Define Irony:, Boris Ali Kemal Bey Johnson, Priti Patel, Sajid Javed and Chinless/ No named Father Gove are now the gatekeepers to this ancient and powerful land. To keep people of colour out.
They made a mistake. They have now made a public apology. What more do you want? Public floggings?
Yes. They were too quick to rush out their supposed "gotcha" that they didn't do the most basic of fact checking. It just took one to listen with eyes closed to hear what was really said. Not the most sophisticated of techniques.
For an idiot on twitter that would be par for the course; for a national broadcaster in the middle of a general election campaign it shows at the very least a massive error of judgement. More likely it demonstrates a lack of basic professionalism and due diligence in their editorial standards and processes.
They should be publicly flogged for that.
No, it's worse than that, it shows a deep institutional bias against Boris, the Tories, and Brexit, A bias so ingrained they made a weird and massive error, and were UNABLE to see this, until it was pointed out, forcibly.
That's the clincher. The madness has got so deep, the afflicted do not realise they are demented.
Worth pointing out that the BBC have made some deeply curious edits to TV news clips, which seem to favour Boris - so the bias is not entirely one way.
The only part of Sunday's Marr-crash that made ITN was Boris saying the 72 released terrorists would be put under further scrutiny. Ta!
Last night's Newsnight was practically a PPB for the tories. Then they wheeled Burgon on, as if to prove a point.
Define Irony:, Boris Ali Kemal Bey Johnson, Priti Patel, Sajid Javed and Chinless/ No named Father Gove are now the gatekeepers to this ancient and powerful land. To keep people of colour out.
Just trying to understand the voting percentages( from polls) and seats, with 2017 for comparison. Tories at 44-42% seem at the same level as 2017 but may get 20-40 addtional seats! Labour seem to be between 32-35% and will lose around 40 seats LB at 11-15% seem to be picking up 15-25 seats. Greens and Brexit(UKIP) seem static One thing is clear, Labour has lost votes and LD have gained them. Various scenarios 1) Tories have lost votes in London/ SE but regained them in the North( Leave labour)? If Tories were to hold South/ Remania and gain North, then their percentage should have reached 45-50! So definitely Tories have gained some, lost some. 2) Labour has lost 5% , but where and to whom? Directly to Cons in the North or to Brexit or to LD in the South? 3) Individual Constituency polls seem to come from Labour areas, such as Grimsby and Wrexham. Wonder why these two were selected?? With landline polling of a very small sample. Off course they say the same, Brexit, hate for Corbyn at the doorstep and labour wall is crumbling. I heard the same in 2017 and the wall remained intact and even grew stronger. 4) Polls in 2017 downplayed Labour votes by 5%. Sections such as ethnics, students and non land line users were ignored. Have they repeated the same error? At this time, in 2017 the talk was of a 400 seat landslide and Betfred 96% majority for Tories. I shall wait till the 13th, before I count me chickens
Have you studied the YouGov MRP? It's pretty interesting and convincing IMO.
They made a mistake. They have now made a public apology. What more do you want? Public floggings?
Yes. They were too quick to rush out their supposed "gotcha" that they didn't do the most basic of fact checking. It just took one to listen with eyes closed to hear what was really said. Not the most sophisticated of techniques.
For an idiot on twitter that would be par for the course; for a national broadcaster in the middle of a general election campaign it shows at the very least a massive error of judgement. More likely it demonstrates a lack of basic professionalism and due diligence in their editorial standards and processes.
They should be publicly flogged for that.
This could be catching. Perhaps we could bastinado Sajid Javid for straight-out lying about trends in homelessness. We could pull out Boris Johnson's scrotal hairs one by one for continuing to assert that there will no checks on goods going between Britain and Northern Ireland when his own government's documents confirm they will.
Okay, time to cling desperately to straws. My highly unsophisticated model, which:
*ignore if not interested* just multiplies the vote for a party in all seats by the ratio of current national poll/2017 result, and then assumes 30% tactical voting from Lab -> LD and vice versa, and 10% from Brexit -> Tory....
*resume reading* reckons the Tories need a 9pt lead for the majority. They could just miss it.
I understand we might see an increase in tactical voting etc but I simply refuse to believe that the Tories need a 9% lead for a majority.
In fact I suspect that tactical voting has been a bit overplayed this time around. A number of people will vote tactically, as they do at every election, but there will always be a sizeable chunk who will vote for the party they want to, in spite of what Gina Miller’s website or a bar chart might tell them.
9% does seem high to me too. It's very possible the model is just wrong. That said I don't think 30% tactical voting is crazy... at least in marginal constituencies where it might make the difference.
Much as one would like to think a forensic interview of a political leader (or a political leader's refusal to submit to one) would influence the electorate, I doubt it would.
I remember a forlorn hope that an interview of Thatcher by Robin Day in 1987 might have some effect, but it was just a delusion.
Define Irony:, Boris Ali Kemal Bey Johnson, Priti Patel, Sajid Javed and Chinless/ No named Father Gove are now the gatekeepers to this ancient and powerful land. To keep people of colour out.
You posted this thinly veiled racism yesterday. Give it a rest.
They made a mistake. They have now made a public apology. What more do you want? Public floggings?
Yes. They were too quick to rush out their supposed "gotcha" that they didn't do the most basic of fact checking. It just took one to listen with eyes closed to hear what was really said. Not the most sophisticated of techniques.
For an idiot on twitter that would be par for the course; for a national broadcaster in the middle of a general election campaign it shows at the very least a massive error of judgement. More likely it demonstrates a lack of basic professionalism and due diligence in their editorial standards and processes.
They should be publicly flogged for that.
No, it's worse than that, it shows a deep institutional bias against Boris, the Tories, and Brexit, A bias so ingrained they made a weird and massive error, and were UNABLE to see this, until it was pointed out, forcibly.
That's the clincher. The madness has got so deep, the afflicted do not realise they are demented.
Hmmmm..... It seems that Corbyn is not the only Messiah in this election.
They made a mistake. They have now made a public apology. What more do you want? Public floggings?
It would be a modest start.
And put the apology front of their news bulletin. Get Jon Snow to apologise personally.
Yeah, the news companies can start apologising after Boris Johnson apologises for his failed attempt to suspend democracy. I haven't noticed too many Conservatives getting worked up about the most serious assault on British democracy in all our lifetimes.
Oh good grief. You too have lost any perspective.
When Brexit is DONE I do hope that people like you and Southam can return to the insightful and articulate people you were, before you went fucking postal
On the one hand, you have a direct assault on the nation's democracy in an attempt by a Prime Minister with no majority seeking to push through a policy that no one had voted for that would have generational effect. On the other hand, you have a swiftly deleted tweet. And you regard the second as more important.
I think I can cope with you believing I have lost perspective.
You need to ask yourself why you are SO desperate to think the worst of Boris, and Brexit, that it is literally warping your senses.
This isn't the first time you've made an embarrassing error by leaping to a false conclusion that best supports your prejudices
Blinkered, prejudiced and ill mannered. Knows nothing about betting. A complete embarrassment
Ha, ha. Bless you. I do know next to nothing about betting, it is true. But so what? It has not really held me back.
But this is a site about betting and politics, you know nothing about the former and are blinkered, prejudiced and ill informed on the latter. Why’d you bother?
They made a mistake. They have now made a public apology. What more do you want? Public floggings?
Yes. They were too quick to rush out their supposed "gotcha" that they didn't do the most basic of fact checking. It just took one to listen with eyes closed to hear what was really said. Not the most sophisticated of techniques.
For an idiot on twitter that would be par for the course; for a national broadcaster in the middle of a general election campaign it shows at the very least a massive error of judgement. More likely it demonstrates a lack of basic professionalism and due diligence in their editorial standards and processes.
They should be publicly flogged for that.
Quite agree; it was indeed careless. Very careless. The duty editor should have known that even Boris wouldn't be that stupid.
You need to ask yourself why you are SO desperate to think the worst of Boris, and Brexit, that it is literally warping your senses.
This isn't the first time you've made an embarrassing error by leaping to a false conclusion that best supports your prejudices
Blinkered, prejudiced and ill mannered. Knows nothing about betting. A complete embarrassment
No, Southam is an OK guy. A mensch, of sorts. I have hopes he can be restored to lucidity, when his grief is abated, following the Boris landslide.
Thank-you - I do appreciate it. The trick is to separate the personal from the political. It's the not having control thing, I think. Watching the country slide into what you strongly believe is a preventable disaster because there is no-one capable of preventing it is very tough. I wish I were handling it better. It's not healthy. But on a personal level Johnson is undoubtedly going to be very good for me and my family. I imagine I will get used to that soon enough.
They made a mistake. They have now made a public apology. What more do you want? Public floggings?
Yes. They were too quick to rush out their supposed "gotcha" that they didn't do the most basic of fact checking. It just took one to listen with eyes closed to hear what was really said. Not the most sophisticated of techniques.
For an idiot on twitter that would be par for the course; for a national broadcaster in the middle of a general election campaign it shows at the very least a massive error of judgement. More likely it demonstrates a lack of basic professionalism and due diligence in their editorial standards and processes.
They should be publicly flogged for that.
This could be catching. Perhaps we could bastinado Sajid Javid for straight-out lying about trends in homelessness. We could pull out Boris Johnson's scrotal hairs one by one for continuing to assert that there will no checks on goods going between Britain and Northern Ireland when his own government's documents confirm they will.
There is a difference.
Politicians make claims and statements in an election. It is the job of broadcasters to assess, analyse and report the validity of those claims. It is for electors to judge the veracity of the claims and propositions before casting their ballot.
When C4 make a biased cluster*uck like this it undermines the confidence in any of their content. That is the difference.
If the Tories win big, they really do need to take on the Blob, and fuck it up.
Sell Channel 4. Let Rupert buy it. Privatise the BBC, especially the news. Sack every quangocrat with a leftwing opinion. Gut the universities, rip out the commie parasites in academe. Suppress the Supreme Court. Do it all.
Brexit needs to be a total revolution, not just a change in trade and tariffs.
A political purge of the media, universities and intellectuals? A cultural revolution with re-education camps? What could possibly be wrong with that?
No need for Putin to come here, we will have our own Britain Putin.
They made a mistake. They have now made a public apology. What more do you want? Public floggings?
It would be a modest start.
And put the apology front of their news bulletin. Get Jon Snow to apologise personally.
Yeah, the news companies can start apologising after Boris Johnson apologises for his failed attempt to suspend democracy. I haven't noticed too many Conservatives getting worked up about the most serious assault on British democracy in all our lifetimes.
And so standards deteriorate.
Is the answer really to stoop to Johnson's level? I honestly don't know. I like Michelle Obama's, "when they go low, we go high" line. But is that naïve when facing the likes of Boris/Trump?
Anyway, even though I want a HP to kill the Brexit calamity off for good, I just can't see it.
Tory majority of 25-75 seems very probable. Corbyn has been a disaster for Labour and the country. He has enabled the Brexit calamity to happen on his watch - he needs to pay a price for that!
Labour need a reasonably sane and sensible leader and even though he's as dull as dishwater it has to be Keir Starmer.
As for the future of this country post Dec 12th, it's bleak, very bleak.
They made a mistake. They have now made a public apology. What more do you want? Public floggings?
It would be a modest start.
And put the apology front of their news bulletin. Get Jon Snow to apologise personally.
Yeah, the news companies can start apologising after Boris Johnson apologises for his failed attempt to suspend democracy. I haven't noticed too many Conservatives getting worked up about the most serious assault on British democracy in all our lifetimes.
so whataboutery is a BAD thing - unless it suits you? If news organisations are to be part of rebuilding trust in politics then they need to report factually - this was a serious error from C4, especially at a time when politicians from left and right are claiming 'fake news' and bias at every turn - this legitimises their complaints and your style of whataboutism doesn't help matters.
Define Irony:, Boris Ali Kemal Bey Johnson, Priti Patel, Sajid Javed and Chinless/ No named Father Gove are now the gatekeepers to this ancient and powerful land. To keep people of colour out.
You posted this thinly veiled racism yesterday. Give it a rest.
Jesus Christ!
It's racism now, is it, to criticise racism on the part of the descendants of immigrants?
How absurd can what passes for political discourse become?
If the Tories win big, they really do need to take on the Blob, and fuck it up.
Sell Channel 4. Let Rupert buy it. Privatise the BBC, especially the news. Sack every quangocrat with a leftwing opinion. Gut the universities, rip out the commie parasites in academe. Suppress the Supreme Court. Do it all.
Brexit needs to be a total revolution, not just a change in trade and tariffs.
and those publicly funded lobbyists known as charities
Define Irony:, Boris Ali Kemal Bey Johnson, Priti Patel, Sajid Javed and Chinless/ No named Father Gove are now the gatekeepers to this ancient and powerful land. To keep people of colour out.
You posted this thinly veiled racism yesterday. Give it a rest.
Jesus Christ!
It's racism now, is it, to criticise racism on the part of the descendants of immigrants?
How absurd can what passes for political discourse become?
Don't bother - this place is full of right-wing bigots!
This could be catching. Perhaps we could bastinado Sajid Javid for straight-out lying about trends in homelessness. We could pull out Boris Johnson's scrotal hairs one by one for continuing to assert that there will no checks on goods going between Britain and Northern Ireland when his own government's documents confirm they will.
They made a mistake. They have now made a public apology. What more do you want? Public floggings?
It would be a modest start.
And put the apology front of their news bulletin. Get Jon Snow to apologise personally.
Yeah, the news companies can start apologising after Boris Johnson apologises for his failed attempt to suspend democracy. I haven't noticed too many Conservatives getting worked up about the most serious assault on British democracy in all our lifetimes.
Oh good grief. You too have lost any perspective.
When Brexit is DONE I do hope that people like you and Southam can return to the insightful and articulate people you were, before you went fucking postal
I'm a bit worried that I won't live long enough to see Brexit done!
Just trying to understand the voting percentages( from polls) and seats, with 2017 for comparison. Tories at 44-42% seem at the same level as 2017 but may get 20-40 addtional seats! Labour seem to be between 32-35% and will lose around 40 seats LB at 11-15% seem to be picking up 15-25 seats. Greens and Brexit(UKIP) seem static One thing is clear, Labour has lost votes and LD have gained them. Various scenarios 1) Tories have lost votes in London/ SE but regained them in the North( Leave labour)? If Tories were to hold South/ Remania and gain North, then their percentage should have reached 45-50! So definitely Tories have gained some, lost some. 2) Labour has lost 5% , but where and to whom? Directly to Cons in the North or to Brexit or to LD in the South? 3) Individual Constituency polls seem to come from Labour areas, such as Grimsby and Wrexham. Wonder why these two were selected?? With landline polling of a very small sample. Off course they say the same, Brexit, hate for Corbyn at the doorstep and labour wall is crumbling. I heard the same in 2017 and the wall remained intact and even grew stronger. 4) Polls in 2017 downplayed Labour votes by 5%. Sections such as ethnics, students and non land line users were ignored. Have they repeated the same error? At this time, in 2017 the talk was of a 400 seat landslide and Betfred 96% majority for Tories. I shall wait till the 13th, before I count me chickens
Have you studied the YouGov MRP? It's pretty interesting and convincing IMO.
You mean the You Guv, which was founded in May 2000 by Stephan Shakespeare and future MP Nadhim Zahawi, at the time both active in the British Conservative Party? Who also got the 2017 election wrong?
If the Tories win big, they really do need to take on the Blob, and fuck it up.
Sell Channel 4. Let Rupert buy it. Privatise the BBC, especially the news. Sack every quangocrat with a leftwing opinion. Gut the universities, rip out the commie parasites in academe. Suppress the Supreme Court. Do it all.
Brexit needs to be a total revolution, not just a change in trade and tariffs.
Just trying to understand the voting percentages( from polls) and seats, with 2017 for comparison. Tories at 44-42% seem at the same level as 2017 but may get 20-40 addtional seats! Labour seem to be between 32-35% and will lose around 40 seats LB at 11-15% seem to be picking up 15-25 seats. Greens and Brexit(UKIP) seem static One thing is clear, Labour has lost votes and LD have gained them. Various scenarios 1) Tories have lost votes in London/ SE but regained them in the North( Leave labour)? If Tories were to hold South/ Remania and gain North, then their percentage should have reached 45-50! So definitely Tories have gained some, lost some. 2) Labour has lost 5% , but where and to whom? Directly to Cons in the North or to Brexit or to LD in the South? 3) Individual Constituency polls seem to come from Labour areas, such as Grimsby and Wrexham. Wonder why these two were selected?? With landline polling of a very small sample. Off course they say the same, Brexit, hate for Corbyn at the doorstep and labour wall is crumbling. I heard the same in 2017 and the wall remained intact and even grew stronger. 4) Polls in 2017 downplayed Labour votes by 5%. Sections such as ethnics, students and non land line users were ignored. Have they repeated the same error? At this time, in 2017 the talk was of a 400 seat landslide and Betfred 96% majority for Tories. I shall wait till the 13th, before I count me chickens
Have you studied the YouGov MRP? It's pretty interesting and convincing IMO.
You mean the You Guv, which was founded in May 2000 by Stephan Shakespeare and future MP Nadhim Zahawi, at the time both active in the British Conservative Party? Who also got the 2017 election wrong?
You might want to quickly clarify what you mean by that
Define Irony:, Boris Ali Kemal Bey Johnson, Priti Patel, Sajid Javed and Chinless/ No named Father Gove are now the gatekeepers to this ancient and powerful land. To keep people of colour out.
You posted this thinly veiled racism yesterday. Give it a rest.
Jesus Christ!
It's racism now, is it, to criticise racism on the part of the descendants of immigrants?
How absurd can what passes for political discourse become?
If you dont think its racist that doesn't particularly surprise me
Just trying to understand the voting percentages( from polls) and seats, with 2017 for comparison. Tories at 44-42% seem at the same level as 2017 but may get 20-40 addtional seats! Labour seem to be between 32-35% and will lose around 40 seats LB at 11-15% seem to be picking up 15-25 seats. Greens and Brexit(UKIP) seem static One thing is clear, Labour has lost votes and LD have gained them. Various scenarios 1) Tories have lost votes in London/ SE but regained them in the North( Leave labour)? If Tories were to hold South/ Remania and gain North, then their percentage should have reached 45-50! So definitely Tories have gained some, lost some. 2) Labour has lost 5% , but where and to whom? Directly to Cons in the North or to Brexit or to LD in the South? 3) Individual Constituency polls seem to come from Labour areas, such as Grimsby and Wrexham. Wonder why these two were selected?? With landline polling of a very small sample. Off course they say the same, Brexit, hate for Corbyn at the doorstep and labour wall is crumbling. I heard the same in 2017 and the wall remained intact and even grew stronger. 4) Polls in 2017 downplayed Labour votes by 5%. Sections such as ethnics, students and non land line users were ignored. Have they repeated the same error? At this time, in 2017 the talk was of a 400 seat landslide and Betfred 96% majority for Tories. I shall wait till the 13th, before I count me chickens
Have you studied the YouGov MRP? It's pretty interesting and convincing IMO.
You mean the You Guv, which was founded in May 2000 by Stephan Shakespeare and future MP Nadhim Zahawi, at the time both active in the British Conservative Party? Who also got the 2017 election wrong?
And pretty much straight away got Labour supporting Peter Kellner on board, who was chairman until 2017.
Nobody think YouGov is bias. It is a business out to make money, which relies on being able to claim accurate polling abilities.
Anyway, even though I want a HP to kill the Brexit calamity off for good, I just can't see it.
Tory majority of 25-75 seems very probable. Corbyn has been a disaster for Labour and the country. He has enabled the Brexit calamity to happen on his watch - he needs to pay a price for that!
Labour need a reasonably sane and sensible leader and even though he's as dull as dishwater it has to be Keir Starmer.
As for the future of this country post Dec 12th, it's bleak, very bleak.
Sad sad times...
on the bright side perhaps Starmer will clear out the stables
They made a mistake. They have now made a public apology. What more do you want? Public floggings?
Yes. They were too quick to rush out their supposed "gotcha" that they didn't do the most basic of fact checking. It just took one to listen with eyes closed to hear what was really said. Not the most sophisticated of techniques.
For an idiot on twitter that would be par for the course; for a national broadcaster in the middle of a general election campaign it shows at the very least a massive error of judgement. More likely it demonstrates a lack of basic professionalism and due diligence in their editorial standards and processes.
They should be publicly flogged for that.
This could be catching. Perhaps we could bastinado Sajid Javid for straight-out lying about trends in homelessness. We could pull out Boris Johnson's scrotal hairs one by one for continuing to assert that there will no checks on goods going between Britain and Northern Ireland when his own government's documents confirm they will.
There is a difference.
Politicians make claims and statements in an election. It is the job of broadcasters to assess, analyse and report the validity of those claims. It is for electors to judge the veracity of the claims and propositions before casting their ballot.
When C4 make a biased cluster*uck like this it undermines the confidence in any of their content. That is the difference.
If you are being downright dishonest as a matter of practice, as the Conservatives currently are, then you have no moral standing to complain about the mistakes of others. Motes and beams.
Channel 4 used to be required viewing in the 80s and early/mid 90s when it used to show cutting edge programmes with material that often couldn't be viewed anywhere else.
I remember the "red triangle" late night films too!
They made a mistake. They have now made a public apology. What more do you want? Public floggings?
Yes. They were too quick to rush out their supposed "gotcha" that they didn't do the most basic of fact checking. It just took one to listen with eyes closed to hear what was really said. Not the most sophisticated of techniques.
For an idiot on twitter that would be par for the course; for a national broadcaster in the middle of a general election campaign it shows at the very least a massive error of judgement. More likely it demonstrates a lack of basic professionalism and due diligence in their editorial standards and processes.
They should be publicly flogged for that.
This could be catching. Perhaps we could bastinado Sajid Javid for straight-out lying about trends in homelessness. We could pull out Boris Johnson's scrotal hairs one by one for continuing to assert that there will no checks on goods going between Britain and Northern Ireland when his own government's documents confirm they will.
There is a difference.
Politicians make claims and statements in an election. It is the job of broadcasters to assess, analyse and report the validity of those claims. It is for electors to judge the veracity of the claims and propositions before casting their ballot.
When C4 make a biased cluster*uck like this it undermines the confidence in any of their content. That is the difference.
If you are being downright dishonest as a matter of practice, as the Conservatives currently are, then you have no moral standing to complain about the mistakes of others. Motes and beams.
Just trying to understand the voting percentages( from polls) and seats, with 2017 for comparison. Tories at 44-42% seem at the same level as 2017 but may get 20-40 addtional seats! Labour seem to be between 32-35% and will lose around 40 seats LB at 11-15% seem to be picking up 15-25 seats. Greens and Brexit(UKIP) seem static One thing is clear, Labour has lost votes and LD have gained them. Various scenarios 1) Tories have lost votes in London/ SE but regained them in the North( Leave labour)? If Tories were to hold South/ Remania and gain North, then their percentage should have reached 45-50! So definitely Tories have gained some, lost some. 2) Labour has lost 5% , but where and to whom? Directly to Cons in the North or to Brexit or to LD in the South? 3) Individual Constituency polls seem to come from Labour areas, such as Grimsby and Wrexham. Wonder why these two were selected?? With landline polling of a very small sample. Off course they say the same, Brexit, hate for Corbyn at the doorstep and labour wall is crumbling. I heard the same in 2017 and the wall remained intact and even grew stronger. 4) Polls in 2017 downplayed Labour votes by 5%. Sections such as ethnics, students and non land line users were ignored. Have they repeated the same error? At this time, in 2017 the talk was of a 400 seat landslide and Betfred 96% majority for Tories. I shall wait till the 13th, before I count me chickens
Have you studied the YouGov MRP? It's pretty interesting and convincing IMO.
You mean the You Guv, which was founded in May 2000 by Stephan Shakespeare and future MP Nadhim Zahawi, at the time both active in the British Conservative Party? Who also got the 2017 election wrong?
You guv in 2017 mentioned City of Chester as an easy Tory victory, when clearly the word from the ground was different. Most odds were 5/1 on Labour. Same manner, You Guv says Lincoln is a Tory lead. When the word on the ground is that Karen Lee Labour is leading and people cannot stand the pompous prik Tory candidate. So I doubt their way of polling.
Hmm, vox pops from the office - the line about Boris having to face up to Putin and not willing to face up to Brillo is hurting. The rest people don't care about it's "politics" but that line is hurting Bozza.
It’s utterly stupid and is going to seriously damage him.
As much damage as doing the interview might do?
Worse. Boris could prep and ride out the interview and no-one would care.
Sure, opposition activists would share a few clips of Boris squirming but it wouldn’t shift anything.
On the other hand being frit is something everyone understands and no-one respects.
I'm sceptical of wider impact but his excuse is pathetic and supporters have been honest about the real reasons. As you say an interview would not have been that damaging, what an unnecessary mess.
Channel 4 are making a good case to have their licence revoked after the election.
This cycle of vengeance against Channel 4 is very old. Channel 4 news is really only what remains of an intellectually ambitious channel, having been commercialised to oblivion by the Tories for providing both cultural and political alternatives.
Just trying to understand the voting percentages( from polls) and seats, with 2017 for comparison. Tories at 44-42% seem at the same level as 2017 but may get 20-40 addtional seats! Labour seem to be between 32-35% and will lose around 40 seats LB at 11-15% seem to be picking up 15-25 seats. Greens and Brexit(UKIP) seem static One thing is clear, Labour has lost votes and LD have gained them. Various scenarios 1) Tories have lost votes in London/ SE but regained them in the North( Leave labour)? If Tories were to hold South/ Remania and gain North, then their percentage should have reached 45-50! So definitely Tories have gained some, lost some. 2) Labour has lost 5% , but where and to whom? Directly to Cons in the North or to Brexit or to LD in the South? 3) Individual Constituency polls seem to come from Labour areas, such as Grimsby and Wrexham. Wonder why these two were selected?? With landline polling of a very small sample. Off course they say the same, Brexit, hate for Corbyn at the doorstep and labour wall is crumbling. I heard the same in 2017 and the wall remained intact and even grew stronger. 4) Polls in 2017 downplayed Labour votes by 5%. Sections such as ethnics, students and non land line users were ignored. Have they repeated the same error? At this time, in 2017 the talk was of a 400 seat landslide and Betfred 96% majority for Tories. I shall wait till the 13th, before I count me chickens
Have you studied the YouGov MRP? It's pretty interesting and convincing IMO.
You mean the You Guv, which was founded in May 2000 by Stephan Shakespeare and future MP Nadhim Zahawi, at the time both active in the British Conservative Party? Who also got the 2017 election wrong?
You need to ask yourself why you are SO desperate to think the worst of Boris, and Brexit, that it is literally warping your senses.
This isn't the first time you've made an embarrassing error by leaping to a false conclusion that best supports your prejudices
Blinkered, prejudiced and ill mannered. Knows nothing about betting. A complete embarrassment
Ha, ha. Bless you. I do know next to nothing about betting, it is true. But so what? It has not really held me back.
But this is a site about betting and politics, you know nothing about the former and are blinkered, prejudiced and ill informed on the latter. Why’d you bother?
Just trying to understand the voting percentages( from polls) and seats, with 2017 for comparison. Tories at 44-42% seem at the same level as 2017 but may get 20-40 addtional seats! Labour seem to be between 32-35% and will lose around 40 seats LB at 11-15% seem to be picking up 15-25 seats. Greens and Brexit(UKIP) seem static One thing is clear, Labour has lost votes and LD have gained them. Various scenarios 1) Tories have lost votes in London/ SE but regained them in the North( Leave labour)? If Tories were to hold South/ Remania and gain North, then their percentage should have reached 45-50! So definitely Tories have gained some, lost some. 2) Labour has lost 5% , but where and to whom? Directly to Cons in the North or to Brexit or to LD in the South? 3) Individual Constituency polls seem to come from Labour areas, such as Grimsby and Wrexham. Wonder why these two were selected?? With landline polling of a very small sample. Off course they say the same, Brexit, hate for Corbyn at the doorstep and labour wall is crumbling. I heard the same in 2017 and the wall remained intact and even grew stronger. 4) Polls in 2017 downplayed Labour votes by 5%. Sections such as ethnics, students and non land line users were ignored. Have they repeated the same error? At this time, in 2017 the talk was of a 400 seat landslide and Betfred 96% majority for Tories. I shall wait till the 13th, before I count me chickens
Have you studied the YouGov MRP? It's pretty interesting and convincing IMO.
You mean the You Guv, which was founded in May 2000 by Stephan Shakespeare and future MP Nadhim Zahawi, at the time both active in the British Conservative Party? Who also got the 2017 election wrong?
You guv in 2017 mentioned City of Chester as an easy Tory victory, when clearly the word from the ground was different. Most odds were 5/1 on Labour. Same manner, You Guv says Lincoln is a Tory lead. When the word on the ground is that Karen Lee Labour is leading and people cannot stand the pompous prik Tory candidate. So I doubt their way of polling.
They made a mistake. They have now made a public apology. What more do you want? Public floggings?
It would be a modest start.
And put the apology front of their news bulletin. Get Jon Snow to apologise personally.
Yeah, the news companies can start apologising after Boris Johnson apologises for his failed attempt to suspend democracy. I haven't noticed too many Conservatives getting worked up about the most serious assault on British democracy in all our lifetimes.
so whataboutery is a BAD thing - unless it suits you? If news organisations are to be part of rebuilding trust in politics then they need to report factually - this was a serious error from C4, especially at a time when politicians from left and right are claiming 'fake news' and bias at every turn - this legitimises their complaints and your style of whataboutism doesn't help matters.
Worry about the big stuff. Democracy in this country is under threat and it is under threat from the party currently hot favourites to get an overall majority. It has already suffered a direct assault by that party while it did not control Parliament. Give it more power and it will take more steps to dismantle the constitutional checks and balances. Things can only get worse.
You need to ask yourself why you are SO desperate to think the worst of Boris, and Brexit, that it is literally warping your senses.
This isn't the first time you've made an embarrassing error by leaping to a false conclusion that best supports your prejudices
Blinkered, prejudiced and ill mannered. Knows nothing about betting. A complete embarrassment
No, Southam is an OK guy. A mensch, of sorts. I have hopes he can be restored to lucidity, when his grief is abated, following the Boris landslide.
Thank-you - I do appreciate it. The trick is to separate the personal from the political. It's the not having control thing, I think. Watching the country slide into what you strongly believe is a preventable disaster because there is no-one capable of preventing it is very tough. I wish I were handling it better. It's not healthy. But on a personal level Johnson is undoubtedly going to be very good for me and my family. I imagine I will get used to that soon enough.
If we're going to be fraternal on PB (it makes a nice change) then I happily confess I am in the same boat, though I maybe realised my problem a bit earlier than you. A few months back I noticed I was making errors of judgement, that were born of my contempt for Corbyn and my dislike of Remainer elitism.
Since then I have striven to address my bias. But we are all a work in progress.
Incidentally, there are already signs that Brexit might not be as bad as you fear. For the first time in years, London property prices are perking up.
I reckon there is a lot of pent-up investment waiting to come to Britain (because we are still seen as stable, despite Brexit and Corbyn, because stability is RELATIVE - i.e. Brexit is a mess but it's better than Hong Kong's riots).
If and when Boris wins a decent majority, I expect the economy to pick up pace.
Channel 4 are making a good case to have their licence revoked after the election.
This cycle of vengeance against Channel 4 is very old. Channel 4 news is really only what remains of an intellectually ambitious channel.
+1
Their coverage of the war-crimes and genocide in Sri Lanka was truly astounding. They carried the torch while the rest of the mainstream media were playing silly buggers.
You need to ask yourself why you are SO desperate to think the worst of Boris, and Brexit, that it is literally warping your senses.
This isn't the first time you've made an embarrassing error by leaping to a false conclusion that best supports your prejudices
Blinkered, prejudiced and ill mannered. Knows nothing about betting. A complete embarrassment
No, Southam is an OK guy. A mensch, of sorts. I have hopes he can be restored to lucidity, when his grief is abated, following the Boris landslide.
Thank-you - I do appreciate it. The trick is to separate the personal from the political. It's the not having control thing, I think. Watching the country slide into what you strongly believe is a preventable disaster because there is no-one capable of preventing it is very tough. I wish I were handling it better. It's not healthy. But on a personal level Johnson is undoubtedly going to be very good for me and my family. I imagine I will get used to that soon enough.
I can feel your pain and others and really do understand it
So many have a deep affection for the EU and in divorce it is excrutiating and wrecks emotions
I only want brexit done because I believe it has to happen even though I voted remain
I do believe those who want to be in the EU need to form a campaign to rejoin and if leaving goes wrong, which it may or may not, rejoining may become a very popular option probably by the time of the next election
We have such a sad state of affairs with the media now.
Rushed, sloppy and irresponsible journalism, often tainted by bias and prejudice, sometimes accompanied by selective editing and misquoting (or at least careless error as appears to be the case here), lobbed into the twittersphere or on television to create an impact - any impact.
No ‘side’ or ‘tribe’ or ‘political persuasion’ can claim any kind of moral high ground here. It is becoming more and more pervasive across our politics and it is contributing to the increasingly angry, partisan nature of debate.
As with any revolution I fear that this one will eat itself and the free media, having pushed things too far, will prompt someone in power to push the button on suppression of free speech. It doesn’t take much for a media being slowly corrupted with inaccurate partisan reporting and “fake news” to flip into a government mouthpiece. After all, how far away from propaganda is ‘fake news’ really?
Channel 4 used to be required viewing in the 80s and early/mid 90s when it used to show cutting edge programmes with material that often couldn't be viewed anywhere else.
I remember the "red triangle" late night films too!
I remember them. I was only about 6 years old and still managed to watch some of them, lol.
I doubt You guv and most polls. They seem to amplify the Tory vote and minimise Labours. Any seat lead of less than 5% should be taken with a pinch of salt and be called a dead heat. Based on this, Tories may gain 15-20 seats from Labour but lose 5-10 to LD/SNP Looks like a final Tory tally of 320 + or - 15
They made a mistake. They have now made a public apology. What more do you want? Public floggings?
Yes. They were too quick to rush out their supposed "gotcha" that they didn't do the most basic of fact checking. It just took one to listen with eyes closed to hear what was really said. Not the most sophisticated of techniques.
For an idiot on twitter that would be par for the course; for a national broadcaster in the middle of a general election campaign it shows at the very least a massive error of judgement. More likely it demonstrates a lack of basic professionalism and due diligence in their editorial standards and processes.
They should be publicly flogged for that.
This could be catching. Perhaps we could bastinado Sajid Javid for straight-out lying about trends in homelessness. We could pull out Boris Johnson's scrotal hairs one by one for continuing to assert that there will no checks on goods going between Britain and Northern Ireland when his own government's documents confirm they will.
There is a difference.
Politicians make claims and statements in an election. It is the job of broadcasters to assess, analyse and report the validity of those claims. It is for electors to judge the veracity of the claims and propositions before casting their ballot.
When C4 make a biased cluster*uck like this it undermines the confidence in any of their content. That is the difference.
If you are being downright dishonest as a matter of practice, as the Conservatives currently are, then you have no moral standing to complain about the mistakes of others. Motes and beams.
You really have been driven bonkers by Brexit.
I've given two examples from the last two days of straight lies in the aid of the Conservative election campaign. If you're going to worry about alternative facts, you need to cut them off at source.
You need to ask yourself why you are SO desperate to think the worst of Boris, and Brexit, that it is literally warping your senses.
This isn't the first time you've made an embarrassing error by leaping to a false conclusion that best supports your prejudices
Blinkered, prejudiced and ill mannered. Knows nothing about betting. A complete embarrassment
No, Southam is an OK guy. A mensch, of sorts. I have hopes he can be restored to lucidity, when his grief is abated, following the Boris landslide.
Thank-you - I do appreciate it. The trick is to separate the personal from the political. It's the not having control thing, I think. Watching the country slide into what you strongly believe is a preventable disaster because there is no-one capable of preventing it is very tough. I wish I were handling it better. It's not healthy. But on a personal level Johnson is undoubtedly going to be very good for me and my family. I imagine I will get used to that soon enough.
I can feel your pain and others and really do understand it
So many have a deep affection for the EU and in divorce it is excrutiating and wrecks emotions
I only want brexit done because I believe it has to happen even though I voted remain
I do believe those who want to be in the EU need to form a campaign to rejoin and if leaving goes wrong, which it may or may not, rejoining may become a very popular option probably by the time of the next election
I do not really have a deep affection for the EU. I have a deep affection for the UK. It's clear, though, that my views about what are best for the UK are minority ones. My task is to learn to deal with that better.
You need to ask yourself why you are SO desperate to think the worst of Boris, and Brexit, that it is literally warping your senses.
This isn't the first time you've made an embarrassing error by leaping to a false conclusion that best supports your prejudices
Blinkered, prejudiced and ill mannered. Knows nothing about betting. A complete embarrassment
No, Southam is an OK guy. A mensch, of sorts. I have hopes he can be restored to lucidity, when his grief is abated, following the Boris landslide.
Thank-you - I do appreciate it. The trick is to separate the personal from the political. It's the not having control thing, I think. Watching the country slide into what you strongly believe is a preventable disaster because there is no-one capable of preventing it is very tough. I wish I were handling it better. It's not healthy. But on a personal level Johnson is undoubtedly going to be very good for me and my family. I imagine I will get used to that soon enough.
I can feel your pain and others and really do understand it
So many have a deep affection for the EU and in divorce it is excrutiating and wrecks emotions
I only want brexit done because I believe it has to happen even though I voted remain
I do believe those who want to be in the EU need to form a campaign to rejoin and if leaving goes wrong, which it may or may not, rejoining may become a very popular option probably by the time of the next election
Define Irony:, Boris Ali Kemal Bey Johnson, Priti Patel, Sajid Javed and Chinless/ No named Father Gove are now the gatekeepers to this ancient and powerful land. To keep people of colour out.
This is clearly a cock up by Channel 4 rather than any conspiracy. People on both sides seem to be losing their minds. Anyway it shifts the narrative from Brillogate so is probably a net +ve to the Tories on the breathless reporting we now have on the election.
I doubt You guv and most polls. They seem to amplify the Tory vote and minimise Labours. Any seat lead of less than 5% should be taken with a pinch of salt and be called a dead heat. Based on this, Tories may gain 15-20 seats from Labour but lose 5-10 to LD/SNP Looks like a final Tory tally of 320 + or - 15
Just had the Tories knock my Stockton South door for the first time ever. Bless them. Both students from Surrey. Had no idea where they were. Does show how much £££ the Tory machine has though
The fact that so many Corbynistas are still insisting Johnson said colour could potentially prove a real problem for them if they carry on like this.
It is quite scary how much the cult are like Team Trump supporters. It doesn't matter what the facts are, they have their own alternative facts.
And as I pointed out last night, this isn't just random 18 year olds, people like Michael Rosen, a supposed highly intelligent man (and yes I know he has already been very left wing so not surprising he is a fan of Corbyn)...his twitter feed is littered with the fake news shit.
Channel 4 are making a good case to have their licence revoked after the election.
This cycle of vengeance against Channel 4 is very old. Channel 4 news is really only what remains of an intellectually ambitious channel.
+1
Their coverage of the war-crimes and genocide in Sri Lanka was truly astounding. They carried the torch while the rest of the mainstream media were playing silly buggers.
Channel 4 News does some really good stuff, which is why it is such a shame they are so clearly biased against Boris, the Tories and Brexit. The bias demeans them, devalues their journalism, and will in the end see Channel 4 News dismantled.
It would be nice to think there are clever people in C4 who can see the bigger picture. And then take steps to remedy it.
All the polls are rather uncannily coming into line with the topline MRP figures of Con 43%, Lab 32%.
Tories seem firm on 43. Anti-tory vote seems a movable feast. So can Jeremy pull off his 2017 late swing trick again or not?
I think yes, but hes further back now. 41-36 I think.
By this stage of the 2017 campaign labour had exceeded 35% in 8 polls. They would exceed it in a further 6 over the coming weekend. The swing had already begun and actually seemed to peak over this coming weekend equivalent
I think that a lot of those about to vote Labour have a deep seated moral discomfort over Corbyn that they are trying to repress. Projecting evil characteristics on Johnson resolves the dilemma allowing them to justify their horrible moral choice.
"Boris Johnson has now resorted to dog whistles to reach out to voters who may be willing instead support the Brexit Party or stay at home in an unprecedented move."
Comments
That's the clincher. The madness has got so deep, the afflicted do not realise they are demented.
Have to had a hearing test recently?
That said I don't think 30% tactical voting is crazy... at least in marginal constituencies where it might make the difference.
I remember a forlorn hope that an interview of Thatcher by Robin Day in 1987 might have some effect, but it was just a delusion.
I think I can cope with you believing I have lost perspective.
https://twitter.com/mattzarb/status/1202917019055796225
I’ll take a wild guess that Boris has just come up with a new way of generating a couple of billion quid in asset sales next year.
Politicians make claims and statements in an election. It is the job of broadcasters to assess, analyse and report the validity of those claims. It is for electors to judge the veracity of the claims and propositions before casting their ballot.
When C4 make a biased cluster*uck like this it undermines the confidence in any of their content. That is the difference.
(i) CH4.
(ii) Those who defended the BJ comments before the correction was known.
Think about it.
No need for Putin to come here, we will have our own Britain Putin.
Is the answer really to stoop to Johnson's level? I honestly don't know. I like Michelle Obama's, "when they go low, we go high" line. But is that naïve when facing the likes of Boris/Trump?
Tory majority of 25-75 seems very probable. Corbyn has been a disaster for Labour and the country. He has enabled the Brexit calamity to happen on his watch - he needs to pay a price for that!
Labour need a reasonably sane and sensible leader and even though he's as dull as dishwater it has to be Keir Starmer.
As for the future of this country post Dec 12th, it's bleak, very bleak.
Sad sad times...
It's racism now, is it, to criticise racism on the part of the descendants of immigrants?
How absurd can what passes for political discourse become?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=or8UhztOSH4
Who also got the 2017 election wrong?
Nobody think YouGov is bias. It is a business out to make money, which relies on being able to claim accurate polling abilities.
God the astroturfers at GE time are useless.
They might not be as solidly pro Labour as people think. "I'm with Boris now".
https://mobile.twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1202884890644996096
Same manner, You Guv says Lincoln is a Tory lead. When the word on the ground is that Karen Lee Labour is leading and people cannot stand the pompous prik Tory candidate. So I doubt their way of polling.
And meanwhile you worry about a tweet.
Since then I have striven to address my bias. But we are all a work in progress.
Incidentally, there are already signs that Brexit might not be as bad as you fear. For the first time in years, London property prices are perking up.
https://www.ft.com/content/f85e6602-f005-11e9-a55a-30afa498db1b
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/london-house-prices-show-the-first-signs-of-recovery-2ffvb8blm
I reckon there is a lot of pent-up investment waiting to come to Britain (because we are still seen as stable, despite Brexit and Corbyn, because stability is RELATIVE - i.e. Brexit is a mess but it's better than Hong Kong's riots).
If and when Boris wins a decent majority, I expect the economy to pick up pace.
https://twitter.com/MrNishKumar/status/1202909621482065921
Their coverage of the war-crimes and genocide in Sri Lanka was truly astounding. They carried the torch while the rest of the mainstream media were playing silly buggers.
So many have a deep affection for the EU and in divorce it is excrutiating and wrecks emotions
I only want brexit done because I believe it has to happen even though I voted remain
I do believe those who want to be in the EU need to form a campaign to rejoin and if leaving goes wrong, which it may or may not, rejoining may become a very popular option probably by the time of the next election
Rushed, sloppy and irresponsible journalism, often tainted by bias and prejudice, sometimes accompanied by selective editing and misquoting (or at least careless error as appears to be the case here), lobbed into the twittersphere or on television to create an impact - any impact.
No ‘side’ or ‘tribe’ or ‘political persuasion’ can claim any kind of moral high ground here. It is becoming more and more pervasive across our politics and it is contributing to the increasingly angry, partisan nature of debate.
As with any revolution I fear that this one will eat itself and the free media, having pushed things too far, will prompt someone in power to push the button on suppression of free speech. It doesn’t take much for a media being slowly corrupted with inaccurate partisan reporting and “fake news” to flip into a government mouthpiece. After all, how far away from propaganda is ‘fake news’ really?
https://twitter.com/mattzarb/status/1202917019055796225
Based on this, Tories may gain 15-20 seats from Labour but lose 5-10 to LD/SNP
Looks like a final Tory tally of 320 + or - 15
https://twitter.com/guardiannews/status/1202928548832587776
https://twitter.com/guardiannews/status/1202928548832587776
And as I pointed out last night, this isn't just random 18 year olds, people like Michael Rosen, a supposed highly intelligent man (and yes I know he has already been very left wing so not surprising he is a fan of Corbyn)...his twitter feed is littered with the fake news shit.
It would be nice to think there are clever people in C4 who can see the bigger picture. And then take steps to remedy it.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q0e4Ni9ob0