Morning Kinabalu. I could have done with you late last night. I was making a stout defence of our Laura, but I was sadly alone. People think Labour's best chance for 2024 lies somewhere in your manor - well more round Islington and Camden.
Morning morning. She has to retain that seat first but if she does I think it's chocks away. Another leader from North London is the last thing we need IMO. Let's go for a vibrant young working class woman from the north. What a contrast with who the other lot are saddled with!
What he says is that Brexit will allow us to have democratic control over the immigration of people of colour. Not of EU citizens, but people of colour. A fascinating insight into the fact Johnson knows what the real issue around immigration is.
But Brexit will not make any difference except, perhaps, to cut down the immigration of white Europeans. India indicated a while back that any post-Brexit deals with them would require the relaxation of immigration controls. I cannot see that pleasing Leaverstan...
Yes, of course. He is lying. But that is what he does.
Wondering where will be the best place to scrape the results data live on the night? Now I have all the historic data, thinking of making a live automatic updated version so we can see as fast as possible the Tories really are making the progress they need or no.
You're taking over all my traditional jobs on election night, lol.
If people want to make suggestions / colab, I am open to it.
What he says is that Brexit will allow us to have democratic control over the immigration of people of colour. Not of EU citizens, but people of colour. A fascinating insight into the fact Johnson knows what the real issue around immigration is.
But Brexit will not make any difference except, perhaps, to cut down the immigration of white Europeans. India indicated a while back that any post-Brexit deals with them would require the relaxation of immigration controls. I cannot see that pleasing Leaverstan...
Yes, of course. He is lying. But that is what he does.
Quite likely he doesn’t say ‘people of colour’ there
Yes, he does.
I don’t think so.
Be careful, you have jumped to incorrect conclusions before on things like this that you are prejudiced on, the Sun blacking up Gina Miller for instance, and you admit you see everything Boris does through the prism of thinking the worst
He literally says "people of colour".
Cant see the issue personally, BoJo was talking to Justin Trudeau earlier this week quite happily and he's a sometime person of colour.
People Of Colour (or POC) is actually the currently correct and woke term in US politics and thus in internet-speak and amongst youngsters globally!
Boris is in fact being of-the-moment PC here.
He is just telling another lie about immigration. The term he uses is neither here nor there.
I wonder if Tories here would allow Corbyn to get out of racism by using the clumsy language defence. Don’t really need to ask, we know the answer
Was Johnson’s answer racist? Welcoming immigration but in a controlled manner seems sensible
Referring to people of colour specifically is dog whistle racism yes. Imagine if Corbyn has said the same about Jews.
No, it isn't: the current PC term is "People of Colour". AOC and the Justice Democrats in the US are contractually-obliged to use the phrase several times a day.
Quite likely he doesn’t say ‘people of colour’ there
I think it's an accepted term now, at least I've heard white liberals use "person of colour" fairly regularly.
I would never use it because it's ridiculous to refer to people as a colour.
Neither would I - it`s cringeworthy.
It's even more *cringe* than that. In America the term has been widely extended, so you can have "actors of color", "builders of color", "chemists of color", "painters of color". "pirates of color", and "dentists of color". And "lesbians of color".
He doesn't want a good trade deal - he wants his name on the list of people who are prime minster.
And to do that and stay there he needs to leave the EU and sign up for whatever deal he can get that allows us to have a trade deal by 31st December 2020.
Oh and because it's a crap trade deal he will be able to blame the EU for the years he is in power.
Probably right but I hold the minority opinion that he will end up extending the Transition and doing a closely aligned trade deal with the EU. A 'soft brexit'. Just for the simple reason that anything else is plain dumb.
Quite likely he doesn’t say ‘people of colour’ there
Yes, he does.
I don’t think so.
Be careful, you have jumped to incorrect conclusions before on things like this that you are prejudiced on, the Sun blacking up Gina Miller for instance, and you admit you see everything Boris does through the prism of thinking the worst
He literally says "people of colour".
Cant see the issue personally, BoJo was talking to Justin Trudeau earlier this week quite happily and he's a sometime person of colour.
People Of Colour (or POC) is actually the currently correct and woke term in US politics and thus in internet-speak and amongst youngsters globally!
Boris is in fact being of-the-moment PC here.
He is just telling another lie about immigration. The term he uses is neither here nor there.
Deja vu all over again. Look before you leap J-Dubz
I wonder if Tories here would allow Corbyn to get out of racism by using the clumsy language defence. Don’t really need to ask, we know the answer
Was Johnson’s answer racist? Welcoming immigration but in a controlled manner seems sensible
Referring to people of colour specifically is dog whistle racism yes. Imagine if Corbyn has said the same about Jews.
No, it isn't: the current PC term is "People of Colour". AOC and the Justice Democrats in the US are contractually-obliged to use the phrase several times a day.
AOC is also contracted to slip into an accent of color to subtract credence from her arguments and make her look ridiculous
Quite likely he doesn’t say ‘people of colour’ there
I think it's an accepted term now, at least I've heard white liberals use "person of colour" fairly regularly.
I would never use it because it's ridiculous to refer to people as a colour.
Neither would I - it`s cringeworthy.
It's even more *cringe* than that. In America the term has been widely extended, so you can have "actors of color", "builders of color", "chemists of color", "painters of color". "pirates of color", and "dentists of color". And "lesbians of color".
There probably really is albinos of colour. (I used to see quite a few albinos on Bioko Island in Equatorial Guinea - might have been an island genetics thing.)
He garbled it slightly, but that is clearly what he said - he was going through the standard riff, and that's exactly the standard line. The sentence would make no sense otherwise.
Quite likely he doesn’t say ‘people of colour’ there
Apparantly, the word police say it`s ok to say "people of colour" but one mustn`t say "coloured people".
Go figure.
Why can`t we just see individuals as individuals?
What he says is that Brexit will allow us to have democratic control over the immigration of people of colour. Not of EU citizens, but people of colour. A fascinating insight into the fact Johnson knows what the real issue around immigration is.
And a dog whistle
I imagine that in focus groups many of the big issues that come up around immigration are to do with people of colour - from the sub-Continent, Somalis, Romanies, sub-Saharan Africans, etc. It's not done to acknowledge this openly, so we talk more generally about controlling our borders. This is an instance in which Johnson has flicked through his briefing papers and only picked up half the message. But, again, it will not harm him because it merely reflects what his electorate thinks.
They used to be Labours electorate. You were perfectly fine with them then
Quite likely he doesn’t say ‘people of colour’ there
I think it's an accepted term now, at least I've heard white liberals use "person of colour" fairly regularly.
I would never use it because it's ridiculous to refer to people as a colour.
Neither would I - it`s cringeworthy.
It's even more *cringe* than that. In America the term has been widely extended, so you can have "actors of color", "builders of color", "chemists of color", "painters of color". "pirates of color", and "dentists of color". And "lesbians of color".
BRX down from 3% to 2% overall could be significant because of its implications for the Conservatives chances of gaining seats, although the apparent difference of 1% could be a smaller change disguised by rounding. It amounts to a fall on average from 7% down to 4.6% in the 273 GB seats they are contesting, including all the key Labour marginals, implying that more of the Conservatives' national average of 44% is coming from those seats than hitherto. Even 2.49% would imply an average BXP share in contested seats of only 5.8%, although that would still be higher in Leave voting contested seats, to counter lower shares in other Remain voting seats.
He doesn't want a good trade deal - he wants his name on the list of people who are prime minster.
And to do that and stay there he needs to leave the EU and sign up for whatever deal he can get that allows us to have a trade deal by 31st December 2020.
Oh and because it's a crap trade deal he will be able to blame the EU for the years he is in power.
Probably right but I hold the minority opinion that he will end up extending the Transition and doing a closely aligned trade deal with the EU. A 'soft brexit'. Just for the simple reason that anything else is plain dumb.
One could argue that, once Brexit is 'done' (ie irrevocable), it might be in the interests of the SNP to support such a soft deal. Independence must be easier to argue for with an oven-ready soft border at Coldstream.
Boris should sue the fuck out of Channel 4, and all the idiots on here who persuaded themselves he said something they so very very much WANTED him to say
Channel 4 delete the video their slur havung been exposed. Wankers.
Litigation on its way. Boris clearly says talent. Listen to the recording it is nothing like colour
I think many on here need to be very careful in their comments on this
Indeed. Relistening to it, it does sound like "talent". Having the subtitles with "people of colour" does not help. It primes you to hear what you have read.
Quite likely he doesn’t say ‘people of colour’ there
Yes, he does.
I don’t think so.
Be careful, you have jumped to incorrect conclusions before on things like this that you are prejudiced on, the Sun blacking up Gina Miller for instance, and you admit you see everything Boris does through the prism of thinking the worst
He literally says "people of colour".
Cant see the issue personally, BoJo was talking to Justin Trudeau earlier this week quite happily and he's a sometime person of colour.
People Of Colour (or POC) is actually the currently correct and woke term in US politics and thus in internet-speak and amongst youngsters globally!
Boris is in fact being of-the-moment PC here.
He is just telling another lie about immigration. The term he uses is neither here nor there.
Deja vu all over again. Look before you leap J-Dubz
Neither you nor I heard talent. But, yes, I need to be a lot more careful.
Quite likely he doesn’t say ‘people of colour’ there
He does, and it's very strange that he connects that to Brexit.
Not strange at all - one of the few pluses about Brexit is that it evens up the flow of immigration by removing the current advantages, via FOM, to largely white Europeans and any new system would potentially treat all immigrants the same.
The flow of immigration is already skewed in favour of non-EU immigrants.
What? There is FOM for Asian/African countries for example?
If I was the Tories, I would blow this CH4 thing up as big as possible. Arrange a Press Conference ASAP, etc. It plays the narrative of Tories tough on immigration and media bias (even if both are bollocks).
Quite likely he doesn’t say ‘people of colour’ there
He does, and it's very strange that he connects that to Brexit.
Not strange at all - one of the few pluses about Brexit is that it evens up the flow of immigration by removing the current advantages, via FOM, to largely white Europeans and any new system would potentially treat all immigrants the same.
The flow of immigration is already skewed in favour of non-EU immigrants.
What? There is FOM for Asian/African countries for example?
No, EU immigration has fallen dramatically. Non-EU immigraiton is rising.
Quite likely he doesn’t say ‘people of colour’ there
Apparantly, the word police say it`s ok to say "people of colour" but one mustn`t say "coloured people".
Go figure.
Why can`t we just see individuals as individuals?
What he says is that Brexit will allow us to have democratic control over the immigration of people of colour. Not of EU citizens, but people of colour. A fascinating insight into the fact Johnson knows what the real issue around immigration is.
And a dog whistle
I imagine that in focus groups many of the big issues that come up around immigration are to do with people of colour - from the sub-Continent, Somalis, Romanies, sub-Saharan Africans, etc. It's not done to acknowledge this openly, so we talk more generally about controlling our borders. This is an instance in which Johnson has flicked through his briefing papers and only picked up half the message. But, again, it will not harm him because it merely reflects what his electorate thinks.
Isn’t sloppiness so awful?! Accuracy is everything
If I was the Tories, I would blow this CH4 thing up as big as possible. Arrange a Press Conference ASAP, etc. It plays the narrative of Tories tough on immigration and media bias (even if both are bollocks).
Yes, they should sue. Channel 4 are clearly as biased and demented as the Boris-haters on here.
'Of course, Boris reaches white working class Labour voters who have not voted Tory since Thatcher if ever in a way no other Tory leader would, much as Trump reaches white working class Democrats who have not voted Republican since Reagan'
My take on it is that WWC voters thing Boris is a fool. But he is a fool who will bring about Brexit. Which the bulk of the WWC (of which I am a part, by the way) think will ameliorate the impacts of deindustrialisation, chronic underinvestment in the north and austerity. They're probably going to be very disappointed.
Look at it another way. Brexit has given WWC voters in the north a chance and an excuse to vote for the winning electoral side for the first time since Blair. Maybe since Thatcher or Wilson.
If they win as expected, the new ruling Tory party will be changed: much more slanted to the north, and to the WWC.
So the north can seriously expect a better deal under Boris, as those new MPs clamour for their causes.
The WWC are therefore voting logically, and in their own self interest.
Yes, that could happen. I'll believe it when I see it.
Okay, time to cling desperately to straws. My highly unsophisticated model, which:
*ignore if not interested* just multiplies the vote for a party in all seats by the ratio of current national poll/2017 result, and then assumes 30% tactical voting from Lab -> LD and vice versa, and 10% from Brexit -> Tory....
*resume reading* reckons the Tories need a 9pt lead for the majority. They could just miss it.
I understand we might see an increase in tactical voting etc but I simply refuse to believe that the Tories need a 9% lead for a majority.
In fact I suspect that tactical voting has been a bit overplayed this time around. A number of people will vote tactically, as they do at every election, but there will always be a sizeable chunk who will vote for the party they want to, in spite of what Gina Miller’s website or a bar chart might tell them.
It seems to me that a lot of this is based on pollsters questions such as “will you vote in a way as to stop x from winning?” I am not really sure someone saying “yes” to that has necessarily weighed up the situation in their particular constituency.
In fact I suspect a lower turnout would actually hurt the Tories, as the more politically engaged (and therefore more likely to turn out) are also more likely to vote tactically to stop them.
So people are now, clearly editing the clip to make him say 'of colour' too.
what a f-ing mess.
The thing is...do the people doing this think it will hurt him? It is the correct "woke" term to use, so not racist and erhhh well the demographic the Tories are targeting are some what concerned about immigration.
Yeahhh this will f##k him right up....using the right on term to explain how the Tories will control immigration.
'Of course, Boris reaches white working class Labour voters who have not voted Tory since Thatcher if ever in a way no other Tory leader would, much as Trump reaches white working class Democrats who have not voted Republican since Reagan'
My take on it is that WWC voters thing Boris is a fool. But he is a fool who will bring about Brexit. Which the bulk of the WWC (of which I am a part, by the way) think will ameliorate the impacts of deindustrialisation, chronic underinvestment in the north and austerity. They're probably going to be very disappointed.
Look at it another way. Brexit has given WWC voters in the north a chance and an excuse to vote for the winning electoral side for the first time since Blair. Maybe since Thatcher or Wilson.
If they win as expected, the new ruling Tory party will be changed: much more slanted to the north, and to the WWC.
So the north can seriously expect a better deal under Boris, as those new MPs clamour for their causes.
The WWC are therefore voting logically, and in their own self interest.
Yes, that could happen. I'll believe it when I see it.
It's very difficult to see how it could happen. The big money behind Boris is hedge funds, not unions.
For posh Tories and even significant sections of the working class, being racist, specially towards Muslims, is actually a vote catcher. That's a fact. The shit Sun newpapers sells soley, because day in and day out it rants against foreigners, gypsies,Muslims and 'people of Color. So racism is not always a negative, look at Trump
Quite likely he doesn’t say ‘people of colour’ there
Yes, he does.
I don’t think so.
Be careful, you have jumped to incorrect conclusions before on things like this that you are prejudiced on, the Sun blacking up Gina Miller for instance, and you admit you see everything Boris does through the prism of thinking the worst
He literally says "people of colour".
Cant see the issue personally, BoJo was talking to Justin Trudeau earlier this week quite happily and he's a sometime person of colour.
People Of Colour (or POC) is actually the currently correct and woke term in US politics and thus in internet-speak and amongst youngsters globally!
Boris is in fact being of-the-moment PC here.
He is just telling another lie about immigration. The term he uses is neither here nor there.
Deja vu all over again. Look before you leap J-Dubz
Neither you nor I heard talent. But, yes, I need to be a lot more careful.
The Channel 4 clip is excellent at proving how our ears can play tricks when given conflicting info . When I originally saw it I thought it was people of colour but listening on LBC without the subtitles and on the radio you can hear talent .
Boris acts like a clown but deep inside he is a shrewd, ruthless and manipulative politician. In reality he has taken the country for a ride and fools the masses. In 2005, while aiming to be Mayor of London, he was pro Eu and even wanted Turkey to join in! In 2016, while aiming to be PM, he became an eurosceptic and plays to the audience with phrases such as letter boxes etc. The country has gone down hill, but Boris has managed to become it's PM. It will be a pyrrhic vicory at the end.
Is there much more of the LibDem vote amenable to a squeeze? How much will never vote for the anti-semites? That seems to be about the only question left to ask in this election.
FWIW I think this might be close to the final outcome. The Libdem slide is going to keep some more SE Tories in the House; the Labour rise will keep their vote slidedown to only semi-disastrous.
Vote slidedown? The LDs got 7.4% in 2017. Even 13% is approaching double that.
Yes, they have drifted in the polls, since the summer anyway, but where are BXP? Still well ahead of this time last year. It’s been terrible expectation management.
The Channel 4 clip is excellent at proving how our ears can play tricks when given conflicting info . When I originally saw it I thought it was people of colour but listening on LBC without the subtitles and on the radio you can hear talent .
Yes. For anyone still in doubt, I recommend listening to it rather than watching it.
If you do, it is 100% obvious it is "talent" not "colour", indeed the possibility it is "colour" never even suggests itself.
Comments
Which number will end up higher, the number of views on that video, or the number of Labour votes cast in this election?
ElectoralCalculus: Con maj 48.
Colourgate over before it begun. It would have been such a strange thing to have said (colour).
https://dentistry.vcu.edu/alumni/support/the-first-100-dentists-of-color/
Kidding, I'm kidding!
Anger and bias is turning sane, clever people like Southam into obsessive thickos, who hear what they want to hear. Truly strange.
I think many on here need to be very careful in their comments on this
OOOOOOPPPPS
And trick the automatic subtitles, too. Truly impressive work.
Sums up the quality of modern politics. And modern political journalism.
Boris Johnson says “people of talent” not “people of colour.”
Our earlier tweet was a mistake. We misheard and we apologise.
This is ideal for neutralising Neil-gate
They are going to get some visitors to their officers in early January....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvAhRcUofDk
what a f-ing mess.
In fact I suspect that tactical voting has been a bit overplayed this time around. A number of people will vote tactically, as they do at every election, but there will always be a sizeable chunk who will vote for the party they want to, in spite of what Gina Miller’s website or a bar chart might tell them.
It seems to me that a lot of this is based on pollsters questions such as “will you vote in a way as to stop x from winning?” I am not really sure someone saying “yes” to that has necessarily weighed up the situation in their particular constituency.
In fact I suspect a lower turnout would actually hurt the Tories, as the more politically engaged (and therefore more likely to turn out) are also more likely to vote tactically to stop them.
Yeahhh this will f##k him right up....using the right on term to explain how the Tories will control immigration.
Edit: Sorry - he kinda did.
https://twitter.com/SpaJw/status/1202915568271134720
Days after claiming it had been dealt with
That reflects very badly on him.
Sorry seems to be the hardest word.
In 2005, while aiming to be Mayor of London, he was pro Eu and even wanted Turkey to join in!
In 2016, while aiming to be PM, he became an eurosceptic and plays to the audience with phrases such as letter boxes etc.
The country has gone down hill, but Boris has managed to become it's PM. It will be a pyrrhic vicory at the end.
This isn't the first time you've made an embarrassing error by leaping to a false conclusion that best supports your prejudices
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7762229/BBC-News-Ten-host-Huw-Edwards-criticised-liking-Tweets-urged-people-vote-Labour.html
Yes, they have drifted in the polls, since the summer anyway, but where are BXP? Still well ahead of this time last year. It’s been terrible expectation management.
What a cock up
What's wrong with this?
If you do, it is 100% obvious it is "talent" not "colour", indeed the possibility it is "colour" never even suggests itself.