof, a different video of the same speech

    twitter.com/JoeAudritt/status/1202930891338764288?s=20

    It's TALENT

    My understanding is he has been using this phrase repeatedly on the campaign trail. It isn't something new he just said.
  • Byronic said:

    Here's an example of a senior politician humiliating themselves on the issue

    https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/1202912996252618754?s=20

    Chuka hasn't even got the balls to apologise or delete. Shameful stuff, really. We are governed by moral dwarves.


    Did he apologize when he called his fellow Londoners trash?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Byronic said:

    If there is any dispute, here is definitive proof, a different video of the same speech

    twitter.com/JoeAudritt/status/1202930891338764288?s=20

    It's TALENT

    My understanding is he has been using this phrase repeatedly on the campaign trail. It isn't something new he just said.
    It’s just a shame there aren’t more people of talent on offer to voters next Thursday
  • BluerBlueBluerBlue Posts: 521
    edited December 2019
    MaxPB said:

    C4 must be run by secret Tories, this nothing story has completely taken the agenda away from the Andrew Neil story, which is probably much more important.

    Boris now the innocent victim of media smears as C4 is forced to make a grovelling apology!

    "So why won't you go on Andrew Neill?"

    "Did you see the way Channel 4 News smeared me this morning and doctored the subtitles? I think we need to have a serious discussion about media standards in this country..."
  • Just listened to it. Sounds like colour to me. Certainly sounds nothing like talent.

    Likewise. It sounds like colour to me. I'm not sure it's worth making such a big deal out of it though.
  • What was Labours big announcement this morning to get their campaign back on the front foot? I must have missed it.

    Nationalize SKY Sports & an extra week's annual holiday.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212

    Just had the Tories knock my Stockton South door for the first time ever. Bless them. Both students from Surrey. Had no idea where they were. Does show how much £££ the Tory machine has though

    Not had a single door knocker or leaflet. Given I only moved here a year or so ago I would have thought they might want to know how/if my home of 4 adults would vote.

    Lib Dem propaganda effort at Chez Urquhart appears to have now died out.
    Only the Tories are making an effort in my patch of Bassetlaw seemingly.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    BluerBlue said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Johnson directly equating getting Brexit done with controlling immigration by "people of colour". My word.
    https://twitter.com/MayaGoodfellow/status/1202902195047403520

    Quite likely he doesn’t say ‘people of colour’ there

    Yes, he does.

    I don’t think so.

    Be careful, you have jumped to incorrect conclusions before on things like this that you are prejudiced on, the Sun blacking up Gina Miller for instance, and you admit you see everything Boris does through the prism of thinking the worst

    He literally says "people of colour".

    Cant see the issue personally, BoJo was talking to Justin Trudeau earlier this week quite happily and he's a sometime person of colour.
    People Of Colour (or POC) is actually the currently correct and woke term in US politics and thus in internet-speak and amongst youngsters globally!

    Boris is in fact being of-the-moment PC here.

    He is just telling another lie about immigration. The term he uses is neither here nor there.

    Clearly it is or people wouldnt have gotten so excited
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    BluerBlue said:

    BluerBlue said:

    5.1 million now. Must be the world's biggest Twitter bubble.

    No one cares after the C4 smear. Neilgate lasted about 14 hours.
    Ha ha in your dreams.
    How many points will it shift in Labour's favour?
    You are missing the point. It's not about how many points it will shift it's about the character and ability of the man we are about to give largely unfettered power to for the next 5 years.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231

    I think that a lot of those about to vote Labour have a deep seated moral discomfort over Corbyn that they are trying to repress. Projecting evil characteristics on Johnson resolves the dilemma allowing them to justify their horrible moral choice.

    Astute. And equally so if written the other way.
  • Channel Four 1982-2020.

    Will have been a good run.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    Sandpit said:
    Yes. 'Mistake'. I'm sure they are distraught.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,128
    Andy_JS said:

    My sense is a Tory landslide is fading into the distance at the moment. Most likely result is a majority of between 20 and 60 but they could still fall short of 326 if the last week goes badly.

    I'm thinking exactly the opposite. All the anecdotes point to a larger Tory victory. The last person to enthuse the WWC and the lower middle class was Blair. It could be 1983, 1997 or even 1931, although I think the different demoses in Scotland and NI preclude the latter.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Channel Four 1982-2020.

    Will have been a good run.

    Just force the news team to move up North. Might see things a bit differently then, would also mean Jon Snow would retire on the spot.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    A few things to take from this People of Colour/Talent episode.

    1) Twitter has destroyed journalism in this country and it is very close to destroying the very essence of truth. Journalists simply do not operate within editorial boundaries on Twitter. Channel 4 need severely reprimanding for their role in this affair as an example to all.

    2) A great many people got exposed as being part of the hive-mind of Twitter. In one respect this episode is a salutary lesson for them but will it be heeded? Doubtful.

    3) By accident, this episode reveals the dangers in the next few years of the deep fake videos. If you have the hive-mind of Twitter searching for a gotcha moment and you have someone else ready to supply it, then its clear we are about to enter a new era where truth is destroyed. I'm sure our enemies are rubbing their hands with glee.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    Chris said:

    melcf said:

    Define Irony:, Boris Ali Kemal Bey Johnson, Priti Patel, Sajid Javed and Chinless/ No named Father Gove are now the gatekeepers to this ancient and powerful land. To keep people of colour out.

    You posted this thinly veiled racism yesterday. Give it a rest.
    Jesus Christ!

    It's racism now, is it, to criticise racism on the part of the descendants of immigrants?

    How absurd can what passes for political discourse become?
    If you dont think its racist that doesn't particularly surprise me
    I _do_ think it's racism on the part of the descendants of immigrants. That's the point of my comment. How could I have made it any clearer?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,128

    A lot of wishful thinking on this thread.

    Now 4.2m views. That must take it out of just the Westminster village and Guardian readers as we were assured earlier.

    Isn't most of this priced in Mike? Not doing Neil is hardly his most egregious whopper - there's a stack of Johnson lies and as James O'Brien has got to do many of the people Johnson lies to know they are being lied to and are happy about being lied to because Brexit.

    I honestly can't see it making a negative difference to him - it could, should it become the singular issue of the remaining days. But it won't be.
    The Andrew Neil no-show is definitely damaging to Boris. No question. But being completely eviscerated would have been even worse. So, probably, right decision, but still a significant hit. Fortunately for Boris the timing isn't too bad, because postal voters will mostly have voted beforfehand and his debate with Corbyn will cause the AN controversy to fade away by polling day.
    What should be more worrying is that we are electing a PM with no backbone. What will he do if he cannot run away? Perhaps, say, in high level talks or discussions? Will he lie to them and then stab them in the back the next day á la DUP? What will that do for UK plc? He was a trainwreck as For.Sec., as PM he could be an National Emergency.
    When Boris gets physically confronted he grins weakly and runs away. It's a pattern in him that runs thru his jobs and relationships and I've remarked on it before. He could be an Anthony Eden sized mistake. Let's hope he's not an Asquith sized mistake... :(
  • RobD said:

    Any news on when we might expect panelbase? Tempted to update the graph.


    Channel 4 fell woefully and demonstrably short in this instance. This is not a party-political point I am making - I hope I would be as concerned had they smeared another party in similar circumstances and had to quickly retract.

    Come off it.
    I said I hope.

    I'm human - and until C4 tweet and report a mis-subtitled video of Mr Corbyn or Ms Swinson apparently saying something racist and then retract and apologise, I can't be certain. But I'm pretty confident I would condemn it in the same terms.
  • melcfmelcf Posts: 166
    Byronic said:

    If there is any dispute, here is definitive proof, a different video of the same speech

    https://twitter.com/JoeAudritt/status/1202930891338764288?s=20

    It's TALENT

    Clearly heard TALENT, keeping in line with Priti Patels pounts based immigration
    Move on guys, don't waste your time or get distracted
    Even if he meant colour, ihe welcomes watermelon smiles, piccannies and letter boxes
    Why you think the Sun sells? Racism is good business too
  • Not even in neutral territory with the student and youth vote.
  • Chris said:

    Chris said:

    melcf said:

    Define Irony:, Boris Ali Kemal Bey Johnson, Priti Patel, Sajid Javed and Chinless/ No named Father Gove are now the gatekeepers to this ancient and powerful land. To keep people of colour out.

    You posted this thinly veiled racism yesterday. Give it a rest.
    Jesus Christ!

    It's racism now, is it, to criticise racism on the part of the descendants of immigrants?

    How absurd can what passes for political discourse become?
    If you dont think its racist that doesn't particularly surprise me
    I _do_ think it's racism on the part of the descendants of immigrants. That's the point of my comment. How could I have made it any clearer?
    So you think Boris's name is "Boris Ali Kemal Bey Johnson"
  • melcfmelcf Posts: 166
    Charles said:

    melcf said:

    Define Irony:, Boris Ali Kemal Bey Johnson, Priti Patel, Sajid Javed and Chinless/ No named Father Gove are now the gatekeepers to this ancient and powerful land. To keep people of colour out.

    MODERATORS

    I would encourage you to ban this racist poster
    Which part of the post is racist???
    Haven't Priti, BJ, Gove, Sajid always harped only on immigration?? So are they not acting as gatekeepers to this nation??
    This whole election has been fought on basis of Immigration/ brexit by Tories . So shut up Charles
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    BluerBlue said:

    MaxPB said:

    C4 must be run by secret Tories, this nothing story has completely taken the agenda away from the Andrew Neil story, which is probably much more important.

    Boris now the innocent victim of media smears as C4 is forced to make a grovelling apology!

    "So why won't you go on Andrew Neill?"

    "Did you see the way Channel 4 News smeared me this morning and doctored the subtitles? I think we need to have a serious discussion about media standards in this country..."
    Particularly reviewing print media journalists who get sacked for lying in newspaper articles they have written.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,128
    Byronic said:

    If the Tories win big, they really do need to take on the Blob, and fuck it up.

    Sell Channel 4. Let Rupert buy it. Privatise the BBC, especially the news. Sack every quangocrat with a leftwing opinion. Gut the universities, rip out the commie parasites in academe. Suppress the Supreme Court. Do it all.

    Brexit needs to be a total revolution, not just a change in trade and tariffs.

    You're an Anglosphere loyalist. You consider British institutions to be unimportant and easily replaced by non-British ones whose politics are more to your liking. But, to misappropriate Thomas More, when you have done all that, torn down every institution with a Union Jack on it, where will you then hide? You have an admirable facility in terms of wealth and geographical mobility and can adjust your persona to fit new circs, or even create new ones. But the rest of us are not do lucky and would not do such a thing even if we could. Home is important.


  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683
    edited December 2019

    A few things to take from this People of Colour/Talent episode.

    1) Twitter has destroyed journalism in this country and it is very close to destroying the very essence of truth. Journalists simply do not operate within editorial boundaries on Twitter. Channel 4 need severely reprimanding for their role in this affair as an example to all.

    2) A great many people got exposed as being part of the hive-mind of Twitter. In one respect this episode is a salutary lesson for them but will it be heeded? Doubtful.

    3) By accident, this episode reveals the dangers in the next few years of the deep fake videos. If you have the hive-mind of Twitter searching for a gotcha moment and you have someone else ready to supply it, then its clear we are about to enter a new era where truth is destroyed. I'm sure our enemies are rubbing their hands with glee.

    Absolutely correct. It was obvious from the outset that the original audio was corrupted and unclear. No definite conclusion could have been made about the utterance at that point - let alone assert that it was a vile racist dog whistle. C4 should have checked every available recording and asked Boris and other witnesses for their take. Only then, upon being absolutely certain, should they have made the claim they did. What a bunch of cowboys! We are poorly served.
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698
    Stocky said:

    alb1on said:

    Still waiting to hear where you can get that 5/1 against the Conservatives in Ynys Mon. I agree that would be decent odds, but still cannot find better than 2/1.

    You can`t get 5/1 now. I got 7/2 on Tories two weeks ago.
    Thanks. I will stick to the PC odds which look far more attractive. I do think the Tories could have taken Ynys Mon, but not after insulting the voters with Chris Davies.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    That's a stretch. Lower skilled people still have the necessary talent for specific things
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,128

    Andy_JS said:

    Channel 4 used to be required viewing in the 80s and early/mid 90s when it used to show cutting edge programmes with material that often couldn't be viewed anywhere else.

    I remember the "red triangle" late night films too!
    But then you could get cable or Sky and there were many German channels with strange people doing weird things. And then there was the Internet and it all went nonlinear. I was talking about this the other day: I can't remember the last time I switched the telly on. Poor Channel 4. Network 7, Brookside, Eurotrash, Ben Elton, Big Brother, this is Davina, please do not swear...then what? Does it still show the Simpsons? The last Channel 4'programme I remember watching was First Dates. Damn, reports from another age...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    Andy_JS said:

    The craziest tweet I've read in a long time:

    https://twitter.com/rob__waters/status/1202916889753731072

    Ready for denial is a great phrase, since it means any denial should be ignored. Marvellous.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    murali_s said:

    Chris said:

    melcf said:

    Define Irony:, Boris Ali Kemal Bey Johnson, Priti Patel, Sajid Javed and Chinless/ No named Father Gove are now the gatekeepers to this ancient and powerful land. To keep people of colour out.

    You posted this thinly veiled racism yesterday. Give it a rest.
    Jesus Christ!

    It's racism now, is it, to criticise racism on the part of the descendants of immigrants?

    How absurd can what passes for political discourse become?
    Don't bother - this place is full of right-wing bigots!
    Bigots of all kinds should be welcomed. Do we have centrist bigots?
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019

    HYUFD said:

    'Of course, Boris reaches white working class Labour voters who have not voted Tory since Thatcher if ever in a way no other Tory leader would, much as Trump reaches white working class Democrats who have not voted Republican since Reagan'

    My take on it is that WWC voters thing Boris is a fool. But he is a fool who will bring about Brexit. Which the bulk of the WWC (of which I am a part, by the way) think will ameliorate the impacts of deindustrialisation, chronic underinvestment in the north and austerity. They're probably going to be very disappointed.

    At least that won't leave them to fall prey to some fascist asswipe waving a Union Jack (or England flag)...

    What? Oh.
  • Mango said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Of course, Boris reaches white working class Labour voters who have not voted Tory since Thatcher if ever in a way no other Tory leader would, much as Trump reaches white working class Democrats who have not voted Republican since Reagan'

    My take on it is that WWC voters thing Boris is a fool. But he is a fool who will bring about Brexit. Which the bulk of the WWC (of which I am a part, by the way) think will ameliorate the impacts of deindustrialisation, chronic underinvestment in the north and austerity. They're probably going to be very disappointed.

    At least that won't leave them to fall prey to some fascist asswipe waving a Union Jack (or England flag)...

    What? Oh.
    Why are these flags "fascist"?
  • Chris said:

    Chris said:

    melcf said:

    Define Irony:, Boris Ali Kemal Bey Johnson, Priti Patel, Sajid Javed and Chinless/ No named Father Gove are now the gatekeepers to this ancient and powerful land. To keep people of colour out.

    You posted this thinly veiled racism yesterday. Give it a rest.
    Jesus Christ!

    It's racism now, is it, to criticise racism on the part of the descendants of immigrants?

    How absurd can what passes for political discourse become?
    If you dont think its racist that doesn't particularly surprise me
    I _do_ think it's racism on the part of the descendants of immigrants. That's the point of my comment. How could I have made it any clearer?
    So you think Boris's name is "Boris Ali Kemal Bey Johnson"
    Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.
  • BluerBlue said:

    If I were Boris, I would use the phrase "people of talent" ten times in the debate tonight, just for the bantz...

    "People of talent want to Get Brexit Done"
    “And unleash Britain’s potential”
    "Unlike the Doomsters and Gloomsters!"
  • kinabalu said:

    I think that a lot of those about to vote Labour have a deep seated moral discomfort over Corbyn that they are trying to repress. Projecting evil characteristics on Johnson resolves the dilemma allowing them to justify their horrible moral choice.

    Astute. And equally so if written the other way.
    But continual one liners slagging off JC as a racist and antisemite are perfectly acceptable as long as you are a sun loving pasty muncher. No they are not.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Reading the comments on ITV regarding John Major not supporting the Tories could be of some help in the marginals. Certainly the Tories are looking to distance themselves from the 80s and 90s incarnation in order to win round Labour voters. Major’s intervention somewhat detoxifies Boris and makes him a break from the past.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721

    nunu2 said:

    Channel 4 are making a good case to have their licence revoked after the election.

    This cycle of vengeance against Channel 4 is very old. Channel 4 news is really only what remains of an intellectually ambitious channel, having been commercialised to oblivion by the Tories for providing both cultural and political alternatives.
    Andy_JS said:

    It feels like there's a cult out there that wants to ban everything. They're like the puritans in the 17th century.
    You say it like it's a bad thing...

    It was 17th Century Puritanism that put the Great in Britain.
This discussion has been closed.